View Full Version : Rework Tradeskills somewhat
well I was thinking from the macro thread about poking and how it could be improved. One Idea I had in there was how when you poke someone instead of it starting the implant going it would bring up a Payment type screen basically like the trade screen but it would only show one box and the customers money amount. In the trade box it would show the imp that they currently have in their processor so you as a poker can examine TL and set your price for the poke prior to actually poking. Once the poker agrees on a price, which can still be 0nc for free, the poker clicks okay and the poke begins. Would poking become more tedious? Well to those who just liked to just poke everyone in the room for free, yes. Would it make poking more a tradeskill. Well it would improve it I think because currently unlike other tradeskills you just click on the user and have no clue what imp goes in. Shouldn't you know this? You are implanting this imp in. Like constructing and researching, or repairing you put the items in your tradescreen to pass back and then they have to enter in the amount for it, But with poking you just can't currently do that. Personally I'd enjoy a minigame for poking but I think this would be the simplest thing to implement currently and could have some good points in it.
We need to make tradeskills a lil more interesting I think. Minigames will help alot I think. Another idea I've seen before would be to make reseaching actually effect the number of slots. So the better a person researchers a BP it sorta gives a certain percentage of slots. how about also if a researcher can sorta botch up the BP. The parts listing can be the same but when a constructor builds the weapon it might turn into something else. Maybe a lower end weapon or a higher end one like the researcher got a brainstorm. Or maybe a totally different new weapon that's the same tl but works different. Like several different versions of the weapon models are made with slightly differnt effects. Like certain guns that look different and maybe shoot faster but have slightly less power so it all evens out but just looks differnt and reacts differently. A gatlin rifle with great handling but hardly any range.
Make a complex recycling menu. Give the ability to create differnt types of food from actual food items maybe. Which in turn can make different sorts of snacks or what not that can have special effects without any drug flashes depending on the skill used. It sorta varies on skill and items. So you have a chance to fail and create a version of your food or whatever and when that person takes it insteadof giving +15 health without any effect it poisons you or drops your health or something. heh. But create a big huge list of different items that can be created (I dont' actually mean list what ingrediants are needed for certain things) so that people can just keep at it trying to figure out what all can be created from items.
Right now there is no real creation. you can only basically reproduce what's already there. Well as in wepaons you can make it better but that's just . . .
Lastly Barter. Well personally I think it shoudln't insta drop your price. I think when you go to buy something at the bottom of the sell/buy list there should be a barter button also. You pick what you want and then click this button and then depending on your skill you go through a set of haggling choices. you can only go so far depending on your skill and if you try to push the price too much you might end up just buying it for the regular price or even paying more than what it was worth. So you actually have to THINK through a bartering call instead of just having more poitns reduces price automatically.
Anyhow anyone else have some different ideas? comments on these? Sorry I'm sorta sick today and it's about 7am in the morning >_< Sorry if it's all long and unorganzied :(
this would make it worth beeing a tradeskiller,a set of non combat based missions that leads to a tool/implant.
you could contact crytons store manager for the missons and rewards,even keep the minimum rank system to do the epic missions,maybe tweaked as pure trade skill rank are lower i think than combat rank players.
this is just a quick post so it needs more thought before it could be finalized
I would love to see a recipe list of things you have recycled as well as keeping track of failed attempts! In future attempts when you wanted to make something you made prior you would just click on the items name in your recipe list, and if you have the proper ingrediants it would take them from your inventory and make it.
Right now its very tedious to make chems etc specially if you need alot of them!
But love your poke idea pricing..would be nice if you could also set a discount in place if the player has a good rep with you or your clan/faction.
hmm, how long do we ask for a real tradeskiller patch ?
highlevel items to research and construct that are everyday needed.
hightechammo is on nooblevel to recycle - why is radioactive ammo not TL85 and must be constructed because there are only BP sold in the caction office? same with all other ammos that are NOT STANDART.
when will all the chems needed and when will all the chems have recycle recipes?
why do you need only have skill of repair? why is the tool bug on repair not fixed.
and is the implant tool bug fixed? i cant remember.
ill lost allmost all hope that DoY bring a real change on tradeskillers...
when you poke someone instead of it starting the implant going it would bring up a Payment type screen basically like the trade screen but it would only show one box and the customers money amount. In the trade box it would show the imp that they currently have in their processor so you as a poker can examine TL and set your price for the poke prior to actually poking.
I would absolutely love to see something like this. Its always a bit of annoyance not knowing wether I just implanted a basic headbone or an MC5. I'm not big on the mini-game idea, but a basic trade window would be great. Maybe in addition to showing the implant and money entry field it could have a button for which slot to use the poke tool from (so you could switch between tools depending on the job).
Make a complex recycling menu. Give the ability to create differnt types of food from actual food items maybe.(
I think there are about 10 foods you can recycle up from organic monster matter already... Hardly sufficient (especially considering the ridiculous level of stuff required to make them) but the concept is there.
I like what your saying amfest.
Unfortunately the Brainport is full of similar Ideas firstly on how to make tradeskills more interesting and secondly on how to improve alleged tradeskills... IE ones that are click and go and require no effort.
These Ideas have been coming and going since I started in Beta 4. KK seem to have no plans of changing anything in the tradeskill departments. HOPEFULLY they will surface in the BDOY upgrade.
Personally I'm looking for a construction sub-game that allows you to at least have the chance at a decent slottage with every build. Obviously Determined by T/L of conster and T/L of weapon :)
Yea i know whatyou mean ]v[ortice (http://forum.neocron.com/member.php?u=7703). I've seen so many ideas come and go. But just like with all things I Believe the community just needs to push for them. Right now since tradeskills are somewhat lacking in certain regards there isn't a big following for them. So alot of the posts you'll see here are the typical rants, bugs, pk disputes, class balance on combat, spam. Alot of people/clans have tradeskilling mules and don't seem to care about more depth to the skills cause in the end that would require more work. You couldn't just sit there and hit START, and as boring as that is it's so damn simple. I could most likely get a 2 or 3 year old to do tradeskilling for me :p Here honey put this pretty green colored marshmallow in this box next to this black bug now click this button to start the game. OOOOO look at that bar move. Look look it's almost done!! Wow look a Starship appears in this box. It's called key of apc. Here you can do the other 50 there and have fun! (I dont' know what the actual BP color is)
Anyhow I think the Implant idea isn't asking for too much. I think it would be very easy to implement and would help out alot on the poking front. BUT if KK decided to do this they have to keep in mind that diabled trade also affects the poke tool so we don't have people running around in Op wars or PK zones poking people to bring up the Poke screen. You know it would happen cause people are just like that. ;)
READ, COMMENT, RATE plz
P.S. Maybe I should of made individual threads for each skill idea cause right now it's all just thrown together. What can I say it was late :( vbmenu_register("postmenu_1324589", true); vbmenu_register("postmenu_1324589", true);
OT, but..
P.S. Maybe I should of made individual threads for each skill idea cause right now it's all just thrown together. What can I say it was late :( vbmenu_register("postmenu_1324589", true); vbmenu_register("postmenu_1324589", true);wtf? O_o am I the only one seeing this?
Seems like vBulletin 3.0 still has a few kinks to get ironed out. :p
Great ideas.... all of them. However again this will probably be a while in the making. Each of them adds to the realism of the game.
5 stars
For poking I was just thinking something simple like this at least
http://users3.ev1.net/~amfest/pokecom.jpg
Plz don't laugh at my paint skillz >_< It's just an idea Although I think I should of cut off the last two bottom boxes but I'm lazy and since I dont' really have any paint skills I was getting aggrevated :P
For poking I was just thinking something simple like this at least
http://users3.ev1.net/~amfest/pokecom.jpg
..
unless u have a 'bouncy' window its not really macro save but it helps gettin a good tip :)
btw- just use an TL90 tool for pokin (if they changed pokin every TL with standart tools) and you dont poke MC5 without notice ...
unless u have a 'bouncy' window its not really macro save but it helps gettin a good tip :)
btw- just use an TL90 tool for pokin (if they changed pokin every TL with standart tools) and you dont poke MC5 without notice ...
True but it just gets you more involved also with your customers like other tradeskills. for one you get to see what you are poking in at the time. For another you can set up payment. So if I say it costs so many cr per TL then I can check the actual TLof the item .. they then input price into cash box and once i'm satisfied I click start and the implantation begins. Like I guess it could still be macro'd but I just want more for tradeskills and this one seems the easiest of the ideas I've posted. I dont' think it would be too much to ask. You should be able to see what implants you ARE poking in :)
I was trying not to be negative and I am glad people are still trying to come up with Ideas to improve the gaming experience for all.
How about this for construction:
PACMAN ;) !
Why not... every power pill you collect gets you a slot on your weapon... but you still have to avoid the nastys or u get no slots :) Lots of varying pac-maps depending on T/L and ability of your constructor. It at least eliminates the randomness of the slottage.
Add that in with another sub-game for researchers that adds/takes away powerpills when they play their little game.
Both games could have special bonuses that can bump up the percentages in dmage or freq or handling etc. That only appear from time to time :) It would be really nice gettin your name on your weapon then... it would be like a new high score hehehehe.
Tell me what u think!
well that sorta of mini game might be a tad much. I mean have you ever gotten lag while doing the hack interface? damn that really sucks now imagine getting lag while you're trying to build a high TL weapon or rare :eek:
That would just plain suck. What could work is one of those simple games you know where they have some sorta of peg board behind glass and they drop a disc from the top and it bounces its way to the bottom to land in certain slots or hit a big zero. Well that could be done just have it move back and forth from the top of the screen and even have bottom options switching around randomly. So you just click when y ou want it to drop and watch as it bounces down . . heh. Maybe that's a lil too random ;)
For poking I was just thinking something simple like this at least
http://users3.ev1.net/~amfest/pokecom.jpg
Plz don't laugh at my paint skillz >_< It's just an idea Although I think I should of cut off the last two bottom boxes but I'm lazy and since I dont' really have any paint skills I was getting aggrevated :P
IM IN DA PICTURE :D WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..
I think itīs a good idea..
(no not because im in the picture :p)
tbh. minigames suck :p
i can understand what the hackgame have to do with hacking but building a weapon playing pacman???? :)
As for the recycle thing and recipes I'd like to have something similar to how cooking skill was in Star Ocean 2nd story. You try different amounts of ingrediants and have a chance of creating several different types of things. It would sorta work like researching in general on how you bust cubes (make something horrible) fail (something so so but not for the items you created) and something really good for each catagory you have different types of things that can appear. Like I might throw in some fruits, cheese, energy mix, psi chem and have a chance of creating a Med PSI booster which gives some psi energy back and some health back at the same time. Or you can fail and create something that poisons. Things along these lines. Of course yea being able to recycle all or most chems woudl be good.
As for salavaging how about we make some mobs drop broken junk/weapon items. And you get a high lvl salavager to actually salvage a piece of that weapon or item. So it's like techs but sorta working backwards and it's up to the salavager to actually SALAVAGE a piece of that weapon. Also maybe then you have to take it to a repairer who then has to be able to REPAIR the piece to a workable condition if he fails it's useless . .. if he suceeds then you just collect the rest of the parts and take all the workable pieces ot a constructor to put together. So unidentifeds for researchers and broken weapons items for salavagers and repairers (we could leave repairers out of this but I just don't like the idea of wrecked pieces going to a constructor and him actually being able to fix them to fit together again. If he can do that then why have a repairer? ;)
I think you guys took my pacman idea too literal. It was simply there to represent a small objective based, time limited and random mini-game with a focus on eliminating tedium and releasing some control status over factors such as slottage and build quality to the common constructor.
Of course the game wouldn't be fucking pacman itself. I just tried to simplify what I had initially visualised.
I never had a problem with lag either since it hardly ever happens to me... like once a month maybe? Dunno where u guys play from and what connection etc, but mine has been fine.
I'd like to ask though... if you were designing new features for a game... would you stop and say to yourself...
"Oh best not put that in... might lag out in the middle of it!"
You could lag out in PvP at any time... get your arse kicked... does that mean KK should not have put it in??? Or even as you say... the node game whist hacking... should they have put that in??? Didn't budget for lag did they lol
I do like your implant idea that is cool... only drawback I can see is if 10 people need two or three pokes they're gonna be mighty pissed having to barter over t/ls and waiting in line trying to open up that window over and over if your the only poker logged on at the time. After a big OP fight would be a nightmare.
I'm starting to wonder if changing tradeskills... or complicating them will discourage people from having tradeskills cause they don't want to fuck around and be arsed with it.
I love my tradeskills though and I do feel they need a revamp. If they do get changed then I would like to see the reactions from the community especially the impact on the timescales involved in the transactions.
Well I figured you didn't mean exactly pacman but if it was a game similar to pacman I think it would be a lil much. It should be simple and a game like pacman requires a bit going on the screen at one time. But as to what style of games should be for research or construction I have no clue at all :\ Well no clue as to what should fit.
As for the haggling over TL thing. It was just an example. I"m sure people will do tips or have a certain price for just imping low tls, mid tls, high tls, and then mc5 :p
I didn't really see anyone comment on the barter part. maybe it's not clear enough.
What I had in mind exactly is next to the buy button there would be a barter button or icon. When you click this button it takes you into a npc chat interface. In this interface you choose among 3 -5 random choices of starting a conversation with the vendor. Could be anything from asking about the vendor's family, life, job, current deals or competitors, politics and such. Then a random reply or story will pop up and depending on your barter skill gives you a certain amount of choices to reply back to the vendor. If you are friendly enough (higher barter skill) you get enough GOOD choice answers that you can choose though some will be on border line and vary depending on the mood of the vendor. If you push too far for a conversation you might aggrivate the vendor and not get a good buy or if you out right piss him off then you might get the price raised for yourself :eek:
But the sell/buy screen would be need to changed for this cause I think you should be able to select multiple objects and how many you want at once and then see the pricing for them all and buy that in one swoop so you won't have to go to chat interface for barter every time you want to buy a different item.
I tradeskill. I like the way tradeskills are now. I don't have to create a non-combat character in order to do tradeskills and also participate in PvM. I support the economy by injecting rareparts and Level 3/4 implants from mobs.
Neocron is combat-oriented. I'm not in favor of a system which punishes players who don't gimp for tradeskills. I'm also not in favor of rewarding people who gimp their characters to do tradeskills. The current system balances both quite well, I believe.
Tradeskills are a means to an end. They aren't an end in and of themselves in Neocron, no matter what a few people may want them to be.
I tradeskill. I like the way tradeskills are now. I don't have to create a non-combat character in order to do tradeskills and also participate in PvM. I support the economy by injecting rareparts and Level 3/4 implants from mobs.
Neocron is combat-oriented. I'm not in favor of a system which punishes players who don't gimp for tradeskills. I'm also not in favor of rewarding people who gimp their characters to do tradeskills. The current system balances both quite well, I believe.
Tradeskills are a means to an end. They aren't an end in and of themselves in Neocron, no matter what a few people may want them to be.
umm who's talking about gimp. We're talking about making tradeskills more involving or fun. I'm in favor in making all parts of neocron "FUN" regardelss of what you do with your daily life in neocron it is still a mmoRPG. People use gimp too much these days if you don't contribute all your points into combat you are thereby gimp. You have to surive onyour own or you are gimped. blah blah blah. We play with people for a purpose and i'm more in favor of making people HAVE to work together.
Anyhow this was more about giving more into tradeskills themselves .. sure in the end it will do the same .. but would you rather ride a bike to work or would you rather drive a nice vehicle with a good sound system in it? Majority of people will choose the latter I think. sure it accomplishs the same thing but there is a big differenece. That's all i'm suggesting.
Once again most ideas wont' change the points you currently have right now in tradeskills .. but it would make them more interactive. I for one don't want to contiune riding a bicycle.
For barter, it should be a game of rock paper scisors, with the higher barter skill giveing you better prediction on what the npc will pick. :) I also think that there should be some random 'game' that occurs when poking, like in Wario ware where for 5 seconds you play some rediculus game that has nothing to do with anything. :D
umm who's talking about gimp. We're talking about making tradeskills more involving or fun.
You are:
So the better a person researchers a BP it sorta gives a certain percentage of slots.
You may have meant that in context of previous threads, but that's not entirely clear.
I don't want to see an increase in skill requirement to cap construction, I don't want to see skill impact slot chances beyond the qualiy cap influence it has now, and I don't want to see BP quality/rsch level affect how a BP constructs an item.
Making tradeskilling more fun with minigames... can you imagine having to do 120 minigames while building a set of weapons for slots? No thanks...
I never said to raise the cap on construction nor raising researching skill. As always it'll be the same except researchers will "ADD" some more % chance of slots.
I would ask you to make some suggestions on how you think it could work but you seem to like the current system. To me mini games or some sort of work more than just putting tool in one and item in other and pushing start would be more involving and satisfying. And when you pass over your items to tradeskillers you know they are actually putting some effort into their job. I'm willing to settle just for some slight changes like researching effect slot% . . . a lil RPG NPC action for barter, a Poke screen, although I'd like some real looking into for recycling "the real recycling portion" and salavaging to looked into. besides everything can be adjusting I'm just throwing ideas out there and when i wrote the first post I was tired .. ready for bed and sick. So everything is really unorgainzed.
For barter, it should be a game of rock paper scisors, with the higher barter skill giveing you better prediction on what the npc will pick. :) I also think that there should be some random 'game' that occurs when poking, like in Wario ware where for 5 seconds you play some rediculus game that has nothing to do with anything. :D
rock paper scissors seems wayyyy too random for something like barter. I'll stick with my suggestion for a more NPC chatting system. You are in fact trying to smooth over for a better price. Chatting with your vendor and being friendly and showing your charisma is a good way to get a price lowered. Or pointing out that something is not as needed these days so it shoudl be lowered in price.
Lastly Barter. Well personally I think it shoudln't insta drop your price. I think when you go to buy something at the bottom of the sell/buy list there should be a barter button also. You pick what you want and then click this button and then depending on your skill you go through a set of haggling choices. you can only go so far depending on your skill and if you try to push the price too much you might end up just buying it for the regular price or even paying more than what it was worth. So you actually have to THINK through a bartering call instead of just having more poitns reduces price automatically.
:(
Neopets has an interesting barter system ahh games with neo... basically the shopkeeps have an irritation level depending on what you offer. you can kinda tell from thier responces if they are getting mad. if you bid to high they accept really fast. if you bid accepibly low they offer a counter offer
if you bit to low they offer a counter offer and sound irritated. when to irritated they say take it or leave it if you do not take it your kicked out of the shop for like 30 min.
a similer system could be used based on barter& sympathy with trader union(or faction sponcering shop). a failed barter could result in trader union(or facton owning the shop) going down. this would make enemys of chran not get as good prices at yakarmas, considering the new shops in DOY it could be cool. a good trade may result in more exp. where compromizing to high would result in no special gains. it would make barter more fun and require rl skill.
I like mini game ideas to.
That's not a bad idea at all also. Though i stil prefer a NPc chat way but I wouldn't mind that sorta system either.
Q`alooaith
10-04-04, 12:48
Great ideas..
Though on the weapon's BP's somtimes mucking up, I'd say have higher stat's in one area and much lower in the others, then you tag an extra name to desribe what's diffrent about it..
Somthing like Fast for higher Freq, Heavy for double weight, slow for cut RoF, light for half weight and so on.... Then each time a researcher muck's up they could cause one good effect and two bad effect's, so you might maked it fast but also heavy and skewed sight's, or some such... Also give's me some more ideas..
Yes that could be good for extending certain caps on weapons. Like a weapon gets their dmg cap extended a certain amount but the freq goes down or it breaks faster. A faster rate of fire but the handling is horrid or the dmg is lower. could make for some interesting combinations though. And I wish armor was like this though from mob drops or being built also. You know where energy protection might be more on it but the force is alot lower. or you might put on an armor that has lower pierce protection but it has an extra stat of protecting against posion.
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