View Full Version : Conflicting Avatars
(I hope this doesn't get closed off as keep it in game, as it is more of an observation on MMORPGs then direct comments at players in game)
Something I never tried before but it is intresting in relation to some roleplayers.
As you know Julia is actively (and makes no bones about it) attacking Angels. I moved her to Crahn Sect so as to make things fair (Angels could fight back without SL Loss). I also imposed rules on her engagement of combat so as to not be a complete azz to runners (although I would be attacking *all* angels).
Those rules were.
- I die or flee to an area I can't be followed to then its game over in that general area for at least a day (example Tech Haven if I run for my apts while under attack).
- No attacking in hunt zones unless attacked first.
- No killing the person again unless trash talked from or they engage in combat.
- My belt is left as a prize if I die while Angel hunting (although she has had a number of chances to recover)
- Don't use intel gained from Archeus. Other parties is fine.
- No attacking in TH SEC1 (until it is totally safe to do so without being reported)
Now my other Character Archeus is an Angel. Since the last PPU nerf I lommed him over to pure CST (totally gimped). Apart from CST, helping new players and driving he does little else. Not even capable of being a proper PPU now.
Now what is intresting in all this is how people are reacting.
- A number of Crahn sect treat Julia as an outcast (fine by me).
- Some of the Angels have done revenge attacks on Archeus.
- Archeus has been told to "piss off from the faction" or "Stop spying".
- Archeus no longer has reference to current intel (which is understandable, I said I wouldn't be hassled by this in THN)
- I have had numerous times had trash talking from so called "Role Players" on both avatars. One of them thinking I was my brother on Julia got pretty offensive and saying that I should be more like Archeus. :roll:
- Been reported for exploiting when I wasn't.
- Gloating DM's to me about how they got my belt. When I explain I leave them when I die I get "Ooh your just saying that because I owned you". I lost some nice items, but I treat that as my "bet" that I am better then the other runners.
In fairness now a lot of Angels are playing this as it should be played. I had a great time in TH this evening despite being seriouly out numbered. Some angels offered my belts back but I try to make things balanced.
What is intresting to me is the total change of character in some people. They claim they roleplay yet treat both avatars as the same and thier attitude is extremly offensive in some cases once they realise who the two avatars belong to. Doesn't bother me, I just mute them and get on with it but inability to see two seperate characters is somewhat intresting.
I could see this sort of thing happening if it was a 4 character server or a character was a mule but not as seperate characters.
I'm just wondering if anyone else actually *Plays* two seperate avatars as they should be played (not mules), have seen the same thing? (dont name runners, just your own).
yup that's how it goes. You've heard of it. You've seen it. Where one runner kills one and then say how they have a capped alt and are going to kill them now. Even if that capped character is the same faction and the pk'er was a hostile faction to their character that just got killed. It's things like this that people just treat it as the same character. There are alot of people who do this. Or someone can't kill a certain character so they start asking people - "Do you know who So and So's alts are?" In which case they try and bring grief to those alts because they can't do so to their main character or what not. I try a laid back roleplay. I'm not really involed in faction polictics but when I make trades and such I tend to do them in unpopulated areas in dark places or such. Especially if I'm trading with a hostile faction ;) . I have friends across uranus server . some are enemys of others. Some of my characters are hostile to some of my friends. As I see it when I'm on those characters my friends are hostile and so we might engage in a fight to death. But on my other friendly characters we're mates. I dont' really see that as a problem. I think it's fun. Just some people don't have the capacity to play that way. They only see the player behind the screen and not the actual avatar and it's particular repuation.
Yeah, the alt situation in neocron is horrible, people just cant understand the
concept of roleplaying. I got tired of trying so nowadays I keep all my alts in
the same faction/clan and make sure that everyone knows that its the same
person so that they cant mess it up in their little heads. Every time Ive tried
any sort of RP in neocron Ive just ended up depressed :(
PS. I didnt know you were julia. Im such an idiot. And Im so fucking
judgemental.
Zu (Pluto)
04-04-04, 02:07
This is a problem. But it's a problem of our (the community's) making. It's very well saying that the two Avatar's are different characters, but in practise all too often they are just two incarnations of the same character/persona.
Personally, I think it's just best to ignore the person behind the avatar and treat each avatar as unique. Now this is probably easier for me since I can never remember the names behind people anyway, in spite of the number of times people tell me "btw. I'm xyz". It's nice to "know" the person behind an avatar but I feel it's just best to keep every character apart.
I get most confused when two people decide to swap characters for a day but still consider themselves their "proper" character.
I started on Uranus orginally and alts just put me off so much I moved onto Pluto after a few weeks, which I have been on since. It is better on Pluto even though people have more than 1 account. But I don't think this kind of thing can be helped. Either some people will play ball with you when/if you explain you are RPing, or they won't.
Zu
PS. I mistook Simon for you at one point in the past and he got most offended! :)
Well zu I tried to play it like that but after a while it doesnt work. You kill
someone, and then suddenly 10 people from a clan you are allied to show up,
when you approach em and say hello you get torn to bits and rezzkilled and
sexed and whatnot and theyre on about how YOU SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL
WHO YOU KILL NIB!!!!!111oneone *sigh*
Heh
I try my best to keep my characters IC...however, though my only revealed relation link is that Kenjuten and Kalima are siblings, I might have more relations hidden in my characters...some might be negative of course. :)
Of course, they're all currently unclanned, so so far I haven't had much of a problem.
PS. I didnt know you were julia. Im such an idiot. And Im so fucking judgemental.
When Julia was a droner that would of been my brother playing. He has since moved to other games (think SWG). But that has been some months ago.
When Julia was a droner that would of been my brother playing. He has since moved to other games (think SWG). But that has been some months ago.
That would be jaggeh? Anyway, its the last few months I was talking about,
like when I was going to TH and getting pokes etc. That was you rite?
Zu (Pluto)
04-04-04, 12:55
Well zu I tried to play it like that but after a while it doesnt work. You kill
someone, and then suddenly 10 people from a clan you are allied to show up,
when you approach em and say hello you get torn to bits and rezzkilled and
sexed and whatnot and theyre on about how YOU SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL
WHO YOU KILL NIB!!!!!111oneone *sigh*
I know what you mean Rade. I see this all the time. What I said was how I feel things should work, but as you point out in practise all you need is a handful of people to not accept that to make a mess of it. It's a shame that these two ways of playing are so mutually exclusive and can't coincide with each other.
I think it is because a certain sector of the population just takes things waaay too personally and therefore are unable to actually roleplay a character. They are always "playing themselves". It's not "your character just killed mine", it's "YOU just killed ME". Actually, I know a couple of people RL who are a bit like that in table-top RPGs and they are very difficult to deal with as a GM (can we say grudges between games? :().
Zu
I think it is because a certain sector of the population just takes things waaay too personally and therefore are unable to actually roleplay a character. They are always "playing themselves". It's not "your character just killed mine", it's "YOU just killed ME". Actually, I know a couple of people RL who are a bit like that in table-top RPGs and they are very difficult to deal with as a GM (can we say grudges between games? :().
Zu
Yeah I know what you mean, my solution to that is simple: dont play with
those guys, they havent even understood the fundamentals of roleplaying. I
mean all roleplayers have their perks, the guy who always want to be weird,
the guy who talks endlessly about nothing, the guy whos characters all seem
a bit similar, the guy who.. you get the point. But those things you can live
with as long as they actually get in character. The guy who cant get in
character can go home because hes not there to roleplay, hes there to roll a
dice. Probably the best sessions Ive ever had was with freeform systems not
using rules or dices at all, then people stop caring on that part of the game
and focus on whats important.
I know what you mean Rade. I see this all the time. What I said was how I feel things should work, but as you point out in practise all you need is a handful of people to not accept that to make a mess of it. It's a shame that these two ways of playing are so mutually exclusive and can't coincide with each other.
I think it is because a certain sector of the population just takes things waaay too personally and therefore are unable to actually roleplay a character. They are always "playing themselves". It's not "your character just killed mine", it's "YOU just killed ME". Actually, I know a couple of people RL who are a bit like that in table-top RPGs and they are very difficult to deal with as a GM (can we say grudges between games? :().
Zu
Just to comment on this one:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp12032003.shtml
Just to comment on this one:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp12032003.shtml
nice comic :p
Anyways..
at topic :
Itīs easier to make people act differently to characters, if they do not know the alts..
I donīt have that problem, as my personality is reflected into all of my characters.
I would love to go FULL Role Play on my characters..
make people love and hate each character for their separate personalities.
but its hard.
I have a shitty memory about certain things.
It will be hard for me, (and anyone else I think) to keep track of the life story of 4 chars.
not to mention, everything you say in role play, you have to remember, so you can keep the same personality, and life story at all times.
the only way to avoid the revenge killing of one char to another, is to make sure noone(or a trusted few) know the 2 chars are connected, then they can be played as separate people.
other wise you are gonna get the revenge killing side of it, your looking at if from a roleplayer point of view, not everyone views it as that.
i attacked a biotech(and killed)runner in PP otherday, some fellow crahites went to res him saying to me "hes TG leavehim" etc etc, i knew full well who he was and who his alts were, but thats irrelavant, right there right then he was red to me, so i attacked him.
if he had been on his TG chars i would of left him(though i wonder if he will leave me now) but as the story shows others treated the player as the same person regardless of faction.
With the release of BDOY your runners are going to be allied or at least nuetral to eachother which stops your particular conflict of interests however I would really like to see people forced to take sides upon the release of BDOY, on four char servers all your runners have to be either pro or anti city. Faction chat at present is very prone to spying by enemies with alts and I dont think should be the the case.
Original monk
05-04-04, 15:21
in response to # 1
when an hostile faction kills my char, is an ass, has a to big ego ...
and he logs in with a non-hostile char ... then the RP doesnt matter anymore ...
cause he is trying to avoid dead by changing faction ...
no way he is gonna avoid dead LOL -----> KEEL
i myself have a factionless apu to kill peeps ... stupid colours lol, ya know who everyone is anyway ... and if ya dont like someone: ya dont like he's FAchar, TTchar, drechar or i dunno what all ... its still the same person so ..
not like roleplay ever existed, on the saturn server that is ...
With the release of BDOY your runners are going to be allied or at least nuetral to eachother which stops your particular conflict of interests however I would really like to see people forced to take sides upon the release of BDOY, on four char servers all your runners have to be either pro or anti city. Faction chat at present is very prone to spying by enemies with alts and I dont think should be the the case.well you could say spying is roleplay, although how the spying is done in this game aint :rolleyes:
the only way to avoid the revenge killing of one char to another, is to make sure noone(or a trusted few) know the 2 chars are connected, then they can be played as separate people.
other wise you are gonna get the revenge killing side of it, your looking at if from a roleplayer point of view, not everyone views it as that.
i attacked a biotech(and killed)runner in PP otherday, some fellow crahites went to res him saying to me "hes TG leavehim" etc etc, i knew full well who he was and who his alts were, but thats irrelavant, right there right then he was red to me, so i attacked him.
if he had been on his TG chars i would of left him(though i wonder if he will leave me now) but as the story shows others treated the player as the same person regardless of faction.
I get the same, I killed a clanned Crahn guy at Battle Dome, then an FA comes along as says "don't kill him he's FA". Yeah, and the clan and faction tags prove it. :rolleyes:
@Original: RP does exist on Saturn if people bother to look for it. It doesn't help when people can't do even little things like treat alts as different people.
You're right, it is tough. For a year on Uranus I had 4 characters, each with distinctly separate personalities, goals and mannerisms:
Bus Driver: polite profit-oriented multi-tradeskiller
hivemind: confident, honorable freedom fighter
Ingmar Bonesteel: Proto Pharm big wheel, Faction Council rep and no BS ubertank
Ayoelle: total sociopathic bitch
They were spread across two or three factions (hostile factions) and two different clans.
There were some people who caught on and had no problem with it. But most people just couldn't differentiate between my characters. Maybe it was my fault, maybe I wasn't good enough at playing the different roles. But I can tell you that often, people who didn't know who my four characters were had NO IDEA that they were the same player on different characters. Eventually the secret got out too, and that kinda ruined it. But really, most people just refuse to RP. :(
My suggestions to anyone who wants to do this would be:
1. Keep it secret, keep it safe. ;)
2. Don't join different clans. Maybe one clanned guy and the rest unclanned. If your clans find out, they'll probably feel betrayed.
3. DO join different factions.
4. Try very hard to not metagame - NEVER use info gained with one character to aid another. Don't mule gear from one char to another either.
5. Develop a background and goal for each character.
6. Think of different mannerisms or quirks for each character.
7. Try not to jump between them too much - play only one each game session.
8. See point #1. :)
Basically, you're playing like it's a one character server (and you've only got one account :rolleyes: ). But you've got more things to do when you're bored. It takes a lot of self control, and you've often got to think very carefully about what you say, know, or do on each character.
But :rolleyes: , there's always going to be people who are "too cool" for RP who will refuse to understand what you're doing, and do things like kill your other characters. That's why you should just keep it quiet. The only safe secret is one that no one knows. :p And use your ignore list. :lol:
It's a lot of fun though...
Original monk
05-04-04, 15:47
RP does exist on Saturn if people bother to look for it. It doesn't help when people can't do even little things like treat alts as different people.
look hard ya mean ...
and its all nice here on the forums and all but i still gotta find 1 person that threads alts as diffrent people ... for example: you step into pepper park and my tank (Tangent) who in this imaginary example is youre factionenemy happens to kill you bigtime ... now you go get poked, heal up and come back to pepper park ...
by then i happen to have relogged my TG apu ... who in this example is allied with you ... and you claim that you wouldnt attack my apu ?? knowing very well that it is the same person that killed you a sec ago ...
hehe, thats bollox ... i would be dead in a sec lol ... not like you gonna roleplay a bit and care about my faction lol ...
if not: then it would be the first time in my life that someone would spare my humble life for the sole reason of roleplay :)
or: i could of been wrong and you guys are yust little angels online (altough when ya hear ya guys ya sound pretty tough)
but as i know saturn ... nah ... as soon as they know its you, youre dead :)
edit: and the other way around ... as soon as i know that an enemy is standing infront of me ... nomather what he's faction or clan or i dunno what is ... he's dead rofl
look hard ya mean ...
and its all nice here on the forums and all but i still gotta find 1 person that threads alts as diffrent people ... for example: you step into pepper park and my tank (Tangent) who in this imaginary example is youre factionenemy happens to kill you bigtime ... now you go get poked, heal up and come back to pepper park ...
by then i happen to have relogged my TG apu ... who in this example is allied with you ... and you claim that you wouldnt attack my apu ?? knowing very well that it is the same person that killed you a sec ago ...
hehe, thats bollox ... i would be dead in a sec lol ... not like you gonna roleplay a bit and care about my faction lol ...
if not: then it would be the first time in my life that someone would spare my humble life for the sole reason of roleplay :)
or: i could of been wrong and you guys are yust little angels online (altough when ya hear ya guys ya sound pretty tough)
but as i know saturn ... nah ... as soon as they know its you, youre dead :)
edit: and the other way around ... as soon as i know that an enemy is standing infront of me ... nomather what he's faction or clan or i dunno what is ... he's dead roflif the person in my story had logged his TG alt on i wouldnt of attacked him as he would of been allie on that char, though of course not everyone follows a roelplay approach to chars.
look hard ya mean ...
and its all nice here on the forums and all but i still gotta find 1 person that threads alts as diffrent people ... for example: you step into pepper park and my tank (Tangent) who in this imaginary example is youre factionenemy happens to kill you bigtime ... now you go get poked, heal up and come back to pepper park ...
by then i happen to have relogged my TG apu ... who in this example is allied with you ... and you claim that you wouldnt attack my apu ?? knowing very well that it is the same person that killed you a sec ago ...
hehe, thats bollox ... i would be dead in a sec lol ... not like you gonna roleplay a bit and care about my faction lol ...
if not: then it would be the first time in my life that someone would spare my humble life for the sole reason of roleplay :)
or: i could of been wrong and you guys are yust little angels online (altough when ya hear ya guys ya sound pretty tough)
but as i know saturn ... nah ... as soon as they know its you, youre dead :)
edit: and the other way around ... as soon as i know that an enemy is standing infront of me ... nomather what he's faction or clan or i dunno what is ... he's dead rofl
Before now, no, I wouldn't have killed you. However, despite generally being not very religious at all there is one thing I always live by - treat others as you would like them to treat you. You've just said that in the opposite situation you would attack me. So of course I'm going to kill your alt. You don't RP yourself so complaining that I'm not would make you a hypocrite. If see no evidence either way I assume someone at least tends towards RP. Once I know they don't RP at all (and you just fell into this category) then there's no point in me RPing towards them and I extend the same courtesy towards them that they would show me.
Original monk
05-04-04, 16:00
if the person in my story had logged his TG alt on i wouldnt of attacked him as he would of been allie on that char, though of course not everyone follows a roelplay approach to chars.
ic, intresting ezza, and do all youre chars have the same faction ?
cause the more chars and factions ya have the more complicated it gets lol, after a while ya know anyone anyway and ya kill the ones ya dont like ... red, blue,green,orange i dont care lol
the ones that asked for it gotta pay, nomather what shiney colour or clanname they have :)
ic, intresting ezza, and do all youre chars have the same faction ?
cause the more chars and factions ya have the more complicated it gets lol, after a while ya know anyone anyway and ya kill the ones ya dont like ... red, blue,green,orange i dont care lol
the ones that asked for it gotta pay, nomather what shiney colour or clanname they have :)
nope my 3 main chars are are crahn, i have another that is still BD, a CA guy 2 mercs and another guy who i will not mention :p
and you seem to do your own thing anyway regardless so your an exception it would seem
Original monk
05-04-04, 16:14
treat others as you would like them to treat you.
You've just said that in the opposite situation you would attack me. So of course I'm going to kill your alt.
You don't RP yourself so complaining that I'm not would make you a hypocrite.
If see no evidence either way I assume someone at least tends towards RP.
Once I know they don't RP at all (and you just fell into this category) then there's no point in me RPing towards them
and I extend the same courtesy towards them that they would show me.
same here ... guess thats why we didnt woop eachothers ass last time we met at PP :)
edit to ezza: ok, then ya know how difficult it could be sumtimes :)
and 1 secret char EEK :D bad bad boy ! whats he's class ?
hivemind ???
hivemind = original ingmar bonesteel ?
hivemind = original bus driver ?
COME BACK TO URANUS !!!!!!!!
havent seen you in ages :(
well you could say spying is roleplay, although how the spying is done in this game aint :rolleyes:
Exactly ezza, but thats only one small problem another is the whole 'you killed my char so now i'll get my alt', so I kill a TG runner then a Diamond real estate runner turns up and kills me because of it, now thats real annoying.
hivemind ???
hivemind = original ingmar bonesteel ?
hivemind = original bus driver ?
COME BACK TO URANUS !!!!!!!!
havent seen you in ages :(
See what I mean? ROFL. Several of my characters spent a lot of time with Naimex, and he had no idea. So it CAN be done, but you gotta be smart about it. :)
And I am back on Uranus, but I'm splitting my time now between all servers for more excitement. I'm a Tangent on Pluto, a Crahn on Venus, Twilight Guardian on Jupi, Black Dragon and Next on Saturn, and Proto, Tsunami, BD and TG on Uranus. :) :) :)
Its a tuff issue. As much as I am for RP and all, itd be hard for me to get around it if a clanned member had another character in an enemy faction. Where would his loyalties lie? Would he rip us off? Etc...
Basically if I or another person had an alt in another faction, Id say DON'T tell me. Thats the only way to do it, not knowing. Even though its a game, things can get personal real easy. People dont look at the character, they look at the person playing the character. Its unfortunate but I think most of us including myself are guilty of it.
Original monk
05-04-04, 18:34
Even though its a game, things can get personal real easy. People dont look at the character, they look at the person playing the character. Its unfortunate but I think most of us including myself are guilty of it.
people dont look at the character ... they look at the person playing the character ...
im guilty also
The only reason I revealed my personas is to extend my services forum-wise. If I'm in a certain persona however, I'll be sure I act within my character's limits...meaning, if my own characters somehow met each other, I know for sure some of them would fight one another. If I can do that with myself, I can do that with anyone else. But I will certainly not try to alt for revenge. If I can't do it with the char I'm on at the time, I must accept it and adapt it into my storylines.
Of course, for example with Kalima & Kenjuten, if one of them gets beat up, later on (of course not immediately-immediately), when they talk with each other periodically they can exchange information...especially what happened to them. Of course, if one of them doesn't feel like it, they don't have to disclose such info. I mean, there is such a thing as pride in some of my characters after all. =P
Hell, I can mail myself, can't I?
I've always tried to 100% RP my character, and I know what Archeus/Julia is doing. I see them as two character, Archeus who is a fellow Fallen Angel, and Julia who has been corrupted by Crahn, and must be removed at all costs from Techhaven! :D And I say you are RP'ing both characters well!
And I've often seen cases of "If you insult my noob 0/2 character I will log my uber capped, hard as balls 70/70 tank and kick your ass" O_o
I've seen the bitching on Faction Chat, and I do believe it's uncalled for. As for the intel that Archeus could use with Julia, well regardless if he's really doing it or not, is open to debate, but all one has to do is goto another server and create a Fallen Angel character to find out Techhaven's weak spots.
And besides, a few of us Fallen Angels have had a good laugh trying to catch Julia - she's a hard bitch to catch! :D Keep doing the raids!
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