class only

[Prodigious]

can we please have no more class only items in game, only the PA's have it and we dont want class only spy dex armour, or class only weapons, because at the moment the game is not shaped for class only things, the skills are what decide what you can do, not your class.

please no more bright spark ideas about class only items, that includes dex armour, no class only stealths, no class only str armour, psi armour, psi modules, pistols, rifles, ANYTHING.

it just wont work, come up with another idea........

[Kenjuten]

Oh, I dunno...

Only Tanks can truly use their melee and H-C rares, you wanna take that away also?

And the PPUs and APUs... without their exclusive stuff the Hybrids would either be back to what they were before the nerfs or crippled to hell, depending on how KK would go about that particular one! :eek:

These EXAMPLES may not be what you had in mind, but what you're asking for in ONE sense is for everyone to not be unique; to not be different.

Seriously, play UT or Quake or (Insert equal-to-all-period FPS NON-MMO(RPG) game here) if you're wanting what you're asking. You won't get it here.



After writing this, and before posting, I've taken a step back to see if I really was reading your post.

Lemme see...


can we please have no more class only items in game, only the PA's have it and we dont want class only spy dex armour, or class only weapons, because at the moment the game is not shaped for class only things, the skills are what decide what you can do, not your class.

Right.......you do realize that, for example, even if Tanks went to Harvard and somehow graduated, they'd still not be able to do intellectual things as well as Spies could?

Your class that you choose as does dictate what you can do, because your class dictates how good your stats are, which dictate your skills, which then dictate what you can do.

/BigPictureCheck


please no more bright spark ideas about class only items, that includes dex armour, no class only stealths, no class only str armour, psi armour, psi modules, pistols, rifles, ANYTHING.

Ahem...

The reason for the current Class Restrictions on certain gear is to help balance.

Example: It is absolutely possible for a PE to wear a Spy armor if it were not for the fact only Spies can wear the armor.

But you know what? Maybe KK has a heart. Instead of pushing the PAs up to insane Dex levels so that only Spies can use it, they decided to spare the Spies themselves and make the Dex levels lower.

Yaknow, either way is class-restricting. it's just that entire "Class Only" Label that makes you twitch. It's right in your face. You can't ever get it, even if you tried to spec your char in an all-nighter to try to make yourself wear it.

Well, you want to know why they put the label on, kiddo?

Using my example, if PEs were able to wear the Spy PAs, they'd close the gap that exists, which by the way is relatively small as of now, which would create yet another reason for Spies to have less reason to exist.

Things are done to preserve the uniqueness of each class.


it just wont work, come up with another idea........

You can make suggestions on how to make things more fair to you, but honestly, I don't think your post can cut butter.

[Rade]

I agree completely prod, imo making the PAs class restricted was
stupid as well. Why should tanks and PEs wear "eachothers"
PAs? Wouldnt unbalance anything, just make things more fun.
The problem as I saw it was that PEs with the lower level Spy
PAs would be to powerfull but that would have been easily
solved by having a int req on them as well, and if some PE then
gimped himself to get 85 int or whatever the req would be then it
probably wouldnt be very unbalanced anymore. KK work with
requirements not stupid nonsencical restrictions!

Kenjuten I think you are missing his point tbh.

[~Drav~]

lol, ther eason that there are class specific requirements now is that without them a PE can get access to items that should not be within his reach.

The only people that cry... are PE's, rad for example, yeh your a good PE rade but for christ sake some day your gonna have to realise that a PE is not a fucking 1 man army and should have its own limitations.....


please no more bright spark ideas about class only items, that includes dex armour, no class only stealths, no class only str armour, psi armour, psi modules, pistols, rifles, ANYTHING.

it just wont work, come up with another idea........

Why no DEX armour

Why not restrict stealth to the spy's that it was fucking intended for
who the hell mentioned class only strength armour O_o
PSI armour is uh, well, PSI armour, dipshit, naturally its only PSI's that can wear anything above the basic set, in which case most people can use better stuff from normal armours . . .




I have a feeling, that this wasnt intended as a new thread but more some comeback to my thread about kevlarite armour, dex based psi armour, something thats been talked about since ohhhhh probably a hell of alot longer then youve been playing this game, reply button is your friend, else nxt time try making a constructive post rather then something like this, which imo, is blatantly trying to start a argument between him and us that forward these ideas.

hey mr brightspark, whats your view on the balance in PVP in neocron as it currently is ? Do you honestly think that a PE should have access to the best pistols and the best rifles, have self cast shelter, better solo defence then a tank, have access to stealth (THE best defence in the game) have enough INT to take a trade either hacking or implanting. well fuck me, PE's got it hard nowadays dont they :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[alig]

Make h-c weapons high reqs...i fucking hate seeing pe's using h-c weapons, its like watching a hybrid Vs hybrid again, they take no dmg and deal no dmg in a short period.

[Nightbrother]

Originally posted by alig
Make h-c weapons high reqs...i fucking hate seeing pe's using h-c weapons, its like watching a hybrid Vs hybrid again, they take no dmg and deal no dmg in a short period.

So on the extremely rare occasion that two HC PE's battle each other with Speed Gat's, let's just leave them alone, so they can bore each other to death? :p

It's not as if PE's can use Ravagers, Dev's, STORM lasers, CS or any good stuff like that. Why not allow for a little experimentation? If people want to create a char that is a little odd, and in no way overpowered, why should we say no to that? :)

[Rade]

Originally posted by ~Drav~
The only people that cry... are PE's, rad for example, yeh your a good PE rade but for christ sake some day your gonna have to realise that a PE is not a fucking 1 man army and should have its own limitations.....


I think you are missing the point entirely, its not about giving PEs
stuff, its about removing restrictions that doesnt make sense and
let people make more interesting setups, setups which in
themselves will most likely be gimpy but fun for some people and
above all else reduce the level of cookie-cutting and
specialization. PAs arent a _big_ problem but what the
threadstarter is saying is that we dont want more of the kind,
leave items open for use to all classes but restrict them by
placing stat-requirments on them. If PEs using spy armor would
be a problem then dont just smack on some magical class
restriction on them which makes no sense, just put some int reqs
on them as well. The beuty of neocron was always the flexibility
of what you can do with what class given some time to work with
it.

[Devils Grace]

yea

lets remake this game from bottom to top

change everyting

change all

i want some droms that can fly
why shoudnt they

o_O

[Rade]

Originally posted by Devils Grace
yea

lets remake this game from bottom to top

change everyting

change all

i want some droms that can fly
why shoudnt they

o_O

Im trying to figure out who that is a pun against.. the people who
want class restricted items or what?

[Devils Grace]

Originally posted by Rade
Im trying to figure out who that is a pun against.. the people who
want class restricted items or what?

then u missed my point...

[Rade]

Originally posted by Devils Grace
then u missed my point...

yeah, that was my point ;) no one here is trying to change
anything. then you missed our point. ffs whats with all these
points...

[Scikar]

The only class which would really gain anything by removing class restrictions is the PE. Spy armor would definitely be too much, and giving them access to Tank PA just opens up a whole range of bad ideas. You reckon the setups would be gimpy, but I know for a fact there is always someone who figures out a way to take a little bit from one area, little bit from another, and hey presto one superpowered char. If you want to use a CS then make a Tank, it's bad enough as it is that PEs steal all the spy's decent weapons, I don't see why we should let them encroach on everything.

Stealth for example was only added because nobody had a decent spy setup, there was no spy PA, so they deserved it. PEs didn't, they didn't need it one bit, but they get that. Next we'll have stealth PEs with their shelters on using Tank PA and drugging up to CS, then you wonder what's the point of playing any other class except a monk? PEs can already use regular Plasma Cannon and Unlabeled Plasma Cannon, plus SpeedGun. They can use just about every single lvl 2 imp the game and most of the lvl 3 imps. PEs can do just about anything as long as they stick to non-rares, and that's the way it should be. They don't need anything more.

[LTA]

Slowly this game is growing to the point where ultimately your char is setup for you qhen you pick em, hell you may aswell just configure the char creation to


pvp pain easer spy/pe etc then it just sets up your stat points for you as you level like auto assigned points, slowly asd pvp is a core element everyone ends with just about the same setup only difference being con which takes some figuring.
I remember when you used to see all types of chars, libby/pain easer tanks, hybs, pes with allsorts of things, spies doing diff things people seemed more inclined to be different or try something.
now if it isnt leet pvp specialised setup its not for the most they just follow the rest and setup accordingly...

and everything but the pe has 2 main stats, dont want the pe using there top level shiznit then add the 2 stats as req or booost the req to force the pe into a drug route....
imo rares shouldnt even be an option for them unless drugged, but as non rares suck ass royally i cant argue anymore about it and wont but they may aswell not be known as JOATS but more rifler/pistolers with the odd hcer here n there..

[Kenjuten]

Originally posted by Rade
I agree completely prod, imo making the PAs class restricted was
stupid as well. Why should tanks and PEs wear "eachothers"
PAs? Wouldnt unbalance anything, just make things more fun.
The problem as I saw it was that PEs with the lower level Spy
PAs would be to powerfull but that would have been easily
solved by having a int req on them as well, and if some PE then
gimped himself to get 85 int or whatever the req would be then it
probably wouldnt be very unbalanced anymore. KK work with
requirements not stupid nonsencical restrictions!

Kenjuten I think you are missing his point tbh.

I am somehow relieved that you spared me in such a manner. I simply want to warn against this sort of thing...

But on the other hand, I'm not sure you're seeing mine and others point either...mayhaps you simply only want to see your own points?

I know you're a PE activist, so...I'm not saying that's wrong, but somehow I had a feeling you'd agree with the thread starter's idea. :p

[Devils Grace]

Originally posted by Rade
yeah, that was my point ;) no one here is trying to change
anything. then you missed our point. ffs whats with all these
points...

the fatc u missed my point cleary indicates that ur point is not my point wich therefore maybe, and only maybe be not the point that the thread started tryed to point OUT
point is, all our points are unique

[Prodigious]

the point of my thread starter is that no item has class requirements on them other than PA's and now people want armour, my point is that Spys were given low str (ie low level) armour in exchange for high dex and access to lower weapons.

Tanks high str (for cannons and high lvl armour) and low int so they cant become amazing constructors.

you all know the reason why each class has the skills its given, so im not going to bore you explaining it.

why should then, PE's get access to high weapons and good armours and a shelter spell.

That is what this game boils down to in a nutshell, they are the jack-of-all-trades. but maybe slightly more than a jack in each trade more of a prince (whereas tanks are king at str, spies kings at dex etc etc.)

this means they become fucking good solo characters.

now spies moan because we get their guns and with shelter we get tank defence.

So instead of making these magic class only items, why dont you fill up the top end of the rares list for dex based weapons?

why not have a rare rifle that requires 125 dex?

because that is the gap, not the armour gap, spies arent meant to have kevlarite armour or whatever.

tanks is a different kettle of fish however but ill leave that to the people who know more about the game than i do(yes im not a fucking expert but i havnt pretended to be, so dont throw your dolly out the pram when i say something you dont like)

and the other thing is


Originally posted by ~Drav~
something thats been talked about since ohhhhh probably a hell of alot longer then youve been playing this game

my post count has nothing to do with how long i have pld the game, and neither does the fact you dont recognise my name, and i didnt want to swear in this thread but how about one big stfu, cos your not contructive in your wording at all.


Originally posted by ~Drav~
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and as for stealth, if PE's werent meant to have it, then KK should havemade it possible for them to do so.

one more thing i thought of is that psi armour is based on well, psi.

and people can use the first level of it if needed, so why not make that possible with all armours?

should dex armour be introduced others than spies should have access to it, and the same for PA's. I dont want Spy PA4 or Tank PA3, but why should i not be able to wear level 1 pa for a different class, or tanks able to dex imp up for PE/Spy level 1 PA.

more versatility should be possible, even if it means cross classing.

[Kenjuten]

Originally posted by Prodigious


why not have a rare rifle that requires 125 dex?

[intro about psi armors]

and people can use the first level of it if needed, so why not make that possible with all armours?

more versatility should be possible, even if it means cross classing.

When you put it into this sense, I agree it's a nice idea.

Just an aside: PEs are about the only class that can wear the 4th version of their own PA easily.
*End Aside*

I still say that the reason KK has done what they did with Armors is to help balance...and to make things easy for the classes that are meant to wear the high-end equipment the equipment was originally designed for.

However, since your quote above, I suppose all chars being able to wear level 1 of each others' equipment is acceptable. :D

[Scikar]

Level 1 and 2 equipment across classes isn't really a problem. But any armor aimed at spies is by definition going to overpower PEs if they can use it. A 125 DEX rifle would need a spy to be utterly gimped to use, just to meet the 125 DEX would be hard enough, and then they're going to get pants stats on it too. If they do get mediocre RoF on it they'll be slowed to a crawl. Plus it'll end up being high tech too which drains more T-C.

Class reqs are needed to balance one class without upsetting the balance of another. If they had been in earlier I'm 99% certain KK would have put Spy only on stealth tools.

[LTA]

Originally posted by ~Drav~


hey mr brightspark, whats your view on the balance in PVP in neocron as it currently is ? Do you honestly think that a PE should have access to the best pistols and the best rifles, have self cast shelter, better solo defence then a tank, have access to stealth (THE best defence in the game) have enough INT to take a trade either hacking or implanting. well fuck me, PE's got it hard nowadays dont they :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lol all cept the olde low techer...

Wish i had some specialised shit for my pe...

I have a underpowered pain easer, no stealth, no other skill bar psi use and wep lore, don't even have a second rifle choice because its not even in the game when it was spose to be out yonks ago.
I am not needed in op wars, not as much as any other class in the game, i come because i have the ability to harass enemies without wasting ppu time

So yes my pe does have it hard.

Things like Pistol pa would allow me to technically hybrid, fair does it wont be great but meh i can at least have a choice of some weps instead of being stuck to one.
Certain armours would make me stronger by far

[Prodigious]

with the not-so-recent-anymore addition of PA's there really is no reason for anyone not to spec TC anymore, apart from the mediocre excuse of

ITS FUGLY!!

but i do agree with that statement.

The thing is with class only is the private eye is supposed to be a jack of all trades but what good is that if he comes with his own armour?

the thing i am worried about is that as with PA there will not be enough variety in the different classes armour, all 4PA's have 2 choices of weapon (eg pistol/rifle, melee/heavy, ppu/apu) and the resists r the same.


it would only work if we had, Inquisition Power armour etc etc etc instead of just making all PA's energy etc.


at the minute the game is on rails, you know what weapon you will be using, what to spec for, and what armour to use, and having class only items doesnt help this as its basically saying

look this armour is here and only spies can use it!! that means it was given us to balance us so we must have to use it.....:rolleyes:

eventually ending us up with about 3 choices of armour.

there are not enough items to make class only items

[Kenjuten]

Have you ever considered that maybe more items would thus allow enough of an item pool to have class only items?

If class only items are introduced into the game, that would mean more items in the pool that would make said introduced items more justified.

Just wanted to throw that curveball thought at you. :)

How about we just make new items for the PEs, level 1 versions of every other class's Power Armors, and possibly make them PE-only since they're meant for the jack of all trades. Maybe that'll work?

[Marx]

Class restrictions are the next step in the path of complete specialization. I of course, am against it.

In the same manner I was against PE PA since PE's could wear the first levels of spy and tank PA.

If I want to make some sort of odd combat combo, I should not be held back from my goal.

[Kal]

PEs need pa to compete with tanks and monks nowadays, i would love to see PE PA removed but then tanks at least would have to have to have their weapons nerfed back to their privious effectiveness

[Original monk]

dont whine lol

when ya have nice spystuff and ya dont want them PE's to use all that nice spystuff cause they allready have enough they can use then yust put on a class restriction ... simple

[Sleawer]

I agree with Marx.
There are other ways to balance what is in the reach of PEs.
Life is about choices, you sacrifice this to achieve that.

[Kenjuten]

Mm.

I now am for the most part neutral in light of recent posts.

As such, I suppose I'll remove myself from actively speaking on this thread..

My final thought is that, well, I don't mind either way what happens.

[Judge]

God dammit, when will you people realise that just because we mostly play PEs doesn't mean that we want overpowered uberness. It would get sooooo boring if was completely overpowered.... I mean ffs, I'm a lowtech Pistol user with no PA and a gimped Psi setup. You think that I want my class overpowered when I could easily make myself more powerful if I wanted?

Anyway, I was always against Class restrictions. Think about what Rade said.... Yes it would be overpowering if PEs got Spies first level armour, BUT, if you put a high int requirement on it then a PE would have to gimp to use it, which would mean that it would no longer be overpowered.

We don't want to use CS's Scikar because thats just stupid, we just want to be able to make more interesting setups, with a bit more variety. Which is why people are asking for Dex melee weapons like Katanas and stuff like that. Not that we want to be overpowered.... just that we want more interesting looks, and styles of play.

Personally I would have no problem with, for example, tanks wanting more different styles of play as we do. It just seems that because no Tanks ask for it they automatically assume that we PEs shouldn't be either. We appear to be slightly more vocal.

[Jesterthegreat]

well... after readin these 2 pages... i gotta say i have no idea what to put...


prod: you talk loads... and some of it is sense... and FYI i was a capped tank on Uranus when you started (there at least). im not sayin im big and clever because of it... but people seem to be pointin out when they been here since for some reason. were you on uranus when I led about 30-40 runners, with a GM into MC5? do you participate in the community as much as me? tbh i dont care... i dont feel like im better cos of anything. some people who played less than me know more and/or play better... i have never claimed to be a "vet" like some people do constantly...

and... why exactly are you against dex armour? i suggested in the other thread about a dex / int req... another way of doing it (since you are all quick to point out that spies defence should be shit) is to make the top dex stuff equal to the highest a PE normally gets:

Spy -

lower resists
drug for shelter

PE -

higher resists
Shelter with ease

Both -

similar resists in armour

this would be a boost for spies, but would still leave them below PE's / tanks / PPU's defense-wise



and everyone loves to say "spies are tradeskill0rz!11!11 no combat for j00!!1!1!" well great... tradeskillers... you think spies wouldnt create some kind of effective armour for themselves? spies arent stupid, they look after number one



as for class based items... i agree this sucks. however i also think CA PA being CA only sucks... this is just as justified as you sayin PA should be all classes.


hell... all reqs removed would add variety... there is no RP reason why i need 81 strength to place a small chip in my head (81? has been long time since i looked at a marine) but that aint gonna happen. and as stated it aint gonna happen due to "balance". now i realise everyone has a different view on balance. the good / overpowered guys think the game has it, the shit / underpowered peeps think it doesnt.

if people would stop doing independant "this must be changed" threads the game / forums would be a better place :rolleyes: (and no im not talking about this thread in particular... :D)

[sparrowtm]

Originally posted by Kal
PEs need pa to compete with tanks and monks nowadays, i would love to see PE PA removed but then tanks at least would have to have to have their weapons nerfed back to their privious effectiveness

That's not true. There are a couple of PEs out there who do quite well without any PA. Most of them are LowTech-PEs of course. I'd not wear a PA as well if I decided to lom back to Libi/BS. Just isn't stylish. :)

And ... I don't know many PEs who wear their PA for resistance purposes. There are armor-combinations which are more effective without a PA on - it's just that stupid Dex and P-C/R-C bonus that forces hi-tech PE's to wear the ant-queen-suit.

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Judge
God dammit, when will you people realise that just because we mostly play PEs doesn't mean that we want overpowered uberness. It would get sooooo boring if was completely overpowered.... I mean ffs, I'm a lowtech Pistol user with no PA and a gimped Psi setup. You think that I want my class overpowered when I could easily make myself more powerful if I wanted?

Anyway, I was always against Class restrictions. Think about what Rade said.... Yes it would be overpowering if PEs got Spies first level armour, BUT, if you put a high int requirement on it then a PE would have to gimp to use it, which would mean that it would no longer be overpowered.

We don't want to use CS's Scikar because thats just stupid, we just want to be able to make more interesting setups, with a bit more variety. Which is why people are asking for Dex melee weapons like Katanas and stuff like that. Not that we want to be overpowered.... just that we want more interesting looks, and styles of play.

Personally I would have no problem with, for example, tanks wanting more different styles of play as we do. It just seems that because no Tanks ask for it they automatically assume that we PEs shouldn't be either. We appear to be slightly more vocal.


You may not want to be overpowered but I bet there's a shedload of PEs who do want to be. The same ones who want Exe TL lowered so they can use it without drugs. You say 'more interesting', well if you're not bothered about power and only interest then there's already plenty for you to do. As a PE you can mix and match much more than any other class, you can be running round with a Lib and still have enough H-C to gun a jeep, couple of drugs and you can use a spy's best weapons, you're the only class which can viably use its PA4, after PEs whined that Tanks could wear PA4 and keep it on without drugs by gimping themselves.

Without class restrictions spies will forever be gimps because whatever you give them either has to have insane reqs to keep it out of reach of PEs or has to suck so that PEs aren't unbalanced by using it. If you're so bothered about wearing other class' PA why were all the PEs crying out for PA of their own?

It's the same thing every time, there was a decision made long ago where PEs switched from being JOATs to being specialised DEX fighters but sacrificing some offense for some defence. They still retain some of the flexibility but now they have their own PA, they have vehicles specially designed for them, if PEs should be able to use Tank PA why shouldn't Tanks get Scorp Trikes?

[sparrowtm]

Originally posted by Scikar
Without class restrictions spies will forever be gimps because whatever you give them either has to have insane reqs to keep it out of reach of PEs or has to suck so that PEs aren't unbalanced by using it.

Don't worry, I got your point - but it sounds sooooo sweet: "Don't give spies anything new to play with or the ebil ebil PE's will come and take it away from them". :p

[Prodigious]

There is not enough items for class only items without them being there for enforced reasons and basically saying "here tanks, at the minute you need this"

PE's should not have their own armour, we should have access to Spy1/2 and Tank 1/2 or at least the PA1's (again the pa2 would be for specialized PE's) and then make pa4 more accessible for the originally meant for class (tanks/monk/spy)

i want to take a bit from each class, not have my own skills that are supposedly a bit of each class rather than just something worked out to give us the best we could accross the board (funny how we can shelter easily, and blessed deflect without PA, spec hack if your a pistoler v.easily, or imp or whatever, spec good resists, and still use spies weapons) it was the introudction of PEPA that fucked it all up tbh, how many viable PE's did you see running around with FL's at hand and slashers / execs?



Originally posted by Scikar
It's the same thing every time, there was a decision made long ago where PEs switched from being JOATs to being specialised DEX fighters but sacrificing some offense for some defence.


except they didnt lose any offence because we only lost access to Top end rares which are majority shit....and we got some pretty fucking good D now. Then we get PA meaning we can get the Top end rares if we want (so whos fault is it? the guy that made PEPA?)

if you think PE's should be JOAT's then remove our PA, and make us spec for Spy PA/Tank PA and then make very top end items class only (as this makes sense!) because you have to be of that particular classes specialization to use it. like stealth 2 upwards for example....why should we get stealth 1? cos we are jack of all trades, the PE is unbalanced and i guess that is why these class only items appear, but it is just not right with the context of the rest of the game

[Kenjuten]

Originally posted by Prodigious

there are not enough items to make class only items


Originally posted by Kenjuten
Have you ever considered that maybe more items would thus allow enough of an item pool to have class only items?

If class only items are introduced into the game, that would mean more items in the pool that would make said introduced items more justified.

Just wanted to throw that curveball thought at you. :)

Hello? You missed the curveball, so that's Strike 1.

I did say I'd stop talking actively in this thread, but that only included bringing in new concepts on my part.

[Mr_Snow]

Basically another PE "we can't use everything in the game its not fair" thread.

Oh and Prodigious the reason that class only reqs were put in in the first place is that everyone knew your class would hop straight into spy PA ignore PE PA and have overspecced X-ray resists and be even uberer then before.

Its the PE snatching at weapons and items that were designed before the advent of PE PAs and SAs that has led to class only items and will continue to lead that way as long as they do.

But I agree on one point that PEs should either be able to use low tank PAs or have MC HC PE PAs introduced as people with unusual setups should be encouraged.

Oh and making dex/int based armour for spies wont over-power or nerf anybody just make spies a little more viable in combat and you think this is a bad thing why?

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Oh and Prodigious the reason that class only reqs were put in in the first place is that everyone knew your class would hop straight into spy PA ignore PE PA and have overspecced X-ray resists and be even uberer then before.

whats to stop them usin the old school Anti-Rad suit for the xray resist? ok its 115 dex so its drug drug drug... but thats sick Xray + executioner if you can pull it off... O_o

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
whats to stop them usin the old school Anti-Rad suit for the xray resist? ok its 115 dex so its drug drug drug... but thats sick Xray + executioner if you can pull it off... O_o

Because most arent that smart and also cant get to the 115 without their PA4 on.

I know Keiron as a disrupter PE was thinking of using it but it was too much gimpage.

[Jesterthegreat]

SA +6
SF +5
Moto 3 +5
SRI +5
Exp Reflex 4 +5


+26 w/o PA

thats... what... 106? does PE dex cap at 80? im not a PE :)

Redflash +5
Whiteflash +4

thats 115 dex, executioner, 2 dex drugs = SICK run speed



O_o

[Mr_Snow]

Damage RoF will be shit though so hense why its not really useable especially since it doesnt give and combat bonuses and gives less x-ray resist then the PAs do.

[Jesterthegreat]

damage / rof will be shit?


well...

maybe with you setting it up? personally i would have 165-170 pistol combat self buffed..... (at least i think thats what my skillmanager churned out last night)

165 - 170 pc, 145 (iirc) wep lore...

that seems bad to you?

[Mr_Snow]

For an exec or slasher yes it does.

You can throw everything into weapon lore to get the damage capped or near capped, would also ensure aiming is capped, but you would still be left with a pretty shitty RoF.

[Jesterthegreat]

aiming is piss to cap, RoF isnt too bad. i know someone who uses similar IRL, and with a pistol 3 it takes down capped tanks in seconds

self buffs he is far from shit...

[Sleawer]

Weapon Lore barely affects so high TL weapons; you need PC (190+) and still the RoF won't go above 150'ish.

The 168 PC you get with that setup does not compensate the resists gain... before gamma bones it was worth the try, now with the bones and extra ENR resists from PA (+bonuses) it isn't.

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
self buffs he is far from shit...

I never said he would be shit I said the rof would be and Ive seen clans go down to lone exec PEs.

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Mr_Snow
I never said he would be shit I said the rof would be and Ive seen clans go down to lone exec PEs.

and im saying its doable... if PE's need the xray, which was the point of my post... i never said it was a good thing, i replied to:

Oh and Prodigious the reason that class only reqs were put in in the first place is that everyone knew your class would hop straight into spy PA ignore PE PA and have overspecced X-ray resists and be even uberer then before

[Mr_Snow]

I never said it wasnt doable, its doable but it would still gimp damage and frequency and I dont think even throwing all of a PEs int into it would cap the damage.

The point being that if a PE could use spy PA he could easily get into spy PA 2 get shit loads of x-ray resist and a PC/RC bonus along with being able to use PC/RC imps amking their resists alot better without gimpage to their offence.

I dont mind PEs being able to use anti-rad suits because it requires gimpage to use it but basically prodigious wants to be able to use it easily without the gimpage effect.

[Sleawer]

Originally Spy PA had Int/Dex requirements, if the Int req is high enought, 80+, the gimpage would be the same.

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by Sleawer
Originally Spy PA had Int/Dex requirements, if the Int req is high enought, 80+, the gimpage would be the same.

Would mean that by the time your using that you would have 100 dex or more on anything but a droner which would gimp spies because of PEs.

[Sleawer]

That was the reason for 'class req' PAs I think.

Do you remember the old LEs, that made weapons to have second stats for players wearing them. I wonder if something like that, reqs specifically aimed to balanced PEs, would fit in the class well.

[Prodigious]

A 125 DEX rifle would need a spy to be utterly gimped to use, just to meet the 125 DEX would be hard enough, and then they're going to get pants stats on it too. If they do get mediocre RoF on it they'll be slowed to a crawl. Plus it'll end up being high tech too which drains more T-C..


so make it a tl 100 weapon that is completely overpowered, then up the dex requirement and Rifle requirement as they did with APU/PPU modules to cause hybrids a load of hassle, that way they(spies) would cap it almost as easily as they cap a RoG and yet it would be unaccessible to PE's without completely dexxing up with imps plus drugs (now if that doesnt gimp a PE nothing does) so it makes it even stevens bar the shelter, but that will always be a problem with a lot of spies because they need to drug to shelter anyway. but at least with this rifle, they could hit the requirements easily and one drug for shelter, PE's dont need to drug to shelter but are looking at at least 2 drugs to use the weapon, say for example it was 118 dexterity requirement, and as for tech combat, any spy with that kind of dex is probably looking at speccing for the use of an obliterator.

/edit

looking at that spy vs PE a PE is still likely to win with self buffs (barring brainiac sint taking part) but against a tank it is going to be damn close compared to a fast as fook PE running around against a (practically) turret tank as it is of current