[brainport] Kevlarite Armour - Spy DEX req armour

[~Drav~]

hokay...

As it currently stands, there is not much difference between a PE and a spy in terms of weaponary as with drugs PE's get access to the higher level pistols and rifles and can get good damage and ROF if they aare willing to take more drugs cause of their imp setup. The advantage that a PE has though is their general durability and that they can self shelter without drugs, and have much better access to lvl 2 and even lvl 3 armour.

For a spy to achieve that, they have to take STR implants, thus gimping their options on fully capping the higher weapons intended for them, ending up in them getting around the same stats as a PE, however thye will also have to drug for shelter if they want the extra defence, and only have access to level 1 armours.

One thing that was intended aloooooooong time ago was for duranit to be the spy's version of energy armour. They ended up STR based and more a waste of space as a little higher there is Duranium armour. Heavy belts were introduced to kinda make up for this. Heavy belts are great but dont exactly cut it...

Hows about a new range of armours, Kevlarite. SPY class requirement to distinguish it as spy armour rather then DEX armour that PE's can use, bringing some needed defence to spy's. Dont give it resist value like tank/psi armour but something comparable to the current duranit range but with a DEX requirement going upto around TL90 like tank's duranium armours.

PSI's have their own armour, Tanks have their own armour, PE's use the lower level tank armour. Spy's get the crappy battlearmour that is frankly... useless :p

Any other idea's ?

[Jesterthegreat]

havent read it... but i know what it will say :) i would be against a whole line of armour being class based...

i would only suggest dex / int req... PE's wearing TL 100 dex armour (compared to... TL60 str armour? im not a PE so im not sure) would be sick... O_o

[~Drav~]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
i would only suggest dex / int req... PE's wearing TL 100 dex armour (compared to... TL60 str armour? im not a PE so im not sure) would be sick... O_o

read it again O_o :p

[Sleawer]

I agree. Currently Spies have to drug and sacrifice implant slots to get a well deserved defence. A spy wearing inq1 armors is sacrificing implants not naturally designed for him, and often forced to consume drugs to not sacrifice even more stats in his weapons.

Spies getting the equivalent armors to what they are drugging for, but based in Dexterity/Intelligence skills, or 'Spy class only', is not going to unbalance the class as most of us already drug for this. It will place the Spy class as the specialist it is, creating a difference between PEs and Spies, no needing to drug the latter class.

[TWOK]

Make Cypher Helmet req less, finar :angel:

[athon]

As a hacking rifle spy I say NO!
That's right - NO!
Spies aren't supposed to have good defense. They are kinda like APUs - they are supposed to have good offense. All that needs to be done really is to unnerf the sniper rifle range and, possibly (would need to be tested I think), make spirit mods and bullets more common (IMO keep them the way they are atm being a construction mod rather than an ammo mod - and create a quest type thing to go with it - maybe make an NPC version of the current sniper who appears once a week or something - random day and time tho - but he keeps killing people till he's killed - he should turn up in a random wastelands zone and be able to move between watelands zones)

Athon Solo

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
havent read it... but i know what it will say :) i would be against a whole line of armour being class based...

i would only suggest dex / int req... PE's wearing TL 100 dex armour (compared to... TL60 str armour? im not a PE so im not sure) would be sick... O_o


An INT/DEX req IS a spy req... o_O

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by athon
As a hacking rifle spy I say NO!
That's right - NO!
Spies aren't supposed to have good defense. They are kinda like APUs - they are supposed to have good offense.
APUs have way higher offense than spies.
And now please compare the armor a spy can wear to the armor a monk can wear. o_O

[hivemind]

Originally posted by TWOK
Make Cypher Helmet req less, finar :angel:
I've been thinking that for a while. Change it to a STR 40 requirement and it'll go from a useless piece of shite to a highly sought-after, nay, required, item.

[~Drav~]

Originally posted by SorkZmok
APUs have way higher offense than spies.
And now please compare the armor a spy can wear to the armor a monk can wear. o_O

Thats pretty much my point...

Also I dont honestly see why tanks get split fire and energy armour. IMO it should be comparable to monk armour as tanksa re infact there as fighters and you woulda thought some bright spark guy woulda developed them armour comparable to monks ...

[Omnituens]

yup, spies need something.

and a note on sniper rifles, unfuck the bullet speed.

[Mr_Snow]

Originally posted by athon
As a hacking rifle spy I say NO!
That's right - NO!
Spies aren't supposed to have good defense. They are kinda like APUs - they are supposed to have good offense. All that needs to be done really is to unnerf the sniper rifle range

Yes thats some nice thinking only of your own class there and completely forgetting the pistol spy class who dont have all the time in the world to snipe stealth and runaway.

Just because it wont benefit your character doesnt mean it shouldnt be introduced.

And apus not only have more con then a spy they have armour that in reality is better then tanks when coupled with heavy belts.

Even if they made spy armour inbetween inq 1 and 2 in stats I think most spies would be happy that they wouldnt have to gimp their weapon frequency to have a semi-decent defence.

[Dribble Joy]

He said 'kinda' like apu, as in along the same lines.

Spies can reach defences sans inq armour that is not to be sniffed at. No, it's not PE lvl, and like hell it shouldn't be.

Lowering the current duranit/inq armour reqs won't solve anything, it will just make spies the bastard children of PEs. Keep some uniqueness to the class.

I say increase the top two wepons the spies can use to 116 dex and more (keep the capping lvls the same if possible) taking them away from the PEs

Make the SH tl125, increase the tl of the commando, make the dizzy tl 118, the slasher 121 and the exec 119, proper spy guns.

[Omnituens]

cap reqs are linked to Tl so you cant increase TL without needing higher R-C/WPL

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by athon
Spies aren't supposed to have good defense. They are kinda like APUs - they are supposed to have good offense. Athon Solo

and yet APU's have psi based armour...

this dex armour wouldnt be expected to make spies unbeatable... but IMO they do deserve it.

of course im not about to crusade for it... and i realise it would have to be done carefully to keep "balance" (hate that word)

Junkie

[Cytaur]

tarded idea

only dex armor should exist is gloves....


DEATH TO TANK PA WANNABE'S

[Jesterthegreat]

Originally posted by Cytaur
DEATH TO TANK PA WANNABE'S

"I'm a tank and no one else should use a gun or wear armour! Spies live to sit in <insert sector> and make me weapons and research my rares"

[steweygrrr]

Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
"I'm a tank and no one else should use a gun or wear armour! Spies live to sit in <insert sector> and make me weapons and research my rares"

Agreed. That kind of mentality has to go.

However there is still the issue of a Spies defence. Granted they aren't supposed to be the immovable bastions that tanks are but they at least need to be able to stand a chance in close range PvP like everyone else. Especially the pistol spies.

And with regards to the 'Psis have their own armour so why cant we' bandwagon I have 2 answers, one of which is rp and one of which is pure and simple game mechanics. First the mechanics. Monks get monk armour because of their lack in strength. Thats it. With some implant setups you end up with less than 15 STR.

The RP answer to the PSI requirement on Monk armour is that a certain amount of mental energy is required to charge the enchantments worked into the armour.

[Heavyporker]

Not to mention even though "monk armor" is PSI req'ed, other classes can still wear the lower level ones - its just straight PSI, no class req.

Slapping "class-only" on stuff only makes things worse. At least let there be the POSSIBLITY of other classes wear the armor or items.

[~Drav~]

Originally posted by Heavyporker
Not to mention even though "monk armor" is PSI req'ed, other classes can still wear the lower level ones - its just straight PSI, no class req.

Slapping "class-only" on stuff only makes things worse. At least let there be the POSSIBLITY of other classes wear the armor or items.

the problem with that is that PEs can imp to get to 100+ dex... meaning they would get the full set of armour plus their better buffs, con and self cast shelter :o

[Prodigious]

you just said PE's can use your weapons, so role a PE, go construct or summit,

The whole balance of NC is based in classes having more dex/less dex, more str/less str.

spy arent fighters end of, you want to hunt wb's keep your distance, want to pvp solo or mob hunt solo, role a PE, want to pvp in teams, get a monk or tank.

spys arent meant to be fighters at the end of the day, but they do look the coolest of any class.

PE's dont have their own armour at all, they have access to lower tank armour as you said, and lower psi armour, so if a dex line was created, you would have to leave it open to all classes anyway, meaning tanks can wear some to an extent to.

its all about specialization in this game and if u give spys dex armour u mite aswell give tanks str based psi spells

hell give monks intelligence based shoulder cannons??

[Dribble Joy]

Mong.

Spies are fighters, they are supposed to be the extreme end of the defence/offence ratio spectrum.

Unfortunately the dmg they do is not quite enough.

[~Drav~]

Originally posted by Prodigious
you just said PE's can use your weapons, so role a PE, go construct or summit

PE's can constuct EASILY

If spy's arent meant to be fighters then why the fuck do they have 100 dex. Dont say to repair, thats bullshit, base 100 repairs more then enough what with gloves and buffs. PE's have it easy, Spy's are fighters, their meant to be weak, HOWEVER to get a semi respectable defence they HAVE to give up 3 implant slots, 2 brain and their spine. What would a PE do if you had to give up 3 imp slots to use something low like a lib... thats practically the same difference, first level lowest TL bugged rare, or level 1 armour. look at the duranit range, the top ones give like 16 energy per part or somethin really low, still its better then what a spy normally has access to. I play a pistol PE, No drugs, blacksun and lib. I play a pistol spy aswell on saturn, for me to gimp my implant setup enough to put on his inq 1setup atm I cant use heavy belts due to losing INT after lomming some, plus the PA, Zerk etc taking from INT. Also THE BACKBONE that i HAVE to wear to use full inq 1 TAKES AWAY DEX ! thats just retarded.

Hows about this. You roll a spy, a pistol spy, and see just how much of a fucking difference it is between a pistol spy and pistol PE

A pistol PE, can get better defence then a tank any day (Talkin solo, not PPU support but constant PPU supports for pansies :p) A pistol PE can take PSI Use AND OP hacking under INT and still have enough lore to cap ROF on his pistols. If the pistol PE decides to sacrafice the proto resistor and go for DEX imps etc they can easily access the higher end pistols with 1-2 drugs

Your argument of rolling a pistol PE justifys itself in my opinion, your practically admitting that spys are near to useless in close up combat, nothing other then a annoying brat that stealths around then goes to plaza one and researches and builds shit for you...

[steweygrrr]

Originally posted by ~Drav~
PE's can constuct EASILY

If spy's arent meant to be fighters then why the fuck do they have 100 dex..... I play a pistol PE, No drugs, blacksun and lib. I play a pistol spy aswell on saturn, for me to gimp my implant setup enough to put on his inq 1setup atm I cant use heavy belts due to losing INT after lomming some, plus the PA, Zerk etc taking from INT. Also THE BACKBONE that i HAVE to wear to use full inq 1 TAKES AWAY DEX ! thats just retarded.

Hows about this. You roll a spy, a pistol spy, and see just how much of a fucking difference it is between a pistol spy and pistol PE

A pistol PE, can get better defence then a tank any day (Talkin solo, not PPU support but constant PPU supports for pansies :p) A pistol PE can take PSI Use AND OP hacking under INT and still have enough lore to cap ROF on his pistols. If the pistol PE decides to sacrafice the proto resistor and go for DEX imps etc they can easily access the higher end pistols with 1-2 drugs

Your argument of rolling a pistol PE justifys itself in my opinion, your practically admitting that spys are near to useless in close up combat, nothing other then a annoying brat that stealths around then goes to plaza one and researches and builds shit for you...

Well said!!!

PEs can be better than average CSTers if they dont mind being slightly gimped in the ROF department. And go pistol. Having played a pistol spy I can say yes, they are damn hard to play....but then again if you play them right you can be an amazingly effective fighter.