View Full Version : When will Smart Cyber Eyes be INT-req'ed?
Heavyporker
26-03-04, 23:18
AS title says.
Why should they be in DEX? The name - "smart", the bonus - + INT and + INT subskill. Heck, even patch notes say the eyes are gonna add +hack, ANOTHER INT subskill!
Why not just make the Cyber Eyes 2 and 3 (and four, I suppose) then leave them under DEX? I'm talking about plain-jane Cyber.
Well, the problem with that is if the number requirement remains the same, it means it will only be useable by spies and monks, as opposed to only spies, PEs, and some tanks. They could make it so the INT requirement is lower so PEs, spies, and monks could all use it, and leave out tank usage which is how it should be.
Make it so the INT requirement is 60 or something.
grrrrr
i posted this in the brain port AGES ago
*goes and finds it*
HERE (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88233)
Nah. Make them have equal int reqs to the current dex reqs. No PE in his right mind is using a cybereye anyways. And a tank? lol.
I think the smart cybereyes are aimed at spies and PEs rather than monks. I can't really imagine a cybereye providing much realistic use for a monk, but they would end up being used to make heavy belts more accessible. That leads to people thinking that monk INT isn't a problem because heavy belts are usable with lower INT and a smart cybereye. Thus the problem won't be rectified. Also it takes the higher level cybereyes away from PEs, I would say PEs could make better use of them than monks. So I say keep them as DEX.
A PE using a cybereye? A rifle or pistol eye gives +15 to their main combat skill which is always over 100. And they take away hc and melee, so are useless for non cookie PEs and tanks. So I say again, what PE in their right mind would use a cybereye?
One that might need an extra boost to hacking and tech combat (i.e. stealthers).
Originally posted by Glok
A PE using a cybereye? A rifle or pistol eye gives +15 to their main combat skill which is always over 100. And they take away hc and melee, so are useless for non cookie PEs and tanks. So I say again, what PE in their right mind would use a cybereye?
That's a problem with the bonuses on the eyes themselves, and it needs changing (which has been mentioned elsewhere). It's only use to a monk is the INT bonus, so by that logic they would be aimed at nobody except monks. In that case they may as well give psi bonuses as well. And then they're not really cybereyes, but psi eyes.
Some monks hack too. If the eyes get a hack bonus, that would be beneficial. Also, there are tons of implants that are used purely for mainskill boostage. What's wrong with a monk using a cybereye for an int boost?
edit: Oh yeah, and constructor spies can use them too for the small construct boost by way of more int.
Please oh please make it int and give it + hack. Would be awesome. Though it sucks it gives - MC. :( Oh well, would mean the end to my uber PPU batting.
Originally posted by Glok
Some monks hack too. If the eyes get a hack bonus, that would be beneficial. Also, there are tons of implants that are used purely for mainskill boostage. What's wrong with a monk using a cybereye for an int boost?
Like I said above. For a start, it covers up the fact that monk INT needs boosting. Give monks Smart Cybereye 4 and that will get overlooked. Second, it's supposed to be an alternative line for spies and PEs. Currently the bonuses don't add up and the combat eyes are worth more points, I think that's reason to change them so they become viable alternative implants rather than reason to move them over to another class. It's like saying bez chips aren't much use to tanks so give them to spies instead.
Huh? Bez chips are immensely useful to tanks. wtf.
On the other hand, yes the cybereyes are borked and the boni just don't add up. I don't see what's wrong with having an eye line that is useful for spies and monks though. It's not like monks have a huge choice in eye imps.
Originally posted by Glok
Huh? Bez chips are immensely useful to tanks. wtf.
On the other hand, yes the cybereyes are borked and the boni just don't add up. I don't see what's wrong with having an eye line that is useful for spies and monks though. It's not like monks have a huge choice in eye imps.
A Bez chip useful to a tank?? Have you played one recently? You get +5 str. Whoop de doo, as if we didn't have enough of that already. Moveon, Herc, PPR, Marine, is best way to get a reasonable amount of H-C since there are no eyes for tanks, and there's no H-C equivalent to distance weapon/psi attack/psi defence/melee xp mem. Without a Herc, AMC3 gives the best points return, worth far more than the bez chip. Bez 3's only value is to get PA3 on. And you can drug for that, while using the AMC3 for a worthwhile points boost. A Melee tank gets more than enough M-C from his base points alone. Again, AMC3 is far superior because it leads to better resists/HP, whereas Bez gives M-C which is already capped and STR which isn't needed.
Anyway that's besides the point. The point is, you're taking an implant which is aimed at one class but borked, and saying the bonus is useful to another, so instead of making it suit its original purpose and benefit the target class, we move it to another class instead, which doesn't really need it in the first place.
Monks get their own psi combat eye? Fine by me. But why take smart cybereyes away from PEs instead of making them worthwhile alternative implants?
Remember though, tanks get a strength booster backbone that gives 15 heavy combat though. No other class gets a backbone that boosts combat skills.
I'd still like a heavy combat eye nonetheless though.
I'm tired of arguing with you. Just do something with the cybereyes then, I don't care. And yes, give monks an eye! We already have to use the shittiest bones and spines.
you mean people are actually using smart cyber eyes ?? o_O
only the monks, Smart cyber eye 1.
took me ages to get one on saturn, then i just mass produced them for my clanmates now every monk and their (monk) mother has one.
Heavyporker
27-03-04, 08:34
Even with smart-eyes being changed over to INT, the level 2 and presumably 3s will be usable to PEs as well (since a couple of DEX chips give +INT along with their +DEX) so PEs wouldn't be left out cold, really. Even level 4s wouldn't be out of a PE's reach (especially to a Hacker or Tradeskill PE because of hack imps, adv nerves spine, SS/Hawkins, and Neural Advancement imps)
There's just no real arguement against Smart-eyes being INT-req'ed.
PE use a hawkins? at 95 INT? :wtf:
Heavyporker
27-03-04, 10:48
doh, forgot that 95 INT req. well.. with smart 4, hawkins, adv spine, neural adv, cst skill chip, and prolly a drug or two, you might make it up there.
Why should they be in DEX? The name - "smart", the bonus - + INT and + INT subskill. Heck, even patch notes say the eyes are gonna add +hack, ANOTHER INT subskill!
I use SCEs on my characters when building/leveling them. Having an SCE be DEX-based but INT-giving allows the stupid classes (PEs, Tanks) to reach INT levels that allow them to use items they either can't without or allows them to use items earlier than without.
I used an SCE on my HC PE. Why? Because after a certain point, one caps damage on vehicle weapons, and that point's below what I get from having most of my STR in HC and having a MOVEON and Hardened 2 installed. Plus, it gave me the INT I need to use a Heavy Assault Scorpion Trike earlier than without (remember, that requires 45 INT and if you start HC, it's harder to level INT).
I used them on my Spy a long time ago when still leveling his INT. Gave me the boost I needed for Heavy belts and for Obliterator (both INT and TC), allowing me to use them ahead of when I could normally use each item.
A PE using a cybereye? A rifle or pistol eye gives +15 to their main combat skill which is always over 100. And they take away hc and melee, so are useless for non cookie PEs and tanks. So I say again, what PE in their right mind would use a cybereye?
I do, all the time. Allows me to boost INT to use my implanting glove which I'm 10 levels away from (without shrooms I can't put the glove on). It also allowed me to use a Heavy Assault Scorpion Trike earlier than without. And I expect I'll be swapping back and forth between an SCE4 and a PC3 once I'm capped, if I decide I want to use Stealth.
Instead of whining about yet another implant the Monks are restricted from using, why don't you ask for Psi Eyes instead. Make three different types, a PPU/PSU, an APU/PSU, and one that gives INT, MST, and PSU. Problem solved.
The SCE series are great implants because they're DIFFERENT. Leave them alone. Ask for better Psi and Tank imps instead (I'm sorry, but one line of STR CPU imps is lame if you ask me, especially when they don't give HC).
Doh....... NO don't make it possible for monks to wear cybereyes
give us our own fucking imps.......We allways have to have other peoples cast offs there are rifle eyes pistol eyes droner eyes melee eyes why can't we have a psi eye. somthing that adds to range hmmm bet people won't like that hey !
Clownst0pper
27-03-04, 13:14
Maybe if u rated this thread, and got some stars going it might be noticed by the big KK:p
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Maybe if u rated this thread, and got some stars going it might be noticed by the big KK:p
whatever. never works.
SCEs are a good choice for those PEs that decide to go for Stealth II.
I might not be a sane PE, but the eye is still useful for some PE setups. What I would like is this semi-rare implant becoming more useful compared with the store bought level 3 eyes.
Heavyporker
27-03-04, 20:43
Now that's just piss poor. Spies would NOT have any problems using SCEs requiring INT or DEX. GenTanks still have some options for more INT, and remember, it's supposed to be HARD for gentanks to even get any intelligence, its hardwired in. PEs would still be able to use at least SCE 2, and there's still brain and spine imps if you wish for more INT beyond what SCEs give. And I take offense at you saying this is whining. The SCEs are clearly supposed to be in INT. I didn't even go off on a tangent on how monks are supposed to be able to use SCEs. Putting SCEs in INT where they are supposed to be, and having Monks, which is one of the two MOST INTELLIGENT classes in Neocron, able to use SCEs, is merely a fringe benefit, however great it turns out.
And I've been over the issue of PSI eyes - no fucking APU/PPU - just straight + PSI, + MST, and +PSU.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Now that's just piss poor. Spies would NOT have any problems using SCEs requiring INT or DEX. GenTanks still have some options for more INT, and remember, it's supposed to be HARD for gentanks to even get any intelligence, its hardwired in. PEs would still be able to use at least SCE 2, and there's still brain and spine imps if you wish for more INT beyond what SCEs give. And I take offense at you saying this is whining. The SCEs are clearly supposed to be in INT. I didn't even go off on a tangent on how monks are supposed to be able to use SCEs. Putting SCEs in INT where they are supposed to be, and having Monks, which is one of the two MOST INTELLIGENT classes in Neocron, able to use SCEs, is merely a fringe benefit, however great it turns out.
And I've been over the issue of PSI eyes - no fucking APU/PPU - just straight + PSI, + MST, and +PSU.
give this guy a medal. i agree with it all.
especially the psi eyes... none with A/PPU. i like that idea, because that way they are still viable for me ^_^
Sorry porker but frankly I disagree. I think cybereyes are meant to be alternatives to rifle, pistol, and drone combat eyes. Rifle and pistol eyes are aimed at both PEs and spies.
What exactly does moving cybereyes to INT achieve?
It means levelling spies have to wait longer to use them, because a levelling spy focuses on increasing his DEX through implants, not his INT. It means PEs no longer have access to the higher versions of them, and they give skills PEs are interested in - hacking, weapon lore, tech combat. Weapon lore and tech combat are skills supplementary to DEX-based weaponry, that is why cybereyes are DEX based imps. Changing them means monks suddenly have easier access to heavy belts, they should get this by having their INT gain rate increased and making cybereyes INT based will mask this. We still don't know exactly how these Wisdom of Ceres skills will work. They may require a char to be fully capped, in which case every monk in the game will hate you because INT gain rate will have been covered up. The same goes if there are 2 WoC skills for each class, one for each primary skill.
I simply can't see why you think they should be taken away from PEs, who could use those subskills and would if they were boosted slightly, and instead give them to monks, who don't need T-C or weapon lore, most don't need the hacking either. A cybernetic eye implant doesn't sound like something a monk would want to me, especially being that monks are actually physically almost blind anyway.
Also moving cybereyes to INT will essentially make them monk eyes. At which point you'll be hard pressed to get psi eyes. So in one swift manuevre you effectively eliminate the chances of a monk INT XP increase, psi eyes, and isolate the imp from levelling spies and PEs.
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