View Full Version : Please lower TH defenses
Yesterday a bunch of us BD were bored so we decided to raid TH. Using intel (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94703) provided by Archeus we were able to some what work out a plan of attack. I'll basically give a quick overview of the raid and then say what I think needs to be changed.
We met at the south entrance TH1, basically thats the only option. Once being FA myself I know how deserted TH3 is. Also from Archeus' info its obvious that trying to go into TH2 is a deah trap. So TH1 it was.
But heres a problem, the grav lifts dont work. The only way you can go down is drop. That presents the obvious problem of not being able to get back up. So unless you have a TH1 apartment, you will die. As I told every one who went, we are going to raid TH to win, we are going to raid TH to kill as many people as we can before we die. Death was inevitable.
It started good. We started out just killing the turrets but then after several minutes of shooting and me telling them they spawn back in like 150 seconds, we just proceeded to the long hall way in TH1. No turrets, awesome. No people, buhu. So we sort of got spread out. We had about 10 people (we had to split into two teams we had so many people which sucked for reasons I'll mention later). We couldnt fight near the TH1 apartments because of the clipping bug. We got really spread out, a couple guys died by turrets (some more than once :p).
FA finally mustered a defence which was good on their part. Many of us were down, I was actually rezzing some one when they defended. They came from both sides and we stood little chance. I was the last one alive and I just went around collecting every ones belts. I got every single one in my team but unfortunately the other team lost all their belts (including a 4 slotted Holy Antibuff :().
As a PPU it takes a lot of balls to go some where knowing for a fact you will drop something. The fight was definitely fun, but not fun enough to risk certain death.
Ironically increasing the defenses of TH has made large groups raiding TH virtually impossible. It is now ideal for small groups. A PPU/tank, or a lone stealther.
I don't want no defenses of TH, Im not calling for the removal of turrets in TH or anything. But lets compare TH to say PP. Im BD, and the TS guards can definitely bite me hard, but its still feasible to fight in PP1. I mean in TH you have no warning turrets blasting the hell out of you. (The health jump bug is a particular bitch with the turrets too).
So here is a poll for everyone. I'm making every option I can think of. I'm voting for less turrets strength.
Oh and PLEASE open up the grav lift in TH1, why is it closed anyways?
voted to lower power of turrets not remove completely agree with u jest we had a faction event and decided to raid th everyone died including me even our FC died and re died after rez turrets are stupidly overpowered and FA dance round them like they are good to use turrets. Give everywhere turrets and kill pvp!!
The grav lift and the secondary TH1 entrance/exit (the one with the huge ladders) need to be opened. I have no idea why in the hell they're closed and it seems to serve no purpose but to be annoying.
As for lowering TH's defenses, no. I'm not playing this game to be a guard, and TH is our home so we have a right to have an effective set of defenses to feel relatively safe. If you want to PvP, go elsewhere. I think my right to feel safe in my homeland has priority over an enemy faction's raiding fun factor.
Gah just thought of an option. Keep turret strength the same but change spawn time to like 10 minutes. That might be good. Would make the larger raids more realistic.
YES!!!!!!!!
we got enough FA`s to defend teh place now... not like it was back then with 1 small fa clan...
if id be an FA i would have asked for em removed myself.. arent you gettin bored in your fortress?
o_O
Clownst0pper
25-03-04, 19:31
Hmm, I enjoy being comfortable knowing im safe, but I would like it to be 'possible' as really, it stops any sense of roleplay.
But then again, most of saturns idea of roleplay is ganking those who are trying to enjoy the game who arent able to defend themselves.
if id be an FA i would have asked for em removed myself.. arent you gettin bored in your fortress?
I don't go to TH to PvP. That's not what its there for.
Well you can tell from the poster of this thread... a BD... that he clearly cant be a BD on Saturn. ;)
Originally posted by Lanigav
I don't go to TH to PvP. That's not what its there for.
Yea but its also not a carebear paradise.
Why dont you accept a middleway?
Because I deserve to have at least one place related to my faction where I can be safe. For me there is no compromise on this issue. My right to a safe and secure home far outweigh's other players PvP "shits and giggles" in my view.
If the defenses are weakened I'm changing factions and never looking back. I DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME TO BE A FUCKING GUARD.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Because I deserve to have at least one place related to my faction where I can be safe. For me there is no compromise on this issue. My safety far outweigh's other players PvP "shits and giggles" in my view.
If the defenses are weakened I'm changing factions and never looking back. I DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME TO BE A FUCKING GUARD.
If you want a place to be safe you shouldnt have picked a faction listed as being for experienced players...
I think the defence should be lowerd and longer respawn times on the bots.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Because I deserve to have at least one place related to my faction where I can be safe. For me there is no compromise on this issue. My safety far outweigh's other players PvP "shits and giggles" in my view.
If the defenses are weakened I'm changing factions and never looking back. I do NOT PLAY THIS GAME TO BE A FUCKING GUARD.
yes i dont play this game to stand in p1 all day kthx
look what about you make th 3 or 1 ( the one with the traders in it.. cant remember which one it is ) full of turrets .. but you leave the other 2 secs with very lil turrets that still noone can go there solo but a 3 people team has a chance... ?
also you shouldnt have picked FA then... it said experienced players needed.... :rolleyes:
Its listed like that because its harder for newbie playerse, not harder in general. Stop using that as an excuse.
yes i dont play this game to stand in p1 all day kthx
That's what the entire outworld and its large selection of ops are for. I realize that BD has this urge to dominate everything now that they own every op on the map, but it has to stop somewhere.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Its listed like that because its harder for newbie playerse, not harder in general. Stop using that as an excuse.
And it says that where?
Originally posted by Lanigav
Its listed like that because its harder for newbie playerse, not harder in general. Stop using that as an excuse.
show me the official statement where they said that...YOU are the one using cheap excuses here
it says experienced players and that means players who played the game before and therefore can deal with no or little protection
.
No, it's a harder faction all together. If you don't want to fight then run away !1!1!!1! Or become a stealth whore or something, just because you alone don't want to pvp doesn't mean that other people in your faction and in other factions don't either.
Lan I didn't make the suggestion because I want to camp TH 24/7 and constantly ruin peoples fun at the benefit of my own. I've been FA for half of retail, I know what its like. Part of the reason I left FA in fact is because of the increased defenses. There was very little for me to do.
I'm all for creating protective pockets of high defense inside TH. The faction HQ, the hall of vendors in TH3, the circle in TH2, all good places to create high defense where FA can be safe and dont have to constantly watch their back.
Btw Lan I'm on Pluto. We dont dominate the map. We have at the most like 5 ops, but often we have none. I agree the situation on Saturn has some problems but that has nothing to do with this thread.
Granted it doesn't state that specifically, but it also doesn't say anything about being subject to constant raids by enemy factions simply because they're bored. IMO that's the implied meaning.
Tech Haven was not put there for your amusement.
And Jest, I'm on Saturn where BD literally owns every single op on the map and basically dominates every element of the game. Its becoming increasingly difficult to go anywhere in the outworld without being attacked by a BD, and I think its unfair that I can't even be safe in my own home.
Sure, there are those like you who want things to be done in moderation, but there are also those who would like it to become a giant killing zone.
Its my opinion that a faction's HQ should have the best defenses it can afford, especially since this is a "dangerous cyperpunk world", and that its unfair to sacrifice my one bastion of safety (which still isn't all that safe thanks to neutral faction pking which the turrets don't respond to) just because some people are bored with the rest of the map.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Tech Haven was not put there for your amusement.
yes thats right but when do you start to realise that its not there to be a carebear paradise ?!
/€ made it clearer :p
/€2
Originally posted by Possessed
No, it's a harder faction all together. If you don't want to fight then run away !1!1!!1! Or become a stealth whore or something, just because you alone don't want to pvp doesn't mean that other people in your faction and in other factions don't either.
amen
Originally posted by Lanigav
Granted it doesn't state that specifically, but it also doesn't say anything about being subject to constant raids by enemy factions simply because they're bored. IMO that's the implied meaning.
Tech Haven was not put there for your amusement. Its not just bored, its beneficial to roleplay. One reason I want to hunt in TH is because I have a few FA bounties I'd like to collect on. Defending ones territory, war between factions outside of op wars, all great stuff.
Yeah, I'm such a carebear for wanting my home to be safe.
The fact remains that I do not play this game to be a faction guard. I want to be able to do things outside of Tech Haven without being constantly called on to defend it. If the defenses are lowered and it becomes another raiding heaven, expect to see FA's numbers drop sharply again because its simply not fun to have to defend your home every time you're playing the game.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Yeah, I'm such a carebear for wanting my home to be safe.
The fact remains that I do not play this game to be a faction guard. I want to be able to do things outside of Tech Haven without being constantly called on to defend it. If the defenses are lowered and it becomes another raiding heaven, expect to see FA's numbers drop sharply again because its simply not fun to have to defend your home every time you're playing the game.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
noone forces you to defend TH....there are enough FA clans right now ( at least on pluto ) to defend it.
also whats up with TG ? its still raidable ( also too hard but its at least still possible with a small team ) and noone is crying or leaving because of it...whats so different about FA`s and TG`s that you think FA as a faction would die because of a few raids ?
/€ yep as cannings said... same with the mercs
Originally posted by Lanigav
Its listed like that because its harder for newbie playerse, not harder in general. Stop using that as an excuse.
Umm it says recommended for experienced players. It doesn't say it's harder for new players, it says experienced players meaning players that are experienced. So stop saying that it's not a valid excuse for saying it's a harder faction to play becasue it is.
and CM when i was CM we got raided daily and dealt with it daily
I pvp in pp, op wars, raids, exc because I'm bored. Why isn't that a good enough reason? What else should a capped pvp based character be doing?
I wish all guards would go back to being weak. The players of this game should be the most powerful. Let players defend themselves. TG, Faction HQs, Copbots, TH, many things have been carebeared beyond playable. 95% of the server doesn't like these changes...
Also respawn time should be around an hour.
;)
Stop being so close minded into thinking that the situation on Pluto is the same on all servers. On Saturn, ONE FACTION OWNS EVERY SINGLE OP ON THE MAP, and that faction is FA's biggest enemy.
And I'm the biggest carebear you've ever seen just because I want my home to be safe? Do you have any knowledge of my or my characters? My PKing record? The amount of times I've fought in op wars to try and shift the horribly unbalanced power Saturn has? Don't talk shit without actually knowing anything about me. The fact that you call someone a "carebear" just because they're not a pking warmongerer just makes you look foolish.
I give up. With each day this game is slowly turning more and more into a Counterstrike clone with that "other stuff" thanks to the "PvP or nothing" mentality that manifests itself from bored and/or selfish players. Your enjoyment is all that matters, and I apologize deeply for wanting to have a little fun myself. Your needs are what's important, not mine.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Stop being so close minded into thinking that the situation on Pluto is the same on all servers. On Saturn, ONE FACTION OWNS EVERY SINGLE OP ON THE MAP, and that faction is FA's biggest enemy.
Don't assume that the balance on the other servers is the same on saturn :rolleyes: Just because Saturn is screwed doesn't mean that the other servers have to suffer because your faction is not able to deal with the current situation on your server.
enigma_b17
25-03-04, 20:26
Originally posted by Lanigav
Yeah, I'm such a carebear for wanting my home to be safe.
The fact remains that I do not play this game to be a faction guard. I want to be able to do things outside of Tech Haven without being constantly called on to defend it. If the defenses are lowered and it becomes another raiding heaven, expect to see FA's numbers drop sharply again because its simply not fun to have to defend your home every time you're playing the game.
^^ what lan said
under no circumstances will tech havens defences be removed, before them fas numbers were dropping so fast that within a month wed gone from a medium sized faction to virtually nothing, now as ppl arent constantly being called on to act as turrets to defend their home our numbers are growing again, if the turrets go again there will be a huge drop out (saturn btw dont know situation on other servers but i assume it was something similar).
Tbh I'd want only players to defend their homes but with the current player base thats just not possible. It'd be ideal, but just not feasible.
I'm not one sided on this issue. I'd like every one to be raidable, including Plaza and Via Rosso areas. I know first hand how much it sucks to have TH raided and then want to do some blow back but having no where to do it at because most people are in safe zones.
Along with TH lowered defenses I'd like to see TG and CM the same, along with CA enemies shot on site in Plaza and Via Rosso, andthe removal of safe zones except for a few key areas. I only mention TH because its sort of the beacon of raidable zones even though its probably the hardest as is. Id be more than happy to be forced into PP2 with having to defend my territory from attacking FA. :p
Clownst0pper
25-03-04, 20:30
Jest with TG and TH being turned into OP's its most likely they will be altered in some form, with hacknet giving the ability to override the turrets ?
W8 and see :angel:
I couldnt realy care for th defences since there is nothing to kill but n00bs cuz all high lvl ppl never lvl or hang out there....:o
Voted no tho, I remeber old th with no defence and camping 24/7
witch made imposible for lower ppl to lvl .....
And with Doy they gonna be op's anyway am sure they change it then.
enigma_b17
25-03-04, 20:36
"Jest with TG and TH being turned into OP's its most likely they will be altered in some form, with hacknet giving the ability to override the turrets ?"
that isnt definate, i personally dont c why tech haven should get moved into doy, tech haven is my home fa should stay there
Originally posted by Lanigav
Stop being so close minded into thinking that the situation on Pluto is the same on all servers. On Saturn, ONE FACTION OWNS EVERY SINGLE OP ON THE MAP, and that faction is FA's biggest enemy.
And I'm the biggest carebear you've ever seen just because I want my home to be safe? Do you have any knowledge of my or my characters? My PKing record? The amount of times I've fought in op wars to try and shift the horribly unbalanced power Saturn has? Don't talk shit without actually knowing anything about me. The fact that you call someone a "carebear" just because they're not a pking warmongerer just makes you look foolish.
I give up. With each day this game is slowly turning more and more into a Counterstrike clone with that "other stuff" thanks to the "PvP or nothing" mentality that manifests itself from bored and/or selfish players. Your enjoyment is all that matters, and I apologize deeply for wanting to have a little fun myself. Your needs are what's important, not mine.
accepted... bye
jest maybe we should open a poll for pluto only?
if saturn is really that fubared.. lol
why not be like everyone else Jest and go to DRE faction and become an uber FA pkar...
Originally posted by enigma_b17
"Jest with TG and TH being turned into OP's its most likely they will be altered in some form, with hacknet giving the ability to override the turrets ?"
that isnt definate, i personally dont c why tech haven should get moved into doy, tech haven is my home fa should stay there
Am pretty sure that its gonna be op was sayd in one of teh peek # 2 i think not sure...
If u want it to be er home then just take it when it becomes op and keep it ..:cool:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
saturn is really that fubared.. lol
heh play some on saturn then u c how FUBARED it is ;)
I will probably make updates to that document, as after fighting with Brammers in TH SEC2 I found more blind spots and more intresting things in relation to the turrets. I'll mention when its updated.
Things to note re your raid.
1. TH SEC1 turrets are at full strength. TH SEC1 unless you have an escape route (Apartment) or a stealther then you are trapped and will eventually die. A spy could go to TH SEC2 and pick up a key for everyone to escape.
2. I am not kidding when there are some idiots who will report you for exploiting if fighting in TH SEC1, unless you have consenus of the Angels in TH SEC1 then I would suggest you stay out of TH SEC1, or don't attack in there. At the very least stay the heck away from the apartments. The lifts were closed because of the same bug that happens at the apartments.
3. TH SEC3 has the least defenses and are weaker and it is possible to escape either the way you came in or via apartments. [edit]. While it might be empty people do go through there especially now you can buy Apts there. If you kill an Angel they all move like one, so they will all either come in force to deal with you or they will scatter until you leave.
But watching some in action Jest is right, it appears raiding TH is more suited for small teams then a huge raiding party. Up the protection on the turrets (so APUs cant drop them in seconds) and lower the respawn rate on them (10 minutes). Or a distract mind sanctum would be cool.
Yeah, I'm such a carebear for wanting my home to be safe.
I hate to break it to you but when you created your character for that faction you would see that it is for advanced players only (only non-city clan that doesn't have safe zones in thier apts). If you wanted an easier life you should of picked a city faction. It will also be worse when BDOY from what I gather. Reactor core is totally safe btw as is the center bottom area of TH SEC2. Failing that you can put your LE in (not giving out, its an option).
that isnt definate, i personally dont c why tech haven should get moved into doy, tech haven is my home fa should stay there
Looking like it will be an OP.
Originally posted by Hayato
why not be like everyone else Jest and go to DRE faction and become an uber FA pkar...
Because its a cop out. Shows no balls, and I was hitting DRE in TH as well as Angels and still surived. :p
enigma_b17
25-03-04, 21:26
aye saturn is completely fucked up atm, half the server is cartel (& templars, but since cartel absorbed most of templars theres fewer around) and the other half is trying to kill em lol
Fallen Angels is one of the factions that are clearly labeled as "Difficult." You are warned not to take this faction unless you are an experienced player and want a greater challenge. That greater challenge is primarily living in a non safe zone. Additionaly you may not have access to resources as easily as other's would.
I don't understand why Tech Haven and even the City Mercs are babied while the rest are left to fend for themselves. When pvp is too much for them to handle the angels and the mercs get npc guards to make up for it.
I live in pepper park, which the entire commmunity has agreed is where they like to fight at, regardless of it being my home. Our guards are the most obnoxious ever, most of them are the weak older guards mixed in which some new super powerful ones. Neither of them consistantly help Tsunami runners, most often they just watch you die. At worst, due to their limited range, the enemy can easily run and hide after killing you. BD has some weaker guards protecting pp2 and Crahn has super guards, but they don't protect anything outside of strictly crahn controlled buildings. Why do we get "hardcore" rules while the mercs and angels have guards to protect them. Even TG isn't very safe, sure there are lots of guards that hurt, but its easy to run and find spots where they can't see you. It's not hard to raid TG hq at all. The only difference is there is actualy a strong TG clan there to defend the place.
Why the seperation? Personaly I would rather guards were strictly used to defend headquarters and important areas. Players should be the ones defending their home turf. I don't think it's fair that the city factions get safe zones, but I can accept that since they are not "difficult" factions. I can't accept difficult factions that get privlidges over the others. Why should FA not hafta defend themselves? CM isn't as bad but consistantly in the past they've had guards spawned in answer to being overrun with pvp.
Zu (Pluto)
25-03-04, 22:19
I'm not a big fan of PvP so I can't comment too much on the relative strength of TH defenses, having never raided them (only wandering in and dropping dead in them). However, the upping of the strength of faction guards was, IMHO, a bit extreme. I don't believe there should be anywhere that is instant death for a capped runner due to the strength of the guards. Numbers, maybe, but not so you can walk round the corner and drop over dead before you know what hit you.
TH should have good defences. It should have damn good defences, especially for its "core" areas. What these cores areas should be is a subject of debate, but should include a big enough area that covers shops and apartments so FA can function as a social unit. If the turrets are tough enough to be an actual threat and you place enough of them in these core areas, then they should be fairly safe. The turrets should also respawn fast enough to keep these areas safe.
However, the rest of TH I feel should have longer respawn time for the turrets. This means it is actually possible to "control" an area. And this is not just TH - but for any area with faction guards. They shouldn't respawn so fast that they are back before you've even finished turning your back!
Wandering back on topic, I vote the turrets are weakened. I would also vote on the missing topic of longer respawn times. BUT... the core areas of TH should have more turrets to compensate for weakened turrent strength and they should continue to respawn at fast speeds. This gives a nice little area for FA defenders to regroup in, or just sit in if they want to ignore the attack. Attackers will have to make their own safe zone to regroup in. That's the disadvantage of being an attacker.
I am Pluto, btw, so I don't know first hand of the Saturn situation I hear so much about. I also see myself as a carebear as I would rather "play" the game rather than go around killing people. However, Neocron is like any other group activity, which means everyone wants something different and there has to be a certain amount of compromise for things to move forward. I feel the best solutions should allow people to play the game as they like WITHOUT forcing other people to play things "my way". Make bits of TH raidable, I say, but keep a safer "core" or make a TH Safe Zone (and give all non-City factions a Safe Zone too).
Just my thoughts...
Zu
Clownst0pper
25-03-04, 22:21
and the other half is trying to kill em lol
Its less than a quarter....
One of the most fun things i remember in the game is a raid on TG canyon long ago. We had a large force that went in and played merry hell with the npcs and TG defenders that showed up - and the defenders fought well and valiantly.
I think the same sort of thing should be possible at *all* of the primary HQ centers. Including TH and NC. I would truely love to hear sometime that a large raiding force had entered NC city and was working its way inward from, oh, say, PP2 or Via 3. Imagine the scramble to assemble defensive and counter assault forces among the pro-city clans. Could be awesome.
Yes, it should be difficult, but it should also be very possible to do ... to the extent that it happened several times a month. Would really liven things up; gives fighting clans some new goals. In fact GMs should even spawn invading strike teams of NPCs as spontaneous events.
Spook
Originally posted by Carinth
I live in pepper park, which the entire commmunity has agreed is where they like to fight at, regardless of it being my home.
Exactly. If you were a new player or a trader you would just wander over a zone and hey presto your protected. Don't want to fight anymore? Zone back to Plaza.
Something you can't do as an angel. Try removing the safe zones in Plaza then we can compare.
When the turrets weren't there every faction and PK'ers zoned in one after the other and killed anything that moved in TH. I don't want that to happen again but I would like to see planned raids where the Angels can fight back.
No Turrets set by the TH base, only by runners.
Let the TH runners set there own turrets around the TH base if they want. and when they get a kill with them they get some nc's credited to there bank account.
If it where like that, then it would realy be fun playing TH.
Also I am N.E.X.T. and I would like to be able to set turrets in the N.E.X.T. HQ, because of all the easy kill seakers comming in and taking advantage of the 4 stuck guards in the grav lifts all the time.
I hate it when an LED runners do it cuz no one can kill him while he is taking advantage of stuck the N.E.X.T. guards.
One comment: If your FA on saturn, why don't you call your 6 faction zerg to come protect your home? Or are you all too busy zerging one clan?
Anywho.
Yeah, the defense is real stupid. I mean, when the BD FC put on an event to raid TH on saturn, we went, killed some FA, and guess what? They just stood behind turrets, slowly killing the BD force. How fun!
There's almost nothing to do for the capped player base. Atleast give us SOMETHING to do.
Originally posted by Hayato
why not be like everyone else Jest and go to DRE faction and become an uber FA pkar... That unnamed clan is really pissing me off, and I'm not a roleplayer myself. They are attacking all city clans and all anti city except a TG clan we all love. Fucking twats.
Your fun is not as important as our safety. Simple as that.
Once the server populations are up, id say it was up to the faction to defend its HQ. However, Neocron doesnt have enough players to support this yet, so spose leaving it as is is ok for now.
Once there are say 25+ FA in TH at any given time, in the public areas, then id say it was up to them to defend. fun for both sides :cool:
Originally posted by Jest
FA finally mustered a defence which was good on their part. Many of us were down, I was actually rezzing some one when they defended. They came from both sides and we stood little chance. I was the last one alive and I just went around collecting every ones belts. I got every single one in my team but unfortunately the other team lost all their belts (including a 4 slotted Holy Antibuff :(). :) I thought we rushed rather well from all sides :)
Creds to me who hacked the belt, it was a 3 slot Holy Anti Buff all Artifact :)
I do feel sorry for the guy who dropped it.
I am really happy that you guys at least attempted to raid. I would have no problem with the turrets being either reduced, or the spawn rate set to something like 10 minutes.
But top marks to you guys, i have a lot of respect for you now, unlike certain other people who resort to exploiting the fact that if they switch faction they can come in and PK without threat of the Turrets.
Those guys i have little respect for at the moment.
LoL, silly discussion here.
Go ahead and lower the defence or remove it completely. Frankly I really dont care. I haven't been in TH for ages (ok, expect trips to the clan app). Most of the time I'm in TG (much better level spot). Hell, most of the FA I know made TG their new home.
So basically TH means nothing to me. It's a faction HQ like every faction HQ in Neocron: empty most of the time.
And when TH is getting raided, who cares? Me not. Caue I'm not interested in playing guards. So I'd simply ignore it.
Only idiots defend their faction HQs. That's most true on Saturn where politics is FUBAR anyway.
Psyco Groupie
26-03-04, 02:13
Just wait till canyon/th are super ops .. or atleast till doy hits
Originally posted by Archeus
2. I am not kidding when there are some idiots who will report you for exploiting if fighting in TH SEC1, unless you have consenus of the Angels in TH SEC1 then I would suggest you stay out of TH SEC1, or don't attack in there. At the very least stay the heck away from the apartments. The lifts were closed because of the same bug that happens at the apartments.
KK fixed this clipping bug near the TH 1 apts in the same patch that they broke the TH 1 lifts and changed the TH textures. FA cannot make a legitimate complaint out of PKing in sec 1 now.
Originally posted by Glok
That unnamed clan is really pissing me off, and I'm not a roleplayer myself. They are attacking all city clans and all anti city except a TG clan we all love. Fucking twats.
HAHAHA i'm so glad they aren't black dragon anymore. I can finally start enjoying the only faction I like without having n00bs fucking it up.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Granted it doesn't state that specifically, but it also doesn't say anything about being subject to constant raids by enemy factions simply because they're bored. IMO that's the implied meaning.
This is a game, i play it because im bored, if i enjoy raiding why shouldnt i be able to? You dont have to defend, noone should be forced to do anything in a game. What i find though is that those who do defend their homes do it becuase they find it fun, so if their having fun and im having fun whats the problem? If i get bored or stop having fun il leave (or im already dead :p), if the defenders get bored or stop having fun thay have the same option, they can leave. MB and TG are alot more raidable than TH, (yes its possible but not very, there are lots of ways for people to be lame and hide by turrets etc), all of the city faction hq's are raidable and yet for some reason TH the advanced faction has got more security than the rest of the faction hq's combined :wtf:
Fix TH il agree it doesnt have to be made into a pk paradise but at least make it possible, it seems stupid for kk to try and make it imposs to raid now when a few months down the line they are going to encourage it.
Psycho Killa
26-03-04, 04:39
I was a fallen angel beggining of retail.
We where raided daily by system shock.
I defended it daily while the remaining cowards of th stood around like sheep to be slaughtered.
I agree the defense before was pathetic but as it is now its rediculous.
I dont think the defense should be lowered so a single asshole can torment all of th but an army actualy stands a chance for once. I think they should respawn alot slower and in return they get a warning over faction. Th1 turret under attack etc.
If you get to "live safely" in your home why cant I be safe in pepper park 2 then? Suppose to be our territory yet its about as unsafe as can be for a dragon.
The community should police itself not game mechanics.
Shadow Dancer
26-03-04, 04:45
I think TH should have stun and gat turrets in addition to their normal defenses.
Psycho Killa
26-03-04, 04:46
I scincerely hope that was sarcasm
Though its missing your trade mark smiley.
Originally posted by garyu69
:) I thought we rushed rather well from all sides :)
Creds to me who hacked the belt, it was a 3 slot Holy Anti Buff all Artifact :)
I do feel sorry for the guy who dropped it.
I am really happy that you guys at least attempted to raid. I would have no problem with the turrets being either reduced, or the spawn rate set to something like 10 minutes.
But top marks to you guys, i have a lot of respect for you now, unlike certain other people who resort to exploiting the fact that if they switch faction they can come in and PK without threat of the Turrets.
Those guys i have little respect for at the moment.
yeah that was a good fight and to be honest, you guys easily had enough to kill us WITHOUT the turrets. It does suck though when i (as a spy) get a tank down to under half health and then I get killed by a turret. In that situation, the defenses weren't needed, FA certainly had enough to prove a deadly opposition. Besides, it breaks up the monotony a little!
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
KK fixed this clipping bug near the TH 1 apts in the same patch that they broke the TH 1 lifts and changed the TH textures. FA cannot make a legitimate complaint out of PKing in sec 1 now.
I know that, however that didn't stop some idiot reporting me and myself getting a letter from a GM to stop exploiting in TH SEC1 only a week ago when I didn't even go near the aparment block.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
The community should police itself not game mechanics.
:lol:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
The community should police itself not game mechanics. Spex that statement is true why the smilie? The only reason I'm in favor of guards period is because the game doesnt have the player count to police itself unfortunately. :(
Clownst0pper
26-03-04, 17:29
The only reason why people want the TH security lowered as it will allowed them do something else due to lack of content.
Which is pretty selfish as its down to the PKers and gankers this game has such a small shite community.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
The only reason why people want the TH security lowered as it will allowed them do something else due to lack of content.
Which is pretty selfish as its down to the PKers and gankers this game has such a small shite community.
I am currently wandering the halls of TH as we speak. they are empty. nothing to kill its depressing.
Clownst0pper
26-03-04, 18:12
Archeus quote:
I am currently wandering the halls of TH as we speak. they are empty. nothing to kill its depressing.
Thats because the reputation of being killed in TH proceeds itself, no one goes just incase, and no one is FA because they get ganked. and yes its PKers faults.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Thats because the reputation of being killed in TH proceeds itself, no one goes just incase, and no one is FA because they get ganked. and yes its PKers faults.
No because it is off season :p people are still working. TH isn't know for its massive pk'ing at the moment tbh.
Clownst0pper
26-03-04, 18:27
No because it is off season people are still working. TH isn't know for its massive pk'ing at the moment tbh
It was, and is to those on the servers.
For the new players it wont be, but honestly, how many of them do u see?
Everyone on saturn knows everyone, whether in good taste or not.
I dont see any new players joining, as 99% of saturn is alts :p
Originally posted by Lanigav
Your fun is not as important as our safety. Simple as that.
What about you? Don't you think it would be more fun to set your own turrets? And when they get a kill, you get nc creds or something?
My N.E.X.T. HQ has 4 guards in the nav lifts stuck all the time. How boring for people to come and raid, your lucky to have the action around your TH HQ Base.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
For the new players it wont be, but honestly, how many of them do u see?
New players will have thier LE in. If they don't then they will be a clan and the clan will look after them.
If super npc guards are justifyable for FA because their population is low, then please place similar guards in pp1 for Tsunami. We're currently a very small faction and can't defend our home from all of Neocron invading it. Wouldn't it be fun to walk around in pepper park without worrying about anyone attacking me? Wouldn't it.... ?
More CS guards in the Abbey and in the Church while ur at it infact i want CS monks all over oz8 not just by the abbey oh and in oz1 where the CS starter aps are i think we should have some there aswell
There should be similar guards for all factions inside their HQ (defenses outside of factions should remain effective but not uber).
What about you? Don't you think it would be more fun to set your own turrets? And when they get a kill, you get nc creds or something?
That's not a bad idea, but current OP-type turrents aren't nearly as effective as TH's turrets.
Its my opinion that no faction HQ should be raidable by a small force of anything less than 10 players. A true raid to me is getting 20-30 players together for a true assault on one's HQ, not just a few players going there to pk others.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Its my opinion that no faction HQ should be raidable by a small force of anything less than 10 players. A true raid to me is getting 20-30 players together for a true assault on one's HQ, not just a few players going there to pk others.
But whats the point in getting that many people together if when you raid you will either get minmal resistance or none at all as people wont see the point of defending thinking they'll just die?
The "theres not enough people in this game" argument works both ways.
Originally posted by Lanigav
Its my opinion that no faction HQ should be raidable by a small force of anything less than 10 players. A true raid to me is getting 20-30 players together for a true assault on one's HQ, not just a few players going there to pk others.
So you agree then that the turrets should up thier shields but lower thier respawn time?
I'd be willing to support that I suppose, so yes.
But that's provided the turrets are appropriately placed so people can't exploit wall positions and AOE them to death without taking a single shot.
And so the carebears win again.
Stay tuned next week for another boring rerun of carebears bitching and moaning!
YAAAAAAAY!!11
Originally posted by 2ply
And so the carebears win again.
Stay tuned next week for another boring rerun of carebears bitching and moaning!
YAAAAAAAY!!11
Next week on Carebear Channel;
The moaning and bitching that the PKers drove all the people away from the Fallen Angels faction after the overkill security was installed.
Originally posted by Duder
Next week on Carebear Channel;
The moaning and bitching that the PKers drove all the people away from the Fallen Angels faction after the overkill security was installed.
I'll definately tune in.
:rolleyes:
Psycho Killa
27-03-04, 00:27
I just thought of a cool new idea.
Why dont we beef up the security outside th.
Then we beef up all the other secuirty guards.
Then we make them attack eachother and sit by as we are helpless because theyre 100 times stronger then us.
WE CAN LET THE NPCS PLAY TEH GAME FOR US!!
LOL Psycho. Seriously, the security in TH is waaaayyyy overboard. I mean, 4 turrets camping each GR? 4 turrets camping both sides of the zoneline from TH2 to TH1? Ridiculous. I went FA for a while on my current monk, and when I was in TH I felt just as safe as in a safezone. That's how OTT the security is now. MAYBE 2 turrets at each GR and remove 2/3 of the rest of the turrets.
Even for small groups it is an issue. TH sec2 is covered copletely by turrets. Entering TH 2 will gurantee that you are pied odwn in a corer crouchig hoping turrets dont agg on you. There really is o safe place at all. It is really quite sad how 1) overpowered the turrets are 2-3 shot kills. and 2) how ridiculous the amount of turrets are i the building.
FA should really learn how to defed the place for them selves. If aythig atleast make the turret spawn tie much greater and reduce the amount of damage. The place is overkill.
The main issue is that FA abuses the fact that they have those turrets, just as people i pp1 abuse the TS guards. They stand ad hide behind them so other people will get killed by them and they know that. IMO that is much worse and way more grief then eign pked. Pking is part of the game. Thats why there are factions. Abusing turrets cause your faction is filled with people who would rather let an NPC do the work for them is just plain stupid. I gurantee FA knows damn well that there turrets waste everyone ad would and when they hide behind turrets they arent trying to escape being killed. They are trying to get you killed by the turrets so they can laugh and hack your belt. TH is a big fucking joke.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I just thought of a cool new idea.
Why dont we beef up the security outside th.
Then we beef up all the other secuirty guards.
Then we make them attack eachother and sit by as we are helpless because theyre 100 times stronger then us.
WE CAN LET THE NPCS PLAY TEH GAME FOR US!!
The problem there is you need to get the right balance. With populations in their current states there's no way a faction can reasonably defend their base. Also consider that TH, MB and TG are the only places that get raided, more often than not by BD who have no reason to defend their HQ. Not only is BD HQ completely pointless to raid, it's defended by flamer guards, which are just as powerful as TH turrets.
The problem is populations. If you have 40 people milling about in TH, and 50 people raid it, then 50v40 is not that much of an imbalance and the defenders could still win. With the current populations you have 3-5 people wandering around in a base when 10-20 people come running in. 20vs5 and they don't have any time to prepare whatsoever? That's why turrets and guards are necessary, and they have to hurt because they have to be able to kill PPUs. And that means they have to kill everyone else in two shots. :rolleyes:
If you have 40 people in TH and 50 raid it, thats basically the whoel server going at it right there.......
It isnt like FA is outumbered y all other factions (at least on Pluto), far from it actually. However, most FA abuse the fact that they have overpowered and overumerous turrets throughout the place.
How exactly do they abuse it? Just by being there? Don't be stupid. It can't be abused, just hidden behind.
Tell me Zeph0n, when was the last time your clan found themselves forced to all sit around guarding the Crahn Abbey in case a full enemy clan raided it? FA may outnumber their enemies, but they can't seriously be expected to spend all their time in TH on the off chance that your clan raids it. And how do they organise a defence when you do? 'Raids' these days generally end up with a large force of 20+ people camping a zone line or GR killing unbuffed newbs with synap as they come through.
Now if faction HQs were better suited, like OPs, to a large scale fight with a view to helping the defenders organise an actual defence, then you're talking. Don't turret off the entire place, but have a heavily guarded area where defenders can meet up. A secure room, where members of the owning faction GR to with no synap, which doesn't require zoning into a potentially large group of people, would support the fights we should see. Until something like that happens, the guards are needed.
Yea so when your fighitng people ad they keep zoning back ad forth so you have to keep zoning also or when they decide to keep runnig around guards so that you hit the guard rather the them thus causing the guard to kill you that ust not be abusing it. Yea your right. WTF was i thinking its defiitely not abusing at all its just playing some hide and seek. Yea ok....................
:rolleyes:
Psi vendors at CM, you have people who fight you then they decide theyd much rather run back and forth in the psi vedors instead and shoot you from there so that in the chance you shoot oen a guard goes nuts ad kills you. Or peopel who stand behind a guard when they start losing. They know full well what there doing and they definitely not thinking "let me hide behind this blunt object so I a protected from these guns" Get a fucking clue.
Originally posted by Zeph0n
Get a fucking clue. No you get a fucking clue. You Crahn folk spend all your time in P2 and P3, SAFEZONES. If you want to raid TH good for you, but at least recognise that it is an HQ, not some wasteland warzone. Get numbers, get some skills. I do think the turrets should be toned down, but you are being idiotic. As I recall, the only FA that spent any time in TH itself were tradeskillers, and they got ganked constantly. Now they don't.
FA is hardly a bunch of tradeskillers anymore. Some clans like Neph, EXO, and the skull cult are trying to make names for themselves on the map for FA. Unlike other FA they are at least doig shit for their faction. And how does Crahn always spend their time in safezones. For my clan itself I can say only downtime is spent in P2 and we dont always get a lot of dowtime as we fight a lot of clans. Secondly Crahn does not have an HQ early as useful as TH is to FA where aps and shops are cetered aroudn it so we kind of need to go to places liek plaza to get things done. Dont kid yourself. We tried a 20 man attack on TH as per AN EVENT and the event was a complete mess because even the GM helping with it was trying to despawn the turrets for us as we were completely pinned down and constantly having to res non stop. The event was completely trashed ad shouldnt even be called an event as all it ended up being was a small group leftover tryig to keep themselevs alive as logn as possible. Im sorry but thats nto an issue of get soem skills, thats complete overkill. Even our FC was suprised how bad it was in TH. It may have been an issue previously, but ow FA actually has fighters rather then a full force of tradeskill clans. Maybe rather then depending on turrets a get some skills remark should e tossed to FA instead........
At least soem FA clans are tryig to make a difference in their factions. props to them.
Hey I agree the turrets are total overkill, I said so earlier in this thread and offered a compromise. Maybe also make the turrets 100/100 instead of 120/120.
Originally posted by Zeph0n
Even for small groups it is an issue. TH sec2 is covered copletely by turrets. Entering TH 2 will gurantee that you are pied odwn in a corer crouchig hoping turrets dont agg on you. There really is o safe place at all.
For a small group this is true, however for 1 to 2 people TH SEC2 is quite fightable and there are loads of blind spots. However the place only allows hit and run based attacks. I've killed about 14 to date, the majority of them thought they were safe standing in a pile of turrets.
You Crahn folk spend all your time in P2 and P3, SAFEZONES.
I'm only in a safe zone if I am getting poked after dying or I need to go take a pee (I normally log then).
While being in those blindspots, however, there is going to be a limit to the number of runners you can fight without going into a turret's sight. Sure you can stand in those blindspots with 2 people, but in the chance that even 3 FA come you'll have a hard time considering they could always run to a turrets protection while you have none. Granted that is how it should be when your raiding, but the turrets as they are now in numbers and in power is way more then ever needed. It is a bit too ridiculous.
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