View Full Version : Does weapon class affect damage?
In other words, do heavy weapons do more damage than rifles simply because they are heavy? Do rifles do more damage than pistols simply because they are rifles?
I can't say for sure, but I suspect the answer is no. Weapons do damage based on their tech level and this seems logical. After all, the higher the TL of the weapon, the more difficult it is for a player to cap the stats on it and the less flexibility they have in building their character. Again, this makes perfect sense.
If this is true, then why does one class of weapon slow a player down more than another? What is the logic behind that? For example, if a pistol spy duels a rifle spy and both have the exact same skill level, character build, and TL weapon, the pistol spy will have an inherent speed advantage simply because he is using a pistol. Similarly, the pistol PE has an advantage over a rifle PE--all other factors being equal. I don't understand why.
Psycho Killa
24-03-04, 09:09
Uh yes yes it does.
ResurgencE
24-03-04, 09:43
If this is true, then why does one class of weapon slow a player down more than another? What is the logic behind that?
The logic behind that would be that even in reality, a beretta weighs less than a bazooka?
In real life it would be easier to run around with a pistol shooting than trying to run around using a rifle.
The weight of the different types of weapons have an effect
Erm ... okay, i am confused ... then why would anyone ever bother to use a Heavy Weapon?
If a TL xxx Pistol does the same damage as a TL xxx Heavy Weapon (and also a TL xxx Rifle), then why not go pistol so it does not slow you down as much when you have it drawn?
In other words, the choice becomes Rifles for long range, Pistols for close range, and either for somewhere in between. With no meaningful reason to ever go with Heavy Weapons at all because there is no advantage in damage and they encumber you more than the other weapon types.
What am i missing here? Guess it could be that the TL for Heavy Weapons goes higher than that of Pistols so there *is* a damage advantage for the best ones? Or what???
Spook
Well ingame atm damage is sorta pants
Best ->Worst
APU - Heavy - Pistols - Melee - Rifles (imho)
It should do, and it certainly will when Lupus' weapon changes are finished.
Currently it sorta does, but there have been so many underpowered weapons receiving boosts that everything is now out of whack.
Originally posted by ResurgencE
The logic behind that would be that even in reality, a beretta weighs less than a bazooka?
yea sure youre right, however in reality a bazooka can cripple a tank....can a pistol?
this game isnt reality so thats really not a valid excuse now is it?
Originally posted by Barak
Well ingame atm damage is sorta pants
Best ->Worst
APU - Heavy - Pistols - Melee - Rifles (imho)
Make it
APU - Melee - Heavy - Pistols - Rifles
APU will get nerfed soon and melee will be the next overpowered thing...
o_O
ResurgencE
25-03-04, 07:24
this game isnt reality so thats really not a valid excuse now is it?
Primarily, thats not an 'excuse'. Its a plain fact. Some portions of the game are based on fantasy, i.e. genrepping to save the player's time, unrealistic damage, etc...and others are based on reality, i.e. Ammo required for weapons, weapon slow-down depending on type, etc.
THIS portion of the game, which is the weapon slow-down, IS based on reality, and rightfully so, since HC weapons would be far overpowered if they didnt have such an encumbrance. This concept is present in many first-person shooters, and is based on the fact that it is easier to wield a pistol rather than a rocket-launcher in reality. It is viable to incorporate weapon slow-down into the game but NOT actual damage, otherwise your character would die in a matter of seconds, and thats the end of him. So they mix fantasy with reality, and developers specifically delineate that weapons in-game cause slower movement in order to reflect REALITY. They didnt also claim that DAMAGE will reflect reality.
Finally, the question which was asked pertained specifically to the LOGIC behind why the HC weapons cause a slow-down in comparison to pistols, and not the logic behind other unrealistic aspects of the game.
(Dont mean to argue...Simply stating some facts. Imma shaddup and go play now. :D )
ResurgencE
25-03-04, 08:15
It double-posted. :/
Cant seem to delete the second one, so i simply edited it.
Aziraphale
25-03-04, 14:43
Only change i want to see in rifles is that the snipers get proper clip size. A 16 round clip firing off 4 shots? Makes no sense.
Psyco Groupie
25-03-04, 14:44
Originally posted by Aziraphale
Only change i want to see in rifles is that the snipers get proper clip size. A 16 round clip firing off 4 shots? Makes no sense.
It shoots 4 bullets at once ? .. makes perfect sense to me
Aziraphale
25-03-04, 17:14
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
It shoots 4 bullets at once
Except it doesn't =/
Originally posted by RayBob
In other words, do heavy weapons do more damage than rifles simply because they are heavy? Do rifles do more damage than pistols simply because they are rifles?
I can't say for sure, but I suspect the answer is no. Weapons do damage based on their tech level and this seems logical. After all, the higher the TL of the weapon, the more difficult it is for a player to cap the stats on it and the less flexibility they have in building their character. Again, this makes perfect sense.
If this is true, then why does one class of weapon slow a player down more than another? What is the logic behind that? For example, if a pistol spy duels a rifle spy and both have the exact same skill level, character build, and TL weapon, the pistol spy will have an inherent speed advantage simply because he is using a pistol. Similarly, the pistol PE has an advantage over a rifle PE--all other factors being equal. I don't understand why.
Different DMG caps by any chance?
Originally posted by ResurgencE
Primarily, thats not an 'excuse'. Its a plain fact. Some portions of the game are based on fantasy, i.e. genrepping to save the player's time, unrealistic damage, etc...and others are based on reality, i.e. Ammo required for weapons, weapon slow-down depending on type, etc.
THIS portion of the game, which is the weapon slow-down, IS based on reality, and rightfully so, since HC weapons would be far overpowered if they didnt have such an encumbrance. This concept is present in many first-person shooters, and is based on the fact that it is easier to wield a pistol rather than a rocket-launcher in reality. It is viable to incorporate weapon slow-down into the game but NOT actual damage, otherwise your character would die in a matter of seconds, and thats the end of him. So they mix fantasy with reality, and developers specifically delineate that weapons in-game cause slower movement in order to reflect REALITY. They didnt also claim that DAMAGE will reflect reality.
Finally, the question which was asked pertained specifically to the LOGIC behind why the HC weapons cause a slow-down in comparison to pistols, and not the logic behind other unrealistic aspects of the game.
(Dont mean to argue...Simply stating some facts. Imma shaddup and go play now. :D )
I understand youre logic when you put it like that, but listing it as black and white just fiction/reality is a bit broad, yes there are both realistic and unrealistic things in this game....however I dont think runspeed with weapons drawn should be put into the reality factor, for one noone exactly can run around with a big ass cannon on their shoulder, probably let alone even stand still with one....secondly, tank weapons are hardly any more powerful than pistols....and god the rate of fire on them is just silly......
dunno where u've been but....
Originally posted by extract
however I dont think runspeed with weapons drawn should be put into the reality factor, for one noone exactly can run around with a big ass cannon on their shoulder,
But this isn't real life this is in-game and Gen-tanks who have been created to carry cannons and fire them would be able to do this.
secondly, tank weapons are hardly any more powerful than pistols....and god the rate of fire on them is just silly......
Again i don't know what game ur playing but CS > Pistols thats really all i can say.
DestructionUK
25-03-04, 18:31
indeed the tangent plasma cannon TL84 (i think) does more dmg per shot than a liberator TL94 (i think) i know both were capped
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
It shoots 4 bullets at once ? .. makes perfect sense to me
one thing that DOESNT make sense is the bullet speed; a melee tank and almost outrun the fucking bullet ffs.
yet assault rifle bullets hit instantly :confused:
Originally posted by Omnituens
yet assault rifle bullets hit instantly :confused:
not true....Ive noticed no difference in time between shot and hit between any rifle.....
Originally posted by extract
not true....Ive noticed no difference in time between shot and hit between any rifle.....
WTF?
you can WATCH a sniper bullet TRACK its target.
Pain Easer will do the hit nigh-instantly.
Clownst0pper
25-03-04, 20:25
Explain to me why APU is due to be nerfed again?
DUH? 8|
Originally posted by Omnituens
WTF?
you can WATCH a sniper bullet TRACK its target.
Pain Easer will do the hit nigh-instantly.
Not true if u stand a long way off from a target say a WB and fire with a phos modded PE u will see the shots hit about .5 a sec later
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Explain to me why APU is due to be nerfed again?
DUH? 8|
Errrr WTF
Clownst0pper
25-03-04, 20:29
APU will get nerfed soon and melee will be the next overpowered thing...
from Zorksmok.
He smoking something?
The APU dmg imho is perfect now, some tweaks on its randomness would be nice, but its 100% fine in offence, and recieving the dmg
Chase.Devine
25-03-04, 21:43
Originally posted by Aziraphale
Except it doesn't =/
It does but u can't see it.
Single shot weapon with phosphor or uranium stacks.
An automatic (yeah yeah i know sh is teh pwnzhaxhaxmachinegun :p) one doesn't. ;)
ResurgencE
26-03-04, 00:28
I understand youre logic when you put it like that, but listing it as black and white just fiction/reality is a bit broad, yes there are both realistic and unrealistic things in this game....however I dont think runspeed with weapons drawn should be put into the reality factor, for one noone exactly can run around with a big ass cannon on their shoulder, probably let alone even stand still with one....secondly, tank weapons are hardly any more powerful than pistols....and god the rate of fire on them is just silly......
Well, yes of course, its true that running and aiming a rocket-launcher is nigh impossible to do in reality, but they've mixed a bit of fiction with the HC weaps in order to make tanks viable. I cant imagine anyone wanting to play a class where everytime you wished to shoot, you had to set up a small camp just to aim your weapon. Especially with the fact that the other classes can run rings around you. So to compensate, they reduced aiming speed and runspeed in order to balance out the extreme advantages of augmented damage and RoF. This would prolly be the logical response RayBob was looking for.
As for encapsulating the entire game into two extremties, reality and fiction...Well, theres no other way to look at it. It has some of the former, and quite a bit of the latter, so both have to be taken into consideration.
Regardless, i think the runspeed malus on the different types of weapons are fine. However, i do think they ought to remove the -ATL property of the HC PA and implement a -MC instead.
What say you, bubba? :)
greendonkeyuk
26-03-04, 01:15
the runspeed with your weapon out thing was added before i joined nc. however the explanation that ive heard and seems most logical is that they didnt want hc tanks running at the same speed as a pistol pe/spy does with their far superior damage, the same although to a lesser extent for the rifle users. Hence the slowdown was introduced.
edit
and guys i think szorksmok was PROBABLY being sarcastic.
In theory i see it as fair, the class that does the most dmg moves slower as they have to carrier a bigger more powerfull gun around, the advantage of pistols is that you have your speed for close combat so are hard to hit (much like melee) and rifles are somewhere in between with an added range advantage, however there are things in this game which contradict what kk seems to want to do, parashock for example *sigh yes nerf para :p* it completely removes pistol and melee's speed advantage and takes the skill it takes to play them away. For the sake of variety i like the way weapons are however to make it fair the game needs to be tweaked in other places.
I always thought that all weapon types were equal as per TL, and it was the ammo that made one type stronger or weaker. Plasma cannon rounds have a higher energy value than pistol round.
Originally posted by DestructionUK
indeed the tangent plasma cannon TL84 (i think) does more dmg per shot than a liberator TL94 (i think) i know both were capped
TPC RoF cap : 227/min
Liberator RoF cap : 370/min
SpeedGun outdamages TPC IIRC, and Lib outdamages SpeedGun, so I highly doubt TPC is more powerful. Remember damage per shot is irrelevant unless you also consider RoF.
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