View Full Version : So tell me again exactly why PEs should have stealth?
I will pose this question again: Why are PEs allowed to have stealth?
They have the second best defense in the game, AND they can get stealth. That is simply not balanced. That's like giving tanks the ability to cast a Holy Heal on themselves once every 15-20 seconds or so. Stealth should be made Spy-only and PEs should get some other little toy in its place.
I'm tired of catching a PE unawares and unbuffed only to almost kill them then have them stealth away like a little pansy, rebuff, heal up and come back to usually kill me. If I get the element of surprise, THEY SHOULD DIE. And they usually do if they don't stealth.
[OT] What's up with the lack of pokers on Saturn? You can stand around for 30 minutes and shout at the top of your lungs and not get any sort of responce.
--Stryfe
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 07:54
I don't see a problem with stealth unless the pes chooses to fight then stealths when he loses. I hate people who complain about zoning, then abuse stealth like a mofo.
I think their should be a timer that blocks a PE from stealthing, after they have put away their weapon.
So it can still be used for spying and escaping, but not escaping battles the PE chooses to fight.
PEs should not have stealth. Nuff said.
Psycho Killa
22-03-04, 07:58
I like the idea of not being able to stealth under a certain health percentage. Would solve a good amount of the abuse by pe's and if you ask me spies can be almost as annoying with it. Its just the fact that they drop quicker it isnt as annoying.
Pe's should have stealth but only for the sneaking up ability not running away.
PE stealth should have a 50% chance of instant death.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I don't see a problem with stealth unless the pes chooses to fight then stealths when he loses. I hate people who complain about zoning, then abuse stealth like a mofo.
I think their should be a timer that blocks a PE from stealthing, after they have put away their weapon.
So it can still be used for spying and escaping, but not escaping battles the PE chooses to fight. See, I don't think that's valid though because the PE has such good defense to begin with. And besides, if you aren't buffed and get attacked (and lose) that's your own damn fault. I always keep my buffs up simply because I've had too many of those nasty "zone into person X's appartment" bugs.
Using it to cop out of a fight that you have actively participated in is simply not fair to anyone.
(Using your idea) Make it so that when you draw a weapon (any type, even fists) it disables stealth for a certain amount of time, maybe 30 seconds.
--Stryfe
i agree...i think stealth tools should be made spy-only...
when i had my pistol pe...i refused to use stealth...didnt carry one...i would end up fighting with other pe's and if they started to lose they would use stealth...it's a pussy-ass way of fighting imo since pe's defenses can be tough enough to last through a fight without using stealth...
now on my spy...i'll use stealth as much as i need to...becuz a spy's defenses dont equal anything near pe's defenses...
PEs are pretty strong unbuffed...however thats not the point if you take stealth away you need to give us something else or we will not be happy about it, because PEs are pretty much nothing without stealth we can be classed as a wannabe tank.
I can agree that PEs can do without stealth though, but do give us something like a jetpack..
Originally posted by StryfeX
I will pose this question again: Why are PEs allowed to have stealth?
THEY SHOULD DIE.
--Stryfe
don't worry m8, thats what i do 100% of the time. being PE means being the first to die
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I like the idea of not being able to stealth under a certain health percentage. Would solve a good amount of the abuse by pe's and if you ask me spies can be almost as annoying with it. Its just the fact that they drop quicker it isnt as annoying.
Pe's should have stealth but only for the sneaking up ability not running away.
when below 25 % hlt a bloodtrail should be left wherever a person goes, stealthed or not...
imo that is.
then the smart guy would follow the blood on ground..
the stupid would chase the cloud....
Originally posted by Rai Wong
PEs are pretty strong unbuffed...however thats not the point if you take stealth away you need to give us something else or we will not be happy about it, because PEs are pretty much nothing without stealth we can be classed as a wannabe tank.
i take it you were never a PE before Stealth? if you have the skills and the brains, PEs are "the best" class in the game IMO.
All the Stealthin PEs in this game atm is a mock and just proves that most of the skill that was in this game is slowly going away.
Spys need it cos tbh they drop so quick its just funny to kill them:p
Originally posted by Rai Wong
PEs are pretty strong unbuffed...however thats not the point if you take stealth away you need to give us something else or we will not be happy about it, because PEs are pretty much nothing without stealth we can be classed as a wannabe tank.
I'm a lowtech pe and I think I'm better than most of pluto's tanks.
I dont need stealth at all. Yesterday I ran into a enemy tank but I didn't have any buffs on. I would have stealthed but was forced to stay and fight. I won :) Giving up stealth has let me fight until the end and pull through many fights I may have left otherwise.
I dont need anything else. Stealth is such a bitch... I wish it would get a serious nerf. Just isn't fun. There isnt one fair reason a pe should have it.
I'm happy as the odd class that is great alone. PEs shouldnt have a special role. We just get a little of everything. All I can ask for is more weapon choices.
Originally posted by L3m0n
PEs are "the best" class in the game IMO.
Solo yes. In fights that involve ppu monks NO.
Yea I gotta agree, PEs have the second best defense in the game... the fact that they tryed to limit the PEs usage of Stealth by raising requirements shows that they acknowlege a problem but didn't do enough to solve it.
PEs can be great with Rifles and pistols... decent with Heavy Combat and Melee Combat, make decent tradeskillers, can pretty much gun and use every vehicle, etc. etc. etc... don't think it would limit the class at all... dunno what would be a good remedy for it but PE and stealth doesn't seem to go well together.
can someone please explain to me whats up with the second best defense thing ??
afaic :
#1 = PPU
#2 = TANK
#3 = PE
#4 = APU
#5 = SPY
Originally posted by naimex
can someone please explain to me whats up with the second best defense thing ??
afaic :
#1 = PPU
#2 = TANK
#3 = PE
#4 = APU
#5 = SPY
PE can shelter which makes him a lot tougher than a tank against the primary damage types.
Originally posted by jernau
PE can shelter which makes him a lot tougher than a tank against the primary damage types.
^^
my tank takes 20 dmg from a judge per shot
a fully buffed pe takes 50-60 dmg from a cs per shot
a selfbuffed tank is equal to or above a selfbuffed PE in defense.
Originally posted by naimex
can someone please explain to me whats up with the second best defense thing ??
Good PEs do have better defense than a tank. That goes for all damage types.
I'm with Drake's opinions, but... you have to admit stealth is nice when another clan brings say... 6 people to kill just you? Including PPUs. I mean sure it's all heroic to fight them all at once, but I like to live sometimes. And if I can take down a few people in the 6 using hit and run tactics, I owe it to stealth. But in interests of balance... there's no way in hell I should be able to kill any of them before dying myself, so stealth is definately overpowering for PEs. But something else is needed to replace it...
And PE's don't always have second best defense in the game. Depending on setup, they can have the better defenses than tanks but not hybrids. They could also use a perfectly viable setup with worse defense than a tank. And another perfectly viable setup with worse defense than a drugged spy. The PEs with the second best defense in the game can't always stealth. And although they have better defense than a Tank, it's only slightly better and tanks have a lot better damage output.
PEs have to make a conscious choice between speed, damage output, defense, and tradeskills (driving/poking/hacking for the most part). There's always a tradeoff.
You are mixing offence and defence there naimex.
Originally posted by Drake6k
Good PEs do have better defense than a tank. That goes for all damage types.
Only selfbuffed. In op wars tanks have the best defense in the game bar PPUs (I think... maybe not though).
Originally posted by naimex
^^
my tank takes 20 dmg from a judge per shot
a fully buffed pe takes 50-60 dmg from a cs per shot
a selfbuffed tank is equal to or above a selfbuffed PE in defense.
I have never seen a tank take 50-60 from a CS in a 1v1 tank fight.
Originally posted by jernau
You are mixing offence and defence there naimex.
I must be.
or maybe we just think of defense differently.
I think of defense as the ability to survive (so it would be a combo of offense and defense i suppose).
You can have all the defense in the world but it wont save you if you cant make the other guy stop hitting you.
thats kinda what im thinking when talking defense.
Originally posted by Drake6k
I have never seen a tank take 50-60 from a CS in a 1v1 tank fight.
?? you should come uranus some time..
most tanks take 61 dmg from a cs burst up close and personal.
but then again, you have to hit all blobs and to do that you gotta keep lock.
[EDIT] Double post sorry.. didnt think.. just saw, and quoted. forgot to copy quote to edit of other post, sorry :(
Originally posted by naimex
I must be.
I think of defense as the ability to survive (so it would be a combo of offense and defense i suppose).
Oh...
Well defense = amount of hits you can take
^ That has nothing to do with offense ;)
Originally posted by naimex
I must be.
or maybe we just think of defense differently.
I think of defense as the ability to survive (so it would be a combo of offense and defense i suppose).
You can have all the defense in the world but it wont save you if you cant make the other guy stop hitting you.
thats kinda what im thinking when talking defense.
Problem with that logic is that stealth = invincibility, so therefore ANY class with stealth is unbalanced and overpowered, being able to survive indefinately under almost any circumstance.
Originally posted by naimex
I must be.
or maybe we just think of defense differently.
I think of defense as the ability to survive (so it would be a combo of offense and defense i suppose).
You can have all the defense in the world but it wont save you if you cant make the other guy stop hitting you.
thats kinda what im thinking when talking defense.
That's true to an extent. You do need to recognise the difference between offence and defence though. He said "second best defence" which means comparisons of offence aren't included.
Run-speed probably should however and is heavily in the PEs favour.
Why places spies below APUs ?
APUs are by far the worst in taking damage ...
Spies can at least heal, buff and (if skilled accordingly) do shelter & deflector
Spies > all
well, maybe only APUs ;)
PE's should not have stealth. Any decent PE's have played for months upon months withOUT stealth, and all was well. There was no need for it.
Should be spy only, and should be for SPYING only...not escaping from a fight because you are too pussy to deal with it.
Originally posted by naimex
can someone please explain to me whats up with the second best defense thing ??
afaic :
#1 = PPU
#2 = TANK
#3 = PE
#4 = APU
#5 = SPY
In reality:
#1 - ppu - self explanitory
#2 - pe - capped heal, shelter, 450+ hp easy, high resist numbers
#3 - tank - decent heal 550+ hp easy, extreme resist numbers
#4 - spy - 300+ hp, decent resist numbers, can drug for shelt
#5 - apu - usually under 300hp, decent resist numbers, no buffs
capped runcast heal + shelter easily puts PE's on a level above tanks at defense. not to mention they dont get slowed down by thier primary weapons, have nearly as much hp and resists at very high numbers dont have much of an effect so really hte gap between (example) 125 - 150 in a resist isn't all that much, unfortunately for tanks.
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 11:34
Originally posted by naimex
afaic :
#1 = PPU
#2 = TANK
#3 = PE
#4 = APU
#5 = SPY
IMO it's
#1 = PPU
:p
#5 = PE
#6 = Tank
#7 =apu/spy
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
#7 =apu/spy
shelt possibility, runcast 550% heal and a bit more HP will actually put spies over apus defense wise, quite easily ;)
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 11:39
Originally posted by g0rt
shelt possibility, runcast 550% heal and a bit more HP will actually put spies over apus defense wise, quite easily ;)
true, but i was being realistic. :p
Not many spies deal with the the drug required for shelter. Dunno why, I drug up all the time on my apu. But then again it's a 10 min drug, not shitty detrosol forte. :p
Originally posted by g0rt
Should be spy only, and should be for SPYING only...not escaping from a fight because you are too pussy to deal with it.
g0rt has pritty much said it all realy, stealth is just away of runnin away! only people who know there going to die stealth, i only ask what did you do before? just not go and fight?:rolleyes:
it's clear to me, having been a stealth free PE for some months now (stealthed for only 3 or 4 months, but still feel dirty), that a PE can do easily without stealth. however, i'd be loathe to remove this toy from PE setups entirely.
i would either make stealth less useful dependant on TC levels (meeting TC reqs on your stealthtool will result in a more easily followed blue cloud, increasing TC greatly will reduce the cloud to it's current level of visibility), or increase the INT req on stealth 1 to 70, either way forcing you to further gimpage.
stealth should be a matter of normal progression for spys, and severe gimpage for PEs.
Stealth should really be spy only.
Nowadays its used mostly to get away from a fight, wich is lame, cus if you got yourself in a fight, you should stay until you or the enemy drop.
The tanks crappy healing abilities are easy to take advantage of when using stealth too.
I say give the stealth to spys, and boost it. Then maybe it would be used for what it's ment to be used - spying on the enemy.
Don't make stealth unavailable below 25%. Make stealth 1 unavailable below 75% health. Then you can spy with it, but once you get actually seen and hit a bit, you can't run away with it. I think that works. Stealth 2 could be 50%, 3 at 25%, and Oblit the same or 0%.
Originally posted by Scikar
Don't make stealth unavailable below 25%. Make stealth 1 unavailable below 75% health. Then you can spy with it, but once you get actually seen and hit a bit, you can't run away with it. I think that works. Stealth 2 could be 50%, 3 at 25%, and Oblit the same or 0%.
this is the only idea so far that is any good ;) this way the mofos cant run away on 10hp, heal up and come back for more! yep im likeing it and maby KK will as well?:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Scikar
Don't make stealth unavailable below 25%. Make stealth 1 unavailable below 75% health. Then you can spy with it, but once you get actually seen and hit a bit, you can't run away with it. I think that works. Stealth 2 could be 50%, 3 at 25%, and Oblit the same or 0%.
I like that. Then maybe they can un-nerf Stealth 3 and Obliterator.
Originally posted by Scikar
Don't make stealth unavailable below 25%. Make stealth 1 unavailable below 75% health. Then you can spy with it, but once you get actually seen and hit a bit, you can't run away with it. I think that works. Stealth 2 could be 50%, 3 at 25%, and Oblit the same or 0%.
it's a good idea, but i don't see how it fits in with the general ethos and mechanics of stealthing. why, technically, would your tool fail to activate given your health status? why would your stealth tool even "know" what your health is? i'm not trying to be a pedant, i'd just like the limiting factors on stealth to follow some logic.
how about if, with reduced health, you become more visible? the whole problem with stealth used to escape a fight when things start to go wrong for you is that a PE can then heal up and return, usually healing faster that his opponent. and since it seems some folks have difficulties following a stealther, why not simply make it easier to see the blue cloud the more you've been damaged. like leaving a trail of blood, or increasing the visibility of your footfalls (the little cloud of dust at your feet).
Garg [RogueNET]
22-03-04, 12:16
Originally posted by eLcHi
Spies can at least heal, buff and (if skilled accordingly) do shelter & deflector
Spies cant do Shelter....
Easy. The stealth tool is calibrated to your body. When your body is hooribly disfigured and crippled by plasma burns and weighs a few pounds more thanks to small chunks of lead, the stealth tool is no longer calibrated correctly and cannot activate. The higher level tools are more tolerant of changes in your body status.
Originally posted by s0apy
it's a good idea, but i don't see how it fits in with the general ethos and mechanics of stealthing. why, technically, would your tool fail to activate given your health status? why would your stealth tool even "know" what your health is?
Too much blood on the tool or being too hurt to have the dexterity to use one something like that.
PE stealth should just be removed but I would have to stay off the forums for a month or 2 to avoid the bitching and whining about how they are nerfed and the weakest in all areas that they have a tendency to spout already.
Originally posted by Garg [RogueNET]
Spies cant do Shelter....
Yea we can, just use drugs...
What we really need is for them to define why they put in Stealth, for a defensive tool for spies or just for scouting. If a spy is fighting usually you can kill him well before he puts his weapon away and pulls out his stealth tool then finally activates it... spies aren't like PEs when they get down to around 100 HP they can still get away... usually they fall right on there backs.
Originally posted by Scikar
Easy. The stealth tool is calibrated to your body. When your body is hooribly disfigured and crippled by plasma burns and weighs a few pounds more thanks to small chunks of lead, the stealth tool is no longer calibrated correctly and cannot activate. The higher level tools are more tolerant of changes in your body status.
ok, that works good, but this all-or-nothing thing still bothers me. sorry to harp on it, but why not make it so that stealth continues to work even with extreme body damage, however it works significantly "less well" the more damaged you are. i just like this idea since it would add to the tactical considerations in a fight.
e.g. if i'm fighting a regular guy, i go for the legs first - it slows them down, but does less damage than head or chest shots. but if i'm fighting a stealther, i'd be tempted to go for increased damage initially, to ensure i can more easily follow him if he goes into stealth. at the moment only APUs really have the ability to fight a stealther tactically in this way (using DoT spells to make the stealther visibile).
Ozambabbaz
22-03-04, 13:01
get skills?
play in 1st person?
use what u have access to in order to combat this better?
use the trade-nc channel as usual?
OT has anyone else noticed that the overall skill of people playing PEs has gotten worse since stealth was introduced?
There still are the uber PEs but alot of the old ones just arent as good as they were before stealth.
stealther are starting to piss me off, attacked a PE at the MB, before my first plasma shot could even land the PE was hitting the stealth button, bunch of nibs:mad:
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
OT has anyone else noticed that the overall skill of people playing PEs has gotten worse since stealth was introduced?
There still are the uber PEs but alot of the old ones just arent as good as they were before stealth.
yep before stealth came into the game PEs were the most l33t class imo
but now allmost everyone has a stealthing PE cos they want to be l33t, its just not the same:(
To begin with "good PEs" doesnt necesarily have better defence
than tanks. It depends if the PE specs for low or high offence,
theres a world of difference and dont mix the two. A PE which has
the ubar defence everyone is talking about will have shit for
damage output and vice versa.
That aside. Say we remove stealth from PEs, and give them
nothing in return, remind me again why you would want to play a
PE instead of any of the other classes? Or should they just be for
people who thinks its cool to play a gimpy class?
Dargeshaad
22-03-04, 13:24
Or maybe it's just because the stealth tool attracted alot of people to the PE class.
I know for sure that there's alot more PEs now, than there were before stealth was introduced.
I like the idea with the % health though. Top notch idea.
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 13:26
Originally posted by Rade
That aside. Say we remove stealth from PEs, and give them
nothing in return, remind me again why you would want to play a
PE instead of any of the other classes? Or should they just be for
people who thinks its cool to play a gimpy class?
Why did you play PE before stealth?
cos PEs are one of the only good fighting classes that can look after themself in a fight! Hybrids are crap and spys die too easy in close PvP so if you have the skills to play a non stealthin PE then good on you we dont have many in this game and we need a lot more of them.
Bring back Starkes,Blade and helmut73 :p
Lots of people already play PEs without using stealth, Zoneseek for example.
I would still play mine, because he's self sufficient. He is far better for fighting solo than my tank. Runcast heal at every available oppurtunity while wearing down enemies and the best PEs can win in fights on their own against multiple enemies, and without stealth. Tanks can't do that.
On the subject of trading defence for more offense, considering the insane damage Executioner does atm, I'd say that's still balanced without stealth. You go for less defence than tanks (though still capped runcast heal) and in return you get the Exe for offense, I'd say that's a fair tradeoff.
PEs are balanced, my main runner is one so I know how they play, I also play an APU & Tank on Saturn and I've played againist them.
I've killed and been killed by them, sure some PEs can be stealth whores but they're generally the easiest to kill in my opinion.
I'm really tired of people whinging about the PE using stealth, use your brain and kill them, if you cant do that then maybe make one and play the class for a while.
If you do you'll learn how to use stealth and thru that knowledge learn how to counteract it.
Finally I see alot of people saying give PEs something else, well you think of something to replace stealth for PEs and pitch it to KK, your idea might just get addded to the game but until you come up with one please STFU NIBs!
:angel:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Why did you play PE before stealth?
Because I was one of those guys who thought it was cool to play
a gimpy class. Then I got tired of it and quit NC for a while.
Now I have a few chars, I already have a hard time thinking up a
reason to play my PE, the only reason I log her on is because Im
attached to the name. Remove the stealth and I cant see a
reason whatsoever.
And these stupid examples of people not using stealth is the
same lame argument everyone uses in thread about a setups
viability. Just that someone does it and ís quite succesful isnt
proof that something is viable or balanced, get it out of your head
ffs. Ok say zoneseek is playing a PE without stealth, do you think
he is more effective with his PE or with say, a H-C tank?
Oh I forgot something, whats this talk about "PEs are the only
ones that can look after themselves in a fight" and "PEs are the
most self-suficient"? Bullshit. My Tank and my Spy are just as
good as my PE in that aspect. Exactly what is it that makes you
believe PEs are any special here?
Originally posted by Rade
And these stupid examples of people not using stealth is the
same lame argument everyone uses in thread about a setups
viability. Just that someone does it and ís quite succesful isnt
proof that something is viable or balanced, get it out of your head
ffs. Ok say zoneseek is playing a PE without stealth, do you think
he is more effective with his PE or with say, a H-C tank?
Situation? OP fight, go for Tank. Solo against 5 enemies? PE any day.
Besides with the chips available now you can make a setup that keeps the better than Tank defence and drugs to RoLH.
Before stealth PEs weren't a minority. If it was just people who want to play a gimpy class they would have been.
And anyway, you're assuming PEs wouldn't get anything back in return. It's already accepted that they should get something, so your point is moot.
EDIT: The simple fact that PEs are faster than H-C Tanks can runcast heal during it. Also they have less total HP to heal up to, so they can heal better than the tank and therefore last longer in the fight.
Why don't you tell me something. If you hardly ever play your PE anyway what difference does it make whether you have stealth or not? Do you really only ever play your PE to constantly use your stealth tool?
[edited for violation of the forum rules]PEs are still the win but only people with no skill use them, and other people are useing examples of other runners to make it so people can see that it is poss but only if you (at this time) want to.
so if you were a non Stealthin PE like you say why did you change? to try it out, fair enough but keepin it cos you like to be a stealth ********? why? what skill is there in that?
PEs werent gimped without stealth the most feared players on uranus were PEs other then Hybrids some of them still are its just now everybody and his dog has a PE and the majority use the tactic of stealthing up to you and shouting you in the back, which I see actually as the proper way to use stealth, but when you turn around and pull out a weapon they pull out their stealth tool and run away rinse and repeat for a few minutes and you get lots of lameness and boredom, its gotten to the stage where going to places like the MB are just too irritating to be worth the hassle.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
PEs werent gimped without stealth the most feared players on uranus were PEs other then Hybrids some of them still are its just now everybody and his dog has a PE and the majority use the tactic of stealthing up to you and shouting you in the back, which I see actually as the proper way to use stealth, but when you turn around and pull out a weapon they pull out their stealth tool and run away rinse and repeat for a few minutes and you get lots of lameness and boredom, its gotten to the stage where going to places like the MB are just too irritating to be worth the hassle.
Thats the player behind the runner and not the runner, sure theres lots of muppets out their exploiting stealth to irritate people but that doesnt mean the class is borked.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Originally posted by Scikar
And anyway, you're assuming PEs wouldn't get anything back in return. It's already accepted that they should get something, so your point is moot.
You, me, the threadstarter, and some other people accepted that
yeah. But there are still a shitload that thinks that just removing
stealth from PE would be perfect. As if PEs are a big balance
problem atm.
Originally posted by Scikar
EDIT: The simple fact that PEs are faster than H-C Tanks can runcast heal during it. Also they have less total HP to heal up to, so they can heal better than the tank and therefore last longer in the fight.
I can runcast heal on my tank. I know H-C tanks that do it as
well. If you chose to spec weapon lore instead of psi use its a
choice, not a balance flaw. The defencive specced PEs that yall
love to refer to doesnt have much less HP than a tank so it would
take just as long for them to heal up.
Originally posted by Scikar
Why don't you tell me something. If you hardly ever play your PE anyway what difference does it make whether you have stealth or not? Do you really only ever play your PE to constantly use your stealth tool?
Perhaps, just perhaps, I care about the balance in the game and
not just the characters that I play. Not like the threadstarter here
who has a bad experience ingame and has to run to the forums
and whine about it. Stop being a dick sci, why would I play my
PE? In which situation would I prefer to bring a PE instead of
some other class? I can think of _one_ scenario, PKing against a
superior force outside MB, because there stealth would allow for
one quick kill and then getting away before dying. In any other
PvP situation in the game I would bring another char. Feel free to
come up with other PvP scenarios where you would prefer to
bring a PE.
Originally posted by L3m0n
[edited for consistency] PEs are still the win but only people with no skill use them, and other people are useing examples of other runners to make it so people can see that it is poss but only if you (at this time) want to.
so if you were a non Stealthin PE like you say why did you change? to try it out, fair enough but keepin it cos you like to be a stealth ********? why? what skill is there in that?
I didnt change. Im talking about the time long before stealth
existed. I came back to NC around the time stealth came in. If
you dont understand what you can do with stealth and skill then
I suggest you go try it out, other than that I refer to what I said
to sci, show me situations where you would prefer to bring a PE,
or even better, a PE without stealth. Now, if you want to get a
reply from me again I suggest you take your trashtalk
somewhere else.
i would be more than happy, if i could target the cloud (w/o the reticle though)
like when the nameless PEs "invaded" NC, whom u could target but did had the hitbox
i would be MORE than happy about that, so i can hit them with every weapon i have and not just plasma or area
edit - and while u r at it, REMOVE PE-PA :p :D
PEs wont be gimped without stealth as they werent before stealth they wont be gimped if they dont have them again.
Jesus your all too used to your invinciblity tools strapped to your arms
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
PEs wont be gimped without stealth as they werent before stealth they wont be gimped if they dont have them again.
Jesus your all too used to your invinciblity tools strapped to your arms
Thats where you are wrong. They were inferior to the other
classes before stealth. Learn to separate between player skill
and character strength.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
The original poster is talking about me.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Originally posted by Rade
Thats where you are wrong. They were inferior to the other
classes before stealth. Learn to separate between player skill
and character strength.
So your saying that a class that can cap the damage on the RoLH and exec and can have as good or better resists and speed then a tank and can heal themselves better then a tank spy or apu is gimped and un-usable without stealth?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
So your saying that a class that can cap the damage on the RoLH and exec and can have as good or better resists and speed then a tank and can heal themselves better then a tank spy or apu is gimped and un-usable without stealth?
Bullshit!
We cant do all that, sure I can get high damage on an exe with drugs and I can cap it if I dont want to use stealth but while I'm doing that I've gimped my armour so my resists arent near as good as a mid level tank and thats the reality of it.
Yes we can do all the things you've said but we cant do them all at once, use the skill manager to prove me wrong and put your money where your mouth is.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
So your saying that a class that can cap the damage on the RoLH and exec and can have as good or better resists and speed then a tank and can heal themselves better then a tank spy or apu is gimped and un-usable without stealth?
You obviously dont know shit about how PEs can be specced.
What you are talking about is either something from your dreams
or using 10+ drugs.
Defensive PEs will have higher defence than a Tank, IF there are
no PPU around to buff. (Or PE to buff the tank for that matter,
thats all it takes to shift the balance)
Offencive PEs will have ABOUT THE SAME defence as a Tank. Until
a PPU (or PE) buffs the Tank, then he will be vastly superior.
PEs do NOT cap damage RoLH, and definately not exec, without
drugging. Frequency is pathetic.
Tanks and Spies can heal themselves just as good as a PE can.
Every single statement you made is off the walls crazy. LEARN
SOMETHING ABOUT THE CLASS before you start trying to balance
them.
Psyco Groupie
22-03-04, 14:17
pes can have stleath if we can shutup the ppu nerf crew .. man they suck
The two things are totally unrealated but for the record I have no problem with the PPU as it is right now, sure holy glue halo is a massive pain in the testicles but I think everyone universally agrees it is... except KK o_O
Nightbrother
22-03-04, 14:19
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
So your saying that a class that can cap the damage on the RoLH and exec and can have as good or better resists and speed then a tank and can heal themselves better then a tank spy or apu is gimped and un-usable without stealth?
Well, yes, PE's may be able to cap the RoLH and the Exec.... but only IF THEY HAVE NO AGILITY, and then even maybe not. To be honest I haven't tried having no agility, cause I would need insane amounts of ATH to run properly, which would mean non-existant resists.
So when you say that PE's cap RoLH, you are very wrong. You don't even say 'cap damage', you say cap as if you think they cap dmg, freq. and everything, and as the other two said, the RoLH freq. on a capped PE with reasonable resists and running is rather pathetic.
Oh please, try to dabble with the truth for a bit. :)
Dargeshaad
22-03-04, 14:19
I cap dmg on RoLH, but I'm sacrificing alot of runspeed and I have to spec all INT into wpn lore.
You get a minus 3 from str thats all and you can easily make that up with a beast and most speed comes form redflash and whiteflash, as a PE you really need to take these drugs constantly, which is why I dont play a PE anymore, or your going to have a shitty setup.
And I cant do a skill manager since Im in college atm, if I have a chance when I get home Ill try get one done and try find somewhere to host it, but it would be handier if a PE who can setup his char backed me up.
Originally posted by Rade
Tanks and Spies can heal themselves just as good as a PE can.
Thats utter shite tbh. Spies can cap basic heal if they dont spec shelter but if they do they cant and tanks can get up to 506% if they get a minimum 3 slot heal and on spec mst of 3.
Originally posted by Nightbrother
So when you say that PE's cap RoLH, you are very wrong. You don't even say 'cap damage',
I said that they can cap damage specifically and they do that because they can overspec weapon lore which increases damage percentage.
Originally posted by Dargeshaad
I cap dmg on RoLH, but I'm sacrificing alot of runspeed and I have to spec all INT into wpn lore.
So you have all your int in weapon lore?
I'd like to see you run cast a heal then? I'd also be curious about your run speed. Like myself and other s have siad it is possible for the PE to do alot of thengs but if you want to live for more than 30 seconds in PvP you cant do it all.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
You get a minus 3 from str thats all and you can easily make that up with a beast and most speed comes form redflash and whiteflash, as a PE you really need to take these drugs constantly, which is why I dont play a PE anymore, or your going to have a shitty setup.
And I cant do a skill manager since Im in college atm, if I have a chance when I get home Ill try get one done and try find somewhere to host it, but it would be handier if a PE who can setup his char backed me up.
PEs shouldnt have to use drugs to stand up to other characters that dont have to use drugs, that would mean other classes needed nerfing, your statements continue to show you dont have a clue about playing PEs, your opinions are next to meaningless.
I await your setup and the laughs it should give me with baited breathe.
Being on a shitload of drugs is only viable in duels and even then
some drugs will backfire and kill you if the duel drags out on time.
Talk about realistic setups without drugs. You cant fight in a long
OP war etc with the addict setups that you propose.
Actually you said it yourself:
as a PE you really need to take these drugs constantly, which is why I dont play a PE anymore, or your going to have a shitty setup.
And since drugging that bad isnt viable, PEs will have shitty
setups.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Thats utter shite tbh. Spies can cap basic heal if they dont spec shelter but if they do they cant and tanks can get up to 506% if they get a minimum 3 slot heal and on spec mst of 3.
I have a tank and spy, both runcast heal. Id like to see you prove
me wrong.
Dargeshaad
22-03-04, 14:31
Ye sorry, I'm sitting at uni writing this so can't check my char. I have about 20 in PSI Use, enough to cap ROF on heal.
Last i checked, PE's still do the least amount of dmg unless they use some more specific setup to reach a higher TL gun...
So ya know what, no sympathy, Stealth stays.
No, I don't use it.
You've all got it backwards. Give tanks stealth.
Stealth is the only viable way to escape holy blue glue for any class. So just give everyone stealth. It would make the game so much better :angel:
PS: I'm not entirely serious. But slightly.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
PEs shouldnt have to use drugs to stand up to other characters that dont have to use drugs, that would mean other classes needed nerfing, your statements continue to show you dont have a clue about playing PEs, your opinions are next to meaningless.
Why shouldnt they?
They are meant to be average in all stats yet they want to use all spy weapons, want to use inq 3 and have good psi, if you want all these you have to drug or have a non-drugged gimpy setup.
You cant have the best of all worlds yet you continuely whine for it and any attempt to balance things like stealth your up in arms about how nerfed you are when you clearly are not.
Its not as if PEs are the only class that needs to use drug spies need atleast 2 to have decent resists and 4 for a good setup which is more then you need for a decent PE setup and I dont see spies complaining a tenth as much as PEs even thought they are more nerfed and less viable in any role other then sniper stealth pussy which some spies just hate playing.
Visit www.stopwhine.com for all your whining needs and if you want to continue crying about how nerfed your class is and how much it sucks why dont you just re-role or stfu.
Good thinking snow, so now PEs shouldnt be able to fight the
other classes? Remind me to ignore you in all balance discussions.
Originally posted by Rade
I have a tank and spy, both runcast heal. Id like to see you prove
me wrong.
runcasting heal on any class is impossible :rolleyes:
Tanks CANT cap dmg on a heal, they can get close though, but only if they dont spec to use def/heavy1
As for drugging, I only need take one dex drug for pvp, without an SA, and I get capped runspeed, good resists, stealth 1 and almsot cap a RoG.
I'm happy, and enjoy it a lot more then a tank, because I can
A) heal faster
B) stealth
C) rifle runspeed!!!!?!OEN!NE!
I'm not too fussed with PE's having stealth, it's only really a problem in PP fighting or 1v1's
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Visit www.stopwhine.com for all your whining needs and if you want to continue crying about how nerfed your class is and how much it sucks why dont you just re-role or stfu.
Seems to me that the whiners are the tanks who don't like losing in PvP :rolleyes:
Look at op wars...when was the last time a PE swung the balance? Or you heard on voice comms "holy shit, INCOMING PE, I'm anti-buffing!!!". It just doesn't happen. In OP wars (where the real PvP is at :)) PE are the last to fall just cos no one cares about them. I mean sure their guns tickle, but so do roaches.
Originally posted by Celt
runcasting heal on any class is impossible :rolleyes:
Well you know what I mean, call it staggercast or whatever. The
point is my PE, my Tank and my Spy all "staggercast" equally well
and they all heal as fast.
**edit: This is just the same old thing. Everytime someone dies
to a PE its "OMG TEY R AVERAG CITIZN AN I R GENETICLY UBAR SO
EY SHUD DIEE!!!" Sorry, doesnt work that way. Even now where
PEs are the least useful class for PvP they are still going at it.
Fucking pathetic. Give PEs a real role in group PvP so that you
actually want to bring em every once in a while and Ill give you
something to really whine about.
Originally posted by Rade
Well you know what I mean, call it staggercast or whatever. The
point is my PE, my Tank and my Spy all "staggercast" equally well
and they all heal as fast.
No, the point is tank's cant cap dmg on a heal, sure they can cap RoF, but they cant cap dmg :)
I think snow's problem is that PE's can outheal tanks, get almost as good resists, and stealth as soon as they get on low health.
A RoG or Judge isnt as good as a CS, but it's not THAT far.
But as soon as a PPU comes along, that flies out the window.
As far as I can see, this thread is about 1v1's and similar, not op wars, ie: without ppu's involved.
If you look at it that way, PE's probably shouldnt have stealth, but if you look at it at op wars, they definitely should.
Originally posted by Celt
No, the point is tank's cant cap dmg on a heal, sure they can cap RoF, but they cant cap dmg :)
I think snow's problem is that PE's can outheal tanks, get almost as good resists, and stealth as soon as they get on low health.
Before the patch that made healing random (and hence made it
harder to test) my PE healed 8 points a tick, my spy healed 8
points a tick, and my Tank healed 8 points a tick. How is the PE
outhealing the Tank and the Spy all of the sudden? I think you
are right about the dmg% on the heal tho, the tank had
490something but how does that matter when they are healing
just as fast?
**edit: actually I might be shooting myself in the foot here. The
tank might have been healing at 7 points per tick. :/ Even so, its
a difference of some 20 HPs from the entire duration of the heal,
a difference so small that you probably wouldnt notice it.
Psyco Groupie
22-03-04, 14:57
Thats a melee tank with 50 + psu tho ?
Originally posted by MrChumble
Seems to me that the whiners are the tanks who don't like losing in PvP :rolleyes:
Look at op wars...when was the last time a PE swung the balance? Or you heard on voice comms "holy shit, INCOMING PE, I'm anti-buffing!!!". It just doesn't happen. In OP wars (where the real PvP is at :)) PE are the last to fall just cos no one cares about them. I mean sure their guns tickle, but so do roaches.
Lol I spent yesterday at the MB being attacked by stealth PEs and chasing them off with a melee tank thats 3 days old and I finally had to leave because I was on -15 sl and couldnt afford to kill any more of them.
Rabbi Fang does it all the time, Xantor did or does dunno how active he is atm IVY owned everything until he quit and most other PEs just suck and play the class cos they stealth.
Rade where do you get off saying PEs are the worst in PvP when pistol spies obviously are the worst off in PvP and have even less worth in OP wars then PEs do and rifle spies are atleast as worthless in opwars as PEs oh and melee tanks are useless there too until KK make anti-shock belt stackable.
Only tanks and monks are more useful in general and thats because KK have PPUs unbalanced not because PEs are the most nerfed and most under powered class in the game bull shit that you keep spouting (strangely I think you actually believe it too) so stop with the blind defense of stealth when its clearly unbalanced and petition for PPU balancing and do something useful.
When KK sort out PPUs PEs will be a hell of a lot more useful
Yepp. Altho I know H-C tanks with all int in psi use and from what
Ive seen they do a hell of a lot better than the ones with weapon
lore. If you chose to spec weapon lore instead of psi use its your
choice not to be able to heal like a PE.
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 15:01
Stealth will never be made spy only.
There was a sense that KK wanted it to be harder, by raising the INT requirment, even then, everyone has 65 intelligance, so what was the point?
75 base INT would have made it a challenge :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Rade where do you get off saying PEs are the worst in PvP when pistol spies obviously are the worst off in PvP and have even less worth in OP wars then PEs do and rifle spies are atleast as worthless in opwars as PEs oh and melee tanks are useless there too until KK make anti-shock belt stackable.
Pistol spies? uh, a droner PE are worse than pistol spies. So are
constructor tanks. However if you throw in PPU backing the pistol
spy they are far more effective than a PE due to the fact that
they deal more damage. Rifle spies snipe alot better then rifle
PEs do. But yeah, something should be done for spies as well,
but with hacknet comming it looks like they might get sorted.
There should be more stuff like mines and handgrenades with
weird effects etc for spies tho.
But Ill make it simple for you, show me a PvP scenario where you
would rather bring a PE without stealth than some other class.
**edit: its funny snow, considering that I have done nothing but
PvPing with a PE for the last 16 or so months, and still now I
have started to play other classes, not because Im tired of my
PE, I still love the char, but because the other classes are so
incredibly much more useful. But oh keep telling yourself that PEs
are overpowered and need nerfing, maybe you'll make it happen
if you believe it enough.
uhm, i dont aagre...
and if ur gonna make stealth SPY only, i wanna know what other toy there will be... =)
[edited violation of fourm rules][freya]
id like to see it spy only because pe`s really dont need it...and its overpowerd imo
I recently made a melee tank with:
1. BETTER resists than my PE (PE when sheltered). As 99% of the people that play Uranus will know, my resists are one of the best on the server.
2. 502% & 52/min on basic heal
3. Capped body health.
A tank, melee or HC setup correctly could, and SHOULD have better defence than a PE. IMO, thats why PE's havent been nerfed.
Tanks with good setups wont be complaining about PE's on this thread.
- Oh yes, NERF stealth. I for one do not use it as a PE (with 88 TC). :p
- And PE's are JUST FINE. Leave everything alone regarding PE other than stealth.
kthxbye
I didn't say PEs are not powerful, but I disagree with the gerneralizing in this thread, the ability of a class is not defined. Some people can play spies and drop a tank, some people have better resists then other. My generalized table is here.
The JOAT is BS as I said many times before spies can be JOATs much more then a PE, while a PE has to gimp completely to be any sort of JOAT
Also you do not take account into sub classes as well pistol PEs are way better then rifle PEs. The fact is there are so many pistol PEs now a days that people regard the PE class as pistol PEs anyways.
PEs and Tanks are pretty much equal, and depends on setup and skills of the user, while stealth needs to be removed when it is done the PE will basicaly be a Tank that sucks in op fights. Let me put a list to make it clearly why PEs need another thing for them.
Tank - Huge Damage (less then APU), AoE
APUs - Huge Damage, Antibuff, AoE
PPUs - Db, Para, S/D, Combat, Support, Resist, Catharsis, heal, antipoison and antistealth
Spies - Good Damage, Stealth, Tradeskill (JOAT)
now PEs - Mediocre Damage, and stealth....? and the tad bit of psi which is used really to make us equal to tanks and cancels out in an op fight.
PEs are arguably the best solo character bar apu/ppu pair, but they are the worst in op fights, whether that is balanced or not depends on who is viewing it. People who solo more would say pistol PEs are over powered, people who op fight more would think PEs suck. I still think rifles need a slight boost, while stealth is nice I can do without it, my HC PE doesn't use stealth and she does fine, but fix the rifles first godamnit.
Defensive
1 PPU
2 Hybrid
3 Tank
4 PE (very close to a tank when buffed)
5 APU
6 Spy
The last thing I want is to get owned by executioner pistol PEs in PP and unable to stealth. Until PEs get a new toy, and riflers get fixed then yeah go ahead, until then no...
REMOVE SPECIALISATION
If nothing more, it will be SO SO SO fun.
Originally posted by L0KI
REMOVE SPECIALISATION
If nothing more, it will be SO SO SO fun.
lol yea...that would be awesome :)
i want my hack/poke/ress melee/hc tank back :)
:p
Originally posted by Rai Wong
JOAT is BS as I said many times before spies can be JOATs much more then a PE, while a PE has to gimp completely to be any sort of JOAT
I sort of disagree, when I hear JOAT I think someone who has the ability of most of the other classes... PEs fall into the second best category with almost every weapon and still make decent tradeskillers and after PPUs and Hybrids have the best buffs.
Now I am not calling PEs JOATS so don't beat me, just saying they are capable of being quite flexible compared to other classes... Jack of All Trades but master of none is what I think it means myself... but the way the game is setup it sort of leaves a lot of grey area...
Doubt they will remove stealth from PEs, I think the negative backlash would be pretty bad if they attempted it.
Skilled players have always stood a good chance to take me down, if I stealth or not. Once im shot in the legs ive lost one of my most important abilities, and the 10 seconds of stealth isnt enough to get anywhere ; a smart enemy often casts his own heal too, knowing im not getting anywhere fast...
Still, you need to be totally PvP oriented to really combat as a PE. PE's arent an easy class to PvP as really, and you need to concentrate on co-oridnating everything. I agree that stealth shouldnt be used as an attack assistance or to run off (i.e , it makes PE's good anti-stealthers because they can stealth to chase stealthers)
The stealth should not help you escape from a fight your losing fairly. A lot of the problem is however, if you're jumped by someone with a CS and they get a coupla good hits into you, you dont want to stay around. A lowered damage output (by EVERY weapon) would contribute a lot to the game, and bring more skill than luck, and prolong fights more. Hopefully it would discourage instinctive/obsessive stealthing too. (Although excessive stealthing seems to give a much harder drugflash now)
JOATS ? ha... in the world of specialisation ? PE's *can* do more, but not at the same time.
EDIT : Yay 500 posts :D
as a tank i dont so much have a problem with PEs having stealth(even if my own PE doesnt use it) the problem is that a lot of PEs hit the stealth before you can even get more than 1 shot off, they they must have to repair there stealth tool once a day for the useage they get from it.
if they dont want to fight go a trade skiller and sit in plaza, if ya do want a fight stop stealthing around like a bitch and start fighting.
very few PEs i fear fighting, ive not met a stealther i couldnt beat(though a few i aint fought yet) now i aint the best tank around, so you could argue that for the fact that i can take most PEs down easy shows that theres a problem with PEs. but i just think some of them are so used to hitting the stealth tool that they have forgot how to fight as a PE
heh, I actually want damage increased across the board to make
the fights shorter and more realistic :P ah well.
Anyone ever start reading a thread with every intention of posting a well thought out reply, only to go through the stages of angsty-thread syndrome before you reach the end? I started with mild amusement and now I'm feel nothing but despair and frustration. Sheesh. I'm worn out and I haven't even posted yet.
See? Now you've done it :D
My mind has gone blank and any hope of voicing my support for Stealthing PE's has gone. All I can manage right now is:
What Rade said.
EDIT: You could be right, ezza, but I'm pretty sure that as each new "toy" is introduced to the game, the way a PE fights is going to continue to evolve. I doubt we will see many more PE's of old
Ozambabbaz
22-03-04, 15:46
i needz0r nerfing... i hack TL 90 selfbuffed, drive the rhino with an Imp-switch, blow up ur ditched vehicle with an anti-vhc-RL, heal capped, kill afk APUs with my 141RoF PE and stealth away when ur outta synch, shit, gimme an SA and i'll poke myself between hack2-vhc3-dw2 and make the trade-nc channel spammy when ur 3rd person muleteer gets annoyed with my wh0re tactics
I luv j00 ozam :P
However, just for the record, Im not against modifying stealth so
that it becomes more fun. For example having time limit between
stealths, or between shooting and stealthing etc.
Originally posted by Rade
I luv j00 ozam :P
However, just for the record, Im not against modifying stealth so
that it becomes more fun. For example having time limit between
stealths, or between shooting and stealthing etc.
What about what I posted earlier then? Like Stealth 1 requires that you have at least 75% HP. 2 needs 50%, 3 needs 25%, Oblit 0%. Doesn't stop you stealthing when you want to be stealthy, but if you choose to fight then you can't just stealth away after taking a few pot shots.
i think all low tech pe's like myself agree that stealth is not needed on a pe o_O
Originally posted by Scikar
What about what I posted earlier then? Like Stealth 1 requires that you have at least 75% HP. 2 needs 50%, 3 needs 25%, Oblit 0%. Doesn't stop you stealthing when you want to be stealthy, but if you choose to fight then you can't just stealth away after taking a few pot shots.
Well, I just feel that relating it to your HPs is weird somehow, Id
rather see a timer between firing a shot and stealthing.
Really, this discussion is wierd.
To be honest i don't see any problem with stealthers. This is just a tool - it doesn't give u immortality, it doesn't make u fight better (on the contrary, stealthers are usually much easier to kill) - it just allows u to dissapear for a few seconds...
As a melee tank i've never had any problems with stealthers, spies can snipe me, but i can avoid them, hide and heal quite easily. PEs can attack me then stealth and run. That's true, but still don't see a problem here - it's impossible to win using shoot& stealth tactics only, because he will get at least twice more hits than me (one free hit while he draws his weapon out and another one while switching stealth on). And if PE/spy got down to 1/5 health and steath&run then fight is over (at least for now), additionally with some luck u can easily kill such stealther with aoe.
True this is annoying when u fight stealther for an hour without any results, but it goes both ways. He can't kill u without fully engaging in a fight. And if he don't want to take the risk, he stealths away and u win. Where's the problem then?
Really, i've never died to a stealther PE, but i'm dieing often to stealthers who actually engage into fight. It's pretty reasonable for them to use stealth as a tactical advantage and suprise u. If he got lucky he can get some free shots and win, but it's a fair fight - really don't see anything wrong with it. If i got lucky i can kill stealther with aoe - same situation. If he just appear shoot once and stealths he's not a threat. Simply as it is.
az
Originally posted by Ozambabbaz
i needz0r nerfing... i hack TL 90 selfbuffed, drive the rhino with an Imp-switch, blow up ur ditched vehicle with an anti-vhc-RL, heal capped, kill afk APUs with my 141RoF PE and stealth away when ur outta synch, shit, gimme an SA and i'll poke myself between hack2-vhc3-dw2 and make the trade-nc channel spammy when ur 3rd person muleteer gets annoyed with my wh0re tactics
[edited violation of fourm rules][freya]
-----------------------------------------------
[edited][freya]
Im not too fussed if it gets removed it's nice to have but not essential personally ithink it sorta weakens the PE in a far-out way (people stealth off from fights rather and stay and fight which imo only hurts their skill) but if your some whiney tit you wants it nerfed 'cause someone got away well then maybe you should get better at hunting them?
any you tards say you get better tank resists + damage then you need to actually try setting said PE up because if you can do it then you must be the almighty.
Originally posted by Barak
any you tards say you get better tank resists + damage then you need to actually try setting said PE up because if you can do it then you must be the almighty.
Fang's done it, XaNToR's done it.
Bow down before them and worship, bitch!
El_Muerko, you really need to calm down, snow was obviously talking about PE's and stealth from the view of fighting 1v1, or 2v2 etc, not full scale op wars.
In that context, he is right mostly.
Hell, most PE's dont even bother to go to op wars anymore, they log their monk/tank/spy alt and go.
Stealth doesnt fix PE's at op wars, it helps a bit, but it doesnt fix it.
Barak its piss easy as long as your willing to take atleast 3 drugs.
I honestly think the only thing that is wrong with PEs is stealth i dont care if they can do as much damage as a tank and have the same or better resists, that doesnt bother me what bothers me is that they one have an invinciblity tool as long as you dont have an ppu with true sight about and two they generally bitch and moan about how they arent balanced because of ppus involvement at op wars so they keep saying they should be boosted rather then balancing ppus which put everything out of balance and if sorted would balance their class along with all others.
Oh and el meurto Ive done up a skill manager PE setup that should cap RoLH damage, I think 185 pc and 123 weapon lore should do that easily, has better resists then tanks and nearly as much body health but I cant post it mainly because its based on rabbi fangs setup which I dont know exactly but have a rough idea and because I cant be arsed to find somebody to host it.
Originally posted by Celt
Stealth doesnt fix PE's at op wars, it helps a bit, but it doesnt fix it.
Yeah I had true sight up at jeriko last night which meant eva couldnt stealth so accidently killed her oopsy on my part.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Barak its piss easy as long as your willing to take atleast 3 drugs.
Which is the problem, you cant. So make one where you take 0
drugs.
Originally posted by Rade
Which is the problem, you cant. So make one where you take 0
drugs.
How do you make a RoLH setup without using drugs?
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
How do you make a RoLH setup without using drugs?
How do you make a VIABLE RoLH setup without drugs?
you dont.
Maxed Dex + SF + SA + SR + Balance Advancer 3 + Experimental reflex booster 4 + PA4
ROLH with no drugs OMG UB3R L337 PE SETuPP N3RF! N3RF! N3RF!
Sure you'll be using Inq 1 anfdget 70ish in both fire and energy from armour but hey with Snows ub3r magic con setup i'm sure you'll still take less dmg than a maxed tank :)
meh since when has any PE weapon out-damaged a Cs or dev? unless i've missed somthing
Tank resists is the easy bits but getting offence that matchs..
Originally posted by L0KI
How do you make a VIABLE RoLH setup without drugs?
you dont.
Funny, the setup I have been using since the PE PA came in and
used to beat everyone with is with RoLH and no drugs.
i used to use RoLH without drugs and pwnd rifles now though more of a challenge
Damn El_MUERkO, there goes my uber secret Silent Hunter setup ;)
Of, for all you people saying that PE stealth should stay, let me lay out the exact scenario that happened last night.
Firs off, my PE is pure lowtech rifle, whose resists are quite good.
I went to MB as a Tsunami to extort some CA newbs (i.e. - RP a Tsunami thug by telling them to pay for a "life insurance" policy or they might "accidentally" get shot, etc.) When I was heading back from the bunker, I came across Yinyin on his PE and proceeded to open fire. Apparently, I managed to catch him off guard, because he didn't have his shelter up. We fought for a while, and when he had about 5% HP left, he pulls out his stealth tool and goes to hide and heal.
He then came back fully buffed and healed and killed me.
Now, whoever is first to point out the glaring imbalance in this scanario gets a cookie.
--Stryfe
Originally posted by StryfeX
because he didn't have his shelter up. We fought for a while, and when he had about 5% HP left, he pulls out his stealth tool and goes to hide and heal.
Good thing he didn't have that up i hear its a real bitch for low tech pe's ^^
I see the imbalance.
One PE had a high intelligence, the other did not :D
Originally posted by Candaman
Good thing he didn't have that up i hear its a real bitch for low tech pe's ^^ It is, but so is deflector (which he had up.) My point was that if you catch someone with their pants down, you should be able to kill them if you're good enough. I know I'm not one of those "ub3r l33t" players but I do have enough skill that he would have died had he not stealthed like a pansy.
--Stryfe
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Maxed Dex + SF + SA + SR + Balance Advancer 3 + Experimental reflex booster 4 + PA4
ROLH with no drugs OMG UB3R L337 PE SETuPP N3RF! N3RF! N3RF!
Sure you'll be using Inq 1 anfdget 70ish in both fire and energy from armour but hey with Snows ub3r magic con setup i'm sure you'll still take less dmg than a maxed tank :)
Snow said you'd need at least 1, and probably 3.
Now you're just sounding silly.
I can do op wars fine using paratemol forte and whiteflash.
I dont see the problem stryfe, why couldnt you heal up just as
fast as he did?
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Maxed Dex + SF + SA + SR + Balance Advancer 3 + Experimental reflex booster 4 + PA4
ROLH with no drugs OMG UB3R L337 PE SETuPP N3RF! N3RF! N3RF!
Sure you'll be using Inq 1 anfdget 70ish in both fire and energy from armour but hey with Snows ub3r magic con setup i'm sure you'll still take less dmg than a maxed tank :)
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming]Im not going to post a setup thats basically somebody elses
Special Riggers is a wasted imp slot and the balance advancer nerfs str too much to be worth using, you have to be able to use atleast inq 2 armour and inq 3 if you can.
Originally posted by Rade
I dont see the problem stryfe, why couldnt you heal up just as
fast as he did?
and then the fight lasts...forever?
o_O
Stealth is no big problem a monk can kill stealthers easy so can a droner - it is not impossible to beat - tag a droner with para he pops a drug when he comes out of stealth again para again keep on him it's not too hard.
I do see its unfair on lone Tanks/monks but why the hell should a PE go up against a foe with superior weaponry without some kind of backup plan.
meh remove it im not to fussed i just use it to reign hell on Hacker, snipers And people begging for a ppu :)
/Also if someone cares to show me a setup with better defence and offence then a tank without drugging to fuck lemme see.
Originally posted by Rade
I dont see the problem stryfe, why couldnt you heal up just as
fast as he did? well stryfe is TS and yinyin is crahn thus making him much leeter than the TS runner.
well thats my story and im sticking to it:D
Ozambabbaz
22-03-04, 17:46
i vote for a sticky "how to survive stealthers" thread, [edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming]
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
and then the fight lasts...forever?
o_O
Only if they dont know how to catch a stealther. Funny tho
because I never have a problem catching people who only use
stealth 1. Stealth 2 and up can get trickier tho.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
[edited for consistency -- Vithar]Im not going to post a setup thats basically somebody elses
Special Riggers is a wasted imp slot and the balance advancer nerfs str too much to be worth using, you have to be able to use atleast inq 2 armour and inq 3 if you can.
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- flaming], but Im not going to explain what muerko is
doing that you are not seeing because somehow I lost the
interest in giving you free lessons. Its all simple math really.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Originally posted by -=Bl@de=-
[edited for consistency]
do me a favor say Mercs on saturn opposed to mercs in general ;)
Just to throw out the setups I was using.
SA - SF - Moto3 - Balistic3 - Reflex4 - PA4:
108 Dex for RoLH
70 Int for Stealth II
SA - SF - Distance3 - Moveon - Exp. Reflex4 - PA3:
100 Dex for Judge
68 Int so Stealth I
I'm a bit exigent with speed, so I am always in 80+ AGL/ATL, and don't like to use drugs (altho beast is wonderful, I wish Destrosol Forte was like this drug).
There are more setups tho, you have to find one that you like.
On my PE I poke TL 115, but if you decide to go for full combat or hack, then damage might be capped in RoLH... I cap Judge.
I used to drug sometimes for Executioner, if we finally get its TL dropped to 110 I might change implant setups to use it without drugs. I know that most likely won't cap damage on it.. but still trying to find a way :p
Originally posted by Barak
do me a favor say Mercs on saturn opposed to mercs in general ;)
Mercs on saturn ;)
Originally posted by Rade
I dont see the problem stryfe, why couldnt you heal up just as
fast as he did? I did. But the problem here is that stealth is essentially a "get out of jail free" card when used in 1v1 situations when at extremely low health.
Also, since I am not (as I said before) one of those "ub3r l33t" players, surprise and speed are great assets to me. I had surprise on my side and I would have won... had it not been for stealth.
If nothing else, stealth needs to have a % HP requirement to activate it, because PEs bugging out of legitmate fights at 5% health is just naff.
--Stryfe
Originally posted by Barak
meh since when has any PE weapon out-damaged a Cs or dev? unless i've missed somthing
Tank resists is the easy bits but getting offence that matchs..
Before the patch that boosted CS, RoLH did more damage at point blank range (which is the only effective range of CS anyway), and RoG dealt equal damage.
I admit actually, I can't see much reason to use PEs. But I also think stealth is over the top, at least in its current state. I'd like to see it made health dependant or replaced with a different toy.
Originally posted by L0KI
REMOVE SPECIALISATION
If nothing more, it will be SO SO SO fun.
**hands Rabbi a really really big cookie**
Specialisation is the biggest balance-fucker and fun-killer in this game.
**hopes that ccokie doesn't have a 40 PSI requirement**
Originally posted by Scikar
Before the patch that boosted CS, RoLH did more damage at point blank range (which is the only effective range of CS anyway), and RoG dealt equal damage.
I admit actually, I can't see much reason to use PEs. But I also think stealth is over the top, at least in its current state. I'd like to see it made health dependant or replaced with a different toy.
yepp that heal % thingy is a very good idea.. you should start a poll about that
Originally posted by StryfeX
I did. But the problem here is that stealth is essentially a "get out of jail free" card when used in 1v1 situations when at extremely low health.
Also, since I am not (as I said before) one of those "ub3r l33t" players, surprise and speed are great assets to me. I had surprise on my side and I would have won... had it not been for stealth.
If nothing else, stealth needs to have a % HP requirement to activate it, because PEs bugging out of legitmate fights at 5% health is just naff.
--Stryfe
So Lowtech PE vs Hitech PE
You catch him by surprise hit him with DB and para, then shoot. If he stealths he'll either be easy to follow or he'll use 10 seconds taking drugs.
I don't have a lot of trouble with stealth PE's.
If you plan attacks there is always a way to win if you have the skill.
(Note: I don't always win but thats coz a lot of people are better than me :p )
Originally posted by Rade
[edited for consistency -- Vithar], but Im not going to explain what muerko is
doing that you are not seeing because somehow I lost the
interest in giving you free lessons. Its all simple math really.
No wonder you think PEs are nerfed if you use a levelling setup like that for pvp
Sleawer, stealth 2 is 75 int so you wont get that with your second setup.
Snow, you should explore how to set up PEs a bit more before
pouncing on what people say because you just look like a fool to
those that actually know how to set them up.
Originally posted by Scikar
Before the patch that boosted CS, RoLH did more damage at point blank range (which is the only effective range of CS anyway), and RoG dealt equal damage.
yeah pre patch but post patch is all that matters and im sure things will prob only get worse the way kk work.
/and for some reason rog always sucked imo o_O
//the RoLH has been nerfed a little now tho hasnt it?
Originally posted by Scikar
Before the patch that boosted CS, RoLH did more damage at point blank range (which is the only effective range of CS anyway), and RoG dealt equal damage.
Perhaps when you calculate the maximum possible damage the
RoLH and RoG can do, but when you calculate the _actual_
damage numbers this is quite far from the truth. This is one
reason that I distrust some of Lupus tests. It doesnt matter if a
Judge does three times the damage of a CS when the user has
250 P-C, its the damage with a realistic amount of P-C that
matters when you try to balance classes against eachother. And
with realistic numbers CS outdamage those weapons by far.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
[edited for consistency -- Vithar]Im not going to post a setup thats basically somebody elses
Special Riggers is a wasted imp slot and the balance advancer nerfs str too much to be worth using, you have to be able to use atleast inq 2 armour and inq 3 if you can.
You asked how it was possable to use a ROLH wihtout drugs and there it is :/
And given the the loss of strenght you cant get a con setup as good as a tank.
Now your back to drugs again, shit I could use a bunch of drugs and resist boosters and own all on my PE but thats beside the point.
YOU cant show me a setup that allows a PE to Max a ROLH + use stealth + have the con setup of tank quality without bringing drugs into the picture.
I ask again, why should PEs have to use drugs to compete in PvP?
Originally posted by Rade
Perhaps when you calculate the maximum possible damage the
RoLH and RoG can do, but when you calculate the _actual_
damage numbers this is quite far from the truth. This is one
reason that I distrust some of Lupus tests. It doesnt matter if a
Judge does three times the damage of a CS when the user has
250 P-C, its the damage with a realistic amount of P-C that
matters when you try to balance classes against eachother. And
with realistic numbers CS outdamage those weapons by far.
er.. yeah i agree with the Last bit rest of it i can't say anything as i have never read the reports and what have you
Originally posted by Rade
Perhaps when you calculate the maximum possible damage the
RoLH and RoG can do, but when you calculate the _actual_
damage numbers this is quite far from the truth. This is one
reason that I distrust some of Lupus tests. It doesnt matter if a
Judge does three times the damage of a CS when the user has
250 P-C, its the damage with a realistic amount of P-C that
matters when you try to balance classes against eachother. And
with realistic numbers CS outdamage those weapons by far.
CS outdamages them anyway now, but those tests didn't take into account CS missing, which I think makes up for the fact that RoF on RoG and RoLH wouldn't be capped.
That's beside the point anyway now.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
You asked how it was possable to use a ROLH wihtout drugs and there it is :/
And given the the loss of strenght you cant get a con setup as good as a tank.
Now your back to drugs again, shit I could use a bunch of drugs and resist boosters and own all on my PE but thats beside the point.
YOU cant show me a setup that allows a PE to Max a ROLH + use stealth + have the con setup of tank quality without bringing drugs into the picture.
I ask again, why should PEs have to use drugs to compete in PvP?
Why do you need a RoLH to compete in PvP?
Read the whole post and you'll see that I'm not, I'm just arguing a point with Snow.
Why do some people insist that PE's need drugs to be PvPable?
My PE's never use drugs unless its for leveling purposes.
If you use a libby and you know how to use a libby correctly you can compete in pvp quite easily without using drugs you cant use a blatently stupid and non-viable setup like what you said.
But if you want to use high tech weapons which are meant to be spy weapons you are going to have to drug to use them effectively if you are unwilling to use drugs to optimise your setup dont expect to be uber, and btw everytime I say spies should be able to be combat viable without drugs ie inq armour or spy dex/int armour I get whined down by the likes of Rade about you have to drug to pvp as a spy and hes being hypocritical throughout this thread in saying that PEs shouldnt have to use drugs yet he think spies should.
Originally posted by Zanathos
Why do some people insist that PE's need drugs to be PvPable?
My PE's never use drugs unless its for leveling purposes.
They really should remove the resist drugs. I never take any drugs for duels and those "uber" pes that take 8 think they are so fucking great. Yeah I could over cap runspeed and get my resists to like 155 but I dont have time to do that in a real fight. That is why I never go to fight night....
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
But if you want to use high tech weapons which are meant to be spy weapons you are going to have to drug to use them effectively if you are unwilling to use drugs to optimise your setup dont expect to be uber
o_O
hmmm.....
my judge using private eye has comparable resists to a liberator using private eye.
or does that 0.60 % greater resists really help that much?
oh yeah, and he has 50 more hit points.
trust me, ive made the best possible setups without drugs for both types of private eyes.
..........
o_O
Originally posted by Siygess
Anyone ever start reading a thread with every intention of posting a well thought out reply, only to go through the stages of angsty-thread syndrome before you reach the end? I started with mild amusement and now I'm feel nothing but despair and frustration. Sheesh. I'm worn out and I haven't even posted yet.
See? Now you've done it :D
My mind has gone blank and any hope of voicing my support for Stealthing PE's has gone. All I can manage right now is:
What Rade said.
EDIT: You could be right, ezza, but I'm pretty sure that as each new "toy" is introduced to the game, the way a PE fights is going to continue to evolve. I doubt we will see many more PE's of old
Exactly.
I went to sleep after posting actively on this thread and I come back with it being 10 pages or something. >.<
snow - now you are blatantly lying. Either that or you cant read. I
never said that spies should have to drug, Ive advocated spies to
get a boost through toys all over these forums EVEN IN THIS
THREAD. Ive said that spies _CAN_ drug to become as powerfull
as PEs. Theres a huge difference there.
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 20:28
Originally posted by Zanathos
my judge using private eye has comparable resists to a liberator using private eye.
or does that 0.60 % greater resists really help that much?
oh yeah, and he has 50 more hit points.
trust me, ive made the best possible setups without drugs for both types of private eyes.
Comparable yes, but the judge with ppr/moveon is utterly gimped without drugs (imo, either you are slow as fuck or get shitty rof).
Libby setups can use str imps as well (to get inq/dura3), and possibly titan/viper.
The lack of TC means far more agl, less pc required means more agl, which means less atl which together means much better defences than the gimped judge user.
PS, making statements like that last one will not get you anywhere here.
Originally posted by Rade
snow - now you are blatantly lying. Either that or you cant read. I
never said that spies should have to drug, Ive advocated spies to
get a boost through toys all over these forums EVEN IN THIS
THREAD. Ive said that spies _CAN_ drug to become as powerfull
as PEs. Theres a huge difference there.
So, you say spies arent as powerful as PE's undrugged, but if they drug they can be.
What is that, but a roundabout way of saying that spies need to drug to be truly good in pvp?(not that I agree with that, but that's what you seem to be hinting at)
Originally posted by Drake6k
They really should remove the resist drugs. I never take any drugs for duels and those "uber" pes that take 8 think they are so fucking great. Yeah I could over cap runspeed and get my resists to like 155 but I dont have time to do that in a real fight. That is why I never go to fight night....
lies!
I saw you at the last one
my run speed is fine on my PE, his health is 400
he has 140 in speed when you add agility and athletics together.
he caps damange and aiming on a judge, but not rate of fire, but i couldnt care less in that case anyways.
well, its just the way I like playing my private eye on saturn.
but this thread makes we want to make a private eye on pluto that doesnt use stealth. no TC at all.....
.....
when i get home im gonna make a new setup for such a character without power armor (although I can get better energy, fire and xray resist with power armor.... but i dont want the power armor or stealth)
Originally posted by Zanathos
trust me, ive made the best possible setups without drugs for both types of private eyes.
Well, then you know that the 0.6% comes out as something
around 16% real reduction and thus is a fucking big deal.
Originally posted by Rade
To begin with "good PEs" doesnt necesarily have better defence
Any GOOD PE should have high defense, thats what the PE is about. You wanna use tl101+ weapons, go spy you will have the same defense as a PE but get higher stats on your weapons.
Any GOOD PE uses a pp/mo setup and a weapon that can fit in.
Personally I find a PE using boh/rolh/slasher/exe laughable because my spy honestly takes less dmg and has the same amount of HP as them, yet some of them don't even cap dmg on thier weapons lol
Originally posted by Rade
Well, then you know that the 0.6% comes out as something
around 16% real reduction and thus is a fucking big deal.
not really a big deal to me, but hey, i prefer to play my private eyes the way i like to play them.
sure there sort of cookie cutter, but meh, most setups are cookie cutter anyways.
at any rate, when i get home, ill be makin myself a new private eye setup and that will be my character on pluto.
guess ill have to just get used to using stamina drugs..... as thats why i mostly use the judge.
and its easier to hit with it IMO.
no PA..... no drugs..... no tech combat..... no stealth
reason why i use stealth on my private eye is simply because I can with my setup.
guess ill get to see how private eyes managed when they didnt have there fancy new items.
this gets me wondering though.....
what the hell did spies do before stealth?
omg hax. nerf teh tank. they can use stealth too! One time I remember I almost killed a tank and he stealthed away!!!111oneoneone
Soo lame! I brought him down to 5% and he stealthed and came back later and killed me fully healed. He surprised me! Even though I knew he was already there. :mad:
And he only took 4 drugs!
Moral of the story: Don't judge a class by how well they can use drugs. It's silly.
Originally posted by El_MUERkO
Read the whole post and you'll see that I'm not, I'm just arguing a point with Snow.
Ah OK, I started skipping posts after the waves of deja vu made me dizzy.
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 20:46
Originally posted by Zanathos
he has 140 in speed when you add agility and athletics together.
he caps damange and aiming on a judge, but not rate of fire, but i couldnt care less in that case anyways.
140 is.. appaling, that's 70/70, I have 160+ and I consider myself to be slower than a moose on weed.
dmg and aiming on a judge is piss easy to cap and anyone not capping them need to be shot, and haveing less than 160 rpm regardless of defence is just horrible.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
140 is.. appaling, that's 70/70, I have 160+ and I consider myself to be slower than a moose on weed.
dmg and aiming on a judge is piss easy to cap and anyone not capping them need to be shot, and haveing less than 160 rpm regardless of defence is just horrible.
160 isn't that bad, all my pe's land around there
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
140 is.. appaling, that's 70/70, I have 160+ and I consider myself to be slower than a moose on weed.
dmg and aiming on a judge is piss easy to cap and anyone not capping them need to be shot, and haveing less than 160 rpm regardless of defence is just horrible.
well, guess what? its how I like to play.
ONOS Im not totally cookie cutter!
:rolleyes:
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 20:50
Gah, need at least 200+ :p.
zanny, gort, anyone, Ill still fight any of you on test server if you
want to compare dicks. Funny how no one ever takes me up on
that tho. And really gort, the only lowtech PE that gives me a
match is vet, the rest has been pushovers.
actually zanny the weird part is that first you say that your chars
are perfect, then when people point out flaws in them you say
thats how you want to play. Hello? Look I have a char with all cst
and t-c, gimped? No, its HOW I LIKE TO PLAY.
since when was i comparing my genital size to others?
i stated my PE's setup, i said it works for me and i like it, and people are (sort of) flaming me for it.
and id take you up on your offer if i could get on the test server.
every time i try to, the server is down or loms arent working.
even then, thats not what the test server is for....
Originally posted by Rade
zanny, gort, anyone, Ill still fight any of you on test server if you
want to compare dicks. Funny how no one ever takes me up on
that tho. And really gort, the only lowtech PE that gives me a
match is vet, the rest has been pushovers.
Ya, and me and vet are basically even in wins/losses pe vs pe. Matter of fact, libby vs libby I took him out a few more times then he did me. Hrmm...If you didn't play on a nib server with 40 people online at night, I would duel you in a second. But I can't be arsed to make a char in a ghosttown.
As I have said before, to replicate my main PE's setup on test server I would have to do too much works like epics and gun finding, not worth my time.
A facts a fact....PE is made to use tl 100 and below, spies are made to use tl 105 and above i mean its just that simple, if you can't see it you really don't know what you're doing.
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 20:56
I'm not saying I r having big wing wang, my wing wang is small.
Everyone knows I'm shit in PvP (and noone say I am, you know I'm not, I can't even begin to compare myself with xan, rabbi, rade QD or anyone with any skill).
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 20:59
A facts a fact....PE is made to use tl 100 and below, spies are made to use tl 105 and above i mean its just that simple, if you can't see it you really don't know what you're doing.
REMOVE PE PA AND REMOVE STEALTH!
Problems solved.
Zoneseek, 110% agree.
BTW, Me > Vet :p
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 21:00
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
140 is.. appaling, that's 70/70, I have 160+ and I consider myself to be slower than a moose on weed.
don't forget fps affects how fast you run, at least on your screen.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
BTW, Me > Vet :p
You faught his tank when he had basically no fps, and his main is his PE....at least he was manly enough to fight out of practice with shit fps.
Try him in Neofrag on his PE and trust me when I say....you will be surprised when you see his HP at the end of hte fight :p
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 21:02
Try him in Neofrag on his PE and trust me when I say....you will be surprised when you see his HP at the end of hte fight
LOL u dont think I had bad FPS?
Yeah im aware his PE is his main :)
All the same, me sexing his body, 2:0 in duels when i had 8fps does it for me :p
Originally posted by g0rt
You faught his tank when he had basically no fps, and his main is his PE....at least he was manly enough to fight out of practice with shit fps.
Try him in Neofrag on his PE and trust me when I say....you will be surprised when you see his HP at the end of hte fight :p
by making vet look better he makes himself look better. :)
Originally posted by g0rt
Ya, and me and vet are basically even in wins/losses pe vs pe. Matter of fact, libby vs libby I took him out a few more times then he did me. Hrmm...If you didn't play on a nib server with 40 people online at night, I would duel you in a second. But I can't be arsed to make a char in a ghosttown.
As I have said before, to replicate my main PE's setup on test server I would have to do too much works like epics and gun finding, not worth my time.
A facts a fact....PE is made to use tl 100 and below, spies are made to use tl 105 and above i mean its just that simple, if you can't see it you really don't know what you're doing.
Wait. I can take vet, which you admit you have about 50/50 with,
and I dont know what Im doing? Wtf are you on about?
Originally posted by Varaem
by making vet look better he makes himself look better. :)
What can I say, ive only entered three pvp tournaments on saturn, each one I had about 2 weeks of practice on my PE beforehand and I won all three of them. If I actually practice on my PE i highly doubt people can take me more then 50% of the time.
@Rade: your story differs from vet :lol: according to him you aren't all that grand, funny how things can be seen from different angles
Anyway sorry but no offense, if you still play pluto you can't be that good...I mean anyone that really likes to pvp has moved over to saturn months and months ago to avoid boredom. With that being said, having one char slot doesn't exactly open anyone up to alot of expiramentation with different classes, and you are one of those "vets" that quit the game for a few months and came back. Can't say I respect the opinion of quitters. Ill say it once more....no pp/mo in your PE's head? You may as well go spy...
Id really like to know what everyone did in this game before power armor and stealth :p
I started playing the game before power armor was implemented but not long after they were.
i started playing while stealth was in the game.
seriously, what did everyone do before PA and stealth?
without those two things i bet you saw spies lieing dead everywhere you went :p
Originally posted by Zanathos
since when was i comparing my genital size to others?
i stated my PE's setup, i said it works for me and i like it, and people are (sort of) flaming me for it.
and id take you up on your offer if i could get on the test server.
every time i try to, the server is down or loms arent working.
even then, thats not what the test server is for....
You posted this earlier:
trust me, ive made the best possible setups without drugs for both types of private eyes.
Originally posted by Zanathos
Id really like to know what everyone did in this game before power armor and stealth :p
I started playing the game before power armor was implemented but not long after they were.
i started playing while stealth was in the game.
seriously, what did everyone do before PA and stealth?
without those two things i bet you saw spies lieing dead everywhere you went :p
You could count the number of pvp spies on each server on one hand.
Uranus was MrDust, mcfuckin'head, low-light.(all three rifle spies, was no such thing as pistol combat spies)
MjukisDjur
22-03-04, 21:13
I only have one answer to the poke issue...
I poked yesterday but after poking 8 people and receiving one tip I thought to myself: never again. Ill leave it to the people who got energy.
I always tip! No matter how little cash I have. Atleast 1k per imp.
And yes, remove the stealth for PE:s. Atleast make it so they cannot use anything more than the first on. Lvl 2 stealth on a pe is just plain silly. Unkillable
@gort
You're not the only one who has a history if winning things, ask
anyone on pluto how it ends when I attend to fightnight.
Last time I fought vet it was 3 at night wgere I live and I was
dead tired barely able to sit up straight. We fought 4 times and it
ended up 2-2, he cant deny that since we had alot of vitnesses.
Afterwards it was the usual talk about RoLH taking no skill and
whatnot. I dont doubt for a second that if I would actually have
been awake there would have been a different story.
And Im sorry, but you need to cut a serious amount of that idiotic
trashtalk if you expect me or anyone to have any respect for you.
What the fuck does my server has to do with anything? If you
havent noticed people enjoy different servers for different
reasons. I took a break for what, 3 months, what does that have
to do with anything? Do you even know why I took a break from
neocron? Who the fuck are you to judge me based on things you
dont even have a clue about?
And your excuses not to come and fight me on test server are
just lame. No moveon/PP resistor? As if you couldnt use drugs to
get the same benefit. Not that I am surprised tho, I think you are
the fourth cartel that talks big but then comes up with some lame
excuse when its time to prove it.
Now, you can say "no offence" all you want but then try to
change the content of your posts to, I dont know, not be
offending?
Originally posted by Rade
@gort
You're not the only one who has a history if winning things, ask
anyone on pluto how it ends when I attend to fightnight.
Last time I fought vet it was 3 at night wgere I live and I was
dead tired barely able to sit up straight. We fought 4 times and it
ended up 2-2, he cant deny that since we had alot of vitnesses.
Afterwards it was the usual talk about RoLH taking no skill and
whatnot. I dont doubt for a second that if I would actually have
been awake there would have been a different story.
And Im sorry, but you need to cut a serious amount of that idiotic
trashtalk if you expect me or anyone to have any respect for you.
What the fuck does my server has to do with anything? If you
havent noticed people enjoy different servers for different
reasons. I took a break for what, 3 months, what does that have
to do with anything? Do you even know why I took a break from
neocron? Who the fuck are you to judge me based on things you
dont even have a clue about?
And your excuses not to come and fight me on test server are
just lame. No moveon/PP resistor? As if you couldnt use drugs to
get the same benefit. Not that I am surprised tho, I think you are
the fourth cartel that talks big but then comes up with some lame
excuse when its time to prove it.
Now, you can say "no offence" all you want but then try to
change the content of your posts to, I dont know, not be
offending?
Meh, I play neocron to have fun. Installing the test server and setting up mirror images of chars that I spent weeks building properly isn't my idea of a good time.
Im telling you, you want a fight? Come to saturn and make a PE and ill fight you. If you don't come on saturn, you're making a lame excuse not to fight me. Onos looks like the work has switched over onto YOUR head now hasn't it!
Anyway, as I said....you just aren't as good as you think. People that quit the game, come back, play on one-char servers thier whole life, etc are just legends in thier own minds. I know because I used to be a pluto noob too, thinking the world of neocron revolved around me. How shocking it was to see that the level of skill elsewhere far exceeds it.
So...ill cya in a few weeks on saturn, if not...I guess you pussied out :(
edit oh and btw, when I played on pluto I saw you fight multiple times...needless to say I wasn't impressed. Sure alot changes in a year, holy shit its been almost a year since i played there :p, but still I can tell you're just one of those guys who thinks they are the top but in reality are nowhere near it...and I love being the one to take them down. Cya soon ;d
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 21:27
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- spam]
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 21:27
LOL @ zoneseek and Rade.
Well, I went onto Pluto the other day, and asked if Rade was about (on a friends PE)
LOL everyone quickly said something along the lines of "no shes shite" or "NO shes a cow"
So, I was like, hmm, Not my kinda server, sounds too much like saturn :eek:
And with the population of pluto rade, I dont doubt your the best PE there, theres like 2 people there.
o_O
Saturn is where its at, when U fight along the likes of the players here, theres a new president on 'skill'
Even shadowdancer dabbles in Saturn, He owes me 1million credits :angel:
Originally posted by g0rt
Meh, I play neocron to have fun. Installing the test server and setting up mirror images of chars that I spent weeks building properly isn't my idea of a good time.
Im telling you, you want a fight? Come to saturn and make a PE and ill fight you. If you don't come on saturn, you're making a lame excuse not to fight me. Onos looks like the work has switched over onto YOUR head now hasn't it!
Anyway, as I said....you just aren't as good as you think. People that quit the game, come back, play on one-char servers thier whole life, etc are just legends in thier own minds. I know because I used to be a pluto noob too, thinking the world of neocron revolved around me. How shocking it was to see that the level of skill elsewhere far exceeds it.
So...ill cya in a few weeks on saturn, if not...I guess you pussied out :(
Are you seriously comparing installing the test server which takes
half an hour and dont even require you to be at the computer to
making a new char on a server you dont play on, cap him and get
all the gear? Does this makes sense in your head? Now I can
compare myself to Vet, and other people who have come to
pluto, you compare yourself to the same people, and this
somehow makes me less good than you? Cut the server BS and
come up with something better.
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 21:33
Are you seriously comparing installing the test server which takes
half an hour and dont even require you to be at the computer to
making a new char on a server you dont play on, cap him and get
all the gear? Does this makes sense in your head? Now I can
compare myself to Vet, and other people who have come to
pluto, you compare yourself to the same people, and this
somehow makes me less good than you? Cut the server BS and
come up with something better.
Rade I think zoneseek is purely saying, its an effort, as simple as that.
If you wish to fight him so much, U will make the effort to create a character on saturn.
Personally, I havnt faught zoneseek in a duel ever, as he most often plays his PPU.
So I really couldnt comment, but he always goes for me on his tank, which is humerous, and his tanks shit hot :cool:
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 21:34
Rade is good. Gort, if he beat vet and you compare yourself to vet, doesn't that mean Rade is good? O_o
I'd love to play saturn. Unfortunately typing someone's name in direct and having it appear 20 mins later, or clicking a spell and having it pull out 20 mins later is not my idea of fun.
Originally posted by Rade
Are you seriously comparing installing the test server which takes
half an hour and dont even require you to be at the computer to
making a new char on a server you dont play on, cap him and get
all the gear? Does this makes sense in your head? Now I can
compare myself to Vet, and other people who have come to
pluto, you compare yourself to the same people, and this
somehow makes me less good than you? Cut the server BS and
come up with something better.
Sucks to have the work swapped over to your head, huh? I simply don't feel like doing the work, its a few hours of my time wasted. So you do the work, would only benefit you...get a change of scenery, knock some sense into your head. Simply moving off pluto for a few weeks would probably take you down a notch alone. So now im saying, you wanna fight a bunch of cartel? Make a char on saturn, don't make ALL OF US do a bunch of work....its not gonna happen. But don't cry when me, element[], blade, etc bitch slap you back to pluto where you can be "king for a day" again.
As for the topic, PE's shouldn't have stealth. Its disheartening to know that there is no fear in fighting PE's anymore. It used to be like shit here comes a PE, better get ready for a good fight. Now its shit here comes a PE, get a ppu here with TSS asap and get your aoe weapons! 90%+ of PE's in this game are stealth whoring skilless twats to put it bluntly, if you need to stealth on a PE you shouldn't quit your day job.
I back removing stealth as a scapegoat measure 100%. Make it for one thing and one thing only...spying on enemy movement. Not avoiding death because you are fighting someone bette rthen you.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Rade is good. Gort, if he beat vet and you compare yourself to vet, doesn't that mean Rade is good? O_o
Rade says he beat vet, vet says he beat rade. So how do I make myself choose which one I believe? Based on what ive seen out of both of them. From what ive seen, Rade isn't anything special. Then again I havent played on pluto for a long time, but it still stands...what ive seen out of rade was never anything special.
As for saturn, yeah if it was like that I would probably go to Jupiter :p Good thing its not...
Clownst0pper
22-03-04, 21:45
Blade isnt anything special, hes a has been ;)
Personnally an inclusion of an inter server dueling ability would be tops, saves all this bitching :p
PEs should have stealth. Period.
If u can't kill a stealther than u're a weakling... I am rather mediocre pvper and never ever had any problems with stealthers...
In other words - this thread is pointless, it's not about argumentation but personal preferences (not mentioning ego topics hidden inside).
This whole forum is pointless. Remove it i say.... I don't like ppus - remove them...
SPAM
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Blade isnt anything special, hes a has been ;)
Personnally an inclusion of an inter server dueling ability would be tops, saves all this bitching :p
Inter server Neofrag would be AMAZING, absolutely amazing...but I doubt KK could pull it off. :(
Kaolin I try to take out the usefull players if I can, makes winning easier :p Thats why I usually start shit up with PRO before I go after the rest of FA hahah
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 21:49
Gort did you ask Vet if Rade beat him?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Gort did you ask Vet if Rade beat him?
Yes I talk to vet on a daily basis on TS. We spar in neofrag and raid tg/mb. I know vet well enough that I'll believe what he says.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Blade isnt anything special, hes a has been ;)
one word NIB koro's PE is a stealthin nib so nuff said about that.
Stealth should only be for SPYs imo, PEs who have to use it sux0r
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 21:52
Originally posted by g0rt
Yes I talk to vet on a daily basis on TS. We spar in neofrag and raid tg/mb. I know vet well enough that I'll believe what he says.
And what did he say? LOL
IIRC didn't they both beat each other?
Oh and as for your jupiter comment. Are you saying the majority of the time saturn doesn't lag?
first pistol PEs are overpowered, making stealth further enhancing to their power in solo fights, second whoever said pistol PEs are made for for weapons around 100 DEX, doesn't know what they are talking about.
The best pistol PEs on Uranus and those who win the tournaments on jupiter are the ones using the high TL 105+ weapons and drugs. Judge, ROLH and Exe. are the best pistols a PE could use. Exe does ridiculous amounts of damage, which is why the winner on the jupiter pvp tournament was a exe PE.
Gort seems to have a very high view of his own abilities, and vet as well but my guess is they just spend half of their time ganking half healthed <<< n00bs in MB bukers and call themselves good. People who are usually good e.g Xantor and QD do not boost about their own abilities. good Pistol PEs with low TL pistols can't even scratch my Rifle PE using the HL, I really hope you are not that bad gort...
It's funny, you say this in every PE thread Xylaz, yet you never seem to back it up. Consider the options available to a Tank:
AoE? When you can't see him? To get close enough to see the PE means hurting yourself with the AoE, and try it on a 56k modem - you'll never hit.
Freezer weapons? Antishock works in less than 1 second. Stealth lasts 10.
Heal? The whole point of him stealthing is to heal up and come back to fight again. My tank heal is almost as good as a PE heal so he's gonna get plenty back from that. Basically while he's shooting me I'm supposed to cast a heal on him?
The DoT weapons available to me last less than a second in their stacks, so they're no good. And I'm not gimping my heal for a fireball.
What are your chars on Pluto? Because I'd love to demonstrate how easy it is for a stealth PE to counter anything a Tank can throw at him to take him down.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And what did he say? LOL
IIRC didn't they both beat each other?
Oh and as for your jupiter comment. Are you saying the majority of the time saturn doesn't lag?
They both say 2-2. But they both also say they were off. Rade says if he wasn't tired/etc he would have taken it 3-1 or 4-0. Vet says if he wasn't having an off day and there wasn't a bunch of specs he would have taken it 3-1 or 4-0. So thats the story, sitting in the middle I have to decide for myself who I feel is better.
Saturn lags on sundays and sometimes when theres HGUE op fights aka server vs cartel fights :p
Doesn't lag much the rest of the time...
Originally posted by Rai Wong
Gort seems to have a very high view of his own abilities, and vet as well but my guess is they just spend half of their time ganking half healthed <<< n00bs in MB bukers and call themselves good. People who are usually good e.g Xantor and QD do not boost about their own abilities. good Pistol PEs with low TL pistols can't even scratch my Rifle PE using the HL, I really hope you are not that bad gort...
Was at two fight nights at uranus...ill leave it at this:
Meh...
Took QD down under 50hp with a 70-base con tank and a tpc in a duel. Nuff said.
As a player of all 3 english servers I will go forth and say Uranus has least skills. As for killing noobs, ya vet does it to make them log alts, I don't bother...most of my time is spent on the op battlefield or practicing in Neofrag. Im sure I could make Uranus eat out of the palm of my hand if I could even be arsed to cap a char there...
Ozambabbaz
22-03-04, 21:59
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- spam]
Originally posted by g0rt
Was at two fight nights at uranus...ill leave it at this:
Meh...
Took QD down under 50hp with a 70-base con tank and a tpc in a duel. Nuff said.
As a player of all 3 english servers I will go forth and say Uranus has least skills. As for killing noobs, ya vet does it to make them log alts, I don't bother...most of my time is spent on the op battlefield or practicing in Neofrag. Im sure I could make Uranus eat out of the palm of my hand if I could even be arsed to cap a char there...
I thought QD doesn't play anymore I heard...., as you said an inter server NF would be nice....hell i'm for merging all the servers together....I would like to duel you on my rifle PE even he hacks and is gimped but hey I still cap aiming.and dmg on my HL....
You should try Xantor or GRiM or Slutsumi. as I said before I rarely see good people babling about their own abilities, because they don't need to
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 22:05
Rai I don't know what planet you live on, but I see good people boast of their abilities all the time. And QD(when he posted) did boast of his abilities alot. Trust me. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just the truth. :p
Originally posted by Rai Wong
I thought QD doesn't play anymore I heard...., as you said an inter server NF would be nice....hell i'm for merging all the servers together....I would like to duel you on my rifle PE even he hacks and is gimped but hey I still cap aiming.and dmg on my HL....
You should try Xantor or GRiM or Slutsumi. as I said before I rarely see good people babling about their own abilities, because they don't need to
Saw Xantor fight. Another meh....this was 6 or 7 months ago mind you.
But yeah, if you knew me at all you would know i never ego-post, but sometimes other people, such as rade up here, do it a little too much and I put it in gear just to take them down a notch, thats all.
So until you know me, don't make assumptions...doesn't look smart.
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 22:07
Originally posted by g0rt
Saw Xantor fight. Another meh....this was 6 or 7 months ago mind you.
But yeah, if you knew me at all you would know i never ego-post, but sometimes other people, such as rade up here, do it a little too much and I put it in gear just to take them down a notch, thats all.
So until you know me, don't make assumptions...doesn't look smart.
[edited for violation of the forum rules -- spam]
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
[edited for consistency -- Vithar]
I think thats a sign that :
a) the IQ of people reading this thread has dropped
b) its time to close the thread
c) is just meant to be some form of humor
:lol:
We all have good days and bad days. I would consider myself good but tbh Im not on the same level as Vet or Rade. They are both way better than most. Truthfully most PEs suck. :lol: It takes a hell of a lot of skill to play one. Which is why many are "stealth-whores," because they have to be. I am starting to hate the PE class because every damn BD on Pluto is a PE and we cant accomplish anything in that situation.
Seriously though Zone, Rade is as good as Vet is, in a duel mode any ways. Op wars, etc, are a completely different ball game and Ive had very little experience with either of them on that. I dont know your personaly skill but if you are equal to Vet, and Rade is equal to Vet, then you are probably close to each other. :p No sense arguing about it though, what does it matter anways? More important what does it have to do with PEs not having stealth?
Originally posted by g0rt
Saw Xantor fight. Another meh....this was 6 or 7 months ago mind you.
But yeah, if you knew me at all you would know i never ego-post, but sometimes other people, such as rade up here, do it a little too much and I put it in gear just to take them down a notch, thats all.
So until you know me, don't make assumptions...doesn't look smart.
meh I think you are just too full of yourself, I don't exatcly like the your whole server sucks attitude and how you can crush the entire world, as you said yourself you couldn't be bothered to move to Uranus what makes you think the good pvpers on Uranus would be bothered to make a new character in Saturn.
BTW xantor doesn' use a pp or move on and he does fine, in fact I know alot of good PEs who don't need pp or move on to be good. So unless you are on a much higher level...which you probably will saw you are on, but ah well this conversation has gone kinda personal..sorry..
Originally posted by Scikar
It's funny, you say this in every PE thread Xylaz, yet you never seem to back it up. Consider the options available to a Tank:
AoE? When you can't see him? To get close enough to see the PE means hurting yourself with the AoE, and try it on a 56k modem - you'll never hit
actually malediction is a stealther killer. Every HC tank will tell u this, ask around. And, uhm, the point of aoe is not to shoot at point blank, but to cover stealther with an area dmg. It's easy, just need some luck...
Freezer weapons? Antishock works in less than 1 second. Stealth lasts 10
true, but they will slow stealther down. Grenade launcher on the contrary works fine.
Heal? The whole point of him stealthing is to heal up and come back to fight again. My tank heal is almost as good as a PE heal so he's gonna get plenty back from that. Basically while he's shooting me I'm supposed to cast a heal on him?
i've never said anything like this.
The DoT weapons available to me last less than a second in their stacks, so they're no good. And I'm not gimping my heal for a fireball.
Because the point is NOT NECCESARILY to chase a stealther like madman, sometimes it's better to heal, buff and wait for him. To use HIS stealth to YOURs advantage
What are your chars on Pluto?
Pluto actually is ONE CHAR server so u should have asked: "what is ur char on Pluto?" And uhm... thought it should be obvious, but if i'm wrong maybe some other forum readers can give u some *pointers*...
Because I'd love to demonstrate how easy it is for a stealth PE to counter anything a Tank can throw at him to take him down.
Yeah, this is an advantage. Still, it doesn't bother me. Not at all.
az
OK, maybe i owe a bit of explanation. I don't see a problem with stealthers because PE is pretty hard class to play. It may give an unearthly advantage to all hail great uber (...) pvpers, but it simply helps a lot of common people. So it's fair to me.
Gotterdammerung
22-03-04, 22:20
g0rt & rade take your discussions to pm's. Some of your posts are borderline to say the least, you can't afford the edit and you know that.
Originally posted by Jest
We all have good days and bad days. I would consider myself good but tbh Im not on the same level as Vet or Rade. They are both way better than most. Truthfully most PEs suck. :lol: It takes a hell of a lot of skill to play one. Which is why many are "stealth-whores," because they have to be. I am starting to hate the PE class because every damn BD on Pluto is a PE and we cant accomplish anything in that situation.
Seriously though Zone, Rade is as good as Vet is, in a duel mode any ways. Op wars, etc, are a completely different ball game and Ive had very little experience with either of them on that. I dont know your personaly skill but if you are equal to Vet, and Rade is equal to Vet, then you are probably close to each other. :p No sense arguing about it though, what does it matter anways? More important what does it have to do with PEs not having stealth?
Nah, pistol PEs are piss easy to use...especially with stealth..especially on solo,...try rehealing yourself as a Tank when it heals 1 cm an hour..or APU..
lol, so many hurt egos in the air.
I was told the true PvP server right now is the DOY test server :)
Dribble Joy
22-03-04, 22:24
A tank heal is almost as good as a PE one. Many tanks I've seen in NF walk casting tl3 heal. Melee tanks can easily spec the psu.
awkward silence
22-03-04, 22:43
STEALTH IS WISDOM:lol:
Seriously playing a pe aint easy. I like the way it is:)
If you remove stealth most pe's will be tanks
My opinion but i believe its honest.
again: playing pe aint easy
Originally posted by Rade
Sleawer, stealth 2 is 75 int so you wont get that with your second setup.
Yes unfortunately stealth Int req was raised some time ago :(
Those are the setups I was using, so if I plan to keep using stealth II on the PE I will have to re-thing the RoLH setup.
Atm I'm full dedicated to my monk and spy, but that's a subject to change, one is going to PPU and I'm not satisfied with the snipe style of my spy. So either I lom him to pistols, or I use my PE again... prolly the second.
Originally posted by jernau
PEs should not have stealth. Nuff said.
Agreed
give them a different kind of tool, Private Eyes don't honestly need stealth.
Originally posted by Xylaz
actually malediction is a stealther killer. Every HC tank will tell u this, ask around. And, uhm, the point of aoe is not to shoot at point blank, but to cover stealther with an area dmg. It's easy, just need some luck...
true, but they will slow stealther down. Grenade launcher on the contrary works fine.
If you can't see where the PE went in the first place, you have no chance with AoE. There's no way a solo tank can take down a stealther using AoE weapons.
I take it you are a PE yourself? Because you don't seem to have a very good idea of what it's like from a Tank's point of view. You actually think GLs work? They take 5 seconds or so before exploding. Name me a PE stupid enough to see a grenade coming his way and run into it. All it takes is a sidestep, and it's not going to be accurate anyway since the Tank can't see you. And it's not exactly hard to move out of the area of effect in 5 seconds.
And anyway, as said already, stealthing on its own isn't a problem. Stealthing when you see 5 enemies in the distance and decide to run isn't a problem, stealthing when you want to spy on someone isn't a problem. What is a problem is when you start a fight with someone, realise he's better than you and that you're going to lose, so you stealth away.
Originally posted by Scikar
If you can't see where the PE went in the first place, you have no chance with AoE. There's no way a solo tank can take down a stealther using AoE weapons.
yes there is, assuming PE will stealth when he's almost dead. U just need one hit basically, and if u manage to slow him down a little before he stealths u a chance of hitting him. It's pretty possible.
I take it you are a PE yourself?
*sigh...points at a sig*
no, i'm a melee/hybrid tank.
And yes i've managed to kill a PE few times using aoe. Not sure how GL works, but i saw one tank using it effectively on stealthers, hence my assumption.
What is a problem is when you start a fight with someone, realise he's better than you and that you're going to lose, so you stealth away.
it doesn't bother me. I consider myself a victorious side in such situation. He escaped, i won. If he came back, we may start this over and over again. True - this can be annoying, but that's not the reason to rip off the PEs of their toys.
[edit - anyways, nothing good will come out of this. Let's finish this discussion pls. I'm tired of this constant nerf-crap. I just play a game and don't bother about anything else...]
az
Originally posted by Celt
A RoG or Judge isnt as good as a CS, but it's not THAT far.
If you balance your PE out with good runspeed, that is a must. You only get about 150% on the Judge, with pistol boost 1. The CS with a mid level tank at around 160% dmg will do over twice the damage of the Judge, if not more. You do about 20 dmg to an unbuffed tank that has a good setup witht the judge, even if you go fire or xray if they tank has a good con setup. The CS does about 75 damge to a buffed PE.
So lets talk about what you mean by not THAT far. When my PE has around 375-400 hp and your tank has 475-500. If a tank has any skill and can hit a PE the PE is dead meat without stealth.
I may do some checking on these numbers but my tank on my second account has a good con setup I blasted him with my two slot judge and had thoughts of just going back to a libby. Ill admit i need to lookover my setup on my pe but its not bad. I was in Neofrag with Little Terror taking on two tanks that both were near cap in camo armor and thanks to LT we managed to kill them here and there. Without stealth it would have just been a slaughter.
Ohh ya let me agree with Rade this whole post boils down to PE's dont just stand still and die like they used to so nerf them.
Originally posted by Biznatchy
If you balance your PE out with good runspeed, that is a must. You only get about 150% on the Judge, with pistol boost 1. The CS with a mid level tank at around 160% dmg will do over twice the damage of the Judge, if not more. You do about 20 dmg to an unbuffed tank that has a good setup witht the judge, even if you go fire or xray if they tank has a good con setup. The CS does about 75 damge to a buffed PE.
So lets talk about what you mean by not THAT far. When my PE has around 375-400 hp and your tank has 475-500. If a tank has any skill and can hit a PE the PE is dead meat without stealth.
I may do some checking on these numbers but my tank on my second account has a good con setup I blasted him with my two slot judge and had thoughts of just going back to a libby. Ill admit i need to lookover my setup on my pe but its not bad. I was in Neofrag with Little Terror taking on two tanks that both were near cap in camo armor and thanks to LT we managed to kill them here and there. Without stealth it would have just been a slaughter.
Ohh ya let me agree with Rade this whole post boils down to PE's dont just stand still and die like they used to so nerf them.
I suggest you completely redo your setup.
This whole thread boils down to that PEs should use SKILL I know most dont have it anymore but the rest really need to learn it again, requiring PEs to actually have to fight and risk dying, I know its shocking having to risk dying but if you dont like dying role a ppu, like everyone else and maybe they may learn some skill rather then just run away constantly.
Basically removing stealth will put you on a level playing field with the rest of the classes and balancing isnt a nerf.
Dribble Joy
23-03-04, 01:04
Biz....
Any PE using a judge should at LEAST cap the dmg, for the love of god, it really is not hard. Less than 400 hp on a judge setup is also very painful.
Tanks will cap a CS dmg with little effort and have 500hp+.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Tanks will cap a CS dmg with little effort and have 500hp+. That's because tanks don't have their main weapon skill in the same mainskill that 50% of their running speed comes from.
(Theoretically) If they removed the AGL part of runspeed, things would be a lot easier. Hell, just remove specialization all together, it fucked up the game and is making it hell to balance.
--Stryfe
ok my pe has 162 in pc right now around 88 in wep lore, dex is right at 100 need 2 levels to cap it. My judge has 120% on its damage stat it was 2 slot. I get just over 147% on damage for it.
Now what am I missing on how to cap the judge and even if I do I still wont do half what tanks do with just a speed gat.
Originally posted by StryfeX
They have the second best defense in the game,
Second best? You mean after PPU's and Tanks with their 100 CON ?:confused:
Originally posted by Skinfitz
Second best? You mean after PPU's and Tanks with their 100 CON ?:confused:
A PE with a defensive spec has better defence than a Tank as
long as the Tank doesnt get a shelter from a PPU or a PE. If
Tanks get a shelter on them they are vastly superior however.
Originally posted by Rade
A PE with a defensive spec has better defence than a Tank as
long as the Tank doesnt get a shelter from a PPU or a PE.
Are we talking (self) buffed or unbuffed?
Shadow Dancer
23-03-04, 10:06
Originally posted by Skinfitz
Are we talking (self) buffed or unbuffed?
Self buffed.
Dribble Joy
23-03-04, 11:16
Originally posted by Biznatchy
ok my pe has 162 in pc right now around 88 in wep lore, dex is right at 100 need 2 levels to cap it. My judge has 120% on its damage stat it was 2 slot. I get just over 147% on damage for it.
Now what am I missing on how to cap the judge and even if I do I still wont do half what tanks do with just a speed gat.
PC, you will need at least 170. If you still don't quite cap the dmg with that, get some more WEP. I poke 115 and have enougfh psu to run/walk cast tl3 heal and still have 100 WEP.
Not only to cap the dmg but also get an acceptable rof.
I don't know what imps you are using, but something simple like SF, SA, moveon/ppr and distance 3 should give you enough PC and TC so that your agl isn't so low that you have to rely on drugs. (if you don't have an SA, things are harder, but an exp.ballistic 3 is good)
Originally posted by Rai Wong
QD do not boost about their own abilities
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Just thought that deseved some quotage.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Pe's should have stealth but only for the sneaking up ability not running away.
If I were to use this device in real life I would use it just for that. Whats wrong with it anyway. I play tank and monks, and I can kill PEs.
Remove foreign cast S/D, and you can take away stealth. Deal?
Originally posted by der Ed
Remove foreign cast S/D, and you can take away stealth. Deal?
accepted:D
Seymour-Saturn-
24-03-04, 00:27
im a PE on saturn and i dont realy see y other PE use it cose i dont ues it at all and win just as much fights as the stealthers do
even tho i have no t-c id rather have a rare gat pistol than a stealth thingy (there isnt a rare gat pistol even tho its my dream ^_^)
I have no problem with PEs stealthing. Hell, unless they really gimp themselves they can only do it for about 10 seconds anyway which really makes no difference, I'll still get them one way or another.
Originally posted by der Ed
Remove foreign cast S/D, and you can take away stealth. Deal?
Yes but I would still like a self-cast only test on the test server.
Originally posted by der Ed
Remove foreign cast S/D, and you can take away stealth. Deal?
How are the two related?
:confused:
Originally posted by jernau
How are the two related?
:confused:
I think he means if you take something away from the pe, you have to give something back, by making them one of the only combat classes bar the hybrid and druggie spy to use shelter you are giving them an advantage. This would be a great idea boosing the pe and making them more useful on op wars, yet removing stealth and so the poorer pe's can no longer get away when beat.
Originally posted by Cyphor
I think he means if you take something away from the pe, you have to give something back, by making them one of the only combat classes bar the hybrid and druggie spy to use shelter you are giving them an advantage. This would be a great idea boosing the pe and making them more useful on op wars, yet removing stealth and so the poorer pe's can no longer get away when beat.
So you fix something that unnecesarily overpowers one class to bring them into line and then apply a massive nerf to all others. Some people have a funny idea of balance.o_O
Originally posted by jernau
So you fix something that unnecesarily overpowers one class to bring them into line and then apply a massive nerf to all others. Some people have a funny idea of balance.o_O
emm how does this apply a massive nerf to others? This just brings duel type situations to mass battles. Many have said this would be one of the things to balance the importance of ppu's in combat, id agree.
I think the point many pe's have is they dont want to loose one feature in the game without some gain elsewhere. Possibly it doesnt need to be in this form, mabey some other type of unique tool, however this idea kills two birds with one stone, fixing ppus and pe's at once.
It's a huge nerf to others because it removes a critical element of their defence in group combat while having no effect on the PEs.
I know that the idea has been thrown around before but I don't agree with it. I notice that many of it's strongest proponents are PEs and don't think that this is a coincidence.
People are quick to accuse KK of overkill wrt balance and then they get behind silly ideas like this that would render a whole class useless.:rolleyes:
I don't see why PEs need something else in place of stealth tbh. They never should have had it in the first place, removing it is just correcting a decision we can now see was wrong.
What class would it render useless? PPUs are what throw the game out of balance, take for example the apu, they are ment to have extreme damage and weak defence, throw in a ppu however and they no longer have weak defence, this can be repeated for all classes.
Edit: and if you mean it makes ppu's useless then i dis-agree, they are still important for their healing abilities, their dmg boost and primary buff abilities, the ability to bring back the dead remove poison etc... Shields are simply a timesync, they reduce dmg yes but they are not the ppus main job in battle, their main job is healing imo, this will not be removed.
Im not arguing because my main char is a pe, I play all class's at capped or close to capped lvl, i do agree pe's should never have been given stealth, however i also agree with some of the other posters that other balances are needed in this game, one of which is to reduce the effects and importance of ppu's on pvp. I dont think this balance is needed at the same time as removing stealth from the pe, but it is needed, this would just be a good excuse to put it in at the same time.
All of that is about PPUs though and not PEs. There are more than enough PPU threads so I won't take this one off-topic.
Some changes need to be made in parallel, these don't therefore doing so would only cloud judgement of the success/failure of either change.
tomparadox
24-03-04, 05:12
I will pose this question again: Why are PEs allowed to have stealth?
They have the second best defense in the game, AND they can get stealth. That is simply not balanced. That's like giving tanks the ability to cast a Holy Heal on themselves once every 15-20 seconds or so. Stealth should be made Spy-only and PEs should get some other little toy in its place.
I'm tired of catching a PE unawares and unbuffed only to almost kill them then have them stealth away like a little pansy, rebuff, heal up and come back to usually kill me. If I get the element of surprise, THEY SHOULD DIE. And they usually do if they don't stealth.
[OT] What's up with the lack of pokers on Saturn? You can stand around for 30 minutes and shout at the top of your lungs and not get any sort of responce.
--Stryfe
i agree, IMO they shouldent get it. they they can heal super fast with TL 3 heal its like a fucking blessed or something. then add that with second best defense and the ability to cloak? wtf? i agree it is jest ******. and they do fight with it, all the time i see it.
What's up with the lack of pokers on Saturn? You can stand around for 30 minutes and shout at the top of your lungs and not get any sort of responce.
ya, same on uranus, stand in p2 for a long time sometimes too.
Dribble Joy
24-03-04, 05:32
Though I have not been on much of late, I am allways availiable for poking, Give me a shout if you see me online and I will be happy to poke you if I am not busy :).
gonna poke my head in here and remind everyone that if you stealth on your pe, you're a noob
give it to spies only and make a wait between stealths so it can only be USED for spying not for escaping death
and unnerf the obliterator any spy that can use it has no resists anyway
thx
PEs are unbalanced in OP wars because of PPU foreign casts which dont boost the resists of PEs to the same extent they boost other classes so if foreign casts were removed it would boost PEs to viability in group combat by making their resists as good as anybody elses in OP wars rather then being only better then spies in that situation.
But making S/D self-cast could either finally make all classes other then maybe combat spies balanced or it could just destroy PvP completely hence why a test would be good to see which is true.
Oh and just for your information atm my main character is a PPU so dont say only PEs are pushing for this.Oh and nerf para I need the 2 slots taken up by holy para and anti-paralysis for other spells.
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