View Full Version : Turn PPUs into PPU-based hybrids?
This is an idea that a few people have had, but it's not really been dicussed at length, so here it is.
Weaken the high level PPU spells, Holy Shelter, Deflector, and Heal. In return, give the PPU some offensive ability. Maybe aim them to use regular halos in combination with their holy defence. Or perhaps make parashocks deal damage instead of freezing. The point is, give them a weak attack capability, while reducing their defence somewhat. They would still have the strongest defence however.
So we go from near invulnerable defence/no offense to very good defence / weak offense. The key point is that they would still have the best defence. They would also still retain use in OP fights. With the high level PPU spells weakened a little, the PPUs would still be able to deal damage in OP fights, and in addition they could be given the standard antibuff (not holy).
For a method of implementation, simply copy the low level APU spells, and add alternative ones with a PPU req. So for example, APU Energy Halo, currently TL37, would be copied to PPU Energy Halo, made TL84, and require PPU to use. The APU spell would still exist.
This would mean:
Solo levelling possible.
Parashock can be safely removed.
Solo PPUs can defend themselves and fight off an enemy.
2v2 where one side has a PPU and the other does not becomes more balanced.
PPUs gain more tricks with things like antibuff (though restricted by low RoF).
Thoughts?
enigma_b17
21-03-04, 15:21
while that would partially solve the problem of solo ppus, an nrg halo does pretty much nothing to a tank or apu with high energy, its not a bad idea, plus with antibuff which imo should ave a much longer cast time ppus are not invincible :P
Shadow Dancer
21-03-04, 19:57
Solo ppus would be overpowered Scikar.
As long as they can outheal damage 1v1, they shouldn't get halo offense.
I don't like this idea. :(
Hahahahahahahahaha
You've seen the light, hybrids are the only possible way for monks to ever be balanced.
Can't wait til cy and hinch see this thread.
Though I still think it would just be best to bring the old hybrids back and tweak from there.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Solo ppus would be overpowered Scikar.
As long as they can outheal damage 1v1, they shouldn't get halo offense.
I don't like this idea. :(
That's the point of weakening their defence...
We can't just weaken them and then leave it, instead we have to give them the means to defend themselves. Weaken them enough that they can't quite outheal damage in a 1v1, and then they can use skill with the halo as defence.
Shadow Dancer
21-03-04, 20:24
Originally posted by Scikar
That's the point of weakening their defence...
We can't just weaken them and then leave it, instead we have to give them the means to defend themselves. Weaken them enough that they can't quite outheal damage in a 1v1, and then they can use skill with the halo as defence.
Then they would be a crap class. If they can't outheal damage in a 1v1, and only deal halo damage. Ewwwww.
You said slightly weaken holy buffs. Sorry, but to weaken it enough to the point that they can't out heal damage in a 1v1, that's more than "slightly".
Psyco Groupie
21-03-04, 20:25
EVERYTHING ABOUT PPUS IS FINE EXCEPT SOUL CLUSTERS.
Originally posted by Scikar
That's the point of weakening their defence...
We can't just weaken them and then leave it, instead we have to give them the means to defend themselves. Weaken them enough that they can't quite outheal damage in a 1v1, and then they can use skill with the halo as defence.
No offense but I don't think you've thought this through properly. I like the general idea (ie fixing PPUs) but try to imagine how nerfed a PPU would have to be to not outheal 1v1 damage. Right now my PPU can easily take on 4-5 tanks (assuming no ppu of course) and I'd assume 3-4 APUs (not tested since new patch). For one APU or Tank to be able to do more damage than HH can heal you're not talking a reduction in PPUs but a complete and utter nerfing to the point of uselessness.
I agree with the need, just not the solution :)
heres another idea:
stop fucking about with the monk class
kthxbye.
Originally posted by Omnituens
heres another idea:
stop fucking about with the monk class
kthxbye.
It's not so much fucking about with so much as fixing the utterly b0rked.
Originally posted by MrChumble
No offense but I don't think you've thought this through properly. I like the general idea (ie fixing PPUs) but try to imagine how nerfed a PPU would have to be to not outheal 1v1 damage. Right now my PPU can easily take on 4-5 tanks (assuming no ppu of course) and I'd assume 3-4 APUs (not tested since new patch). For one APU or Tank to be able to do more damage than HH can heal you're not talking a reduction in PPUs but a complete and utter nerfing to the point of uselessness.
I agree with the need, just not the solution :)
I'm saying you won't outheal it if you're getting pounded. In an actual fight you're going to be moving around and attacking.
You're right, I haven't thought this through all the way. There's no way I can since I'm not a PPU. That's the point of the thread, I never expect an idea I have to be the same by the time it reaches the second page.
So we've established that the original idea wouldn't work very well. That's not unexpected. The question is, what will? Because unfortunately Psyco Groupie is not backed up by much of the player base.
Psyco Groupie
21-03-04, 20:48
Originally posted by Omnituens
heres another idea:
stop fucking about with the monk class
kthxbye.
amen.
PPU => best defence + no damage = perfect as it is :angel:
so basicly you'll leave them with the best defence but now give them the chance to kill O_o
its the right way =)
atm playing a hybrid is like...
spies stealth
pes outheal you
tanks laugh at you
apus ******** you
the main problem is that it takes 10 mins to kill an unbuffed enemy...when they`re buffed you can basicly forget it :(
i dont see how an even lower version of the e halo would make playing such a class fun :(
but the idea is kewl and we need to bring balanced hybrids back...the monk class atm is totally fucked up
id say "reroll" the monk changes to the point where new spells got introduced and then... leave a few out....or change a few...make spellcaps at a certain lower lvl so pure monks still have a bonus but cant be 10 x as good as a hybrid and so on
i think that would be the better way :)
but still good thinking and we need to do something...
maybe we can talk ingame sometime scikar and work something out
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
atm playing a hybrid is like...
spies stealth
pes outheal you
tanks laugh at you
apus ******** you
Gotta disagree.
When people see my hybrid, its kinda more like this:
1. spies stealth and I chase them around with a barrel
2. pe's dont outheal much while frozen and dmg boost, makes it easy to pump twin halos into them every second
3. tanks get about 5 seconds of laughing in before they realise im outhealing every single weapon they have to offer, and im taking 50's off thier head every 1-2 secs
4. apus are dead before they can debuff
Shadow Dancer
22-03-04, 11:43
If halo damage was like raygun, then I would be a hybrid. Doing 30-50 damage a pop is fine.
But when it's starts doing 10-20 damage when their near death..........:rolleyes:
I voted no. Y delete a class to make a class that already exists?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
If halo damage was like raygun, then I would be a hybrid. Doing 30-50 damage a pop is fine.
But when it's starts doing 10-20 damage when their near death..........:rolleyes:
Heals are effectively the opposite though. I remember doing some tests with Rizzy's hybrid before the major nerf, using a capped SpeedGun. Phosphor and Uranium ammo, he couldn't outheal head damage but he could outheal once it got down to chest. Explosive ammo he couldn't outheal at chest damage but he could at leg damage.
With this in mind, and today's hybrids having lower defence than that, I don't they could outheal better than that, but I would like to see if they can outheal at leg damage.
oh look its an idea i suggested nearly a year ago :rolleyes:
nevermind
and yes i think the idea is sound but you need full runcasting on all spells ppu and apu and then it would work fine.
Originally posted by Candaman
I voted no. Y delete a class to make a class that already exists?
hybrids exist ? :eek:
no seriously... hybrids are uber gimps atm
only usefull for pking noobs or pvm...and pures are overpowerd...
thats why ;)
u can still make a holy buffed monk with a aggresive spell mite be shit but ...
Originally posted by Candaman
u can still make a holy buffed monk with a aggresive spell mite be shit but ...
erm.. whut are you talking about ? :confused:
apus ?
you mean a hybrid with holy shelter and a bit apu ?!
yeah like a holy energy bolt or something :)
works but i'd rather just buff up and use a pistol tbh :)
Originally posted by Candaman
u can still make a holy buffed monk with a aggresive spell mite be shit but ...
And the point is to make that the norm rather than the pure PPU. ;)
(Maybe without the 'shite' part :p)
maby but not by giveing them APU spells but by making the damg on the Freeze spells do a little more damg to mobs cos a PPU is a PPU at the end of the day, a support class not a fighting class.
Original monk
22-03-04, 12:46
No thanx ...
Gimp (lower holy spells) all ppu's and make em hybrids ??
then ppu's yust become like the hybrids we have now ...
i allready have a hybrid, i dont want my ppu to become a gimped ppu with very small hybrid quality ...
i like it as it is now : i have a apu to deal damage, a hybrid for fun and pvm and a ppu for healing ... i dont want my ppu turned into a hybrid with lowlevel attack ...
i allready have a hybrid with blessed shelter and halo's ... and you wonna turn my ppu into the same ?
nothanx: stay of hybrids, stay of ppu's, stay of apu's and dont start merging and mixing up the classes :)
i think monks have been fucked around with many times enough by now :)
making a ppu a hybridlikemonk is yust removing the ppu ...
cause more defense/low offense hybrids allready exist ...
(5 months ago when ya would only say the word "hybrid" people would be calling NERF NERF allready ... and now ya wonna make ppu's into em ? )
As much as I hate to say it, today's PPUs are 10x worse than yesterday's hybrids.
And sorry original but balance isn't going to be sacrificed just because it's an inconvenience to you. As I keep say, keep up that attitude and every class will have antibuff weapons when KK eventually finishes.
arrrrrgghhh YES monks got totally fucked up in the past... like 241414123 nerf patches and changes...
but something being fucked up is no reason to stop fixing it
monks need to get changed
atm the pure monk problem is far worse than the hybrid problem back then
Originally posted by Possessed
Hahahahahahahahaha
You've seen the light, hybrids are the only possible way for monks to ever be balanced.
Can't wait til cy and hinch see this thread.
Though I still think it would just be best to bring the old hybrids back and tweak from there. didnt read anything after this post
but i agree with that possessed said
Original monk
22-03-04, 13:20
Originally posted by Scikar
And sorry original but balance isn't going to be sacrificed just because it's an inconvenience to you. As I keep say, keep up that attitude and every class will have antibuff weapons when KK eventually finishes.
you guys still whining on ppu's ?? leave monks the fuck alone
youre idea basically is: remove the current ppu's and make em as the lowoffense/blesseddefense hybrids we all know ... im sorry scikar but thats the most sucky ppusolution i heard till now ...
and yeah ffcourse this would be an inconvenience to me ... i allready have such a hybrid ... so i dont want my ppu turned into a copy of that hybrid ...
but this was merely an example of how it is in my situation ... and not a reason why they should/shouldnt be balanced ... so i dunno where you get the : balance isnt gonne be sacrificed for youre convenience ...
so you get my point witouth example ?? i hope ..
are you being shortsighted on purpose ?
you yust want a ppunerf again (ppuremove i mean)... wich wouldnt balance anything
Monks aren't balanced Orgininal. If they are, why is KK adding shield penetrating bullets to the SH?
People like you disagree with every solution that anyone comes up with. Then KK adds these antibuff bullets and you all complain.
I have explained in the first post why I think it would work. You haven't said why it won't. And if you ever do, you certainly won't say what would, which just encourages KK to add more antibuff bullets. Have it your way.
Original monk
22-03-04, 13:40
Originally posted by Scikar
Monks aren't balanced Orgininal. If they are, why is KK adding shield penetrating bullets to the SH?
People like you disagree with every solution that anyone comes up with. Then KK adds these antibuff bullets and you all complain.
I have explained in the first post why I think it would work. You haven't said why it won't. And if you ever do, you certainly won't say what would, which just encourages KK to add more antibuff bullets. Have it your way.
they arent balanced for over a year now ... and there been 100 giant monkchanges allready :/ so i doubt they will ever be balanced lol ..
this doesnt mean that i dislike every idea suggested to balance them :) but this idea in particular i dont like yeah... removing a class to get another allready existing class in return :/ nothanx
KK indeed better stayed with hybrids and tweaked em decently ... but they didnt and now we have this ...
im afraid everytime they change sumthing about monks ...
and i will think about youre idea a bit more and tell ya why i think it maybe wont work ... but i have dinner with a wonderfull, nicelooking, sweet, intelligent lady in half an hour :P so i will tell ya laterz :P
first things first
have fun
edit: and i also dont like the idea that ya wonna remove parashock ...
I have said all along as long as the PPU is the only class that is pure support, more than likely most players will NEVER be happy with the class. Any pure support class will ALWAYS be super important in combat.
So this idea removes them from a pure support role to one where they are a combatant with weak offense and high defense- thus allowing PPUs to be balanced in the same manner as other classes.
So I like it.
hm...
I dunno, I've been working on another char (APU) and I've been noticing something.
I got about 72 APU currently with like 25 PPW and about 20 PSU, and I checked out the Chran Heal at Yakarma, expecting negative damage and shit.
Turns out I had about 72% damage on it.......not exactly good, but definately better than negatives.
Confused, I checked out all the recent patchnotes, even the ones from October when I first got here and before that...the patchnotes helped explain a few things.
In case it isn't already aware to people, although the Hybrid Monks recently got the shaft with the high-end spells gaining huge APU/PPU reqs, it is apparently now much easier to get spells working.
The hybird nerf was lowered from 30% decreases to 5% decreases..If I understand this change correctly, this should mean that:
PPU Damage: 0.65(65%) PPU + 0.35(35%) PPW + -0.3(-30%) APU
APU Damage: 0.65(65%) APU + 0.35(35%) PPW + -0.3(-30%) PPU
is now:
PPU Damage: 0.65(65%) PPU + 0.35(35%) PPW + -0.05(-5%) APU
APU Damage: 0.65(65%) APU + 0.35(35%) PPW + -0.05(-5%) PPU
So apparently, Hybrids can cap their spells much easier but cannot access the high-end spells anymore. However...
This is now my assumption, since I won't be assed to start a new hybrid from scratch to complete this hypothesis, but supposedly, if you don't wear anything that makes PPU or APU get negative stats, I think it's actually possible now for Pure APUs/PPUs to get some stats up and become able to use low-end PPU & APU spells respectively without a problem and with minimal points.
You can counter this post as you wish, I'm aware I may not have all the data to be an authority, but at least I noticed some weird shit. :cool:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.