View Full Version : Politics gone wrong: The Faction vs The Clan
The current faction system is being revised. Right now the clan's interests usually come first and then the faction's interests. After the release of NC:BDOY, the main focus will shift towards the conflict between the two empires Dome of York and Neocron. The revised faction sympathy system will reflect that.
As you can see in the above quote from the DoY plan file, there is going to be a change to the current sympathy system to better align the factions to the two sides in the coming war. Obviously we dont know how this change is going to happen, and more importantly, how it is going to be enforced, but I'm curious to see how people feel about it. Many people complain (especially on Pluto) how clan alliances across different factions have messed with the system so much that fights are no longer fun, especially given the FS and SL penalties that come from attacking members of allied factions.
I am particularly interested to see what clan leaders have to say about this - could you work with the system and put aside your feelings for "enemy" clans in "allied" factions, or would you rather pick and choose your allies and disregard the allied/neutral/enemy faction sympathy system?
although i support the faction, the clan is more important.
they can try and make it for the faction etc but allies are still going to end up kosing each other etc, prefer the factions as they are atm tbh
i think the faction comes first on saturn right now its all clan clan clan, when ever i see a black dragon these days he always takes a shot at me, even fellow crahn members too :confused: really messed up on saturn the rp is at an all time low.
If noone is going to abide by the faction sympathies, they might as well turn it into two factions, CA and DOY.
For me personaly, for my thinking there are only three factions i would play in, being Tangent, Next and biotech.
I wouldn' mind having a tsunami character though :-)
Leveling is fun, but right now i'm leaning more to go rp a bit more than just level for the sake of levels.
Well, the thing is Cartel and TAngent can't realy even trust allied factions anymore, i used to be able to run into mb and only watch out for TG pkers.
Right now you gotta watch out who's in which clan to know if they're gonna try to kill you.
It's messed up beyond recognition atm.
Originally posted by Dru Blood
i think the faction comes first on saturn right now its all clan clan clan, when ever i see a black dragon these days he always takes a shot at me, even fellow crahn members too :confused: really messed up on saturn the rp is at an all time low. crahn deserve to be shot by BD cos they allied against there own F6 allies, nuff said, the clan has to look after themselves.
and i hate the idea of 2 sides us v them kinda thing, thats just boring, i might as well play unreal for the two sided fighting, i like the factions in neocron, you have to choice wisely who you help or dont help knowing you your actions may effect an allie or whatever
•Super|\|ova•
19-03-04, 13:17
TG on saturn is a real damn mess. Maybe the worst faction I've ever seen. I really can't blame Cartel hating them so much.
yes i agree ezza,
ive always followed the basic rules of red = dead .. this is the way it was meant to be intended,
hopefully when doy arrives, like u said there will be 2 factions city and anti city, this will be fantastic ditch all the other factions this is the only way it will work. maybe a trader faction aswell though who are neautral to both for the tradeskillers.
i just want to be able to know who my enemies and allies are, you cant tell on saturn anymore :p
So do you think that personal feelings about other runners and other clans are too deep rooted to change? Taking the situation with Crahn on Saturn as an example, it would appear as though they act contrary to the current F6 faction system.
What do you think it would take to sort this out, other than a miracle?
Personally I think the FC's should have the ability to penalise runners and clans within their faction for breaking faction alliances.. this isn't a perfect solution as you have to be sure that the FC's are impartial within the faction. And of course, players don't like being told what to do :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Siygess
So do you think that personal feelings about other runners and other clans are too deep rooted to change? Taking the situation with Crahn on Saturn as an example, it would appear as though they act contrary to the current F6 faction system.
What do you think it would take to sort this out, other than a miracle?
Personally I think the FC's should have the ability to penalise runners and clans within their faction for breaking faction alliances.. this isn't a perfect solution as you have to be sure that the FC's are impartial within the faction. And of course, players don't like being told what to do :rolleyes: all it would take is some people to open there F6 look at whos allied and whos not and taking it from there:p
yep, although the current faction system is crap i always follow it. just wish everybody else would until it gets changed.
Originally posted by Dru Blood
yep, although the current faction system is crap i always follow it. just wish everybody else would until it gets changed. my crahn clan do, and due to being ex cartel myself we dont get attacked by them;)
and unlike some crahn i even go as far as to kill my enemies.
Jesterthegreat
19-03-04, 13:36
Originally posted by Siygess
Personally I think the FC's should have the ability to penalise runners and clans within their faction for breaking faction alliances.. this isn't a perfect solution as you have to be sure that the FC's are impartial within the faction. And of course, players don't like being told what to do :rolleyes:
god no... i dont play this game to be told who i can and cannot shoot...
besides, just cos politically we cant do anything, doesnt mean physically we cant do anything :)
i was called a carebear on these very forums (i think it was yesterday)... which is amusing seeing as i am in NCAT (National Carebear Assassination Team) O_o considering we seem to be at war with everyone but 2 or 3 clans... i dont see how im a carebear.
besides... if clan A attacks its ally clan B, then clan B retaliates... who is punished? both of them? the agresser? how do you know who really started it?
Originally posted by Siygess
So do you think that personal feelings about other runners and other clans are too deep rooted to change?
just to pick up on this point - my personal feeling is always to attack my enemies, and my enemies are faction based. however, my enemies are my favourite people, since this is a PvP (for me) game, and without enemies i cannot PvP.
hence, a change in the rules will simply bring me a new set of enemies, and since i have only respect and affection for my current enemies, i don't see how i can be angry at having them either continue as enemies, or become allies (since i like em already). makes sense?
sanityislost
19-03-04, 13:46
the cult comes first to me and then the faction
in rp: i hate all the red ppl
in ooc: everyone is chilled and yes even crahn :p
@s0apy: That’s a good outlook, but there are still many runners who’s enemies aren’t faction based :)
@SanityIsLost: Well in your case, I can understand that the clan comes first - You do have that crazy skull to babysit ;)
@Jester: *lol* Calling an NCAT member a carebear? I'd dont like those terms, but it's still pretty ironic :D Do you guys still play on Pluto or was that a different NCAT?
angelsenior
19-03-04, 14:58
This game is supposed to be a 'ROLE'-playing game, but everyone ends up being friends with some and enemies to others but more for personal feelings then in regards to faction membership, therefore this way of playing will fuck up any faction/clan system.
Too many people dont follow any role, or choose their faction badly.
I think alliances between factions shouldnt be permanent as they are now, so that enemy factions dont stay enemy and vice versa, depending on how the game evolves new alliances, new enemies are made.
Jesterthegreat
19-03-04, 15:07
Originally posted by Siygess
@s0apy: That’s a good outlook, but there are still many runners who’s enemies aren’t faction based :)
@SanityIsLost: Well in your case, I can understand that the clan comes first - You do have that crazy skull to babysit ;)
@Jester: *lol* Calling an NCAT member a carebear? I'd dont like those terms, but it's still pretty ironic :D Do you guys still play on Pluto or was that a different NCAT?
Skuld leads us... AFAIK its the same clan, but moved. i play Uranus... but it was ssc (dont hold me to it... i may be waaaay of track here) that called me carebear. i have no problem with ssc. my main was in that clan for prolly like a year. however now, due to my act being hacked for the 3rd time :rolleyes: the clan was targeted. 10 mil was taken from the clan bank, and i was quit from the clan. they tried to cover it up, but Sirrah knew money was missing. i have not made an attempt to rejoin since, as tbh i dont see why they should suffer cos someone(s) is hacking me.
anyways... yeah i play Uranus
:edit: angelsenior - you see playing your char as you see fit, liking who you like, hating who you hate as not RPing?
you think blindly following the guidelines put down by kk is better? O_o
-=BlackBeard=-
19-03-04, 15:27
i think that the faction is averagly important but the clan is more
Clan is more important than faction.
Think about it, if in DoY everything is black and white - Neocron vs Dome, its just going to remove another aspect of the game for you all. There won't be any more politics, a massive chunk of the current 'end-game' would be removed.
Its a bit like placing too many guards to prevent pking. What use is an area if nothing happens anymore?
The spice of Neocron today is that everyone has different relationships to other factions, it adds a much needed dimension to conflict. Remove this and combat becomes like Dark Age of Camelot, or Star Wars Galaxies. It would be rubbish.
People say roleplay is dead, but I think roleplay is alive and well, we just aren't restricting ourselves to what F6 is telling us, we are responding to the real situations on our server. They only need to add a working clan war system and it would be complete.
But DoY is still a fantasy. Its future is not certain yet.
kk are taking soooo long to do anything so that by the time doy eventually comes out...there would be a server population of only GM's. :(
Originally posted by Delloda
kk are taking soooo long to do anything so that by the time doy eventually comes out...there would be a server population of only GM's. :( lol that must mean ill be a GM at some point then:D
Clan loyalty is everything, betray the clan and feel its wrath, they're the people who watch you back when the faction sends you on a suicide mission, wasting you life on a hundred year old feud.
When the clan decides the faction cant be trusted and moves you move with the clan or you stay and show your lack of loyalty and true colours.
Personally I think the FC's should have the ability to penalise runners and clans within their faction for breaking faction alliances.. this isn't a perfect solution as you have to be sure that the FC's are impartial within the faction. And of course, players don't like being told what to do
yep it might cause a few problems, there might be a few abuse in power from FC if they can't be impartial but once they offer incentives to be in that faction (faction rewards) and if a clan does bad they won't get the special prize something like that lol.
I haven't been in a clan for ages, I much prefer just working for the faction by RPing the role. helpping allies and not enemies etc
I clicked on Clan by mistake. I meant to click on Faction.
THE FACTION > THE CLAN.
Jesterthegreat
19-03-04, 16:43
clan > faction anyday
look at clans that have changed factions. then loook at the people who stayed behind... howmany stayed due to lazyness / bad symps, and how many stayed due to dedication to their faction?
The game shouldnt be black and white in my opinion.
why even bother have other factions if its pretty much gonna be neocron vs dome of york.
there should be the city administration (neocron)
Dome of york (the other city, what faction they plan to call this, who knows)
the mercs (military base)
fallen angels (tech heaven)
twilight guardian (caynon)
that way theres at least 5 more distinct factions rather thant 13 factions but like... 7 are pro city and all allied together while the rest are allied and are anti neocron city.
angelsenior
19-03-04, 17:21
@jesterthegreat
Im not saying that THAT isnt rping, Im saying that too much personal factors are taken into account instead of the faction ideals (too much individual role and less faction role).
Another problem is people having multiple chars in multiple clans/factions, in the end the player follows a certain pattern which no longer keeps track of whatever char is in whatever clan (Ie your leveling a CM char, get pked by TG, you relog to your FA capped char and hunt down the pker even though FA is neutral to TG => the CM char should ask/check for help within its faction instead of using an out of place char to take revenge).
=>you start a char, select its faction/role.
=> you attack neutrals or allies => you no longer follow your 'role'
I dont say you cant attack em, just that it happens too much in regards to attacks vs faction enemies, thus your 'role' becomes unclear/unwanted or whatever (it is NOT roleplaying if you dont follow the role YOU choose in the first place, if your feelings change during the game then change faction/clan accordingly).
I dont blindly follow any guidelines or whatever, Im saying that if you play as an enemy to a certain clan/faction, then you should move to a faction which is indeed enemy of them, and not stay in a neutral or allied faction (although I know the game doesnt make this easy).
My idea of faction enemies is just for that, to be able to change faction enemies if needed (or maybe even allow a clan to change faction at once as a group if it doesnt fit your clan's ideals anymore).
The other option (which I think most people will like),
is for the players to build their own clan (there are no more factions), choose enemies/ideals/role themselves and change whenever needed.
The clan remains the same, ideals/allies/enemies/members change.
Praetorian
19-03-04, 17:26
Even being part of a faction does not mean the individual clan does not make its own internal policies... Sometimes they mean that the clan will not attack enemy faction clans. Delloda knows what I'm talking about... :)
But I will say that to me a clan is more important than its faction, and I've seen a fair share of the big clans move faction anyway, so honestly most people dont care for the politics. The clan is a tighter unit, whereas the faction is what gathers people around a cause.
Originally posted by Zanathos
The game shouldnt be black and white in my opinion.
why even bother have other factions if its pretty much gonna be neocron vs dome of york.
there should be the city administration (neocron)
Dome of york (the other city, what faction they plan to call this, who knows)
the mercs (military base)
fallen angels (tech heaven)
twilight guardian (caynon)
that way theres at least 5 more distinct factions rather thant 13 factions but like... 7 are pro city and all allied together while the rest are allied and are anti neocron city.
Axis -V- Allies created a far more complicated war I think thats what KK tried to achieve and I enjoy it like that the only problem is theres nothign ingame that rates a faction DOY enemies as a greater threat than its NC enemies or vice versa.
Tangent being enemies to Biotech makes for an interesting dynamic inside the city but it should be obvious to both thru the RPOS and the storyline that they'd stop their own fighting to face the greater menace of the Dome or Twilight Guardians.
To quote some cheese:
"Strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
Strength of the Wolf is the Pack"
Clan > Faction
These are the guys/gals that watch your back when the SHTF, you can trust to give back that ressed CS part, and more importantly the people you can fuck around with and know everything's cool :D
Originally posted by Kugero
To quote some cheese:
"Strength of the Pack is the Wolf,
Strength of the Wolf is the Pack"
Clan > Faction
These are the guys/gals that watch your back when the SHTF, you can trust to give back that ressed CS part, and more importantly the people you can fuck around with and know everything's cool :D
thats one thing, how many people outside your clan would you trust etc, i know i wouldnt trust that many people outside my own clan or group of people i have clanned with how far can you trust the faction, imo not far, but the clan you can.
all about the clan imo, yes the faction has to be right, i wont just go any faction cos my friends are there, i mean i went against them all when i went BD, butif the factions right then good, but its still the clan that makes the faction what it is
But what about when a clan in one faction attacks a clan in an allied faction - or worse yet, when a clan in one faction attacks another clan in the same faction? Surely when this happens the clans involved have accepted that factions dont mean anything? :(
Originally posted by Siygess
But what about when a clan in one faction attacks a clan in an allied faction - or worse yet, when a clan in one faction attacks another clan in the same faction? Surely when this happens the clans involved have accepted that factions dont mean anything? :( of course, in those cases its all about the clan, though normally the in house fighting is over something dumb, someone sexed someone else or something:p
FirestarXL
19-03-04, 18:02
When choosing a clan, you're also choosing the company you keep and have some control over that (the players in general do). Whereas if you get a gimp in your faction, there's no-one, not even FC's, who can do anything about that - even if they consistantly act against the faction. Situations like that do nothing to help foster fighting for the faction rather than the clan.
Then there was an older situation where a TG clan made a CA division, mainly just so they could use the epic armour - and there was nothing anyone could do to stop that. Things like that just depreciate any imprtance the faction system could have had.
I put the clan ahead of the faction, however if i feel the clan isnt acting in the best interests of the faction i will try to get them to change or i will leave.
Imo the problem atm is on each server there is always going to be a clan that will get greedy with ops etc, this puts the clans F6 allies in a bad position if they want ops, none the less i prefer to stick to what f6 says, i might not be the biggest roleplayer but when i move away from the story completely whats the difference between playing nc and playing cs? It would all just be mindless killing.
One way to sort it might be for a faction councillor to have more power over the clans in thier faction, even to the extent they can kick bad roleplayers if they feel the need to. However for this to happen there would need to be a faction which is enemy to all (perhalps where people get kicked to) this faction has no faction councillor and no story no benefits, no hq no missions etc, if people dont want to follow a story they shouldnt be forced to but they shouldnt get the benefits either. Perhalps even make it cost alot to leave this faction to try and teach people a lesson :p
Yes i see the point that kk shouldnt force people to play a certain way but then why play a faction where you want to fight the allies to that faction? Or are friends to the enemies? By having a faction enemy to all these probs would be sorted imo as the players can choose who to fight for themselves.
of course once the war thingy is put in proberbly, you will see allies kosing each other left right and centre:D
But what about when a clan in one faction attacks a clan in an allied faction - or worse yet, when a clan in one faction attacks another clan in the same faction? Surely when this happens the clans involved have accepted that factions dont mean anything?
until they figure out how to punish faction deviants, there's no difference between a faction clan run amok internally vs. faction members pulling the same hi-jinks ...
Also, beyond Epic items imo there really isn't any advantage to being in one Faction or another atm (unless you need it to join a certain clan) because:
1) Faction allies kill faction allies and neutrals with no real consequences
2) Genrep's are for the most part locked to Non-clan members 99% of the time
3) You can take faction epic items with you (except CA)
4) The only penalty to faction hoping is 300k and some time ganking faction allies or neutrals (well missions too)
5) Clan's make deals and NAP's, etc. Factions can't!
I think #5 is what really has Screwed-the-Pooch for the server politics. I'm not saying Clan's can't make deals but what about a Faction being able to change it's relationship towards other Factions based on a Faction Vote?
Problem is we have a some-what-static story line fed by the developers to the masses but the masses are dynamic and are trying to determine their own fate ...
edit: spent too long composing the post and Cyphor beat me to it :)
..but if there was a solution to 1, 2 and 3, what then? Do you think that might be enough?
TheGreatMilenko
19-03-04, 18:34
i dont really care about faction or clans im solo in this game most the time
..but if there was a solution to 1, 2 and 3, what then? Do you think that might be enough?
yea I think #1 need addressing. I really don't have any ideas atm on how to straighten it out but we've seen some decent suggestions from time-to-time pop up on the board ...
#2 requires a balance. How do we let clans deal with security but keep the gen-pop happy? Ok how about this:
1) Move all genreps away from the OP. Maybe in the same zone maybe 1 zone over
2) Place a Genrep UG that's tied only to the controlling clan - you can gen in/out but only clan members and it's autotmatically (is this in place already?) transfered when the OP changes hands
3) or scrap 1+2 and just put more non-op genreps in the wastes
Yea ok you say "run or buy a veh you noob" but that's just not going to cut it. People been preaching it for years and so far nothing has changed for the majority of the players. MB, El Farid, etc. are still the most popular places to lvl because Clan's can't shut off the genrep ...
3# is gunna piss off a whole messa' runners initially, and by itself won't do much but stack everybody on a favorite Faction for the Epic item but maybe if some other rewards were tied into belonging to a Faction (and a solution to #1 and faction hopping) it might work:
1) Maybe dividends are paid out to the entire faction based on Op control - gotta figure out how to can the moochers though
2) Let Factions control ops just like Clans??? wacky I know but what if a couple non clanned runners get together and go snake an OP from a rival faction?:
a) The OP stays open to the entire faction and can't be changed
b) the guys that took the OP get some sort of one time monetary bonus (lord knows how to determine who did what to the OP)
c) the OP bunus is applied to entire Faction and can't be changed
d) Faction members genrep to UG
3) As a TT runner for more than 1 year I have yet to be contacted by my Faction to help out with some Faction Goal. I have yet to see anything announced on Faction chat (other than some faction runners needing help at an OP or spam) related to my Faction etc. You get my point.
IMO the faction should ALWAYS come first.
There should never be a clan on any server that is bigger and more important than even the least populated faction on that server.
metalangel
19-03-04, 19:12
I think the problem might be that there are clans so huge and/or powerful they are essentially a law unto themselve... on Saturn I would consider these to be clans like Cartel, Templars, ASEN, FR, Imposing Order, Neogen.... keep in mind I'm not dissing any of these clans, I'm just saying I've noticed they're big and mean :D
The problem this produces is that the clan considers its business over that of the faction... because what does the faction do for it, exactly? And that indeed is a flaw in the game, you're not really given much incentive to serve the faction, when you'll do just as well with a big clan only worrying about itself.
Unfortunately, this also makes internal politics hopelessly confusing... as some clans declare war on clans from an allied faction (or even within the same faction, I'm sure people know ASEN and FR don't get along always). It means an everchanging landscape of not knowing who to attack... I remember being at the bunker and seeing a CMA member attacking an FA... and I had no idea whose aid to run to.
Recently, a few factions seem to be realizing that working together as a faction, at least sometimes, on the clan level produces better results. I mean, within a faction, you'll find one-on-one help with repairs or pokes or getting a lift, but co-ordinating several clans to drop whatever their members are doing and go after an OP together is another thing altogether.
Still, I suppose the good side of the bizarre alliances is that you get to know your adversaries as well as your buddies. I love the social aspect of this game, being able to banter with your foes makes a huge difference to the game - unlike Planetside, where the two enemy forces are just faceless villains. In NC, you see the other sides as fellow humans :D
The primary problem right now is that the factions are not balanced in any way whatsoever. The benefits you gain are really diverse, the locations you're safe in are not equal, the enemies you take on vary. People gravitate to certain factions because they offer the most favorable living conditions. A decent number of enemies (not just number of hostile factions, but also strong clans in those hostile factions) can make or break a faction. I love Tsunami, but our alliances/hostiles are god awful. We're allied with Diamond and Biotech, but hostile to City Admin, ProtoPharma, Crahn, and BD. Until recently we had almost no strong friends/enemies in any of those factions, allied or hostile. Once in a while a red enemy would pop up and we'd be extatic, but something always goes wrong. A strong bd clan showed up and gave us a real challenge, until they sided with the existing strong clans in TT and totaly anihilated us. A strong CA clan has appeared twice, but each time ended up going with the strong TT clans and being too much for us. A strong Crahn clan pops up and again sides with our enemies in Tangent. The only time's we've had fun fighting red's is when Tangent is currently out of the picture. But once Tangent gets involved again, we hafta side with TG to fight them. We ally with neutrals/hostiles to fight neutrals/hostiles/allies.
I love a complex politcal system, but it needs to be thought out better and especialy not when they try to turn it into a two sided war. I imagine what they're gonna do is change the alliance/hostiles so the factions are more balanced and line up evenly neocron vs doy. That'll mean some major storyline changes for many of the factions, but it is a new a game afterall.
This whole faction business clashes technically with clans. If you have one, you cannot have the other, if both are meant for the same purpose. The results of this can be seen in its full extend on Saturn (and probably on other servers as well).
Secondly I dunno why clan vs. clan fights in one faction should be disallowed. For example BD is like the mafia, and clans will fight over the same set of resources, same faction or not.
Furthermore, someone has yet to explain to me, how clans fit into companies like TT or BT. Either you are part of the company (= employee) or not. You may have a clan which has a contract with a company, but you are not an employee then (so not a "member" of that faction).
It would be much easier, if the faction and the clan system are designed "orthogonal" to each other, means they don't aim at the same goal.
Anyway, we don't know how the system will be changed, but I have a bad feeling about the stuff BDoY will bring us in this matter ...
I sort of wish there was a little more esprit de corp in the factions... Instead of a common goal that is defined for us or someone to guide us they allow us to form our own... and it tends to get convoluted and turns into a big mess.
The faction ideas are great and would really benefit from a set storyline that we follow and goals that we can achieve as a faction.
As it stands now since I am TT on Saturn, when I am out hunting and see someone else (wether they are allied or not) I almost always have to attack... it is kind of a mess.
So at this point I would say clan is more important than faction, even though I wish the reverse where true.
Originally posted by Estabin
I sort of wish there was a little more esprit de corp in the factions... Instead of a common goal that is defined for us or someone to guide us they allow us to form our own... and it tends to get convoluted and turns into a big mess.
The faction ideas are great and would really benefit from a set storyline that we follow and goals that we can achieve as a faction.
As it stands now since I am TT on Saturn, when I am out hunting and see someone else (wether they are allied or not) I almost always have to attack... it is kind of a mess.
So at this point I would say clan is more important than faction, even though I wish the reverse where true.
Hey I never thought about that, it would have made the factions more distinct if they named the clans something differant depending on which faction you are in.
Like for TT and BT instead of clan it would be called "Branch", BD could have "Gangs" and CM could have "Division" could really add some flavor.
I really hate the whole war idea, at the very least they should have some of the factions have a third stance to not join either side.
Wars usually have clear cut lines for the soldiers but not everybody else, since we are supposed to be the whole of neocron and doy population not just the soldiers it shouldn't be so simple.
I also don't think FC should have any power to penalize runners in a faction, but rewarding clans or runners could be a good idea.
I started playing this game for the cool cyberpunk feel not some dumb future war that I could care less which side wins.
To sum it up crackheads will do whatever we find to be the option which is the most fun wether we have to fight our own faction during doy or not.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
TG on saturn is a real damn mess. Maybe the worst faction I've ever seen. I really can't blame Cartel hating them so much.
ahahaha its worse on pluto birdbrains
While I agree you should be allowed to go against your faction, you shouldn't get away with it. There's no reason your faction should allow you to exist if you consistantly go against their wishes. There should be a boundry of some sort, beyond which you have totaly alienated yourself/clan from the faction and they want nothing to do with you. At that point the faction should be able to at the very least impair/penalize you. For compensation, you would be looked favorably on by the enemy of your faction. For example maybe you wouldn't hafta pay money to switch to the hostile faction, and would automaticly be given the needed 30 sympathy. Afterall if you are actively fighting members of your own faction, you realy shouldn't be in that faction. You should be in a faction hostile to yours.
A big reason we're so screwed right now is that there is no penalty. The worst we have is soul light loses for attacking neutral/allied. If there was a deterrant, some reason to actualy play along the lines you're supposed to.. then I believe we wouldn't have such screwed up politics.
It's the same as with the soul light system. Good/Evil should exist and both be viable, neither should be so heavily punished. But that doesn't mean evil should have it easy, so neither should black sheep clans be treated the same.
The Ottoman
20-03-04, 17:09
Basically the two empires Neocron and Dome of York resemble the situation during the Cold War. There was the West(Neocron) and the East(Dome of York). Each consisted of several independend states(factions) with their own agenda's. One side however was kapitalist while the other was communist. I don't mind if this is somehow(tweaked of course) implemented in BDoY.
Why not let big clan's become "independend"? Let's say for instance if they hold 10(or 1 or 5 or whatever) op's their status becomes independend if they wish. As if they were a faction of their own. They can stay loyal to their empire and faction but independence should be an option.
Of course independence is not given voluntilary. I wouldn't count on a understanding behaviour of your former factionguards or any other factionguard as you will be treated as traitors and therefor be shot on sight. :D Remember when Hungary or Czechoslovakia had their revolts in the fifthies and sixties. The Russians immidiately send in their tanks. But you will have your op's. Your own places to hangout. Easy acces to droms.;) Not those chicks in PP wich duck in fear every time you take out your "gun".:D
Being independed would mean you're enemy of all factions. Of course you can always ally with other independend clan's. Being independend you'd have to take care of getting your resources on your own. No acces to A&W's, no Cryton's, no Hew's, no drugstores,... You'd need your own ressers and constructors to build parts and stuff. To cut it short you're gonna need a hell of an organisation to get what you want. You can't buy PA armor and other items wich are unbpable unless from the blackmarket(like a trader's union).
If a Traders Union would come in the game members of these neutral(both to Neo and York) could provide the independend clans with resources. Naturally the traders can fix their own prices. Can you smell the profit? :D
O and one more thing. If one of your chars belongs to a certain faction the rest of your chars should belong to the same faction. I know this could be easy solved by having a second account but somehow even those chars should belong to the same faction. It's simple if you want something you have to fight for it or pay for it.
To amend the idea above, I would say that clan size (but not just numbers, instead all members ranks added together) rather than OPs held.
Aziraphale
20-03-04, 22:36
I kinda like the sound of Ottomans idea, but I think the map would have to be substantially enlarged to make such a thing viable.
And noone would remain an independant faction for longer than a day cos of those uber 1337 ninja hax0rs.
Make outpost controlled by Faction only instead of clan.
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