View Full Version : Apu's Vs Ppu's
i have to bring up this subject again
APUS AND SPIES
i keep seeing apus going on about, 'dont forget we get taken down so easily' and 'we die in a few seconds, but people forget about spies, for starters, spies con and resists suck ass big style, and i personnally dont think the spies low resists, high range to the apu's higher then spies resists, incredible damage for example
spies: crap con, crap resists, big range, the only way they can be viable is by using shelter but even then it was not implemented to origionally be used by a spy as u need drugs for it ( and the only advantages we get are the snipers long range, the first love misses like fuck, a little bit of the disruptors extra range, and range from the healing light, and the redeemer, which is shit anyways, and of which PE's can use guns like the healing light and redeemer if they drugged anyways
APU's: better con then spies, A LOT better armour, short range (but im sure even apu's do have one pritty fair ranged spell, not sure which tho), INCREDIBLE DAMAGE, and like i said range which isnt even much worse then a pistol PE or spy.
another thing i wish to refer to is the armours, this is what annoys me the most, psi monks, ecspecially apus, have there OWN psi required armour which gives force, pierce, AND energy and fire resist all in 1 set, and the resists from the armour are very good to. and spies? well they have to drug up to fuck and use a moveon just for some bloody inq boots and pants, which still doesnt help the energy resist, and then u may think, well apus have crap str, so they cant use that kinda armour, but then of cause THEY HAVE THERE OWN WHICH REQUIRES PSI! O DEAR ME HOW COULD I FORGET?! *slap slap* and for energy resist the only major piece of armour, heavy energy belts, AND EVEN THEN, APU's can use those to.
and then the damage, im specifically aiming this as rifle spies btw, rifles are pritty good damage, but apu's are just taking the piss ever so slightly, not because of the damage they do, because of how the incredible damage is in place for the lack of range, while the reduce in damage for a spy is in place for range, its a BIG BIG difference.
now u might think, well spies have stealth, OF CAUSE!!!, o wait, well for starters in PvP duels etc we cant use guns with stealth so its really just a runaway tool, and even then, if i do decide to have stealth to protect me, i have to gimp my tech combat to hell, and more importantly, my dex setup, just to use it, and even then holy sight sanctum and its gone. i know there will be some points i have missed out which do make the different slightly more viable but overall the difference between apus and spies cannot be argued to be 100% correct, as far as i think anyways.
and to the people on here who will end up posting flames repeating the things i said on here with a arguementitive point which ive already actually said, then before you post a quote to argue a point or whatever, please read what it says below it, thankyou.
/set Kill_self 1
Psyco Groupie
17-03-04, 22:39
spies are better than apus in some aspects and apus are better than spies in others, in a duel where the spy has drugged for shelt and has a con and armor setup the spy will nearly always win.
its not shameless to stealth away from an apus range then take a shot at him just dont run off and be defeated .. but i'd says an apu with a ppu would be harder than p00p to take down unless you had a spirit mod and some bullets with a farily long range nrg weap .. ho hum
either way .. the classes are sw33t atm imo.
Great. Trust me to make a worthless comment, and Psyco to offer a constructive opinion. What is this world coming to?
Max Jefferson
17-03-04, 22:42
It's pretty simple. KK wants APUs to be better then spys.
Yes, it sucks, I loved my pistol spy I've had since release, but there isn't much we can do. So just sit in the corner like a good tradeskiller and don't dare complain. :(
Forget My Name
17-03-04, 22:43
Originally posted by Glok
Great. Trust me to make a worthless comment, and Psyco to offer a constructive opinion. What is this world coming to?
HOly shit... Psyco said more than 5 word!!!! You're right, I think the world is going to shit...
Psyco Groupie
17-03-04, 22:53
Originally posted by Forget My Name
HOly shit... Psyco said more than 5 word!!!! You're right, I think the world is going to shit...
all your posts are complete BS .. FO.
Clownst0pper
17-03-04, 22:55
Why do people force a spy into the 'close combat' catagory.
A spy can have resists equal to a tank, hit as hard as a tank, and use shelter.
Sure you have to drug, but only 1 for shelter if you get your setup right.
An APU cant heal or buff, thats what spies have over APU's.
Comparing them is stupid. Ask divide, he will give u some pointers
Koro's brother
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Why do people force a spy into the 'close combat' catagory.
A spy can have resists equal to a tank, hit as hard as a tank, and use shelter.
Sure you have to drug, but only 1 for shelter if you get your setup right.
An APU cant heal or buff, thats what spies have over APU's.
Comparing them is stupid. Ask divide, he will give u some pointers
Koro's brother
right first i must add w00t t3h f00k?!?!
and one no spies CANT have resists equal to a tank, they just cant, they cant hit as hard as a tank either, maybe very close but not as powerful as far as im concerned, and jesus our incredible below 20 psi resists make us pwn im sure, basic resist booster 2, deflector, spy 1, shelter, they really bearly make any difference, only deflector and definalty shelter make the real differences, but i dont think they make up for what the apus have over spies
Psyco Groupie
17-03-04, 23:16
Spies rock, 1 drug if you got an SA, more if not .. plenty O' resists.
Clownst0pper
17-03-04, 23:27
Shelter alone reduces soooo much dmg, resist 2 gives +15 poison, Heavy energy + inq 1, + shelter is tank resist, the shelter makes this.
First love fucking tears through anyone, aim at there legs.
Put into psi use, and u can run cast heal, combine with stealth2, and your character is amazing.
Sorry but spys are shit hot, a first love and disruptor dmg boost would be tops, otherwise, they really are the class to have. :D
Koro's bro-
Well he has a point when it comes to damage delivery. Long range fighting is gimped. Gimped, gimped and finally gimped.
Spies are mostly fine except from op-war/ppu situations. You need to have constant high damage output to make a difference. It all boils down to one thing. It cant be said often enough. The PPU is the problem.
I wonder how increased fps and better engine is going to effect battles? If we get rid of the fog and can see for miles (erm zone edge) and can keep a good constant fps at op fights thats going to do rifle users good.
Forget My Name
17-03-04, 23:34
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
all your posts are complete BS .. FO.
Ironic.
Shadow Dancer
18-03-04, 00:09
Apus can't heal, cast deflector(yes it makes a difference, don't give me BS), stealth, or realisticly cap int.
I understand your point, but please don't be so one sided. They both have skills and unique traits the other doesn't possess. Also spies can drug for shelter. May not be a big deal to you, but I wouldn't mind popping one drug to get like 25-30% less damage against energy/fire/x-ray. Hell I pop beast all the time because of the monk PA speed nerf.
As for pistol spies, how much free int points do they get to mess around with? Thought so. :rolleyes:
Like I said, they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Oh and, why does your title say APU's vs PPU's?
O_o
I can't stand when people make class comparisons and conveniently forget to mention(or they downplay) the perks of their own class.
And if you're complaining about not doing enough damage at op wars or not being important enough. Blame PPUs and KK. :p
EDIT: Complaining about holy true sight sanctum? Give me a break. Now you're really stretching it.
APU's can cast heal though Shad. It's just that most choose not to spec for it as theyd rather get a higher damage %. Now I understand that the higher percent is better so most people dont even think of speccing a lil PPU at all, but your statement is not completely 100% true.
It doesnt help that APU PA takes away PPU at all, but it isnt impossible to spec for tl 3 heal. It may just be a little unviable to some of you.
Considering the amount stealthing most spys do (ever try taking out your gun? :p ) Theres nothign to complai about truesight. It has a geerally sall radius. Stay out of it. Secondly try using a gu more then stealthing. Most people tend to do better when nto stealthing everytime a bullet is shot at them....
Psyco Groupie
18-03-04, 00:42
Originally posted by Forget My Name
Ironic.
no not really .. seeing as I haven't posted any spam in a month cos im on my last warning, why your still here is a miracle
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Shelter alone reduces soooo much dmg, resist 2 gives +15 poison, Heavy energy + inq 1, + shelter is tank resist, the shelter makes this.
First love fucking tears through anyone, aim at there legs.
Put into psi use, and u can run cast heal, combine with stealth2, and your character is amazing.
Sorry but spys are shit hot, a first love and disruptor dmg boost would be tops, otherwise, they really are the class to have. :D
Koro's bro-
Sorry but this is bogus, in order to use Inq 1 you have to use drugs, in order to use Shelter you have to use drugs... this is not viable in an OP war, if you use more than one drug you are almost guaranteed a drug flash, if you use stealth while on a drug you are guaranteed a drug flash AND the drug flash gets worse the more you use stealth. At that point you can't use more drugs to clear up the drug flash, once you get to a certain point you will have it no matter how many you take making you pretty much useless.
Not many spies use First love due to the fact it is horrible with the hit % and you have to be pretty darn close in order for it to be viable... something Spies are not good at, close combat fighting and if Spies are THE class to have then why are they the least used during OP fights? A PPU with hack is a better hacker... heck PEs are better hackers since they will last longer if attacked. It really sounds like you haven't played a combat spy.
I would like better armor but to be honost I enjoy my rifle spy and use him constantly during OP fights and have learned to keep my distance, I have found Spies are better on assaulting OPs than defending so I have started a tank to help on defense... but spies are doing pretty good at the moment with the boost to SH and stealth. APUs are usually right up in the mix of things and have huge targets over there heads since most people will want to take them down first... it could use some tweaking but I don't think it is that bad at the moment.
an apu with a heal is no longer an apu, but becomes a hybrid.
Also, that "/set kill_self 1" wont work, coz the kill has a capital K =-P
O_o
Estabin, I dunno....I find myself shaking my head at a lot of what you said, even though I haven't played the game considerably enough in order to have solid reasoning.
Flame me if you want, I'm already aware I might be saying shit.
But hey, I dunno... if I can make a PE wear Marine CPU without drugging, I might be able to get a Spy to do all that without drugging...might.
Personally I haven't tried making a Spy yet, so that's the kill-all, end-all for me to have any real substance to my post, but take a look at my post and see if you're right. If you are, cheers. :)
Originally posted by Kenjuten
O_o
Estabin, I dunno....I find myself shaking my head at a lot of what you said, even though I haven't played the game considerably enough in order to have solid reasoning.
Flame me if you want, I'm already aware I might be saying shit.
But hey, I dunno... if I can make a PE wear Marine CPU without drugging, I might be able to get a Spy to do all that without drugging...might.
Personally I haven't tried making a Spy yet, so that's the kill-all, end-all for me to have any real substance to my post, but take a look at my post and see if you're right. If you are, cheers. :)
If you start using Str imps on a spy your damage output will take a hit, then you will start be comparable to a rifle/PE which begs the question, why not just roll a PE? No matter wut you gotta drug up to use shelter, and drugging during an OP war while having to stealth doesn't work...
It might look good on the skill manager but what really counts is field testing and how viable it is on the battle field, if you are losing implants to be able to use a weaker armor than others who will have similar damage output but more defense than what is the use? I personally go for as much damage as I can and hope I can skulk away and try to stay out of close combat.
PS
I don't flame people man, if your logic is sound and the setup looks good I might try it :p I will change my opinion on things when I see that mine is wrong... but my combat spy I have used in both OP wars and duels so I am pretty familiar with strengths and weaknesses of the class...
Apollo's Fist
18-03-04, 04:35
Spies can have very good defence, and the ability to stealth away before death. With self-buffs, shelter, deflector, spy 1, rifle 1, and basic resist 1, and only the use of Destrosol Forte (to use shelter) and the option of taking beast, and redflash if you want to run fast, you can have a spy like this:
http://www.angelfire.com/anime5/apollo/CRAZY
My thoughts:
- Spies need some kind of basic armor at their disposal without using drugs.
- Range on weapons should be re-worked, aiming and range should be two separate features, that way each class could be on its range.....OR..... the clipping plane limitation needs a way to be worked around (scopes with no clipping plane limit, etc..).
- High TL weapons, read as spy-designed weapons, need significant advantages over their lower TL counter-parts. Boost First Love, Disruptor and Silent Hunter.... not necessarily in damage, but they need ANYTHING to be used above RoG and PE.
Now said this, I don't know why are you going crazy with APUs. What's exactly wrong with them compared to spies. The ones wrong are spies, not APUs... in this field.
- You cannot blame APUs for having PSI armors. APUs NEED it.
- You cannot blame APUs for having their weapon current range. It IS balanced.
- Definetely you cannot blame APUs for having extreme damage in their weapons. In fact APUs just have two PvP usefull direct damage weapons, and one debuff.
I'm not sure what kind of mentality is this; if your class is broken the solution is not bitching at others to be nerfed, but instead make constructive threads with necessary additions for your class.
I play both capped Spy and APU, both have all weapons and implants to be in the top. Both have room in my gamming, each one has a different role to play in it.
It's true that Spies need improvements and fixes, so does the APU in other fields. It's also true that Spies+stealth need to be normalized in par with other classes limitations, it's also true that APU+PPU combos need to be normalized with the positives-negatives given to the other classes.
But what are spies exactly asking in this thread?
Reading the first post confused me more than explaining what was the topic.
If with a class spies should be compared to ask for differenciations between both, that is Spy vs PE. Spies have NOTHING in common with APU tactics, nothing.
Like I said it is really easy to try to roll up something that looks good on the skill manager but it would need to be battle tested, also I could pick apart that setup if I was at home but since I am at work I don't have the skill manager so can't go into detail really. Also I believe you would need to stay drugged up to use Battle armor 3 with that setup and doing one drug and stealthing is bad... try doing 3 drugs and stealthing then have the drugs wear off in the middle of battle... the drug flash will be pretty darn nasty.
You also gotta figure that most APUs that see a spy will know they will stealty away so they try to stack up Poison on yea... yea you can antidote but that is another drug you gotta take.
Skill managers are easy since you got everything at your fingertips but yea need to get into the game and try it out before you know if it is viable or not.
Oh and btw, no way in heck you are gonna be wearing that "ultimate power battlesuit" without yet another drug...
since the Silent Hunter was brought up...
FFS I hope DoY fixes the clipping range so that rifles get longer distances. =\
Bah skill manager setups never fit with all persons, each one needs his own setup.
I have 191 RC, 165 WEP and 111 HCK
70 ATL and 95 AGL
115+ in ENR/FIR and 160+ in X-RAY
306 HLT (I could have 400 but only 100+ ENR/FIR)
56/31/4 in PSI for shelter, altho I don't use it much (I hate to use too many drugs).
I use ONE drug: Beast. It lasts 10 minutes and I consider it one of my buffs. I rarely get drug flash.
My damage output is great, I can use stealth 3 even without selfbuffs. I wish that Beast was not a necessity, but I doubt it happens.
Originally posted by cRazy2003
i have to bring up this subject again
APUS AND SPIES
i keep seeing apus going on about, 'dont forget we get taken down so easily' and 'we die in a few seconds, but people forget about spies, for starters, spies con and resists suck ass big style, and i personnally dont think the spies low resists, high range to the apu's higher then spies resists, incredible damage for example
spies: crap con, crap resists, big range, the only way they can be viable is by using shelter but even then it was not implemented to origionally be used by a spy as u need drugs for it ( and the only advantages we get are the snipers long range, the first love misses like fuck, a little bit of the disruptors extra range, and range from the healing light, and the redeemer, which is shit anyways, and of which PE's can use guns like the healing light and redeemer if they drugged anyways
APU's: better con then spies, A LOT better armour, short range (but im sure even apu's do have one pritty fair ranged spell, not sure which tho), INCREDIBLE DAMAGE, and like i said range which isnt even much worse then a pistol PE or spy.
another thing i wish to refer to is the armours, this is what annoys me the most, psi monks, ecspecially apus, have there OWN psi required armour which gives force, pierce, AND energy and fire resist all in 1 set, and the resists from the armour are very good to. and spies? well they have to drug up to fuck and use a moveon just for some bloody inq boots and pants, which still doesnt help the energy resist, and then u may think, well apus have crap str, so they cant use that kinda armour, but then of cause THEY HAVE THERE OWN WHICH REQUIRES PSI! O DEAR ME HOW COULD I FORGET?! *slap slap* and for energy resist the only major piece of armour, heavy energy belts, AND EVEN THEN, APU's can use those to.
and then the damage, im specifically aiming this as rifle spies btw, rifles are pritty good damage, but apu's are just taking the piss ever so slightly, not because of the damage they do, because of how the incredible damage is in place for the lack of range, while the reduce in damage for a spy is in place for range, its a BIG BIG difference.
now u might think, well spies have stealth, OF CAUSE!!!, o wait, well for starters in PvP duels etc we cant use guns with stealth so its really just a runaway tool, and even then, if i do decide to have stealth to protect me, i have to gimp my tech combat to hell, and more importantly, my dex setup, just to use it, and even then holy sight sanctum and its gone. i know there will be some points i have missed out which do make the different slightly more viable but overall the difference between apus and spies cannot be argued to be 100% correct, as far as i think anyways.
and to the people on here who will end up posting flames repeating the things i said on here with a arguementitive point which ive already actually said, then before you post a quote to argue a point or whatever, please read what it says below it, thankyou.
/set Kill_self 1
Wow! Heres and idea? Moveon Bezerk 2 Str booster 2 and pistols. this is good setup with shelter inq armor and energy belt... try it.
JackScratch
18-03-04, 08:03
Im finding this to be a very apropriot responce to a lot of these threads
Does the word stratgey mean nothing on these forums any more. Is balance only achieved by makeing people who consider only small parts of the game, happy. And how does loseing with too much power at your disposal prove anything? The subject of game balance is rediculously complicated and yet people insist that they saw this one time where this one thing nhappened this one way and that proves it. Who do you kill first in a large battle? Why? How has that worked out. Why are the servers not comprised soley of one class? Is PvP the only factor to be considered when discussing balance? You people are so damn shortsighted it hurts, and the game is what it is hurting.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Why do people force a spy into the 'close combat' catagory.
A spy can have resists equal to a tank, hit as hard as a tank, and use shelter.
Sure you have to drug, but only 1 for shelter if you get your setup right.
An APU cant heal or buff, thats what spies have over APU's.
Comparing them is stupid. Ask divide, he will give u some pointers
Koro's brother
1. A spy will NEVER have resists equal to a tank. Not even with shelter.
2. A spy will never hit as hard as a tank.
3. Yeah true, a spy can use shelter. With drugs.
A spy has to
a)
completely stay outta the way and SNIPE or
b)
drug and gimp his r-c to get some nice defense.
About this whole thread...i dont get it. Spies are fine, APUs are fine. Well spies need more firepower and APUS need (once again) a fucking nerf. But apart from that, things are fine....o_O
And before you flame me, read my fucking sig. I know how to play a spy. For sure. You know, like ME > you. :)
Dunno where spies come into this, but this seems to be a popular misconception in this thread:
Originally posted by Sleawer
- Spies need some kind of basic armor at their disposal without using drugs.
Inq 1, PA3, 150/min Executioner, stealth 3 (still haven't lommed since the tc reductions), 10% fire/energy, 8% xray, appx 350 hp, decent runspeed, and OP hacking. No drugs. Pop a det forte for shelter and the damage goes down to 7%.
Just because some spies choose to munch on 1, 2, 3 drugs or even spec for Nightshade doesn't mean you need to. That's like assuming that since some PEs choose to run on every drug under the sun, all PEs are druggies.
JackScratch
18-03-04, 09:13
Spies come into this, because Crazy aint right, the post is called APU v PPUs, but his very first post is all about APUs Vs Spies.
Lol, it sounds like everyones getting up about how weak spies and APU's are again ..... get a rifle spy ....... get an SH ... and quit whinging.
As for APU's I think your just not playing them properly. My monk on uranus took on a roughneck spy with an SH and a roughneck tank with a Gatlin. I killed them both. End of Story.
Stop whinging
Ark
Spies wearing pure dexterity implants should have available inq/dur1 armors.
They can be fine now using drugs, using 3 STR implants is not fine to me.
Drugs > STR implants.
And morris, I use rifles. Pistols are easy as fuck to cap. I can make and I have made setups that do not need SA and cap all fucking pistols while wearing inq1 armors. My own PE has 110 dexterity without drugs.
Originally posted by Morris
Dunno where spies come into this, but this seems to be a popular misconception in this thread:
Inq 1, PA3, 150/min Executioner, stealth 3 (still haven't lommed since the tc reductions), 10% fire/energy, 8% xray, appx 350 hp, decent runspeed, and OP hacking. No drugs. Pop a det forte for shelter and the damage goes down to 7%.
Just because some spies choose to munch on 1, 2, 3 drugs or even spec for Nightshade doesn't mean you need to. That's like assuming that since some PEs choose to run on every drug under the sun, all PEs are druggies.
So you made a PE with a weak defense, if a rifle spy used 3 str imps to be able to use that setup then his RC takes a serious hit and he turns into a weak PE... so why not just role a PE?
Originally posted by Estabin
So you made a PE with a weak defense, if a rifle spy used 3 str imps to be able to use that setup then his RC takes a serious hit and he turns into a weak PE... so why not just role a PE?
Because a rifle spy can get as good resists as a PE, with better stats on FL and use stealth 2.
dont ask why the fuck it says apu's vs ppus cos i dunno, typo i guess, but its apus vs spies :p
i do think they are fine pritty much, im just annoyed at the very different contrasts, i wudnt mind if it was low spy defence high range and low apu defence but lower range for more damage but it ends up spies with low defence (in resist terms with armour), long range, and apus with low damage BUT higher then spies in resist terms with armour, medium range, im sure theres a apu spell which hasnt got bad range at all, just cant remember which, and they do fucking amazing damage, this is for range terms of cause, in PvP and in places like neofrag its just pointless, few HL hits and most spies are dead.
And another advantage is the apu has NO reticule, so its just aim and click, and they have very good dex for a monk, and of cause since they dont need any tech skill or rifle or pistol combat, they can have all there dex in agility, so they have amazing speed, and 5 extra con levels for some better athletics, and ive heard many people say 'well they need the speed to dodge because of there low defense' thats just bullshit, what about spies?, its a fact that they DO have MUCH lower defensive skills in terms of resists without drugs compared to a apu, and they need 90% of there bloody tech and rifle combat to cap the disruptors and first loves anyways, it bearly leaves any left over for agility and enough for stealth, like some have said, and also vehicle skill is someone wishes to choose to have some, i do admit spies can be good but the difference between the spies and the apus in terms of defense and damage is just stupid, face facts that compared to apus, spies are borked :( , and if u dont believe me read thru what i said in the first place then what ive said now and it will make sense
Originally posted by Zeekal
Lol, it sounds like everyones getting up about how weak spies and APU's are again ..... get a rifle spy ....... get an SH ... and quit whinging.
As for APU's I think your just not playing them properly. My monk on uranus took on a roughneck spy with an SH and a roughneck tank with a Gatlin. I killed them both. End of Story.
Stop whinging
Ark
and jesus christ make sense, do u expect me to roll a spy and JUST spend all my time with a stupid bloody sniper? why should i? its a fact a plain sniper spy is the most boring class in the game, u cant exactly close combat pvp with a sniper can u? unless u wanna die of cause, and if u want OP wars, they dont go on constantly either do they? i think u shud stop telling people like me what i shud and shudnt do and im being a bit more specific about close combat rifle spies.
and to this
As for APU's I think your just not playing them properly. My monk on uranus took on a roughneck spy with an SH and a roughneck tank with a Gatlin. I killed them both. End of Story.
hahahahaha WTF?!
are you against or with me on this arguement?
ive said compared to spies apus are to powerful in contrast to spies, and youve just completely proved my point, how apus with higher defense then spies and much more damage can take down both the spy AND the tank with a gatlin, and if a spy was in the same situation, he wudnt even do half damage to the tank before he was dead, in close combat situations there is definatly to much of a big difference
greendonkeyuk
18-03-04, 21:01
what exactly is a close combat rifle spy? If you are rifles then you have a nice range to use to your advantage. Apus DONT get that range without a serious damage reduction (ie a totally different spell). I have a spy, he is rifles. He loses more duels than he wins vs other classes but i dont whine about it. Ive beaten plenty at the same time. I do also agree that spies need something a little more than jus battlevest armour when they have capped strength. Spies are a lot more viable than the thread starter implies however they arent yet quite perfect. I would prefer not to have to use the moveon/bez2 chipsetup jus to squeeze my ass into inq armour, however now that we have spy pa and the fact that it gives us 100+ xray has given spies a MASSIVE boost conwise, yes monks get spirit armour or whatever its called which gives them nrg but spies arent the forgotten class you make them out to be. Perhaps these holovests will give us something better. I hope so.
half of spys usefulness is trade skill and the other is sniping stop bitching about this spys are weak but their weapons are uber.
kthxbye
Nightbrother
19-03-04, 09:50
Originally posted by Sleawer
Spies wearing pure dexterity implants should have available inq/dur1 armors.
They can be fine now using drugs, using 3 STR implants is not fine to me.
Drugs > STR implants.
And morris, I use rifles. Pistols are easy as fuck to cap. I can make and I have made setups that do not need SA and cap all fucking pistols while wearing inq1 armors. My own PE has 110 dexterity without drugs.
With imps that give you +30 in dex, you're not going to cap (m)any rare pistols, thats for sure, but you must already know that, if you have a PE with dex 110. You're using Motoric (a non-combat chip of course) and Vehicleinterface 3, also then, I gather? Or SA and Riggers Dream? Anyhow, pistols aren't fuck easy to cap on a PE, unless you don't mind having 10 AGL. ;)
By pure dex implants I assume also implants that provide DEX sub-skills. Even if they don't provide +DEX main skill, it is still a dexterity implant..., isn't it?
About my PE.
SF+SA+Balance3+Motoric3+Reflex4+PA4
The first and main problem with spies are high TL weapons... I don't have any reason to use weapons above PE, RoG and HL.
/edit:
With the PE I used to have:
SF+SA+Balistic3+Motoric3+Reflex4+PA4 for 108 dex and stealth II... now that I got a 3 slot RoLH and saw that Exe TL is not going to be dropped, I'll go back to this setup most likely.
Jesterthegreat
19-03-04, 13:27
Originally posted by cRazy2003
i have to bring up this subject again
APUS AND SPIES
i keep seeing apus going on about, 'dont forget we get taken down so easily' and 'we die in a few seconds, but people forget about spies, for starters, spies con and resists suck ass big style, and i personnally dont think the spies low resists, high range to the apu's higher then spies resists, incredible damage for example
spies: crap con, crap resists, big range, the only way they can be viable is by using shelter but even then it was not implemented to origionally be used by a spy as u need drugs for it ( and the only advantages we get are the snipers long range, the first love misses like fuck, a little bit of the disruptors extra range, and range from the healing light, and the redeemer, which is shit anyways, and of which PE's can use guns like the healing light and redeemer if they drugged anyways
APU's: better con then spies, A LOT better armour, short range (but im sure even apu's do have one pritty fair ranged spell, not sure which tho), INCREDIBLE DAMAGE, and like i said range which isnt even much worse then a pistol PE or spy.
another thing i wish to refer to is the armours, this is what annoys me the most, psi monks, ecspecially apus, have there OWN psi required armour which gives force, pierce, AND energy and fire resist all in 1 set, and the resists from the armour are very good to. and spies? well they have to drug up to fuck and use a moveon just for some bloody inq boots and pants, which still doesnt help the energy resist, and then u may think, well apus have crap str, so they cant use that kinda armour, but then of cause THEY HAVE THERE OWN WHICH REQUIRES PSI! O DEAR ME HOW COULD I FORGET?! *slap slap* and for energy resist the only major piece of armour, heavy energy belts, AND EVEN THEN, APU's can use those to.
and then the damage, im specifically aiming this as rifle spies btw, rifles are pritty good damage, but apu's are just taking the piss ever so slightly, not because of the damage they do, because of how the incredible damage is in place for the lack of range, while the reduce in damage for a spy is in place for range, its a BIG BIG difference.
now u might think, well spies have stealth, OF CAUSE!!!, o wait, well for starters in PvP duels etc we cant use guns with stealth so its really just a runaway tool, and even then, if i do decide to have stealth to protect me, i have to gimp my tech combat to hell, and more importantly, my dex setup, just to use it, and even then holy sight sanctum and its gone. i know there will be some points i have missed out which do make the different slightly more viable but overall the difference between apus and spies cannot be argued to be 100% correct, as far as i think anyways.
and to the people on here who will end up posting flames repeating the things i said on here with a arguementitive point which ive already actually said, then before you post a quote to argue a point or whatever, please read what it says below it, thankyou.
/set Kill_self 1
is this a boost spies thread?
ask around Uranus about if spies need a boost...
ask about kid smartass
or kid brainiac
or ask dribble joy about my spy.... its not capped and its not the best... but it performed.
ask sir rah the (fully?) capped APU who my 91 dex base pistol spy (with no MC5 / kami) killed with a judge in a NF duel (the one and only time i have fought him)
im not sayin im better than the people i named. far from it. however i am saying that spies are viable.
spies can get some insane resists, if you sacrifise resist poison of course, however the health wont be up there with it. spies are hard to balance run speed / damage / resists / health. very hard. however recently i have learned some very... strange setups, not particularly for spies... but worth adapting and trying.
anyway... spies viable :)
:edit: @ zeekal yeah! kill then roughnecks! :D
Nightbrother
19-03-04, 13:28
Hmmm, if you switched that Moto 3 with an Exp. Balistics Weaponchip 3, you'd still have enough Dex to use RoLH if you wanted, and you would get better DMG, FREQ and so on because it's a much, much better combat chip. :D
Why do you want so high dex? I like having better combat stats instead.
Well, you can get into PA4 without drugging, that's one thing, with having Dex 110.
Read the edit, I had some reasons behind to do that. The Moto must stay tho, to use lvl2 armors.
I have had various setups with the PE, 100 dex for judge and stealth I, 108 for RoG and stealth II (or +redflask and Exe, I like this weapon a lot) and lommed him to 110 dex setup waiting for the patch...
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