View Full Version : New Tai Chi Sword vs Old Vein Ripper
Does anyone know if the new Tai Chi Sword on the test server does more damage then the current Vein Ripper on the normal server?
Clive tombstone
17-03-04, 00:52
Theres gonna be a Tai ChI sword? (runs off to make a MC PE):D
Since it's got two TLs higher it should do slightly higher damage.
Though I can't guarantee that due to the fact damage on test was changed as well.
Anyway, it should be comparable. The only real negative is that it'll need some more M-C to cap (Due to both higher TL, and lower stats on the item), another thing you could view as being negative is that you'll no longer have a swirly.
Still, it's around the same strength.
Psyco Groupie
17-03-04, 17:55
wont be hard to get a 2 slotted tl 70 (?) odd item .. seeing as the mods give +39 dmg ? so an arti item would need to cap at 81 to get arti dmg
Yeah, Lupus indicated that all melee was gonna definitely be setup so that TL = damage, and that while a melee PE, for example, wont have easy access to a rare melee now, their melees will still do the same sort of damage since the TL will be the same.
Q`alooaith
18-03-04, 00:08
Though people are needed to go and get damage figures on the TS, that's capped health and no resists armor..
If people don't do this the damages will take longer to ballence properly..
Rember the test server is there to test for bugs and ballence, not to muck with your setup.
NS_CHROME54
18-03-04, 03:16
tai chi sword thingy? is this just your standard double edged sword? or a new type of sword?
edit: SCREENIE
Im still trying to bend my head around a PE setup with stealth 1
and decent melee, its impossible tho :/ hence no point in being
melee PE over Tank melee :(
aww poo I want to be a melee assassin *pout*
Q`alooaith
18-03-04, 11:44
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
edit: SCREENIE
No, it's just the same grafix used again... currently.
Heavyporker
18-03-04, 12:08
why would it be impossible to be melee PE with stealth? granted, you can't use rares, but really, would you be *that* gimped?
Because Bez chips take away int, and str spines take away dex.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
why would it be impossible to be melee PE with stealth? granted, you can't use rares, but really, would you be *that* gimped?
yeah, Ive experimented, and you would be *that* gimped.
This was my melee PE's (capped vein ripper)/stealthing config and it wasn't all that bad;
SF CPU, Special Riggers, Zerk 3, Moveon
Melee Eye 3
All antigamma bones except batqueen arm
The best part is I could stealth and use the medium energy belt which helps out alot in a good resist setup. If you setup your armor correctly you can have up to 85 Fire, 100 energy and 41 xray armor without factoring in your natural resists. Not very gimped at all.
rite. using a tl68 weapon tops is not gimped o_O Tested similar
setups and the damage output was horrid even with dmg boost.
Ask anyone who has battled Cut Throat on Saturn.
-edit-
Vein RIpper is TL 75
NS_CHROME54
18-03-04, 22:26
Originally posted by Rade
rite. using a tl68 weapon tops is not gimped o_O Tested similar
setups and the damage output was horrid even with dmg boost.
the price you hafta pay...
They should really call it something other than a Tai Chi sword.
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
the price you hafta pay...
Eh?
Price I have to pay for what? No thanks, Ill stick with pistols PE
and melee tank since PEs have nothing on tanks when it comes
to melee. I just think its sad that melee PE isnt competitive, it
would be a nice touch.
Trust me. Melee PE is highly viable. If you'd like and if you are on Saturn I would be happy to demonstrate. Just PM me and we can setup some time. Either that or ask anyone who has battled my PE.
PE with melee and stealth isnt viable, normal melee PE is just like
a melee tank, only slightly worse, and that difference is going to
become even bigger after the new melee weapon TLs goes live.
The problem is that there is no benefit of being a melee PE over a
melee tank. Mind you Im not saying it should be better, just
different. For example lowering the int req on stealth 1 (not the
rest) would accomplish this, then melee PEs would do less
damage but have stealth 1 compared to melee tanks.
I have fought kramer which supposedly is a incredibly good melee
PE and Im not impressed. I have a melee tank and a pistol PE, a
melee PE would be worse than those in every aspect.
A # of key strengths a "Melee Stealthing"(-edited-)PE has over a tank;
1) Medium Energy belt - 47.6 energy resist from armor is alot no matter what class you are. This alone allows for a great resist setup.
2) Access to good armor - you can use level 4 duranit, level 4 inq. and heavy durinium boots if you'd like. Hell you can throw on PE PA if you'd like to get more energy resist.
3) Run and heal - with 35 psi you can cast a TL 5 heal on yourself during battle
4) Shelter and Blessed Deflector - They are both stronger then a forein cast Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector
5) Stealth - The ability to dissapear and heal or adapt by changing armors or just be sneaky. LIke if you are fighting a APU and he starts poisoning you. You stealth, take a antipoison drug, pop o the viper king and get back to action.
Thats what I can think of for now.
A melee tank can runcast heal as well. The rest of the points is
about defence, compare to a Tank and he will have almost as
good defence as a melee PE has with his shields up. Then take
group battles with PPUs into account, there a Tank will have alot
higher defence than the PE. A melee PE deals damage inferior by
far both to Melee tanks and pistol PEs. And no, they cant use
stealth, if they do they gimp the damage output beyond
recognition.
I have never seen a tank run cast heal. I've seen them crawl cast them before but thats the closest i have ever seen to run cast.
Have any examples of what armor and resists a tank has that gives them better defences then a PE? I've played with the numbers myself and have never seen it.
Melee PE vs Pistol PE comes down to speed. With the dex points not spent in P-C or R-C you can pour them into AGL creating a very fast and hard to hit PE. Even though the damage is less it does add up.
How does being able to stealth gimp your damage output? I cap a vein ripper(not paw of tiger) with the config listed on page one of this thread.
I can runcast heal on my tank. Or stagger cast or whatever, just
strafe a little and itll cast just fine. Not like you need to run in a
straight line forward in combat anyway. The defence Im
comparing is my PEs and my Tanks defences, both are top notch
for their classes. Melee PEs dont have alot higher speed than
Pistol PEs anyway, since after the softcap the gain isnt really
noticeable except for yourself ie when travelling. The setup you
posted has 68 str, the vein ripper is 75, I take it that you drug
then. If you include drugs on a pistol PE setup for example they
will excell even more compared to a melee PE.
And still, "next patch" the melee weapons will be changed around
and the melee PE become even worse _compared_ to a melee
tank.
A tank who sacrifices weapon lore, or who can afford to on account of using melee, can put all his INT into psi use and thus cap RoF on heal. With nearly 500% damage on the heal on top, that's enough to stagger cast at least.
And Rade, a melee PE compared to melee Tank is no different to a pistol Tank compared to a pistol PE when you think about it. Both should be good be better than they are, but they're in the same position.
Yeah I know sci, but I just think that melee PEs could be a fun
addition and it would take so little to make them special and
viable. Just dump the int reqs on stealth 1 to 50 or something
and then melee PEs would interesting at least.
One of the things I said when I posted the implant setup was it "was" my (old) setup. I have a new setup that is even stronger and from what I have gathered will do even more damage after the melee changes hit retail. Although I won't be able to stealth :)
Don't get me wrong I am not saying I am invulnerable. However the number of people I have run into that can beat me one on one I can count on one hand :)
Melee PE vs Pistol PE comes down to better resists, more speed(it is noticeable and I'm not done loming all my P-C) and "Monk like point and click aiming" vs more potential damage.
I forgot to list my backbone but with it in the old config i would get 73 str before drugs and 78 after.
There is one big weakness that Melee has right now though. If someone is running from you and on your screen you are hitting them and numbers are rolling off, it doesn't count. Something to do with the servers natural lag but you can be hitting them for days and the damage will never register. Even if you are running alongside them. It's crap :(
By resists earlier I mainly meant prc. Although with the new setup I'm slowly migrating to I'm almost on par to a PPU buffed tank :)
Originally posted by Marx
They should really call it something other than a Tai Chi sword.
Agree.
EDIT:
Some explaination
Although Tai Chi used to be a chinese martial arts school in ancient times, nowadays people practice Tai Chi mostly as a sport for well-being like yoga. In that context a Tai Chi sword is just an exercise equipment, not a weapon anymore.
So unless KK intends to introduce some other weapons like hula hoops or medicine balls I'd suggest a change of name.
Tai Chi - A Chinese system of physical exercises designed especially for self-defense and meditation
So it's a exersize and meditation sword i guess. Shouldn't it give like +3 INT then? haha
What are the reqs on stealth 1 again? I wanna mess around with the skillmanager.
THEY SHOULD CALL IT THE DAIKATANA
90 or 80 Dex and 60 INT i think
I just checked ingame. 65 int, 90 dex and 80 tc for stealth 1. Imma mess around and post a setup later. 3 drugs are needed as far as I can see.
3 drugs?
Beast, redflash and desterol forte?
Ok here it is. Redflash, whiteflash and Dest forte are required. Beast is an extra for the TL77-81 melee weapons.
http://glok.20megsfree.com/meleestealthPE.jpg
Eww... titan armor and light duranium boots.
Originally posted by whifix
Eww... titan armor and light duranium boots.
both are mint, whats eww?
titan armor is probably the best piece of armor in the game that isn't PA
Dribble Joy
19-03-04, 10:23
Drug up and swap the zerk 2 for a marine, more htl then.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Drug up and swap the zerk 2 for a marine, more htl then. That would require both beast and x-strong though wouldn't it? 5 drugs... eek. And you would have to stay on them to keep the marine active. Of course, you are the uber druggie PE right DJ? I guess that doesn't scare you. ;)
edit: What am I saying?? In the setup I posted, the dex drugs are needed for the SF. Not much diff between that and drugging into a marine also...
Dribble Joy
19-03-04, 13:10
Gah didn't look at the setup/post properly.
Base STR 60.
zerk3, str booster 3, MOVEON, that's str 73, two drugs and imp the marine. Beast (which lasts as long as your main buffs), to keep it activated. STR 83 then with one drug
But that means 4 drugs.
Just cos you can't stealth doesn;t mean you aren't viable, just look at the lowtechers.
I'm not an uber drug whoring PE, that's Xantor. I only use one drug, OK my char is utterly addicted and reliant on redflash, but it's only one :p.
Yeah, the times when you don't feel the need to stealth, you wouldn't need any drugs at all. The drugs are purely for stealth, maybe the str drugs for the BoC (or the Tai Chi after the melee patch).
Originally posted by g0rt
both are mint, whats eww?
titan armor is probably the best piece of armor in the game that isn't PA
Why use light duranium when you can use heavy?
The only thing good about Titan armor compared to Inq 4 is it gives 15.2 extra PRC resist but at the cost of 7.1 FRC and 0.1 fire. Also since it is so rare I would be pissed if I died wearing it and it droped.
Oh shit yeah, Heavy duranium should be in there. Doesn't change the basic premise though.
Originally posted by whifix
Why use light duranium when you can use heavy?
The only thing good about Titan armor compared to Inq 4 is it gives 15.2 extra PRC resist but at the cost of 7.1 FRC and 0.1 fire. Also since it is so rare I would be pissed if I died wearing it and it droped.
Considering piercing resist is the hardest thing to rack up in this game, I think both are small prices to pay. Onos not 0.1 fire! :lol:
I'm to lazy to get a screen grap from the skill manager but try punching in this setup instead and see what happens;
Brain Implants;
SF, Special Riggers, Berserk 3, Move On
Eye
Melee Combat 3
Heart
Strenthen Heart 2 (if you need poison resist just stealth and throw on viper king armor)
Bones
All Antigamma except batqueeen arm
Armor
Cypher Helmet, Inq Vest 4, Medium Energy belt, Inq 4 Pants, Heavy Duranium Boots
Drugs
RedFlash, Beast, X-Strong(For up to STR 82 weps)
Pierce resist is easy. Just throw points into resist force and you're done.
Originally posted by whifix
Pierce resist is easy. Just throw points into resist force and you're done.
Which you cannot do on a HC or Melee PE without gimping your offense. :o
This guys got a shitload into force, personally I wouldn't have anything in force because the low tl melee weapons are gonna suck as it is, you want a mad count of melee combat to insure getting alot of crits.
Clownst0pper
19-03-04, 23:02
Someone please explain to me, why it is ever worth being a Melee PE?
The tank is a class 100% designed to be melee, without gimpage, has the resists, can run cast just as well. With the new rares, it really wont be worth it :wtf:
K's bro-
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Someone please explain to me, why it is ever worth being a Melee PE?
The tank is a class 100% designed to be melee, without gimpage, has the resists, can run cast just as well. With the new rares, it really wont be worth it :wtf:
K's bro-
Melee tank's are also boring and cookie-cutter. After playing this game for, well coming up on two years for alot of us, playing those same-old setups can get kinda old.
Originally posted by g0rt
Which you cannot do on a HC or Melee PE without gimping your offense. :o
This guys got a shitload into force, personally I wouldn't have anything in force because the low tl melee weapons are gonna suck as it is, you want a mad count of melee combat to insure getting alot of crits.
I cap all stats on a Vein ripper at M-C 160. Thats speed and damage. Hell I cap a Blade of ceres at M-C 177. That leaves PLENTY of points left over for resist force. And what do you mean by crits? Is that like criticals in FFXI? I didn't think they exsisted in this game. If think it improves your shot at higher damage then you are wrong. Melee damage is random just like APU's. Other then capping damage there is nothing else you can do to change that.
Clownst0pper
19-03-04, 23:11
Melee tank's are also boring and cookie-cutter. After playing this game for, well coming up on two years for alot of us, playing those same-old setups can get kinda old
Truely understandable, but why must cookie cutter be given this negative lexis?
Personally, sure it may be fun, but a Melee PE, will never beat a melee tank.
As a fun character sure, adopt it how u wish, but after playing my brothers characters for some time now hes pissed off to africa, i can honestly say, cookie cutters really are the top bollox. He has 4, except ikari whos using a first love :confused:
All the same, for fun, Melee PE, for being an uber melee user, Melee tank o_O
K's bro-
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Someone please explain to me, why it is ever worth being a Melee PE?
The tank is a class 100% designed to be melee, without gimpage, has the resists, can run cast just as well. With the new rares, it really wont be worth it :wtf:
K's bro-
I'm sure that after the patch there will be less of a point to be Melee PE. The biggest things that a PE has over a tank though is the psi spells and adaptability. With the ability to stealth, you can dissapear during combat and change your armor around to better fit the situation. With self cast blessed deflector and self cast shelter you will get better then PPU remote cast deflector and shelter protection.
Originally posted by whifix
I cap all stats on a Vein ripper at M-C 160. Thats speed and damage. Hell I cap a Blade of ceres at M-C 177. That leaves PLENTY of points left over for resist force. And what do you mean by crits? Is that like criticals in FFXI? I didn't think they exsisted in this game. If think it improves your shot at higher damage then you are wrong. Melee damage is random just like APU's. Other then capping damage there is nothing else you can do to change that.
Oh but they do.
A tank can fully cap the devils grace and get a 50/* battle rank. A tank can also get a 54/* battle rank with the devils grace, but if you look at the stats, they will be exactly the same....
Hrmm capped weapon giving a 50 battle rank, but also going all theway up to 54 still being capped....hrmm. :eek:
Originally posted by whifix
With the ability to stealth, you can dissapear during combat and change your armor around to better fit the situation.
Argg please do not support stealth whoring, it takes the skill out of pvp...any loser can escape death. Shouldn't be in the game tbh, at least not for PE's....
On my Melee PE so far I've been able to beat all the melee tanks I've come across. If anyone doesn't think the Melee PE is viable I'd like to try and prove to them it is sometime. Just PM me and we can setup a time.
Originally posted by g0rt
Oh but they do.
A tank can fully cap the devils grace and get a 50/* battle rank. A tank can also get a 54/* battle rank with the devils grace, but if you look at the stats, they will be exactly the same....
Hrmm capped weapon giving a 50 battle rank, but also going all theway up to 54 still being capped....hrmm. :eek:
Thats because of Freq. Currently the melee weapons are bugged and do not display the correct freq. The most they will show is 30/min. The Truth is that they can go up to 90/min though. I'm sure this is what you are talking about as the missing piece of the puzzle. From dealing with melee though I can guess that I currently cap the freq on the Vein Ripper. At 177 I'm preaty sure I cap the freq on the Blade of Ceres as well. Never had a Melee Tank or a Tank for that matter so I wouldn't know about the Devils Grace.
Originally posted by whifix
Thats because of Freq. Currently the melee weapons are bugged and do not display the correct freq. The most they will show is 30/min. The Truth is that they can go up to 90/min though. I'm sure this is what you are talking about as the missing piece of the puzzle. From dealing with melee though I can guess that I currently cap the freq on the Vein Ripper. At 177 I'm preaty sure I cap the freq on the Blade of Ceres as well. Never had a Melee Tank or a Tank for that matter so I wouldn't know about the Devils Grace.
I disagree. My melee tank has about 240 melee combat and he swings his DG at the same rate as when he first hit enough str to use it
Originally posted by g0rt
I disagree. My melee tank has about 240 melee combat and he swings his DG at the same rate as when he first hit enough str to use it
Like I said. I've never had a Tank before so I wouldn't know about that. I'm only repeating what I've read here in the forums.
I'm assuming that 240 melee compared to ??? showed a rank change of 54/** vs 50/**. One thing I do know is melee is bugged and I wouldn't be surprised that even though the aiming is fixed and doesn't go up on the weapon info that it might actually be going up somewhere else. In some hidden field like the sixth skill. -(edit)- I dont mean the sixth skill goes up. I mean it might have a hidden influence that is similar to the way the sixth skill influences your rank.
DG caps freq at a little above 200 m-c so you most likely capped
freq when you reached enough str to use it considering how easy
melee is to rack up. You will need alot more m-c after patch
however. whifix is sorta right on that one tho, the displayed freq
on melee weapons is bugged.
Rade, would you consider that setup I posted a gimp? Just wondering. :)
Originally posted by Glok
Rade, would you consider that setup I posted a gimp? Just wondering. :)
I know I"m not Rade but I hope my opinion still counts :). I think in that setup you dont have enough energy resist, HLT or ATL. Also try switching the Heat resist 1 to the Basic Resist 3. Also since you can stealth I'd suggest steping away from so much POR resist since you can just throw on viper king armor to get poison resist. Try switching the armor to Cypher Helmet, Inq4 vest, Light energy belt, Inq4 pants and Heavy Duranium boots and let me know what you think.
I don't really care about the details though, and I will never make that char anyways. Rade wanted to see a non-gimped stealthing melee PE. I tried to supply one.
But if you think it's not gimped with your changes, that's cool too. :)
Try the setup i listed before. Then you'll see a ungimped melee pe that needs only 3 drugs :) Although having to take drugs is actually a gimp :(
oh and for the backbone put strength booster 3
Nah, drugs don't make a gimp. They are ingame, what are there? like 30 different drugs. KK wouldn't have put them there if we weren't meant to use them. Just reduce the drugflash ffs.
Drugs aren't the bad part, It's the random drug flashes that are. Most of the time I can pop a beast and redflash with no drug effect after they wear. However sometimes they wear and i get crazy drug flash.
Originally posted by Glok
Nah, drugs don't make a gimp. They are ingame, what are there? like 30 different drugs. KK wouldn't have put them there if we weren't meant to use them. Just reduce the drugflash ffs.
I agree, there should be a VERY VERY low chance of flashing because of one drug. Right now you can get intense flashes off only one drug thats BS.
Well glok, I would never make a setup that depends on that
many drugs. The deal with stealth is that it makes you able to
fight for a long time guerilla style. With using that many drugs
over a long time you will have insane flashes which makes the
whole concept pretty useless. I wouldnt take more than one 10
min drug on a melee stealth PE setup.
And yeah, the drugflashes should be reworked a little, cmon this
is cyberpunk, everyone should be on a drug or two. It could
become a decent cash sink and people could work as drugdealers
if some things were changed.
my heavy combat PE used only Beast and i've taken PEs and tanks down with him.
its not as effective as the 'cookie cutter' variety of PE
but its definately viable
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.