View Full Version : pvp is not a skill based, unfortunately...
yeah, i've realised it few days ago. My friend did some upgrades to his PC and indeed he got basically 3 times more fps than me (i have around 50-60 in app he got 160...). So he was so happy that i thought i have to calm down him a bit and we went to neofrag...
I used to NF with him before, and he wasn't much of a challenge to me, i usually win 90% of the times without any troubles, but now he seems to be unbeatable. I managed to win only one out of 10 duels and probably only because of NF bug...
I've never realised u can gain so big advantage due to better performance. Due to his fps he was faster, he had MUCH better aim and it seems I was lagging much more due to his fps! Basically 30% of my hits weren't registered because of his speed, and what is more annoying he was dissapearing and warping to other place once in awhile, which makes it even more annoying...
This game is starting to annoy me, really. I cannot snipe due to shitty fps, i cannot do OP wars due to shitty net code and lags, now it seems even duels are impossible for me, cause everyone with better fps will beat me to a pulp without any problems.
I've given up vehicle driving because i was crashing with 80% efficiency each time i drive to another zone.
I've given up Heavy combat because plasma bursts lagged me (the same earlier was with liberator). Basically i've tried all possible classess within this friggin game and none of them were viable because of the game performance!
Really, i guess this time i will reroll to pure tradeskiller, it's only viable choice for me it seems
to all of you wondering what kind of shitty PC i must have - i've managed to get 2 times more fps in Morrowind than NC, 3 times more fps in every pvp shooter and never ever encoutered any crashes with my PC (celeron 1.8; 512 ddr; radeon 8500 128mb; win xp)
az
Psyco Groupie
16-03-04, 12:54
what a load of codswhallop :rolleyes:
celeron :lol:
greendonkeyuk
16-03-04, 12:58
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
what a load of codswhallop :rolleyes:
celeron :lol:
cussing a guys pc is jus takin things to a whole new low man.
oh, shut up all of you!!!! ;)
celeron is cool !!!
EDIT - but seriously, do u think upgrading the cpu would make such a big difference? I'm not really sure...
hard as it may be to believe, the graphics engine in this game is mostly unaffected by the quality of your GFX card, since it's mostly using your CPU to do the calcs. yes, it's really that badly optimised. hence a celeron will run it much slower than even a similarly fast pentium.
"should" get better with the "new" engine in DoY.
Originally posted by Xylaz
oh, shut up all of you!!!! ;)
celeron is cool !!!
EDIT - but seriously, do u think upgrading the cpu would make such a big difference? I'm not really sure...
yes it would... and in NC`s case its CPU > GFX card
at least till doy comes.. then it`ll be the other way around =)
/€ damn...someone was faster :p
Dribble Joy
16-03-04, 13:12
As said in the plan file, DoY will hopefully use new DX9 goodness to load more of the gfx for NC onto the gfx card, and away from the CPU.
In the meantime, all you can do is get a better processor, and maybe some decent RAM.
Original monk
16-03-04, 13:16
i used to play beta4 on my laptop on my bed ..
average of about 3 fps, 1 fps at fights (this means that at the time you targetted someone that he is actually moved to 25 meters right or left by then :P)
and still its possible to kill people yeah :) even them o soo powerfull hybrids from the beginning got owned :P
but thats a loong time ago
like everyone i have some decent computers now :)
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
In the meantime, all you can do is get a better processor, and maybe some decent RAM.
so... 512 ddr 400 RAM is not enough for NC???
great...
Sorry to tell u this, but i built my good PvPr reputation using a touchpad and 1.2 celeron laptop with 16mb on board gfx, and 256 mb ram. I was using that for 5 months. - about 8 FPS in NF
PvP is skill based.
You can blame your computer if you like ;)
EDIT - It is MOSTLY your cpu thats letting you down. Like the rest of the forum, Im reluctant to avoid Celeron :D
Dribble Joy
16-03-04, 13:27
Originally posted by Xylaz
so... 512 ddr 400 RAM is not enough for NC???
great...
:p, didn't see that, heh.
I'm running NC on an athlon 1.4 with 512 of 1st gen ddr.
10-25 fps in NF, ph34r.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
yes it would... and in NC`s case its CPU > GFX card
at least till doy comes.. then it`ll be the other way around =)
/€ damn...someone was faster :p
Someone faster than h4xin cy. LIEZ
oh and cy i wanna dual ur pe on pluto foo
Originally posted by L0KI
Sorry to tell u this, but i built my good PvPr reputation using a touchpad and 1.2 celeron laptop with 16mb on board gfx, and 256 mb ram. I was using that for 5 months. - about 8 FPS in NF
PvP is skill based.
You can blame your computer if you like ;)
read my post again please. Try to understand it first and then reply.
metalangel
16-03-04, 13:40
Do you turn your settings down when you play NF? I do when I go to an OP war...
Also, I dunno, I'm shit at PVP, it's just because I haven't practiced enough, really. If I play UT or BF1942 I am dangerous, but PVP in NC I am just shit. But then, NC combat reminds me of the hateful combat in Gayness Ex - all this running back and forth sideways, the only way to hit in combat like that is to fire and let them run into your bullets - except, NC aiming doesn't let you do that (which I find hilarious)
Anyway, moany moan moan!!!!
With my P4 2.8GHz HT/1024MB DDR400/GeForce FX 5900 Ultra I still cannot use all GFX options turned up and 1240x1024x32bit .. grr I lag :(
To paraphrase an old thread....
skill < fps < ping < sync < FRE :(
Originally posted by Xylaz
.........I've never realised u can gain so big advantage due to better performance. Due to his fps he was faster, he had MUCH better aim and it seems I was lagging much more due to his fps! Basically 30% of my hits weren't registered because of his speed, and what is more annoying he was dissapearing and warping to other place once in awhile, which makes it even more annoying......
............I cannot snipe due to shitty fps, i cannot do OP wars due to shitty net code and lags, now it seems even duels are impossible for me, cause everyone with better fps will beat me to a pulp without any problems.
Really, i guess this time i will reroll to pure tradeskiller, it's only viable choice for me it seems
I feel your pain, man.......
I figured it out about 8 months ago, that something was seriously wrong.......
When people started to talk about NC's CPU hungry netcode, that's when it all made sence...
My current PC: 733mhz Celeron-66mhz fsb....:(
PvP is impossible for me.....
The Bright side:
I'm only a few hours away from ordering my new PC.... \o/
PS:
There's still skill involved in PvP, in the character setup, tactics and weapon/spell choices etc....
I've got a shit computer. Still i`m good at pvp.
But last night i had a ping 3 times lower than usual. Hah, big difference! Managed to hit a melee tank all the time lol.
Jesterthegreat
16-03-04, 17:13
well... i get about 30fps on LAN center PC's. i am 84 base STR. i am BARELY able to use CS in PA2. i have 188% aiming on it. i can beat capped tanks (not always of course... not all capped tanks either). this is a capped tank sitting in the same room as me, with identicle weapons, on an identicle PC, sharing an internet connection...
we had extremely similar fps etc... but i won? he is 16 STR and about 15-20 con higher than me... im stupidly slow... we had the same weapons.
i beat him.
are you saying that my skill (this isnt me bein big headed. i owuld never think of claiming to be "leet" or a "vet" or any shit like that... im no where near the best tank on the server or anything lol) had nothing to do with this?
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
well... i get about 30fps on LAN center PC's. i am 84 base STR. i am BARELY able to use CS in PA2. i have 188% aiming on it. i can beat capped tanks (not always of course... not all capped tanks either). this is a capped tank sitting in the same room as me, with identicle weapons, on an identicle PC, sharing an internet connection...
we had extremely similar fps etc... but i won? he is 16 STR and about 15-20 con higher than me... im stupidly slow... we had the same weapons.
i beat him.
are you saying that my skill (this isnt me bein big headed. i owuld never think of claiming to be "leet" or a "vet" or any shit like that... im no where near the best tank on the server or anything lol) had nothing to do with this?
/sigh
so i have to repeat it again and again - read my post please (and i mean it - read it, not only the subject of the thread, not only few random words...) AND try to understand it actually...
Basically your post has nothing to do with this thread. It's spam. You're refering to some hyphotetical question which have never been formed... so... read my post or stop spamming please.
/nothing personal, it's a general answer to all people who just constantly hitting repeat button without even reading the original post and without having the slightest idea what the thread is about.../
az
Originally posted by L0KI
Sorry to tell u this, but i built my good PvPr reputation using a touchpad and 1.2 celeron laptop with 16mb on board gfx, and 256 mb ram. I was using that for 5 months. - about 8 FPS in NF
PvP is skill based.
You can blame your computer if you like ;)
EDIT - It is MOSTLY your cpu thats letting you down. Like the rest of the forum, Im reluctant to avoid Celeron :D
I agree with you I'm still using the same computer I bought 4 years ago, and played beta 4 in and I still can own at pvp, even if everyone gets triple the fps I get ....tho At op battles I can't do much get synchroznising and stuff but I can still PK.
Originally posted by metalangel
Do you turn your settings down when you play NF? I do when I go to an OP war...
On the plus side with the settings all the way down it makes it close to impossible to see a stealther
You'd be hard pressed to find ANY shooter style, skill heavy game which isn't made severely difficult by low FPS.
Oh and if you want to see how much your GFX card affects NC performance, turn off D3D Hardware TnL, restart NC and compare your FPS to when you had it on.
Jesterthegreat.
You, sir, are not Teh Law.
Thankyou.
Bye
shodanjr_gr
16-03-04, 23:33
I dont get it. People mock at Celerons. My PC is a celeron (Celeron 1.7ghz@1.9ghz) with 512DDR and a Radeon 9800 SE (Softmoded and OCed to almost 9800 PRO) with 128 mb Ram.
I get 5600 marks in 3d Mark 2003. I can run UT2K3 with ease at the Holy Shit settings with barely any slowdowns (waiting for a chance to play ut2k4). I can run Morrowind, i can play every single game out there without encountering any problems at all.
And in NC i get about 20 fps average............
Psyco Groupie
16-03-04, 23:35
Celerons have a shockingly low cache, making them one of the slowest cpus about, defo not wroth the money, atleast durons were cheaper :o
Anyway, you've tweaked the fook outa your system cos it wasnt already quick enough ? I rest my case.
OMG.......
OFCOURSE A BADASS COMPUTER >>>>>>> ALL!!!!!!!!
Well look at quke 1, they nerfed the settings to hell and back. Walls looked like big pixels. They had "the best ones" top of the art pentium ones and had uber FPS.
Same with quake 2 and 3
CS... well ever tried to play 20 fps vs a 99 fps player.... You are sooooo dead, its soo easy to aim hs on all those lazy fucks :p
Well I cant say that NC is diffrent from any other PvP in just PvP.
To aim run and not lag like shit "computer vise" you need goood gear. So upgrade you computer and pwn the shit of your friend again :D
steweygrrr
17-03-04, 00:31
Having a higher FPS does help IMHO, but doesnt win you battles....I used to get 8fps on med detail in places like NF and opwars, the reticle was jerky and hard to line up over a target.
Now since I upgraded my CPU, RAM and I know it doesnt help MUCH my vid card, I get 90 FPS in all NF decks and 30-60 at opwars depending on where they are. And thats on the Holy Shit (or as Holy Shit as NC gets :P) settings sans veggies. I find it a lot easier to aim, but that only gives me...what...20-30% more combat effectiveness? Unfortunately PvP still relies on the following things. How fast you can run, how fast you can aim, how fast you can shoot and how hard you hit.
Psyco Groupie
17-03-04, 00:33
Originally posted by steweygrrr
Having a higher FPS does help IMHO, but doesnt win you battles....I used to get 8fps on med detail in places like NF and opwars, the reticle was jerky and hard to line up over a target.
Now since I upgraded my CPU, RAM and I know it doesnt help MUCH my vid card, I get 90 FPS in all NF decks and 30-60 at opwars depending on where they are. And thats on the Holy Shit (or as Holy Shit as NC gets :P) settings sans veggies. I find it a lot easier to aim, but that only gives me...what...20-30% more combat effectiveness? Unfortunately PvP still relies on the following things. How fast you can run, how fast you can aim, how fast you can shoot and how hard you hit.
And how many hits you can take :)
steweygrrr
17-03-04, 00:38
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
And how many hits you can take :)
Yes and how many hits you can take.
And atm apparantly, whether you or your target has a dev o_0
this game is all CPU and RAM...
good ass CPU + 1gig of some good ass ram = 190 fps standing still in plaza 38|
Originally posted by s0apy
hard as it may be to believe, the graphics engine in this game is mostly unaffected by the quality of your GFX card, since it's mostly using your CPU to do the calcs. yes, it's really that badly optimised. hence a celeron will run it much slower than even a similarly fast pentium.
"should" get better with the "new" engine in DoY.
AMD if you want to save a ton of money! Both are good cpus but being a bit of a tight wad I have switched over to amd.
It all has to do with render cycles. :o
yeah fps makes all the difference
i dont have a fast box but 90% of the time i have all graphic-options set to zero...zilch...and fog distance all the way down
it makes up for it somewhat
pisses me off that i play quake3 or something like that, it looks better, and runs with 4 times the fps of neocron :\
yeah fps for some cases is like huge... i get like 15-20 in teh wastes; 10 at op fights... cant do much... people are teleporting... i'm teleporting... studdering... and i'm running on 1280x1024x32
but lately weird shit has happend... all of a sudden my fps sky rockets to 60 and i'm like OMG I CAN MOVE!!!1111... but it only lasts for like 30 seconds before it comes crashing back down again :(
ofcourse then i go play ut2k4... 1600x1200 at 32; everythign up to teh max... and i'm averaging 30-60 fps... and thats onslaught with 20+ people blowing shit up... :eek:
i guess its true that fre > synch > fps > skill :(
btw i gots a question: does running in window vs. full screen have any noticible effects on fps?
its not the fps imo..
i get shitty FPS also but i still manage to do OP wars, PvP fights and stuff.
in my app i got around 25 - 30 FPS max ... shitty :\
learn to play with a shitty PC :D
Originally posted by Kopaka
its not the fps imo..
Spend a month salary on a new one and try it then....... it is a giant step forward belive me...
hehe im saving for a new PC :D
but its not going to well since i got other stuff to spend my money on :(
but more FPS wouldnt kill meh ...
it sucks when i get 5 - 15 FPS in OP fights, sometimes even 0 8|
angelsenior
17-03-04, 12:57
A celeron processor has less cache memory integrated in the processor in regards to any other processor.
Even a high-speed celeron could be compared to a very good car with a very low fuel reserve (ie you dont get far before you need to refuel, even with more then 200+km/h speed).
Originally posted by Invertigo
this game is all CPU and RAM...
good ass CPU + 1gig of some good ass ram = 190 fps standing still in plaza 38|
Hi,
can you tell me what video card you have?
I get average fps in neofrag, about 80-100 mostly *unless theres like a million people there*
I dont think FPS gives that much of an advantage, i was doing well with my old system *p3 400Mhz with 128Mb ram :D* now im on a celeron 2.0Ghz with 256Mb ram :( sadly i seemed to get better fps on the p3 O_o sometimes....
Supposedly the eye can only see 30FPS so if u have 50 - 60 FPS then whats the problem;) upgrade to new nvidia drivers, if ur using a nvidia.....i went from 80 FPS to about 100 FPS lying about in zones (not in the crowded areas) and im only running a gf4ti4600 + 2.8 athlon.
I used to be pretty fucking good with my tank until i started rolling 3 other classes and at the time i was using same gfx card and a 1.6 athlon @1ghz:o my fps used to top about 30 so yeah if u upgrade ur cpu u should see a massive difference.
Jesterthegreat
17-03-04, 14:01
Originally posted by alig
Supposedly the eye can only see 30FPS
i thought it was higer than that but yeah a high fps is useless (except to twitch gamers).
and btw - i am running:
AMD Athlon XP+ 2600
512 Mb RAM (or it may even be 256Mb? O_o)
GeForce 3 Ti 500
i get up to 200 fps in plaza, 60-70 in op / pvp.
i wouldnt say this game is too mem heavy... although i would agree its CPU heavy.
but yeah... GF3 and up to 200 fps :)
oh and i run in windowed 90% of the time
Keyol45743241
17-03-04, 14:06
Play APU - Point&Click skillz suffice, and you can manage your Desktop, can't you? :wtf:;)
Originally posted by Keyol45743241
Play APU - Point&Click skillz suffice, and you can manage your Desktop, can't you? :wtf:;)
drones have the same aim... :wtf:
FPS does really affect your combat.
If your frames are at 15 fps, you are definatly not as good as you would be with 30 fps.
So many ppl say: " Hey I can still kill ppl, so get skills..."
Sure, you will still be able to kill ppl, but you would be much better with more FPS.
More then 30 fps is, as already posted, not needed due to the eye. But less WILL affect your combat. Does not mean you wont be able to do something, but it will affect you.
Celeron:
Sorry, but that CPU is not good for gaming. There is no need to have a DDR 400 or something similar, as the Celeron only has 100MHz Fronsidebus and therfor the RAM will also only run at that speed. And THATS the problem.
The 100MHz will also affect your grafic card, as all the system will only run at 100MHz.
And as NC needs more CPU speed as GFX speed, the Celeron is even worse here compared to other games where there is more need to have a good grafic card.
So long,
Sobi
Keyol45743241
17-03-04, 16:03
Originally posted by deac
drones have the same aim... :wtf: Drones have line of sight attacks? Due to delay, sometimes only a few shots of a salvo hit? A drone has artificial inertia, especially crappy if compared to a high athl/agl chain & runcasting APU? A drone does about 1/5th the damage of an APU?
But I agree, finding a good hideout is a non FPS dependant skill.... ;)
steweygrrr
17-03-04, 20:18
Originally posted by Kopaka
its not the fps imo..
i get shitty FPS also but i still manage to do OP wars, PvP fights and stuff.
in my app i got around 25 - 30 FPS max ... shitty :\
learn to play with a shitty PC :D
lol unfortunately he is right. Seen him at OP wars on his PPU and he still manages to do his job (damn j00 iCe' :p !) quite well.
Originally posted by Sobi
More then 30 fps is, as already posted, not needed due to the eye. But less WILL affect your combat. Does not mean you wont be able to do something, but it will affect you.
That is pure bullshit... Just go to google and I have posted that link before on this forum. The eye can see frames far over 200.
Only thing is that you will see a smooth movment over 24 - 25 frames....
Can look for the link now =P Just to prove it
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.