View Full Version : I'd like a KK response...
...to anything :(
Why don't the Devs ever comment on our threads :(
Maybe they've just heard it all before, or as MJS mentioned (in the only post I've seen from him in months) the heat on the boards is too high these days. For my part it's the lack of official input that gets my back up o_O
I'm not looking for essays, but the odd "we're looking into that" or "we've discussed it and disagree" etc would make the whole business feel a little less like http://www.chumble.org/images/asdf.gif
They are too busy reformatting their resumes.
Jesterthegreat
15-03-04, 12:47
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
They are too busy reformatting their resumes.
ahahahahaahaha
well... i enjoyed that anyway
•Super|\|ova•
15-03-04, 13:13
Originally posted by MrChumble
...to anything :(
Why don't the Devs ever comment on our threads :(
Maybe they've just heard it all before, or as MJS mentioned (in the only post I've seen from him in months) the heat on the boards is too high these days. For my part it's the lack of official input that gets my back up o_O
I'm not looking for essays, but the odd "we're looking into that" or "we've discussed it and disagree" etc would make the whole business feel a little less like http://www.chumble.org/images/asdf.gif
I so agree on this.
Mighty Max
15-03-04, 13:20
Even if i also like to see this more:
Every post in this way activates a bunchload of spammers/flamers around here negating the result. What would be the point in constantly feeding these trolls?
Jesterthegreat
15-03-04, 13:25
i'm a troll?
i actually agree... it would e nice to get a response or two...
however bare in mind these forums are a privalege, not a right... and kk release info when they need to
Any time the devs respond to anythign the thread gets swamped with trolls, flames and disagreements.
I think the only way they could respond to any thread is if they respond to lots of threads and by doing that it means they're not working on the game.
I'd like to think nidhogg flags any worthwhile threads for their attention.
Best thing to do is to reply to any thread about the mechanics on the game as if the devs are reading with interest bevause you never know they just might be.
Most of the time, in more or less all companies, developers do not (and should not) talk to clients directly.
There is (and should be) a filter (e.g sales) between the developers and the customers.
If you don't have this filter, nothing would be done properly or even finished. Basically because what would happen is that the developers would get 100000 feature request from 10000 different customers while they are busy working on others. The developers would get a hard time distiguising among the requests, which should be prioritized and so forth. Also, just managing feature requests is a full time task itself.
I work as a developer at software company. I do have contact with clients, but under ordered fashions and with a formal request queue. However, we are not talking 10000 customers here, nor are we talking 10000 requests. What I have now is about what is recommended.
Imagine if the KK developers should start interacting with this community...
I would NOT like that to happen... really. I know what you have to do as a full time programmer when there is lot to do. Heck, sometimes you even go without lunch. Imagine then if you should squeeze in time on these forums as well. Not viable.
EDIT: Furthermore, don't think that nothing we write here doesn't get processed by KK. This is not the case, I'm sure of it. The developers don't see all our requests, that is true. They are the last line, who get what is important (according to sales or whatever group is reviewing requests).
Originally posted by phunqe
There is (and should be) a filter (e.g sales) between the developers and the customers.
....
Imagine if the KK developers should start interacting with this community...
Then they should have a filter :mad: At least someone to give some indication that KK are paying the slightest bit of attention to their customers (even if it's just to say they disagree and think they have a better solution to problem X and bug Y).
Originally posted by MrChumble
Then they should have a filter :mad: At least someone to give some indication that KK are paying the slightest bit of attention to their customers (even if it's just to say they disagree and think they have a better solution to problem X and bug Y).
I am sure they do have a filter. However, I agree that it is rather abstract to us at the moment, in the sense that we don't have a formal pipeline for our requests.
EDIT: A forum can be a sufficient pipeline, but what most people lack is the tickbox that says "ok, we've recieved your request". The "tickbox" itself doesn't have to mean "ok, we WILL look into it". It suffices that it just arrives at KK and just glanced at.
No guarantee that it will be considered, just that it has been received.
EDIT 2: By formal pipeline I don't mean Lupus for example. The pipeline through Lupus is more "friendly", "chatty" or whatever your would like to call it.
Don't get me wrong, Lupus is great and he's doing a fantastic job. Requests to Lupus is more "Hey, could you please look into this and that...".
People do want a more formal request method however, like the "tickbox" I mentioned above.
I don't know. I am used to the formal approach however... maybe too much :rolleyes:
I think Lupus would qualify as a filter... Carbonite too to some extent.
Devils Grace
15-03-04, 15:22
Originally posted by Mighty Max
Even if i also like to see this more:
Every post in this way activates a bunchload of spammers/flamers around here negating the result. What would be the point in constantly feeding these trolls?
yep just like me
tho i agree on this one
well they used to come on fairly often, they would give information, people would take it as set in stone info, and hold them to it, so i guess they dont come here as often now because all you get from this forum is hostility.
proberbly every other thread is banging on to KK about some problem or another, no wonder they stay away, they would proberbly be lynched if the community got there hand on them:eek: :p
I'd like to see them respond more, but it's really pointless. They don't want to, and you can't really trust a word they say anyway. KK is like that guy with 30 overdue creditcard bills, and trys to buy a car. It's just not gonna work.
Sheesh, I don't show my face for a week, and look at them go... :p
Btw, Thanatos' last non-patch-related post around here is 4 days old, same goes for MJS. Not that inactive if you ask me :rolleyes:
Oh, and:
Originally posted by ezza
well they used to come on fairly often, they would give information, people would take it as set in stone info, and hold them to it, so i guess they dont come here as often now because all you get from this forum is hostility.
the last post by MJS was a PR plug about Doy "features" and a lamentation of the status of the boards.
the last post by Thanatos was a news bit.
not exactly open communication.
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 16:37
I think maybe the devs should get a thicker skin. Replying once in a blue moon because of possible flames? Give me a break.
I'm not saying they should be having indepth discussions with us everyday, but their should be more communication than their is now. It doesn't even have to be direct communication.
What if the devs(or some of them) made a locked sticky for one week, with an in-depth analysis of the game and all it's aspects and what THEY think about it.
It's somewhat pointless to suggest ideas sometimes because we don't even know what they think. What do they think of pvp? Do they think it's balanced? What do they think of each class and the roles? How do they think it should be? Do they see any major problems? What do they think of the faction sytem? Of ops? Of the economy? Of the LE? Of PvM? Of the wastelands? Of Soul light? etc...
You could have maybe 3 devs write all their thoughts and feelings(please, nothing vague) in a thread and sticky it. Just so we know where they stand. If we play the game, and they are in charge of designing it or adding content. Shouldn't we know what they think, just like they know what we think?
Or how about a once a week thread that is a "talk to a dev" thread about 1 topic. The topic could change per week. It could be a sticky. And i'm sure the mods can enforce(onoz) the no flaming policy strictly on this one thread.
Or maybe a "ask a dev a question" thread, where each person can ask 1 question. No repeats, no flaming, and no trolling. And then the dev can answer all of them and then the thread can be be locked or something I dunno.
These are my opinions. "onoz, i might be flamed" isn't really a good excuse for the poor communication. Sure their is SOME communication, but not enough IMO. And no i'm not asking to have dinner with the devs and play tennis with them. Just a little more.
Let's not forget, just like some people would flame a KK member any chance they get, their are those that worship the ground a KK member walks on whenever they post. Let's not exaggerate and say that it's all flames. Trust me, I've seen this in other boards where the developers respond. You got flamers, yes, and you also got the fanboys group.
So ;)
The other thing is ... MJS puts a post into a thread ... and watch that thread grow ... on non related stuff ...
Its like he gives life and all need it to live .....
Devs / Mods and MJS read and are aware of what goes on ... If they spend all day every day reading these posts , on all forums, and then replying ... Besides the flamming, and arguments ... they not gonna do anything more for the game.....
Mebbe you create a poll ...
Feed back from Devs or
Get back to work
the devs are paid to work on the game not come here to get flamed, they dont get paid to take abuse regardless of what some people on this board think.
andreally they dont even have to post here, they dont even have to supply this forum for us all to post, but they do so errr be thankful for what you got and be glad when MJS pops his head in on the forum(the last thread i saw him post in everyone turned into afanboi on that thread :lol: )
This is exactly what i wanted, I mean the ideas that people come up with on these forums are generally worth looking into but within two days they are dust on page 2, and then 3 and then 4 and then they are gone. Never to be remembered. But perhaps the devs could just say, "sounds intresting, I'll include this in the next KK meeting" or summat like that. Just to make us feel like our opinions are worth something, rather than trying to make us seem like little 0's and 1's that provide KK with money...
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 16:52
Originally posted by Crest
Mebbe you create a poll ...
Feed back from Devs or
Get back to work
A little more feedback means they can't work?
Originally posted by ezza
the devs are paid to work on the game
They also make DESIGN decisions which affect their customers. So it makes sense to know what the customers are thinking and try design decisions to enhance the enjoyment of as many customers as possible so that they keep playing and the devs continue with a successful mmorpg.
Originally posted by ezza
andreally they dont even have to post here, they dont even have to supply this forum for us all to post,
Yea, they don't even have care what we think. Hell, they could make the most horrible decisions ever and not give a shit about feedback. And it doesn't matter if their mmorpg bombs as a result, because hey, they could do whatever they want right?
lol
Originally posted by Saza
Just to make us feel like our opinions are worth something, rather than trying to make us seem like little 0's and 1's that provide KK with money...
Yep.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Yea, they don't even have care what we think. Hell, they could make the most horrible decisions ever and not give a shit about feedback. And it doesn't matter if their mmorpg bombs as a result, because hey, they could do whatever they want right?
lol
Yep. sure, why not, they made a number of desicions that the community didnt ask for some good some bad.
look what happens when the community does get its way.
take monks, they could of balanced hybrids, nope people wernt happy with that so they made 2 more classes, are they balanced yet? nope, theres many things, there are other games where they dont have an offical forum, end of the day it is there game and they will make changes they see hit.
they do listen to us also because there are many player suggested things that have happened.
personally if i was a KK member i wouldnt touch this forum with rather long stick
Originally posted by ezza
look what happens when the community does get its way.
To go back to my original point, I'm not asking for KK to come here and kiss our ass and worship us. I just want to know what they think now and then, perhaps hear some rational for their decisions. If they disagree with an idea then we can move on and suggest something else instead of endless re-hashing of old ideas.
Errr..did anyone miss the feedback then??
Didn't new items find their way into the game? Epics? Content?
It may not be enuff for you lot but the stuff I've seen added in the last 18 months is generally what the comunity asked for? You get dev feedback from every patch.
This is an MMO, nothing is set in stone, so theres no real practical use in discussing how the game will evolve in the future...
Leave the devs where they are IMO, if u want feedback there's always
Jan "Callash" Doerrenhaus
Content Development & Storyline Coordination
REAKKTOR.COM
A division of Schwiezer Systems Ltd.
http://neocron.jafc.de/images/sendpm.gif (http://neocron.jafc.de/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=15581)
Jesterthegreat
15-03-04, 17:06
Originally posted by KuifJe
Content?
*gigles*
you said content in a neocron forum!
thats hilarious!
:lol:
theres only so long i can do epics (2 hours per epic? a game 1 and a half years onto retail and it has what... 24 hours content?) and those dynamic event things that there was a sticky to sign up for seem to have disapearred... O_o
Jesterthegreat
15-03-04, 17:06
Originally posted by KuifJe
Content?
*gigles*
you said content in a neocron forum!
thats hilarious!
:lol:
theres only so long i can do epics (2 hours per epic? a game 1 and a half years onto retail and it has what... 24 hours content?) and those dynamic event things that there was a sticky to sign up for seem to have disapearred... O_o
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 17:10
Originally posted by MrChumble
To go back to my original point, I'm not asking for KK to come here and kiss our ass and worship us. I just want to know what they think now and then, perhaps hear some rational for their decisions. If they disagree with an idea then we can move on and suggest something else instead of endless re-hashing of old ideas.
Yup.
Originally posted by ezza
they do listen to us also because there are many player suggested things that have happened.
I never said they didn't.
Originally posted by ezza
take monks, they could of balanced hybrids, nope people wernt happy with that so they made 2 more classes, are they balanced yet? nope,
People weren't happy for a reason. It's not one sided. The hybrid problem was left a problem for FAR too long. FAR FAR too long. When enough aggravation and frustration builds up, it changes from "this is kind of overpowered. Can you tweak it?" to "omfg just destroy it already".
And I don't recall people asking for 2 more classes, only for hybrids being fixed.
IIRC, pure monks was KK's idea. And if you want to blame pure monks for not being balance, well look at who implemented them.
You want to shift blame to one side only? lol come on now
Originally posted by ezza
nope, theres many things, there are other games where they dont have an offical forum,
And their are many games with cool features that aren't in NC. So? This is about NC and KK, not about other game and what they do or do not have.
Originally posted by ezza
end of the day it is there game and they will make changes they see hit.
And the customers can give feedback. Obviously listening to customer feedback is a good move.
And forums are a means of doing that.
Every time a dev or GM makes a post, it tends to immediately send the thread OT. You get people asking said dev about completely unrelated issues, or Danae posts and the thread is filled with 'sex @ Danae', or one of the GMs posts and the 'do you remember when...?' posts follow. If MJS posted here saying why he doesn't post much, I guarantee you it will be followed by people asking him to justify delaying the DoY preorder. If CoDi posts about fixing a bug, he'll be swamped with people asking when is the next patch, when will this bug be fixed, etc.
If the devs posted a LOT, like you find on mod forums for HL, and others, then there wouldn't be so many problems IMO, but then, if they posted a lot then they wouldn't get much work done.
I have to say, it takes max 1 minute for them to write :
"That´s not such a bad idea, we´ll look into it"
or
"Sorry dude, that´s just not what we´re looking for"
feedback, as simple as that..
would just make my day.
Originally posted by Scikar
Every time a dev or GM makes a post, it tends to immediately send the thread OT. You get people asking said dev about completely unrelated issues, or Danae posts and the thread is filled with 'sex @ Danae', or one of the GMs posts and the 'do you remember when...?' posts follow. If MJS posted here saying why he doesn't post much, I guarantee you it will be followed by people asking him to justify delaying the DoY preorder. If CoDi posts about fixing a bug, he'll be swamped with people asking when is the next patch, when will this bug be fixed, etc.
If the devs posted a LOT, like you find on mod forums for HL, and others, then there wouldn't be so many problems IMO, but then, if they posted a lot then they wouldn't get much work done.
if they wrote just simple small comments in a thread, then people did HAVE to go OT on a thread.
A post saying THEIR comment on the matter would mean that people didn´t have to take questions and inquiries INTO that specific thread to get attention.
maybe they already read your posts and even reply to some of them.... as there player chars/forum names.
even if they dont i'm sure some of them do read the forums.
PS: we are all just numbers in our life :p
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 17:17
Originally posted by Scikar
Every time a dev or GM makes a post, it tends to immediately send the thread OT. You get people asking said dev about completely unrelated issues, or Danae posts and the thread is filled with 'sex @ Danae', or one of the GMs posts and the 'do you remember when...?' posts follow. If MJS posted here saying why he doesn't post much, I guarantee you it will be followed by people asking him to justify delaying the DoY preorder. If CoDi posts about fixing a bug, he'll be swamped with people asking when is the next patch, when will this bug be fixed, etc.
What about my idea of a controlled thread where spam/flames/trolling is quickly edited out? That thread would be for dev/comm comunication.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What about my idea of a controlled thread where spam/flames/trolling is quickly edited out? That thread would be for dev/comm comunication.
if that would mean that we get input from those that actually make the game, and knows whats going on with it.
then i am 199 % on for it to happen.
KK needs to hire a PR director that can focus on making the community happy. This person should be a bigger forum whore than ShadowDancer/Scikar/Naimex combined.
Even if they don't know if a new idea is possible, simply posting and saying "Just wanted to let you know that a KK paid employee has seen your idea and we'll consider it" would go a long way. Having someone that could have posted last week or even yesterday to say "Hey negotiations on the price of BDoY are running much longer than expected. If we don't get this settled tonight the pre-order date might be delayed a bit" would help to make the customers happy. It wouldn't be 100%, you'll still have flamers and trolls, but at least the paying customers wouldn't feel like they were being lied to and cheated out of their money.
KK we don't expect you to work miracles, just to be honest with us.
me = forum whore ??
Total Posts: 8500 (19.00 posts per day)
not even close to the winner :p
Originally posted by Myrlin
I picked the last 3 people to post in this thread with post counts greater than 1000. You should be honored I picked you :P
:D
Well thank you then :)
that´ll be 10 $ :p :p
I picked the last 3 people to post in this thread with post counts greater than 1000. You should be honored I picked you :P
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What about my idea of a controlled thread where spam/flames/trolling is quickly edited out? That thread would be for dev/comm comunication.
How about a "moderated" thread. You submit a comment and a mod has to click approve for it to show up. Lots of news groups work this way to keep flamers and trolls at bay. It might mean more work for a mod, but they are volunteers and if it means we'll get more responses from KK then I'm sure lots of people would volunteer.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post. Post faster people.
Try here: http://neocron.jafc.de/memberlist.php?s=&what=topposters&perpage=20 :p
Unfortunately that still counts me in, since one of those is inactive on the forums, two are one person, one is banned, and another is a mod. :p
Though as Cylon rightly says, post count means pretty much nothing.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
*gigles*
you said content in a neocron forum!
thats hilarious!
:lol:
theres only so long i can do epics (2 hours per epic? a game 1 and a half years onto retail and it has what... 24 hours content?) and those dynamic event things that there was a sticky to sign up for seem to have disapearred... O_o
Still, a lot has changed in 18 months if u keep in mind they only got 2 coders working on the game.
And tbh, content comes from players as well. Who's stopping anyone from organising things? Á MMO is based on the game itself as well as the creativity of the community.
Originally posted by KuifJe
Still, a lot has changed in 18 months if u keep in mind they only got 2 coders working on the game.
And tbh, content comes from players as well. Who's stopping anyone from organising things? Á MMO is based on the game itself as well as the creativity of the community.
2 ???
I always thought there was 4..
Codi, Lupus and 2 unknown with no forum interaction whatsoever
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 17:45
Originally posted by Myrlin
How about a "moderated" thread. You submit a comment and a mod has to click approve for it to show up. Lots of news groups work this way to keep flamers and trolls at bay. It might mean more work for a mod, but they are volunteers and if it means we'll get more responses from KK then I'm sure lots of people would volunteer.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post. Post faster people.
That's exactly the thing I was looking for.
And to keep it realistic. Their should be a length requirement to your post.
Like you can't just say "i want dev to have x-ray mod, kuz"
You have to write an in-depth post, without flames. And semi-legible writing. :p
Lupus isn't a coder. He's a volunteer!!!111111111oneone
hmm..read somewhere it was 2 and a part timer or something o_O
Ah well, still a bit understaffed IMO
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Lupus isn't a coder. He's a volunteer!!!111111111oneone
I thought they hired lupus? if not then I can't say I have respect for anyone at KK anymore :(
Shadow Dancer
15-03-04, 17:51
Originally posted by Mattimeo
I thought they hired lupus? if not then I can't say I have respect for anyone at KK anymore :(
Nope he's volunteer.
You might be confusing him with Callash. SexLash was also a volunteer, but then he got hired.
:p
It's stuff like this (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94034) that the devs should be passing some sort of comment on :rolleyes:
"At most it takes 1 minute..."
O_o
Okay, lemma lay my view down.
It often takes me average 2 hours to effing READ everything on this forum every half-day; I read in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon, and sometimes at night.
It's the forum is why I'm rarely on Neocron, not my college, not my homework, and certainly why I'm not teh sex :(
Though, I do love reading the forums a lot. :D
It's still a pain in the ass to read imho. Today I couldn't read almost jack because of difficulties in my day.
Even if this stuff can get filtered to devs to look over, they probably spend a shitload of time anyway reading. I think it'd take away from their coding more if they responded.
So let's put it this way: They're probably checking into issues brought up on the forum, but that doesn't mean we have to know about it. It should be a given that we know they're working on it. :)
•Super|\|ova•
16-03-04, 06:12
Originally posted by Kenjuten
"At most it takes 1 minute..."
O_o
Okay, lemma lay my view down.
It often takes me average 2 hours to effing READ everything on this forum every half-day; I read in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon, and sometimes at night.
It's the forum is why I'm rarely on Neocron, not my college, not my homework, and certainly why I'm not teh sex :(
Though, I do love reading the forums a lot. :D
It's still a pain in the ass to read imho. Today I couldn't read almost jack because of difficulties in my day.
Even if this stuff can get filtered to devs to look over, they probably spend a shitload of time anyway reading. I think it'd take away from their coding more if they responded.
So let's put it this way: They're probably checking into issues brought up on the forum, but that doesn't mean we have to know about it. It should be a given that we know they're working on it. :)
Mods don't code. Their only job is to moderate the forums ;)
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