View Full Version : The Grey Album - Discuss!
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 15:32
Ok some dude called 'DJ Danger Mouse' has taken Jay-Z 'Black' album and the Beatles 'White' Album and mashed em together and everyoen seems tobe loving it .... the NME of all people gave it 10/10 ...
The site can be found here (www.greytuesday.org) (down bottom for links, i used google tho)
Anyway .. EMI are really pissed off and getting people who host it chucked off their hosts and stuff ...
as for the tracks ... what a great example of the lack of skill DJ's have and how they ruin good music (the beatles)
anyway, thats my opinion ... i'd love to see what people who actually like jay-z think cos its certainly not remotely enjoyable for me
meh :rolleyes:
Putting such highly different music together, and only having samples to do so, is just shit. Plain and simple shit.
Word on the street is DJ Spooky is gonna mix JayZ's Black Album with Metallica's Black Album... I heard a brief sample. SHIT.
Let collaborations be between actual artists who get together and make something new, not this mash-shit-together-music shit.
Originally posted by Pwnage
Putting such highly different music together, and only having samples to do so, is just shit. Plain and simple shit.
hm, this could be a good discussion :p
In Belgium we have "2 many djs". They play mash-up and I think they're pretty good at it. They had smells like teen spirit with daft punk and some other song.
I don't really think of it as high-quality music (it ain't crap, but they're not David Bowie either). It's just party music and people love freaking out on their music, which I applaud :)
so it's not THAT shit is it
take that link down i think PG.. a lot of people have got in shit for that. And i have it on my computer and i think its fucking awesome. im not interested in the legal side, the DJ has made an incredible mix.. Dangermouse's version of encore is better than the original imo.
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
Ok some dude called 'DJ Danger Mouse' has taken Jay-Z 'Black' album and the Beatles 'White' Album and mashed em together and everyoen seems tobe loving it .... the NME of all people gave it 10/10 ...
The site can be found here (www.greytuesday.org) (down bottom for links, i used google tho)
Anyway .. EMI are really pissed off and getting people who host it chucked off their hosts and stuff ...
as for the tracks ... what a great example of the lack of skill DJ's have and how they ruin good music (the beatles)
anyway, thats my opinion ... i'd love to see what people who actually like jay-z think cos its certainly not remotely enjoyable for me
meh :rolleyes:
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
EDIT
I do, however, feel that a blend of Metallica's "Black" album, and Beatles "White" album would have been more humerous.
Enter Sandman meets Back in the U.S.S.R :)
Originally posted by L0KI
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
EDIT
I do, however, feel that a blend of Metallica's "Black" album, and Beatles "White" album would have been more humerous.
Enter Sandman meets Back in the U.S.S.R :)
i think you havent heard the album then. Dj Dangermouse deserves to be called a musician. The decks and a computer are being used as an instrument. Dangermouse hasnt just mixed together each track, hes taken samples and put them together to get new songs and played Jay Zs voice on top. Listen to the album because it is an excellent piece of music.
Mosts DJs arent musicians, this guy is. Hes produced music and it is art... in fact its better than any solo artists could do. DJs have the chance to be a new type of musician.. a second level musician. Thats what producers are really....
Originally posted by P4mp3rk3
hm, this could be a good discussion :p
In Belgium we have "2 many djs". They play mash-up and I think they're pretty good at it. They had smells like teen spirit with daft punk and some other song.
I don't really think of it as high-quality music (it ain't crap, but they're not David Bowie either). It's just party music and people love freaking out on their music, which I applaud :)
so it's not THAT shit is it
K, it's party music. Fine. I can enjoy a mash-up my self. But I couldn't sit there and listen to a mash-up CD because, well it sux. It's not music music.
ZoneVortex
10-03-04, 16:58
Originally posted by L0KI
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
Errrrrrr have you ever tried spinning records and mixing songs? it's hard enough to learn the equipment, and it's even harder to make a mix sound good
i know where you're coming from...i've played piano for 9 years and bass guitar for 4 or 5, but i've also tried some DJ stuff and it's really not that easy....
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 17:07
DJ's use technology to manipulate other peoples music ... to me thats wrong, if not plagerism (sp?) even if they do have 'permission'
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
DJ's use technology to manipulate other peoples music ... to me thats wrong, if not plagerism (sp?) even if they do have 'permission'
A lot of the DJs I go to see are playing a great deal of their own music, or their own labels music at least (normally unreleased stuff). If you follow drum & bass you will see that it's mainly producers that are being booked as the headline acts and not pure djs.
There is some art to DJing, you can be very creative with the decks, the mixer and how you use them. Some degree of musical know-how is needed if you wish to mix tunes (not songs.. songs are for singing) in key.
@LOKI - I have spent 6 years of my life learning to play a musical instrument, and 3 years now of quite heavy practice using my decks and I can tell you now there is still a lot more for me to learn about mixing and making it sound good - it is nowhere near as simple as 'spinning a few tunes', it takes years of practice and dedication to be any good at it.
I am actually a trained DJ.
Along with playing guitar, i make electronica tracks to accompany them, that i completely write and create myself.
Stealing other peoples hardwork and mixing it with a computer simply takes the piss. I bet he uses Rave-Ejay :lol:
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
DJ's use technology to manipulate other peoples music ... to me thats wrong, if not plagerism (sp?) even if they do have 'permission'
couldnt agree more.
Oh and btw, i listened to 3 of the tracks today.
ZoneVortex
11-03-04, 00:44
i see nothing wrong with it...it's just another form of the art
if an artist gives a DJ permission to remix their original work there's NOTHING wrong with that
besides techno is way better than any other kind of music that exists, especially if you're on drugs
remixing a song is like admitting you were wrong the first time round, remixing someone elses song is just plain wrong
*pukes*
i wouldnt say that DJ's arent musicians, but a DJ who only does remixes...well...
On a side note, LTJ bukem - drum n bass - yummy =-D
Originally posted by L0KI
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
EDIT
I do, however, feel that a blend of Metallica's "Black" album, and Beatles "White" album would have been more humerous.
Enter Sandman meets Back in the U.S.S.R :)
Theres a difference between DJ's who do shit like that with samples or your average hip hop producer (bleh :o ) and real prducers such as Sasha or BT who have actual chord progressions in songs and know how to play instruments. I appluad them and think they do great work, btu as for your average mix and match DJ its just shite.
Originally posted by L0KI
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
You probably never have seen a "musician dj" at work, using three decks and maybe an added synthesizer to create a completely new, unexpected sound.
Someone pressing "play" on a machine can't be called a musician, that's where I agree. :)
Psyco Groupie
11-03-04, 02:23
I showed my 'arty' flatmate one of the tracks at random and he went to his room for 40 mins and came back with an mp3 almost exactly the same .. he used like 4 audio layers and a few basic filters .. :rolleyes:
There are some people who play their own music, thats alot more respectable than this imo
NS_CHROME54
11-03-04, 02:27
god i wanna kill JZ for ripping off metallica's "black album" thing... even tho it isn't even the albums official name, it's still known to EVERYONE as the black album.
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
I showed my 'arty' flatmate one of the tracks at random and he went to his room for 40 mins and came back with an mp3 almost exactly the same .. he used like 4 audio layers and a few basic filters .. :rolleyes:
There are some people who play their own music, thats alot more respectable than this imo
omg fang we're agreeing with PG o_O if we're all agreeing then it's gotta be serious shit.
Psyco Groupie
11-03-04, 02:33
hehe opti :D
I guess we have some things in common, shame you cant own as much as me tho J/k :lol:
OMG.
Those remixes suck big time :D
If you want to listen to interesting music, get your hands on tracks like "Queen of Japan - I was made for lovin you" :)
oops, forgot to mention another pair of DJs who kick ass (and do all their own stuff), Royksopp, i challenge anyone to not call that music..
Originally posted by L0KI
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
EDIT
I do, however, feel that a blend of Metallica's "Black" album, and Beatles "White" album would have been more humerous.
Enter Sandman meets Back in the U.S.S.R :)
actually depends how much of a DJ you are. if you are a good DJ you can CREATE music. me and my brother DJ a bit in Statesborro , GA ; a college town near me, and we dont just mix music, because thats not really DJing to us, thats Mixxing... just plain Mixxing because thats all you are doing. DJing to us is making your own music. I've remix'd alot of songs, but not by taking the song and just putting parts of the song in other parts of the song, thats also mixxing because its just mixxing the song up.
we use syntheziers( cant spell ) and lots of diff stuff. and because i also play guitar i can do stuff w/ that. but anyway, check out some programs called Orion Pro and Orion Platinum. its great for creating beats, and rythms, and jus pretty nice and can be used like a piano, which i also play.
Originally posted by der Ed
You probably never have seen a "musician dj" at work, using three decks and maybe an added synthesizer to create a completely new, unexpected sound.
Someone pressing "play" on a machine can't be called a musician, that's where I agree. :)
exactly ;] my brother and i made our DJ stand, and its fuckin huge O_o its at least... 14ft long. in his apartment the bottom floor has a small little party area and he has it setup there most of the time, and he made himself a small lil mixxing table in the trunk of his car so he can pull up in a party and start ;P
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
god i wanna kill JZ for ripping off metallica's "black album" thing... even tho it isn't even the albums official name, it's still known to EVERYONE as the black album.
Yeah, because the Kings-of-Cuntishness weren't "ripping off" the Beatles.....
The ghosts of John Lennon and George Harrison will come back and haunt whoever made this album.
Originally posted by L0KI
Once again, agreed.
DJ's cannot be called musician's, and fair enough, they produce songs, but they certainly dont produce music - or more importantly, art.
Spend years learning to play a musical instrument, or 5 maybe, then you can call yourself a musician. Spinning records just doesnt cut it :D
Argh, so you think being a good DJ doesn't take as long as 5 years....bah..
Check out Roni Size or Aphex twin...you might not think of it as art, but it's just another form of it.
My grandparents were like "omg beatles, argh, evil, must listen to bach"...but now beatles and bach are BOTH considered art.
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
god i wanna kill JZ for ripping off metallica's "black album" thing... even tho it isn't even the albums official name, it's still known to EVERYONE as the black album.
Listen up fascist, if the name isnt taken then whys it an issue? i have 10 times the respect for Jay that i do for metallica.. i may enjoy their tunes but they are moany old men who fucked up napster for publicity whereas Jay endorsed a construction set SPECIFICALLY for djs to make remixes.. he makes no money from it, hes just helping the scene (not saying its altruistic.. but its better than metallicunts)
And i think a lot of you are mistaking clubs DJs who make a playlist and genuine DJs/Producers who take a piece of music and create something completely different from it. Dangermouse is a talented guy and PG while your friend maybe can emulate he didnt create.
Some DJ's can certainly be classified as musicians. Not every techno song is a giant cut and paste job with monotonous sounds and instruments. There's a rare few out there that create some truly awesome and unique pieces of work. Martin Bennet and some of Juno Reactor's songs being a good example of such. Not to mention all the great techno influenced Japanese music often found in many games today.
There's no denying that there's a lot of shitty techno/rap songs out there that feature lame renditions of songs that are ten seconds long, and then put on a repetitive loop for ten minutes.
the brown album > the grey album
D.J. Dreek
12-03-04, 01:23
I used to hear runners have this debate outside my apartment all the time growing up. Musicians vs Engineers. It definately depends on the D.J. Some really are wonderful musicians with just unsual instruments, others are more technical mixers, but even that is a great art in and of itself.
In the end its about the groove. If it gets you bouncing I think it is worthy of being called art. Whether or not a D.J. should be worshipped for what they do? I don't think any artist should.
We're just here to take you on a ride. Worship the trip not the bus driver.
yeah best track is 99 Problems. For the people who put down a DJ for mixing these 2 together have no respect for a DJ. I happen to spin and find it very fun and exciting to be able to take music that might haven never been played together and do it, its a art form and takes much prac to mix good.
as someone with no more than a passing interest in both jay-Z and the beatles (was always more of a Stones man) i think this is pretty damn good album and have been doing my best to circulate it
99 Problems puts a big ol' smile on my face
NS_CHROME54
12-03-04, 02:15
Originally posted by Rieper
Listen up fascist, if the name isnt taken then whys it an issue? i have 10 times the respect for Jay that i do for metallica.. i may enjoy their tunes but they are moany old men who fucked up napster for publicity whereas Jay endorsed a construction set SPECIFICALLY for djs to make remixes.. he makes no money from it, hes just helping the scene (not saying its altruistic.. but its better than metallicunts)
And i think a lot of you are mistaking clubs DJs who make a playlist and genuine DJs/Producers who take a piece of music and create something completely different from it. Dangermouse is a talented guy and PG while your friend maybe can emulate he didnt create.
hey if you're going to quote me, at least say something that relates to what i was talking about. the fans were the first ones to start calling it "the black album".
Originally posted by NS_CHROME54
hey if you're going to quote me, at least say something that relates to what i was talking about. the fans were the first ones to start calling it "the black album".
yeah great, i forgot about the rules setting out responses containing quotes. What stopped Jay calling it the black album? nothing. You think he was inspired by a group of ageing rockers clinging to the former glory of a sold out metal band? Metallica have a couple of good tunes but are far overrated. With the exception of The Blueprint part 2 Jay has been creating consistently awesome hip hop and has inspired a generation of artists.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040312/325/eofbg.html
Friday March 12, 11:48 PM
Rash of remixes a "Grey" issue in U.S
By Kester Alleyne-Morris
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Illegal and hugely popular remixes of hip hop legend Jay-Z's work have put the genre at the centre of a murky battle over U.S. copyright law, experts say.
In recent months, last year's "The Black Album" by Jay-Z has prompted a slew of unauthorised remixes, meshing the rap with the music of the Beatles, Metallica and Kenny G.
The remixes, described by their creators as "experiments" and acts of "civil disobedience," have drawn the ire of the music industry who say their copyright's have been infringed.
At the centre of the battle between the established music business and deejays using authorised "samples" of music to create their work is "The Grey Album" -- an innovative mix of Jay-Z's "Black Album" with the fab four's "White Album."
The mix prompted EMI to secure a cease and desist order against the man behind "The Grey Album," a little-known deejay called Danger Mouse.
But if EMI was hoping to squash distribution of the few thousand copies of "The Grey Album" in circulation, its actions instead made the recording the surprise hit of the year.
Owners of myriad file sharing sites recently held "Grey Tuesday," when more than 100,000 people downloaded the illegal album.
"To the extent that these (remixes) are recognisable songs or music, it is unquestionably copyright infringement," said Randy Lipsitz, a partner and intellectual property lawyer at New York-based law firm Kramer Levin, on Friday.
But with many of the remixes featuring tiny snippets and heavily reworked samples from other albums, it's hard to link the music to its forbearers.
Sampling advocates maintain they should be allowed use clips of music to make new art because the law allows for use of copyrighted material for criticism, parody and certain other uses like education -- called "fair use."
But not everybody agrees.
"The 'fair use' expression has been thrown around a great deal to justify behaviour that courts have frowned on," said Judith Saffer, vice-president of the American Intellectual Property Law Association.
Producer Brian Burton, aka Danger Mouse, said, "every lick and snare and drum" backing Jay-Z's lyrics on his remix album was drawn from the Beatles but many listeners would hardly be able to tell where Jay-Z begins and the Beatles end.
"If it's not recognisable, who cares," said Lipsitz
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