View Full Version : Change how mc5 chips are given.
IF YOU VOTE NO AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
Alright, we all know that MC5 was a facility set up by the City Admin and its supporters to brainwash rabble rousers and wasteland trash into supporting Reza.
All nicities aside, its a nothing more than a Citizen Maker 3000.
My question is this... Why should pro-city clans raid MC5 to get technology which their own faction put forward? Doesn't that completely negate the entire idea behind MC5?
I mean its like "Hey, our factions made the place... Lets go kill all our own dudes and get their uber loot".
Does that make any sense? Any sense at all?
No.
My suggestion is this: Pro City members can earn *A* MC5 chip through a run or tasking akin to an epic, only longer. Not harder (because there's no way to really make it harder :wtf: ), just more time consuming.
This would do two things.
1.) Make MC5 make more RP sense in the world.
2.) Free up MC5 so the anti-city folk can raid it to get parts.
If you vote yes, please rate this 5 stars.
If you vote no, please defend your point seeing as I'll defend mine.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 08:27
Mmm I like the idea alot. Anything that adds more RP sense or value to the game.
2 things however.
Either........
1.The run needs to be very very hard. Because people might just switch to city to do the run, if it's not as mind numbingly boring or frustrating as mc5. It shouldn't be AS hard however. I believe nothing should be as boring or mindless as mc5.
2.DOY should have it's own little version with it's own unique chips that anti-city could get via a run and pro-city has to raid blah blah blah blah parts blah.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
1.The run needs to be very very hard. Because people might just switch to city to do the run, if it's not as mind numbingly boring or frustrating as mc5. It shouldn't be AS hard however. I believe nothing should be as boring or mindless as mc5.
Yeah, I envision a long tedious run. Not a quick lil spend and hour get a MC5 chip.
2.DOY should have it's own little version with it's own unique chips that anti-city could get via a run and pro-city has to raid blah blah blah blah parts blah.
Would make it more interesting.
:)
Originally posted by Marx
IF YOU VOTE NO AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
that has to be the single funniest thign I have EVER seen.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 08:39
Originally posted by Marx
Yeah, I envision a long tedious run.
Doesn't necassarily have to be tedious.
Imagine super missions that have an infestation of DOY bots instead of aggie missions. And you have to kill 25. And that's just the first part of the mission. Or something like that.
I dunno, that sounds kinda fun to me. :D
Or killing end cave bosses as well. etc...........
Well, to me... most of the epics were tedious...
So anything akin to the epic and more grandiose would be more...uh... Tedious.
:D
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 09:06
Originally posted by Marx
Well, to me... most of the epics were tedious...
So anything akin to the epic and more grandiose would be more...uh... Tedious.
:D
hrmm.
You're right. Actually, some of the epics were fun for me because of the story. But I guess it could get old after a while.
I did HATETHEAHTHEATHEHTAE the anti city epic because of
1.Stupid Gr rules. "Hi can you open up reagents? No? Damn i'm hostile to FA, let me walk from god knows where to reagents".
2.It just had a lame story to it and some of the stuff was just an excuse to do more running around. Like "uhh I forgot to tell you, to kill 1 tangent and 1 cityadmin runner, hyuk hyuk hyuk". :rolleyes:
I did like the quest to kill the Y replicant. But that's because it was exciting. Why? Because I had no one to ppu me.....
Hrmm. Maybe make new challenging mobs with anti-heal hits and psi damage that bypasses shelter...........
:eek:
yar give the anti-fact a run too and then they all have opposite MC5 like places for their enemies to go raid instead of doign a run... thtas good idea...
erm sd... those white thingies are multiplying again... wtf r those things anyway...
It doesn't make sense RP-wise, but if you make having pro-city Factions able to get an MC5 chip, then anyone can just change Factions, do the run, and then go back anti-city.
People on mutli-character servers like Saturn could do this with all four characters getting 4 different MC5 chips..
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
It doesn't make sense RP-wise, but if you make having pro-city Factions able to get an MC5 chip, then anyone can just change Factions, do the run, and then go back anti-city.
People on mutli-character servers like Saturn could do this with all four characters getting 4 different MC5 chips..
Well it reinforces the fact that factions are borked now doesn't it.
;)
While that is true - I think while some would do that, others would use mc5 since it would lack invaders.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 09:27
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
It doesn't make sense RP-wise,
how so?
I worded it wrong. I meant to say that the current way is not true in the sense of RP, but if you make it like Marx said, even though it makes more RP sense, you can take advantage of it too easily and MC5 chips will not be rare anymore.
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 09:34
Didn't you post a similar thread b4 Marx?
And I do say NO.
1. Most ppl will just go Pro-city to do the run, even if it is very hard it is prolly easier than camping MC5 for 4-5 hours and getting random parts to split with a number of other ppl.
2. It would really hurt those individuals that would want to get parts or already have parts...it would take forever to try and trade MC5 parts if at least half the ppl getting MC5's just do the run and get the full chip.
3. Imo ur logic is flawed. MC5 may have been setup by CA but they for sure do not claim to run it. They try to claim they are a squeaky clean government, so they sure as hell aren't going to admit to having a brainwashing facility. So imo and CA's would be that MC5 is not affiliated with ne faction, therefore, it doesn't matter who kills the guards. You can't loose symp for CA if CA claims they have no ties to MC5, can you?
A better solution is another MC5 on the opposite side of the map like maybe west of Reagents in the swamps. I can't imagine if there were 1000+ ppl on the server at a time how clustered that one room would beo_O
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
I worded it wrong. I meant to say that the current way is not true in the sense of RP, but if you make it like Marx said, even though it makes more RP sense, you can take advantage of it too easily and MC5 chips will not be rare anymore.
What would need to be done is make it one run for pro-city. figure one giant *e
:D
So a person couldn't hop a faction and get another, etc.
Also, if you made it so it required rank 60ish instead of 20/25/30/etc. you'd also possibly see less of the whoring since alot of people really lack the motivation to get their alts up that high if they have a favorite main... as most do.
You could also arguably change the faction sympathys with this too... Say you need X amount...
I mean - you can toss in alot of different prerequisites that would make it hellish for a person to just jump in and do it when compared to a person who's gained those things through weeks/months of playing...
bah, going to bed.
3. Imo ur logic is flawed. MC5 may have been setup by CA but they for sure do not claim to run it. They try to claim they are a squeaky clean government, so they sure as hell aren't going to admit to having a brainwashing facility. So imo and CA's would be that MC5 is not affiliated with ne faction, therefore, it doesn't matter who kills the guards. You can't loose symp for CA if CA claims they have no ties to MC5, can you?
But CA did claim knowledge, that's the problem.
1. Most ppl will just go Pro-city to do the run, even if it is very hard it is prolly easier than camping MC5 for 4-5 hours and getting random parts to split with a number of other ppl.
As I said, one can arguably stick in a myriad of prereqs which would make it all but impossible.
lol.. well, there's certainly a lot of things to consider so it can't be exploited. I just say leave it as is. There's other things to do besides rework how we get MC5 chips.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
lol.. well, there's certainly a lot of things to consider so it can't be exploited. I just say leave it as is. There's other things to do besides rework how we get MC5 chips.
Oh, I'm not saying these are a necessity.
Just ideas.
Lovely ideas to feed the flames of production.
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 09:41
Originally posted by Marx
But CA did claim knowledge, that's the problem.
Soz but I haven't been to MC5 in a long while now, but they don't say they are CA, do they?
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Soz but I haven't been to MC5 in a long while now, but they don't say they are CA, do they?
Talk to all the MC5 folk.
They mention direct ties to the City Admin and Bio Tech.
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 09:45
Originally posted by Marx
Talk to all the MC5 folk.
They mention direct ties to the City Admin and Bio Tech.
Yeah but do the CA and BT folks mention having ties to MC5?:p
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Yeah but do the CA and BT folks mention having ties to MC5?:p
I beleive CA has disclosed information about its 'criminal reeducation center'... Though I could be mistaken.
I know!! Since CA owns/Runs/has ties to/whatever MC5, then make it so CA cant go there! Make an MC4 !!!11 for Pro-City, one that spies and PEs (like marx) can do. Then all will be happy, and everyone and their mothers will have MC5/4 chips .. and people will be dropping them on the ground cause they arent worth the weight to carry1!1
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 10:14
Another thing; if Procity got their MC5s via a run and anticity had to gather parts via MC5, than I think you would see alot of MC5 camping by procity.
Doesn't seem like this idea would be fair for anticity at all, sounds like it would just be an easier way of getting MC5s 4 procity peeps.
I like the idea of creating a run for them for pro-city factions, and it should be long, but it shouldn't be one big, fat, boring time sink.
Add some interesting challenges like you have to farm for specific items to create "parts" for the implant, and the implant would require 20 or so parts. It would definetely give some purpose to the many items which serve absolutely no use whatsoever in cave mob drops and the like.
And maybe add a part where, in order to prove your worth, you have to kill a 120/120 MC5 like gladiator (only without the copbot rifles because that would be impossible) by yourself.
Another thing; if Procity got their MC5s via a run and anticity had to gather parts via MC5, than I think you would see alot of MC5 camping by procity.
Doesn't seem like this idea would be fair for anticity at all, sounds like it would just be an easier way of getting MC5s 4 procity peeps.
They could impliment something that would cause procity players to lose SL for killing MC5 mobs, much as you would killing any other allied NPC.
Originally posted by Marx
IF YOU VOTE NO AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
Alright, we all know that MC5 was a facility set up by the City Admin and its supporters to brainwash rabble rousers and wasteland trash into supporting Reza.
All nicities aside, its a nothing more than a Citizen Maker 3000.
My question is this... Why should pro-city clans raid MC5 to get technology which their own faction put forward? Doesn't that completely negate the entire idea behind MC5?
I mean its like "Hey, our factions made the place... Lets go kill all our own dudes and get their uber loot".
Does that make any sense? Any sense at all?
No.
My suggestion is this: Pro City members can earn *A* MC5 chip through a run or tasking akin to an epic, only longer. Not harder (because there's no way to really make it harder :wtf: ), just more time consuming.
This would do two things.
1.) Make MC5 make more RP sense in the world.
2.) Free up MC5 so the anti-city folk can raid it to get parts.
If you vote yes, please rate this 5 stars.
If you vote no, please defend your point seeing as I'll defend mine.
Nope. All I see here is a lame attempt to make it easy to get mc5 chips and ruin one of the few semi-rare things in this game. No dice.
Everyone would just go CA-friendly, get the chips, then switch back to thier anti-city factions.
Free up MC5? I have been to mc5 in this game more then I would like to admit, and its rarely camped. When it is, you have a good fight with the people there...and its fun.
In my opinion MC5 should be harder, like no zone at the back AND no glass....make it REALLY TOUGH to get those chips, so it actually takes ALOT of time and effort to have a mc5 chip.
Excellent idea, Marx.
Unfortunately, I can already predict what someone will say, so I will be 1337 and say it before they do:
HAY, THIS IDEA SUKS BECUZ I R 1337 AND I R OWNE A Mc5 CHIOP! AND I R GREDY! AND I R NO WANT ANY1 ELSE 2 HVE 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that that's out of the way, excellent idea once again, it makes sense. A run may not be the best way to go about doing it, because most missions only involve time, and little skill is needed once you throw a PPU on your ass.
Maybe a better way to go about doing so would be a requirement of 30-50 different Twilight Guardian Factions Members, to show you are dedicated to the City Admin.
I dunno, it's just a suggestion. I suck at ideas. :)
Originally posted by Nvidia
HAY, THIS IDEA SUKS BECUZ I R 1337 AND I R OWNE A Mc5 CHIOP! AND I R GREDY! AND I R NO WANT ANY1 ELSE 2 HVE 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its not called greed. Its called I worked my ass off in mc5 to get my mc5 chips, yes I have 10 and yes it was a SHITLOAD of work to get them all, and so can everyone else!
If you don't want to do the work, then you don't get the chips. Its just that simple. And to be frank, this and other ideas on alternative methods to gaining mc5 chips are just for lazy people who won't go and get them like everyone else. Boohoo.
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 10:38
Originally posted by Lanigav
They could impliment something that would cause procity players to lose SL for killing MC5 mobs, much as you would killing any other allied NPC.
umm I meant procity ppl would camp the anticity players.
If ur procity you just need to finish a run to get a chip but anticity would need to go collect the parts.
If ur procity why not make it harder for anticity by killing them at MC5 especially if the guards were changed to be allied with procity, therefore, not shooting at them...
Nope. Would give too much of an advantage to one side the way you put it.
Oh yeah and...
IF YOU VOTE YES AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
Athon Solo
I just love to read always the stuff like all the lazy ppl... and something like that.
FFS, there are ppl who dont have 24/7 time to play NC.
Just hate this narrow thinking... "I have the time, so all the other ppl too." lol
Sorry for off-topic, but i just had to mention it.
Yeah, but the run would have to be long, but **NOT** boring.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 10:50
Why not just implement a run for any faction? O_o
It could be very hard still. But it would give a chance for pistol spies, droners, etc... to get parts on their own. :p
MC5 parts don't actually take much time to get. Not much at all. Maybe the run could be for 1-2 parts.
Actually, mc5 doesn't take a long time. It's just like leveling monk int. Hellishly boring and mind numbingly frustrating.
TheGreatMilenko
10-03-04, 10:50
voted no because im a dumbass:p
http://www.scifi.pages.at/bitburger/wayne/owned4.jpg
Originally posted by Sobi
I just love to read always the stuff like all the lazy ppl... and something like that.
FFS, there are ppl who dont have 24/7 time to play NC.
Just hate this narrow thinking... "I have the time, so all the other ppl too." lol
Sorry for off-topic, but i just had to mention it.
I can get 6 mc5 parts, solo, in 2 hours tops...usually in less time then that.
If you don't have 2 hours to rub together, you're either full of shit or too busy to even bother having your Neocron acct open.
MC5 isn't hard for anyone thats not a noob, whether you got time or not....my clanmate Pwnage is at school 30 hours a week and works 20 hours a week, he can hardly squeeze in the time to take a shit never mind play Neocron. But he does have the odd day where he has some time to play, and with a bit of help from me his tank has a herc and his pe has a SA. its not that hard.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 10:53
g0rt, you solo mc5? o_O
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
g0rt, you solo mc5? o_O
ya rasp sits on my laptops and buffs hell dust. it was hard at first but ive gotten it down easy now.
soloing with 2 accts and 2 computers tho, so its soloing in the sense that its only ME playing, but im actually using duel characters
:p
Notice how most of the people voting for the run are spies?
@ g0rt
if i had a damn tank it would be possible, but my only char that deals dmg is an apu. And he is more time dead in mc5 than alive.
But back to topic: I still dont want mc5 to be changed. Its ok the way it is now. Althouigh i still dont have any chip and propably wont ever get one. (hate ebay whores...)
And beeing in a clan would surely help MUCH out. ;)
Sobi
That's one thing that MC5 is unfair about. Its absolutely tough as nails to do anything there as a spy or PE, since you can't do as much damage as a tank or APU, nor take as much damage as a tank even with heals and shields up (the APU's ability to to AOE and large damage spells with no aiming makes up for their lack of hardiness). Melee tanks can't do much of anything in there either, since being in direct line of fire of anything there equates to death. However, IMO the ressurect time nerf hurts more than anything when fighting there.
At any rate, I would like to be given the option to get one without having to blow outrageous amounts of NC, or compete with others in fighting them (especially since they rarely drop the parts as it is) which is excessively boring and yuck. At the very least, I'd like to be able to hunt them in places that aren't so cramped, and have there be multiple locales so everyone isn't fighting over them.
I voted "No" just to wind you up... I hate biased polls. The whole behind a poll is to gather actual community opinion. Not to encourage people to stroke your idea!
That being said. There's a simpler solution... Rename the MC5 Chips and associate them with a different, yet mutually hostile zone.
I'm a bit with Lanigav on this, spies and PE's have a harder time finding groups and teams to go to MC-5, and their role there is so unnecessary that almost is an act of charity.
We used to bring a Spy friend there so he could take part on it and get an SA, but after a time you realize that he is really slowing you down, so what's the point.
I think that ALL MC-5 guards, inside and outside, should have a small chance to drop MC-5 parts, make the commander to drop 2+ parts always so groups still have better advantage, but also allow snipers and classes that require other tactics to get them with time.
Dade Murphey
10-03-04, 12:50
I didn't read the thread...I read Marx's idea...
I have to say it's a good idea...and would make more SENSE...which at times is lacking in the game...one thing that would be good and help prevent faction hopping would be to make the MC5 chips earned thru runs maybe Faction specific or maybe Pro-city faction specific...and possibly, since MC5 is a CA setup, make you lose FS with the procity factions when you go there...neutrals and enemies being left out on the loss, because really, why would they care?
Didn't have MC-5 a story explaining it anyway?
The facility when you appear as newb is tearing apart due a chip problem, a crazy technician or so... when you come back it is totally out of hand and no one controls it.
I don't know the exact story as I get out of MC-5 asap, but I think it makes more sense if you do the missions available there.
I voted yes, not to any one particular idea just to anything that would change it from what it is now.
Originally posted by Dajuda
Notice how most of the people voting for the run are spies?
yes because does it seem fair that class has to rely on others to get rares for him? Yes there may be spies that can "survive" mc5 but show me one that can farm it efficiently.
I vote yes but the run would have to be difficult to make it work, also perhalps have the run give a random tech part each time? That way it will still be a huge timesink and you may still have to trade. (and why not incorporate killing some 120/120 anti-city guy into the run?)
Originally posted by g0rt
Nope. All I see here is a lame attempt to make it easy to get mc5 chips and ruin one of the few semi-rare things in this game. No dice.
Nothing in this game is rare. As it stands now, the only people who can really earn MC5 chips are tanks and monks... PE's and Spies just suck in MC5 - and no one really knows why.
Everyone would just go CA-friendly, get the chips, then switch back to thier anti-city factions.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
One could easily set in a number of prerequisites which would make it all but impossible, want to see examples, read the whole thread next time.
Free up MC5? I have been to mc5 in this game more then I would like to admit, and its rarely camped. When it is, you have a good fight with the people there...and its fun.
Maybe on your server, but on mine there's generally one group or another - and in most cases one group will start fighting the other.
In my opinion MC5 should be harder, like no zone at the back AND no glass....make it REALLY TOUGH to get those chips, so it actually takes ALOT of time and effort to have a mc5 chip.
Well, there's already enough MC5 chips on all the servers to give at least every person one... Lets drop this 'THAY R RARE' shit, because they're not. They're controlled.
Like diamonds - they're only beleived to be rare because people have a monopoly on them.
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Another thing; if Procity got their MC5s via a run and anticity had to gather parts via MC5, than I think you would see alot of MC5 camping by procity.
Doesn't seem like this idea would be fair for anticity at all, sounds like it would just be an easier way of getting MC5s 4 procity peeps.
So?
I've yet to see where in the manual it says the conflicts between pro and anti-city would be fair.
Originally posted by athon
Nope. Would give too much of an advantage to one side the way you put it.
Oh yeah and...
IF YOU VOTE YES AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
Athon Solo
Sorry, have to sleep some time.
-- And that's the point. Pro-City would have the advantage seeing as they're part of a large military and economic powerhouse while the anti-city factions are not.
I voted "No" just to wind you up... I hate biased polls. The whole behind a poll is to gather actual community opinion. Not to encourage people to stroke your idea!
That being said. There's a simpler solution... Rename the MC5 Chips and associate them with a different, yet mutually hostile zone.
How is this a biased poll?
It's either "Yes, you think this would improve the world of Neocron" or "No, I don't think it will improive the world of Neocron".
:wtf:
IF YOU VOTE YES AND DON'T DEFEND YOUR POINT, YOU LACK THE TESTICULAR FORTITUDE TO EVEN HAVE AN OPINION.
Nuff said...
Originally posted by yibble
Nuff said...
hay, go back one page.
:rolleyes:
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 19:31
Originally posted by Marx
So?
I've yet to see where in the manual it says the conflicts between pro and anti-city would be fair.
Lmao, let me guess your a spy and procity?
If you don't see how your idea is totally biased to anticity o_O .
Gee lets let procity ppl just do runs to get the most coveted chips in the game while the anticity have to farm and work for theirs.
Imo you are trying to overcomplicate things for no good reason.
Only viable reason I've heard for changing it a bit is cause spies and PEs don't fair well there.
But on that note, I've only been to MC5 maybe a half a dozen times and my spies have never been, but somehow I managed to obtain 2 Hawkings and a Riggers Dream for my spies.
Its not hard to buy parts off of ppl that go....especially since Monks and tanks do not need the other parts so they often sell them off for extra cash.
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Lmao, let me guess your a spy and procity?
If you don't see how your idea is totally biased to anticity o_O .
Lets see, all my dudes are crahn...
Gee lets let procity ppl just do runs to get the most coveted chips in the game while the anticity have to farm and work for theirs.
Just because you associate the term run with a crappy epic doesn't mean it has to be easy.
:rolleyes:
Imo you are trying to overcomplicate things for no good reason.
Wouldn't be all that complicated, the only reason people are viewing it as such is because they don't agree.
Only viable reason I've heard for changing it a bit is cause spies and PEs don't fair well there.
The only way to make them more viable would be to make the commander and the assorted interioir mobs not as strong... The chances of that happening is nil.
]But on that note, I've only been to MC5 maybe a half a dozen times and my spies have never been, but somehow I managed to obtain 2 Hawkings and a Riggers Dream for my spies.
I have two full SA's a DS and a herc.
Its not hard to buy parts off of ppl that go....especially since Monks and tanks do not need the other parts so they often sell them off for extra cash.
I know, but the point is - why should a cityadmin person be forced to buy cityadmin technology from say... TG?
Well, there's already enough MC5 chips on all the servers to give at least every person one... Lets drop this 'THAY R RARE' shit, because they're not. They're controlled.
Like diamonds - they're only beleived to be rare because people have a monopoly on them.
Again, no dice. What you want is to make it so every damn noob in the game can have a mc5 chip. Right now only experianced players have a chance at getting them. With this change, they will be as easy to get as epic chips :rolleyes:
And im not reading your billion-quote replies anymore, so if you want me to read what you have to say press the reply button ONCE and type your reply.
Originally posted by g0rt
Again, no dice. What you want is to make it so every damn noob in the game can have a mc5 chip. Right now only experianced players have a chance at getting them. With this change, they will be as easy to get as epic chips :rolleyes:
And if you read my posts... You'd see that only experienced players would be able to get at the run - which doesn't guarentee an easy victory over the MC5 dilemma.
And im not reading your billion-quote replies anymore, so if you want me to read what you have to say press the reply button ONCE and type your reply.
I'm sorry your attention span is limited.
Well I guess 2 was better then 10. Not limited attention spam, just cant be arsed to read your poorly layed out, annoying replies.
No matter what you tell me, some stupid Run *WILL* be easier then MC5 is.
Anyway I don't even know why im arguing, KK wont do this...
Originally posted by g0rt
Well I guess 2 was better then 10. Not limited attention spam, just cant be arsed to read your poorly layed out, annoying replies.
No matter what you tell me, some stupid Run *WILL* be easier then MC5 is.
Anyway I don't even know why im arguing, KK wont do this...
MC5 is easy - its just time consuming, boring.
This, would be time consuming, boring.
It's not like I'm suggesting a series of courier runs.
:rolleyes:
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 19:48
MC5 isnt CA .. hence why CA get shot if they go there...
MC5 is supposed challenge ... hence it is hard to conquer .. but once you get used to hunting there you can get some nice rewards ... an experience anyone who wants an mc5 chip should try too
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
MC5 isnt CA .. hence why CA get shot if they go there...
MC5 is CA.
But in a glorious oversight by KK it seems that the MC5 folks claim they work for CA and CA has claimed knowledge... Yet they shoot eachother.
MC5 is supposed challenge ... hence it is hard to conquer .. but once you get used to hunting there you can get some nice rewards ... an experience anyone who wants an mc5 chip should try too
It's not hard. It's not a challenge. It's different... And once people find a good way to do it they form a nice lil' habit. The group I've gone with hardly dies.
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 19:53
Well if its not hard why do we need some dumbass run that can be done by power gamers to harvest chips even faster ?
MC5 really is perfect as it is
I voted no.
It's meant to be a top secret facility. City Admin runners would know fuck all about it or where it was or whether there was such a thing as an MC5 chip at all.
Why should Pro-city runners get them any easier?
Why wouldn't someone roll a pro-city runner to get the chips for their alts.
5 stars my arse.
Sounds like someone's got no parts.
Disturbed021
10-03-04, 19:56
Originally posted by Marx
I know, but the point is - why should a cityadmin person be forced to buy cityadmin technology from say... TG?
OMG get over it lol. Lot's of shit in this game doesn't make sense like why fire mobs drop tech parts or vhc parts.
Or why there is this complicated sewer system but there aren't any toiletso_O
Point is ur really stuck on this whole MC5 is CA bs, it's not. The gaurds say MC5 not CA. Everyone, procity or anticity have a fair chance of going to MC5 to obtain tech parts.
You pointed out you have 2 SA's a herc and a DS and I believe you are a spy, my spies have 3 MC5s, so the whole argument for doing a run so Spies and PEs can get MC5s is bs too.
As g0rt said "some stupid Run *WILL* be easier then MC5" no matter how complicated you say it will be, it will not be harder than MC5 is.
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
Well if its not hard why do we need some dumbass run that can be done by power gamers to harvest chips even faster ?
MC5 really is perfect as it is
Earning one chip via a run akin to the epic setup (can only do it once as any pro-city faction... ie... you can only get one...) will not allow powergamers to get it faster.
Figure in prerequisites...
- Rank 60ish
- X amount in all allied pro-city faction stats - Kind of hard to do if you were a raving anti-city person before
- Must've completed that factions epic run
- must've been in the faction x amount of time (I've been told the game does keep track of faction start dates).
You could easily add tens of hundreds more.
That just gets them the chance to do the run... And I'm not even speculating on that, because its supposed to be a difficult time consuming task.
OMG get over it lol. Lot's of shit in this game doesn't make sense like why fire mobs drop tech parts or vhc parts.
Or why there is this complicated sewer system but there aren't any toilets
Point is ur really stuck on this whole MC5 is CA bs, it's not. The gaurds say MC5 not CA. Everyone, procity or anticity have a fair chance of going to MC5 to obtain tech parts.
You pointed out you have 2 SA's a herc and a DS and I believe you are a spy, my spies have 3 MC5s, so the whole argument for doing a run so Spies and PEs can get MC5s is bs too.
As g0rt said "some stupid Run *WILL* be easier then MC5" no matter how complicated you say it will be, it will not be harder than MC5 is.
Well, I for one want to see shit make sense. Is that wrong? You may get pissed off at the devourer, but I get pissed when the plotline the game revolves around is full of holes that one could drive a tank through.
Also, I have access to now five accounts. I don't play as my spy when I go to mc5.
:rolleyes:
Not everyone has access to 1337 tanks who their friends are leaving behind for a few.
Anyway, seeing as no one has yet to even speculate on what the run would consist of... How could you say its easier?
o_O
What if the run required something like 20 ceres cyborg chips? That ain't easy. MC5 itself might actually be easier than that. Or some other suitably difficult to obtain item.
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 20:08
you cant compare any sort of hunting to mc5 ... mc5 is enclosed with 6/7 badass mobs ... 7 y reps in the open would be a piece of piss
Originally posted by Glok
What if the run required something like 20 ceres cyborg chips? That ain't easy. MC5 itself might actually be easier than that. Or some other suitably difficult to obtain item.
One could easily stick in any sort of kill task to do it.
]v[ortice
I voted no.
It's meant to be a top secret facility. City Admin runners would know fuck all about it or where it was or whether there was such a thing as an MC5 chip at all.
Why should Pro-city runners get them any easier?
Why wouldn't someone roll a pro-city runner to get the chips for their alts.
5 stars my arse.
Sounds like someone's got no parts.
Yeah, I only farm them and have my own complete mc5's.
Way to read.
And anyway, if its so top secret, why do the Faction Counsellors talk about it?
o_O
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
you cant compare any sort of hunting to mc5 ... mc5 is enclosed with 6/7 badass mobs ... 7 y reps in the open would be a piece of piss
Not really - what're the chances of you coming across 7 Y-reps with a PPU stapled to your ass?
Disturbed021
11-03-04, 00:24
Originally posted by Marx
Well, I for one want to see shit make sense. Is that wrong? You may get pissed off at the devourer, but I get pissed when the plotline the game revolves around is full of holes that one could drive a tank through.
U seem to be the one adding holes to the plotline.
MC5 was created by CA.
CA claims no knowledge of it cause they are illegally brainwashing folks.
ne one from ne faction can go there and kill the guards cause they ARE NOT CA, they ARE independent of CA or at least thats what CA wants the masses to believe. But whatever, you'll just counter with but they are CA cause you see the MC5 counsellors talk about CA...well if you can't see how bad that would make CA look if they admit to creating and maintaining MC5 than u really don't see the plotline at all...
Any governmant that claims to be squeaky clean is going to deny having ties to illegal activities, period.
Originally posted by Marx
Anyway, seeing as no one has yet to even speculate on what the run would consist of... How could you say its easier?
o_O
Cause i have seen how they do runs and epics. They are tedious and boring but not hard.
If ur talking about having to kill certain very high level, difficult mobs that only the top runners can kill and such, why don't you just have the run to be; kill the MC5 base commander...oh what! thats what it is now!
Again, imo you seem to have these great ideas that really add nothing to the game but try and overcomplicate a very simple thing.
ne one can go to MC5 and get tech parts as long as they can manage to kill the commander. It's fine the way it is.
Originally posted by Disturbed021
U seem to be the one adding holes to the plotline.
MC5 was created by CA.
CA claims no knowledge of it cause they are illegally brainwashing folks.
Then explain why the CA FC talked about it openly.
Any governmant that claims to be squeaky clean is going to deny having ties to illegal activities, period.
Why would a militant dictator care about public opinion? If I recall correctly, it was waved off as "criminal scum learning how to live properly".
Cause i have seen how they do runs and epics. They are tedious and boring but not hard.
...Because hardly anyone does them right...
If ur talking about having to kill certain very high level, difficult mobs that only the top runners can kill and such, why don't you just have the run to be; kill the MC5 base commander...oh what! thats what it is now!
BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT THE CITY ADMIN WOULD REWARD ITS OWN PEOPLE FOR DESTROYING ITS PROPERTY.
"You killed one of our best men! Good Job!"
Again, imo you seem to have these great ideas that really add nothing to the game but try and overcomplicate a very simple thing.
Its undercomplicated because they don't care. I think that much is obvious.
___T-X____
11-03-04, 01:04
Yup, MC5 needs a Epic Run. Its very bias towards apu/ppu combinations and is purely camping for hours. I dont have an mc5 chip and I'd sooner see mc5 removed its like KK cant be arsed and have just put in a time-sink that has helped fuck up the economy.
What I find more annoying, is that players that camped it when its was much much easier than its is now are bragging about how htyerve got so many MC5 chips. Is a real joke the drop rate and difficulty - and pointless from an RP point of view.
I may agree or disagree with the exact idea of Marx, but he has a point nonetheless.
MC-5 is too elitist atm, in the first steps of its introduction was good to keep it as rare or very hard to get, but this has reached a point that only certain classes are effective in MC-5 farming, giving a greater advantage to people who is in bandwagon clans and factions, or even in certain needed classes. I could care less about the advantages tho, but unfortunately they imply disadvantages for others who are not in the same line.
I see this point, and as me many people find it unfair. MC-5 chips are not either rare or hard anymore, their farming depends of certain factors who some people take advantage of. So in one hand you have players with an special ease to get them, and in the other casual players who, even after all this time the chips being in the game, have not seen any in their hands.
I can't say I like the idea of Marx because I don't, at least not with the current content in Neocron... the game needs to evolve more into the resources that will let it stablish various metods to achieve goals, at the moment all the resources imply combat. We can say that Neocron was designed simple, and it's growing complex.
Somehow I feel why the community is divided on this...
...there are people who hate rares or anything that sets disadvantages for casual gamers; others who like rares so powergamers have a tangible advantage over the rest; people who want balance between both, which I admit are very rare; or just hypocrites who defend points in which they do not believe to keep a situation that benefits them.
To be fair I can say that there is another group, one that wants everything in easy-mode, but that could be any of us in the correct situation...
The only way to overcome this is keeping a constant flow of content into the game, making some things obsolete as soon as others enter the game... that's the only fair way I can imagine to keep everyone satisfied.
I think that NOW there is a problem in the current way to achieve those chips, probably already months ago... there should be other ways to deliver their parts to players. And I believe that every special item in the game will go through the same stage, at least until the next flavour of the month item comes to replace it, or to attract people's attention away.
Disturbed021
11-03-04, 01:38
Originally posted by Marx
BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT THE CITY ADMIN WOULD REWARD ITS OWN PEOPLE FOR DESTROYING ITS PROPERTY.
"You killed one of our best men! Good Job!"
for the last friggin time they are not CA. They do not have the CA tag under their name -MC5 Guard- or whatever. It may have been originally setup by CA according to the MC5 counsellor guys but they are not CA ne more.
So stop saying they are :p
/edit nvm....we seem to have different ways of interpreting the story line and while it works well for me you seem to have a big problem with it and will never see it ne other way. I'm tired (as I'm sure you are) of responding to the same argument. I'll go away now:D
No. Heres why: A run is 10 times easier then doing mc5... and thats not fair. Commander drops a part about 1 in 3 deaths on average, more if your really lucky, less if your not.... often these are lame parts like riggers or hawkings, istead of the good ones most people want... so mc5 is much harder and more time consuming then a run, no mater what. I agree CA attacking MC5 may not make a whole lot f sense, but then, a lot of NC doesnt make sense.... also, maybe mc5 is so secret the regular CA's dont know what it is and view it as a threat, like everyone else does.
Sleawer, my point doesn't revolve around camping MC5... Though I agree with what you say, I can honestly care less in regards to class imbalances while fighting in it.
My point revolves around the storyline.
Disturbed, heads up here: People in MC5 talk about being hired by the City Admin, talk about how City Admin and Biotech made the place, etc.
Faction Counsellors talk about it, talk about how hard it was to hire all the people to get there, blah blah. In the end they threaten to use it like a soviet style gulag... Which is exactly what it is.
In order to use it like a threat... The public would have to know about it... Right? Else it wouldn't be very threatening.
Why is it that Pro-City people don't lose FS and SL for destroying pro-city property? Why are they rewarded for undermining their own faction? Their own heirarchy?
Especially since the factions seem to acknowledge MC5.
That is my point.
A run would be one way of changing this - perhaps adopting some earlier ideas of a DoY style camp vs. a NC style camp would be another.
But as it stands now, it makes no sense - You people who defend the current system, enjoy it... But don't complain when bigger more blatantly obvious plot gaps come up.
Vettero - what if that run included killing 100 DoY bots, 100 Y replicants, 100 doom harbingers, 100 chaos queens... and 100 viper kings?
DON'T JUDGE IT SINCE NO ONE HAS EVEN TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE RUN WOULD CONTAIN\
Compared to a run like that, MC5 would be a minute egg... No?
FirestarXL
11-03-04, 02:17
I don't agree. The runners we play are not part of the neocron government, they are no more allowed to walk into MC5 than you are to walk into your local secret government research facility - whether you belong to the nationality of that government or not. That analogy is not 100% perfect and inconsistant with a few other mechanics in the game - but it does work for this well enough, in that giving pro-city runners some sort of preferential treatment does not make sense to me.
BTW, my char is and always has been, CityAdmin. Just for reference.
Originally posted by FirestarXL
I don't agree. The runners we play are not part of the neocron government, they are no more allowed to walk into MC5 than you are to walk into your local secret government research facility - whether you belong to the nationality of that government or not. That analogy is not 100% perfect and inconsistant with a few other mechanics in the game - but it does work for this well enough, in that giving pro-city runners some sort of preferential treatment does not make sense to me.
BTW, my char is and always has been, CityAdmin. Just for reference.
As a member of any faction, you are technically an employee - an employee who must abide by common rules.
These employers are all tools of a puppet government...
Break the rules, face consequences.
FirestarXL
11-03-04, 03:35
Yes an employee - the lowest part of the food chain within a faction. MC5 and the technology developed there is off limits to peons like us and was never intended to be used by us. My thought is, that MC5 technology was only ever designed for use in technology such as COPBOTS and STORM bots (the rumour is, that these are not purely cybernetic units, but robocop-like cyborgs). We were never meant to get our hands on that technology in any way, therefore the only way it is out there is through illegal methods, i.e. the raiding on MC5. It makes most sense exactly the way it is now (except for getting reward money for killing them, but that is not the topic of this thread).
Originally posted by FirestarXL
Yes an employee - the lowest part of the food chain within a faction. MC5 and the technology developed there is off limits to peons like us and was never designed to come into our hands in any way.
Yes, but if say... The requirements to do the run was having x amount of FS while maintaining a rank of over say... 60... One could state they they're no longer a Peon, but an above par worker/warrior for their faction... A person who make the faction benefit if this experimental technology was used on them.
My thought is, that MC5 technology was only ever designed for use in technology such as COPBOTS and STORM bots (the rumour is, that these are not purely cybernetic units, but robocop-like cyborgs). We were never meant to get our hands on that technology in any way, therefore the only way it is out there is through illegal methods, i.e. the raiding on MC5. It makes most sense exactly the way it is now (except for getting reward money for killing them, but that is not the topic of this thread).
Well, if its as you say... Illegal - I think there should be some sort of penalty, its only fair... Eye for an eye and all.
I mean, I'm pretty sure Reza's lil top tier of people would be pretty pissed.
FirestarXL
11-03-04, 04:11
Originally posted by Marx
Yes, but if say... The requirements to do the run was having x amount of FS while maintaining a rank of over say... 60... One could state they they're no longer a Peon, but an above par worker/warrior for their faction... A person who make the faction benefit if this experimental technology was used on them.
[b]
Well, if its as you say... Illegal - I think there should be some sort of penalty, its only fair... Eye for an eye and all.
I mean, I'm pretty sure Reza's lil top tier of people would be pretty pissed.
You can do your epic run, have a faction symp of 100 and all the rest - but you're still a runner. Anyone who's been through the MC5 brainwashing facility is and always will be - since CA know all too well that the process is not infallible. They would also accept that a certain percentage of runners are spies or simply untrustworthy. A government or organisation does not give out its best and most valued technology to someone it does not fully and completely trust. Also, if it were given to runners, they could lose control of it very easily - runners can lose things to other runners, their own STORM and COPBOT units do not (RP wise they self distruct on termination etc). It simply doesn't make sense that runners would ever be allowed to use MC5 technology. Just too much risk of it falling into enemy hands (shock horror).
Penalty wise - yeah, if a CA runner is caught using an MC5 chip then yeah there should be punishment - I wouldn't put it past the NC government to kill em on the spot. But who's gonna own up to that eh? MC5 chips don't have the LE style technology in em, after all they are for use by internal units anyway.
Gameplay wise I see what you're trying to do, and I don't totally disagree with it - hell, farming MC5 isn't the most fun thing in my life - but I do very much disagree with the RP reason you're putting forward in this particular thread.
Originally posted by FirestarXL
You can do your epic run, have a faction symp of 100 and all the rest - but you're still a runner. Anyone who's been through the MC5 brainwashing facility is and always will be - since CA know all too well that the process is not infallible. They would also accept that a certain percentage of runners are spies or simply untrustworthy. A government or organisation does not give out its best and most valued technology to someone it does not fully and completely trust. Also, if it were given to runners, they could lose control of it very easily - runners can lose things to other runners, their own STORM and COPBOT units do not (RP wise they self distruct on termination etc). It simply doesn't make sense that runners would ever be allowed to use MC5 technology. Just too much risk of it falling into enemy hands (shock horror).
But the MC5 technology is not its best and brightest. Actually, its been a long while since MC5 started pouring out reeducated people. I heartily doubt that the MC5 chip would be the end-all be-all of Neocron Defense Forces...
The enemy has already shown itself to possess the technology - whats the point in hiding it anymore?
Penalty wise - yeah, if a CA runner is caught using an MC5 chip then yeah there should be punishment - I wouldn't put it past the NC government to kill em on the spot. But who's gonna own up to that eh? MC5 chips don't have the LE style technology in em, after all they are for use by internal units anyway.
I'm pretty sure that the MC5 facility would have some sort of hypothetical monitoring devices... People who commit crimes there could easily be ID'd and punished at a later time.
FirestarXL
11-03-04, 05:17
Originally posted by Marx
But the MC5 technology is not its best and brightest. Actually, its been a long while since MC5 started pouring out reeducated people. I heartily doubt that the MC5 chip would be the end-all be-all of Neocron Defense Forces...
The enemy has already shown itself to possess the technology - whats the point in hiding it anymore?
Well, ten minutes maybe. Everytime someone creates a new character, which on a gamewide scale including all servers, must be fairly often.
And no, it's not the lynchpin in NC's arsenal, but neither is it something that can be given lightly to the enemy. For all we know, every single COPBOT and STORM bot unit has some sort of parellel running version of every type of MC5 chip - to make up that 120/120 rank. If the enemy want to make something similar, it's the city's aim to stop them, not to just give up and make it even easier for them. DoY already made the mistake of letting us get hold of their Kami technology, there's no real need to return the favour. Also, we don't know that they can reverse engineer MC5 technology, just as we don't know if CA scientists have reverse engineered kami tech. So it may be that it's just as critical as ever to ensure that NC technology stays where it was intended. And if it turns out that it CAN be replicated, then it is simply the case that you don't want to increase the risk of enemy runners gaining that technology - they after all, are the cannon fodder that can make the difference. And their leaders are likely to treat technology like that in the same way that NC government does - you won't be seeing Kami chips handed out to all and sundry in DoY for the same reason.
I'm pretty sure that the MC5 facility would have some sort of hypothetical monitoring devices... People who commit crimes there could easily be ID'd and punished at a later time. [/B]
You got me there. I know if I had a secret research facility, I'd keep mugshots of any fuckwit who broke in and stole my stuff. Yet they don't. It would apply equally though mind, so if an enemy runner that had been id'd there was spotted by a copbot they'd be shot same as a city runner. Doesn't invalidate my other points, and personally I'd chalk this one up to gameplay over roleplay, but you're totally right about it being a bit of a logical hole.
Anyway, I'm off to bed. :o :D
If ya wanna make them easier to get, just put the glass back in.
Sure it ain't role play, but it will be fair to all sides =/
Elroy Jetson
11-03-04, 21:23
Somehow when i read your post Fire i came to a neat idea.
If the (mugshots) of the last person that took down the commander was posted on a screen in plaza 1 or in the cityAdmin HQ. Hell for that matter it would be cool if them posted any kind of runner stats on a billboard in plaza 1. ie. kills , lowest sl.
Oh and i say no on the changing mc5. I think its hard as hell and should be. I compare MC5 to Nasa. Contracted by CA to brainwash ppl but run indepedently of CA. therefore CA runners actually have no affiliation with MC5 except the deal that Rezza has made. So they have the opertunity same as any other runner to go in there and snatch themselves some parts.:D
Originally posted by Tycho C
If ya wanna make them easier to get, just put the glass back in.
Sure it ain't role play, but it will be fair to all sides =/
Nowhere do I say "make it easier". This is a plea to make it make sense - not a plea to make it easier.
Originally posted by Elroy
Oh and i say no on the changing mc5. I think its hard as hell and should be. I compare MC5 to Nasa. Contracted by CA to brainwash ppl but run indepedently of CA. therefore CA runners actually have no affiliation with MC5 except the deal that Rezza has made. So they have the opertunity same as any other runner to go in there and snatch themselves some parts.
Last time I checked, the government would go after you if you screwed with NASA.
And once again, I don't state anywhere that the affiliated run would be 'easy'.
Originally posted by FirestarXL
Well, ten minutes maybe. Everytime someone creates a new character, which on a gamewide scale including all servers, must be fairly often.
And no, it's not the lynchpin in NC's arsenal, but neither is it something that can be given lightly to the enemy. For all we know, every single COPBOT and STORM bot unit has some sort of parellel running version of every type of MC5 chip - to make up that 120/120 rank. If the enemy want to make something similar, it's the city's aim to stop them, not to just give up and make it even easier for them. DoY already made the mistake of letting us get hold of their Kami technology, there's no real need to return the favour. Also, we don't know that they can reverse engineer MC5 technology, just as we don't know if CA scientists have reverse engineered kami tech. So it may be that it's just as critical as ever to ensure that NC technology stays where it was intended. And if it turns out that it CAN be replicated, then it is simply the case that you don't want to increase the risk of enemy runners gaining that technology - they after all, are the cannon fodder that can make the difference. And their leaders are likely to treat technology like that in the same way that NC government does - you won't be seeing Kami chips handed out to all and sundry in DoY for the same reason.
Well, ingame its been many years since MC5 started pushing out people and was raidable. In those many years... Many a MC5 chip has been made. In most cases, by anti-city folk seeing as on most servers, they're the ones with large clans.
So its already a losing battle - the anti-city forces are strong, and getting stronger... Meanwhile pro-city forces let it happen and also themselves undermine the system.
Anyway, seeing as the people who are actually feeding technology to the Dome of York seem to be subversives within the system... (i.e. Kami chips being designed by PP and BT scientists).. I don't think it would be too far off for the Dome of York to make an equivalent. They don't need to reverse engineer, because they could probably get the information from the hypothetical source. All they would need to do is produce them.
Just remember, Neocron is run by a tyrant - people don't like the system and will undermine it however they can... But no dictator would let slaps in the face like that go unpunished.
I do agree that mc5 isn't fair for spies and pe's because only apu's
and tanks can really benefit from that place "decently". They should
make one of the smaller mc5 sub-entrances contain 115/115 base
commander or along that idea to drop all mc5 chips except HC and
PSI parts so these two classes can have it easier.
In return this would make it easier for tanks and apu's to just camp
these spots to get parts easier for trading, but after people realize
that they are easier to obtain this way their value drops to say
2-3 million a part rather 5-6 in current mc5 parts.
Although, I don't want to see mc5's given out on epic runs, unless
they are very good and lengthy so that the chips can be earned,
not just obtained easier.
The place can be tweaked, it doesn't have to be dissassembled.
FBI
Originally posted by FBI
I do agree that mc5 isn't fair for spies and pe's because only apu's
and tanks can really benefit from that place "decently". They should
make one of the smaller mc5 sub-entrances contain 115/115 base
commander or along that idea to drop all mc5 chips except HC and
PSI parts so these two classes can have it easier.
In return this would make it easier for tanks and apu's to just camp
these spots to get parts easier for trading, but after people realize
that they are easier to obtain this way their value drops to say
2-3 million a part rather 5-6 in current mc5 parts.
Although, I don't want to see mc5's given out on epic runs, unless
they are very good and lengthy so that the chips can be earned,
not just obtained easier.
The place can be tweaked, it doesn't have to be dissassembled.
FBI
FBI, its not about balance.
Its about plot related gaps involving MC5.
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