View Full Version : What do the pvp-challenged do?
cuz i am honestly wondering what people that have no intentions of pvp'ing (the pvp-challenged) do in neocron?...and im talking about the completely anti-pvp people...the ones that just sit around in plaza using neocron as a chat room...
helping noobs/tradeskilling/chatting/hunting...hmm and no pvp....i still dont understand why anyone that wants nuthin to do with pvp is still in neocron...it makes no sense at all...
if this was a normal mmorpg...like other games that actually show your armor and have extremly rare things in the game that you can show off...i can somewhat understand why their's pvp-challenged people in those types of games that want nuthin to do with pvp...
but in a game where everyone uses rare weapons against each other...and the only armor that shows is powerarmor which is a default prototype/color...i just cant understand it...
personally...i will never stay in a game where their's no pvp...or it's not a big interest...to me their's no point in leveling...their's no point in paying a monthly fee, i mean shit if you wanna use the game as an enhanced aol chat room...sure go ahead...i heard everquest 2 has places to go and read your poetry...
Actually, I couldn't give a rats ass about PvP. I don't care what's nerfed, overpowered, crappy etc. in PvP. I only care when the other crowd (my word for most of you is "fucktards") start messing with MY part of the game for no reason.
I leave my LE in because I enjoy the neocron idea, how the game works, and building a character. I enjoy building characters, I enjoy exploring, I enjoy everything about the game, except the retards that feel that it's funny to PK me while I'm minding my own buisness.
"this is a gritty cyberpunk game with danger around every corner" yeah, the danger of being PK target #58674956739, because you happened to pick the wrong faction. The danger of parking your vehicle outside MB because it's the first time you've been there, hell, you're lucky if you make it to the GR inside before getting PKd, then you're out the vehicle, the entire wasted time on the trip, the money to get re-poked, recover your backpack, oh and goodluck getting whatever dropped in your belt, lamer PKer #2867 will just laugh at you for asking for the weapon you spent your last bit of creds on back.
maybe MAYBE if I had all my char ideas capped, every rare or imp I could ever want, and capped money, they MAYBE I would PvP, but there are just too many asswads for me to ruin what *I* enjoy to take my LE out.
Even in Shadowrun there were laws, all we have in this game is a PvP switch to stop the retards. thank god it works.
didn't you get a thread closed that was the same subject? you're just using a different term now? was it the term that got it closed?
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Actually, I couldn't give a rats ass about PvP. I don't care what's nerfed, overpowered, crappy etc. in PvP. I only care when the other crowd (my word for most of you is "fucktards") start messing with MY part of the game for no reason.
I leave my LE in because I enjoy the neocron idea, how the game works, and building a character. I enjoy building characters, I enjoy exploring, I enjoy everything about the game, except the retards that feel that it's funny to PK me while I'm minding my own buisness.
"this is a gritty cyberpunk game with danger around every corner" yeah, the danger of being PK target #58674956739, because you happened to pick the wrong faction. The danger of parking your vehicle outside MB because it's the first time you've been there, hell, you're lucky if you make it to the GR inside before getting PKd, then you're out the vehicle, the entire wasted time on the trip, the money to get re-poked, recover your backpack, oh and goodluck getting whatever dropped in your belt, lamer PKer #2867 will just laugh at you for asking for the weapon you spent your last bit of creds on back.
maybe MAYBE if I had all my char ideas capped, every rare or imp I could ever want, and capped money, they MAYBE I would PvP, but there are just too many asswads for me to ruin what *I* enjoy to take my LE out.
Even in Shadowrun there were laws, all we have in this game is a PvP switch to stop the retards. thank god it works.
This is exactly what we want to know. Why play a game thats more pvp then anything else instead of playing a game that you'll like more like swg or eq? Why play a game thats about pvp when you're pvp-challenged?
Still not a very good title for NON-PvP people.. :)
Edit: There is more to this game than PvP. :)
true enough... i'm just curious... now i'm not a DIEHARDRAMBO pvp dude.. but i do enjoy the fights and all that... and i cant stand playing just to quest, lvl hunt, repeat... I mean the thing about NC is that it has not just those things but PVP as well so you actually have something unique thats defined by your own playing style/skillz.
(that's also y i gave up on FFXI cuz i cant stand that lvling/hunting crap... and turn based pvp... skillz? my ass it needs skillz...)
and while mattimeo has a few good points, you really need to wonder... y do non-pvpers stay in NC when a good 50%+ of the game is devoted to pvp?
is it the people/community? or wut?
Originally posted by petek480
This is exactly what we want to know. Why play a game thats more pvp then anything else instead of playing a game that you'll like more like swg or eq? Why play a game thats about pvp when you're pvp-challenged?
Because none of them have warbots, psi-monks, a host of guns ETC.
Neocron is Unique and I want to enjoy it MY way, that has no bearing on YOUR way.
or are you trying to say neocron is just like EQ or SWG or any other game? O_o
Edit: and 0% of how I play and ENJOY neocron is PvP oriented, this for me 0% of the game is PvP.
Originally posted by mdares
and while mattimeo has a few good points, you really need to wonder... y do non-pvpers stay in NC when a good 50%+ of the game is devoted to pvp?
I dont think 50% of the game is devoted to PvP! ^-^
Originally posted by Mattimeo
or are you trying to say neocron is just like EQ or SWG or any other game? O_o
No i'm saying it's completely different from it. And you plus all the other people that don't like to pvp would like better. I like pvp so i'm not gonna play a game that doesn't really focus on pvp. So why play a game that focuses on pvp if you're not into pvp?
well this is what i was going to post in the other thread that got closed
hmm I have a crapload of LE'd characters . . I do PvP with them though it's called Neofrag. So it's not like a LE user CAN'T PvP. They can.
On Le'd characters I enjoy building up characters. I enjoy leveling with new people. And chatting with them as I level. Helping. Answering questions. I can watch fights emerge and not be a part of it. Although I must admint most fights I see are 1 non-'le'd person leveling with me and 3 people jumping them when they are half dead from leveling. Afterwards sex'ing thier body and the typical tank walking up to my Le'd character and shooting a CS at me to push me around. :rolleyes:
But I'm not against PvP. Eventually I will be a big participate in it but right now I"m still having fun trying different things out. And chatting with people. I do have money to spend. And I think it's really no ones concern how I play a game I myself pay for :)
Because none of them have warbots, psi-monks, a host of guns ETC
That's the thing. You can say all you want there are other games yadda yadda yadda, but in fact there aren't. The most I ever see is people say FoMK but that isn't even out is it? Even then it's not neocron is it?
Originally posted by petek480
No i'm saying it's completely different from it. And you plus all the other people that don't like to pvp would like better. I like pvp so i'm not gonna play a game that doesn't really focus on pvp. So why play a game that focuses on pvp if you're not into pvp?
Way to read, no wonder none of you EVER get it. I like neocron for everythign that ISN'T pvp. is that too difficult to comprehend?
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Actually, I couldn't give a rats ass about PvP. I don't care what's nerfed, overpowered, crappy etc. in PvP. I only care when the other crowd (my word for most of you is "fucktards") start messing with MY part of the game for no reason.
I leave my LE in because I enjoy the neocron idea, how the game works, and building a character. I enjoy building characters, I enjoy exploring, I enjoy everything about the game, except the retards that feel that it's funny to PK me while I'm minding my own buisness.
hi, how can "fuck tards" like myself and my clan start messing with "YOUR" part of the game for no reason if your LE is in. (or so you claim it is)
Originally posted by petek480
This is exactly what we want to know. Why play a game thats more pvp then anything else instead of playing a game that you'll like more like swg or eq? Why play a game thats about pvp when you're pvp-challenged?
Its not a matter of PvP challenged, its just a matter of people being dicks and other people not wanting to put up with it.
I can understand that - I don't mind dying, but frankly it is kind of asinine when people repeatedly go after you and treat you like shit when theres no warranted reason. What have I done to this person to warrant this treatment? Nothing - why are they harassing me via chat and killing me? No reason.
From what I've seen on the forums, the people who I've dubbed 'militant carebears' aren't anti-PvP, they're anti-grief. There's a real big difference... But on some servers the line between the two no longer exists.
Some common courtesy would alleviate all the problems really. But the people who are the problem won't bother and will continue to hide behind the "hurr, post apoc dense cyberpunk world" line.
A dick is a dick, ingame and out.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Way to read, no wonder none of you EVER get it. I like neocron for everythign that ISN'T pvp. is that too difficult to comprehend?
Yes, becuase there isn't really anything else then pvp. All the other games have far better leveling systems. Have better tradeskill systems. They have everything better except pvp, but you dont' like pvp so I don't know why you don't just play the game that'll give you more of what you want.
Originally posted by Kasumi
I dont think 50% of the game is devoted to PvP! ^-^
i dunt entirely agree:
rares: hunting? well no a non-rare does just as well... show off? maybe... pvp? yup.
epics: quests and all that, story line; but they all have 1 pvp element in the quests, sometimes 2 ...
resists: y the big fuss about resists? oh right weapons... but if ur hunting u only need one or two of em, not the "mad resists" that people talk about... again more pvp oriented.
PAs: does it really matter whether you hunt with a PA or not? not really... in fact most people wear specialized armor while hunting and rarely PAs... PvP? probably: since it gives enough boosts that wearing it is very viable (not counting tanks as HC pa is iffy topic)
and the most important: LE: y is it here? to keep people from newb killing... but if it was meant to be used as a full stop pvp barrier, then y does it have a /30 limit? because the game was developed with pvp as one of its main elements.
anyways just my thoughts :p
O forgot the biggie:
Outposts... y have them if your not supposed to fight over them... again more pvp related material...
only things not DIRECTLY pvp oriented are tradeskills and lvling/dungeons... but they're indirectly related... tradeskills is a source or items weapons, money, etc. for pvp, lvling/dungeons is for lvlin up till u can pvp...
while a few of the items in the above swing both ways, more than half of wut was mentioned is more in favor of pvp oriented content than not.
Originally posted by Twitch
hi, how can "fuck tards" like myself and my clan start messing with "YOUR" part of the game for no reason if your LE is in. (or so you claim it is)
Easy, with things like "Make more penalties for the LE's" "Have LE's turn off in warzones" "let me blow up LE driven vehicles" "remove the LE!"
of course thats when you;re on the boards, and not exploiting to find new and intresting ways to kill me (barrel exploit anyone?) or harassing me in game with directs of "hurhur u r teh retrd for keepign that wussy LE in nib I Pk u goo hurhur"
Edit:
Originally posted by petek480
Yes, becuase there isn't really anything else then pvp. All the other games have far better leveling systems. Have better tradeskill systems. They have everything better except pvp, but you dont' like pvp so I don't know why you don't just play the game that'll give you more of what you want.
Point me to the game thats just like neocron, that IS neocron, without you idiots. Please, I want to play this game.
Zith Caldir
10-03-04, 07:19
personally, i think "pvp-challenged" is a good term for it...
because i consider myself "pvp-challenged"
i have HORRIBLE framrates, and LOTS of lag....this maps pvp very difficult...so i steer away from it... i will attempt to kill someone if i really feel like it, but normally i try to keep away from it
i do, however, get mad at those people that will kill you for "red = dead" while they sit there and chat with someone who is also red right where you got killed... that's not PvP, that's not any sort of RP, that's just PKing...
but people do that, it's part of the game, so i'm not going to whine about it...
i won't put in an LE, because i want the OPTION of going around killing people...i don't like not having that option...and i like my 4th brain slot...
anywho...i kinda forgot why exactly i replied to this, so i'm just gonna shut up and go away now...
Carebears play Neocron because they dont want to believe its a pure pvp based game. When they find out the truth they believe its like the other mmorpgs and its possible to play it without pvp. Then they take out their LE, get pked, and cry on the forums for no fucking good reason.
Neocron needs KEEP YOUR LE IN in big red letters on the box.
And that isn't a joke. So many people dont get it....
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Easy, with things like "Make more penalties for the LE's" "Have LE's turn off in warzones" "let me blow up LE driven vehicles" "remove the LE!"
of course thats when you;re on the boards, and not exploiting to find new and intresting ways to kill me (barrel exploit anyone?) or harassing me in game with directs of "hurhur u r teh retrd for keepign that wussy LE in nib I Pk u goo hurhur"
now i dunt think that the LE needs more penalties.. its fine... but the other two points that people bring up are because it's been known that malicious people make LE chars that are used to spy, or drive vehicles that has an non-LE gunner, which in all forms seem for most poeple to be very unfair... while you might not be doign it, other people are. So people bring up those things as a way for hte community to brainstorm about it and see if theres a way to fix things without fuckign over LE users...
hell even i use my LE until i feel like i'm ready to do pvp... else i just keep it in.
Originally posted by mdares
now i dunt think that the LE needs more penalties.. its fine... but the other two points that people bring up are because it's been known that malicious people make LE chars that are used to spy, or drive vehicles that has an non-LE gunner, which in all forms seem for most poeple to be very unfair... while you might not be doign it, other people are. So people bring up those things as a way for hte community to brainstorm about it and see if theres a way to fix things without fuckign over LE users...
hell even i use my LE until i feel like i'm ready to do pvp... else i just keep it in.
You are a logical, thinking person. I like you, you get it. can you help explain said things to the people I've lost the patience to do so with?
I see it time and time again people will always tell new people why do you have your LE in when they are 0/2 or just a lil higher. And then tell them to take it out. And alot of times they carry their LE with them and then get pk'd . . . it has a habit of disappearing for some strange reason alot of times -_-;; I always tell people keep it in till you can either protect yourself or if you must take it out till you actually NEED that extra brain slot.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 07:26
Actually i'm curious as well. I could understand people who don't want pvp all the time, but to NEVER want pvp EVER?
I just don't get it, their must be tons of other mmorpgs out there that would be much better for them. And I don't mean this in an insulting way.
It's like me going to a tradeskilling game that has PvP as an add-on or something.
Sort of the way single player was an add-on for diablo2. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Easy, with things like "Make more penalties for the LE's" "Have LE's turn off in warzones" "let me blow up LE driven vehicles" "remove the LE!"
of course thats when you;re on the boards, and not exploiting to find new and intresting ways to kill me (barrel exploit anyone?) or harassing me in game with directs of "hurhur u r teh retrd for keepign that wussy LE in nib I Pk u goo hurhur"
Edit:
Point me to the game thats just like neocron, that IS neocron, without you idiots. Please, I want to play this game.
anarchy online, swg are a few that come to mind. If you find yourself overwhelmed by the masses that are out to kill you or slag the LE then maybe that tells you something about the game you're playing. not the people, but the game itself, and who it's aimed at. quit being so ignorant
ROFL SD copy and paste eh it was like a move to new thread with nothing new to add
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Point me to the game thats just like neocron, that IS neocron, without you idiots. Please, I want to play this game.
You mind answering my question to why you play neocron? You haven't said what this game has that other games that are more for the "pvp-challenged" don't. And don't say this game has warbots becuase I doubt that the warbots can keep people playing this game.
Originally posted by mdares
i dunt entirely agree:
rares: hunting? well no a non-rare does just as well... show off? maybe... pvp? yup.
epics: quests and all that, story line; but they all have 1 pvp element in the quests, sometimes 2 ...
resists: y the big fuss about resists? oh right weapons... but if ur hunting u only need one or two of em, not the "mad resists" that people talk about... again more pvp oriented.
PAs: does it really matter whether you hunt with a PA or not? not really... in fact most people wear specialized armor while hunting and rarely PAs... PvP? probably: since it gives enough boosts that wearing it is very viable (not counting tanks as HC pa is iffy topic)
O forgot the biggie:
Outposts... y have them if your not supposed to fight over them... again more pvp related material...
Most of that matters when hunting, rare weapons help with ALOT more damage on mob. ^-^ Power armor helps with killing monsters because of its bonus it gives.. Resist are important if you dont always use PPU when hunting.. Not all the epics require PvP most do but some dont.. :) Outposts help LE'd people to because of the bonus's they gives.. Your also missing that you can Roleplaying with LE, having fun since it is a game.. ^_^ I talk with my friends, i hunt with them.. I have a fun time with them! I dont ever have to PvP to have a great time.. PvP is a small thing in NEocron.. Huhu ^-^
Actually i'm curious as well. I could understand people who don't want pvp all the time, but to NEVER want pvp EVER?
I dont Pvp because I find killing MObs alot more fun, PvP is very boring.. I also feel bad when I kill people in Neocron so I dont do that either.. I usually always said sorry when I killed someone even though they kill me back.. ^-^
Originally posted by Twitch
anarchy online, swg are a few that come to mind. If you find yourself overwhelmed by the masses that are out to kill you or slag the LE then maybe that tells you something about the game you're playing. not the people, but the game itself, and who it's aimed at. quit being so ignorant
I'm the ignorant one. Way to show a level of hypocracy I never knew could exist, you really want to identify yourself as one of the masses you just put down.
Man, if I could in one statment belittle AND contradict myself like that I'd...well be you.
I'm not the one harassing or trying to destroy someones gameplay. nowonder this game has so few subscribers "Play it THIS way or get the hell out, we'll idiot you to death"
Edit:
Originally posted by petek480
You mind answering my question to why you play neocron? You haven't said what this game has that other games that are more for the "pvp-challenged" don't. And don't say this game has warbots becuase I doubt that the warbots can keep people playing this game.
It's everything in this game that isn't PvP, think about everything you do when you;re not PvPing, I enjoy all of that. so tell me a game that offers all of that (think, everything but the PvP part of the game). name one game, that IS neocron, without PvP.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
"Play it THIS way or get the hell out, we'll idiot you to death"
:lol:
That is actually a great line.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 07:31
Originally posted by Marx
Its not a matter of PvP challenged, its just a matter of people being dicks and other people not wanting to put up with it.
I can understand that - I don't mind dying, but frankly it is kind of asinine when people repeatedly go after you and treat you like shit when theres no warranted reason. What have I done to this person to warrant this treatment? Nothing - why are they harassing me via chat and killing me? No reason.
From what I've seen on the forums, the people who I've dubbed 'militant carebears' aren't anti-PvP, they're anti-grief. There's a real big difference... But on some servers the line between the two no longer exists.
Some common courtesy would alleviate all the problems really. But the people who are the problem won't bother and will continue to hide behind the "hurr, post apoc dense cyberpunk world" line.
A dick is a dick, ingame and out.
wow. I love you marx. I couldn't agree more.
<3
I'm very much anti-grief myself.
Their are always extremes on both sides of the equation. Like vetteroX for the "pkers" and Jackscratch for the anti's.
i guess one main concern of the pvp community is why we get people who come to the forums to complain about pvp when it's their fault in the first place to have removed the LE...
I think if people even bother glancing at the manual you get the drift that the LE is the way to stay safe.. and since this isnt a year ago where LE had penalties, i really dunt see wuts the big deal (about non-pvpers who complain about having to have in a LE.. i mean seriously if most of the game is geared towards pvp, then expect it to happen when u remove it...).
Plus that extra brainslot isnt a major gimpage when your not pvpin...
the thing i like best about NC is that i can choose to be a loner and skill enjoy the game... not like other mmos that force u to socialize... (i hate people... INSECTS ALL OF J00Z!)
Originally posted by mdares
I think if people even bother glancing at the manual you get the drift that the LE is the way to stay safe.. and since this isnt a year ago where LE had penalties, i really dunt see wuts the big deal (about non-pvpers who complain about having to have in a LE.. i mean seriously if most of the game is geared towards pvp, then expect it to happen when u remove it...).
There are alot more bad things that come with LE then most people seem to care about.. T-T
Most of that matters when hunting, rare weapons help with ALOT more damage on mob. ^-^ Power armor helps with killing monsters because of its bonus it gives.. Resist are important if you dont always use PPU when hunting.. Not all the epics require PvP most do but some dont.. Outposts help LE'd people to because of the bonus's they gives.. Your also missing that you can Roleplaying with LE, having fun since it is a game.. ^_^ I talk with my friends, i hunt with them.. I have a fun time with them! I dont ever have to PvP to have a great time.. PvP is a small thing in NEocron.. Huhu ^-^
ok the first things you said are alright...til you get to the point of...epics not requiring pvp...NEXT is the only one that i can think of that doesnt require you to kill atleast one person...ok and outposts helping le'd players...alright i see that...roleplaying can sometimes involve pvp...and i dont think i could ever hunt with friends without hitting them with my weapons...i play this game with my brother and my uncle...it's funny as hell when we just start laying into each other...that's truely fun...PvP is a HUGE part of neocron...try to think of neocron without pvp...now what do you see?...a dead game?...
Originally posted by Mattimeo
It's everything in this game that isn't PvP, think about everything you do when you;re not PvPing, I enjoy all of that.
When i'm not pvping i'm sitting in p2 or p3 afk and it's not that fun.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 07:36
IMO their should be a 5th brain slot JUST for LE.
LE people should be allowed their own clans, and finally their should be an alternative to the PvP part of every epic.
I don't see the problem with that. And non pvpers simply CANNOT complain about such a system. The LE, however, should be a choice for people who are hardcore about not wanting pvp. I don't think it should be a "let me take a break" tool.
Originally posted by petek480
When i'm not pvping i'm sitting in p2 or p3 afk and it's not that fun.
so all you do is go out and shoot people? you did nothing but shoot people or stand around in p2 or p3 the entirety of your chars life?
Originally posted by Mattimeo
so all you do is go out and shoot people? you did nothing but shoot people or stand around in p2 or p3 the entirety of your chars life?
Other then the leveling for 2 weeks and then about another 2 weeks getitng everything I needed to pvp.
Originally posted by gostly
ok the first things you said are alright...til you get to the point of...epics not requiring pvp...NEXT is the only one that i can think of that doesnt require you to kill atleast one person...ok and outposts helping le'd players...alright i see that...roleplaying can sometimes involve pvp...and i dont think i could ever hunt with friends without hitting them with my weapons...i play this game with my brother and my uncle...it's funny as hell when we just start laying into each other...that's truely fun...PvP is a HUGE part of neocron...try to think of neocron without pvp...now what do you see?...a dead game?...
I see another MMORPG.. I see PvP is part of the game but not a requirement to have lots of fun.. ^_^ LE people can go to Neofrag to PvP and I enjoy that lots with my friends but thats about it.. the Fallen Angel Epic will not require PvP at least thats what the developer people said.. :)
Originally posted by Kasumi
I see another MMORPG.. I see PvP is part of the game but not a requirement to have lots of fun.. ^_^ LE people can go to Neofrag to PvP and I enjoy that lots with my friends but thats about it.. the Fallen Angel Epic will not require PvP at least thats what the developer people said.. :)
you can NF with LEs in?
didnt know that...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO their should be a 5th brain slot JUST for LE.
LE people should be allowed their own clans, and finally their should be an alternative to the PvP part of every epic.
I don't see the problem with that. And non pvpers simply CANNOT complain about such a system. The LE, however, should be a choice for people who are hardcore about not wanting pvp. I don't think it should be a "let me take a break" tool.
Well said, completely agree 100%.
SD is where the parties at!
Originally posted by Mattimeo
I'm the ignorant one. Way to show a level of hypocracy I never knew could exist, you really want to identify yourself as one of the masses you just put down.
Man, if I could in one statment belittle AND contradict myself like that I'd...well be you.
I'm not the one harassing or trying to destroy someones gameplay. nowonder this game has so few subscribers "Play it THIS way or get the hell out, we'll idiot you to death"
Edit:
It's everything in this game that isn't PvP, think about everything you do when you;re not PvPing, I enjoy all of that. so tell me a game that offers all of that (think, everything but the PvP part of the game). name one game, that IS neocron, without PvP.
I AM one of the masses i was talking about, I never once put them down, I commend them because this community is very small and they define what it is. You asked for a few suggestions of games similar to this and without the PVP "fucktards" and i gave them to you.
As for what I do in this game that isn't PVP it's usually listening to people harassing me over the trade channel calling me insults (which i thrive off of) or trading for parts/rares, both of which point to or are for the purpose of what will be more PVP.
Your argument for you staying is probably something like "oh i like roleplaying and fighting monsters with my friends" I very very rarely see anybody roleplaying, I have yet to see a CA go OK CITIZENS IT'S TIME TO STOP THE TG TERRORISTS AND THEIR UNLAWFUL WAYS! FOR THE WILL OF LEEON REEZA!!!
My clan roleplays more than most people playing this game and we're being extremely sarcastic. Oh and we're "fucktards" too.
Take a look around you, there's cafes setup in via rosso do you see people sitting in the chairs and chatting and enjoying the nice environments and chatting about the exciting bustling world of NC?
No.
Oh and the monster AI is piss too in case you hadn't realized that when you can just hide around a mountain to kill a warbot when it lurches towards you at a snails pace.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO their should be a 5th brain slot JUST for LE.
LE people should be allowed their own clans, and finally their should be an alternative to the PvP part of every epic.
I don't see the problem with that. And non pvpers simply CANNOT complain about such a system. The LE, however, should be a choice for people who are hardcore about not wanting pvp. I don't think it should be a "let me take a break" tool.
they'd keep me as a customer for a very, very long time.
Originally posted by ServeX
Well said, completely agree 100%.
SD is where the parties at!
For awhile I disagreed with stuff like that - not so much of late.
It doesn't hurt at all.
yea we should start a petition for LE users to get a 5th slot restricted to the LE only, and epics should have an alternative way to do them for LE users without having to pk a runner (requires taking out LE)
I just had an RP idea.. ok this is an old idea but i'd bring it up agian...
for RP purposes... only let people who are CA-friendly factions able to start with the LE... and only those who are CA-neutral can implant them if they get one (cuz they dont start with one as they're not CA friendly)... hell its a law enforcer... if your not with the government, then you dunt get government toys... if your neutral, the government still wont give u toys but you can use em if u want... then if your against the government, you shouldnt be using one in the first place... then make the CA-friendly epics have non-pvp quests as options, same for CA neutral faction epics... but for hostile CA factions PVP is a must.
just had to get that out.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 07:53
Originally posted by mdares
I just had an RP idea.. ok this is an old idea but i'd bring it up agian...
for RP purposes... only let people who are CA-friendly factions able to start with the LE... and only those who are CA-neutral can implant them if they get one (cuz they dont start with one as they're not CA friendly)... hell its a law enforcer... if your not with the government, then you dunt get government toys... if your neutral, the government still wont give u toys but you can use em if u want... then if your against the government, you shouldnt be using one in the first place... then make the CA-friendly epics have non-pvp quests as options, same for CA neutral faction epics... but for hostile CA factions PVP is a must.
just had to get that out.
Actually that makes sense. But the problem is, some things are done out of game balance and can't always have a perfect rp explanation. So if we take yours, then why aren't TG/BD shot by copbots and automatically have red SL since they are known as criminals to CA. SL is basically NCPD sympathy. etc....
So meh. :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Actually that makes sense. But the problem is, some things are done out of game balance and can't always have a perfect rp explanation. So if we take yours, then why aren't TG/BD shot by copbots and automatically have red SL since they are known as criminals to CA. SL is basically NCPD sympathy. etc....
So meh. :p
good point... I say we remove SL all together.. and have eveyrthigbn go by the fucked up f6... well ok thats not a good idea either..
i say we scrap f6 and make a none-fucked up one... then do away with SL and instead have a bounty type thing offered by each faction; so that if you "offend" a faction you lose the equivalent of SL but to that faction alone. Then if people take missions from the faction, they can hunt down the offender and get money/exp from the faction in question. That way, poeple cant arbitrarily kill poeple (tho they probably still will... just like now with SL system in place) as people in the faction that they kill will be hunting down the pkr for cash and exp...
and keep cops but make em shoot anti-CA factions on 3rd warning... and since that IS happening with BDOY i dunt see y the rest of my idea cant work. :D
sd's ideas could work nicely...add a slot that only the le can go into...and for le clans...im kinda like, eh...about that...but it might be alright...as long as the whole clan has le's in...and the le's cant be removed while in-clan...but i think we'd start seeing le greifers that'll start running into hunting zones as a clan...like at mc5...and you wouldnt be able to do anything about it, you'd have to compete with them the whole time...and the thing is...just becuz people have their le's in and refuse to pvp...doesnt mean that they arent assholes...or they're completely nice people...i actually find that alot of le'd runners are worse then pk'ers....
anti-pk people get pk'ed...and they dm the person that killed them and talk shit with them...and for some reason ONLY the pk'ers are stereotyped for being the ones who are assholes and are the shit-talkers...
Jake Cutter
10-03-04, 08:08
You may have a point there about LE players griefing.
But I have seen "mob hogging" quite a bit lately, where the newbies are levelling at a particular spot, (the MB bunker for instance) and 99% of them have their LE in.
Along come the pk'ers...and since there are no runners to kill, they gank the mob. Not that they need to, they're capped of course. They just want to deny the mob to the newbies.
Griefing takes many forms, not just noob ganking.
LE'd players spying? Yeah, that happens. But not as frequently as harrassment of LE'd runners.
A friend of mine was levelling his tank in the wastelands...and a well-known PK'er came up to him, called him a coward, and used an expletive--and not in a roleplay context.
If you're PvP challenged, leave your LE in. But as Marx said, assholes will be assholes, in the game, and out of it.
Originally posted by gostly
sd's ideas could work nicely...add a slot that only the le can go into...and for le clans...im kinda like, eh...about that...but it might be alright...as long as the whole clan has le's in...and the le's cant be removed while in-clan...but i think we'd start seeing le greifers that'll start running into hunting zones as a clan...like at mc5...
Yeah, this was my chief complaint in regards to LE clans.
Originally posted by Jake Cutter
You may have a point there...but...I have seen "mob hogging" quite a bit lately.
Where the newbies are levelling at a particular spot, (the MB bunker for instance) and 99% of them have their LE in.
Along come the pk'ers...and since there are no runners to kill, they gank the mob. Not that they need to, they're capped of course. They just want to deny the mob to the newbies.
Griefing takes many forms, not just noob ganking.
Yeah, but hey, its a-ok because its a post-apoc dark cyberpunk game... right?
Right?
...
Take a look around you, there's cafes setup in via rosso do you see people sitting in the chairs and chatting and enjoying the nice environments and chatting about the exciting bustling world of NC?
I don't normally go to via rosso but I have sat with people before and chatted about things in different places. Sometimes we'd get away to secret areas and chat. Sorta funny going into the storage level under Biotech killing mutants in first room and using that for a secret meeting place. Or sitting in the weapons shop near Yo's in p1.
Sometimes I"ll go out joy riding. Find nice areas to look around. and as said if i want to PvP I can always go to neofrag . . Le users always have that option to PvP in NF. Which is great for upping those PvP skills for the day they might consider taking out their LE. Rares are great leveling tools. yea people use them for PvP but to a LE user they are just the next weapon up to level with. Why hunt after you've capped? To get another weapon and so on. To trade off parts. You help with part trading and helping people out.
I can see the PvP'rs joy of just going out and kill kill kill, but to me that gets old after a while. If you just enjoy PvP there are much better games suited for that sorta thing, is what I would like to say but I won't. Because Neocron is Neocron. There are a few types that play it and I think that's great. The only people who ag me are the Ahole types that purposely grief people and laff about it constantly. yea it's just a game but there are people who like to play it but if they can't play it cause they constantly go out to level and get killed that's just lame. And the slapping back in the LE is not such an option anymore since it got the lvl 30 limit slapped onto it.
sorry it doesn't get that old to me, i've been pking in games since 97 and it never gets old, the thought of killing somebody on the other end and knowing that i've made them go WTF irl makes me laugh and is my way of having fun. Is it too bad that it comes at the expense of somebody else's fun? I guess so, but when I pay $10 a month I'm paying to have fun, I could really care less if I've ruined somebody's day or their hours of work and dedication, the point is I'm having fun.
And don't tell me to play CS or UT because in those games death is expected and there literally is nothing else to do, in mmorpgs it isn't always expected and the consequences are far greater than simply respawning and finding the rocket launcher again.
Jake Cutter
10-03-04, 08:20
Originally posted by Twitch
sorry it doesn't get that old to me, i've been pking in games since 97 and it never gets old, the thought of killing somebody on the other end and knowing that i've made them go WTF irl makes me laugh and is my way of having fun. Is it too bad that it comes at the expense of somebody else's fun? I guess so, but when I pay $10 a month I'm paying to have fun, I could really care less if I've ruined somebody's day or their hours of work and dedication, the point is I'm having fun.
And don't tell me to play CS or UT because in those games death is expected and there literally is nothing else to do, in mmorpgs it isn't always expected and the consequences are far greater than simply respawning and finding the rocket launcher again.
That's a two-way street. They pay the same $10 a month as you do.
Originally posted by Jake Cutter
That's a two-way street. They pay the same $10 a month as you do.
that's nice, if they want they can keep their LE in or play something else. There's a billion other mmorpgs with little or no pvp, they can go play those, or deal with how shit is in this game.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 08:23
Originally posted by Jake Cutter
That's a two-way street. They pay the same $10 a month as you do.
Don't waste your time. Trust me.
Anyways, I'm not sure exactly what the problem is about LE groups coming into hunting spots and killing mobs. They kill it too fast leaving you with nothing, or vice versa. To me, there's nothing 1 group can do to the other that the other can't do back.
The only problem I see is mc5 should have more rooms.
It's no wonder with people like twitch being joe average for this game that it's population is stagnant. it's like the perfect breeding ground for these mosquitos, sucking the life out of it.
Brilliant idea telling people who enjoy the same game you do to piss off. You want bugs and lag and poor patches fixed? Those things aren't free. I keep wondering to myself if people like (god i can't believe I'm sayign this) SD were the norm, the game would probably have a much larger playerbase. it's people like you, twitch, that make this game what it is. I feel vindicated in knowing that people like you will continue to say "carebears" are ruining the game, when it's fucktards like you griefing people out that is slowly driving it into the ground.
Originally posted by Twitch
sorry it doesn't get that old to me, i've been pking in games since 97 and it never gets old, the thought of killing somebody on the other end and knowing that i've made them go WTF irl makes me laugh and is my way of having fun. Is it too bad that it comes at the expense of somebody else's fun? I guess so, but when I pay $10 a month I'm paying to have fun, I could really care less if I've ruined somebody's day or their hours of work and dedication, the point is I'm having fun.
So you're an egotistical elitist who has nothing better to do in life other than cause problems for others... On a virtual medium no doubt so as you will face no ill consequences!
Dancing with death, I see.
Originally posted by Marx
So you're an egotistical elitist who has nothing better to do in life other than cause problems for others... On a virtual medium no doubt so as you will face no ill consequences!
Dancing with death, I see.
The shorter definition is "Cowardly Degenerate"
It's funny to see how the people think, and all they think about is "PvP". Infact, this thinking is so deeply nested in their minds, that all their views on the game itself and the actions of other players are seen through this "PvP-O-Scope". Back in beta4 I was seeing a well known griefer with his "newbie" char (back then I never had LE in) and cried somthing like "griefer ahead!". He started to run (yes, I was high level) and trying to avoid me, although I never had the intentions of killing him (and actually never did anything, which would imply I really do). So I was minding my own business when like 5 minutes later I got a DM from him that I must be a n00b because I didn't catch him etc.pp. His line of thinking was so narrowminded, it was actually the first time I really wondered about this kind of people ...
Back to the present: My characters have LE in, because this wonderful F6-ganking-system is actually the worst thing KK brought into this game. I've got attacked so often from people I have never seen before and for no apparent reason (prolly red=dead, but sometimes also from "neutral" runners), that I put this LE back in. I just don't want to bother with that.
The big question comes now: Why I play this game, when I do not PvP? It's easy explained: I like this FPS style interface, show me a MMORPG where you interact like this with the game? I know of only one other so far (which is actually up and running), but I never tested it yet. I like the world of Neocron and what it is based on (post-apocalyptic cyberpunk, like a mixture of Fallout and Shadowrun, although its like 10% Fallout and 90% Shadowrun atm). I could go on with this, but who cares?
The next question which normally comes up, if I'm not bored without PvP. Actually I'm much less bored than all these PvP-dudes. Their characters are fully PvP-focused, which is nice if you wanna do PvP, but when there is nothing to fight you get bored incredibly fast. I don't have these problems, I can fight (yeah well, against mobs or against other players in Neofrag), I can tradeskill and I can help new players better than every non-LE could ever do (because the newbies have LE in), and that all with one and the same character. Plenty of things to do I would say :)
I wonder though why you guys worry about MC5? It has been said already, that it is stupid you have only this one place to get the highly sought after MC5 tech parts. Even worse now is the fact you have to camp this place for an even longer time as the drop rate plainly sucks. Now you enter MC5 and see LE players camping the commander ... and you get pissed because you can't kill them? *wonders* I can tell you one thing: even though they don't drop a belt, LE players have to fight with much more difficulties than non-LE-players could even imagine. I'm not going deeper into this, I reported the bugs to KK and I hope they fix them instead of making it even worse (the last patch killed of some leveling possibilities for LE users, many thanks KK ...).
"LE-clans" sounds stupid. Instead KK should just get access-control-lists running for apartments (including clan-apartments), this would allow shared apts and a finer grained control over who has access to the apartment(s) and their cabinets/boxes. I don't see any use in being a member of a LE-clan.
PS: My biggest question to all these PvP-dudes is: Would you play this game even if the game had a lame-ass setting? Just like now, but everything transformed into the high-fantasy-theme? Prolly not I assume, when there are no guns around ... hmm?
hi, how can "fuck tards" like myself and my clan start messing with "YOUR" part of the game f
By posting in threads that call for the deactivation of the LE in warzones, by asking for it to be disabled inside ops, by asking for any changes to the LE to make your lives easier.
The LE is fine the way it is right now. I can't do most Epics, but I get Epic items via trading (three Tangent Epic rifles, two M.OV.E.O.N.s, one PP Resistor, and a DoY Raygun so far, in addition to my Reveler). I can't be buffed by most of my server, but I just don't go caving with my Spy. And I get op bonuses, which is nice.
Just leave it alone. It's fine the way it is. If you don't like LE'ed runners at your op battles, report the runners to exploits@neocron.com and see what KK's stance is. If they say it's ok, then you should learn to deal. It's not like half the clans don't use TS anyway, and if you remember way, way back, the original intent of NC was to prevent the use of any third-party communication tools that would allow players to bypass the in-game comms...
Brilliant idea telling people who enjoy the same game you do to piss off. You want bugs and lag and poor patches fixed? Those things aren't free. I keep wondering to myself if people like (god i can't believe I'm sayign this) SD were the norm, the game would probably have a much larger playerbase. it's people like you, twitch, that make this game what it is. I feel vindicated in knowing that people like you will continue to say "carebears" are ruining the game, when it's fucktards like you griefing people out that is slowly driving it into the ground.
ffs...quit saying that pk'ers ruin the game...i never played ultima online...but from what i understand(atleast what i comprehend from what ive heard)...the game used to have great pvp rules...they got changed...and the game went into a downfall...
due to "carebears"...well i dunno...but obviously somethin changed in the pvp to make people go "fuck this" and leave the game...now if "carebears" keep on and on about pk'ers and trying to give them harder punishments for pvp'ing...i would honestly see this game going into a downfall...
It actually funny that some of the more vocal PvPers are so griefed by us LE users. When you think about it there is always a chance that a LE'ed person will at some point remove the LE to join in the "action" whether it be OP battles or joining a clan to support their faction. What i find discouraging is that more community members don't realize that allowing your minority of griefers to chase away potential future targets is seriously hurting YOUR game. Telling people who have an LE in to go play something else is one of the most moronic sales pitches i've ever heard to increase the user base.
I guess most of us get bored to death and stop playing.
At least that's the case for me.
Originally posted by gostly
ffs...quit saying that pk'ers ruin the game...i never played ultima online...but from what i understand(atleast what i comprehend from what ive heard)...the game used to have great pvp rules...they got changed...and the game went into a downfall...
due to "carebears"...well i dunno...but obviously somethin changed in the pvp to make people go "fuck this" and leave the game...now if "carebears" keep on and on about pk'ers and trying to give them harder punishments for pvp'ing...i would honestly see this game going into a downfall...
Actually, if you look at subscriber numbers (I love this arguemnt, because I was THERE) the took a sharp nosedive prior to the "carebearing" of UO, and right after the shards were put in without PvP, and PvP was toned down, about 70% of cancelled (well, the numbers really, not sure if they were reactivations, or new people that finally came in) player numbers were back, and on the PvP safe servers! The game continued to be successful untill, well, it got too old.
hold no misconceptions, there's lots of sites out there that still host the numbers, the game got MORE popular when the griefing was taken out.
fucktards tend to be the ones that drive players (new and old) away with their anti-social behaviour, and in turn kill games. us "carebears" try to help the new (and old) players and encourage them to continue on.
and of course there is a middle ground aside from fucktards and "carebears" but I think the fucktards outnumber them.
I guess most of us get bored to death and stop playing.
At least that's the case for me.
that's what i would kinda expect from these people that only fight mobs and tradeskill...
lets run down the tradeskill fun factor...
researching - 0% fun
repairing - 0% fun
poking - 0% fun
barter - yea maybe...cant be much tho...only fun factor in this would be having to chat with other players
constructing - atleast i can see some kind of real fun factor in this
and killing mobs is fun?...you guys really must be casual players that might log on once every few days...or once a day for like an hour...or maybe if you were somewhat new to the game...i could see how mob hunting might be fun...but to do it day in and out...just glad no one has put out any videos of them hunting mobs...cuz i'd be bored to death
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 09:02
Originally posted by brackk
Telling people who have an LE in to go play something else is one of the most moronic sales pitches i've ever heard to increase the user base.
Because they don't want more people, they want more targets. And if you have LE in.......
Originally posted by Spex
I don't see any use in being a member of a LE-clan.
Because the buddy system is inadequate for communication?
:confused:
Originally posted by gostly
ffs...quit saying that pk'ers ruin the game...i never played ultima online...but from what i understand(atleast what i comprehend from what ive heard)...the game used to have great pvp rules...they got changed...and the game went into a downfall...
due to "carebears"...well i dunno...but obviously somethin changed in the pvp to make people go "fuck this" and leave the game...now if "carebears" keep on and on about pk'ers and trying to give them harder punishments for pvp'ing...i would honestly see this game going into a downfall...
PvP was fine in UO(except for some class imbalances :p). It was PKing that was fucked over. You could declare war on people if you're in a guild, and if you accept(which 95% of them did o_O) there was NP.
I never EVER had a shortage of PvP(like I do with NC sometimes due to low pop) or was ever unsatisfied with the amount of PvP. I attack people who were grey(commited crimes) and yellow people(guild/faction enemies). And trust me, they were much more yellow people than ALL of one NC server put together.
The problem was PKing rules. They were wayyyyy too harsh. I mean you got a 20% statloss(sometimes higher) on every death. FFS. That's insane. That's why most pker usually just made throwaway chars to delete after they die. Only a few actually stayed with their char. It was like 8 hours you had to wait off for every 1 person you killed, to avoid statloss. After 5 kills that is.
Omg insane.
TO me, what messed things up was trammel being introduced. I really saw no need to introduce another damn world with a different ruleset. :rolleyes:
That's what made felucca a barren wasteland, and is what started to kill my enjoyment of the game.
I had a point somewhere, i forgot it now.
Another thing. I rarely see an LE or "carebear" call for harsher penalties to PvP. I mainly see an LE or "carebear" call for harsher penalties to noob killing. Which I agree with.
The whole system is messed up. :p
Originally posted by Mattimeo
The game continued to be successful untill, well, it got too old.
What does that mean? Was UO "cancelled" or something?
And what do you mean PvP SERVERS? Did they change it so that now you had to go to a PvP server?
Splain lucy.
masterguyver
10-03-04, 09:05
Originally posted by gostly
cuz i am honestly wondering what people that have no intentions of pvp'ing (the pvp-challenged) do in neocron?...and im talking about the completely anti-pvp people...the ones that just sit around in plaza using neocron as a chat room...
helping noobs/tradeskilling/chatting/hunting...hmm and no pvp....i still dont understand why anyone that wants nuthin to do with pvp is still in neocron...it makes no sense at all...
if this was a normal mmorpg...like other games that actually show your armor and have extremly rare things in the game that you can show off...i can somewhat understand why their's pvp-challenged people in those types of games that want nuthin to do with pvp...
but in a game where everyone uses rare weapons against each other...and the only armor that shows is powerarmor which is a default prototype/color...i just cant understand it...
personally...i will never stay in a game where their's no pvp...or it's not a big interest...to me their's no point in leveling...their's no point in paying a monthly fee, i mean shit if you wanna use the game as an enhanced aol chat room...sure go ahead...i heard everquest 2 has places to go and read your poetry...
personaly i play becouse I can see the beauty of neocron beyond the pvp mess.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Point me to the game thats just like neocron, that IS neocron, without you idiots. Please, I want to play this game.
called faces of mankind. fps like neocron, futuristic like neocron, not pvp orented like neocron. already signed up for beta.
Originally posted by petek480
Yes, becuase there isn't really anything else then pvp. All the other games have far better leveling systems. Have better tradeskill systems. They have everything better except pvp, but you dont' like pvp so I don't know why you don't just play the game that'll give you more of what you want.
actualy neocron has the best traidskill system i have ever seen.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
IMO their should be a 5th brain slot JUST for LE.
LE people should be allowed their own clans, and finally their should be an alternative to the PvP part of every epic.
true
Originally posted by masterguyver
personaly i play becouse I can see the beauty of neocron beyond the pvp mess.
Didn't you quit?
:confused:
called faces of mankind. fps like neocron, futuristic like neocron, not pvp orented like neocron. already signed up for beta.
Don't worry, it'll have rampant PKing too. If you don't think so, you're a nearsighted fool.
SD, if you see it like that, then I have to tell you, that one more channel and only with a VERY selected base of players doesn't help me at all. If you get like 4 DMs from 4 different players almost like in an instant, then you certainly need a different chat system (and LE-clans won't help in that matter at all). But that's a topic on its own I think :)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What does that mean? Was UO "cancelled" or something?
And what do you mean PvP SERVERS? Did they change it so that now you had to go to a PvP server?
Splain lucy.
I had this whole big thing typed out then when I hit post is crapped out on me, so let me paraphrase where I come off looking alot dumber on the subject than I really am
my UO experiance ground to a significant halt a few months after Trammel, mainly due to EQitis.
I know the numbers because I did a sociology project on it.
and UO is still "successful" but I meant in the context of most of it's playerbase has moved on.
Originally posted by Marx
Don't worry, it'll have rampant PKing too. If you don't think so, you're a nearsighted fool.
that and it's not out yet, I don't see FoMK going very far.
masterguyver
10-03-04, 09:14
Originally posted by Marx
Didn't you quit?
:confused:
Don't worry, it'll have rampant PKing too. If you don't think so, you're a nearsighted fool.
1. only the nice part of me.
2. sence it has been said it will not be based around pvp (like neocron) you can play all of the game without being part of the pvp group. so only they will have to deal with them.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
It's no wonder with people like twitch being joe average for this game that it's population is stagnant. it's like the perfect breeding ground for these mosquitos, sucking the life out of it.
hi, the reason why the pop count is so low is because of a shitty publisher, were you even around for the north american release? it was delayed countless times and even when it did come out it was very hard to find in stores. i love how you make it sound like there was like thousands of people playing and the big mean pvpers bullied everybody out. shitty reviews of a game filled with bugs didn't help much either.
and please continue with the real life insults, it's quite funny to hear how I'm a "cowardly degenerate" or an anti social angry teenager taking out my anger in a video game lolllzlz! I'm glad to hear you've gathered so much data on me and can make such presumptions.
Originally posted by masterguyver
2. sence it has been said it will not be based around pvp (like neocron) you can play all of the game without being part of the pvp group. so only they will have to deal with them.
Well, all the ads I've seen have chocked it up as: 'Real Skills'...
I already know that a vast majority of FPS junkies from another forum I frequent are waiting for it with baited breath...
"FINAZLY, A MMOZ I WIL BE GUD AT,1 ROKSDLGJAM!11"
All I'm saying is watch out - programmers can't program fellow players.
Originally posted by Twitch
hi, the reason why the pop count is so low is because of a shitty publisher, were you even around for the north american release? it was delayed countless times and even when it did come out it was very hard to find in stores. i love how you make it sound like there was like thousands of people playing and the big mean pvpers bullied everybody out. shitty reviews of a game filled with bugs didn't help much either.
and please continue with the real life insults, it's quite funny to hear how I'm a "cowardly degenerate" or an anti social angry teenager taking out my anger in a video game lolllzlz! I'm glad to hear you've gathered so much data on me and can make such presumptions.
You'd be surprised exactly how many people fucktards like you have driven out. when people like me leave this game (or even still play it in my case) they tell friends the horrors, who in turn tell their friends the horrors, and so on and so on. It wasn't JUST poor advertising that hurt this game, it was poor advertising and awful word of mouth. If it was JUST difficulty in finding the box, people that were intrested could have gotten the download version. I don't know how many people here visit other boards, but neocron is a bit of a joke when mentioned around other MMOs.
and I was just clarifying for Marx that he could use less typing by breaking down his analysis of you to "cowardly degenerate". my opinion of you as a human being is much, much lower.
actualy neocron has the best traidskill system i have ever seen.
cant believe someone actually said that ;\
have you not tryed other mmorpg's?...most craft systems in other mmog's are more complex...swg has a good craft system...horizons supposedly has a great craft system, actually that's almost the main purpose in the game...i tryed it...found out no pvp...and uninstalled it...i did try crafting in it tho...it's pretty kool...but im not big on tradeskilling...FFXI, well i dunno i bought that and leveled for a couple weeks...before the free month was over i canceled...leveling was fun for the days that i did it...and then it just seemed to be repetitive and was starting to require me to have a team to level...which i really dont enjoy having to rely on a team just to level up...plus their was no pvp...
im not one that enjoys doing quests...i find them as boring run-arounds...so other mmog's just dont do it for me...neocron's pvp is what keeps me around...as it keeps many others around too...i still find it odd some of you saying that neocron's pvp is only a small amount of what this game is...the way i see it...it's a huge part of the game
also...fomk will suck horribly...the pvp will be shit...the game doesnt even look good graphically...the trailer for the game was totally shit...didnt impress me or alot of other people at all...but we'll see...:rolleyes:
I can't see playing Neocron without engaging in any PvP, it's pretty much all you can do when capped.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
I can't see playing Neocron without engaging in any PvP, it's pretty much all you can do when capped.
You still need to knock Shujin up and have that baby.
Stop slacking, you're capped now - you're supposed to be reliable.
called faces of mankind. fps like neocron, futuristic like neocron, not pvp orented like neocron. already signed up for beta
I don't think that's a good choice since
1. you haven't played it . . it could be complete crap
2. it's not even released. Give a released game choice . . . (what? i can't hear you.)
I can't see playing Neocron without engaging in any PvP, it's pretty much all you can do when capped
that's when capped or getting up there. I enjoy the getting there tread so I can always reroll or make a new character to try something different . . . like a melee spy lol
Originally posted by Mattimeo
You'd be surprised exactly how many people fucktards like you have driven out. when people like me leave this game (or even still play it in my case) they tell friends the horrors, who in turn tell their friends the horrors, and so on and so on. It wasn't JUST poor advertising that hurt this game, it was poor advertising and awful word of mouth. If it was JUST difficulty in finding the box, people that were intrested could have gotten the download version. I don't know how many people here visit other boards, but neocron is a bit of a joke when mentioned around other MMOs.
and I was just clarifying for Marx that he could use less typing by breaking down his analysis of you to "cowardly degenerate". my opinion of you as a human being is much, much lower.
Yeah ok I'm sure the amount of people crying about pvp is in the thousands. The downloaded version wasn't available until long after the game was released, by then reviews were made, no more copies were being sent to shelves.
Again thanks for the real life presumptions, you don't know a fucking thing about me in real life. My actions in an mmorpg have absolutely nothing to do with who I am in the real world. So please, lets hear how I must be an angry 14 year old who gets picked on at school and I have nothing better to do except take out my anger on everybody and I have anger problems and will never get laid etc, I've heard it a thousand times from carebears who think they can sum it up, so please have a go.
Originally posted by amfest
I enjoy the getting there tread so I can always reroll or make a new character to try something different . . . like a melee spy lol
im so sure people want to buy a game so they can go over the same annoying treadmill as they do in EQ just to get to cap only to do it all over again. why in the fuck would you make a melee spy when that's clearly not what the class is intended to do?
Originally posted by amfest
that's when capped or getting up there. I enjoy the getting there tread so I can always reroll or make a new character to try something different . . . like a melee spy lol
Ack, I don't consider re-rolling fun. I'd rather start up four characters on Saturn or something, but even though leveling is easy, I still hate it, then getting all the uber equipment takes some time.
Unlike other MMO's, the sole reason to even level is to PvP when capped. What's the point of leveling then just re-rolling and doing it over again?
Gostly, that sig cracks me up! :D
Originally posted by Twitch
Yeah ok I'm sure the amount of people crying about pvp is in the thousands. The downloaded version wasn't available until long after the game was released, by then reviews were made, no more copies were being sent to shelves.
Again thanks for the real life presumptions, you don't know a fucking thing about me in real life. My actions in an mmorpg have absolutely nothing to do with who I am in the real world. So please, lets hear how I must be an angry 14 year old who gets picked on at school and I have nothing better to do except take out my anger on everybody and I have anger problems and will never get laid etc, I've heard it a thousand times from carebears who think they can sum it up, so please have a go.
You've backed yourself into a corner here. The reviews were out when the download version hit, and still few people took the game. you see what this says right? but I do so enjoy when someone else proves my point.
and, again I'll remind you I don't need to say my opinion of you here, I have one, but dragging it up on a forum where we're (some semblance of) debating core mechanics of the game hardly seems useful. Especially if hearing it thousands of times has failed to sink the message in.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
Unlike other MMO's, the sole reason to even level is to PvP when capped. What's the point of leveling then just re-rolling and doing it over again?
for me, I like seeing and trying different parts of the game, that way I have experiance in all kinds of different aspects.
I enjoy trying new things, and re-rolling a new character as a class I've never tried before, to me, is alot of fun.
Originally posted by Twitch
As for what I do in this game that isn't PVP it's usually listening to people harassing me over the trade channel calling me insults (which i thrive off of) or trading for parts/rares, both of which point to or are for the purpose of what will be more PVP.
Wow man you must be thriving all over the place now
Originally posted by Mattimeo
for me, I like seeing and trying different parts of the game, that way I have experiance in all kinds of different aspects.
I enjoy trying new things, and re-rolling a new character as a class I've never tried before, to me, is alot of fun.
Yeah, this is cool, but what do you do when you cap that person? Do you just delete all your hard work, or just leave him there?
There's only end game element to Neocron, and that's PvP (the best I might add). Does anyone pay $10 a month to chat in Plaza 1 or pure tradeskill?
. why in the fuck would you make a melee spy when that's clearly not what the class is intended to do?
it's my fun. and what's wrong with making a non typical character if i feel like doing it and trying to make it work? hmm? Is there something wrong with it. I can gain str . . i can use the melee weapons . . I just can't get the highest weapons so that makes it not what they are intended to do? Maybe I don't want to be profient in it. It's not a major combat oriented character *gasp!* would it help if i said that my int goes to construction and research *omg i'm gimped cause I"m not choosing one or the other* so what . . . so my dex goes to agility, TC and repair skill. I have fun and that's all that matters and because i have fun KK gets my money. I don't ask you to understand my fun just accept that I have it :P
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
Yeah, this is cool, but what do you do when you cap that person? Do you just delete all your hard work, or just leave him there?
There's only end game element to Neocron, and that's PvP (the best I might add). Does anyone pay $10 a month to chat in Plaza 1 or pure tradeskill?
All I do in Neocron is hunt mobs and chat with my friends.. ^-^
Originally posted by Mattimeo
You've backed yourself into a corner here. The reviews were out when the download version hit, and still few people took the game. you see what this says right? but I do so enjoy when someone else proves my point.
and, again I'll remind you I don't need to say my opinion of you here, I have one, but dragging it up on a forum where we're (some semblance of) debating core mechanics of the game hardly seems useful. Especially if hearing it thousands of times has failed to sink the message in.
show me reviews where it got a bad score for excessive pking and NOT bugs, lack of support, broken promises about shit to be added in the game, shitty avatar customization, no epics/quests, piss poor translation etc. please???
Why am I supposed to let the msg sink in about people being shallow and prejudiced enough to make presumptions about me in real life? If you're carebear as hell you don't hear me saying you're probably an excessively religious parent who took cbs to court for seeing janet jackson's breast on tv now do you?
Leave real life out of this, you look worse than anybody else carebear/griefer or not when you make such inaccurate and inappropriate presumptions about somebody based on their actions in a mmorpg or it's forum.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
Yeah, this is cool, but what do you do when you cap that person? Do you just delete all your hard work, or just leave him there?
There's only end game element to Neocron, and that's PvP (the best I might add). Does anyone pay $10 a month to chat in Plaza 1 or pure tradeskill?
I pay $20 a month to keep leveling new chars ;) about to be $30...
I guess when I finally make a complete set (when I'm done leveling all the classes I'd like to try) have all the rares I could want or need, I may just take my LE out, but more than likely I'll just..stop playing. Unless DOY brings a ton of new content for me to check out.
My personality type is explorer. I just like to see things. don't need to PvP for that. I dunno if anyone pays $10 a month to chat. that'd be kinda...sad...
I pay to play a game I enjoy.
Edit:
Originally posted by Twitch
show me reviews where it got a bad score for excessive pking and NOT bugs, lack of support, broken promises about shit to be added in the game, shitty avatar customization, no epics/quests, piss poor translation etc. please???
Why am I supposed to let the msg sink in about people being shallow and prejudiced enough to make presumptions about me in real life? If you're carebear as hell you don't hear me saying you're probably an excessively religious parent who took cbs to court for seeing janet jackson's breast on tv now do you?
Leave real life out of this, you look worse than anybody else carebear/griefer or not when you make such inaccurate and inappropriate presumptions about somebody based on their actions in a mmorpg or it's forum.
just go to MMORPG.com, lots of reviews denouing the PKers.
and, about leaving real life out of it, if you want it left out, why do you insist on trying to bait me? however, let me elaborate on the last little part here.
if you want me to draw a more accurate conclusion to how you are "in real life" I would either a) have to meet you and see other facets of your personality. or b) be demonstrated by you here, to have other facets to a personality
otherwise I can only base your value in my eyes as a human being by the behaviour you exibit here.
Originally posted by Kasumi
All I do in Neocron is hunt mobs and chat with my friends.. ^-^
Hey, whatever floats your boat.
For people like you, I wish KK would add in quests/new mobs/new dungeons/etc. Then playing PvE would be an alternative to PvP.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
Hey, whatever floats your boat.
For people like you, I wish KK would add in quests/new mobs/new dungeons/etc. Then playing PvE would be an alternative to PvP.
well BDOY is going to bring new content. new places to see. New mobs to hunt and such. OMG snow! Better Quests would be cool or even faction type missions. Like when safe zones are removed in the city running a dangerous package missions labeled as hard from somewhere in city to outzone or such but along the way NPCs spawn and attack you trying to stop you. Lil things like that would make some interesting city atmosphere.
I think a bunch of zones that have icy mountains would be l33t. Have new ice mobs with dungeons and new loot...although would have to add a resist cold/ice in CON. =/
Someone suggested of having an island connected with a bridge. When gliders are introduced have air attacks on OP's on the islands. :D
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 09:51
Or how about mini runs like stopping a gang of thugs(npcs) in the outzone. Similar to what you said.
There's so much LAND in the wastelands that is empty and unused. It could be used for so much.
I just think KK need to make the world bigger.
I remember playing beta, running around the city for the first time. I thought it was fricken huge. Then looking at the map and saying, "OMG, look how much land, and I'm only in one little square!!!"
Now, the world just seems too small. With DoY it will get bigger, but I mean completely another expansion pack adding in a bunch of new zones (islands / snow / underwater).
Originally posted by amfest
well BDOY is going to bring new content. new places to see. New mobs to hunt and such. OMG snow! Better Quests would be cool or even faction type missions. Like when safe zones are removed in the city running a dangerous package missions labeled as hard from somewhere in city to outzone or such but along the way NPCs spawn and attack you trying to stop you. Lil things like that would make some interesting city atmosphere.
That would be an EXTERMELY cool thing to have.
Originallt posted by Shadow Dancer
Or how about mini runs like stopping a gang of thugs(npcs) in the outzone. Similar to what you said.
There's so much LAND in the wastelands that is empty and unused. It could be used for so much.
this would also be very cool. the outzone needs some incentive, wastelands too.
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
I just think KK need to make the world bigger.
I remember playing beta, running around the city for the first time. I thought it was fricken huge. Then looking at the map and saying, "OMG, look how much land, and I'm only in one little square!!!"
Now, the world just seems too small. With DoY it will get bigger, but I mean completely another expansion pack adding in a bunch of new zones (islands / snow / underwater).
Imagine a world without zone lines.
Tiny!
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 09:56
Originally posted by Vid Gamer
I just think KK need to make the world bigger.
I remember playing beta, running around the city for the first time. I thought it was fricken huge. Then looking at the map and saying, "OMG, look how much land, and I'm only in one little square!!!"
Now, the world just seems too small. With DoY it will get bigger, but I mean completely another expansion pack adding in a bunch of new zones (islands / snow / underwater).
But there's still alot of unused land.
Although i do think their should be alot more underwater structures to explore.
Alot more. Maybe even having a diving or swimming skill. Or suit perhaps in place of PA.
Maybe have areas with radiation infestation. Could have a skill that prolongs the use of suits(like diving suits, hazmat suits, etc...) just like Deus Ex.
Ok ok ok, i'm getting carried away. :(
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
But there's still alot of unused land.
Although i do think their should be alot more underwater structures to explore.
Alot more. Maybe even having a diving or swimming skill. Or suit perhaps in place of PA.
Maybe have areas with radiation infestation. Could have a skill that prolongs the use of suits(like diving suits, hazmat suits, etc...) just like Deus Ex.
Ok ok ok, i'm getting carried away. :(
But it's a constructive carried away (although, off topic) lots of good ideas.
yea I'd like to see a zone or 3 that is just one big giant lake which is sorta radiocactive so swimming through it isn't adviseable. A Op on an island in the middle area with sniping towers raising up on it. to get to it there you'd have to fly to it or use an amphibious (speeling) mode transport that you can drive into the water and move across it at a slower pace.
This is one of the most sensible threads I think I've read on these forums.
Mattimeo, you are cool. You play your game as you wish. Respect to you and your standpoints/opinions.
For those who say Neocron is PvP only.... Well, to me it seems YOU are so IN PvP that you don't notice anything else.
That is basically the only explanation I can think of.
I don't PvP much, and I have 4 characters on pluto!
I will PvP more, but not 100%
Also, I do have a lot of online time.
So just because you aren't in PP every second of your online time you are pvp-challenged?
I swear, "pvp-challenged" is the most stupid thing I've heard since "Freedom fries". Seriously. I find the term offending even.
pvp-challenged... geesus lord.
late entering this thread but yeah gostly i completely agree
it absolutely blows my mind as to why people would bother leveling chars, obtaining items, etc in this game if they don't want to fight
whats the point? oh wait, there is none..the only reason to level a char or obtain items is so you can fight
i was bored of warbots a week after i started fighting them. same with firemobs. same shit over and voer and over and over again, never different.
ill never understand how people can be such simpletons that they actually enjoy mob hunting.
Originally posted by g0rt
late entering this thread but yeah gostly i completely agree
it absolutely blows my mind as to why people would bother leveling chars, obtaining items, etc in this game if they don't want to fight
whats the point? oh wait, there is none..the only reason to level a char or obtain items is so you can fight
i was bored of warbots a week after i started fighting them. same with firemobs. same shit over and voer and over and over again, never different.
ill never understand how people can be such simpletons that they actually enjoy mob hunting.
There is more to a game than just killing people.. If you playing this game for the PvP part of it then your are playing for the wrong reasons. It is about the whole social aspect of it, its fun to go out and hunt a few mobs with friends and do fun things and weird thing wouldnt normal do in real life.. ^-^
Originally posted by Kasumi
There is more to a game than just killing people.. If you playing this game for the PvP part of it then your are playing for the wrong reasons. It is about the whole social aspect of it, its fun to go out and hunt a few mobs with friends and do fun things and weird thing wouldnt normal do in real life.. ^-^
Ok I respect that.
But I play games to do what I cannot do in real life. And thats kill people, and be hated. I don't want to kill people in real life lol and I *CERTAINLY* don't want to be hated. But ingame I can do/be both.
I can socialise all I want in real life, and to be frank, I would rather go to the bar for some social activity then log into Neocron. But maybe thats just me.
Ok I respect that.
That's all anyone can ask for is some respect :)
you don't have to understand why we do it but that because we do it we enjoy it and pay our subscription fees :)
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 10:40
Originally posted by amfest
That's all anyone can ask for is some respect :)
If only you knew what was clan was like.
:p
I honestly don't see how people can have fun, after such a long time, still hunting mobs.
IT's the reason my apu is level 99 and i still cba to cap him. It's too excruciatingly boring to pvm. Monsters are so stupid. It's dull and repetitive. I wish you could gain xp by PvPing.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
If only you knew what was clan was like.
:p
I honestly don't see how people can have fun, after such a long time, still hunting mobs.
IT's the reason my apu is level 99 and i still cba to cap him. It's too excruciatingly boring to pvm. Monsters are so stupid. It's dull and repetitive. I wish you could gain xp by PvPing.
Man SD just spec some por into con temporarily, run a chaos cave run or two with medkits and barrels NO TEAM and you will haul in 10-15mill of xp easy.
APU's are probably the easiest thing in the game to level yo :p (with the exception of int being stupidly hard :rolleyes: )
Nightbrother
10-03-04, 10:43
Originally posted by g0rt
ill never understand how people can be such simpletons that they actually enjoy mob hunting.
People are VERY different, and I think you are the simpleton for automatically belittling what you even confess to not understanding. ;)
And yes, I love fighting and don't find mob hunting very fun anymore, except if I'm with a group of people I like.
Also, I resent the fact that you think people are unintelligent if they can enjoy aspects of NC that doesn't involve fighting. In some cases, that might even actually suggest intelligence.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 10:47
Originally posted by g0rt
APU's are probably the easiest thing in the game to level yo
no, wouldn't that be pes? :confused:
And don't tanks gain STR faster than monks gain psi? Not sure though.
Actually, BORING ASS leveling is the reason I don't have a capped spy. I have always wanted to try a capped spy. But I CANNOT(and my hats off to other people who have achieved this) level a spy past 85 dex. OH MY GOD! I can't, sorry. It's just horrible, it's madness. How the fuck does anyone do it?
It's not like UO, where I could cast magic anywhere while talking to friends and gain points.(or abuse 8x8 :p).
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
no, wouldn't that be pes? :confused:
And don't tanks gain STR faster than monks gain psi? Not sure though.
PEs are the quickest to CAP, not the quickest to level ;)
STR on tanks definately goes nowhere near a monks PSI, 98% of the monks playing htis game don't realise how fast psi gains because they have never done it out of a team, as a pure apu. a well placed barrel in a fully spawned leutie room can easily haul 300k-400k of exp. Normally you see about 50k of it, because its obsorbed by hte team. But if you cave without a team, its rediculous(sp? :p).....
Im telling you, rare monk barrels bring in 3 times more xp then any weapon in the game you can use against mobs, and when you're teamless you see the FULL benefits.
I agree with u shad i have tried twice but spies just bore the fuck outta me. Monks gain damn fast cept for int but tbh i've been lvling a tank recently and i have to say 83base str after 4 days ain't slow lvling and caves help u cap con a lot easier than monks cap int
im pvp challanged im a ppu so i tend to stand around canyon getting shot by everyone who's bored and doing stealth db's and parashocks.
also lots of ressurecting for the arena
untill u die again hinch. Die like the ppu i took out with fire beam muahahaha
that wasnt meh fs :) fire is the one thing i know doesnt hurt me :) its just everything else that does
Mattimeo
So I'm a fuck tard cos I enjoy PvP ?
This is how I play this is what I enjoy this is what the game was made for. I have tryed to find other games similar to this one none come close I tryed AO it has 6 main char skills and 40 subskills. But the PvP in it sucks because its kind of turn based no skill involved your char just fires at what you tell it too. There are many games out there which suits you with carebearish places in it where theres no PvP. If you enjoy creating characters so much why not making one that can fight and win its much more of a challenge IMO.
Originally posted by hinch
that wasnt meh fs :) fire is the one thing i know doesnt hurt me :) its just everything else that does
Lol no it was some nibbish TT ppu in battledome while i was hunting for parts to trade for my Dev that i have now :D gotta speak to don bout the rest of stuff i need. I had to call cesario in to hack the belts there was about 5 total lol
agh a neocron without pvp? :\
but but but... its the pvp that makes this game. its the only thing that makes it stand out from other mmo's. and its damn good too!
Its the one thing that make me put up with all the fre's and bad fps.
Even better you lvl damn fast... thank god for nc.
FFS people
stop talking what others SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do ok? It's simply none of your f**** business so stop it. Please.
Everyone plays for this game and has exactly the same rights, simply as it is. The fact that u are a part of some hypothethical majority DOES NOT GIVE U ANY F***** RIGHTS
understood?
this thread is pointless.
If you dont like PvP, you shouldnt play neocron, period. Theres just not enough pvm content to justify it.... lets make a compairison. EQ is for PvM. Its absolutely huge.... theres people who hav been pling every day for a year and havnt explored every corner of EQ. Neocron on the otherhand, can be easily and totaly explored in a month.... if not less. a pe can be capped by dedicated players in 3 days and even by the averge player in about 10 days.... tanks/apu/spy might take 2 months, but then its over. NO, I CANT understand how you can not do pvp in NC... theres hust nothing else to do.... they made a game for pvp and its called EQ..... literaly 100X more land to explore, monsters etc, and you have to form huge groups to defeat monsters.... theres nothing inNC 1 ppu and 1 tank cant beat... nothing. This is simply not a pvm game. The point is to level off mobs and then pvp. Thats what the creators envisioned.
Why is people converging all their efforts into the "There is not enough PvM content" argument?
As to say that the only alternative to PvP must be PvM?
What about...
...the players who want to tradeskill only.
...the players who play to meet friends.
...the players who play to RP only.
...the players who want to setup certain goals and reach them (e.g collect 1000 rareparts or 100 million credits etc etc)
...the list is longer...
Are you so obsessed with PvP that you cannot see more than one angle from which to percieve the game? I am baffled...
"If you don't like PvP you should not play NC".
What the diddeli doers do is that about... Now we have player dictated rules about who should play and how they should play?
Oh wait, this game should be for PvPers only, my mistake.. I am sorry, please tell us more on how others should play...
Originally posted by VetteroX
If you dont like PvP, you shouldnt play neocron, period. Theres just not enough pvm content to justify it.... lets make a compairison. EQ is for PvM. Its absolutely huge.... theres people who hav been pling every day for a year and havnt explored every corner of EQ. Neocron on the otherhand, can be easily and totaly explored in a month.... if not less. a pe can be capped by dedicated players in 3 days and even by the averge player in about 10 days.... tanks/apu/spy might take 2 months, but then its over. NO, I CANT understand how you can not do pvp in NC... theres hust nothing else to do.... they made a game for pvp and its called EQ..... literaly 100X more land to explore, monsters etc, and you have to form huge groups to defeat monsters.... theres nothing inNC 1 ppu and 1 tank cant beat... nothing. This is simply not a pvm game. The point is to level off mobs and then pvp. Thats what the creators envisioned.
If u don't like rp (chatting) all day u shouldn't play neocron, period.
AM I WRONG?
This is pointless, seems some people have serious problems with really basic abilities like reading and comprehension. Maybe it's the fault of education systems nowadays, hard to say...
Well, anyone else found my former post too hard for understanding?
maybe i should start posting something like
ME>U, I WANNA TALK SO CHAT>PVP STFU GO PLAY CUNTERSTRIKE!!! UGH UGH ME SMART...
really this is so pathetic it isn't even funny
therefore i'll stop
ghandisfury
10-03-04, 15:22
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
no, wouldn't that be pes? :confused:
No.....that would be PSIs. I can have your PSI core in your head in 6 hours from roling.....and capped (PSI) 6-7 hours after that.
They really need to make a faction that supports non-PvPers. These people should get the same items/implant slots that PvPers get.
Make a "carebear" faction that makes it exactly like an LE is installed. So you can't exploit the faction at OP wars, make it to where PvPers can "incapacitate" the said faction for a period of time (dunno, 5 minutes). I dunno, stupid idea, but there does need to be some way that non-PvPers can "enjoy the game thier way", and both sides can't be bothered by it.
Originally posted by gostly
cuz i am honestly wondering what people that have no intentions of pvp'ing (the pvp-challenged) do in neocron?...and im talking about the completely anti-pvp people...the ones that just sit around in plaza using neocron as a chat room...
Are you being facetious, or do you actually not know what non-pvp people do in Neocron?
1. They res and constr the weapons people use for PvP
2. They try to reach the same goals as PvPers do... capping their character... and they do it using the same methods as PvPers... killing mobs and running missions.
And very few JUST sit around Plaza chatting. Have you actually WATCHED the chat channels? More often than not its the PvPers on their bragging about owning each other.
I dont think I have ever seen a 0/2 player that has been in the game for months, just chatting, and not playing the game like everyone else.
Maybe if/when KK makes PvP *the* way to advance your character you can wonder what people do that dont PvP... but until then they do the same thing as YOU 95% of the time.
helping noobs/tradeskilling/chatting/hunting...hmm and no pvp....i still dont understand why anyone that wants nuthin to do with pvp is still in neocron...it makes no sense at all...What did you do to level your char? Did you PvP to gain more levels?
if this was a normal mmorpg...like other games that actually show your armor and have extremly rare things in the game that you can show off...i can somewhat understand why their's pvp-challenged people in those types of games that want nuthin to do with pvp...Thats funny you say that, because the PvPers wont even PvP unless they have a swirly to show off most of the time.
And playing a game that doesnt have PKing doesnt mean you are PvP challenged. You make a lot of assumptions.
but in a game where everyone uses rare weapons against each other...and the only armor that shows is powerarmor which is a default prototype/color...i just cant understand it...Yes, we know you cannot understand it.
But its simple.
Think about ALL of the time you have spent in Neocron. How much of it has ACTUALLY been when you were firing a weapon at another runner, and how much of it has been killing mobs, looking for pokes, having weapons ressed and built, etc.
This is a game where you dont even get a SINGLE experience point or a SINGLE credit for killing another runner... yet you wonder why people arent obsessed with PvP?
Maybe I should wonder why YOU are playing Neocron instead of a game where killing other players is actually rewarded.
personally...i will never stay in a game where their's no pvp...or it's not a big interest...to me their's no point in leveling...their's no point in paying a monthly fee, i mean shit if you wanna use the game as an enhanced aol chat room...sure go ahead...i heard everquest 2 has places to go and read your poetry... So there is no point in levelling my spy that constructs at TL 227? The spy that a lot of PvPers now use to build their rares so they can fight each other?
The SAME reasoning you use to dismiss people to Everquest is the SAME reasoning I can use to dismiss you to Quake/CS.
They want to level and chat and kill mobs, go to Everquest. You want to just kill people and only bother with levelling because you must level to kill people... go play Quake. Whats the difference?
There is no difference.
Neocron ALLOWS and MAKES IT EASY to go the WHOLE GAME without killing a single runner. Its impossible, though, to go the whole game ONLY killing runners.
You make the call.
Amen to that, Strych :D
One thing I've been wondering - and note that I'm not saying all you die hard PvP fans should be playing it - but what is the difference between the PvP aspect of this game and Planetside? I've played both games and from my experience, there are only two things that separates them:
1) Neocron's roleplaying elements (skills, custom items, trade skills etc)
2) Neocron can sometimes reward PvP with loot (which is usually of no use to the victor)
Ignoring the loot aspect of PvP, it is not the case that it is the addition of the RP elements that make this game more enjoyable? And if so, is it not possible that these elements have uses other than pure PvP?
@ Strych9. Fuckin nicely said man.
I actually couldnt have worded it half as well as that myself :D
Great post Strych9.
What a blatant troll the first post was o_O
What do LE'd players do? They have fun and enjoy the game. Why does this annoy PKers so much? Same answer.
Original monk
10-03-04, 16:52
intresting thread ya, to much to start so im not starting in the first place :P
myself i enjoy every aspect of neocron, i think a good fight is extremely fun yeah, especially when the 2 sides or 2 people are equel to eachother in strenght and skill. But getting that last part of a weapon or chip can give me atleast as much pleasure :)
or the feeling when you make a 5 slotter, or the feeling when you res parts and there it is: the mc5 part you where looking for for ages, or the devourerpart you been whining for on trade for 2 weeks now :)
or the feeling when you hit that last int or psi when leveling in the caves :)
the same as i can enjoy some real roleplay :) and real roleplay isnt setup, it yust happens and then its extreme fun :)
but i couldnt be a resser all day, or constructor, or powerleveler, or poker, or PKer or whatever: its the giant choise of things to do (certainly on a 4slot server) that makes it fun :)
its variety that brings pleasure in neocron :) why play everquest, the sims, britney's dancebeat, swg, rollercoaster tycoon, half-life, quake, sof or whatever when you can all play it in 1 game: Neocron :)
fulltime PKer is boring :/ same as fulltime tradeskiller :/
i want it all :) same reason why i like hybrids probably, ya can help youre team by healing em up and giving boosts, but ya can also help youre team with killing people, or damaging/hunting mobs, its all in the variety :)
anyways: altough it tastes good: ya dont eat burgers and fries every day right :)
edit: when i look at my post afterwords i notice that the 11 smiley's r@pe my post :/
Did not read entire thread, but I before I started pvping Neocron was great fun, it has everything other MMORPG had, places to explore, things to find out and lvling together is great fun, getting your next gun is the same ol cycle of MMORPG. I miss those things the sad truth is players get bbored when they are capped, you get to the point where the game you know it all, the game is very small. I think other games do better for a true RPG.
The thing about pvp is there is always someone better then you, so you always have a new target and pvping with other is great fun, losing your 3 slot CS after accidentally killing a shopkeeper in an opfight is not fun, greifing is one fun pvping is another. PVP is the area to explore affter you are capped, though I agree pvp becomes dull sometimes there needs to be more...
However I know people who don't pvp and get great fun, no matter how you don't PVP getting items is materialistic completion, if you say there is no point obtaining items because everything is for pvp, then nobody in AO or SWG would lvl in the first place it is part of the game, and in addition I consider myself "pvp challenged" I try hard but what use if I get 500 ping with 3M broadband in Hong Kong, because Neocron server sucks so much?
Some people suck at pvp due to computer or lag issues or don't want to be in it for various reason, leave them be.
also strych great post!! could'nt have said it myself ..pure ownage....
pvp IS a SMALL fraction of NEOCRON, think of opfights, how often do you have them? 30 mins in 6 hours of a weekend neocron playing? often its not even worth waiting for an op fight, you could easily play other MMORPGs and get more damn pvp out of it. ITs the server numbers IMO
Originally posted by LiL T
Mattimeo
So I'm a fuck tard cos I enjoy PvP ?
This is how I play this is what I enjoy this is what the game was made for. I have tryed to find other games similar to this one none come close I tryed AO it has 6 main char skills and 40 subskills. But the PvP in it sucks because its kind of turn based no skill involved your char just fires at what you tell it too. There are many games out there which suits you with carebearish places in it where theres no PvP. If you enjoy creating characters so much why not making one that can fight and win its much more of a challenge IMO.
No, you are only a fucktard if you think the game is ONLY PvP, and want the part of the game I enjoy (read as everything but removing the LE and PvPing) removed or made useless or impossible.
Originally posted by VetteroX
If you dont like PvP, you shouldnt play neocron, period. Theres just not enough pvm content to justify it.... lets make a compairison. EQ is for PvM. Its absolutely huge.... theres people who hav been pling every day for a year and havnt explored every corner of EQ. Neocron on the otherhand, can be easily and totaly explored in a month.... if not less. a pe can be capped by dedicated players in 3 days and even by the averge player in about 10 days.... tanks/apu/spy might take 2 months, but then its over. NO, I CANT understand how you can not do pvp in NC... theres hust nothing else to do.... they made a game for pvp and its called EQ..... literaly 100X more land to explore, monsters etc, and you have to form huge groups to defeat monsters.... theres nothing inNC 1 ppu and 1 tank cant beat... nothing. This is simply not a pvm game. The point is to level off mobs and then pvp. Thats what the creators envisioned.
Really? A month you say? I dunno, maybe if I didn't have a life, but i've been playing neocron for... about 6 months now and I still don't PvP and I still enjoy it. I find LOTS to do, just because your narrow mind can't see it, does not mean it does not exist. you also messed up here, I think you meant to say EQ was designed for PvM, regardless of how the game was designed, I pay for and quite enjoy playign the game as I do. I don't really see KK telling me to piss off, if I don't PvP they don't want my money.
Why do you think the LE was added long, long ago? or the penalties removes? People like me. the designers knew there would be people like me (and you've seen several of us sound off in this thread) we exist, we have fun, we pay for the game just like you do. Get off our backs.
Edit:
Also thank you Strych9 for saying alot of the stuff I've been too frustrated to say, and putting it so eloquently. you're 100% right.
strych9, nuthing but respect man, excellent post.
And the the dude that made the first post
like there isnt enough ganking going on in NC these days ....
I do agree with the part that there is nothing to do when you are capped, and Neocron is very easy to explore all, but Neocron is also very lacking in PvP when you want it.
Now why am I playing this game again?
oh well I suppose the few minutes of pure pvp I get is justifiable for all this shit :P Since when PvP does happen its when Neocron really shines. I think alot of people think this way.
superfresh
10-03-04, 17:14
Been away for a while, a month or so. Looks like the forum has the same old threads.
Who cares what anyone does in NC. True its the PvP that keeps it from being Everquest, but its the other people that keep it from being Unreal Tournament.
People spend too much time fussing over what everyone else does.
chill bitches it don't matter. NC's non pvp is alot different from other mmorpgs because of the weird feedom you can get in the game, you can always just mess around with setups and shit... Way better than EQ
angelsenior
10-03-04, 17:45
Good post strych and original monk completes it nicely.
Indeed, theres much to do in the game which doesnt involve pvp, and on the other hand the pvp-part gives its own incentives to play on.
Also, as everybody is different from each other, what someone doesnt think of as being fun could be fun to another person,
but the greatest fun comes from the diversity of things to do in the game.
As to the statement that pvp is the only thing to do when capped, its partially true; Its not because theres still a lot to do after capping, and it is because ONLY pvp has a small effect on the game environment (fight for OPs).
Thats mostly what is amiss in this game; roleplay which affect the environment/game/players (not necesarily involving pvp).
About LE; well, I take it out as soon as I can. If other people wanna keep it in, fine for me.
Yes, theres a chance of getting killed, but you can minimize this with some effort/attention
the only thing that troubles me is that LE players tend to stand aside of what is going on (the atmosphere, the challenge, the danger that PK/pvp brings), it tends to go against roleplay as enemy faction runners lvl side by side while I feel like 'damn he doesnt belong here but cant do a thing about it'.
Not that I would necesarily attack em if I could but still...
Also, in a game like this there must be competition between players, and the only real possibility of competition in this game is PVP, as an LE'd runner you put yourself aside/out of harms way of this competition (I dont see PK as competition though,unless maybe between same-level players).
I would like to see KK add other ways of competing besides pvp though (there ARE other possibilities available though but players dont seem to make much use or much fuss about it).
Thats about it I think,
Lotsa fun to ya all!
Are you being facetious, or do you actually not know what non-pvp people do in Neocron?
1. They res and constr the weapons people use for PvP
2. They try to reach the same goals as PvPers do... capping their character... and they do it using the same methods as PvPers... killing mobs and running missions.
And very few JUST sit around Plaza chatting. Have you actually WATCHED the chat channels? More often than not its the PvPers on their bragging about owning each other.
I dont think I have ever seen a 0/2 player that has been in the game for months, just chatting, and not playing the game like everyone else.
Maybe if/when KK makes PvP *the* way to advance your character you can wonder what people do that dont PvP... but until then they do the same thing as YOU 95% of the time.
ok...i thought maybe you wouldve comprehended better then this...
i never said noob chars sit around just talking and not leveling...it's the capped players that dont pvp that im trying to figure out...if you cap...what else is their left to do?...tradeskill?...and chat...yea that's it...sure you can go hunt for parts but most of the time by the time a player caps...he has the money/rares he needs...
What did you do to level your char? Did you PvP to gain more levels?
their's a difference from what i said as hunting...from leveling...when people hunt they dont do it for the xp...when people level they do it more for the xp
Thats funny you say that, because the PvPers wont even PvP unless they have a swirly to show off most of the time.
And playing a game that doesnt have PKing doesnt mean you are PvP challenged. You make a lot of assumptions.
see...their was no point in this becuz what i said right after you quote me explained it more....everyone uses rares against each other in neocron...does that happen in other mmog's?...no becuz things are more rare then things in neocron and they're much harder to come by...a swirly weapon is not hard to get
Yes, we know you cannot understand it.
But its simple.
Think about ALL of the time you have spent in Neocron. How much of it has ACTUALLY been when you were firing a weapon at another runner, and how much of it has been killing mobs, looking for pokes, having weapons ressed and built, etc.
This is a game where you dont even get a SINGLE experience point or a SINGLE credit for killing another runner... yet you wonder why people arent obsessed with PvP?
Maybe I should wonder why YOU are playing Neocron instead of a game where killing other players is actually rewarded.
alright, personally i try to be self-dependant...i have 2 accounts...so i have a poker/resser/constr/barter...i know not alot of people do that...but you're pretty bad on making assumptions too....and also you do gain xp in pvp...seems you havent been involved in any for a long time...you gain lots of con xp...and beleive it or not...you do gain str xp, it's alot less but yea you do gain xp in it...
So there is no point in levelling my spy that constructs at TL 227? The spy that a lot of PvPers now use to build their rares so they can fight each other?
The SAME reasoning you use to dismiss people to Everquest is the SAME reasoning I can use to dismiss you to Quake/CS.
They want to level and chat and kill mobs, go to Everquest. You want to just kill people and only bother with levelling because you must level to kill people... go play Quake. Whats the difference?
There is no difference.
Neocron ALLOWS and MAKES IT EASY to go the WHOLE GAME without killing a single runner. Its impossible, though, to go the whole game ONLY killing runners.
You make the call.
whatever, people that dont to pvp...hunt...sure if they're a tradeskiller they level...it's the capped chars im still wondering about...they cap and it's over...they sit in plaza...tradeskilling and chatting...i never said we all dont go through the same process of leveling...but most of us level to cap so we can pvp...becuz that is the end-game
Originally posted by Mattimeo
You'd be surprised exactly how many people fucktards like you have driven out. when people like me leave this game (or even still play it in my case) they tell friends the horrors, who in turn tell their friends the horrors, and so on and so on. It wasn't JUST poor advertising that hurt this game, it was poor advertising and awful word of mouth. If it was JUST difficulty in finding the box, people that were intrested could have gotten the download version. I don't know how many people here visit other boards, but neocron is a bit of a joke when mentioned around other MMOs.
and I was just clarifying for Marx that he could use less typing by breaking down his analysis of you to "cowardly degenerate". my opinion of you as a human being is much, much lower.
Same can be said about the pvp-challenged. You guys have ruined the only good thing about this game, pvp. Lets take the guards for example. You can't raid TH anymore because all the pvp-challenged didn't like it so they bitched. All the people that used to raid places like TH, MB, and TG can't really anymore. More people play this game for it's pvp and you want to know why? Because this game is more geared toward the pvp crowd. If people like leveling and doing tradeskills then they're better games out for that and neocorn couldnt' possibly compete with them. But unlike other games neocron has something different, it's pvp. And these "fucktards"(btw I love it how people call pkers immature yet they're the ones calling us fucktards:confused:) make up a good percentage of neocrons player base.
Originally posted by petek480
Same can be said about the pvp-challenged. You guys have ruined the only good thing about this game, pvp. Lets take the guards for example. You can't raid TH anymore because all the pvp-challenged didn't like it so they bitched. All the people that used to raid places like TH, MB, and TG can't really anymore. More people play this game for it's pvp and you want to know why? Because this game is more geared toward the pvp crowd. If people like leveling and doing tradeskills then they're better games out for that and neocorn couldnt' possibly compete with them. But unlike other games neocron has something different, it's pvp. And these "fucktards"(btw I love it how people call pkers immature yet they're the ones calling us fucktards:confused:) make up a good percentage of neocrons player base.
amen
i 100 % agree :)
You should redo your sig .... When the hooker shoots the bear instead of falling dead he can open his imaginary chest and expose his LE vest. Subsequently laughing himself to death.
Originally posted by petek480
Same can be said about the pvp-challenged. You guys have ruined the only good thing about this game, pvp. Lets take the guards for example. You can't raid TH anymore because all the pvp-challenged didn't like it so they bitched. All the people that used to raid places like TH, MB, and TG can't really anymore. More people play this game for it's pvp and you want to know why? Because this game is more geared toward the pvp crowd. If people like leveling and doing tradeskills then they're better games out for that and neocorn couldnt' possibly compete with them. But unlike other games neocron has something different, it's pvp. And these "fucktards"(btw I love it how people call pkers immature yet they're the ones calling us fucktards:confused:) make up a good percentage of neocrons player base.
But i thought the Dev envisioned a PvP game, why would they add things like guards to prevent something they want us doing? oh wait, thats right, they decided with enough encouragement from players that it was not wanted, and fixed it. also, I would HIGHLY doubt someone like me (who never takes the LE out) would even care about PKers in Techhaven. remember I opted out of PvP, it does nothing to effect me. I suggest you look to players WITHOUT their LE in to be the ones who "ruined" it, seeing as how they're the ones who were effected, and probably "Whined" the most.
As for fucktards, thats my personal word for you people, you want to use carebear, I'll use similar. and if this type of player is such a large percentage of the player base, then why isn't this gank-ocron?
Yup, us LE players sure ruined raiding, never effected me, will never effect me, I don't care, I don't whine. Look in your own ranks of non-LE'd players.
The thing I don't understand is, if PvP is what you enjoy, and think that it is all Neocron offers, why do you play Neocron? There are games (i.e. planetside, battlefield, counterstrike, etc...) that offer a pvp experience that is 100 times better. In terms of playability, community, balance, and fun. The reason that Neocron is fun for me is PvP for a reason. I am working for Biotech to ensure my companies survival, etc, etc. I quite often let reds go, because they do not impact my companies operations. The people who noob kill, red is dead, or just KoS anyone that isn't themselves have no reason for PvP. They would be better off playing another game, such as Battlefield, where they would never be able to complain that there is noone to kill and they are bored. And those are the people that ARE killing this game. I have tons of friends that I have tried to get to play Neocron. They try it out and love the way it plays, the atmosphere, the story, the tradeskilling, etc. And then they meet the griefers (which usually only takes about 15 minutes), and say hell no I am not going to play with such a bunch of immature little twits. And these are people who have done tons of PvP with me in FPS's and other MMOG's in a RP role. Publisher has absolutely nothing to do with it, word of mouth would suffice with a game like this if we could actually get people to stay.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
But i thought the Dev envisioned a PvP game, why would they add things like guards to prevent something they want us doing? oh wait, thats right, they decided with enough encouragement from players that it was not wanted, and fixed it. also, I would HIGHLY doubt someone like me (who never takes the LE out) would even care about PKers in Techhaven. remember I opted out of PvP, it does nothing to effect me. I suggest you look to players WITHOUT their LE in to be the ones who "ruined" it, seeing as how they're the ones who were effected, and probably "Whined" the most.
As for fucktards, thats my personal word for you people, you want to use carebear, I'll use similar. and if this type of player is such a large percentage of the player base, then why isn't this gank-ocron?
Yup, us LE players sure ruined raiding, never effected me, will never effect me, I don't care, I don't whine. Look in your own ranks of non-LE'd players.
If you want to keep your le in thats cool I don't care whatever you want to do. But I got the impression from your other posts that you keep your le in becuase of these so called "fucktards" so I thought you want what every other pvp-challenged player wants, the end of pvp.
Originally posted by petek480
If you want to keep your le in thats cool I don't care whatever you want to do. But I got the impression from your other posts that you keep your le in becuase of these so called "fucktards" so I thought you want what every other pvp-challenged player wants, the end of pvp.
I believe my very first post sums it up very nicely, I don't give a rats ass about PvP. go kill eachothers characters all you want, just leave me the hell out of it, and leave my part of the game alone. We can co-exist. Again I'll say it, when something like raiding being discouraged happens, it's not players like me that facilitate it, it's n00b gankers and the "whiners" without an LE in.
Originally posted by Spartan
word of mouth would suffice with a game like this if we could actually get people to stay.
Unfortunatly, most of that word of mouth is negative, and the few people that do come in are either ganked to quiting, harassed to quitting, or bored to quitting.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Unfortunatly, most of that word of mouth is negative, and the few people that do come in are either ganked to quiting, harassed to quitting, or bored to quitting.
Only thing you're right about is people are bored to quitting. Yes sure some people do get ganked and quit but they aren't important and I'll prove it.
Look at neocron at the beginning of retail, the player base was pretty good and all the servers were over 300. Most important thing to note is how it wasn't that carebearish.
Now take neocron now. The player base is low and half the servers struggle to get over 200 people on. Also note how much more carebearish this game is.
Now if people don't play this game for mostly pvp then I'd think it would be the other way around.
Originally posted by gostly
ok...i thought maybe you wouldve comprehended better then this...I am not the one that doesnt understand why people play Neocron. ;) :p
i never said noob chars sit around just talking and not leveling...it's the capped players that dont pvp that im trying to figure out...if you cap...what else is their left to do?...tradeskill?...and chat...yea that's it...sure you can go hunt for parts but most of the time by the time a player caps...he has the money/rares he needs...Now I went back and double checked, and not ONCE did you say you dont understand why capped chars dont PvP... specifically your first paragraph made no mention of that.
Had you said "Why dont capped chars PvP?" and I would have made a whole different post.
So reasons why capped players dont PvP:
1. Their runner isnt setup for PvP, like my constructor spy. Would you have a Spy that is setup for PvP build your rares? Neither would I.
2. They enjoy other aspects of the game. I know this is the hardest for some people to grasp, but people have fun helping other players in game. Accumulating wealth. Etc.
Why dont YOU explain to US why you play Neocron instead of CS or Quake 3 or UT.
USUALLY the answer is one of the following:
1. I like interacting with other players instead of AI
2. I like custom creating my character instead of everyone being the same
Now both of those reasons are the SAME reasons as why EVERYONE plays a game like Neocron.
Seriously- think about this:
PvPers can get PvP anywhere, in any number of games. Non-PvPers can only get an online cyberpunk atmosphere MMORPG in Neocron.
alright, personally i try to be self-dependant...i have 2 accounts...so i have a poker/resser/constr/barter...i know not alot of people do that...but you're pretty bad on making assumptions too....and also you do gain xp in pvp...seems you havent been involved in any for a long time...you gain lots of con xp...and beleive it or not...you do gain str xp, it's alot less but yea you do gain xp in it...What assumption did I make that was incorrect?
And yes, when you get hurt, you gain Str and Con. What I said was that you cannot advance in this game by ONLY killing other runners. Maybe a 0/2 runner can level con and str, but that wont help anyone but a newb tank advance a level or two (not to mention HOW UTTERLY FUN 0/2 COMBAT CAN BE).
The point is that in Neocron, you must engage in specifically NON-PVP activities to even think about participating in PvP.
whatever, people that dont to pvp...hunt...sure if they're a tradeskiller they level...it's the capped chars im still wondering about...they cap and it's over...they sit in plaza...tradeskilling and chatting...i never said we all dont go through the same process of leveling...but most of us level to cap so we can pvp...becuz that is the end-game Well now that we know you mean the capped chars, surely you cant REALLY wonder why a capped tradeskiller sits around and tradeskills.
My spy builds at 227. Do you REALLY think I sit around in Plaza 1 chatting? Sometimes I dont even log him because of all of the people wanting service (I dont advertise any more). This is not a brag- just an example of the fact that you can stay busy (servicing PvPers, no less) as a tradeskiller when capped. Am I hurting Neocron by building weapons and spells for the PvPers? Doubt it.
Now of course I doubt you are talking specifically about runners like me. Sure there may be capped runners that sit around and chat. I doubt anyone ONLY does that, but I am sure it happens.
And I would say most of the chars are not setup for PvP to begin with. Think about this- why do PvPers protect their setups? Because it takes forever to find one that works well in PvP. Yet you expect every capped runner tobe out fighting all of the time???? Its no fun fighting when you dont know how and arent very good and your runner isnt setup very well for PvP.
My point: PvP (and being good at it) takes a lot of practice and dedication, and setting up your character JUST to PvP. Hell, I tell someone my capped tank has some points in Vehicle and there is a good chance they will laugh and call me a noob. Is THAT the sort of thing I need to participate in? Where runners are mocked if they are not 100% devoted to PvP???
Neocron ALLOWS you to dedicate your player 100% to PvP. Then you can fight other players.
I am not sure what the harm is in having someone either not comfortable or not ready to PvP sitting in Plaza 1 chatting. It keeps server counts up, keeps money in KK's pocket, keeps a steady supply of tradeskillers ready to help YOU do YOUR fighting, and its not like there are PvPers waiting to get on the server but they cant because a tradeskiller has taken their spot.
Originally posted by petek480
If you want to keep your le in thats cool I don't care whatever you want to do. But I got the impression from your other posts that you keep your le in becuase of these so called "fucktards" so I thought you want what every other pvp-challenged player wants, the end of pvp. LOL. If you honestly thing that people that dont PvP all want the end of pvp, then that explains a lot about your mindset on this.
99% of people that dont PvP simply just dont want to PvP. They could care LESS about what the PvPers do and who is fighting over what op.
99% of the non-PvPers want coexistance, then dont want to remove pvp. :rolleyes:
Seriously: How many posts/whines do you see from non-PvPers asking 'why do people kill each other in Neocron???'
None. Its the PvPers that worry about the other group. Non-PvPers just want to be left alone, they dont want PvPers removed.
I suck at PvP, and it's a minor part of the game to me. (I suck at it because I care so little)
I play the game to run around plaza 2 talking to everyone. Thats about the main reason.
What part of that makes me a "simpleton"? I'm just chatty. ;)
I also like trading, and acheivment, while to a lesser extent, still more than PvP.
*edit*
Neocron is like a Dynamic MSN Messenger to me. I only enjoy PvP when it's with friends, and were doing it for a laugh while chatting. I prefere Dead Or Alive 3 for competition, and for the person to be in the room with me so I can rub it in. :p
Originally posted by Strych9
LOL. If you honestly thing that people that dont PvP all want the end of pvp, then that explains a lot about your mindset on this.
99% of people that dont PvP simply just dont want to PvP. They could care LESS about what the PvPers do and who is fighting over what op.
99% of the non-PvPers want coexistance, then dont want to remove pvp. :rolleyes:
Seriously: How many posts/whines do you see from non-PvPers asking 'why do people kill each other in Neocron???'
None. Its the PvPers that worry about the other group. Non-PvPers just want to be left alone, they dont want PvPers removed.
I understand that people that don't want to pvp don't want to have anything to do with pvp, but you got that little problem that Mattimeo says he hates which is that pvpers are forcing there gameplay on them, which isn't really true. An exampel like I mentioned before is the guards. The people that don't like to pvp didn't like to get killed bitched and whined until kk fucked the guards up making it so no one could raid anything. However, thats how it's suppose to be. You're suppose to be afraid whereever you go, not be able to go leveling anywhere and with everyone without worrying. Now maybe 99% of the non-pvpers do want to coexist but its in a game that doesn't have pvp.
Originally posted by petek480
I understand that people that don't want to pvp don't want to have anything to do with pvp, but you got that little problem that Mattimeo says he hates which is that pvpers are forcing there gameplay on them, which isn't really true. An exampel like I mentioned before is the guards. The people that don't like to pvp didn't like to get killed bitched and whined until kk fucked the guards up making it so no one could raid anything. However, thats how it's suppose to be. You're suppose to be afraid whereever you go, not be able to go leveling anywhere and with everyone without worrying. Now maybe 99% of the non-pvpers do want to coexist but its in a game that doesn't have pvp. Dont get me wrong Pete- I recognize that the game is pretty carebearish- remember, I am the one that has started polls asking for safeslots to be removed (lets talk about a dangerous cyberpunk world) only to see a lot of the PvPers insist they want to keep their precious rare prizes safe. Take a look at my sig to see what I am talking about. :)
But yes, in my mind, this game certainly does allow PvP, and if someone uses a LE (which remember ISNT what we are discussing really) then to an extent, then are forcing their play style on the players that PvP and dont use the LE... just like the PvPers force their play style when they gank newbs.
So I see it as two sided. Of course, the LE use is a more passive intrusion than the PKing is... but both styles interefere with each other.
The answer is respect and RP.
My thoughts:
1. Remove the LE. Players should NOT be able to hide behind the LE and avoid consequences of what they say or do.
I think you and everyone else that PvPs would agree with that.
2. PvP should be based on what people say and do. I.e. kills should have a RP reason behind them.
THAT is where the PvP crowd has a problem.
I really think that MOST of the LE users/no-PvPers would NEVER interefere with PvP or give a PvPer a reason to kill them. And if PvPers only killed people they had a reason to kill (Note: that is what separates Neocron from CS- motivation and RP for actions), then the game would be perfect.
BUT
As long as PvPers insist on killing players for no reason or at least for no RP reason, then you can COUNT on players opting out of the PvP scene altogether.
Neocron actualy is a pvp game, it was intended to be, but along the way it's been compromised. There was never supposed to be anything like the LE, if you dig in the forums some you could find a post by MJS saying this. MJS was also very much against protecting new players, with things like guards and sl loss in hunting zones. He only did it because they were losing too many new customers to ignore. You can't justify your existance by mechanisms in the game that support you. It's actualy the reverse, these things were put in game because non pvp'rs demanded the game be adjusted to allow them to play too. This isn't necessarily their fault, it's actualy kk's bad job at advertising nc accurately. They protrayed this game as something it's not. Neocron was shown as a game were you can do whatever you want, you could be an explorer, build stuff, be a hunter, collector, killer, etc. Everything suggested that Neocron supported many different gamestyles.
The truth is Neocron only supports PvP.
Everything else in the game is designed to support PvP. Tradeskillers exist to equip and patch up combat players. Hunters/Collectors exist to equip and trade with combat players. Leveling and people who help others leveling exist to help combat players cap so they can participate in combat. Everything is geared for combat. If you disagree, then explain why non combat functions in the game get the least attention from the devs for fixing. Why is tradeskilling so ridiculously boring? Why can't you raise int above 70 or so by pure tradeskill alone? Why do you hafta kill mobs as a tradeskiller? Why did ppu's hafta be given soul clusters so they can kill mobs too. I could go on and on with this. How about the closed grs? That's a pretty big slap in the face to those not interested in op wars.
Personaly I don't pvp much anymore, I'm part tradeskiller part gimped ppu part mob hunting hybrid. Only time I pvp is to ressurect someone or chase off a loser trying to gank ppl while hunting. So I'm not saying non pvp'rs shouldn't exist, I'm saying they shouldn't assume they have a right too exist. Non pvp'rs are an abberation and not really supported by the game.
Originally posted by Carinth
Neocron actualy is a pvp game, it was intended to be, but along the way it's been compromised. There was never supposed to be anything like the LE, if you dig in the forums some you could find a post by MJS saying this. MJS was also very much against protecting new players, with things like guards and sl loss in hunting zones. He only did it because they were losing too many new customers to ignore. You can't justify your existance by mechanisms in the game that support you. It's actualy the reverse, these things were put in game because non pvp'rs demanded the game be adjusted to allow them to play too. This isn't necessarily their fault, it's actualy kk's bad job at advertising nc accurately. They protrayed this game as something it's not. Neocron was shown as a game were you can do whatever you want, you could be an explorer, build stuff, be a hunter, collector, killer, etc. Everything suggested that Neocron supported many different gamestyles.Two things about this...
1. You can blame KK for advertising. No matter what they advertised, people would come and see that there are fun things to do that dont involve PvP, and would expect to do those things. Seriously- why hasnt any PvP action EVER given a reward in the game? If PvP kills gave experience, I think it would be much more intuitive that this game is different than EQ or most other MMORPGs. As it stands now, as I pointed out, you can do everything there is to do in the game just about without killing another runner yourself.
KK may have CLAIMED they wanted the game to be PvP centered... but they sure didnt take a lot of simple steps to make it that way.
Right now, Neocron is a normal MMORPG that simply allows full out PvP.
Wanna make it a PvP game? AT LEAST make PvP a viable way to advance.
2. You are right- its takes a LOT of money/guts to make a game the way you want it even if the players dont want it that way. If we assume that KK wants to stay in business, then if the changes they made where in response to player populations, then we certainly cant fault them for that.
But it brings up two ideas:
A. Maybe the online community isnt ready yet for a full out MMORPG that is PvP based?
B. Maybe you cannot have PvP that is infused with a MMORPG. At least here in the forums, its clear a lot of the PvP community could care less about the RP aspect of their actions.
The truth is Neocron only supports PvP. Everything else in the game is designed to support PvP. Tradeskillers exist to equip and patch up combat players. Hunters/Collectors exist to equip and trade with combat players. Leveling and people who help others leveling exist to help combat players cap so they can participate in combat. Everything is geared for combat.Clarification: everything is geared for combat yes, pvp combat no.
There is nothing special about PvP in Neocron (like I said, no bonus for killing another runner...and you GET a bonus for killing mobs).
EVERYTHING in Neocron is based around killing mobs/people. I dont see anything in place to encourage killing people over mobs right now (and its been that way since Beta, so dont try to blame that on carebears).
So yes, I agree- everything is either combat or in support of combat. Just not necessarily player vs player combat.
If you disagree, then explain why non combat functions in the game get the least attention from the devs for fixing. Why is tradeskilling so ridiculously boring? Why can't you raise int above 70 or so by pure tradeskill alone? Why do you hafta kill mobs as a tradeskiller? Why did ppu's hafta be given soul clusters so they can kill mobs too. I could go on and on with this. How about the closed grs? That's a pretty big slap in the face to those not interested in op wars.On the same token, how far can you advance a runner by killing other runners? Why are their chips that dont boost ANY combat skills? Why can you be basically removed from fucntioning in the game for killing other runners in places designed for hunting? Why is it so hard to survive as someone that only hunts other players? Why is it so hard to attack a base now?
For every reason you have supporting the idea that PvP is important, there are reasons why non-PvP is just as important.
I am not suggesting that this game is not based on combat. I am only saying that KK has gone out of their way to make it 100% viable to play the game and cap and do well and have fun without ever killing another runner. Yet it is 100% impossible to play this game by only killing other runners. That says quite a lot.
Maybe KK, at some point, had a pure PvP vision for Neocron, but it hasnt been anything close to that since Beta. And I think its flawed to use "well KK intended..." as any sort of argument in this discussion, and we can only look to what KK did as any sort of empirical information.
Personaly I don't pvp much anymore, I'm part tradeskiller part gimped ppu part mob hunting hybrid. Only time I pvp is to ressurect someone or chase off a loser trying to gank ppl while hunting. So I'm not saying non pvp'rs shouldn't exist, I'm saying they shouldn't assume they have a right too exist. Non pvp'rs are an abberation and not really supported by the game. I disagree. The game supports non-PvPers MUCH better than PvPers.
I think that is blatantly obvious. I named some things above... but here is a list. Things showing that non-PvP is not an abberation:
1. You start with an LE implanted
2. Safezones (will still have em in DOY, they arent gone... just shifted)
3. No experience for killing other runners
4. No reward of any kind for killing other runners
5. NEXT epic doesnt have any runner deaths involved
6. Weapons come about from non-combat means
Now I am sure you can bring up ways that PvP is supported, but no one is denying that. But I think its WAY off to say that non-PvP is an abberation.
So which would be easier in Neocron:
1. You are a player that enjoys talking with other players and helping newbs and building things. So you make a LE Droner/Constructor. You end up capping Int/Dex, and constructing at uber levels. You hang in P1 and build for people on request.
or
2. You are a player that wants to kill every player on the server, over and over. You level a PE and then just start killing, without regard of SL or faction.
Now which path is easier to do in the game right now?
So basically what you're saying is, because they had an original vision for the game, and then changed the game to accomdate my type of play, my playstyle is invalid because of the original vision which was changed to retain paying customers?
that's some intresting logic :wtf:
Originally posted by Mattimeo
So basically what you're saying is, because they had an original vision for the game, and then changed the game to accomdate my type of play, my playstyle is invalid because of the original vision which was changed to retain paying customers?
that's some intresting logic :wtf:
You mean the changes made with soul light that made people quit? Or maybe you mean the changes with the belt drops that made people quit? Or maybe the changes with the guards that made the game boring for some people so they quit? They're many more changes made to satisfy carebears but I'm not gonna waste my time naming them.
It's stuff like this why people don't like carebears. They bitch and whine to make the game better for them but actually just ruining it. Neocron was suppose to be a pvp game and carebears ruined it.
Originally posted by petek480
You mean the changes made with soul light that made people quit? Or maybe you mean the changes with the belt drops that made people quit? Or maybe the changes with the guards that made the game boring for some people so they quit? They're many more changes made to satisfy carebears but I'm not gonna waste my time naming them.
It's stuff like this why people don't like carebears. They bitch and whine to make the game better for them but actually just ruining it. Neocron was suppose to be a pvp game and carebears ruined it.
I've been playing the game for 3 weeks and i don't see a "ruined game" I'm really enjoying it so my advice to you is if you don't like the game don't let the door hit you in the ass.
Originally posted by petek480
You mean the changes made with soul light that made people quit? Or maybe you mean the changes with the belt drops that made people quit? Or maybe the changes with the guards that made the game boring for some people so they quit? They're many more changes made to satisfy carebears but I'm not gonna waste my time naming them.
It's stuff like this why people don't like carebears. They bitch and whine to make the game better for them but actually just ruining it. Neocron was suppose to be a pvp game and carebears ruined it.
Well really, I fail to see where an LE user like myself would have requested any of such things.
It can't have been alot of people, or more people than were leaving before the rules changes, right? KK is a buisness desinged around the concept of making money, no more no less. Looking at it from that standpoint, who ruined what game for whom?
if they change the game to support that kind of player, who is the game designed for then?
Ruining the game for one person may make it better for another, the majority determines which direction it goes in.
Originally posted by brackk
I've been playing the game for 3 weeks and i don't see a "ruined game" I'm really enjoying it so my advice to you is if you don't like the game don't let the door hit you in the ass.
Wait until you're capped.
Well really, I fail to see where an LE user like myself would have requested any of such things.
It can't have been alot of people, or more people than were leaving before the rules changes, right? KK is a buisness desinged around the concept of making money, no more no less. Looking at it from that standpoint, who ruined what game for whom?
if they change the game to support that kind of player, who is the game designed for then?
Ruining the game for one person may make it better for another, the majority determines which direction it goes in.
Businesses make mistakes and BDoY gonna hopefully fix it. In BDoY they're removing all safe zones making the game more hardcore. Btw why don't you go have yourself a look at the test server patchs. All the fixes are basically pvp fixes so I think it's pretty safe to say this game is more pvp then anything else.
Really? last I checked the current test server stuff was a revamping of the weapons TLs so that they were more spread across the board and did damage based on TL, while some changes are in the upper levels of said list, it looks more to me like they're making the lower-end game a bit more fun with more weapons options.
Since 90% of PvP is in the end game (and according to most people PvP is 100% of the endgame) this seems more like a change for the non-PvP aspects of the game.
or am I wrong?
Originally posted by petek480
Wait until you're capped.
Businesses make mistakes and BDoY gonna hopefully fix it. In BDoY they're removing all safe zones making the game more hardcore. Btw why don't you go have yourself a look at the test server patchs. All the fixes are basically pvp fixes so I think it's pretty safe to say this game is more pvp then anything else.
When (if i ever) get capped and im bored or don't like this game i will leave. BUT it is none of your business WHY i play this game and don't pvp yet. Also i will tell you this, listening to trade-nc and hearing you pvp'ers whine about who killed who without a ppu or who attacked XXX outpost with 5 when we only had 2 on is so fricking funny i sometimes loose concentration and stumble into a warbot titan.
Really? last I checked the current test server stuff was a revamping of the weapons TLs so that they were more spread across the board and did damage based on TL, while some changes are in the upper levels of said list, it looks more to me like they're making the lower-end game a bit more fun with more weapons options.
Since 90% of PvP is in the end game (and according to most people PvP is 100% of the endgame) this seems more like a change for the non-PvP aspects of the game.
or am I wrong?
weapons are being adjusted for dmg in pvp...they're trying to make pvp more balanced...which is why to test the weapons on ts, lupus wants you to go and test the dmg against a player...and not mobs...main reason is dmg against mobs isnt even half as important as against players...so yes you are wrong
Originally posted by Mattimeo
Really? last I checked the current test server stuff was a revamping of the weapons TLs so that they were more spread across the board and did damage based on TL, while some changes are in the upper levels of said list, it looks more to me like they're making the lower-end game a bit more fun with more weapons options.
Since 90% of PvP is in the end game (and according to most people PvP is 100% of the endgame) this seems more like a change for the non-PvP aspects of the game.
or am I wrong?
And what do you think people are gonna be doing with those new weapons? Yea sure people will have more weapons to pick when pvming but the main reasons according to lupus is to make the weapons more balanced so people don't have to worry about having all the best weapons to be any good.
@brackk - you think pvpers are funny to listen to you should kill a carebear and sit back and watch your dm. My favorite is when a carebear calls me names such as "fucktard" then tell me to grow up.
Originally posted by petek480
You mean the changes made with soul light that made people quit? Or maybe you mean the changes with the belt drops that made people quit? Or maybe the changes with the guards that made the game boring for some people so they quit? They're many more changes made to satisfy carebears but I'm not gonna waste my time naming them.
It's stuff like this why people don't like carebears. They bitch and whine to make the game better for them but actually just ruining it. Neocron was suppose to be a pvp game and carebears ruined it. Careful here. Watch who you are talking about-
We had this discussion before... it was the PKers that begged for protected belt drops. The newb that gets ganked isnt worried about getting another constructed gun from the A&W. Its the PK with his 5 slotted CS that doesnt want to lose his gun.
I made a poll, and the results were telling. The exact quote in my sig came from that discussion.
I think some of the people you associate with "PvPer" is actually what you describe above as a "carebear."
Not that would change anything what you say-
But basically EVERYONE that wants the game changed to be EASIER is a carebear. And that can and does INCLUDE the people that LIKE killing other players.
And another clarification- most carebears want SIMPLY to be left alone. Nothing more. If the PvPers spent their time actually attacking those LIKE THEMSELVES that want to fight... you wouldnt see ANY whining from carebears.
Take Cartel (just an example, nothing special about Cartel). There you have a group of PvPers... PKers mostly.. that LIKE KILLING. They like fighting. Yet they complain that CM, their enemy, doesnt want to fight them. They spend time insulting CM runners and the faction as a whole. Some new PKers come back to Neocron (like Insid Wolf) and decide that they too like to fight. They too like to kill other runners. So what do they do? Join Cartel, so they too can whine about not having opponents.
In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) if PvPers spent more time attacking people that WANT to fight... this game would be far less carebear than it is right now. If Vett would fight ezza, and have epic battles, everyone would be happy. Vett would have a challenge. Ezza would have a challenge. Newbs wouldnt be ganked. But instead, they fight along side each other, and then complain about a lack of worthy foes. So they get bored and gank newbs hoping to bring out capped alts.
Something to think about. I am not saying PvPers are responsible... BUT I am saying that the whines of the carebears ONLY come in response to what PvPers have done to them.
BDoY they're removing all safe zones making the game more hardcore.Nope, you will still have safe zones. It just wont be Plaza 1. Read the notes... bars/clubs and possibly faction HQs will be safezones. There WILL be safe zones... they are just moving them around, thats all.
Originally posted by Strych9
Nope, you will still have safe zones. It just wont be Plaza 1. Read the notes... bars/clubs and possibly faction HQs will be safezones. There WILL be safe zones... they are just moving them around, thats all.
Yes, I meant to say most of the safe zones will be removed.
Originally posted by petek480
And what do you think people are gonna be doing with those new weapons? Yea sure people will have more weapons to pick when pvming but the main reasons according to lupus is to make the weapons more balanced so people don't have to worry about having all the best weapons to be any good.
@brackk - you think pvpers are funny to listen to you should kill a carebear and sit back and watch your dm. My favorite is when a carebear calls me names such as "fucktard" then tell me to grow up.
So as an LE im not a "carebear" ? BTW feel free to come to pluto and blow up my vehicles or lead mobs to my body (droner) or whatever you want to grief me. I will try to make it easy for you to feel superior. DM me if you need to know where i am.
Originally posted by brackk
DM me if you need to know where i am.
Nah, it's ok. I like to actually work for my prey and find them myself. Besides you probably level at the chaos caves so it'll be easy.
Edit: and do you think after I kill you you can think up something original to dm with? I'm tired of all the "you're a n00b" "you can't kill me by yourself" "you're the reason why people quit" crap.
And to clarify, I have always been for a more dangerous Neocron, one less carebearish.
But
1. The PvPers dont seem to want it.
2. Up to this point, KK doesnt want it either.
Until those two groups come around and agree (maybe BDOY will change it) I am having a HARD time agreeing with anyone that says this game is clearly intended to be PvP only.
The only playstyle in Neocron that is in ANY way punished, and not at ALL rewarded, and could be called 'expensive' or 'hard', is the playstyle of the pure PvPer.
Think about it.
Stop clinging to what KK said in plan files 3 years ago, or what KK printed on their box. Look at the game mechanics, and then draw conclusions.
Originally posted by petek480
Nah, it's ok. I like to actually work for my prey and find them myself. Besides you probably level at the chaos caves so it'll be easy.
Edit: and do you think after I kill you you can think up something original to dm with? I'm tired of all the "you're a n00b" "you can't kill me by yourself" "you're the reason why people quit" crap.
Apparently your reading skills are not of the same quality as your player killing prowness. You won't kill me .... YOU can't kill me.... the most you can do is lead a mob to me.. SO like i say have at it.
Originally posted by brackk
Apparently your reading skills are not of the same quality as your player killing prowness. You won't kill me .... YOU can't kill me.... the most you can do is lead a mob to me.. SO like i say have at it.
And like I said please come up with something original to dm me with!!!
Originally posted by petek480
And like I said please come up with something original to dm me with!!!
What like gee pete bring me another mob xp is kinda slow with you pulling ?
Originally posted by brackk
What like gee pete bring me another mob xp is kinda slow with you pulling ?
Not at all.
This is really cool shall we let the **/15 s know your're gonna be tied up chasing me so they can level in aggie ?
Originally posted by brackk
This is really cool shall we let the **/15 s know your're gonna be tied up chasing me so they can level in aggie ?
Sure unless you level there and don't want me to find you o_O
Originally posted by brackk
Apparently your reading skills are not of the same quality as your player killing prowness. You won't kill me .... YOU can't kill me.... the most you can do is lead a mob to me.. SO like i say have at it.
Pete is actually pretty handy with that knife of his....
BTW if you're gonna call one of the best PPUs in this community a nub, you better have something more than your half arsed whining to back it up.
1. You start with an LE implanted
2. Safezones (will still have em in DOY, they arent gone... just shifted)
3. No experience for killing other runners
4. No reward of any kind for killing other runners
5. NEXT epic doesnt have any runner deaths involved
6. Weapons come about from non-combat means
1) This was done to give low level players a chance to level up in peace so they can be strong enough to participate in pvp. This is not a lifestyle choice, you were not supposed to stay past level 30 or so with a le in. You can look at the threads about the recent change to le's so that you can't implant it after level 30.
5) The rest of the epics do require killing players, they require that even of tradeskillers and ppu's. I think that says more then one epic not requiring it.
4/6) Having to hack aside, you can loot people that you kill. Thus you can obtain equipment and weapons by killing people. I remember some Tanks that lived totaly off of this. Whenever they broke their armor, they'd kill someone and get some new armor.
For the rest, yes I agree. Not gaining exp for killing is kind of sketchy though, as an argument. As a ppu I don't gain exp for doing ppu stuff. As a tradeskiller I can't level past int 70. Using this logic the only thing you're supposed to do in neocron is kill mobs and do limited tradeskilling.
The game is currently a mix, but it's a very badly done mix. My impression is that they took a mmorpg, made it heavily pvp inclined with the main purpose being to kill other players. However their customers ended up not totaly agreeings, and those that did agree were not exactly the kind of customers kk wanted to have around. So they caved in and started moving the game back towards a mmorpg. Current problems arise from the fact that this is satisfactory to neither group.
I really disagree about the common sterotype of the pvp oriented player. Anyone that likes pvp is immediatly assumed to be a cs kiddie. It's my opinion that many pvp oriented players rp better then anyone else in the game. You can't judge all of us just based on players that aren't even here anymore. The "cs kiddies" came to neocron because of the beta. In beta the game was totaly different, and that kind of player was encouraged. Which really wrecked the start of the game, because it immediatly shifted away from them towards a more mixed standpoint. We easily lost half our playerbase at least when they left due to the changes. The community has certain improved in maturity since they left, but it's also gotten boring. There is much less going on now. I can not buff and safely walk from pepper 1 to pepper 3. Sometimes I might run into one or two hostile players, but most often nothing. It's not uncommon to see people standing around in pepper 1 just waiting for something to happen.
When pluto started the game was totaly different. I started as Tsunami and actualy feared for my life. I had to dodge EON almost every single time I tried to get to my apartment. If I got past them, there would be Crackheads waiting to jump me. When I go hunting, I knew I couldn't go anywhere near TG, and I knew that MB was just as dangerous. I found other places to hunt, yet even there once in a while someone would find me. That is how the game is supposed to be. This is a gritty/dark/post apocalyptic/dangerous cyperpunk game. It's not supposed to be friendly. But yes arguing from the "should be" standpoint won't get me anywhere. It's just sad that the game has gone so downhill from where it was. I'll bet kk could make quite a lot of money if they did somethig similar to venus and let a third party open up a new server which is running the beta of neocron, with some fixes of course. That's the game most of us payed to play.
I find that the PvP-Challanged want an expensive single player game, online, with people to chat with while killing a mob, or tradeskill? Intrestingly enough the die hard non-PvP tradeskillers earn their money mostly from PvPers who aquire items built, researched, repaired for them, yet they dont mind at all. The PvP challanged dont mind at all about killing creatures for their own amusement and loot their carcasses, yet they take great offense when someone comes along and gives the same treatment.
Originally posted by Duder
I find that the PvP-Challanged want an expensive single player game, online, with people to chat with while killing a mob, or tradeskill? Intrestingly enough the die hard non-PvP tradeskillers earn their money mostly from PvPers who aquire items built, researched, repaired for them, yet they dont mind at all. The PvP challanged dont mind at all about killing creatures for their own amusement and loot their carcasses, yet they take great offense when someone comes along and gives the same treatment.
Well at least we don't have any pvm-challenged playing neocron.
Originally posted by Duder
I find that the PvP-Challanged want an expensive single player game, online, with people to chat with while killing a mob, or tradeskill?
A single player game with people to chat with? That doesn't even make any sense.
Originally posted by Duder
The PvP challanged dont mind at all about killing creatures for their own amusement and loot their carcasses, yet they take great offense when someone comes along and gives the same treatment.
So if I choose not to PvP then I'm no better than an AI controlled Mob? Is that what you're saying?
Personally I don't use an LE because I want to be part of a clan. I joined this game so I could play with my friends and be in their clan. I love to go on hunting trips with them. I even love to go to Op wars, even if I get my ass kicked pretty quick. I don't go to PP1 though because I don't find random PvP enjoyable. If there is a point to it, ie gaining control of an Op, I'm all for it. I'm a researcher and I enjoy doing the research. I wish KK would improve it a bit, but overall I don't think its too bad. The best part of it is seeing the reactions of my fellow clanmates when I can give them the MC5 part they need or the 5 slotted item they wanted. I play this game for the community.
This hasn't been brought up in the last few pages, but I think it needs to be reiterated before anyone tells me to go find a game with more tradeskills or chatting features. I LOVE neocrons FPS interface and real time playstyle. Currently there is no other game on the market that offers an MMORPG with this style of interface. All of the other MMORPGs (that I know of) are turn based combat systems. If I could find another game that matched NC's playstyle and interface and didn't have PvP but had challenging mobs and interesting quests I would change games in a heart-beat. Since that game doesn't exist yet, I'm here in NC and plan on staying for the forseeable future.
Originally posted by petek480
Well at least we don't have any pvm-challenged playing neocron.
Sure we do. They are the people who cap their characters in 3 days and only ever see 2 zones in the entire game (Chaos Caves and PP1). I would certainly classify them as PvM challenged.
Originally posted by Strych9
And to clarify, I have always been for a more dangerous Neocron, one less carebearish.
But
1. The PvPers dont seem to want it.
2. Up to this point, KK doesnt want it either.
Until those two groups come around and agree (maybe BDOY will change it) I am having a HARD time agreeing with anyone that says this game is clearly intended to be PvP only.
The only playstyle in Neocron that is in ANY way punished, and not at ALL rewarded, and could be called 'expensive' or 'hard', is the playstyle of the pure PvPer.
Think about it.
Stop clinging to what KK said in plan files 3 years ago, or what KK printed on their box. Look at the game mechanics, and then draw conclusions.
Your poll was done after the majority of our playerbase left. Those that are still here are either not pvp'rs, casual pvp'rs, or the nicer of the pvp oriented crowd.
Your poll also does not show how gameplay flaws influence responses. There is a glaring paradox in Neocron with rares. Rares are supposed to be hard to come by and easy to lose, this makes them rare and valuable to obtain. But rares are necessary for pvp in Neocron. The advantage they give you is beyond anything skill can compete with. This combination means that we will spend most of our time gathering equipment that we lost instead of pvp'ing. That is what most people dislike, and why they are in favor of a safeslot or locked belts. Required equipment for pvp can not be rare! Sure it can be more difficult to obtain then normal equipment, but it should not be rare. That defeats the whole purpose of calling something rare. Every single capped Tank has a Cursed Soul. How rare is that? Even forgetting rares, slots are so hard to get that we value slotted weapons too much to ever consider taking them somewhere we could lose them. But again, you often need high slotted items to compete. People's response in your poll is because of this paradox, not because of their pvp orientation. Those that disregard the paradox are players that already have insane resources, enough that rares are not rare at all for them, nor are slots valuable. If I had dozens of 3-5 slotted spells in my apt, then I would not care much about losing one. So I would be all for item drops and no safe slots.
JackScratch
10-03-04, 23:20
To the starter of this thread, I don't know how serious your question was ment to be, but it is too limited. The fact is, almost no one cares if there is PvP or not, the problem is the general Ganking.
The fact is that PvP makes up a very small but very important part of this game. I dont know about other CareBears, but I have never, nor will I ever ask for a change to the game mechanics. The LE system is completely fucked, but I dont care about it anyway.
This game has the complete potential for a beutiful socio political structure. You can build, create, politic, and yes even just level and explore for the fun of it. Why Gankers can't stand for people to do these things in peace I cant fathom, but they can't.
The thing that realy bothers me the most is that ganking is the most inconsiderate behaviour that could exist in this game. A ganker is actively, knowingly affecting another human being activities in a very negative manner, without provication. This is mindless, childish , misbehaviour and it needs to be punished as such.
Now, in answer to your question, examples could be given, but they are wholely inadiquit. What to do for fun in this game is nearly limited only by the imagination. Myself I have started a successful business, I help those just starting out, to both atain equipment and learn the ins and outs of the game. Also as I am certain you know, I am running a political campaign to put a stop to Ganking, not by PvPing with Gankers, which is what they want, rather by teaching the upstanding citizens of this game to shun Gankers at all times in all places. You will pardon me if I find it hard to believe your question is a serious quest for an answer, because the scope of the question is so vast and obviously answered. The answer is, what cant you do instead of ganking?
As much as the pvp stereotype is thrown around, there is also a rp'r stereotype too. This player is outraged when people think pvp is part of rp. The only pvp that is acceptable is strictly controled and agreed on. ie "Hey let's go to pepper in an hour and fight, ok?" Anything else is ganking and makes you nobetter then a cs kiddie. This type of player has as bad an effect on Neocron as the cs kiddies. Players like Helen Angilarity(sp?) were typical of this group. She was outraged that enemies of tangent crashed a tangent meeting in city admin headquarters. Were we supposed to knock and ask if they wanted to fight? "Oh sorry guys, we're busy doing rp right now, come back later." that would have been their response!
JackScratch
10-03-04, 23:49
Originally posted by Carinth
As much as the pvp stereotype is thrown around, there is also a rp'r stereotype too. This player is outraged when people think pvp is part of rp. The only pvp that is acceptable is strictly controled and agreed on. ie "Hey let's go to pepper in an hour and fight, ok?" Anything else is ganking and makes you nobetter then a cs kiddie. This type of player has as bad an effect on Neocron as the cs kiddies. Players like Helen Angilarity(sp?) were typical of this group. She was outraged that enemies of tangent crashed a tangent meeting in city admin headquarters. Were we supposed to knock and ask if they wanted to fight? "Oh sorry guys, we're busy doing rp right now, come back later." that would have been their response!
I just want to verify, Carinth, are you accuseing me of this, or is it a coincidence? I would have to argue that this in no way descriibes my feeling on the subject. My only requiremnet is an adult motive. None of this kiddie bullshit either, an honest Adult motiveation. And also for the record, I avoid any deep RP like the plague.
What exactly would an 'honest adult motive' be? :confused:
Originally posted by Possessed
Pete is actually pretty handy with that knife of his....
BTW if you're gonna call one of the best PPUs in this community a nub, you better have something more than your half arsed whining to back it up.
How many times do i have to say it READ THE THREAD I HAVE AN LE IN.
JackScratch
10-03-04, 23:58
To Glok
I would say a good egsample of an honest adult motive would involve haveing had a conversation or more with the individual in question in which you disagreed about something worth fighting over. Of course you realy dont have to have a conversation to want to take an OP from someone, but that would be valid as well. Hunting Gankers is the Holiest of all motives. Consentual Deuling is a good one. I would even accept a little strong arming in the trade comunity "stop pokeing in plasa 1 or don't ever leave a safe zone" course you would have to make the htreat first. Hell use that thing God put on your damn shoulders, just behave like a human being instead of an animal. Hope this clears it up for you.
Originally posted by Carinth
As much as the pvp stereotype is thrown around, there is also a rp'r stereotype too. This player is outraged when people think pvp is part of rp. The only pvp that is acceptable is strictly controled and agreed on. ie "Hey let's go to pepper in an hour and fight, ok?" Anything else is ganking and makes you nobetter then a cs kiddie. This type of player has as bad an effect on Neocron as the cs kiddies. Players like Helen Angilarity(sp?) were typical of this group. She was outraged that enemies of tangent crashed a tangent meeting in city admin headquarters. Were we supposed to knock and ask if they wanted to fight? "Oh sorry guys, we're busy doing rp right now, come back later." that would have been their response!
For as infrequently as rp events such as a faction meeting occur, having it raided really screws up the enjoyment of the participants. If you want a fight, go take an Op or raid an HQ (assuming the meeting isnt being held there) instead of disrupting an obviously rp involved event.
I don't think players should be outraged that you raided their meeting, after all if you're faction enemies then you should fight against each other. However, I also don't think they wouldn't be fairly pissed off IRL that you ruined their event and that you couldn't allow them to enjoy the game for a few minutes and attacked someone else instead.
EDIT: [OOC] What the hell was TT doing meeting in CA HQ? If they were in TT HQ or the concenter than leave them alone and find someone that isn't trying to do a bit of rping to annoy. If they are meeting in another factions HQ then they don't really have a reason to complain.
Originally posted by JackScratch
I just want to verify, Carinth, are you accuseing me of this, or is it a coincidence? I would have to argue that this in no way descriibes my feeling on the subject. My only requiremnet is an adult motive. None of this kiddie bullshit either, an honest Adult motiveation. And also for the record, I avoid any deep RP like the plague.
nope not directed at you, i started typin that before i saw your post
JackScratch
11-03-04, 00:16
Cool, I wasn't angry or anything, just wasn't sure. For a lot of Gankers, which if memory serves you arent one, tend to catagoize me as a carebear and all that intails. Its easier for them to deal with someone who is irrational, wether they are or not. It's a lot like being incorrect about something, so you argue with what the other person should have said so you would be right and they would be wrong. Standard Ganker tactic,
"IF you don't like PvP then go play sims online."
"But I do like PvP."
"I dont know why you people who don't PvP even play NC."
"I said I do PvP."
"This is a PvP based game and you non PvPers should just go cry to your momies."
"is this thing on? Tap tap tap".
You know, like that.
Originally posted by Myrlin
For as infrequently as rp events such as a faction meeting occur, having it raided really screws up the enjoyment of the participants. If you want a fight, go take an Op or raid an HQ (assuming the meeting isnt being held there) instead of disrupting an obviously rp involved event.
I don't think players should be outraged that you raided their meeting, after all if you're faction enemies then you should fight against each other. However, I also don't think they wouldn't be fairly pissed off IRL that you ruined their event and that you couldn't allow them to enjoy the game for a few minutes and attacked someone else instead.
EDIT: [OOC] What the hell was TT doing meeting in CA HQ? If they were in TT HQ or the concenter than leave them alone and find someone that isn't trying to do a bit of rping to annoy. If they are meeting in another factions HQ then they don't really have a reason to complain.
You are making the classic mistake of assuming they are rp'ing and we're not. Is it not within reason that if you recieve inside info that many of your enemies are gathering in one spot, you'd act on it? That's what annoys me, rp is not exclusive of pvp. One form of rp is not more important then another. There's no reason we should value a meeting over enemies attacking. Believe me, I understand why one might be angry at having a meeting disrupted. I don't understand why they didn't expect something like this could happen. Even though you may not choose to participate in pvp, that doesn't mean you can pretend it doesn't exist. If you wish to avoid pvp, then you have to take steps to do so. Namely use your le and safezones. When you step outside of either then you are entering the pvp world.
Originally posted by JackScratch
Cool, I wasn't angry or anything, just wasn't sure. For a lot of Gankers, which if memory serves you arent one, tend to catagoize me as a carebear and all that intails. Its easier for them to deal with someone who is irrational, wether they are or not. It's a lot like being incorrect about something, so you argue with what the other person should have said so you would be right and they would be wrong. Standard Ganker tactic,
"IF you don't like PvP then go play sims online."
"But I do like PvP."
"I dont know why you people who don't PvP even play NC."
"I said I do PvP."
"This is a PvP based game and you non PvPers should just go cry to your momies."
"is this thing on? Tap tap tap".
You know, like that.
I was actualy part of the group that actively hunted the gankers, thats why I'd be patrolling the dif sewers and cellars in nc. That's the kind of solution I liked, I wasn't very happy when they changed it so you get sl loss nomatter what. Player vs Player is fun, Player vs Game is not. Even with the problems they cause, we need "bad guys" to give "good guys" a reason to exist.
My two cents... I would like that NC had features to attract non PVP players, like other MMORPG.
JackScratch
11-03-04, 01:14
Carinth -
Though I see that you are certainly one of the good guys, I have 2 discrepencies. 1 fun is relative, many find PvM fun, that doesnt matter. 2 evil must exist to balance good is a weak excuse to behave like a turd, evil will continue to exist without rationaliseine it, and there are plenty of non turd like ways to PvP without subjecting the noobs, tradeskillers, and generaly passive folks to it.
I can't5 stress enough that I respect you ways, but I beg you not to encourage those who insist like behaveing like children. Guide them, certainly, but don't encourage bad behaviour.
Borlegan -
How does it not do that now?
Originally posted by JackScratch
Carinth -
Though I see that you are certainly one of the good guys, I have 2 discrepencies. 1 fun is relative, many find PvM fun, that doesnt matter. 2 evil must exist to balance good is a weak excuse to behave like a turd, evil will continue to exist without rationaliseine it, and there are plenty of non turd like ways to PvP without subjecting the noobs, tradeskillers, and generaly passive folks to it.
I can't5 stress enough that I respect you ways, but I beg you not to encourage those who insist like behaveing like children. Guide them, certainly, but don't encourage bad behaviour.
Borlegan -
How does it not do that now?
I agree, but unfortuanetly kk provides no other way for evil to be evil. What exactly can criminals do? What do killers do? Even though my character is fairly moral, he is Tsunami and thus supposed to be a criminal. There's not exactly much he can do to act like one. If we could get a real sl system in which good and evil are viable (instead of evil being ridiculously punished). Then I would be totaly happy we dropped the immature portion of the community.
Originally posted by JackScratch
To Glok
I would say a good egsample of an honest adult motive would involve haveing had a conversation or more with the individual in question in which you disagreed about something worth fighting over. Of course you realy dont have to have a conversation to want to take an OP from someone, but that would be valid as well. Hunting Gankers is the Holiest of all motives. Consentual Deuling is a good one. I would even accept a little strong arming in the trade comunity "stop pokeing in plasa 1 or don't ever leave a safe zone" course you would have to make the htreat first. Hell use that thing God put on your damn shoulders, just behave like a human being instead of an animal. Hope this clears it up for you. One caveat. "F6 Roleplaying". There are factions in this game that are at war. Red = Dead is a perfectly valid playstyle, but it doesn't fit in to your concept of PvP in any way. Maybe you are expecting something from this game that it's very design does not encourage. Yes you can politic to change players to your views, but you have no basis for saying that's the way it is supposed to be.
JackScratch
11-03-04, 01:46
No Glok, it is not. Faction hostilities make no sence, they have no effect on the game, no reward no punishment, they are useless. Red=dead isnt a war, it's an excuse, and a poor one at that. It is a half hearted attempt for people who are going to do what they want no matter what, to validate what they were going to do anyway. Faction killing for the sake of killing is no better than any other form of random killing. It is bullshit. The only way I would accept Random/Faction killing as valid is if there were a VIABLE way to opt out of it. In order to stop abuse the LE system went from bad to worse.
Carinth
As for ways to stop it, there are plenty, not the least of which is not encourageing gankers with the we need evil speach. but anything which shows that they are doing something wrong helps. Anything that sends the message "We will not put up with horrible behaviour" makes a difference. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, close your eyes for even a moment and in a flash it is gone. I wage my war day and night.
As for ways to stop it, there are plenty, not the least of which is not encourageing gankers with the we need evil speach. but anything which shows that they are doing something wrong helps. Anything that sends the message "We will not put up with horrible behaviour" makes a difference.
what...would you like KK to start banning pk'ers?...
Originally posted by JackScratch
No Glok, it is not. Faction hostilities make no sence, they have no effect on the game, no reward no punishment, they are useless. Red=dead isnt a war, it's an excuse, and a poor one at that. It is a half hearted attempt for people who are going to do what they want no matter what, to validate what they were going to do anyway. Faction killing for the sake of killing is no better than any other form of random killing. It is bullshit. The only way I would accept Random/Faction killing as valid is if there were a VIABLE way to opt out of it. In order to stop abuse the LE system went from bad to worse.WTF. The whole entire game is based around the faction system. Christ. What kind of game do you think this is with 95% unsafe zones and no SL loss on red kills in anarchy zones and warzones where there is never SL loss and the entire way the game is set up?
You better answer this with some real in-game mechanic that backs up your views.
Jack sorry dont understand.
I mean that other mmorpg have many other features that encourage non pvp players to stay in game, NC should increase that features... and even role playing will get better if not all thinks about pvp on all players.
Many ppl dont join a game due to the pvp, I mean only pvp way the game is played so KK is losing a potential number of players that wont pvp but will create a cyberpunk atmosphere.
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