View Full Version : PPW bonus is gone, help make the apu viable again.
Callash stated in a previous discussion that the PPW bonus taken away from the PSI core and Dimension Splitter when the apu/ppu malus was reduced to 5%, will not be reinstated. :(
He explained that the bonus was set in place to make up for the hit the malus caused to pure psi's. Since the PPW bonus added into the psi core and ds will not be coming back, can something be done to make the apu a distant fighter again rather than a permanent anti buffer in OP fights?
this thread isnt to argue the shortcomings of a tank so please keep the tank/apu comparisons out. If you have a complaint about how the tank doesnt do this and isnt capable of that, make your own thread :D
point being:
A)you cant cap a Holy Lightning if you want more than 2 fire apocs shots after a holy antibuff.
Frankly, if you want to be an effective apu, you cant cap ANY rare if you want more than 325 mana.
What does that do? You are effectively benny hill on the run from your aggressor right after a holy antibuff until that psi booster manages to get your mana up high enough to fire ANY rare spell. (if you spec to cap a holy lightning and a fire apocalypse) In the heat of battle, this can seem like ages and also have you running to your PPU. The apu was never like this.
All this, even with a dimension splitter and a psi core installed.
Can we please get a fix to this? All classes are able to cap their damage output on most of their rare weapons. why is the APU forced to not be able to cap ANY rare spell if he wants to remain viable after a antibuff. This to me, is the equvilant of making a holy ressurection take 375 mana and take 1 minute to cast. It's silly and overdone.
The Non DS APU
B) Forced to used experimental psi controller 3 with the -20 force resist gimp :(
This is just way to big of a resist hit for the psi who already has crap force resist.
Is there anyway KK can do away with this negative side effect to the chip. Or at least drastically reduce it? Make the chip more viable. How does a brain implant reduce your ability to absorb force damage anyway? It has NO roleplay explanation to me at all.
No need to reiterate that the Holy lightning will be fixed to whatever damage output it used to have. We all know thats going to happen.
I totally agree with you.
Rather than nerfing Monks more and more from patch to patch, KK should do something about the class...or it will become instinct...
Think about it...
Spys, Tanks, PEs...can easily cap the weapons with 1-2 "primary" brain implants in! I easily cap dmg on rares with SF+SA combo on my spy and PE, the other 2 slots used for PPR and MOVEON, so the defense is up and kicking! Everything is great! My chars pwn!
Tanks are even easier, but I wont touch on that.
So now lets see APU monk setup...ds/psi core/att3/att2
So that's it...with this setup I can actually gimp my mana to approx 360-370 or so and cap HL o_O
What about my defense? Ideally I'd like to be the same as PE/Spy/Tank to easily put in the moveon/ppr without gimping my offense, but how can I???????????? DS+Core+PPR+moveon = really great offense 300-400% on HL? gotta try it out!!!!! :)
I need 75+ in mst, 75+ ppw, 100+ apu, try balacing it out. 3 primary attrivutes in one stat (PSI)...spys/PE's only need to spec 2 (r-c/p-c and t-c, dont take agl here since u need <50 on average). And the amount of imps that raise the t-c/r-c/p-c is more than enough...Tanks even easier...just spec 1 skill...force+trs is a joke^^
So wth??? Even with extra ppw bonus from DS/core and DECENT range on my spells I could be an okay fighter without having to worry about PPU buffs...now I cant live without ppu? WTH? funny? I SAY NO! I don't play apu anymore unless my friend ppu is on, because there is no point, I know I will die in the matter of seconds, or I'll just have to run...run...and run till I GR out of die^^
I dont know, but I think monks should get booster and eye with psu/ppw/psi bonus. Nerf PPU effect on others (maybe specifically APU's if KK think that APU+PPU combo is too strong - I believe that's where all the nerfing started from as everyone was complaining about it). Or there should be a serious look into skill calculations/fixes on dmg, mana, etc with the look of current imps available.
And apu's are really great now for solo leveling - try it...I'll be amazed at the number of deaths you will have...
So...summary: APUs now=no defense+short range fighter+slow runspeed = figure out what you get^^
That's why I dont play my capped APU anymore...:o
Psyco Groupie
09-03-04, 12:12
you arent forced todo anything, get your own setup and if its an op war setup, maybe factor a ppu into it
tanks dont cap aiming on their weapons, niether do spies or PEs .. ul there goes your arguements
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
you arent forced todo anything, get your own setup and if its an op war setup, maybe factor a ppu into it
tanks dont cap aiming on their weapons, niether do spies or PEs .. ul there goes your arguements
what relevance does that have?
Yes you arent forced to do anything, yet how many pistol/Rifle PE or Spy hybrids do you see out there? NONE
The point is, having a character that remains viable and can still compete for some of the overcompensated characters out there. This isnt a "nerf this" thread. It's a thread for boosting the APU so the class can be viable against someone other than the trade gimped spy in a fight.
Psyco Groupie
09-03-04, 12:33
apus rock ... maybe not against the dev but only tanks and/or ppus stand up for more than 5 seconds against the dev anyway
I agree with psycho, APU's seem fine to me....
Well I just want to start a petition.
Eyes and boosters for monks!!!
Psi attack eye / Psi defensive eye:
Lvl1: 5 apu/ppu + 5 ppw (or psu) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: 10 apu/ppu + 10 ppw (or psu) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: 15 apu/ppu + 15 ppw (or psu) - 15 ppu/apu
Psi attack booster / Psi defensive booster:
Lvl1: +1 PSI +5 apu/ppu + 5 MST (or ppw) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: +3 PSI +10 apu/ppu + 10 MST (or ppw) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: +5 PSI + 15 apu/ppu + 15 MST (or ppw) - 15 ppu/apu
That's it...I think monk-lovers should support this and maybe some day KK will look into it^^
Originally posted by P4mp3rk3
I agree with psycho, APU's seem fine to me....
You have a capped APU char? You don't seen the difference to what they were 3 months ago as opposed to now? If not then plz keep this kind of comments to yourself^^
Psyco Groupie
09-03-04, 12:50
APUS WILL BE BACK NEXT PATCH
I just saw an APU kill a decent Tank and 2 different PEs in NF, close combat with HL. HL took only 4-5 shots to kill everyone. APU is fine.
Originally posted by CrazyMan
You have a capped APU char? You don't seen the difference to what they were 3 months ago as opposed to now? If not then plz keep this kind of comments to yourself^^
oi!
actually, I don't have one ANYMORE, no (had one before those 3 months you're talking about). I gave my APU stuff to a friend who came back and I can tell you, he is perfectly fine, still killing stuff fast, doing very good damage...kicking lots of ass, yesyes
Catch him off guard though, unprepared, then he will die (always been like that), but in all other fights he's FINE
thanks....
Once they unnerf the APU in the next patch we can see how things look. If they're still gimped i might be for this, at the same time i think it shouldnt be easy for a loan apu to kill a ppu, if I HAB a PPU i should mabe have enough mana to get off 2/3 slots of another rare spell but not enought to spam.
APUs are *meant* to be the biggest damage dealers in the game. Not tanks. Tanks have the best offense in the game, and by FAR the best defense in the game.
2 tanks with PPU buffs + holy heal on them could take down 10 monks with PPU buffs.
Then theres the fact psi-boosters aren't instant anymore, and (as WebShock pointed out) if we use PPR, in exchange for Attack 2, if we dont want to gimp with +5 psi imps too much, we need to drug for PA3. Couple the PPR with a move on into a monks head, then your the most gimped char in the WORLD.
DS/Psi Core/PPR/MOVE ON - Losing out on 25 APU, have to drug for PA3, and no chance in hell of capping ANY rare spells, in exchange for a bit more health and resists.
DS/Attack 3/PPR/Move on - Losing out on 15 APU, still have to drug for PA3, CHANCE Of capping HL/FA with PPU buffs + drugs for PA3.
DS/Psi Core/Attack 2/Attack 3 - Decent APU, can use PA3 without drugs, *barely* caps HL/FA without PPU buffs, crappy defence.
Its crap @_@
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
APUS WILL BE BACK NEXT PATCH
Yea.... I studdy alot so dont play so much but 2 weeks after this patch I made a tank well hes a bit over 100 STR and can soon use a dev :rolleyes:
Thats a laugh.. But atm APU aint a option they change them to hell and back in all patches its not even fun to log on a gimp all day long.
Originally posted by SorkZmok
STOP WHINE
Why? its true... only class that can kill a PPU buffed are tanks why do you see 85% tanks and PPUs in op fights now :rolleyes:
Why do you think I made a tank? Its all a option but if you wanna compete you cant chose....
Just add a range of eyes that give PSI, APU/PPU and either MST or PPW.
Spines + Eyes is too much and eyes make more RP sense for a psi ability IMO. They need high PSI reqs though so no other classes can use them.
Balance them so that a capped monk would gain about 30-40 mana from using the top one depending on his previous setup.
This would also fix monk PA4.
Shadow Dancer
09-03-04, 16:13
There's not much wrong with apus, they are very close to balance. I get 640% on HL, and i'm psi base 99. I also have 380 mana.
That's awesome.
The only problem is I think xp controller is wayyy too gimpy, since you basically have to use it if you don't have a DS.
I think monks in general need better imps.
To say that the ppw nerf on the chips made apu monks unviable is just soooo wrong.
It really isn't that big of a deal.
I think our xp controllers need changing, it's too much gimpage to an already low resist. Come on now. :rolleyes:
We also need to be able to cap int, I can't stress that enough. Why can't KK just fix it already and make it FAIR. Sheesh.
That's pretty much it. But I disagree that the ppw "nerf" has made apus unviable.
Eyes would work.
I also think that more imps could be a good way to counter the monk slow int gain... make the Attack and Defensive psi processor chips give Int...
One thing to bear in mind is the difference between PvM and PvP.
APU mana is not too bad for PvP but in PvM it definitely falls a little short.
As SD says, it's far from terminal but I can't see how fixing it would cause any unwanted imbalance elsewhere.
/edit - @strych9 - Better just to fix the gain that fudge around it. Sooner or later they wil have to up the rate and then all the fudges will become a problem.
Original monk
09-03-04, 16:19
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
There's not much wrong with apus, they are very close to balance. I get 640% on HL, and i'm psi base 99. I also have 380 mana.
That's awesome.
The only problem is I think xp controller is wayyy too gimpy, since you basically have to use it if you don't have a DS.
I think monks in general need better imps.
To say that the ppw nerf on the chips made apu monks unviable is just soooo wrong.
It really isn't that big of a deal.
I think our xp controllers need changing, it's too much gimpage to an already low resist. Come on now. :rolleyes:
We also need to be able to cap int, I can't stress that enough. Why can't KK just fix it already and make it FAIR. Sheesh.
That's pretty much it. But I disagree that the ppw "nerf" has made apus unviable.
i like what he is saying here and i agree to every bit, especialy the xp3 problem and the INTgain problem
and to quote shadowdancer on these problems: "Come on now. :rolleyes:"
cause indeed: those are things that should of been changed about a year ago :) but its never to late hehe
greendonkeyuk
09-03-04, 17:24
if we are discussing it in an rp sense surely a spinal implant would be more suited as its the synapses that control the psi powers.... then again i guess in the "real world" then all the monks would need remove the adv nerves theyre currently using for the extra intel bonus? IF the intel gain was fixed (to something similar to a spies intel gain would be appropriate) then we wouldnt need the advanced nerves any more. This would work. having psi eyes to me jus sounds like superman a bit too much with his red eye lasers. Still the Monk intel gain will also allow you extra psu = more mana and quite rightly said next patch apus get tweaked again. i have to say i dont see the whole doom and gloom picture that the thread starter painted.
Originally posted by CrazyMan
Well I just want to start a petition.
Eyes and boosters for monks!!!
Psi attack eye / Psi defensive eye:
Lvl1: 5 apu/ppu + 5 ppw (or psu) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: 10 apu/ppu + 10 ppw (or psu) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: 15 apu/ppu + 15 ppw (or psu) - 15 ppu/apu
Psi attack booster / Psi defensive booster:
Lvl1: +1 PSI +5 apu/ppu + 5 MST (or ppw) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: +3 PSI +10 apu/ppu + 10 MST (or ppw) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: +5 PSI + 15 apu/ppu + 15 MST (or ppw) - 15 ppu/apu
That's it...I think monk-lovers should support this and maybe some day KK will look into it^^
give me heavy combat eyes...
dont know where your problem with the apu is ...
before i got my ds i used the xp3, cappd all my spells (hl,apoc,holy anti-shield) and had approx 330 mana ..
was just fine for me ..
now with ds, i still cap the hl, but have 5% less dmg on apoc, but got a pool of 359 and a nice cr of 72 ..
hey .. apoc and anti shield arent cap .. i dont care ..5% less on a spell dont do that much .. im perfectly happy with my monkeh at teh mom, doing duels, pp and op fights ..
everything this new implants would give you is a bigger psi pool ..
remember the crahn epic glove coming with doy? =)
Shadow Dancer
09-03-04, 17:52
Originally posted by DeFILeR
remember the crahn epic glove coming with doy? =)
Anything that is coming with doy, should be ignored when it comes to balance IMO. Because doy has been coming for ages.
The damn glove would help out alot, it should just be released already. It's unfair that other classes get cool items with epic rewards, but the monk's main item that would help them out hasn't come out yet. Why not just release the rewards already, and change the epic when DOY comes?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Anything that is coming with doy, should be ignored when it comes to balance IMO. Because doy has been coming for ages.
The damn glove would help out alot, it should just be released already. It's unfair that other classes get cool items with epic rewards, but the monk's main item that would help them out hasn't come out yet. Why not just release the rewards already, and change the epic when DOY comes?
yea same with the termi.. it took em so long and its still not "really" ingame :I
ps : i got one from that event tho :p
but they should implement ( or implent ? oO ) that run now finally :o
/e but anyway to the topic...APUs are finally nearly balanced now...i`m scared that it all go back like it was with the next patch...they should just lower dev dmg.. and cs dmg a bit...but leave apus like they are now
Shadow Dancer
09-03-04, 17:54
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
yea same with the termi.. it took em so long and its still not "really" ingame :I
Yes, another perfect example.
sex
dajuda shh dont lie and if u are telling truth those classes were most deffinatly noobies it is quite evident by the amount of concern on the forums that apu is currently underpowerd or the other classes are overpowerd, either way i hope this is acknownledged
all i complain about is the agility nerf from PA? all i ask is why? it effectively kills the apu. Slow apu +no defence =dead always. You took away the only defence the apu has.
melee tanks are daeadly as hell now and they dont get an agility nerf. Seems that most ppl who play the test server have tanks as their primary characters in the retail servers.
dajuda shh dont lie and if u are telling truth those classes were most deffinatly noobies it is quite evident by the amount of concern on the forums that apu is currently underpowerd or the other classes are overpowerd, either way i hope this is acknownledged
LoL ..
Go to pluto, get a few tanks, PEs together, then have SD go in there and waste em all in a few seconds. Then come back and tell me I'm lying. Aslo, these were not noobs, they were vets and members of good clans, but so was the APU. Next time you go name claling make sure you have your facts straight.
Originally posted by jernau
Just add a range of eyes that give PSI, APU/PPU and either MST or PPW.
Spines + Eyes is too much and eyes make more RP sense for a psi ability IMO. They need high PSI reqs though so no other classes can use them.
Balance them so that a capped monk would gain about 30-40 mana from using the top one depending on his previous setup.
This would also fix monk PA4.
Yes PSI Eyes! Sick of having to use a +1 int eye thats really useless otherwise, when all other classes have full sets of imps that are extremely usefull.
Shadow Dancer
09-03-04, 21:27
Originally posted by Delloda
all i complain about is the agility nerf from PA? all i ask is why? it effectively kills the apu. Slow apu +no defence =dead always. You took away the only defence the apu has.
The apu still has decent speed with everything into agility.
I have no problem with PA taking away some speed. What I do hate is that I feel that in a way apus MUST wear PA.
I get about 602% on Hl and about 240 mana(abysmal) without pa. That's capped and WITH a ds.
If I try to get semi decent mana(300), then my HL becomes equal to energy beam in damage. See? It's almost like PA is a must. And that is what I dislike.
Originally posted by ProfX
give me heavy combat eyes...
Why?
Is there a need?
No, it's just because some people can't look objectively at the situation.
Originally posted by jernau
Why?
Is there a need?
No, it's just because some people can't look objectively at the situation.
so a apu gets +35 to his combatskill, but needs psieyes.
while a tank gets +24, but shouldn't get eyes because its "enough"?
maybe YOU should look more objectively at the situation before posting shit :wtf:
Originally posted by ProfX
so a apu gets +35 to his combatskill, but needs psieyes.
while a tank gets +24, but shouldn't get eyes because its "enough"?
maybe YOU should look more objectively at the situation before posting shit :wtf:
Ok then add a MST-type skill in str that a tank must put skill into to use his weapons, and add a health-pool skill in str that tanks must put points into to get HP, instead of con.
Then tanks will be on an even playing field with monks...they will have to dump points into 3 things in str instead of just one.
Originally posted by g0rt
Ok then add a MST-type skill in str that a tank must put skill into to use his weapons, and add a health-pool skill in str that tanks must put points into to get HP, instead of con.
Then tanks will be on an even playing field with monks...they will have to dump points into 3 things in str instead of just one.
ok then let me fully cap my weapons with 180 hc like a apu does and not 255 like its now :wtf:
Originally posted by ProfX
ok then let me fully cap my weapons with 180 hc like a apu does and not 255 like its now :wtf:
lower the CS ammo to 10 and let your aim cap ok?
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 00:30
Ok guys enough.
ProfX, the point is this thread is about apus and apus only. What jernau meant was that whether or not you think apus should get an eye or a spine or whatever, has nothing to do with a tank getting something "first". At least that's what i think he meant.
It's like me going into a tank thread about a new tank rare, and then saying "only when apus get a psi beam. hyuk hyuk hyuk"
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by t0tt3
lower the CS ammo to 10 and let your aim cap ok?
if cs gets autoaim, lower the clip to 10.
oh and remove the speedhit while ur at it
my point is that all u ppl whining about the APU atm should just stfu and get some fucking skills, the dmg will be fixed next patch, so stop bitching FFS.
until then either get a PPU or be FUCKING careful when fighting
it's not THAT hard to be viable with a monk atm
but all u ppl do is freak out about "OMFG I CAN'T CAP PSIPOOL AND DMG!!!!11 KK FIX THAT, I WANT TO ANNIHILATE EVERYTNING EXCEPT PPUS IN 4 CASTS WHILE HAVING SNIPERRANGE; OTHERWISE ITS A NERF NERF NEFR!!!11!!111"
(if u didn't guessed it already, i was exaggerating O.o )
u can't have the best of both worlds, so get fucking over it.
and btw if u call 360-370 pool gimped (with capped HL :wtf: ), then look at my APU.
i got 285 pool and 598% on HL, my PSI is capped (INT 87), i don't wear PA (because i don't want to) and still he is MORE then viable, because i KNOW how to play him.
all in all, i like to say: "If your char sux, it's not because of the game, it's because of YOU"
EDIT:
@SD: i KNOW what this thread is about, but u can't say that the APU got nerfed due to the removal of the "extra" ppw from DS and core.
he GOT nerfed but the nerf was the fucked up dmg from HL (yes 30-40 dmg to a unbuffed tank IS fucked up :wtf: ).
BUT if u KNOW what u r doing when u play an APU u CAN compensate that fact.
i HOPE (i really do) the the dmg from HL gets fixed, maybe not the "I'll vaporize everything, except PPUs with 4 casts"-Dmg, but apropriate dmg.
if u ask me HL should do the same dmg as CS (if a reticle for APUs ever gets implemented, it can even be greater than cs-dmg)
and before any1 asks, yes i play an APU, although my main is a tank. tanks got big advantages atm due to 20% dmgboost for cs and dev, but it will be fix with the next patch.
expect some SERIOUS bitching when that happens :O
but also expect me to bitch at every1 who says tanks are underpowered :O
P.S.: excuse the long post and the bad grammar/spelling, i'm tired and english is not my native language @_@
Originally posted by ProfX
if cs gets autoaim, lower the clip to 10.
oh and remove the speedhit while ur at it
my point is that all u ppl whining about the APU atm should just stfu and get some fucking skills, the dmg will be fixed next patch, so stop bitching FFS.
I think Tanks got less skill to play and a monk... Just started a tank atm and hey over 100 STR now so still w8 for the patch now when I soon can carry dev and kill PPUs w/o HAB I really dont care :rolleyes:
I dueld many monks and tanks and won. Just tired of getting kicked in each patch with loads of new things. Just stick to one thing and keep it as it is ffs...
Originally posted by CrazyMan
Well I just want to start a petition.
Eyes and boosters for monks!!!
Psi attack eye / Psi defensive eye:
Lvl1: 5 apu/ppu + 5 ppw (or psu) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: 10 apu/ppu + 10 ppw (or psu) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: 15 apu/ppu + 15 ppw (or psu) - 15 ppu/apu
Psi attack booster / Psi defensive booster:
Lvl1: +1 PSI +5 apu/ppu + 5 MST (or ppw) - 5 ppu/apu
Lvl2: +3 PSI +10 apu/ppu + 10 MST (or ppw) - 10 ppu/apu
Lvl3: +5 PSI + 15 apu/ppu + 15 MST (or ppw) - 15 ppu/apu
That's it...I think monk-lovers should support this and maybe some day KK will look into it^^
good idea...NOT, apus are just fine as they are, you release those kind of imps and anyone could cap everything EASILY and get capped mana. it would make ppus even more invicible as they are. this would allow a ppu to wear a moveon and PP chip without gimping themselves.
gimme a break
Skuld
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 00:38
ahhhhh
edit:Sewer, I get 380 mana with 640% HL.
Yea I saw some people posting random numbers... who gets 370 mana and capped HL?
I cap HL but my mana is 340, with 370 or 380 I wouldnt complain at all.
/edit..
And ProfX dude stop trolling, your tank is wearing PP/Moveon isnt he? I bet apu's who get those stats in their weapons are not wearing any single epic chip.
Tanks need a bit of implant re-work sure, why dont you make a thread instead trolling around?
I made a thread some months ago about PSI implants and guess what... Monks got +1/+2/+3 PSI in attack/defence chips as a result.
//edit2: That's not cap, and my name is Sleawer.
t0tt3, if u want that Tank/APU issue any further plz PM me and keep this thread clean >_<
i would hate to see it getting close because of us 2 rambling at each other :O
btw. PM "Sigma" then, because i just borrowed that acc from a friend (need to pay my acc-bill >_< )
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 00:48
Originally posted by Sleawer
//edit2: That's not cap, and my name is Sleawer.
Sorry made a mistake. :p
Yea but i'm 1 psi level away from cap. And i'm sure you could lom a bit of ppw to hit 370, then use that to cap the HL.
640% is not far from 648% anyways. :p
Originally posted by Sleawer
//edit2: That's not cap, and my name is Sleawer. It's 1.2% off of cap, cap being 100% of possible damage. Close enough I would say, and if you think that 1.2% makes a difference... that's just being a stat whore.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I have no problem with PA taking away some speed. What I do hate is that I feel that in a way apus MUST wear PA.
.
i miss wearing my purple robes. :( I still wear it about in plaza but i hate the way teh colour reverts to the original green colour everytime you take off the pa. :(
np, I have to say it myself now that bib is not here to defend my name hehe.
Yea 640% is good damage in HL, in fact before the nerf I used to have 416 mana (cap) and 640% HL - 621% FA. Problem is that now you don't cap either mana and damage. Too much hassle for a small benefit.
/edit: yea Glok I'm a stat whore, but also read above and you will see why I see it wrong.
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 00:54
Originally posted by Delloda
i miss wearing my purple robes. :( I still wear it about in plaza but i hate the way teh colour reverts to the original green colour everytime you take off the pa. :(
omg exactly. I wish PA didn't revert your color to the original.
Bah. I mss my black robes. :(
I wish there was an option to "hide" pa GFX.
Psyco Groupie
10-03-04, 01:04
Me likes my leathers too, makes my ppu look double hard cos he can resist 't3h dev' with just leather, instead of leather and silk
Originally posted by ProfX
so a apu gets +35 to his combatskill, but needs psieyes.
while a tank gets +24, but shouldn't get eyes because its "enough"?
maybe YOU should look more objectively at the situation before posting shit :wtf:
LMAO
How many STR subskills does a tank need to put points in?
How many PSI subxkills does a monk need to put points in?
Can a tank wear all PAs?
Can a monk wear all PAs?
Is a tanks ammo limited by one of his STR subskills?
Shall I go on or have you got a clue yet?
/edit - @sd : yes, in part. Though I also think tanks don't need an eye. Likewise I wouldn't demand R-C bones for my rifle-spy. He can't cap all his stats either without gimpage. That's how it's meant to be. It's about balance not just giving all skills the same imps and items with different names.
STOP WHINE!
APU's are perfect as they are right now, and this is coming from an APU
;)
And SD, INT takes alot of time, but it's cool as it is, cause it's the only class that isn't cappable in a week.
INT exp gain is more than fine.
Originally posted by Dezh
STOP WHINE!
APU's are perfect as they are right now, and this is coming from an APU
;)
do you have a apu? i bet you dont. if you did you would see the point.
sure you can spec to get a decent mana pool, but you wont cap any rares. read the writing my friend,
NO CAPO ANY RAREO's
maybe in my dirty spanish you can understand that.
so... stop flaming.
i'm sure in whatever class you play you can fully cap at least one rare weapon
what are you talking about int gain is fine? aer you nuts? i been playing my apu for 6 months and i still cant cap int. wtf O_o
Q`alooaith
10-03-04, 15:15
Originally posted by Opar
2 tanks with PPU buffs + holy heal on them could take down 10 monks with PPU buffs.
But 10 monk's with holy heal's and PPU buff's can take down two tank's with holy heals and PPU buff's..
it's all about how they fight, two anti buffer's two posion spammer's, two fire spammer's two Para halo spammers, and the rest Holy lightning and bam, nothing stand's up to that kind of force...
Now if you talking all APU's, but with one PPU support, and two tank's with one PPU support, the fight can still go the way of the APU's, who's PPU should switch out to the group spell's rather than buffing each on their own.. Anti buff the PPU and bam, fight's half done.
Originally posted by jernau
LMAO
How many STR subskills does a tank need to put points in?
How many PSI subxkills does a monk need to put points in?
Can a tank wear all PAs?
Can a monk wear all PAs?
Is a tanks ammo limited by one of his STR subskills?
Shall I go on or have you got a clue yet?
/edit - @sd : yes, in part. Though I also think tanks don't need an eye. Likewise I wouldn't demand R-C bones for my rifle-spy. He can't cap all his stats either without gimpage. That's how it's meant to be. It's about balance not just giving all skills the same imps and items with different names.
1.) how many points does a tank need in his comabtskill to be EFFECTIVE
2.) how many does a monk need
3.) with drugs and gimpage, yes
4.) with drugs and gimpage, yes
5.) transport
6.) yes, go on, because in my eyes u making urself look more and more stupid :wtf:
edit - FFS PM me (Sigma) if u want to discuse the APU-Tank shit any further
1) Tanks are perfectly effective - they can cap everything but RoF with a "standard" setup. Monks are also effective but they can't even cap damage if they have a decent pool. Don't be a stat-whore, try looking at actual combat not the stat screen.
2) No, monks cannot use their PA4 at all (I'm not counting crescent tabs as they barely exist anymore).
5) LMAO - how many tanks spec a lot of TRA.
6) Get your eyes checked along with your facts.
Want another one - how about if every time you reloaded your cannon it cost you 1000nc and 10-20% of the ammo vanished into thin air before you used it.
Originally posted by ProfX
ok then let me fully cap my weapons with 180 hc like a apu does and not 255 like its now :wtf:
180 apu will only cap a tl103 apu weapon, but thanks for coming out.
a tank cant cap his cs with 180hc ... he needs more then 200 + weaponlore ...
and a cs is tl 104 ...
mfg profx not sigma :D
Shadow Dancer
10-03-04, 22:11
Prof, an apu can't cap his rares with 180 apu, ALONE. He needs alot of PPW as well.
And since PPW is part of his main stat, it's very similar to a tank spending all his points on 1 skill in his main stat.
Plus I have 210 PSU, our second 100 skill used entirely in capping RoF and getting some extra mana.
Also CS caps everything but aiming (245%), and it aims better than my 267% fully capped First Love, thank you very much.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Plus I have 210 PSU, our second 100 skill used entirely in capping RoF and getting some extra mana.
Also CS caps everything but aiming (245%), and it aims better than my 267% fully capped First Love, thank you very much.
never knew u r using a FL with ur monk :wtf:
With my spy.
I need with him much more RC than tanks HC to cap CS, much more wep lore, more TC, and still have to spend points into AGL.
And you come here as TANK to say that monks have easy mode?
Look at the facts, every class has certain points stronger than others, Monk mana should be capped or at least very close to it, it doesn't overpower the class, it just makes sense.
Yet some people have to bitch at everything...
Originally posted by Sleawer
With my spy.
I need with him much more RC than tanks HC to cap CS, much more wep lore, more TC, and still have to spend points into AGL.
And you come here as TANK to say that monks have easy mode?
Look at the facts, every class has certain points stronger than others, Monk mana should be capped or at least very close to it, it doesn't overpower the class, it just makes sense.
Yet some people have to bitch at everything...
u complain that ur TL 115 rare needs MORE combat skill to cap than a TL 105 rare?
how much RC do u need to cap a FL?
because a tank needs about 255 HC to cap CS, if not more.
also i NEVER said monks are easy to play, BUT all of u want to make it look like the monk is totally unviable atm, which is just plain wrong.
and btw, i play monk AND tank, both high-lvl and my monk is just as viable as my tank
Well you should be lucky that tank can aim at all because they are really ridiculous dumb......
Tanks has it easy lvl faster and has the best base defence of all chars. So dont come here and say all monks are dumb bla bla bla whine whine.
got 330 pool so I can have 630% HL and I need a fucking PA 3 to do that. If I could use a PA 1 and still have over 600% I wouldnt whine but atm a tank can so take a cookie and stfu :rolleyes:
Wrong, you need more Weapon Lore, which also happens to help RoF/Handling/Damage/Range, not only heavy combat.
With simply +15 weapon lore my aiming in CS goes from 218% to 245%, and from here a 'cannon' with that percent aims better than my rifle with 267%.
Perhaps instead of the luxury of having both Moveon and Resistor in your head, you should try to wear pure combat implants like monks do... still you get HC from Moveon, whereas my Spy and Monk alike don't get that bonus.
Your Tank also gets 50% of his health pool by constitution MAIN skill, whereas my monk gets 10% from PSI, 15% from PSU, and still doesn't cap it. Get this straight, Monk mana is as important Tank health.
As a monk in my secondary main skill intelligence I can have PSU and only that, and still cannot cap mana. How would you like to devote all your constitution into Body Health?
If you bother to read my posts, instead trolling here of how hard tanks have life, you would notice that I'm not stating but the obvious... I know nothing of "BUT all of u want to make it look like the monk is totally unviable atm".
The only thing that tanks need is better implants, some that give both wep lore and h-c instead just the latter, but that has nothing to do with our psi pool, and certainly nothing with this thread.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Wrong, you need more Weapon Lore, which happens aswell to help RoF, not only heavy combat.
With simply +15 weapon lore my aiming in CS goes from 218% to 245%, and from here a 'cannon' with that percent aims better than my rifle with 267%.
then something needs to be done with the aiming of the FL
Originally posted by Sleawer
Perhaps instead of the luxury of having both Moveon and Resistor in your head, you should try to wear pure combat implants like monks do... still you get HC from Moveon, whereas my Spy and Monk alike don't get that bonus.
name some PURE combat implants for an HC-tank
Originally posted by Sleawer
Your Tank also gets 50% of his health pool by constitution MAIN skill, whereas my monk gets 10% from PSI, 15% from PSU, and still doesn't cap it. Get this straight, Monk mana is as important Tank health.
ok, tell me how much do i need to skill under CON and how much do u need to skill under INT?
Originally posted by Sleawer
As a monk in my secondary main skill intelligence I can have PSU and only that, and still cannot cap mana. How would you like to devote all your constitution into Body Health?
so u can skill PSU-only under ur secondary mainskill, i need to skill HC-only under my PRIMARY mainskill
Originally posted by Sleawer
If you bother to read my posts, instead trolling here of how hard tanks have life, you would notice that I'm not stating but the obvious... I know nothing of "BUT all of u want to make it look like the monk is totally unviable atm".
u r trolling as much as i do and u should read my posts 2 :wtf:
Time to quote, and probably to compare both classes for all and finish the hijacking that YOU started.
Originally posted by ProfX
then something needs to be done with the aiming of the FL
Exactly. So does need to be done with Monk mana, hence the point of this thread. Yet you see it right for FL, but not for mana.
And you are not trolling? Ok.
name some PURE combat implants for an HC-tank
Originally posted by Sleawer
The only thing that tanks need is better implants, some that give both wep lore and h-c instead just the latter, but that has nothing to do with our psi pool, and certainly nothing with this thread.
You are not saying anything that I already haven't done. So YOU are either a) not reading my posts or b) trolling.
Make a thread for better implants, don't wait until someone else does it. There are some implants that provide TC/Weapon Lore still, you can use them until KK improves it.
ok, tell me how much do i need to skill under CON and how much do u need to skill under INT?
You need exactly the SAME under Constitution as a Monk does, the difference is that you have 100 and monks 45.
Yet our second main skill cannot be used for it, but instead completely spent in PSU to avoid gimpage. I'd like to compensate my lack of constitution with research, or implant, or construction, or something to support others... but I can't. You can spend your second and most important skill in the game for what it was meant to be.
so u can skill PSU-only under ur secondary mainskill, i need to skill HC-only under my PRIMARY mainskill
In my MAIN skill I have to spend all into APU/MST/PPW. So the same as your main skill, but we also need PPW to cap mana, I.E. to determine the *real* rate of fire and gain damage. Without PPW a monk can't fire and doesn't cap damage. Oh and we have an useless skill called MST.
u r trolling as much as i do and u should read my posts 2
No, I come to the thread and try to stay on-topic, talk about monks and their stats, problems and issues. YOU come to the thread to bitch about how easy we have it, how fine we are now, how hard tanks have it, to divert the topic into your own bitching... to TROLL.
YOU are the one who should read, not only my posts, but the complete thread seems.
Originally posted by Sleawer
YOU come to the thread to bitch about how easy we have it, how fine we are now, how hard tanks have it, to divert the topic into your own bitching... to TROLL.
READ my post FULLY
i NEVER said that monks have it easy, i NEVER said that monks are fine atm NOR did i say that tanks have it hard atm, BUT i already said and will say it again:
monks are in NO way unviable atm
and if u want to post again that u know nothing about "BUT all of u want to make it look like the monk is totally unviable atm" then look at the threadtitle :wtf:
EDIT - to make it clear once and for all:
APUS don't need new implants, what APUs need is there DMG unnerfed and Randomdmg removed
nuff said :p
To even things up for tanks I suggest :
1) Remove all Advanced, Experimental and Bat Queen Bones
2) Remove all STR spines
3) Remove all level 2 hearts
4) Add 2 new strength subskills that need at least 75 points each in them before you can equip a CS.
Do that and I'll agree that tanks need an H-C eye.
Currently tanks get great implants in every slot except their eyes and even there they can get 10 WEP which is useful as they have so little INT.
Compare to monks :
Bones - all shit, hardly worth the weight
Eyes - +1 INT. Not needed at or near cap
Spines - +5 INT with serious gimpage. Not used at all at cap
Hearts - Nothing special considering the penalties and low CON unless you waste a brain-slot for a MOVE-ON.
/edit -
Originally posted by ProfX
monks are in NO way unviable atm
and if u want to post again that u know nothing about "BUT all of u want to make it look like the monk is totally unviable atm" then look at the threadtitle :wtf:
Which orrifice did you pull that out of? The thread starter said something like that but almost every other poster including all the APUs said it was an overstatement. You skipped all that and started whining about tanks.
1- The thread has 5 pages, the topic may have changed RADICALLY. Actually it did, some of us monks already said that monks are still viable, tho not as they should be.
2- You are discussing with ME. And I haven't said in any moment that monks are not viable. I just find the mana issue wrong at the moment, I have had this gripe for many months now, so it's not new to me.
I got pissed due your entrance in the post straight to tank bitching, first post... not sure who made it since it seems you are two persons in that account :\
Whatever... the thing kept on until this moment. You certainly have not said that monks have it easy; but have completely disregarded the idea of monk mana since the beginning, an idea which I have had in my throat for many many time now... months, long before DS or PAs.
There is no point to quote what is posted in the window at my right, since you already know what you wrote, but blamming our chars or skills for something that do not really depend on us goes straight to my nerves. I know that probably is not what you wanted to mean, but it looked like that.
Personally I'm not really worried about damage, that can be balanced by many means if KK ever decides to do it; what I do care about is versatility, mana for monks is pure joy and versatility, something that we should not be deprived of.
//edit: actually I was thinking in a new idea that might do the trick for monk mana (prolly not but worths the try); it just requires insane lomming so I preffer to wait until TS is up.
//edit2: also, why the heck you don't wear PA, you don't like how it looks?
Apus are still effective if you know how to play them right they will be fixed damage wise next patch.
And personally I would agree to a monk eye and backbone if you can explain either a RP reason for having them or a "scientific" way of making an eye and backbone boost psi that sounds even remotely plausable
Originally posted by Sleawer
1- The thread has 5 pages, the topic may have changed RADICALLY. Actually it did, some of us monks already said that monks are still viable, tho not as they should be.
2- You are discussing with ME. And I haven't said in any moment that monks are not viable. I just find the mana issue wrong at the moment, I have had this gripe for many months now, so it's not new to me.
I got pissed due your entrance in the post straight to tank bitching, first post... not sure who made it since it seems you are two persons in that account :\
Whatever... the thing kept on until this moment. You certainly have not said that monks have it easy; but have completely disregarded the idea of monk mana since the beginning, an idea which I have had in my throat for many many time now... months, long before DS or PAs.
There is no point to quote what is posted in the window at my right, since you already know what you wrote, but blamming our chars or skills for something that do not really depend on us goes straight to my nerves. I know that probably is not what you wanted to mean, but it looked like that.
Personally I'm not really worried about damage, that can be balanced by many means if KK ever decides to do it; what I do care about is versatility, mana for monks is pure joy and versatility, something that we should not be deprived of.
//edit: actually I was thinking in a new idea that might do the trick for monk mana (prolly not but worths the try); it just requires insane lomming so I preffer to wait until TS is up.
//edit2: also, why the heck you don't wear PA, you don't like how it looks?
i have to admit that i went over the top with some of my posts, but i just hate it when ppl complain that there class was fucked over and made unviable, when in fact it wasn't (and i mean every class)
and yes 2 persons are posting form this acc, due to the fact that mine is bugged atm, i'm Sigma on the forums btw
and about your edit, it may sound stupid, but i wanted my chars to be unique (as unique as possible in NC :rolleyes: ), so i stopped using PA, the funny thing is it doesn't work anymore, because most tanks are non-PA-ed atm and the number of non-PA-ed PEs is growing 2
the only unique char i have atm, is my APU, probably the only non-PA-ed APU (at least on saturn), of cause i'm taking serious hits in both psipool AND damage but i learned to live with it, and tbh i can't really say he's that much worse than an PAed APU
edit - and btw if i want to cap both psipool AND every spell at my disposal, i just poke in my psikami :D
not that i live long enough afterwards to enjoin it though :p
Originally posted by ProfX
a tank cant cap his cs with 180hc ... he needs more then 200 + weaponlore ...
and a cs is tl 104 ...
mfg profx not sigma :D
If you haven't noticed, tanks aren't meant to cap aiming on thier rares...
Originally posted by g0rt
If you haven't noticed, tanks aren't meant to cap aiming on thier rares...
err...why?
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