View Full Version : Why did KK raise APU spell requiments?
Okay, I am back for few months break and I make a psi monk and start levelin my APU. So far I was using Energy Halo and I was going to get PSI lvl 55 soon and tought it's time to get Holy Energy Halo. But alas, I go to store and see its red even thou my psi level is 55. I wonder myself what the hell and look requiments. I almost felt off my chair - 120 APU and more MST than neocron.ems.ru said.
So what did happen between last november and now? Did I miss something vital or why is requiments skyrocketed. Last time I played, not even HOLY LIGHTNING needed as much as LOW LEVEL NEWBIE SPELL.
Can anyone explain?!
Necrosadistic
08-03-04, 14:47
They lowered the hybrid penalty to 5% and increased the reqs on APU spells so they would not be overpowered.
hyb nerf :\ now lowbie monks suffer
Oh great, so KK went overboard again? How much APU does holy lightning need now if a midlevel spell needs 120? If I do quick calculation, it would need around 150 or 160 or possibly even more.
I am able to use Holy Energy Halo (HEH) only with imps. Last time I played APU (which I lommed to PPU naturally) I was able to use Holy Energy barrel EASILY with base 100 APU. Now I have to pump it even more and exp loss is greater when I change to PPU.
Oh joy oh joy, why did I ever returned ;)
(Well, Neocron is teh game still and I won't let minor setbacks to hinder my movements -- and constant hope of me returning FF :p )
they completely destroyed hybrids now.... joy :I
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
they completely destroyed hybrids now.... joy :I
How? If they removed penalty almost complite, how did they destroy? Put on apu kami and change PA's? Or did I miss something vital there?
Holy lightning needs 147 apu and 82 mst now.
edit: APU kami has -40 ppu instead of int now.
yea dude.. you can use heat 1 or 2... holy nrg halo.. blessed shelter and stuff.....with those spells you`re the total uber GIMP
prepatch hybrids were weak BUT they could play a good role in op wars ... with dbing / buffing / healing and even fighting a bit.. now they`re just.... GIMPS
only thing you`re good in is 1o1 and pvm.. and 1o1 last 10 minutes ..
imo when you`re hybrid.. :
pe`s outheal you
apus simply ******** you
tanks laugh at you
spies stealth
joy joy...o_o
/E : prepatch i knew 4 hybrids... now i dont even know ONE hybrid...
Hey cy have you tried a PE style hybrid? energy beam and level 1 buffs?
yea glok i been on the TS for like 1 week testing with hinch and others and i lomed 100 mil psi in retail to test...no way.. fuck it
Kami chips now gives 40 APU and -40 PPU, so you cant use that for a hybrid setup.
KK made the changes so that you would not be able to have good offence and defence.
Hm. I might have to stay pure then. :/ I'm still gonna try a pe style hyb, but it will probably suck as you say.
sorry if i destroyed your hopes now :(
who knows maybe you`ll find a new way i didnt see ;)
anyways i notice when i talk about it i`m gettin all pissed off again =/
the last hybrid change really wasnt neccessary.... in my eyes hybrids were even underpowerd compared to pure monks already and i refused to play a hybrid back then... but i knew a few people who really loved it and they didnt pvp much.. nor were they overpowerd or something :(
i still think that the problem we have now with all the overpowerd apus and ppus is far worse than the problem we had back then with a few uber hybrids on each server..
KK should simply make all monks hybrids.. lower the spelldmg to like 300 - 400 % .. remove para... make db cast 3 times on players..make sd selfcast or nerf foreign heals... bring back epu...etc etc.. so many possibilitys..
but uh they arent listening anyway.. :I
.cy
I agree, seems that KK will never balance monks with pure apus and ppus... all hybrids would be easier.
Original monk
08-03-04, 15:40
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
KK should simply make all monks hybrids..
originally every monk was a hybrid (except a few very rare pure monks .. aka medikitmonks) ... then people started whining on a few overpowerd hybrids (and alot of classhoppers ..) ... even now when the hybridproblem is loong vanished and is being replaced by the "pure" problem ...
hybrid has a bad name now .. and KK will make sure that hybrids stay nerfed .. for public opinion [read: noobs yelling for nerfs ... same noobs that yelled for PPUnerfs (and got a apunerf after witouth em realising emself ..) ]
then the stupid things with the kamihybrids ... first its ok and 2 months after: the kamichip gets nerfed etc ... all 1 big mess up
i loved and always played hybrid ... untill they nerfed em to dead -30% = dead yeah ... those where a few sad months yeah :/
but when they implemented them kamichips i opend a new account and started a new hybrid ... and now they nerfed em again with the stupid spell-req's.
well: the hybrids that where annoying back in the days allready left long time ago, or changed to another overpowerd class off the moment ... im still hybrid .. but punished severely for all the classhoppers that found emselves a nice class to push to the limits ...
im getting mad again myself, i stop for now :/
:mad:
I disagree Cy. Before this patch kami hybrids were still better than anything else 1v1, and could perform a limited PPU role in OP wars. Considering they were the shit for 1v1s, and could still hit people with holy para halo on top, as well as giving any team mates that turned up level 3 buffs, holy shelter (even a weak shelter is better than nothing on a tank) and holy heal (whatever the stats are its better than a TL3 heal) I don't see how anyone could complain that they weren't much good in OP wars.
If you want PE defence then you're overpowered with anything more than PE offense - and that means you're worth the same as a PE in an OP fight. There's no way you can get around that without being overpowered.
my apu has been back and forth to hybrid about 3 times i had pre kami hyb = SHIT, i had Kami hybrid lots of fun but lost too many 5 slotted items that i needed to stay alive, post patch hybrid = still shit no dmg out healed by tl3 heal and as useful as a melee tank atm in op wars so i'm back to apu got RECAP again though :(
personally i blame hinch
The ONLY way to balance monks is to remove ANY way of being a hybrid.
As long as its even POSSIBLE to be a hybrid, I dont think monks will ever be balanced, because the hybrid will take advantage of the system.
Originally posted by Scikar
I disagree Cy. Before this patch kami hybrids were still better than anything else 1v1, and could perform a limited PPU role in OP wars. Considering they were the shit for 1v1s, and could still hit people with holy para halo on top, as well as giving any team mates that turned up level 3 buffs, holy shelter (even a weak shelter is better than nothing on a tank) and holy heal (whatever the stats are its better than a TL3 heal) I don't see how anyone could complain that they weren't much good in OP wars.
?????
oO thats what i said...before the last patch hybrids were "ok".. not overpowerd.. in MY eyes they were underpowerd.. but they were "ok".. NOW after the patch they are shit
and hey... SURE you can win 1o1`s but its simply no fun... thats what it comes down to.. its no fun to play a hybrid anymore...
@originalmonk ...yea i played hybrid since beta 4 start :)
i know what you mean and i feel ya :I
Shadow Dancer
08-03-04, 16:18
Um cy is right. I tried(and i have DS) both a bless heal/halo hybrid and an energy beam hybrid.
First of all, the energy beam damage sucked at the level of damage I had it at, even with DS. ANd i could only TL 3 heal. And being forced to damage boost all the time to get "decent" damage, is pretty bad IMO.
Secondly, the bless heal/shelter hybrid still has overpowered defense IMO. But notice how no one plays them? Yea because their offense sux. Even against my apu, I could take like 20 halos damage boosted, lol. And trust me, as fun as it is to take so much damage and still keep ticking, it's NOT fun to spend 30 mins killing 1 person. O_O
I have 3 possible solutions in mind.
1.Make all monks hybrids, and balance them that way. But this is unfair to pures atm, just like hybrids being destroyed was unfair to them.
2.Make 3 gloves. 2 pure gloves with -100 in the opposite skill and 1 hybrid glove. Then give hybrids their own spells that require both apu and ppu. With their OWN spells, it'll be like 50000x easier to balance them AND make them unique, AND they won't always get proxy nerfed or boosted by changes to pure monks.
3.sex
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I have 3 possible solutions in mind.
1.Make all monks hybrids, and balance them that way. But this is unfair to pures atm, just like hybrids being destroyed was unfair to them.
2.Make 3 gloves. 2 pure gloves with -100 in the opposite skill and 1 hybrid glove. Then give hybrids their own spells that require both apu and ppu. With their OWN spells, it'll be like 50000x easier to balance them AND make them unique, AND they won't always get proxy nerfed or boosted by changes to pure monks.
3.sex
1. i know what you mean and maybe we could make a slightly lower version of pures.. like for example.. all dmg caps get lowerd to 400 % cap... a normal 50 / 50 hybrid could reach lets say 300 % ... one who goes more into ppu can reach 400 % ppu and 200 % apu.. and so on.. you know what i mean :p
2.good idea ... i could live with that if its not too bad spellwise :)
3.thats no solution.. thats a must
.cy
well i used to be hybrid, used to love it, but they became overpowered so they needed a nerf, of course we all know Kk's style nerf, apus were overpowered(noone tryand deny it i know they were)so another typical KK nerf, went slightly over board, not as much as they did with hybrids, but still.
not sure what top end hybrids are like, i know there is one on saturn, who just recently one a pvp comp there emerald "dead eye" flynt or something like that.
so theres one hybrid for ya.
im building myself one atm, currently low level, of around 33/25 mainly cos i was getting all nostalgic for old days.
i said back then and still maintain that they should of balanced hybrids not create 2 more monk classes to try and balance.
there were lots of suggestions for balancing them, but kk didnt listen, shame, if they had balanced hybrids back then not allowing tem to be overpowered then i would never of followed the path that led me to be so anti monk and eventually delete my capped monkey:mad:
in addition to my hybrid, i also met another at the MB last night hunting warbys, though also low level like myself, so theres 3 :p
In my opinion hybrids will never be viable as long as pures exist.
That's the raw opinion.
In real this is translated to the solution 2. of SD, one that allows you to use apu modules, other that allows to use ppu modules, and the third glove would be for hybrid spells.
APU modules should be only usable for apu monks, PPU modules the same, that way hybrids could not use other weapons than their own set of hybrid modules.
It would be a lot easier to balance them.
Originally posted by hinch
FU dont blame me :(
I GOT THE HYBRIDS NERFED
from your title^^
so its all your fault, well not just yours, but mostly:p
meh :(
with the dev as it is atm i see no problems putting hybrids back in exactly as they were as we see even pure ppus can drop to a dev pretty quickly so a hybrid will drop even quicker since the inability to cap spells is actually noticiable now
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
prepatch i knew 4 hybrids... now i dont even know ONE hybrid...
im still hybrid....
Wasnt there suppose to be exotic PSI modules or at least there was?
I believe I remember seeing them.
Couldnt hybrids simply be given these exotic PSI modules which are suppose to be both APU and PPU?
Its been awile since BETA and I wasnt in BETA for a long time so.....
they had exotic start of retail, but removed it brough in Mental steadyness and done reworking of the psi
exotic was stuff like ressurect and would include all the anti spells now a days too
tbh this is the only way to go for hybrids then you can have an uber gimp skilling in all 3 or a ressurecting apu
or a fire beam using ppu but one that cant ressurect you etc
it would truly give the monks diversity
Originally posted by hinch
exotic was stuff like ressurect and would include all the anti spells now a days too
tbh this is the only way to go for hybrids then you can have an uber gimp skilling in all 3 or a ressurecting apu
or a fire beam using ppu but one that cant ressurect you etc
it would truly give the monks diversity that would be cool as long as it was viable, and as long as it wasnt overpowering
Original monk
08-03-04, 17:44
omnituens, deadeye flint are a few yeah, i know there are more: like i yust saw in gort's sig that he has a hybrid, only dunno he's name.
and ffcourse my own new hybrid: `hanta`(needs 3 more psi to cap tough, originated out of a kamihybrid) cause original monk lommed ppu with the KILL the hybrid -30% patch ...
snif, talking about hybrids makes me all emotional and moochy
I just figured since I remember seeing exotic psi then that is what hybrids should get, unique modules that are for hybrids only.
that way you can create a whole new line of spells that are not overpowering or weak and is suitable to a character that wants to use both APU and PPU spells.
Of course they should not be all offensive spells or defensive spells.
maybe one spell could be a holy lightning type spell that leeched HP. (oviously not as damageing)
APU's still should get a leech spell (which in my opinion should be a soul cluster)
then the hybrids get a way to heal themselves good, it combines both healing aspects of a ppu with the attacking aspects of an apu.
thats just one example though.
then the requirements for apu and ppu spells can be lowered ^_^
Monsoon is a hybrid on saturn isnt he?
or has that changed since last time i saw him? (or is he deleted?)
yeah monsoon is hybrid(presume he still is anyway) think its Divides hybrid monkey.
:lol: i still have nightmares about harvey Birdman back when he was hybrid
Goddamit topic hijackers :lol:
Is there an official word from KK about those spell reqs? Someone's signature said that they will be fixed? Is it true? Am I pumping up APU too much because of a BUG?! 8|
It is stated here that it is not a bug:
http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=444&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Increased APU/PPU requirements on most spells to keep hybrid monks from using the high techlevel spells.
Originally posted by cMz
It is stated here that it is not a bug:
http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=444&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Increased APU/PPU requirements on most spells to keep hybrid monks from using the high techlevel spells.
Well, I deleted my APU last nite (Got it to psi 60 in two day so not a big deal). Now wondering should I do APU again or go to tank (Providing I get second account because I had to give up my another second account :D )
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