View Full Version : A little FRE tip...
When I played NC back in the beta days I had an old school Slot A Athlon 600. I'd FRE pretty regularly but it was beta *shrug*
When retail came out I upgraded to a Socket A Athlon 2100+ (1.76). I tended to FRE a lot and still wonder how I managed to put up with it as long as I did...
When I got my 2100+, I had the stock Aluminun HSF. I would boot up windows into the 50-55 celsius range and playing NC for a few hours would peak me into the 60s. At this point I FREd a lot.
About 3 months into retail (December '02) I got a Copper HSF (Thermalright SLK 700) with a new fan (74mm 5500rpm) and some Arctic Silver 2... from then on when I booted up, I was at about 30 celsius, BIG improvement, and playing NC for hours never brought me above 35. The frequent FREs stopped.
For over a year, I've never had chronic FRE problems. The occasional zoning FRE due to netcode or the citycomm crashing me would happen, but no battle FREs or standing around in Plaza FREs. Keeping my CPU and Case cool is what keeps my FREs away.
In the past week I've been FREing like a MADMAN. I'd log on, say hey, FRE. Log back on, say "damn FREs", then FRE. The third time I'd log on, I'd get as far as "damn F..." then I'd FRE. It was out of control and I was getting pissed, especially considering for the past year, hours of Neocron a week yeilded maybe 2-3 FREs.
I reinstalled Motherboard Monitor (I hadn't after my last reinstall) and my CPU was booting up at 46 celsius and hitting 51-52 when running NC, much higher than it used to be. So I opened up my case and went vacuum crazy, cleaning everything. Turns out, on top of all the regular dust and such, there was a layer of crap under my CPU fan and on top of the Heatsink, so less than 50% of the air was going through to the CPU.
After a massive cleaning job, I started my box back up and booted into a beautiful 29 degree celsius desktop. I just finished playin NC for 5 hours and was at 31 degrees with zero FREs.
Myth - FRE is some error in the engine, netcode, or something KK coded.
Fact - Most people think problems have to be from drivers, hardware, windows, or anything else technical, but fact is, physically cleaning your PC, ensuring proper airflow, and GOOD cooling can reduce FREs. If you're not PC savvy, get a friend who is to look at your PC. I bet a lot of you out there who FRE a lot have a Dell or Gateway or some storebought PC that skimps on fans because they do not foresee some gamer playing a game for 10 hours straight working the box that hard. Some cases even have the outlet in the back for another exhaust fan but simply don't have one.
So yeah, I was lax in cleaning my PC and it got me seriously pissed with FREs. If you've never done it or haven't done it in awhile, or have never even considered your PCs cooling situation, give it some attention.
That is all.
Thank you very much for those pearls of wisdom.... I should probably give my comp a good clean out. :)
Cricket_Eater
07-03-04, 15:12
I just formatted and reinstalled windows yesterday after popping in my AMD 64/Gigabyte mobo. I'll be "testing" Neocron all day tomorrow and most the week :lol:
Originally posted by -FN-
Myth - FRE is some error in the engine, netcode, or something KK coded.
If thats a myth, then why doesnt every SINGLE other program FRE too?
Only reason could be a game engine error, which would be KK's fault.
Fact - Most people think problems have to be from drivers, hardware, windows, or anything else technical, but fact is, physically cleaning your PC, ensuring proper airflow, and GOOD cooling can reduce FREs. If you're not PC savvy, get a friend who is to look at your PC. I bet a lot of you out there who FRE a lot have a Dell or Gateway or some storebought PC that skimps on fans because they do not foresee some gamer playing a game for 10 hours straight working the box that hard. Some cases even have the outlet in the back for another exhaust fan but simply don't have one.
I'm running a TT xaser alu case, with 6 fans, a 500 watt dual fan psu sucking directly over the volcano 11 HSF, max temp I get is 40-45 under load.
And yet I fre once an hour or so.
In otherwords, a coincidence.
in my time of playing neocron i can safely say most of my fres come from my comp overheating
mostly due to poor ventaltion around my tower
added a fan and moved my tower and i must say i play pretty smoothly
i still fre every so often but its rare
Cricket_Eater
07-03-04, 15:25
I've seen that as well too. There has to be something coded in that causes that. No other programs will fatal at the temps NC does.
Next time we will blame our country weather, everything but KK oh no, God save the allperfect KK.
:p
Anyway thanks for the advice -FN-, I'll call a friend this week to read this and see what can we do.
I like to see people like you concerned about gamebugs and possible solutions, that not only helps in fact but also tells KK that they still have to work in bugs.
As nc is a cpu heavy game, it practically maxes out load on the game.
Nc is UBER tempremental, slight overclocking, heat rise causes it to bomb out for fun.
keep your temps low kiddies :D
Myth - FRE is some error in the engine, netcode, or something KK coded.
Fact - Most people think problems have to be from drivers, hardware, windows, or anything else technical, but fact is, physically cleaning your PC, ensuring proper airflow, and GOOD cooling can reduce FREs. If you're not PC savvy, get a friend who is to look at your PC. I bet a lot of you out there who FRE a lot have a Dell or Gateway or some storebought PC that skimps on fans because they do not foresee some gamer playing a game for 10 hours straight working the box that hard. Some cases even have the outlet in the back for another exhaust fan but simply don't have one.
Myth - You know what you are talking about
Fact - A die temperature of the 55-60 range isn't the end of the world. They can handle up to 85-90 without damage. If you're somehow attributing this raise in temperature to instability, which you might attempt to reason that the increase in heat increases the resistance of the silicon which leads to unstable electrical signals inside the chip - then I say go download Prime95 which will work your CPU way harder than Neocron ever will, and see if it reports any errors after a few days of running and keeping your die temp around 65+C. Unless you've overclocked or there's some really so-improbable-next-to-impossible shit going on [which I'm not going to be bothered to explain] you won't see a single problem.
Fact - My PC is watercooled with 4 fans on a 12.5" x 7.5" radiator blowing 300 cubic feet of air a minute with equal amount of that coming from another 4 intake fans. My die temperature is practically room temp. Even when it's not overclocked - and I run prime95/memtest86/3dmark for hours, upon hours, upon hours, I don't get a single crash. Yet Neocron FREs constantly on a fresh installation of windows with nothing but the latest drivers (my nforce2 chipset drivers, and video drivers).
Fact - There is a good chance that BDoY will fix all this. How long till the pre-orders?
8 days until pre-orders, don't put too many hopes in NC:BDOY tho. It is an add-on not a miracle hehe.
MjukisDjur
07-03-04, 18:42
so you found your FRE problem... to bad the rest of us dont have that issue. I run at steady 35 degrees. CPU:s are supposed to handle about 80 degrees. They dont. Everything over 50 seems to crap up all systems ive tried so far.
My FRE:s
* Saturn tend to fre a LOT more than Pluto.
* FRE on zone change - very seldom. Once a week maybe
* FRE when opening doors/gogo 8| - Not so often anymore...
damn it, gotta take notes when it happens. cannot remember exactly right now...
Originally posted by Sleawer
8 days until pre-orders, don't put too many hopes in NC:BDOY tho. It is an add-on not a miracle hehe.
An expansion called NC:BDoY will come and save us all :p
Psyco Groupie
07-03-04, 18:59
na hordes of moomins to save the day
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
na hordes of moomins to save the day
You are not your fucking post count.
Post count does not = IQ.
Stop spamming and make a relevant point for once.
On Topic, Ive played Neocron on 3 different computers - believe it or not, the laptop FRE'd fewer times than the Desktop comps.
I'm talking about:
Laptop = 1 FRE every 16 hours (1.5ghz Athlon, 256mb ddr, crappy onboard 32mb GFX)
My home PC (2.6ghz P4, 768mb DDR @ 333mhz :( 256mb ATi Sapphire 9800 ) = about 12 FRE every 16 hours.
I simply don't buy the CPU heat = Neocron FRE
If that's even close to being genuine, then Neocron holds the title as worlds most heat sensitive software.
If that's genuine they why isn't your PC blue screening reguarly?
Fact is software bugs aren't always wrong code... distributed systems break due to the lag between software components. These components are seperated out over a network (and the internet) therefore if the design doesn't fully compensate for lag, glitches will occur. Writing truly asynchronous code is very tricky and in all fairness I doubt KK can really afford to spend large amounts on money on dedicated technical architects and QA teams to ensure their code is bullet proof and scales.
Thats why Neocron crashes so much and why Championship Manager 03/04 has never crashed once [for me] - despite it being far more resource hungry and CPU melting.
NC is more CPU intensive, BDOY is supposed to fix that.
Jaggeh had those problems as well with his machine, we opened it up and the gaps between the fins were just full of crap. His was crashing after 2-3 minutes after booting up. Once we cleaned it the machine has been working for ages.
If I leave NC running for say 7-8 hours I get GFX corruption and then loads of FRE's (even when rebooting).
I got 29C on my cpu right now, but I guess posting on a forum isn't too taxing on the cpu. :p
Is there a way to see the temps when you're actually playing?
I still fre/freeze/ctd every single day.
Originally posted by Rith
Thats why Neocron crashes so much and why Championship Manager 03/04 has never crashed once [for me] - despite it being far more resource hungry and CPU melting.
Shouldn't you be comparing NC with other mmo's?
When me and another droner fatel at the exact same time in swamp cave. I doubt both our comps are overheating.
Maybe heat instability leads to some FRE's for some people though.
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 20:08
Sorry I disagree with what you call a "myth" FN.
Also, I don't think you have any solid evidence to call it a "myth" either.
There's been a whole lotta theories on FREs in the past by players who say that X causes or doesn't causes FRES based on their own experience. 1 quick question, if it's an issue of overheating or whatnot. Why do some players FRE as soon as they play NC after booting up their comp for the first time in like 8 hours of it being shut off?
Anyways, I think it's a sound related problem. Afterall, 90% of my error logs say stuff like this
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
I noticed this error after crashing while fighting someone
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
Interesting.
Or this famous one
@WResource still referenced on program exit, 10 refs, Resource Name sound\amb\singles\hum\lighthum.wav
Lighthum.wav? I've seen that so many times in the error logs.
Which has happened, btw, on different comps and comp setups.
grrrr
I also get the occasional gfx problem in the logs, but for the most part it's the above ones that I see.
I don't know anything though, :p. Just lettin ya know my observation.
EDIT: YEs as the above poster said. What about multiple people FREing at the same time? Which has happened to me on multiple occasions. Please don't tell me it has nothing to do with KK's coding or engine then, :lol:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Why do some players FRE as soon as they play NC after booting up their comp for the first time in like 8 hours of it being shut off?
Because then the cpu is too cold ... :p o_O
No seriously, best to do other stuff for 30 mins or so, then reboot and play.
Originally posted by Gestra
Maybe heat instability leads to some FRE's for some people though.
Exactly. FRE is just a crash. It is not limited to one thing.
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 20:15
Originally posted by Bragvledt
Because then the cpu is too cold ... :p o_O
No seriously, best to do other stuff for 30 mins or so, then reboot and play.
I usually read the forums or so then play. The point is, at different intervals i've started up NC. And I never noticed any decrease in FREs.
smartie pants
your gpu or cpu overheating is not a nc problem, that will crash on any game with 3d graphics. It's also not necessarily a FRE, when your cpu/gpu overheat, they shut down. That means your system would lock/hang. One of my roomates from college used to have awful heating problems, to the point were he left his case open and put a room fan next to it. Whenever he wants to play a game, he'd turn the fan on. A FRE is a graceful crash, that means the program caught the error and exited as it's supposed to. A cpu overheating is not the kind of thing a program could catch and report a FRE. Unless they program in a temperature check, and shut the game down when your cpu runs to hot, lol.
If you look in the Neocron directory you will see an assortment of Error#.log files which have your 5 most recent crashes and what was going on when it crashed. As shadow said, the majority of them are sound errors. When I look over mine atm, easily 3/4 of error messages are trying to access a sound resource that's either invalid or missing. The rest are a missing graphic or failure to execute a script. In fact all of my errors, aside from the invalid requests, are for 5 or 6 specific files that are missing. I compared with shadow and many of them were in common. I'll bet kk could vastly improve stability if they just put in a few missing files, or at least stop them from being checked if they're not supposed to be called.
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WACTOROBJECT : Index not Found, Index: 45, Section: 1
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed SWAMP
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed GRASS
@WRefCnt < 0, Resource Name gfx\stdparticle.bmp
@WResource still referenced on program exit, 10 refs, Resource Name sound\amb\singles\hum\lighthum.wav
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
@WRefCnt < 0, Resource Name .\gfx\rpos\whitesquare.bmp
My 5 error log files consist of mainly just those 8 lines repeated over and over again. There are a few other random failings but they only appear once at most. If I wasn't so lazy it would be interesting to write a program that scans the error log and records how many times the same error is repeated.
What sound cards are people using then? Of my two comps, one has a SB Live! 4.1, and the other an Audigy 2. Neither comp fatals more than once every 4 hours or so, and the majority of fatals occur with known bugs - zoning with a full APC for example.
shodanjr_gr
07-03-04, 20:48
Even if the fres are temperature related, why the heck do they only happen in Neocron? If i can play Unreal2k3, Eve, Daoc, Deus Ex2, Doom3 Alpha etc etc for hours without crashing while using the stock intel fan on my celeron, i should be able to do the same thing for neocron.
Its the game, its not our puters...
Runtime error: An error that occurs during the execution of a program. In contrast, compile-time errors occur while a program is being compiled. Runtime errors indicate bugs in the program or problems that the designers had anticipated but could do nothing about. For example, running out of memory will often cause a runtime error.
When shit overheats it just crashes, not causes errors. If it's a heat issue, then why does my laptop, which gets so hot it can burn my thighs, almost never FRE, but it's every fifteen minutes on my desktop? The laptop is a 1.6GHz Centrino, and the desktop is a 2.2GHz P4. Obviously not CPU load...
I get the same error.logs as SD, seems like some sound file missing or something weird.
@WWORLDMGR : Editorobject spawn failed: World Load failed
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed GRASS
Exception created World Load failed
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ1.wav
@WACTOROBJECT : Index not Found, Index: 44, Section: 1
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\enemies\tentaclemutant\idle1.wav
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed SWAMP
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\enemies\Mbot_swarm\bark.wav
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\enemies\Mbot_swarm\attack.wav
@WTEXTRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:1606 S:5
@WACTORRSCMGR : Actor File Open failed:.\models\doy\barrel3.act
@WRefCnt < 0, Resource Name .\models\doy\barrel3.act
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\enemies\mutantfly\idle1.wav
@WACTOROBJECT : Index not Found, Index: 45, Section: 1
I get these errors, in different order and x10 each line in the error.log.
sucks.
Using SB live, do you think NC has compatibility issues with certain sound cards?
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Even if the fres are temperature related, why the heck do they only happen in Neocron? If i can play Unreal2k3, Eve, Daoc, Deus Ex2, Doom3 Alpha etc etc for hours without crashing while using the stock intel fan on my celeron, i should be able to do the same thing for neocron.
Its the game, its not our puters...
NC is using an old gfx engine which whacks your CPU more then your GPU. I believe they even mention it in the BDOY details that this is something that is being fixed with BDOY.
When shit overheats it just crashes, not causes errors.
When mine overheats I get corruption in NC, then outside of NC I get errors that files have been corrupted/non existant (when they are in fact fine). Depends a lot on the machine I guess.
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 21:02
See, this is why consoles RULE!
:D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I usually read the forums or so then play. The point is, at different intervals i've started up NC. And I never noticed any decrease in FREs.
smartie pants
Well, the cpu overheating is maybe ONE cause out of a possible 10. So it could very well be that for SOME ppl it actually decreases the number of fre's they have.
How did you know I'm wearing smartie pants?
My main comp, which I use for gaming, has a Santa Cruz sound card by Voyetra Turtle Beach. It fatals all the time, aswell as hangs, and randomly quits for no reason.
My secondary comp, which I use for my alt sometimes, has a Creative SB Live! sound card. It's more stable, but does still fre and hang sometimes.
Sorry, but my P4 3.06 doesn't get above 35 degrees Celsius even during a Prime95 torture test. I get Fatal Runtime Errors quite regularly. You can't blame my drivers either, or computer expertise. Stop blaming me for a program's errors.
Perhaps the issue of processors overheating will cause some people to get those errors, but rather indirectly. When your processor overheats, the program may not be working correctly and it will catch itself and report a fatal runtime error. However, to assume that the coding of the software has nothing to do with this is both naive and can eventually harm us. You know why?
Every time theres a thread like this, a million people may post that they have some kind of error, and then a FEW people state they do not have problems. Then KK get in the thread and go "See, there's no problems, we told you!" while pointing to the FEW that did not have problems. If you ever want them to fix anything, you have to tell them exactly what the problems are (like Shadow Dancer and Carinth).
Just because you may not have as many problems, don't ruin our experience by convincing KK there's no problems with their code.
After looking in my most recent error logs, I have noticed that there are only a few listed... that get repeated a lot of times.
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
[Repeated a lot]
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
[Repeated a lot]
After that it goes right back to:
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
[Repeated a lot]
@WSOUNDMGR : Sound File Open failed:sound\weapon_sfx\psi\master_fire\typ2.wav
[Repeated a lot]
Three of my four error logs had these errors, the final one had:
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed GRASS
@WSOUNDRSCMGR: Get Ref Failed : Index not found I:0 S:4
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed GRASS
Exception created World Load failed
@WWORLDMGR : Editorobject spawn failed: World Load failed
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed GRASS
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed MOUNT
[Repeated 3 times]
SCRIPTEDSOUND : Script spawn failed STEPPE
[Repeated]
Anyone else?
EDIT: Also they all say:
File Check: file 'terrain\terraingfx.dat' is corrupt, missing, or has been modified. (not critical)
File Check complete: 711 files checked
Peeping Tom
08-03-04, 00:02
got Water cooled system.. cpu 33C north bridge 28c
i got good airflow inn my cab LianLi pc 70 and its always clean and stuff
i get fre's all the fucking time
i also had to play on my 2 x 1200mp the past month, umm guess wut i get fre's on that one to
think i had like 3 vid upgrades,3-4 mobos,1 cpu upgrade since beta 4.. umm guess wut i did get fre on all of em.. and my systems is always clean and gbot good airflows atc
so STFU
K4F
Oooh a random conjecture thread :D
I think we should all test whether we crash more often when :
1) we are wearing trousers
2) our nose's are itchy
3) it's Monday
4) there's an R in the month
5) it's raining in Portugal
6) the colour yellow is mentioned on the 9 o'clock news
7) we have just bought some milk
8) the dog needs a walk
9) there are >3 "nerf [class]" threads on the forum front page
A) we are eating strawberries
Only when we have all this vital info can we conclusively blame the problem on MJS's choice of socks.
Hmm - I wonder if I should try switching my case fans back on - got 2 x 80mm on the side, and 2 x 80mm on the top. Only problem is, sounds like a plane taking off when I have them all on :D
i just want to say something not really related and that is since when did the author blame anyone of you for your fre's and he only posted a posibility that worked for him so grow up you guys who like to troll the boards and flame people.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Hmm - I wonder if I should try switching my case fans back on - got 2 x 80mm on the side, and 2 x 80mm on the top. Only problem is, sounds like a plane taking off when I have them all on :D
the only way to save your system from the evil that neocron brings its to have it water cooled with holy water from Lourdes.
Otherwise it will surely melt down in the satanic heat this might app brings :angel:
Originally posted by Lathuc
i just want to say something not really related and that is since when did the author blame anyone of you for your fre's and he only posted a posibility that worked for him so grow up you guys who like to troll the boards and flame people.
Bullshit, he said it was a myth that FRE's were KK's fault, he said it was all our fault.
He's the troll, as are you.
Peeping Tom
08-03-04, 00:28
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Hmm - I wonder if I should try switching my case fans back on - got 2 x 80mm on the side, and 2 x 80mm on the top. Only problem is, sounds like a plane taking off when I have them all on :D
get a Rehobus for your fans so you can adjust the fan speed after nee, i could never had so many fans without one
K4F
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Hmm - I wonder if I should try switching my case fans back on - got 2 x 80mm on the side, and 2 x 80mm on the top. Only problem is, sounds like a plane taking off when I have them all on :D
egad (http://dirtynuke.net/images/huge_fan3.jpg).
Just as I suspected, most of us are getting the same exact errors in our logs. The Check Files button fixed a bunch of graphics errors, maybe they should have it also check sound files? Then we can auto dl the missing sound files and cut our errors down by at least half. I don't think it would require that much work on their part.
imo there should be either a third party program, or more preferably somthing by kk, to allow us to auto submit our error logs, and maybe the callstack log too, send them to the bugs email address at kk. I don't think it'd be that hard to put another button in the launcher that emails the log and deletes it from your computer. Martin at one point said they don't recieve many crash logs and so don't see any major problems in stability with neocron. I believe they don't recieve many because we hafta go out of our way to do it. Most players are more interested in getting back into the game as fast as possible after crashing. Maybe you jus synched into pepper park or maybe you're in the graves with angry snakes around you. The last thing on your mind is opening up an email program and sending the logs to kk. If you put it in the launcher, I think most of us can spare an extra click to submit the error log before we get back into the game. I'll bet the number of error reports they recieve would jump 200% at least, if they did this. When they recieve 100 error.logs every few hours all with the same exact error, maybe they'll fix it : )
@celt he only said it was a myth because he didnt know the direct reason because of them. maybe he could have written it in a better context but he didn't and he prolly thought it was harmess to call it a myth because of the million and one reasons there have come up behind them.
Reason #75 this community has way too many ignorant fucks.
Myth - You know what you are talking about
This was just a suggestion out of hundreds of reasons people could FRE. I wasn't saying FREs had nothing to do with the game code. NOT ALL FREs ARE RELATED TO THE GAME CODE. Yes, tons of FREs *are* from errors in the game code. But is *is* a myth that all the FREs are due to game code errors.
When your cpu overheats (or your gpu for that fact, this problem doesn't just apply to your CPU temp), or runs warmer than usual, your cpu can execute perfectly fine code incorrectly, leading to a crash. Just like your Harddrive running to hot can corrupt your swap file and give you page faults, leading to a crash. Same thing with your GPU, if it's warmer than it should be, it can generate code errors that do not exist. It's call hardware is not perfect and can fuck up code that is written write.
so you found your FRE problem... to bad the rest of us dont have that issue.
Um, yeah I'm the only person in the world who has a cooling problem.... could people be more naive? If you have an Athlon XP with the default HSF, you probably DO run warmer than normal. If you have some store bought PC, they probably skimped on ventilation.
If this problem doesn't apply to YOU, fine, say so, but don't slander my post because your almight PC still crashes and you're sure it's cooled right. People can benefit from checking out their cooling situation. Why are people posting "omg stfu you have no idea what you're talking about noob" replies to a post that is just giving advice to help people?
Just because you may not have as many problems, don't ruin our experience by convincing KK there's no problems with their code.
I am not saying FREs aren't always NC or KK's fault.
I am not saying most FRE's aren't code related.
I am not saying everyone's PC is overheating.
I am not saying bad drivers or software won't cause an FRE.
I am not saying a properly cooled PC will fix all your FREs.
I am saying too many people in this community are selfish, ignorant shits who have egos way too big for this forum.
Originally posted by Lathuc
@celt he only said it was a myth because he didnt know the direct reason because of them. maybe he could have written it in a better context but he didn't and he prolly thought it was harmess to call it a myth because of the million and one reasons there have come up behind them.
Thank you. I don't know the direct reason behind every FRE, but I *do* know that if my CPU runs are 45-50 degrees, along with whatever my case and gpu temps are, I will crash 5+ times an hour. Running my CPU at 25-30 degrees gives me *maybe* 1 or 2 FREs a day. That's a fact. If it's my wording that made people feel the need to jump on this thread and post how "clueless" I am, get a life. I'm just trying to help out people who may not know this affects their gaming.
I still hope this post let's a few ppl check out their systems and run a little cooler, but I'm not coming back to this post because I can't stand half the people here.
shodanjr_gr
08-03-04, 00:43
Originally posted by Archeus
NC is using an old gfx engine which whacks your CPU more then your GPU. I believe they even mention it in the BDOY details that this is something that is being fixed with BDOY.
I am totally aware of that.
Still this is no reason for it to crash whenever it fucking feels like it...
I just hate the whole "deny everything" logic about the game engine. KK pretending its perfect while it is far from that for like 90% of the customer base.
:lol: FRE's have nothing to do with overheating! like many ppl said, if that is the case for games crashing why is it only nc that does it? i have ut dump me to desktop once every blue moon....and it comes up with info WHY it crashed, and it does _not_ say "CPU TEMP = TO HOT!!" my pc runs about 50c when doing anything, playing games or doing nothing....i fre about once every 2hrs (and thats generous).....the only thing that has reduced my fre's is upgrading my pc....used to have athlon 1.6@1ghz/ some slow ass motherboard/ gf4ti4600/ 512ddr 266mhz and i would fre about 4 times every 2 hr's with fps of about 20 - 30 max....now i got athlon 2.8@2.3ghz/ 400mb fsb motherboard/ the same gf4ti4600 / 512 ddr 400mhz and my fre's reduced by half with fps of about 40 - 50 in crowded places...60 - 70 normally and on 512k connection.
Originally posted by -FN-
Myth - FRE is some error in the engine, netcode, or something KK coded.
[/B]
I think it was this that got everyone excited.
Basically it looks like you are saying "KK aren't responsible for FRE's, so fix it yourself"
You probably didn't mean that, but it looks like that's what you said which is why so many people are flaming like crazy.
This is a job for... MythBusters (http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/mythbusters.html).
Shadow Dancer
08-03-04, 01:09
Poor FN.
FN you're right, some people overreacted to your post, but it was probably due to the way you worded it and the way it indirectly(even if not intentional) ignored any possible error on the part of KK and placed it solely on the user.
Know what i mean?
Right now my processor is at 58 degrees. It'll go up to about 65 degrees until at some point my entire computer will lock up for some reason that I still cannot determine.
Anyway, I haven't experienced a lot of FREs at all. This week I've had a grand total of about 5, and those are all in the 'regular' spots that I seem to get them in; sync lines. That, along with some just randomly out in the wastes or in NC.
However, I do think there is some slight truth to the idea. My friends computer runs at a steady 38 in Neocron and he's fataled once and had a sync error once in the 2 weeks he's been playing.
Again, if you want to see if your CPU heat is causing ANY sort of instability, download prime95 and run a torture test on your system for a day straight
This program will report the most mundane and infantessimally (sp) small rounding errors that would be attributed to instability.
The only "way" that your CPU heat could cause instability would be if the grade of silicon (which determines the maximum operating speed of the CPU, which is why to overclock you need to add more voltage to run at a speed that a more expensive, higher grade chip can run at) would be if (against all odds) your chips quality was such that it enabled your chip to run at the designated speed *JUST BARELY* and the heat causes more resistance and thus makes it unstable (it would in a sense be "underclocking" your chips voltage, but again this is a VERY TINY amount and odds are if this were occuring quality control would have noticed and it would be rare one would slip by)
As for what else has been said - You take a solid program like 3DMark which tests your graphics, you take a program like prime95 which tests your cpu and you take a program like memtest86 that tests your memory. If your system can pass long (and by long I mean a week or more STRAIGHT) of these then you can call your system stable. It might not be "control system for all the worlds nuclear weapons"-grade stable, but it's fucking stable for home use. Tell me, how a system that passes all these [for example, MINE - yes I've left mine on for over a week doing intense number crunching to test for stability, as well as a week of dedicated graphics, and a week of dedicated memory. Such is the life of a hardcore overclocked.] yet FREs countless times per hour ... how can this be a result of ANYTHING other than the game engine or the way it's implimented (the windows API)
And even if you want to lean towards the windows API being to blame, you have to ask yourself why other programs don't do this then? My only conclusion I guess could be the software-rendering of it all, there hasn't been a lot of bother with it I don't think and most hardware is probably most QC/scrutinized over with it's 3d rendering performance.
We'll see what's up with BDoY, then come back to the issue. If it's not fixed by then, I will be expecting refund of my money for BDoY or I will start some shit.
Ok, I donīt get a lot of FREs
but there are still times when I get 2 or 3 in a row.
but mostly its max 8 per day.
my CPU never goes above 35 degrees.
.... just wanted to share that..
You wouldnīt get a FRE if it was overheating.. then you would get the good old :
windows has executed an illegal operation and has shut it down.
an illegal operation has been detected in 004449785927487ee39807510809542 and has been shut down.
but not an FRE.
Therefore it must be an engine bug triggered by something. or activated when certain thing happens that wasnīt meant to happen.
shodanjr_gr
08-03-04, 09:47
Well let me share my temperature too.
40'Celcius while playing NC. And i still FRE like a bitch (1 or 2 per hour).
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
I am totally aware of that.
Still this is no reason for it to crash whenever it fucking feels like it...
I just hate the whole "deny everything" logic about the game engine. KK pretending its perfect while it is far from that for like 90% of the customer base.
The original poster was pointing out a possible cause of SOME FREs. It is not the sole cause and I don't recall anyone saying that except that those claim its not a cause.
Bad network connection can cause it, Zone crashing can cause it, a third party can cause it, mis-configuring windows can cause it, and general bugs can cause it.
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