View Full Version : Money/Inventory Doy whipes?
Well we know charicters will be spared when the dome of york finnaly graces us with its presence. But this brings up a few important questions...
- Will cash be reset?
- Will inventorys be whiped?
- Gogu whipe?
- Since a new apartment system is being added in, Will all contents of the old apartments be erased?
- Stock-X new system = whipe?
An official responce is requested...
All no's. Reakktor has said that furnished appartments will be available to newbies, as well as the non furnished ones, and that nothing will be wiped come Doy.
and you would be.......?
:p
Originally posted by StrongSad
and you would be.......?
:p
Someone who spends way too much time on these forums. :)
I have seen the official responces from other threads. What I have said are the official statements from reakktor.
I only heard charicters wernt being whiped can you link me to that statment?
Originally posted by G.0.D.
I only heard charicters wernt being whiped can you link me to that statment?
I doubt i could find it. The search option is a bitch, and it might have been written a while ago. I am sure somebody else will be able to back up what I just said though.
Originally posted by Benjie
Someone who spends way too much time on these forums. :)
I have seen the official responces from other threads. What I have said are the official statements from reakktor.
:rolleyes: lol i dont mind starting again for DOY = men from the boys :D
Originally posted by L3m0n
:rolleyes: lol i dont mind starting again for DOY = men from the boys :D
That sentance makes absolutely no sence to me.
o_O
hell yeah!
wipe all the servers of all chars!
yeeehaaaa, that would make me happy...
You too i hope?
Originally posted by Xylaz
hell yeah!
wipe all the servers of all chars!
yeeehaaaa, that would make me happy...
You too i hope?
Um no, otherwise KK just ripped everyone off for the past few months with a statement chars will be kept. Yeah let's level characters for a few months just to have them deleted. That makes no sense, luckily KK isn't stupid and realizes that'd piss a lot of the community off having fully capped characters deleted.
Psyco Groupie
06-03-04, 21:53
since when did wipe have a H ?
no offence Lemon but if they did wipe everything for DOY(and they have said they aint anyway but)me and my 3 accounts would walk, cos i having all my items taken away from meh, soe of those items i spend fair amount of time getting.
ive still got my first rares, my psi core and my holy lightning from early retail, ive grown attached to em, and i aint even got a char who can use the HL now:lol:
Richard Angelus
06-03-04, 22:23
no charwipe.....
but they said nothing about a item wipe.....as i saw
if they wipe i think they will not wipe everything (important for ppl who collect ingame items that are no longer available)
If they do wipe the items, im gonna be so pissed off. Also, dont you think that people who have actual Neocron accounts ALREADY should get DOY free? Its stupid how they are making us pay to play a game we have been paying for for ages...
Originally posted by [CiX]Brad
If they do wipe the items, im gonna be so pissed off. Also, dont you think that people who have actual Neocron accounts ALREADY should get DOY free? Its stupid how they are making us pay to play a game we have been paying for for ages... not really, if you own AO, you still have to pay for the expansions, or everquest,UO expansions have to be paid for
Heavyporker
06-03-04, 22:57
yeah, and that B:DoY is definitely beyond a mere expansion - its a heavy-duty rework.
Originally posted by G.0.D.
Well we know charicters will be spared when the dome of york finnaly graces us with its presence. But this brings up a few important questions...
- Will cash be reset?
No
- Will inventorys be whiped?
No
- Gogu whipe?
No
- Since a new apartment system is being added in, Will all contents of the old apartments be erased?
Seeing as people will be able to buy the same standard furnished apps and non-furnished, I think it's safe to say no.
- Stock-X new system = whipe?
Seeing as the stock-x gets whiped inadvertently every patch or two, I wouldn't be suprised.
Heavyporker
06-03-04, 23:05
damn, so our current pre-furnished apts won't be able to be renovated come BDoY? nuts.
I'd hopoed to at least shift some of the furniture.
There wont be a wipe, but IF there was one, I dont think I could take it. Example, I just need 1 more SA, and 1 herc, and Im done with mc5. I thought I would do it more just to get tradeable parts for normal stuff... but I just cant stand doing it anymore... its like torture. Same with my spy... the last 10 levels of dex were just pure torture, and ive stopped leveling my melee tank for now, I just cant take it. If theres a fresh server, or a neptune, I doubt ill go.... I just cant take any more leveling or mc5ing or tech part hunting... i just wanna pvp.
Those of you saying NO it wont happen, how do you know this? can you link me to a statment where KK says they wont... It would make me feal so much sexkier
Martin J. Schwiezer + http://forum.neocron.com/images/top_search.gif
Do your own homework you lazy bastard.
Originally posted by G.0.D.
Well we know charicters will be spared when the dome of york finnaly graces us with its presence. But this brings up a few important questions...
- Will cash be reset?
- Will inventorys be whiped?
- Gogu whipe?
- Since a new apartment system is being added in, Will all contents of the old apartments be erased?
- Stock-X new system = whipe?
An official responce is requested...
dude. its an expansion.
its not the end of beta and begining of retail as buggy as our current retail state may be.
I'd still like to see an official responce ... or a link to one, or something to that nature.
I'm serious here, If I lost everything that I worked a million hours for I would quit, period.
tbh i would love a char wipe. I know it will never happen...but i play the game to play it, not to have as much stuff as i can and hoard it. If there was a server where everyone got a item wipe every month and a char wipe every two, that'd be fucking awesome. Rares would literally be rare, char's would rarely/never be capped..and everyone could experiment without "losing their pvp" edge. Everyone complains it's too much work farming techies, but there's SOOO much more to do in nc than that.
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 09:31
ugh, if there was an item wipe that would really suck.
I can't take anymore mob hunting. I wish we could gain XP by pvping.
And wish there was some faction reward system that allowed us to get items by pvping as well.
If they wipe, I and many others will leave for good. I've worked far too hard for my stuff.
Richard Angelus
07-03-04, 10:45
I do a search......
MJS + wipe
-> only one statement (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1088872&highlight=wipe#post1088872) .....
charwipe != item or money wipe
so no is the wrong answer (besides you can link a other statement)
/Edit: oh but yes is wrong too :D
Easy way to do it is have DOY have it's own currency and not allow NC credits.
There will be no char whipe otherwise WoC wouldnt be available.
KK has begun the item whiping a long time ago tho !
90 % of the people i know have already lost their inventory and apps at least once........
damn bugs
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I can't take anymore mob hunting. I wish we could gain XP by pvping.
lol i feel your pain there, i hate hunting(more than i hate overpowered monks:lol: )
Originally posted by VetteroX
There wont be a wipe, but IF there was one, I dont think I could take it. Example, I just need 1 more SA, and 1 herc, and Im done with mc5. I thought I would do it more just to get tradeable parts for normal stuff... but I just cant stand doing it anymore... its like torture. Same with my spy... the last 10 levels of dex were just pure torture, and ive stopped leveling my melee tank for now, I just cant take it. If theres a fresh server, or a neptune, I doubt ill go.... I just cant take any more leveling or mc5ing or tech part hunting... i just wanna pvp.
amen
its just the same for me
I don't think so, but if it did happen I would quit
I've been gathering items for the player run shops
Originally posted by Drake6k
I'm serious here, If I lost everything that I worked a million hours for I would quit, period.
No offense to you Drake6k, just using your statement as an example. This is what was meant by the comment in the beginning "Men from Boys".
I care just as much about the stuff I have in game, but what's MORE valuable than the stuff I've accumulated in-game, is the time I spend in it and the ppl I've met in-game and the friends I've gotten as a result from my time. I am all for a total wipe or new server required for DoY, even tho there won't be either of those. I'd be in-game, reaccumulating stuff. The important part is I'd be in-game, not that I have a bunch of stuff.
But I've also already lost everything I accumulated from the beginning of retail to about the beginning of last summer thanks to being hacked and restored without my apartments.
And I still get a kick out of everyone saying they "worked" so hard for their stuff...
If playing Neocron is "work" to you, you need to get a new and/or real job :p It's about having fun, not putting hours in so you get some sort of reward... at least not to me *shrug*
Come on! You know you want it!
Let's make a poll and everyone vote to permanently delete all our characters and equipment and stuff... We will all start as a noobs in BDoY, therefore we couldn't complain about anything cause noobs are simply ignored and told by everyone to STFU or some other nice acronyms...
But seriously - i really want a character wipe... It'd do more good than u could ever imagine...
As G.0.D. said, this is the release of an expansion, not the end of beta.
:rolleyes:
Victor Crowe
07-03-04, 17:51
Originally posted by Xylaz
But seriously - i really want a character wipe... I'd do more good than u could ever imagine...
And that is why?
A char or item wipe would be just pointless. The powergamers would have their stuff sorted out withhin a week max, the causual gamers would be screwed. Besides, you cant even imagine how many people would leave NC when their stuff and/or chars get wiped. The problem with wipes is quite simple: after a wipe, why should you bother to go the same route again knowing it could happen again for "no reason". What is the points. MMORPGs are persistent worlds...persistent!
AFAIC my "characters" include their items, apts, cash and stocks not just their stats and names.
If KK wipe any of that I'll leave. I came very close last time their shitty database wasted several months of work by accident. I certainly won't stay if they do it on purpose.
The "sort the men from the boys" thing is BS. Within a month normality will resume. It won't be like the start of retail because more people know more ways to get things done.
And that is why?
well, let's see
- first of all, the so called STFU'ers would probably left the game, which would increase constant grow of the player base
- new, non-inflated economy, tradeskillers would gain their value again (of course, it wouldn't hold long on a multichar servers but they're messed up anyways)
- new chance for changing political stituation - new alliances actually could be created and new powers could grown up without beeing smashed by the mega-clans
those are the most important points, i could probably think of few more, but even only those makes me dreaming of character wipe...
edit - i didn't say anything about roleplay because it's the secret part of my malicious plan...
Originally posted by Xylaz
well, let's see
- first of all, the so called STFU'ers would probably left the game, which would increase constant grow of the player base
- new, non-inflated economy, tradeskillers would gain their value again (of course, it wouldn't hold long on a multichar servers but they're messed up anyways)
- new chance for changing political stituation - new alliances actually could be created and new powers could grown up without beeing smashed by the mega-clans
those are the most important points, i could probably think of few more, but even only those makes me dreaming of character wipe...
edit - i didn't say anything about roleplay because it's the secret part of my malicious plan...
and I would have paid 14 months for what? to get my chars wiped? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Xylaz
well, let's see
- first of all, the so called STFU'ers would probably left the game, which would increase constant grow of the player base
How does driving off at least half the population constitute growth? (one poll of many that shows people don't want this (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83685))
Originally posted by Xylaz
- new, non-inflated economy, tradeskillers would gain their value again (of course, it wouldn't hold long on a multichar servers but they're messed up anyways)
Assuming you think the current economy is broken, which I don't, you will make matters far worse by wiping the servers. Those who want money/items will get them again in a week or so and the lazy ones won't even have the benefit of a healthy economy to feed from. The wealth gap will be 10x worse.
Originally posted by Xylaz
- new chance for changing political stituation - new alliances actually could be created and new powers could grown up without beeing smashed by the mega-clans
The same groups will form up to powerlevel at startup. If anything you'll see even bigger mega-clans as they race to get the first CS, FL, capped tank, etc.
Originally posted by SirRah
and I would have paid 14 months for what? to get my chars wiped? :rolleyes:
No u paid for the 14 months of enjoying this game (hopefully).
Anyways, i'd gladly paid for that...
Originally posted by jernau
Assuming you think the current economy is broken, which I don't, you will make matters far worse by wiping the servers. Those who want money/items will get them again in a week or so and the lazy ones won't even have the benefit of a healthy economy to feed from. The wealth gap will be 10x worse.
The same groups will form up to powerlevel at startup. If anything you'll see even bigger mega-clans as they race to get the first CS, FL, capped tank, etc. [/B]
Well, there could be a chance of changing this, at least. Now we don't have any.
Still, i consider ur scenario a pessimistic one. Most of the powergamers would leave anyway (as this was a part of my secret plan...haha) so character wipe could actually create some potential. Of course they would be powergaming groups, but they are also here, nonetheless. My point is it should give everyone a good and fair start.
Wealth gap couldn't be worse as it is now, because it has the limitation within the game mechanics. Powergamers' clans would have been forced to fight for their own along with every other and even if they had 10 times greater chances than others, they would still had to defeat the competitors.
Now everyone's simply bored, not much to gain and nothing's challenging enough, world is frozen and nothing ever happens. Such situtation simply provokes anarchy...
And actually i think most players would enjoy such wipe, even if they are against it now.
i enjoyed this game cuz i achieved something and now you wanna take this away from me...
i paid 14 months money for my monk to make to this what he is now. this is how i enjoyed this game. so when you take this away from me it feels like i paid 14 months for nothing.
everybody enjoys this game in a different way. with a char wipe you will just piss everybody off who enjoy what they achieved.....
Originally posted by Xylaz
hell yeah!
wipe all the servers of all chars!
yeeehaaaa, that would make me happy...
You too i hope?
If they wipe all the servers i would like compensation for the money and time already spent playing their damn game.
Fuck wiping.
How many other games do you see that wipe their player's characters/inventories etc?
As far as I know, none do.
Certainly UO never did, expansions come out, you pay for them and carry on playing whether with a new char or your old ones.
You can talk about how much you should just "enjoy" the game as much as you want, but you still have to WORK ingame to get results, and that's sometimes tedious.
So yeah, fuck wiping.
Originally posted by Organics
Fuck wiping.
How many other games do you see that wipe their player's characters/inventories etc?
As far as I know, none do.
Certainly UO never did, expansions come out, you pay for them and carry on playing whether with a new char or your old ones.
You can talk about how much you should just "enjoy" the game as much as you want, but you still have to WORK ingame to get results, and that's sometimes tedious.
So yeah, fuck wiping.
yes of course...
i am clearly aware that this probably never happen, it was just a provocation i needed to get to prove some of my points. So don't worry about it so much... heh - it seems i am bored as everyone else around... maybe i should start pkiling noobs?
Pkers are usually to hard to find, and those who aren't are usually guarded by ppus or simply too tough for me... but noobs should be easy... hmm^^
wipe wipe wipe!
People have way to much stuff, we'll never have a stable economy as long as we're allowed to keep our hoards of valuables.
Originally posted by Carinth
wipe wipe wipe!
People have way to much stuff, we'll never have a stable economy as long as we're allowed to keep our hoards of valuables.
Funny, getting rid of quickbelts and safeslots would do the same thing.
Originally posted by Carinth
wipe wipe wipe!
People have way to much stuff, we'll never have a stable economy as long as we're allowed to keep our hoards of valuables.
What will a wipe accomplish? Nothing, 6 months later the remaining people who haven't quit in disgust the servers will be an unstable economy.
What they can do is make all anti-city people have DOY currency which you loose in exchange rates from faction switching.
Originally posted by Marx
Funny, getting rid of quickbelts and safeslots would do the same thing.
Empty the servers of even more players you mean? o_O
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 20:23
I have an idea. Let's wipe everything, then all the players who wanted a wipe can level up chars and gain items for the players who didn't want a wipe. You know, since releveling tedious ass chars and killing 500 grim chasers for tech parts doesn't bother them one bit.
Everybody wins that way. We don't have to do boring ass leveling and item collecting to get back stuff we earned, and they get to have the wipe they want.
What's the problem?
:rolleyes:
I've heard some crappy pro-wipe arguements. Like the "this is supposed to be a whole new game" comment. Yea, a whole new game that you can play without, MJS said so himelf, when it comes out. You don't even need it to continue playing.
A whole new game with the same classes, same op system, oh but you can furnish apartments. Look at all the "sneak peeks" they have given us, nothing so far screams "NEW GAME" to me.
:rolleyes:
Why don't you look at WHY The economy gets fucked and try to fix that? Add more time sincs, better item drops in pvp, etc....
We'll wipe, and then have a good economy for about 1 month. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:@players who want a wipe
Clownst0pper
07-03-04, 20:37
Do u sad gits have your head's up your arses?
Just because some of you cant even get a fucking slotted vein ripper, never mind a DS u want to punish the rest of us who have more intelligance than a Nat's bollock and actually get posetions worth something?
the answer to the thread starter is read all the other spam before you make another stupid thread.
It will all remain, if it doesnt, KK can suck my stump! :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I have an idea. Let's wipe everything, then all the players who wanted a wipe can level up chars and gain items for the players who didn't want a wipe. You know, since releveling tedious ass chars and killing 500 grim chasers for tech parts doesn't bother them one bit.
Everybody wins that way. We don't have to do boring ass leveling and item collecting to get back stuff we earned, and they get to have the wipe they want.
What's the problem?
:rolleyes:
I've heard some crappy pro-wipe arguements. Like the "this is supposed to be a whole new game" comment. Yea, a whole new game that you can play without, MJS said so himelf, when it comes out. You don't even need it to continue playing.
A whole new game with the same classes, same op system, oh but you can furnish apartments. Look at all the "sneak peeks" they have given us, nothing so far screams "NEW GAME" to me.
:rolleyes:
Why don't you look at WHY The economy gets fucked and try to fix that? Add more time sincs, better item drops in pvp, etc....
We'll wipe, and then have a good economy for about 1 month. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:@players who want a wipe
100% truth here.
Shadaow got it on the dot 100%
The anti wipe side is just as bad, shadow : ) "everyone will quit" "i worked hard for my stuff"
Having items drop more doesn't realy help. That just circulates the items around. A wipe itself doesn't improve the economy, since it wouldn't be long before we're back were we are now. But neither would fixing the economy be enough. What good is a working system when we already fubard? You need to do both, setup a functioning system and then wipe the players so they will conform to the new economy. Instead of breaking it.
I could go on and on about how much a wipe would improve things, but I know it'd be wasted breath. There are three basic kinds of players and they will never agree.
The first group hates working, they despise having to level and farm rares. For them the only enjoyment in the game is at endgame, once they've finnaly done all the crap they can start having fun. In simpler terms, they enjoy the goal not the journey.
The second group is opposite, they enjoy doing work. Leveling up and gathering equipment is fun, it's rewarding because you put a certain amount of work in and you get a instant reward, ie new weapons you can use or new abilities. Endgame isn't much fun for them because there's nolonger any set goals for you to complete. They'll soon get bored and reroll, because the enjoy the journey not the goal.
The last group is a mix, they enjoy both. It's possible to have fun while leveling and when capped. Wether they're killing rats, killing snakes, hunting warbots, beating up grim chasers, defending an op, or hunting down some punk in pepper park. They're having fun.
This covers everyone, I've seen some of each type ingame. The first group is the largest, which I was suprised to find out. The second is the smallest and the third is in the middle. The first group is against a wipe while the other two are for it. It's no suprise that posts about it recieve so much hostility. We have a basic difference in how we play the game and there's no common ground.
I had an awesome time each of the 4 times I've started over. 3 were because of a wipe and the 4th was a reroll. Pluto's opening was a lot of fun, money was actualy valuable and people were interacting much more. Noone had huge stashes they could sit on and be self suficient. It took me several months, but I eventualy capped and then had fun in pvp. That's why I've been happy with my character ever since and havn't rerolled. Until now, I'm seriously considering rerolling. It's not the work involved in starting over that is holding me back. I know I'd have fun starting starting over. It's just a question of when I've given up entirely on having fun with my current character.
That's why any arguments against a wipe seem silly to me. It's mostly people who want to keep their stuff or hate doing the work to get were they are again. But I figure my point of view must seem equaly silly to others, so I'm not gonna attempt to backup why I think we should have a wipe.
Of your three types I am type 3 - at least I'm not not 1 or 2.
I am against any wipe.
I don't think you can speak for everyone, even by proxy, using such generalisations.
Carinth.
Wiping won't solve anything because the problem will still exist.
Sure, no symptoms will be visable for a bit, and most would think the problem is in check - but in a month or two, the problem would be alive and well again.
You can take painkillers to cover the pain of a cavity, or you can get it filled or the tooth removed.
Which is better?
Shadow Dancer
07-03-04, 22:25
Originally posted by jernau
I don't think you can speak for everyone, even by proxy, using such generalisations.
Exactly.
Oh and car, the anti wipe arguement seems silly because the players want to keep their stuff and don't want to do that work again?
So you're assuming that everyone will be like you and "enjoy" doing all that again when they start over?
The only silly side is yours, no offense. Because the only difference is you wanna FORCE your play style on everyone else. Whereas no one is forcing you to keep your stuff or char.
thx
I don't see how "i worked hard for my stuff" is a crappy arguement. Please tell me how that's crappy? It's a FACT! Especially with MC5. If mc5 isn't "work", then I don't know what the hell is. It's silly that people wanna keep stuff they earned? Why is that silly?
That's like me saying it's silly that people like tradeskilling. Or that people like RPing. "huh huh huh, it's silly that people don't enjoy what I do, huh huh huh".
O_o
Tell ya what. Make leveling and item hunting fun. And I won't mind a wipe. Make me gain xp by PvPing, or gain items by competing in a battledome, and i'll have no problem starting over.
But if you want me to kill 500 persecutors again, and do 3084730984738 cave runs just to get decent int, just because you THINK that'll fix the economy. Think again.
Here's a good compromise.
New server. Nuff said. KK should make one, so all 10 pro-wipe players can have fun starting over again.
I'm sure you can't disagree with a new server.
Btw, how many chars have you leveled up car, since retail? Aside from carinth I mean.
I think it's outrageous that you don't even recognize, that some players are sick to fucking death of leveling and hunting car. Ok? Do you get that through your head? Do I say you're being selfish, because you don't want to participate in PvP or ppu me? No, when you die in PP, and you act like the world ended because you have to reorganize your inventory, I UNDERSTAND that and tell you you dn't have to do anything. Just take a break. No one is forcing you to pvp. etc...
I love PvP. And I know that at one point, you were absolutely sick to death of it.
The flip side, how you felt then after getting paraspammed in pp1, losing a 5 slot holy heal, and being forced to get another one and reorganize your inv, that's how I feel about pvm. I just can't do it anymore. IT's too much frustration and boringNESS. If that's a word.....
And if you think you can just fix the economy by fixing the system and wiping, you're STILL wrong. Powergamers will still powergame. I swear, there hasn't been 1 mmorpg I've played where people didn't think the economy was screwed. What about the next money exploit? What happens then when a few players or clans abuse an exploit till KK fixes it. Bam, another wipe for you?
Oh, a big patch and some more new players? How about another wipe.
I don't have faith in KK to fully fix the system after any possible wipe. Sorry but I just don't. And what happens if their "fix" is bad, and the economy starts going bad again because they wait 5 months before patching another "fix" like they always do?
pfffttt, plz.
I already said it's not arguable, there's no way I could convince you or even make you see it from my perspective. Yes I think it's silly to place that much value in items in a game. You see items as representing work done, so to get rid of the items is to erase the work. I see items as the result of work done, getting rid of the items won't change that I did the work and got a reward for it. Forcing my point of view on others? You're doing the same to me, so I don't really see the argument. Me rerolling has nothing to do with a wipe. You are using them as if they're the same thing. Me rerolling has no effect on the economy, it won't make money valuable or make rares actualy rare.
I also already said that wiping alone doesn't fix the economy, nor would any actual fix make a difference. It's a combination of both that would do it. Fix the system so it produces a balanced economy, then wipe the players so a balanced economy is possible. How can you balance without having people get rid of their stashes? I havn't seen any solutions that would change much aside from maybe making it harder for newer players without abundant resources already gotten. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a balanced economy and give up your stuff or you accept an imbalanced one.
Originally posted by jernau
Of your three types I am type 3 - at least I'm not not 1 or 2.
I am against any wipe.
I don't think you can speak for everyone, even by proxy, using such generalisations.
Why are you against a wipe? If you think hunting and leveling is fun then why would you be against doing more of it? If you value the work you've done or the items you've gained too much then you are in catagory 1.
Originally posted by Carinth
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a balanced economy and give up your stuff or you accept an imbalanced one.
I think you need to define a "balanced economy" there. IMO the NC economy is fine. It is in the rare position amongst MMOs that anyone can achieve any wealth and obtain (almost) any item by putting in a reasonable amount of effort and yet some items are still percieved as valuable or rare.
Even if you don't agree with that - a wipe won't change a thing so you need another reason to support having one.
Originally posted by Carinth
Why are you against a wipe? If you think hunting and leveling is fun then why would you be against doing more of it? If you value the work you've done or the items you've gained too much then you are in catagory 1.
I enjoy both - losing either would destroy half my game.
Originally posted by Carinth
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a balanced economy and give up your stuff or you accept an imbalanced one.
-
Originally posted by Marx
Carinth.
Wiping won't solve anything because the problem will still exist.
Sure, no symptoms will be visable for a bit, and most would think the problem is in check - but in a month or two, the problem would be alive and well again.
You can take painkillers to cover the pain of a cavity, or you can get it filled or the tooth removed.
Which is better?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Exactly.
Oh and car, the anti wipe arguement seems silly because the players want to keep their stuff and don't want to do that work again?
So you're assuming that everyone will be like you and "enjoy" doing all that again when they start over?
The only silly side is yours, no offense. Because the only difference is you wanna FORCE your play style on everyone else. Whereas no one is forcing you to keep your stuff or char.
thx
I don't see how "i worked hard for my stuff" is a crappy arguement. Please tell me how that's crappy? It's a FACT! Especially with MC5. If mc5 isn't "work", then I don't know what the hell is. It's silly that people wanna keep stuff they earned? Why is that silly?
That's like me saying it's silly that people like tradeskilling. Or that people like RPing. "huh huh huh, it's silly that people don't enjoy what I do, huh huh huh".
O_o
Tell ya what. Make leveling and item hunting fun. And I won't mind a wipe. Make me gain xp by PvPing, or gain items by competing in a battledome, and i'll have no problem starting over.
But if you want me to kill 500 persecutors again, and do 3084730984738 cave runs just to get decent int, just because you THINK that'll fix the economy. Think again.
Here's a good compromise.
New server. Nuff said. KK should make one, so all 10 pro-wipe players can have fun starting over again.
I'm sure you can't disagree with a new server.
Btw, how many chars have you leveled up car, since retail? Aside from carinth I mean.
I think it's outrageous that you don't even recognize, that some players are sick to fucking death of leveling and hunting car. Ok? Do you get that through your head? Do I say you're being selfish, because you don't want to participate in PvP or ppu me? No, when you die in PP, and you act like the world ended because you have to reorganize your inventory, I UNDERSTAND that and tell you you dn't have to do anything. Just take a break. No one is forcing you to pvp. etc...
I love PvP. And I know that at one point, you were absolutely sick to death of it.
The flip side, how you felt then after getting paraspammed in pp1, losing a 5 slot holy heal, and being forced to get another one and reorganize your inv, that's how I feel about pvm. I just can't do it anymore. IT's too much frustration and boringNESS. If that's a word.....
And if you think you can just fix the economy by fixing the system and wiping, you're STILL wrong. Powergamers will still powergame. I swear, there hasn't been 1 mmorpg I've played where people didn't think the economy was screwed. What about the next money exploit? What happens then when a few players or clans abuse an exploit till KK fixes it. Bam, another wipe for you?
Oh, a big patch and some more new players? How about another wipe.
I don't have faith in KK to fully fix the system after any possible wipe. Sorry but I just don't. And what happens if their "fix" is bad, and the economy starts going bad again because they wait 5 months before patching another "fix" like they always do?
pfffttt, plz.
Agreed.
Well said SD.
Fuck wipes.
Resort to a wipe everytime something isn't going your way?
No.
Thx.
If you are so set on a wipe Carinth, just delete your chars when BDOY rolls around, that way everyone is happy including you since you can have the fun and enjoyment of leveling/capping your chars again. :rolleyes:
Because wiping won't fix the economy properly, so you might as well do that.
Originally posted by Marx
Carinth.
Wiping won't solve anything because the problem will still exist.
Sure, no symptoms will be visable for a bit, and most would think the problem is in check - but in a month or two, the problem would be alive and well again.
You can take painkillers to cover the pain of a cavity, or you can get it filled or the tooth removed.
Which is better?
Originally posted by Carinth
I also already said that wiping alone doesn't fix the economy, nor would any actual fix make a difference. It's a combination of both that would do it. Fix the system so it produces a balanced economy, then wipe the players so a balanced economy is possible. How can you balance without having people get rid of their stashes? I havn't seen any solutions that would change much aside from maybe making it harder for newer players without abundant resources already gotten. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you want a balanced economy and give up your stuff or you accept an imbalanced one.
If you have your tooth removed or cavity filled without painkillers, you will be pretty miserable. I'm saying both should be done, neither will work alone. The cake reference was about those that want balance without giving up anything.
Originally posted by Carinth
If you have your tooth removed or cavity filled without painkillers, you will be pretty miserable. I'm saying both should be done, neither will work alone.
But if the problem is solved, then it wouldn't be a problem - would it?
Therefore, the wipe would be unjustified.
Shadow Dancer
08-03-04, 01:00
Originally posted by Carinth
I already said it's not arguable, there's no way I could convince you or even make you see it from my perspective.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Carinth
You see items as representing work done, so to get rid of the items is to erase the work. I see items as the result of work done, getting rid of the items won't change that I did the work and got a reward for it.
Can you rephrase? Because honestly that makes no sense.
Would you work at a job if you didn't get paid?
What if your money got taken away before you could use it? What if people had rares or items they were saving in case of X situation. What if those items got wiped before they ever used it. That's work wasted. I honestly don't see your point. You're right that getting rid of items won't change the fact that we worked for it and got rewarded. But it would take away the reward. So it makes work pointless in the first goddamn place. :rolleyes:
And again you don't acknowledge how horribly boring and frustrating leveling and item collecting is to some people. THAT is what many people are against.
Originally posted by Carinth
Forcing my point of view on others? You're doing the same to me,
Really, how so?
Originally posted by Carinth
Me rerolling has no effect on the economy, it won't make money valuable or make rares actualy rare.
Yea, making rares actually rare is a good thing right.
Not.
When rares have nothing to do with pvp and give no special advantage over other people in pvp, then you can make them "truly" rare. So you can have "fun" and "enjoyment" hunting 500000000000000 stupid chasers for tech parts. That is, until the next wipe when the economy gets fucked again.
Originally posted by Carinth
Either you want a balanced economy and give up your stuff or you accept an imbalanced one.
Or maybe some people don't think the economy is that screwed.
*GASP*
I have an idea car. Why don't you research 500 TL 120 drones?
I am DEAD serious. No? Why not? Oh, it's incredibly boring and you hate research? Ahhh, but I don't give a shit what you find fun or boring. *I* have fun doing it, therefore you should do it too.
Btw Car, what about the idea of a new server? Please tell me what's wrong with that.
I gotta hear this now.
Oh another thing. About us being selfish.
All I have to say is :lol:
Without *us* the playerbase, KK wouldn't be making any money. Which means no expansion. Which means no new players. Us, the loyal players, many whom have played for more than a year. Please................Our feelings and say count too.
Originally posted by Carinth
If you have your tooth removed or cavity filled without painkillers, you will be pretty miserable. I'm saying both should be done, neither will work alone.
That wasn't what he said actually. He said "Would you take painkillers to cover the pain of a cavity, or would you get it filled? (to fix it completely)"
If you go get it filled, it removes the point of using painkillers, so no, you don't need both.
Wipe = :rolleyes:
Nevermind im done, you guys aren't reading anything I type. I'm just gonna be quoting myself over and over again.
Shadow Dancer
08-03-04, 01:04
Originally posted by Carinth
Nevermind im done, you guys aren't reading anything I type.
Alright, since you can't argue anymore than I guess we're done.
:cool:
Can you at least tell me your opinion on a new server?
That really does seem like a win/win situation.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Alright, since you can't argue anymore than I guess we're done.
:cool:
Can you at least tell me your opinion on a new server?
That really does seem like a win/win situation.
Indeed it does.
A new server would be interesting, and a good answer to both anti-wipe and pro-wipe people.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Alright, since you can't argue anymore than I guess we're done.
:cool:
Can you at least tell me your opinion on a new server?
That really does seem like a win/win situation.
Only if populations increase A LOT. Otherwise it's just even more dilution of the userbase.
Shadow Dancer
08-03-04, 01:10
Originally posted by jernau
Only if populations increase A LOT.
Which won't happen with a wipe.
:p
I think we have too many servers. Uranus and Pluto should be merged. But that would upset either pluto or uranus people. hehhe
How about jupiter and pluto?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Which won't happen with a wipe.
BING!!!!
We have a winner.
Wrt server merges - the only one that makes sense is Uranus-Saturn.
As a Saturn resident I'm not sure whether I want that or not tbh.
A new server would be great, but as said the population is already too small to support the servers we have.
This again????
Bring a new server if everyone needs a new start.
Wiping would solve NOTHING. I say it would only make things worse.
People that KNOW the tricks would still use em, and powerlevel, and then in a month from the wipe you would have a HUGE disparity between those players and the others. Even bigger than it is now cause the casual gamers have had time to develope characters at their own pace.
We get new players ALL the time. The new ones that HOPEFULLY arrive with DOY do not warrant wiping all of the efforts of the current players.
Plus KK said no wipe.
Originally posted by Strych9
People that KNOW the tricks would still use em, and powerlevel, and then in a month from the wipe you would have a HUGE disparity between those players and the others. Even bigger than it is now cause the casual gamers have had time to develope characters at their own pace.
yup, the vets who know the game would be able to level a char very quick, get the items fast, leaving the noobs behind, so you would still end up with a bunch of high level fully kitted out chars, while the noobs are struggling to get there shit togeather
I don't see the point in argueing. KK is stealth wiping anyway. I'm losing a rare weapon a week at the moment.....
Nightbrother
08-03-04, 14:37
Originally posted by SynC_187
I don't see the point in argueing. KK is stealth wiping anyway. I'm losing a rare weapon a week at the moment.....
Due to what? Care to elaborate? Stealth wiping? o_O
Originally posted by Nightbrother
Due to what? Care to elaborate? Stealth wiping? o_O
Just gone...
The latest was my Libby.
Died. Genrepped to Plaza2. Re-equipped belt (Libby in slot1).
Logged off for dinner.
Logged back on. Slot1 empty. No libby in inventory. SI still at 28% so no-one was on the account. Positive SL so I didn't drop it.
Similar thing with my Judge a week or so ago.
Originally posted by ezza
yup, the vets who know the game would be able to level a char very quick, get the items fast, leaving the noobs behind, so you would still end up with a bunch of high level fully kitted out chars, while the noobs are struggling to get there shit togeather ezza and I are in 100% complete agreement on this.
:confused:
o_O
:D
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