View Full Version : [BRAINPORT] remove synaptic imparement from lom pills
Lets look at the facts.
-It's not roleplay, because roleplay is entertaining. This isn't.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-It's not gameplay.
-It's not an interesting plot.
-It's not content.
-It's not a feature.
-It doesn't stop an explot. (XP loss is enough)
-It doesn't serve a single perpose.
-It does piss you off.
-It discourages character experimentation.
-Its fucking boring.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-Lom pills take up to 5 hours out of gameplay. FRE's take 2 minuits. I prefere FRE's.
-There are mmorpg's with better skill loss systems.
Really. Why is it there?
Who voted no and why?
I honestly don't see any valid argument FOR synaptic imparement with loms.
I have heard several arguments, none of them good ones.
You're taking a pill that makes you lose a part of your memory . . .it's going to make you hazy just like GR'in does and such . . . but I do believe the amount should be reduced cause right now it's just way too high. I"ll agree with a reduction of SI but not a total removal
Gulinborsti
04-03-04, 12:46
Who voted no and why?
That was me who voted NO, at least not with the low exp loss as it is at the moment.
It must not be possible to change, for example from a melee tank to a H-C tank within one day or switch between APU and PPU that easy.
LOMs are there to tweak your chars skills or correct some minor faults you did skilling him. Completely switching a chars setup to a complete different direction should be possible, but not without consquences.
Make each LOM take away a full level and the levels exp and you get a YES from me too.
EDIT: Maybe I should state that I use(d) LOMs a lot to try different setups and to react on changes KK patched into the game over the last 2 years.
Originally posted by amfest
You're taking a pill that makes you lose a part of your memory . . .it's going to make you hazy just like GR'in does and such . . .
You are refering to roleplay. I honestly don't think it matters. Especially when it's ruining the gameplay.
It's a bit like that EVENT where people in plaza 1 just died, for no reason. Sure it's good roleplay, but it was no fun.
Don't forget this is the future.
NO
i've explained my opinion in the "blackmail" topic. Don't make the game easier.
U think it will negate the boredom of the lomming itself, yeah that's true, but it will give more boredom for a gameplay and that is wrong for me...
You are refering to roleplay. I honestly don't think it matters. Especially when it's ruining the gameplay.
ruining the gameplay? hello? who put those points there in the first place .. guess who? . .err YOU. Sure we make minor mistakes but the people who really suffer from LoMing are the people doing massive overhauls . .switching from one tradeskill to another .. one combat to another .. yadda yadda yadda. You could always *gasp* reroll . . . then the gameplay wouldn't have any stops would it? you'd be playing away on the leveling treadmill . . . I haven't had any problems with LoMs I typically think my skills through before I place points down. And if i goof I'll play the time.
But yea I'll agree with Gulinborsti on the removal if those terms are met
Dade Murphey
04-03-04, 12:53
I voted no...because I'd actually like to see them removed from the game...but since that's not gonna happen...Keep the imparement and xp loss...otherwise, even with XP loss it'll go back to xactly how it was before with people lomming for whatever situation they need done at the time...basically...if you don't wanna waste all that time...don't use them...
Dude - stop bleating about this now. If we had no SI, then you could LoM from one setup to another in a matter of minutes. THat isn't what KK wanted and no-one likes doing it, but be greatful that you CAN change should you wish to.
No I voted stop whining - which should be the same as No! :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Xylaz
Don't make the game easier.
But loms arn't difficult, there linear.
No.
I was almost tempted to propose to remove lom pills and be done with it.
IMO lom pills are there to correct a point repartition mistake without having to call for a GM, and as such they are well suited. What I do not like with the whole idea is that some kind of characters are made possible only because of lom pills. For example, levelling a pure ppu (pure like in with no APU, ever) is hell, and a barterer is usually made by switching trades. Lom pills introduction was a temporary measure that has grown past its usefullness to become a balance issue.
Originally posted by Kalamazoo
No.
I was almost tempted to propose to remove lom pills and be done with it.
IMO lom pills are there to correct a point repartition mistake without having to call for a GM, and as such they are well suited. What I do not like with the whole idea is that some kind of characters are made possible only because of lom pills. For example, levelling a pure ppu (pure like in with no APU, ever) is hell, and a barterer is usually made by switching trades. Lom pills introduction was a temporary measure that has grown past its usefullness to become a balance issue.
LEs were only made so that newbies could level up without being ganked by capped enemies. They were intended to be removed when you reach a high enough level (hence the restriction on implanting it past /30). It's not being used for this purpose any more, but do we come down like a tonne of bricks on LE users? No, we don't, because we realise that just because something was intended for one purpose does not mean it cannot be used for something else. Now LEs are used as a PvP switch so that people who don't want to PvP can still enjoy hunting etc, which is perfectly fine. To say LoMming a character from one skill to another is bad yet using the LE at high level when PvP capable is pure hypocrisy.
the thread starters point is a good one, and i voted yes.
none of the "no" explanations have good reasons, or address the fundamental point that the SI is purely there to slow things down. the effects of lomming with or without SI are IDENTICAL - as in the same. lomming is not harder with SI, nor is it any less practical, it is merely more TIME CONSUMING.
the time consuming point is the sticker, and the pain, and yes - it should be removed or at least reduced.
to address one of the given examples, lomming from HC to MC with or without SI will have the same effect - a char that requires (if they were initially capped) a vast amount of XP regain. whether the lomming is done in a few hours or a few minutes is irrelevant, however the time taken to lom is utterly wasted.
and besides, it's a simple matter to write a script to do the lomming, why not simply acknowledge this and remove this endless timesink.
as to loms being some kind of gifthorse into whose mouth we should not be peering, neocron is not like those other games in which you cannot reskill. neocron still has no proper manual, skills still exist that do nothing at all (i.e. resist psi), all traps that new players will find themselves in, and all traps that can be rectified with loms.
with our skill system as it currently stands - loms are essential.
Benjie, this is just another "ohhhhhh i h8 LOMin so plz make it easyer for me" post and this will be closed again because its not "BrainPort" :rolleyes: "sighs"
HELL YES.
Its a waste of fuckin time.
Besides, half the people i know cheat anyway, using macro programs to LOM for them.
oh and Kalamazoo:
i was almost tempted to propose to remove lom pills and be done with it
Thats quite possibly the most retarded statement Ive seen on the forum. Like, EVER.
Go buy yourself somethin nice ;)
Like a Tonka Truck.
*looks at the poll*
Wow. Bunch of masochists on these here boards...
Dade Murphey
04-03-04, 13:36
isn't stop whining and no pretty much the same thing in this situation...and I voted no...but I wish I'd have voted stop whining...I've been in 3 or 4 threads now where Benjies whining about SI on loms...live with your mistakes or pay the price to fix them...it's nothing new...why are you complaining about this so far down the road...
edit:
I get irritable when it gets late :angel:
I have made no mistakes with my character.
The term "mistake" is the exact reason I am against Synaptic Imaprement on loms. "mistake" suggests cookie cutter, and is against experimentation.
I simply want to try new things.
Originally posted by Kalamazoo
No.
I was almost tempted to propose to remove lom pills and be done with it.
IMO lom pills are there to correct a point repartition mistake without having to call for a GM, and as such they are well suited. What I do not like with the whole idea is that some kind of characters are made possible only because of lom pills. For example, levelling a pure ppu (pure like in with no APU, ever) is hell, and a barterer is usually made by switching trades. Lom pills introduction was a temporary measure that has grown past its usefullness to become a balance issue.
What's wrong with loms? With this game chaning all the time,
weapons getting boosted, others getting nefred it's a perfect way
to tweak your character. What is soooo wrong with that?
And your point about leveling as APU then lomming to PPU is not
a valid one, because, instead of removing loms they should boost
PPU team exp gain, make barter able to level more from buying/selling
and not remove something that _every_ class benefits from.
And please tell me how it causes balance issues?
Lets say on a scale from 1 to 10 you have a very very good resist
setup, say 10... but then a new weapon is introduced and somehow
boosts get screwed up etc etc (like the current situation) i would
much rather tweak my char (as _everybody_ else) then wait 6 months
for KK to sort this out.
And since everybody can adjust/tweak skills/resist whatever why
does this cause a blanace issue?
Remove SI, double XP loss. I'm game.
Dade Murphey
04-03-04, 13:42
Originally posted by Benjie
I have made no mistakes with my character.
The term "mistake" is the exact reason I am against Synaptic Imaprement on loms. "mistake" suggests cookie cutter, and is against experimentation.
I simply want to try new things.
to whom does mistake implie cookie cutter...mistake to me implies a number of things...from not knowing that you'll never be all that hot down the road if you take both pistol and rifle...or hitting the wrong "+" when trying to spend your points...there's a lot more to "mistake" than not being cookie cutter...if you want to xperiment use Saturn for xperimentations like me :D or the test server
edit:
I'm with Skicar on that...I'd be for it then
Benjie, why are you completely LoMing your char anyways? And what class are you?
Originally posted by Dade Murphey
edit:
I'm with Skicar on that...I'd be for it then
It's only what I've been saying for the last 6 months yet you've been arguing with me. :p
Originally posted by Benjie
I simply want to try new things.
try a new game? :rolleyes:
Devils Grace
04-03-04, 13:48
Originally posted by Benjie
I have made no mistakes with my character.
The term "mistake" is the exact reason I am against Synaptic Imaprement on loms. "mistake" suggests cookie cutter, and is against experimentation.
I simply want to try new things.
buy another acount or go to a 4 slot char server
cept saturn, i dont want u there:lol:
once again i think only 5 min is to long
Dade Murphey
04-03-04, 13:48
Originally posted by Scikar
It's only what I've been saying for the last 6 months yet you've been arguing with me. :p
I've not been arguing with you...I misread that one post of yours 30 min ago...haha...It still doesn't make much sense...but I'm still really tired...hahah...tonite's the first time I've seen you say that...if they doubled the xp loss I'd be game
Originally posted by Devils Grace
buy another acount or go to a 4 slot char server
cept saturn, i dont want u there:lol:
once again i think only 5 min is to long
prob is think hes on saturn allready o_O
my only addition to this conversation is...
why do we keep comparing this mmo to others?
who cares what other mmo's do? Lom's are a part of what makes this game unique.
IMO, its o_O to compare this mmo with another.
its like comparing apples and oranges. neocron has set the standard that we will expect for future sci-fi mmo's. i can't find another sci fi MMO to compare NC to. Planetside doesnt compare and SWG isnt even the shooter/mmo hybrid neocron is.
On another point, the reason why LoM's have SI is because you are taking a drug to forget something you already knew. To add roleplay into it, you just took something that can kill you to effectively wipe something you are proficient in. In comes the sinaptic impairment, you just chemically fucked your brain and now its kicking you in the ass for doing it.
Do i agree with it? NO who the hell wants to spend days LoM'ing from hc to melee? I'm doing it.
i think this is a intended timesink. KK considers using the autolom program a exploit o_O wtf kk rofl.
autolom program, if you even get it to work, tries to use a LoM every 30 seconds. dont ask me where to get it since i have no idea. Just some info i picked up on unofficial forums.
Originally posted by L3m0n
try a new game? :rolleyes:
Now your just being argumentative.
Just because you don't like me and that you think I'm whining (which is obvious from your posts) doesn't mean that this isn't a very good point.
I am yet to see you post a reason why you are arguing against us.
I just searched your posts and I didn't find any valid arguments other than lomming has changed all of our lives. o_O
LagWarrior
04-03-04, 14:20
No and, STOP WHINING ;)
Originally posted by LagWarrior
No and, STOP WHINING ;)
again, another argument against us, and with no real reason.
I'm trying to point out that there _is_ no decent reason against synaptic imparement in lom pills.
Do you want to know the best sollution?
Loms take 4 minuits per lom due to Synapyic Imparement.
The best sollution is to transfer the 4 minuits SI to an XP loss equivelent to 4 minuits of leveling.
Leveling is gameplay=fun.
Originally posted by Benjie
I simply want to try new things.
NC isn't your personal test bed. Go seup a char on test server if u wanna do that :rolleyes:
Originally posted by GT_Rince
NC isn't your personal test bed. Go seup a char on test server if u wanna do that :rolleyes:
You are wrong matey.
The test server, as reakktor have stated countless times, is for finding bugs and balance issues. Reakktor are against people using it to try out there new character setups.
Originally posted by Benjie
You are wrong matey.
The test server, as reakktor have stated countless times, is for finding bugs and balance issues. Reakktor are against people using it to try out there new character setups.
And you think they are gonna change Loms just so you can try new things out? - lol... Good luck :D
Originally posted by GT_Rince
And you think they are gonna change Loms just so you can try new things out? - lol... Good luck :D
Yes.
I think the fact that countless people have complained about the severe degree of bordom lomming creates is going to make reakktor consider an alternative.
Check my sig.
LagWarrior
04-03-04, 14:31
Originally posted by Glok
... Bunch of masochists on these here boards... Everyone playing Neocron must have something of the masochist about him. ;)
Devils Grace
04-03-04, 14:32
Originally posted by Benjie
You are wrong matey.
The test server, as reakktor have stated countless times, is for finding bugs and balance issues. Reakktor are against people using it to try out there new character setups.
benjie u can want things changed for ur personal amusement
u want to be a setup guy just deal with it
Originally posted by Benjie
Lets look at the facts.
-It's not roleplay, because roleplay is entertaining. This isn't.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-It's not gameplay.
-It's not an interesting plot.
-It's not content.
-It's not a feature.
-It doesn't stop an explot. (XP loss is enough)
-It doesn't serve a single perpose.
-It does piss you off.
-It discourages character experimentation.
-Its fucking boring.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-Lom pills take up to 5 hours out of gameplay. FRE's take 2 minuits. I prefere FRE's.
-There are mmorpg's with better skill loss systems.
Really. Why is it there?
Just imagine, i have my psi capped monk, it's a pure ppu ok ?
Il log it today, raaaaa nobody in my clan, ok i'm turning APU for rare parts hunting 8|
What's the problem ?... i only loose XP ?... pffff i'm capped, so i do not loose levels !
It will took 2 minutes to complete change your character. And THAT IS NOT ROLEPLAY ! Roleplaying is not only here to have fun, it's here to make things "like in real life it would be"
So you do not change form searcher to builder in 2 minutes, it's normal.
Hooo i voted No :D
Originally posted by Benjie
Yes.
I think the fact that countless people have complained about the severe degree of bordom lomming creates is going to make reakktor consider an alternative.
Check my sig.
So, you think that KK should change loms so you can try new stuff out? lol... get real. :lol:
Oh, and I don't actually care what your sig says :)
Edit---
Finally, look at the numbers - add the Stop Whining and No together and they beat the Yes - go figure !
Originally posted by Ultazha
What's the problem ?... i only loose XP ?... pffff i'm capped, so i do not loose levels !Actually, you would lose 5 or more levels, depending on what your PPU was at.
Such a system was implemented last year. It was crap and thus removed to the current system.
There is no reason for SI with LoMs.
Originally posted by Gulinborsti
That was me who voted NO, at least not with the low exp loss as it is at the moment.
It must not be possible to change, for example from a melee tank to a H-C tank within one day or switch between APU and PPU that easy.
LOMs are there to tweak your chars skills or correct some minor faults you did skilling him. Completely switching a chars setup to a complete different direction should be possible, but not without consquences.
Make each LOM take away a full level and the levels exp and you get a YES from me too.
EDIT: Maybe I should state that I use(d) LOMs a lot to try different setups and to react on changes KK patched into the game over the last 2 years.
Originally posted by Devils Grace
benjie u can want things changed for ur personal amusement
It's not for _my_ personal amusement. I think there is a gameplay error here, that everybody goes through. :p
Originally posted by Benjie
It's not for _my_ personal amusement.
That's odd - it's not what you said to my question above...
Originally posted by GT_Rince
That's odd - it's not what you said to my question above...
I ment I think they will consider it.
Obviously I don't mean for me alone, that would just be stupid.
Gulinborsti
04-03-04, 14:49
Result so far:
Yes: 18
No: 18 (option 2 and 3 are exactly the same)
I can't see any arguments on the "YES" side except the usual "I DON'T LIKE/WANT IT THE WAY IT IS. CHANGE IT OR <insert any threat of your choice aganist KK and/or community>!!!"
/close and forget it :mad:
Originally posted by Gulinborsti
I can't see any arguments on the "YES" side except the usual "I DON'T LIKE/WANT IT THE WAY IT IS. CHANGE IT OR <insert any threat of your choice aganist KK and/or community>!!!"
Lomming 1 skill is easy.
Anything more than that and it becomes a problem.
Taking up to 5 and a half hours, it's a Giant time sink that really doesn't have to be there. It doesn't _do_ anything.
Deanus_willis
04-03-04, 15:21
i say half both of the negatives of Loming.
Half the SI
Half the skill loss
Compromise....
suits all :D
Benjie this is the 2nd if not the 3rd post on this matter that you have posted! Postin on the forums changes nothin, most people in KK who have a say in what they will change dont even look at these forums! if you want to change something the only way your going to do this is to email them direct!
Richard Slade
04-03-04, 15:29
(The LOM Mastah enters the Arena!)
After spending ATLEAST 20% of my TOTAL gametime LOMing (well about 60% or more actually but.. shh!)
Revamp the darned LOM's so you lose a FULL level instead.
That way there's no need for SI and you still get a big slap in the face for doing it
and I mean come on
Loss of Memory means Loss of Memory, not "Oh-I-Changed-My-Mind"
And yeah..
At Ultazha...
You never played a real RPG huh?
"Roleplaying is not only here to have fun, it's here to make things "like in real life it would be""
That's gotta be the worst definition of RP I've EVER heard..
Nid should hammerslam you just for being so WAY OFF!
Gulinborsti
04-03-04, 15:31
Originally posted by Richard Slade
(The LOM Mastah enters the Arena!)
After spending ATLEAST 20% of my TOTAL gametime LOMing (well about 60% or more actually but.. shh!)
Revamp the darned LOM's so you lose a FULL level instead.
That way there's no need for SI and you still get a big slap in the face for doing it
and I mean come on
Loss of Memory means Loss of Memory, not "Oh-I-Changed-My-Mind"
Thanks for your support :D
Originally posted by Benjie
It doesn't _do_ anything.
You keep saying this, but keep ignoring the fact that it DOES do something. It stops peeps from hopping from one skill to another in a matter of minutes. THAT is what KK wanted to avoid, and this way deals with it.
Ohters are correct - there is no arguement for this other than "It is a time sync" - not a very good arguement imho!
The Yes & No numbers are also pretty close but the fact remains, that KK won't do anything about it, because there is nothing wrong with it.
Rince, your avatar gives me the creeps. At first it was funny, but it's getting to me. :( :p 8|
Up the XP loss and remove the SI.
The SI is a pain, I would be much rather playing to gain XP for lom loss then have to sit around for ages doing nothing.
Btw, this wouldn't make people hop classes. The XP loss is already pretty high to stop it. Try loosing 1-2 levels when your pretty much capped. Deters you easily.
Nope, as much as I dislike lomming and the time it takes the removal of lom pills would allow every muppet on the server to respec to whatever the latest cookie cutter, exploiting setup becomes the norm after a patch breaks something.
Devils Grace
04-03-04, 16:09
Originally posted by Richard Slade
(The LOM Mastah enters the Arena!)
After spending ATLEAST 20% of my TOTAL gametime LOMing (well about 60% or more actually but.. shh!)
Revamp the darned LOM's so you lose a FULL level instead.
That way there's no need for SI and you still get a big slap in the face for doing it
and I mean come on
Loss of Memory means Loss of Memory, not "Oh-I-Changed-My-Mind"
And yeah..
At Ultazha...
You never played a real RPG huh?
"Roleplaying is not only here to have fun, it's here to make things "like in real life it would be""
That's gotta be the worst definition of RP I've EVER heard..
Nid should hammerslam you just for being so WAY OFF!
i tought u quited playing ?:confused:
I agree with Benjie, and I actually hope he continues to make these threads until it happens.
KK have made, and will make a lot of mistakes with balancing. That's to be expected with any MMO. What is not to be expected however, is that we are then forced into another timesink to change our setups because of their mistakes.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
You keep saying this, but keep ignoring the fact that it DOES do something. It stops peeps from hopping from one skill to another in a matter of minutes.
*slaps GT_Rince for being a duur duur*
Of course players will be able to jump from A to B in minuits with this suggestion.
Is skill hopping bad? Yes!
Why is it bad? Because it allows get rich quick exploits.
What _is_ skill hopping? It's continuesly hopping from Researcher, to constructor, to barter, etcetera.
Would removing Synaptic Imparement make that easy? No! If you did that you would loose massive levels.
Is it wrorong for someone to move from hacking to poking in a matter of minuits? No! Just as long as there not skill hopping, changiung from one skill set to another is fine.
Anyway I am more focused on a player trying to delete a larger set of skills. IE Revamp his constritution, which can take several hours.
Originally posted by Lethys
I agree with Benjie, and I actually hope he continues to make these threads until it happens. \
:angel:
Originally posted by Benjie
Lets look at the facts.
-It's not roleplay, because roleplay is entertaining. This isn't.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-It's not gameplay.
-It's not an interesting plot.
-It's not content.
-It's not a feature.
-It doesn't stop an explot. (XP loss is enough)
-It doesn't serve a single perpose.
-It does piss you off.
-It discourages character experimentation.
-Its fucking boring.
-There is absolutely no reason for it to be there.
-Lom pills take up to 5 hours out of gameplay. FRE's take 2 minuits. I prefere FRE's.
-There are mmorpg's with better skill loss systems.
Really. Why is it there? Rince touched on this...
Do you ACTUALLY not realize why its there?
LOMs used to just let you change skills. The big "penalty" was the cost alone.
So someone wanted a gun built. They LOMd int to research, did the research, LOMd to construction, built the gun, LOMd back to weapon lore to use it.
People would fight fire mobs... then decide to go caving and LOM their con all into poison, and then LOM it back when done.
TOTALLY destroyed the need to make ANY choice. No need for any tradeskillers really unless you were a tank or you were poor.
XP loss alone is A deterrent to doing that- but its the SI that really stops the skill switching from having a big impact in the game. You can still switch roles entirely, but it takes a lot of time.
definetly, tho to make everyone happy if SI was lost, increase XP loss a little bit more. I can handle XP loss just that the fact is, LOM Pills with SI is ridiculous. No one has fun lomming, it takes hours and hours to lom a fully capped char (which you'll have to recap).
Drop the SI, boost the xp loss if need be. Just take away SI, it's annoying.
@ Styche 9. In this thread there is a sollution to that.
Think about how much experience you get in 5 minuits leveling.
That exact amount of XP loss could be added onto the XP factor to replace Sinaptic Imparement.
That way the hours you spend lomming are spent in the battlefeilds, in the caves, having fun. Not sitting on a bench.
Effectivly it's the same thing. Only more fun. This is a game after all.
Originally posted by Benjie
@ Styche 9. In this thread there is a sollution to that.
Think about how much experience you get in 5 minuits leveling.
That exact amount of XP loss could be added onto the XP factor to replace Sinaptic Imparement.
That way the hours you spend lomming are spent in the battlefeilds, in the caves, having fun. Not sitting on a bench.
Effectivly it's the same thing. Only more fun. This is a game after all. Thats fine, but I still think there is value in LOMs taking you OUT of action fo a bit.
You can LOM around 100 skill points out on a skill (say like RC of 100) and lose about 2-3 total levels of your main skill if its around 87 or so.
So its not like the exp hit is so big that if you choose to immediately switch skills that you will be removed from using them right away.
I would rather have the LOMs able to be stacked and then you can switch chars or something- i.e. the LOMming char be taken out of commission but you the human not obligated to sit there and watch it the whole time.
I personally think the runner being out of commision is important. I would rather have to just not play a char for a period and be able to switch runner or server and keep playing than to have to re-earn the experience.
Just my opinion.
Originally posted by Benjie
[BThink about how much experience you get in 5 minuits leveling.
That exact amount of XP loss could be added onto the XP factor to replace Sinaptic Imparement.
[/B]
How do you determine how much experience you get in 5 minutes of leveling?
5 minutes of caving is different than
5 minutes of DoY Bots which is different than
5 minutes of MC5 which is different than
5 minutes of Clops which pit is different than
5 minutes of aggie which cellars is different than
5 minutes of small sewer rats.
Is the exp loss now going to be based on where you usually like to hunt so you can guage the appropriate amount of exp to subtract? Or do you base it on the highest level of hunting and screw over the lowbies that want to remove the skill points they assigned to resist PSI when creating the char because they didn't know any better?
Originally posted by Myrlin
How do you determine how much experience you get in 5 minutes of leveling?
5 minutes of caving is different than
5 minutes of DoY Bots which is different than
5 minutes of MC5 which is different than
5 minutes of Clops which pit is different than
5 minutes of aggie which cellars is different than
5 minutes of small sewer rats.
Is the exp loss now going to be based on where you usually like to hunt so you can guage the appropriate amount of exp to subtract? Or do you base it on the highest level of hunting and screw over the lowbies that want to remove the skill points they assigned to resist PSI when creating the char because they didn't know any better? Good point. Or what about my Spy, with all Int in Construct, and all Dex in TC and Agility (a stealthing constructor basically). What 5 minutes of levelling for me- building holy heals??? ;)
All they need to d o is half the Si NOTHING else, the rest of it is perfect.
Hell yes if your doing a large changed your still gonna lose a good shunk of levels, hell you could boost exp lose if you removed SI.
Plus LoMs arn't there for a small tweak or cause you made a mistake with a misclick. There, here cause of drastic changes.
Heavy Dur boots get added = I need to do a large revamp on my tanks Con.
You get yourself a nice MC-5 now you got to much MST or TC and you may need to change a nice chunk of skill around.
You may have a perfect setup for something and your doing real good with it, people scream nerf next patch comes along and all of a sudden your total shit and useless and may need to do a drastic change.
Anyone who voted NO is dum as shit cause almost everyone LoMs and everyone always complains about how long it takes and how stupid it is to have such a time sync.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Anyone who voted NO is dum as shit cause almost everyone LoMs and everyone always complains about how long it takes and how stupid it is to have such a time sync.
I'm offended that you think I'm dumb as shit. I've eaten hundreds of LOMS as I've tweaked my setup and I haven't complained about it once. Yes it takes a long time. Yes its boring. Would I rather get rid of it and make it go fast? No. Why not? Because I remember how it was when uber researchers would eat a stack of LOMs and because uber constructors in the same night.
KK wants it to be a time sync so you have to be committed to your character. The only reason to argue that increasing the XP lose and removing the SI would be an improvement is because you know how much faster you can gain XP.
Richard Slade
05-03-04, 02:36
Originally posted by Devils Grace
i tought u quited playing ?:confused:
I did
But I'm still the heftiest LOMer in the game
No matter what
noone will EVER waste THAT much time on loming
So I can still give my opinion ;)
Originally posted by Myrlin
I'm offended that you think I'm dumb as shit. I've eaten hundreds of LOMS as I've tweaked my setup and I haven't complained about it once. Yes it takes a long time. Yes its boring. Would I rather get rid of it and make it go fast? No. Why not? Because I remember how it was when uber researchers would eat a stack of LOMs and because uber constructors in the same night.
God who cares? Not a big deal most people have top lvl R&D crews. For those who dont I rember in the early days those who did it were of great service to me and helped me out alot.
I miss the creativity loms allowed when they were first introduced. :(
For me, it was the best thing about the game when I was a noobie.
Originally posted by Scikar
LEs were only made so that newbies could level up without being ganked by capped enemies. They were intended to be removed when you reach a high enough level (hence the restriction on implanting it past /30). It's not being used for this purpose any more, but do we come down like a tonne of bricks on LE users? No, we don't, because we realise that just because something was intended for one purpose does not mean it cannot be used for something else. Now LEs are used as a PvP switch so that people who don't want to PvP can still enjoy hunting etc, which is perfectly fine. To say LoMming a character from one skill to another is bad yet using the LE at high level when PvP capable is pure hypocrisy.
That's right. LE chips should go too.
Originally posted by L0KI
HELL YES.
Its a waste of fuckin time.
Besides, half the people i know cheat anyway, using macro programs to LOM for them.
oh and Kalamazoo:
Thats quite possibly the most retarded statement Ive seen on the forum. Like, EVER.
Go buy yourself somethin nice ;)
Like a Tonka Truck.
Do you know that calling other people statements "retarded" won't make yours any more substantial, don't you ?
Now I suggest that you leave grown-ups alone and that you and your hemorroids go play with Maven in the cellar.
Originally posted by retr0n
What's wrong with loms? With this game chaning all the time,
weapons getting boosted, others getting nefred it's a perfect way
to tweak your character. What is soooo wrong with that?
And your point about leveling as APU then lomming to PPU is not
a valid one, because, instead of removing loms they should boost
PPU team exp gain, make barter able to level more from buying/selling
and not remove something that _every_ class benefits from.
And please tell me how it causes balance issues?
Lets say on a scale from 1 to 10 you have a very very good resist
setup, say 10... but then a new weapon is introduced and somehow
boosts get screwed up etc etc (like the current situation) i would
much rather tweak my char (as _everybody_ else) then wait 6 months
for KK to sort this out.
And since everybody can adjust/tweak skills/resist whatever why
does this cause a blanace issue?
Neocron is a MMORPG, a role playing game. A role has to have some coherence in it. When you are unable to tell what some characters skills are, all your possible interractions with this character are screwed, be it while dealing with or confronting him. You no longer play a character, you are playing a character class with no persisting individuality whatsoever, just a never ending mutability, a conceptual blob.
And then comes the balance issue : with easy lomming comes tradeskills aggregation, which means that one Spy can potentially be a Jack of all trades, really and perfectly. So on one side you have crafters and on the others killers. This duality is a big throwback from what Neocron could have been without lom pills. So, basically, all your game balance is made irrelevant.
Originally posted by Richard Slade
(The LOM Mastah enters the Arena!)
After spending ATLEAST 20% of my TOTAL gametime LOMing (well about 60% or more actually but.. shh!)
Revamp the darned LOM's so you lose a FULL level instead.
That way there's no need for SI and you still get a big slap in the face for doing it
and I mean come on
Loss of Memory means Loss of Memory, not "Oh-I-Changed-My-Mind"
Nice idea.
for what it's worth, I've heard a lot of complaining about how impossible it is to level a barter or a PPU. I levelled a barter pure PPU naturally from the get-go, and didn't have any problems...sure it was a little slower than levelling, say, a PE or an APU, but it still went ok for the most part. LOMing is absolutely NOT essential for the purposes of levelling these types of characters.
What is the point in posting polls that are worded with a bias slant? It's bloody annoying and you won't receive accurate results.
BTW. I voted 'No'.
So ner :P
yea remove the SI from loms... the xp loss is enough to keep people from changing their setups everyday :)
.cy
Originally posted by yibble
What is the point in posting polls that are worded with a bias slant? It's bloody annoying and you won't receive accurate results.
It's not biast at all. Yes, XP loss is enough is hardly a biast option.
The Stop whining option was ment to be an abstain, but I should have thought it through more. Even if Whine+no=no, yes would still be higher.
58 people say yes
26+16=42 people say no
It's pretty evenly devided.
Synatpic Imparement from loms can take up to 6 hours to do. Thats where the problem is.
Psyco Groupie
06-03-04, 11:43
If anyone who cant play alot voted no i'd love to see their reasons .. if nto stop being so selfish, sure power gamers might switch occupation alot, but its not like they dont anyway ... give people with less time more fun loms
I think the poll says it all to be honest. I accept some of the arguments that LoMs should be removed, I'm not really in agreement with anything anyone's said about a time sink on them since I think XP loss covers that. but my own opinion is that SI should be removed, and it seems the majority of the community is in agreement on this, which is good enough for me.
I lomed about 2 days ago, lost 3 hrs of real life time, got bored, flamed ppl and went from 166 mill con to 147 mill......remove half the si, not all of it, i think thats a stupid idea....i could have my apu, APU one day and a ppu the next, adjust to op wars.....if we need a ppu, hey fuck it, ill just make my apu one for a bit....dumb idea, make them give about 15% si
Originally posted by Scikar
Remove SI, double XP loss. I'm game.
That works, or just leave them as is.
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