View Full Version : Adjust PA requirements.
read BEFORE! you vote.
ok, first of all this is not a cry for a nerf or something its just an idea how to adjust the PA's for all classes - mainly PA 3 and 4.
ok atm only the PEs can wear there PA4. imo thats not fair. and now dont give me that bull like "But PEs have to gimp themself to use PA4" - yea right monks, spies and tanks arent gimps when they wanna wear PA4 :rolleyes:
why is it so? simple. PA4 for is for every other class 35 lvls above cap of there mainskill, only for PEs its not - its only 25 lvls.
ok now how to fix this problem:
Spies, PEs and Tanks all have a backbone which gives them +5 to mainskill whereas monks dont have such a backbone which leaves them with 5 less lvls in there mainskill. a simple solution would be to lower the requirement of all PAs for monks by 5 lvls.
ok another problem regarding PA4 is like i said above PEs only need +25 from imps/drugs to wear it whereas the other classes need +35 from imps/drugs.
ok each class can only get a certain ammount of lvls from imps:
monk: DS + core + exp psi 3 + psi mem 3 = +21 from imps
tank: Herc + marine + zerk3 + move on + harden 3 = +24 from imps
PEs: SA + SF + Exp Bal 3 + Moto 3 + Exp Reflex 4 = +24 from imps
Spies: same as PEs = +24 from imps.
the new PA4 requirements would be for Spy and Tank 130, for Monk 125 (cuz a monk doesnt have a backbone) and for PEs 110.
you'd still need drugs to put PA4 on but at least it would be usuable! callash once said somewhere that PA3 is for runners with best implants and PA4 is for runners with best implants and drug using.
ok now to PA3. PE PA3 is only 10 lvls above a PEs cap. either raise its requirement to 15 lvl above cap or lower the requirements of the other classes PAs to 10 lvls above cap.
suggestion for new PA requirements:
Monk: PA3 - 110 (cuz monks dont have a backbone); PA4 - 125.
Tank: PA3 - 115; PA4 - 130
Spies: PA3 - 115; PA4 130
PEs: PA3 - 95; PA4 - 105
ok now to the poll... Do you like the new requirements? Yes or no - please vote. And please post your opinion about it.
Thanks. Discuss.
1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00%
Agree with u there.
I disagree. I like that Neocron is unfair and shitted up. It's Supposed to be like that! It's post apocaliptic! Duuuuuuh!
btw voted yes. :p
voted yes, very well thought out.
Originally posted by Elric
voted yes, very well thought out.
i have a lot of time in school :p
its also not hard to implent; just one patch. also this wouldnt screw up the supposed ways of how the PAs are set up.
I agree that PA4 should be 5 lvl's lower but not any of the other pa's
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 14:41
Remove power armour from PE's and reduce the 4th PA for all classes to 125(insert skill here)
Then we are on track again.
Look this has been discused so often now...
You ARENT meant to be able to wear PA 4 without constant druggin, its just that simple, thats why they wont change it, it may change with DOY but for sure not earlier (sry cant find the post to quote the GM statement sry).
And btw why you want to use PA 4? you can make perfect characters in every class with the PAs you can use, its more like you WANT cause its ingame?:)
why make an item and put it into game when you even cant use it, not even with all drugs?
the reason i wanna wear PA4 is is because it looks like. you think i'd fight with it? hell i'd be a gimp :p
Originally posted by SirRah
why make an item and put it into game when you even cant use it, not even with all drugs?
the reason i wanna wear PA4 is is because it looks like. you think i'd fight with it? hell i'd be a gimp :p
Hm ok then this Poll is useless anyway:)
Psyco Groupie
03-03-04, 14:50
Not bad for a german n00b :)
RAH FOR PRESIDENT
Originally posted by Bruce
[...]You ARENT meant to be able to wear PA 4 without constant druggin, its just that simple, thats why they wont change it, it may change with DOY but for sure not earlier (sry cant find the post to quote the GM statement sry).[...]
i dont see the problem why runners shouldnt be able to wear PA4 constant? PEs do it already so why not the other classes?
Look i dont care if everyone could wear PA4, i really dont, its just they dont want it that way thats all i say:)
Well thought out, still have my doubts about decreasing by 5 reqs in PA3 for monks, but I completely agree with PA4 changes.
The last PA should be used by constant drugging yes, but it should also improve the char using it greatly, not gimp him. If the reqs are going to stay the same then the bonuses for PA4 should be greatly improved.
And still the reqs should be re-worked as not all classes can wear it. Yea I'm all for this idea.
Cruzbroker
03-03-04, 16:40
I don't think PA3 should be changed, but the PA4 is a must.
like said, monk 125, spy 130, tank 130, pe 105..
Tanks are kind of hard with constant drugging, they ALWAYS get a drugflash.. and mostly every other with the lowest +3 drugs..
I've also heard that "BEST implants with drugs." Berserk 3, Motoric 3 (or something) and Memory chip 3 just doesn't go with that *BEST implant*...
Spies can easily keep Level 4 armor on without drugs. SA/SRD/SF/SRI (or any other +5 DEX/INT CPU combos) = +22 DEX, DEX 3 = +5. That's 127 DEX, then add 8 from the armor = 135 DEX.
Spies are the only class besides PEs that can wear Level 4 armor with minimal effort. Hell, they can do it WITHOUT MC5 CPUs long as they don't mind staying doped up (or not using weapons - gloves can add +5 DEX, but goodbye weapons proficiency) :-)
The problem isn't the armor, the problem is the utter lack of nice implants for Tanks and Monks. They need some nice combat-stat-boosting backbones and eyes, and a few other +5 STR or +5 PSI CPUs wouldn't hurt.
Well I have to admit that monks do have a harder time of it trying to get to 135 PSI without access to a backbone, so reducing the reqs for monk PA sounds reasonable (but a better solution would be to give them a backbone). However, when it comes to wearing PA 4 as a PE, you are forgetting something – The stat bonuses of the PE PA are not in line with the PA of the other three classes and I believe that the reqs are lower by way of compensation. If they were in line, a PE could use a FL undrugged :D
Psyco Groupie
03-03-04, 16:52
Originally posted by IceStorm
Spies can easily keep Level 4 armor on without drugs. SA/SRD/SF/SRI (or any other +5 DEX/INT CPU combos) = +22 DEX, DEX 3 = +5. That's 127 DEX, then add 8 from the armor = 135 DEX.
Spies are the only class besides PEs that can wear Level 4 armor with minimal effort. Hell, they can do it WITHOUT MC5 CPUs long as they don't mind staying doped up (or not using weapons - gloves can add +5 DEX, but goodbye weapons proficiency) :-)
The problem isn't the armor, the problem is the utter lack of nice implants for Tanks and Monks. They need some nice combat-stat-boosting backbones and eyes, and a few other +5 STR or +5 PSI CPUs wouldn't hurt.
22 dex from 4 head implants = 2 mc5 chips ....
*lol* Yup - infact, a spy could get to 138 Dex easily enough (and without drugs) but thats besides the point :)
I heartily endorse this product and/or service!
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
22 dex from 4 head implants = 2 mc5 chips ....
wow... thanks for pointing out the obvious!
someone should give you a medal, captain obvious
in any case, i, as an APU, also believe that monks should at least be ABLE to wear a pa4.. because as of now, we aint able to do so, are we? :>
Psyco Groupie
03-03-04, 17:12
I was correcting the guy I quoted, try reading the thread ... :rolleyes:
Correcting what, or did you forget that SPECIAL RIGGER'S DREAM (SRD) and SYNAPTIC ACCELERATOR (SA) both give +6 DEX. Then it's just a matter of adding two more +5 DEX CPUs, of which there are plenty. I merely listed the two that have no negatives and make sense for combat - SF and SRI.
Yes, +22 DEX from CPUs. I told you, Spies can EASILY wear PA4 and don't need drugs to keep it on.
And don't tell me it's hard to get MC5 CPUs. If you're in a clan and work at it, you can get them in short order. They're a whole lot easier to get than Crescent Tabs...
I think its fair and I'm also glad you saw the problem but didnt decide the only way to fix it was to up the reqs on PE PA.
I do believe PA4 should need the runner to be maxed + have all the best imps and need to be activated either thru the use of drugs or a glove (like PEs and Spies).
PA4 should be a reward for dedication to your runner.
just been talking with a mate about that on MSN:
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: so nerf pes
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: and boost monks
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: O.o
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: doesn't make sense to me
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: it would make sense if PE PA had REAL Bonuses
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: but PE PA does't
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: compare PE PA bonuses to Other classes
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: and your theory falls apart
SirRah: heh.......
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: /looks at everything
SirRah: it wouldnt nerf PEs
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: it would.
SirRah: so how?
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: it would most definately nerf my pe
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: i tell you that much
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: my PE = DEX 93 with PE PA 3 on.
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: because PE PA has less of a bonus than other (APU/PPU/HC/MC/SpyRC/PC) PAs
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: I can't justify DEX 95 for PE PA 3 without SA, which the other classes can
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: because they can drug it on, and it stays on
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: couldn't do that with PE PA 3 after your change
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: so you shaft PEs
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: and boost monks
SirRah: i still dont see why PE PA should only be 10 lvls above cap
SirRah: while the PAs for other classes are 15
SirRah: same with PA4
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: if that is the case
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: and your changes are implemented
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: the PE bonuses should be changed as well
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: end of discussion
SirRah: well yea
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: Then go and post it
SirRah: if it is needed then yes
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: because your poll is incomplete and therefore incorrect otherwise :P
SirRah: lol
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: I hate it when people who talk about balance don't look at every single factor
SirRah: im not talking about balance
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: even when they're my friends i'll be harsh to them if they don't examine things properly :P
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: it is about balance
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: though
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: all things in terms of item stats have something to do with balance
SirRah: btw
SirRah: PA3 is supposed to be usuable with best imps
SirRah: sa is one of the best imps..
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: drugs + best imps
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: I'd still have to drug
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: even with SA
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: based on my current setup
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: which is the best PE setup "overall"
SirRah: hmm
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: as long as PPU/APU PA 3 is druggable on
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: like kenshin always did
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: it's unbalanced
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: because of the bonuses
SirRah: what bonuses do you suggest then?
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: if your changes were to come in?
SirRah: yea
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: same bonuses as the rest of the PAs
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: your change is to make the restrictions (requirements) on PA Uniform
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: if that is to be the case, so too then should be the bonuses, (and the negatives)
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: so both should be upped on PE PA to reflect PSI/Tank/Spy PA...
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: make sense?
SirRah: what would the negatives be on a PE PA then?
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: they should be upped, in the same proportions as the positives are
SirRah: i know..........
SirRah: but should the current negatives stay?
SirRah: - PSI and - mst
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: yeap
SirRah: ok
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: not sure if that would mean wearing PE PA 4 would mean no shelter or not
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: can't remember
SirRah: well if the armour stats would change it wouldnt nerf them too much or at all
SirRah: more dmg -> less defence
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: precisely
SirRah: so PA3 would give +16 R-C/P-C then right?
SirRah: my APU pa3 gives me +16 apu.....
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: yea
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: but
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: i was also talking about the dex and psi stuff :P
SirRah: +6 dex and -6 psi
SirRah: :P
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: mhhmm
SirRah: atm its only +4 dex
SirRah: so what you say?
Uzumaki Naruto - Time for some Rikku Brand White Magic Goodness!: sounds fine with the bonus/malus changes
SirRah: ok
so additionally you'd have to adjust the bonuses on the PE PA's as well otherwise it would be a kind of nerf for them.
NS_CHROME54
03-03-04, 17:41
meh. i like being able to wear my private eye PA4. besides, it doesn't give as much bonuses and resists as the other PA's
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Remove power armour from PE's and reduce the 4th PA for all classes to 125(insert skill here)
Then we are on track again.
You are funny.
-.-
Agreed - If blanket requirements were going to be enforced (ie all PA4 at 135 req) then you'd need to increase the PE PA bonuses. However, that would possibly gimp a PE even more than the maluses hamper the other classes - At the moment, wearing PA penalises either your second (Spies) or third highest (Tanks and Monks) stat, but for PE's PSI is their lowest stat, meaning the overall effect of the malus will be much more noticable.
But then, as someone once said on these forums, PE PA 4 isn't really for fighters, it's for people to show off in Plaza 1 :D
NS_CHROME54
03-03-04, 17:46
Originally posted by Siygess
But then, as someone once said on these forums, PE PA 4 isn't really for fighters, it's for people to show off in Plaza 1 :D
eh no. PA4 is for capped private eyes who want to use healing light and silent hunter without having to drug. 2 worthy reasons i might say.
Well as one of those non-drugging, Silent Hunter-using PE's I'd have to agree with you, but we're in the minority ;)
Uh why should PE PA have as good bonuses as other PA's? it has the lowest req's of them all.
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 17:58
You are funny.
You think im joking?
Pe's feel 100% that they cannot cope without the highest of TL guns,
We managed before, without PA + ability to have high end weaponry.
Sorry but PE's should never have gotten PA, that is where alot of the problems have come from.
They choose not to have PA for being that middle class.
They should only have access to say libbys/paineaser,ROG, and then the higher TL rares while drugging.
Sorry but PA for PE's have fucked this game up big time.
compared to other classes its reqs are lower... but when you take it for PEs only it has the same high reqs. 15 lvls above cap for PA3 and 25 lvls above cap for PA4. therefor it should get the same bonuses compared to the other PAs.
Originally posted by SirRah
compared to other classes its reqs are lower... but when you take it for PEs only it has the same high reqs. 15 lvls above cap for PA3 and 25 lvls above cap for PA4. therefor it should get the same bonuses compared to the other PAs.
But using that logic, then PE weapons should be lower TL but same damage as higher TL weapons for other classes.
It doesnt cut, jack of all trades and all that..
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 18:07
PE's should never have gotten PA, that way they are forced to the lower TL rares only.
And if they want the higher lvl ones, they have to drug.
I could be wrong, Celt, but I think there's a bit of a mis-understanding here. SirRah is just proposing (among other things) that the PE PA's reqs are increased to match the other PA's.. and only then would the bonuses for the PE PA need to be increased.
Of course, I'm all for leaving things as the are :D
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 18:11
Of course, I'm all for leaving things as the are
What because its piss for a PE to acces PA 4 + every fucking rare in the game, sorry but that is how the class SHOULDNT be :mad:
Originally posted by Siygess
I could be wrong, Celt, but I think there's a bit of a mis-understanding here. SirRah is just proposing (among other things) that the PE PA's reqs are increased to match the other PA's.. and only then would the bonuses for the PE PA need to be increased.
Of course, I'm all for leaving things as the are :D
I was replying to his chat with QD(namuro whatever).
Easy there Clown. You've got your opinion on what a PE should be and I've got mine. I can see this subject is bothering you, so lets leave it at that.
@Celt: Okay, my bad :D
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 18:22
Easy there Clown. You've got your opinion on what a PE should be and I've got mine. I can see this subject is bothering you, so lets leave it at that.
I have a PE, his name is Ikari, he used to be my main, who used ROLH, and a slasher, is that how this class is supposed to be?
To the point where my resists were equal to a tank, I ran quicker than a tank, used the highest TL pistol, and got like 160% dmg on it.
Could run cast heal, and almost run cast shelter + stealth + dmg boost is that your idea of what a private eye should be like?
And as I quote the game manual (admitadly out of date)
"Equality in all skill levels, but limited in their development"
Do you see a PE as this?
Thought not, as really, they are 100% specialised and have access to everything...Sure this class is balanced... :rolleyes: 8|
Dribble Joy
03-03-04, 18:24
Remove Mainstat bonus/malus from PEPA.
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 18:26
Remove Mainstat bonus/malus from PEPA.
Someone with sense and intelligance..a rarity amoungst these boards o_O
Dribble Joy
03-03-04, 18:40
Well...
That was an old idea I had back when the first RoLH/slsher PEs came out saying they were overpowered. (Eg. Rade.)
However, as pointed out by a friend, why nerf PEs when you can boost spies?
Make Slasher tl 116 or higher, and add some 120+ weapons.
Weapons that PEs simply CANNOT use.
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 18:45
Make Slasher tl 116 or higher, and add some 120+ weapons.
Or just remove PEPA, which is far easier :)
I don't see any problem with Tank and Spy PA - leave them as they are.
Monk PA would be fine if they had PSI boosting eye implants (eyes make more sense than spines to me for psi).
PEs I'm not sure about as I play them least of all classes but DJs suggestion about main-skills makes sense at first glance.
ie - Leave stats, add monkey eyes.
Originally posted by IceStorm
Spies can easily keep Level 4 armor on without drugs. SA/SRD/SF/SRI (or any other +5 DEX/INT CPU combos) = +22 DEX, DEX 3 = +5. That's 127 DEX, then add 8 from the armor = 135 DEX.
Spies are the only class besides PEs that can wear Level 4 armor with minimal effort. Hell, they can do it WITHOUT MC5 CPUs long as they don't mind staying doped up (or not using weapons - gloves can add +5 DEX, but goodbye weapons proficiency) :-)
The problem isn't the armor, the problem is the utter lack of nice implants for Tanks and Monks. They need some nice combat-stat-boosting backbones and eyes, and a few other +5 STR or +5 PSI CPUs wouldn't hurt.
Imping your spy like that for PA4 completely defies the point. A character using PA4 should be hitting the extreme pick of his class' abilities. Instead PA4 brings gimpage. A Tank for example, using PPR, Moveon, Marine, Hercules and HBB3, plus all 3 store bought STR drugs hits only 131 STR. To use the PA4 requires that he remove the PPR - a massive resist penalty, in return for what? A minor increase in RoF on CS and a ridiculous ATH penalty which totally stops him in his tracks? The only alternative is to get some Kri'Nakh Nightshade to put the armor on, and then perpetually pop X-Strong and Beast to maintain it.
PA4 is a waste in its current form, in nearly every case using PA4 results in lower defence, plus lower PPU/APU for a monk, so what's the point? They don't just need the reqs changing, they need a serious rethink overall.
PA4 is for posing not fighting.
Clownst0pper
03-03-04, 19:04
PA4 is for posing not fighting
Nova[S] on saturn uses PA 4, he is rifles me thinks.. :confused:
Psyco Groupie
03-03-04, 19:11
Im gonna use PA4 in nf for giggles since i got some nightshade recently
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Nova[S] on saturn uses PA 4, he is rifles me thinks.. :confused:
Really? I guess that's cool in a suicidal kinda way.
Imping your spy like that for PA4 completely defies the point. A character using PA4 should be hitting the extreme pick of his class' abilities. Instead PA4 brings gimpage.
Imping for PA4 brings mainstat boosts that help frequency and handling. If you use PA4 as KK intended, as something one has to drug for, then one can go back to a +23 DEX setup which is a bit more forgiving.
My point was that Spies have a wealth of readily available implant, glove, and drug options that allow them to put on and keep on PA4, whereas the Tank and Psi Monk do not. I think it would be much cooler to add imps for Tank/Psi Monk variety than it would be just to wuss out and drop the reqs on the Tank/Psi Monk PA4.
Originally posted by jernau
PA4 is for posing not fighting.
Why? I don't see why PvP and RP have to keep being separated in this way.
Originally posted by Scikar
Why? I don't see why PvP and RP have to keep being separated in this way.
I don't know where the idea originally came from but tbh I don't mind it or see a problem. In fact I kinda like that there is something you can do for show at that level. It's a way to say - I'm so good I'm going to fight at a disadvantage just so I can look cool when I kick your ass.
Besides which if PA4 suddenly became the norm everything else would just need to be rebalanced to fit a new baseline and I'd rather they finished balancing to the current level before doing that.
Monks still need another PSI imp set (eye or spine) though.
Originally posted by jernau
I don't know where the idea originally came from but tbh I don't mind it or see a problem. In fact I kinda like that there is something you can do for show at that level. It's a way to say - I'm so good I'm going to fight at a disadvantage just so I can look cool when I kick your ass.
Besides which if PA4 suddenly became the norm everything else would just need to be rebalanced to fit a new baseline and I'd rather they finished balancing to the current level before doing that.
Monks still need another PSI imp set (eye or spine) though.
I think it just drives a deeper wedge between the pure PvP community and the pure RP community. We should be bringing those together. The faction system is an attempt to do this - you are penalised for killing friendlies, so that even if you don't directly RP, you are still RPing in a sense by killing your enemies and helping your allies, at least to a limited degree. Separating the two just leads to more arguing, more RPers complaining about asshole PKers, more PKers complaining about whiny carebear RPers.
Currently things are unbalanced anyway, so I don't see a problem. PPUs are still terribly unbalanced, they're just becoming more and more irritating to play, HL is bugged, FA is underpowered, high tech weapons are too easy for PEs to use, weapons like CS and Dev are dealing more damage than KK intended (as much as I like the boost), FL still has terrible aiming, PEs still stealth everywhere. I don't see much of a balance here, and I think throwing PA4 wouldn't upset this. I don't see how it would unbalance things either - just look at the 'ideal' setup, change the imps etc to use PA4 with drugs, and then modify the PA4 so that the difference is you gain a slightly higher bonus to your mainskill and weapon usage, at the cost of an equal amount of defence and the impairment of constantly using drugs.
I can see where you are coming from but my points still stand. I dont' see how this "drives a deeper wedge between the pure PvP community and the pure RP community" at all.
Personally I like the idea of items that are ultra-hard to equip. When everyone can use everything easily there's no incentive to get the best kit and stats.
Originally posted by jernau
I can see where you are coming from but my points still stand. I dont' see how this "drives a deeper wedge between the pure PvP community and the pure RP community" at all.
Personally I like the idea of items that are ultra-hard to equip. When everyone can use everything easily there's no incentive to get the best kit and stats.
I'm not saying make it easier, not at all. Just that if I have to sacrifice say 10 R-C through changing imps to switch from PA3 to PA4, then the PA4 should give me 12 R-C, bearing in mind I'm now taking drugs to use the armor.
Okay okay
a Spy with Synaptic Accelerator, Special Forces, Riggers Dream, motoric 3 and Exp reflex booster 4 or dex booster 3 can get
27 dex added
so 127 dex total, PA 4 should equal 127 dex
since PA 4 adds 8 dex i believe, then do this
make a weapon or weapons that need 135 dex to use, Private Eyes cant use them
a Tank with marine, moveon, beserk 3, beserk 2, str booster 3 or hardened backbone 3 can get.
21 str
so 121 str total, PA 4 should equal 121 str
make a weapon or weapons that need 129 str to use, private eyes cant use them
a monk with DS, PSI-Core, Exp PSI Controller 3, PSI memory 3 can get
21 PSI
so 121 psi total, PA 4 should equal 121 psi
make a weapon or weapons that need 129 psi to use, private eyes and hybrids cant use them
a private eye with SA, SF, Riggers Dream, motoric 3, Dex booster 3 or exp reflex booster 4 can get
27 dex added
so 107 dex total, PA 4 should equal 107 dex
that will give private eyes only 113 dex to work with.
since tanks, monks, spies can get much higher dex, str and psi, then make wepaons that the private eye simply wont have access to.
and since every class can now use their PA 4 without drugs, someone who is completly capped out and has all the best implants/ ones that give the most, will have access to incredibly powerful weapons (in comparison to a hybrid monk and private eye)
hence giving private eyes no real specialization. a private eye should be able to use a rare weapon from every pool expect PSI of course.
like only liberator, wyatt earp, judge
pain easer, thunderstorm, redeemer
paw of tiger, vein rigger, blade of ceres, etc...
devourer, judgement day launcher, storm laser cannon, etc... (althoug the second two really arent rares, but hey, you know what i mean)
etc......
like this idea?
No, because you are changing 3 classes to suit 1.
You are looking at it the wrong way.
If it doesn't need drugs at least to activate it then it is instantly available to uncapped players who are willing to live on drugs. That defeats the point so no.
I like how Ice Storm says the gloves help spies... come on, sure they can add 5 Dex but suggesting that PA4 is combat viable because you can wear the construction glove is a bit silly. :rolleyes:
Or you can take my idea and add a weapon that has the dex requirement needed so that you need 1 drug to use it.
so like 140 dex to use the highest dex weapon.
you still dont need to be capped to use it but hey, if someone wants to take 2 or 3 drugs, let em.
there isnt much point in pa 4s for monks and tanks they slow u down to much :(
but suggesting that PA4 is combat viable because you can wear the construction glove is a bit silly
You use the glove to assist in getting the armor on. Once it's on it either stays on by itself or you use less drugs to keep it on...
The point I'm making is that PEs and Spies have an easy-to-remove, ADDITIONAL option for boosting their mainstat enough to wear their PA, an option that the Tanks and Psi Monks flat-out do not have. Psi Monks and Tanks are restricted to implants and drugs, so that extra implant slot/bonus is not available to them.
My suggestion, to add things to the game that help the other two classes, EXPANDS Neocron, adding items to allow the use of existing items. The thread's suggestion CONTRACTS Neocron, reducing items to fit existing equipment. What would you rather have, more toys to play with or less?
Originally posted by IceStorm
You use the glove to assist in getting the armor on. Once it's on it either stays on by itself or you use less drugs to keep it on...
The point I'm making is that PEs and Spies have an easy-to-remove, ADDITIONAL option for boosting their mainstat enough to wear their PA, an option that the Tanks and Psi Monks flat-out do not have. Psi Monks and Tanks are restricted to implants and drugs, so that extra implant slot/bonus is not available to them.
My suggestion, to add things to the game that help the other two classes, EXPANDS Neocron, adding items to allow the use of existing items. The thread's suggestion CONTRACTS Neocron, reducing items to fit existing equipment. What would you rather have, more toys to play with or less?
The spy who uses PA4 without drugs, is completely and utterly gimped. So who really cares? I'd much rather use the same guns, and look almost the same, except I fire my guns faster, deal more damage with them, and take more damage before I die. Though I will point out that the fact tanks could gimp themselves and wear PA4 without drugs was the whole reason KK added another +5 to the requirement, because everybody used Bez 3, no PPR and ran around in PA4, not like PEs. :rolleyes:
suggestion for new PA requirements:
Monk: PA3 - 110 (cuz monks dont have a backbone); PA4 - 125.
Tank: PA3 - 115; PA4 - 130
Spies: PA3 - 115; PA4 130
PEs: PA3 - 95; PA4 - 105
i agree on all except PE it should be 110 so they have to use ATLEAST 1 drug to use it.
Why the heck are you comparing requirements without comparing boni?
Spy PA 3 > PE PA 4
Any PA 3 adds more than the PE PA 4.
Originally posted by Susi
Why the heck are you comparing requirements without comparing boni?
Spy PA 3 > PE PA 4
Any PA 3 adds more than the PE PA 4.
PE PA 4 means RoLH. The difference between a spy and a PE is supposedly that the spy is weaker but can use guns like the RoLH. Who wants to be a spy when PEs use the same guns and live longer?
Originally posted by Scikar
PE PA 4 means RoLH. The difference between a spy and a PE is supposedly that the spy is weaker but can use guns like the RoLH. Who wants to be a spy when PEs use the same guns and live longer?
You can even use RoLH without any PA... So that's no valid point.
Rather blame KK that there are no higher TL Weapons in the game, that can only be used by Spys (or completely gimped and drugged PEs ;-))...
In the words of fang, you should get a paper cut for this and have lemon juice squirted in it.
All I have to say is this, at which point do PE's seem overpowered to you at this point in time.
NONE
And which char has been the most problematic for KK to fix correctly.
MONKS
So, NO.
Bad Idea
PE's are the only class that NEEDS to drug to be effective, your basically saying all PE's should be gimped to have any chance at all of trying to be effective.
Nicely thought out on the monk thing, and I do slightly agree with that, but no on PEPA, they are badly in need of looking at as is, not with this nonsense aswell
Originally posted by XanX
PE's are the only class that NEEDS to drug to be effective, your basically saying all PE's should be gimped to have any chance at all of trying to be effective.
Spies too if they want to live long enough to be effective.
A tbh rahs chip setups are completely wrong and nobody would use them except myabe a melee tank using you tank chip setup well changing hardbackbone for str booster so your thread is kinda mute as it is.
If you really need to use PA 4 role to make your life fulfilled just role PE and use it on him.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.