KK, can we get an official responce on Turret dropping midfight? [Archive]

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 15:34

So it comes down to this. It seems that the three "big" clans on Pluto feel the only way they can win a battle is by using their MVPs (turrets). Every_single_fight I've had in the past 2 weeks, the opposing clan has dropped turrets midfight. It doesn't matter if they have 10 more members than we do, they drop turrets midfight.

KK, With your current track record of listening to the community I would just like a responce to see if you're "working on it". Is a plan in the works to stop this fun-deminishing/boring/lamer "tactic" that has become the core of OP wars?

I don't mind losing battles...Infact, more often than not our clan will go in outnumberd, and against all odds......I DO mind losing to AI. Dropping turrets midfight has made the one enjoyable thing not even worth logging on for.

Please KK, let us know what your plans are.

Finl

02-03-04, 15:36

/set turret_setuptime 20sec

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 15:37

well...........

i really do not know what kind of response ur looking for besides the " its a game feature"

or do u think its a damn bug

every clan fights agasint turrents droped midfight, and u can do it also,, so i dont really see whats ur problem...

maybe the fact u cant win ?

now if u say

"TURRENT DROPED BY A STEALTHED SPY"

then i would agree with ya

Candaman

02-03-04, 15:41

if u read my thread almost every clan is willing to propose a no mid fite turret dropping agreement

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 15:49

Originally posted by Devils Grace
well...........
i really do not know what kind of response ur looking for besides the " its a game feature"
I'm looking for "we're working on putting an end to it".

Originally posted by Devils Grace
or do u think its a damn bug
Nope, not a bug...It just takes a fun and exciting OP war and turns it into frustrating stupidity.

Originally posted by Devils Grace
every clan fights agasint turrents droped midfight, and u can do it also,, so i dont really see whats ur problem...

maybe the fact u cant win ?
Maybe the clans you are in, and the other 3 "big" clans. If you want to speek about who wins or loses, we can do that, let's keep this thread to mid-fight-turret-dropping.

Originally posted by Devils Grace
"TURRENT DROPED BY A STEALTHED SPY"

then i would agree with ya
AHHHH, I'm sorry, there is a HUGE difference with a stealthing spy dropping a turret as opposed to a sheltered/deflectored tank or PPU right?o_O

Originally posted by Candaman
if u read my thread almost every clan is willing to propose a no mid fite turret dropping agreement
Cannings, I think we both know that this isn't enough. Certain clans might do it, others wont....It's just like the age old "let's just not use HP durring OP wars!!!!111". It never worked, because some kiddie would use it, then the other side would get pissed and use it....etc etc. I do however commend you for that thread, and your efforts.

cyl0n

02-03-04, 15:52

Originally posted by Candaman
if u read my thread almost every clan is willing to propose a no mid fite turret dropping agreement

dude i`m sorry to say it but it WONT work...

i already had like 50 agreements like that and it never worked longer than 1 week..

so fuck it.. just put a 60 sec timer on it and we`re sorted..

.cy

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 15:57

Originally posted by ghandisfury

AHHHH, I'm sorry, there is a HUGE difference with a stealthing spy dropping a turret as opposed to a sheltered/deflectored tank or PPU right?o_O

if u cant see the diference bewten that then u dont deserve to have op's

Rieper

02-03-04, 15:59

Turrets should be an early warning system and anti ninja system rather than a way of creating a stationary runner with 10000 health and a speedgat in the time it takes to click twice.

Rade

02-03-04, 16:06

Turret dropping should have a construction timer during which
you cant move and also require construction equal to TL or
somesuch to place.

cyl0n

02-03-04, 16:07

Originally posted by Rieper
Turrets should be an early warning system and anti ninja system rather than a way of creating a stationary runner with 10000 health and a speedgat in the time it takes to click twice.

100 % agree!

in my opinion turrets were put ingame to be an early warning system and a base defense to give you more time to gather your forces near the op or in the UG and not to be an uber weapon used infight to determite who wins.

@dg wtf is your problem ?

.cy

/€
Originally posted by Rade
Turret dropping should have a construction timer during which
you cant move and also require construction equal to TL or
somesuch to place.

yes yes yes !

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:10

Originally posted by cyl0n
100 % agree!

in my opinion turrets were put ingame to be an early warning system and a base defense to give you more time to gather your forces near the op or in the UG and not to be an uber weapon used infight to determite who wins.

@dg wtf is your problem ?

.cy

my problem ?

none

i just dont agree with is statment.

why should i had a problem

i think he is the one that has problems....

everyone here contributed with ideas

what has he said so far ?

or u think a stealthed spy (90 secs) droping turrents in the midle of a fight on wich u cant see him is the same as a chra that is buffed but u can actually see him ?o_O

cyl0n

02-03-04, 16:12

its not the same thing but its both lame...

Rieper

02-03-04, 16:15

i dont believe construction skill should factor in the deployment, but i do believe in a deployment time for 30 seconds where you can see the turret, but it only has 100 health. If this was implemented i'd like to be able to place turrets ANYWHERE inside op boundaries so that i could use them to their fullest extent... also the turrets shooting each other bug should be dealt with..

Candaman

02-03-04, 16:18

you could make it so that its like C+C where u start build on the turret and while that is building up its hlt bar to full (ready to fire) then it vunerable and unable to shoot what u think?

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:19

Originally posted by cyl0n
its not the same thing but its both lame...

yes but one u can do sometin about it, the other all u can do is jackoff

if a stealthed anything cant use any weapon it shouldnt be able to place a turrent

cyl0n

02-03-04, 16:22

i guess we agree :p

OpTi

02-03-04, 16:23

Originally posted by Devils Grace
yes but one u can do sometin about it, the other all u can do is jackoff

if a stealthed anything cant use any weapon it shouldnt be able to place a turrent

true sight/AoE might not be easy or full proof but then again killing a fully buffed tank with a HH and a ppu up his ass isn't exactly the easiest thing to kill either

Edit: but i agree with a timer and NO TURRETS AT ALL WHILE STEALTHED!!!!

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:23

Originally posted by Candaman
you could make it so that its like C+C where u start build on the turret and while that is building up its hlt bar to full (ready to fire) then it vunerable and unable to shoot what u think?

yes

my toughts are that ppl should think in what is more close to reallity to making it believeble

SO a Turrent that big should take a certain amount of time to get placed
No TL required, kuz afetr that ppl will whine that they dont have a CSt in clan and they have to gimp their selves, and they are beeing screwed kuz the other clan has a CST and so they win, bla bla bla ....u know the usuall.

or as cannings say, the turrent take a certain amount of time to be ready to fire, or both in that case
wich in reality could be compared to time of placing and time to reload with bullets and set it to fire
wichever ur pick

Bengalmin

02-03-04, 16:25

Just my 2c

turrets should have a 60second timer delay during which time they are vunerable to attack but wont fire back. anyone can deply a turret (not sure about stealthed spies/PEs) and they don't have to wait by it while it deplays

this adds some use to them in op wars if you can protect them while deploying, but gives them perfect defence/early warning use

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:26

Originally posted by OpTi
true sight/AoE might not be easy or full proof but then again killing a fully buffed tank with a HH and a ppu up his ass isn't exactly the easiest thing to kill either

Edit: but i agree with a timer and NO TURRETS AT ALL WHILE STEALTHED!!!!

if u can use a true sight inside the op means that u are already inside and ur camping the UG

if a tank pop's out the UG the 1st thing that will hapen to him is get unbuffed and droped like a cherry....

either way it also means i can actually see the fucker and do sometin about it

[F6]Knight

02-03-04, 16:26

the turrets dropping mid fight simply IS a damn annoying fact
i was in one of my first big chaotic OP fights yesterday
we were waiting outside the UG with about 25-30 ppl and got ********** by maybe 5 apu's and 3-4 tanks
why?
they buffed up like hell in the UG, came out all at the same time, ran straight in the enemy crowd (us) and started dropping turrets like hell
5 seconds later i was stuck in a corner tnx to a stunner, i couldnt get away from that damn corner, not even by jumping
even more bad luck since there was a tree in the corner and i couldnt see shit
soon my screen started to fill with flames and poison dmg and i was dead

it cant get any lamer than that. i m willing to oversee the fact that stunners dont even stun but simply throw up a freaking invisible wall but turrets that are deployable on 1-2 seconds time = nuts

it takes a lot more than 2 seconds to take even a buffed apu down when he runs into an enemy crowd, big chaos and by the time u can target him he has already dropped 1 or 2 turrets and its game over since there are 5 apu's and 5 tanks doing it

gogo timer on turrets or that 100hp idea for 20-30 seconds
then its a waste of money since u can blow em away with a single hit once lamers try to deploy em mid fight

ZoomZoom

02-03-04, 16:27

midfight turrets should be band or only droped by a constructer with a time limit.

i remember a big fight at simmions i think it was against imposing order :) imposing order had the op because we couldnt find a 3rd hacker O_o and they kept droping all these turrets everywhere by there noob members that couldnt do much damage in the fight.
well it was me and j0rz.tnk at the end agaisnt 30 temps and imposing orders man that was fun he was alive for about 5 mins or more fighting em all after he died i ran to the gr and went home :)

well the point of this story is we would have won if they didnt drop turrets in midfight.

Psyco Groupie

02-03-04, 16:29

60 secs plz

Rieper

02-03-04, 16:32

Psyco Groupie

02-03-04, 16:34

If turrets start at 10 % or whatever they'd still get s/d'd and be a pain in the ass, just put a timer on the placement.

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:40

Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
If turrets start at 10 % or whatever they'd still get s/d'd and be a pain in the ass, just put a timer on the placement.

in other words u want it removed kuz its dificult for u to bypass the problem

or u want it changed kuz its unreallyalistic (spell ???)

El_MUERkO

02-03-04, 16:40

Originally posted by Devils Grace
if u cant see the diference bewten that then u dont deserve to have op's

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

Ask your clan about the fight they had with CM maybe two weeks ago at Seiger, we dropped stuns behind a bunch of people at the rear entrance and that was it, we won you lost, it was a turning point in an otherwise balanced fight that could of gone either way.

I didnt do it, I dont agree with it but it happens.

Now before you start ranting about 'CM turret dropping lamers' please focus your tiny little mind on the discussion at hand.

The present turret drop rules are exploitable. Rade has suggested a perfectly reasonable solution that will benefit your clan along with everyone elses.

Rieper

02-03-04, 16:40

Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
If turrets start at 10 % or whatever they'd still get s/d'd and be a pain in the ass, just put a timer on the placement.

hmm.. maybe turrets in construction shouldnt be able to be SDed? or perhaps turrets should never be SDed?

still i dont think its fair that a turret at 59 seconds is as vulnerable as it is at one second

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 16:48

Originally posted by El_MUERkO
[edited for consistency]

Ask your clan about the fight they had with CM maybe two weeks ago at Seiger, we dropped stuns behind a bunch of people at the rear entrance and that was it, we won you lost, it was a turning point in an otherwise balanced fight that could of gone either way.

I didnt do it, I dont agree with it but it happens.

Now before you start ranting about 'CM turret dropping lamers' please focus your tiny little mind on the discussion at hand.

The present turret drop rules are exploitable. Rade has suggested a perfectly reasonable solution that will benefit your clan along with everyone elses.

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 16:59

IMO the turrets should be able to get S/D. As FN pointed out in another thread 60 seconds might be a bit to much....maybe 15-25? That way instead of zoning up with 10 people that have 10 turrets and calling it a "tactic" you would have to wait, plan, and have cover to place a turret that could change the tide of battle.

KK, any thoughts? What do you have in mind?

Rieper

02-03-04, 17:01

yeah, tbh muerko, you're in the wrong. DG pointed out that is a feature of the game... while we know KK takes about 6 to 7 patches to correct minor bugs (like hmm.. a removal of level 3 imps from the loot tables) You'd think that by know if it was a bug they might have mentioned it.. not only that but DG was only saying that stealth dropping is wrong, he likes turret dropping in general.. and why cant he say it? Censorship of anyone who disagrees with you would be pleasant wouldnt it.. but lame as fuck.. it would be like getting banned for making a joke.

El_MUERkO

02-03-04, 17:04

Originally posted by Devils Grace
well...........

i really do not know what kind of response ur looking for besides the " its a game feature"

or do u think its a damn bug

every clan fights agasint turrents droped midfight, and u can do it also,, so i dont really see whats ur problem...

maybe the fact u cant win ?

now if u say

"TURRENT DROPED BY A STEALTHED SPY"

then i would agree with ya

The last line suggests to me you disagree with the original poster, which means you see nothing wrong with turret drops mid fight. I thought you might have attention deficit disorder, don’t worry DG its ok. After that you post some off topic crap about buffing tanks in a generally insulting manner to whoever you talk too.

phunqe

02-03-04, 17:04

My idea:

Indeed, do enforce an activation delay on the turrets, but with a twist: As long as this timer is running, the turret can still be picked up. Kind of a timer until it locks itself to the ground and activates if you will.
This way, if someone drops mid fight someone else of the opposing force can just pick it up, disarming it. This will most certainly lead to no turrets being dropped midfight where everyone stands.
Maybe it will induce some tactics like "Ok, let one person sneak away and put some over there, then we lure the foes over", instead of just dropping them in the middle of everyone, which is really lazy and bad in my opinion.

Candaman

02-03-04, 17:06

Originally posted by Rieper
hmm.. maybe turrets in construction shouldnt be able to be SDed? or perhaps turrets should never be SDed?

still i dont think its fair that a turret at 59 seconds is as vulnerable as it is at one second

Thats y i said having a hlt bar that builds up so obviously the longer its there the more hlt it has but until it hits that 100% hlt it will never be usable so even if the attackers can keep it below 100% hlt for the build up it won't fire problem solved

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 17:07

Originally posted by Rieper
yeah, tbh muerko, you're in the wrong. DG pointed out that is a feature of the game...

Is Muerko wrong? Or is DG just Trolling? You do the math....

Originally posted by Devils Grace
maybe the fact u cant win ?

Originally posted by Devils Grace
if u cant see the diference bewten that then u dont deserve to have op's

Originally posted by Devils Grace

i just dont agree with is statment.

why should i had a problem

i think he is the one that has problems....

everyone here contributed with ideas

what has he said so far ?

Originally posted by Devils Grace
in other words u want it removed kuz its dificult for u to bypass the problem

Originally posted by Devils Grace
the rest of ur post, shows that not only u are stupid as hell, if u couldnt see what was my intention on replying that (look at Cylon reply and learn) but also shows that i have been fucking ur ass to many times in game (wich is true) that when u see me u loose ur manners, wich is fine by me (as u know is what i like)

Rieper

02-03-04, 17:09

yeah man, i agree with your Idea i was just adding that i dont think turrets should be SDed coz of what PG said :)

and muerko, you're fighting a losing battle. good job on highlighting that DG made a reasonable post saying he sees nothing wrong with dropping turrets unless he cant kill the dropper (stealther)

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 17:13

Originally posted by Candaman
Thats y i said having a hlt bar that builds up so obviously the longer its there the more hlt it has but until it hits that 100% hlt it will never be usable so even if the attackers can keep it below 100% hlt for the build up it won't fire problem solved

Sorry mate, I don't understand....

Are you saying that you drop a turret, the turret show up like a health bar and is targetable. As long as it's health doesn't reach max 100% the turret is never dropped.

Or are you saying that you drop a turret, the turret shows up with a health bar and is targetable. After 15 second timer the turret is in opperation with its current health?

Candaman

02-03-04, 17:18

no like u said first when u place it, it is targetable and the hlt bar builds from 0 to full obviously immediately after placement it is most vunerable and would take a fly landing on it to detroy it but as hlt builds up it becomes harder to destroy ie. with more hlt. When hlt bar then hits 100% the turret is fully operational and can now shoot.

This would mean no one would place them in a group of people becuase it will get destroyed in .2 of a second but put it somewhere more strategic so it can get to 100% hlt unhindered and then become a functioning turret

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 17:44

just wating on my boss to leave my fucking room and ill reply

Thanatos

02-03-04, 17:46

Well we thought about this and we will add a small CST requirement on the turrets and probably make it impossible to place turrets in an OP that had its first security layer hacked.

Candaman

02-03-04, 17:49

yes, yes, yes, YES THANNY UR A G.0.D.

Alex The Great

02-03-04, 17:50

holy shit i did't see that coming.

cyl0n

02-03-04, 17:50

weeee thanks alot thanatos :D

while we`re at it..... noob buffs ? :p

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 17:52

Thank you VERY much Thontos. Any ideas on when we can expect it? But no worries, you've already answered my first question:D .

Psyco Groupie

02-03-04, 17:52

PE's with 50 cst no problem.. make it 100 cst +

Candaman

02-03-04, 17:54

get 1st hack down and don't even worry about turrets sex teh thanny

Gohei

02-03-04, 17:59

Heres an idea:

Leave it as it is.

Devils Grace

02-03-04, 18:02

i can see the bicthing coming :lol:

dont agree with CST req but agree with the 1st layer thingy

cyl0n

02-03-04, 18:02

Originally posted by Gohei
Heres an idea:

Leave it as it is.

Heres an idea:

Get some skills.

Gohei

02-03-04, 18:10

I got skills. And i guess thats one of the reason turrets dropped at OP wars doesn't bother me for shit.

Marx

02-03-04, 18:10

Originally posted by Gohei
I got skills. And i guess thats one of the reason turrets dropped at OP wars doesn't bother me for shit.

Stealth dropping skills no doubt, eh?

Zaq

02-03-04, 18:12

LOL they actually replied

*waits for all the "can we get an official response to XXX" threads to spawn*

Gohei

02-03-04, 18:15

I'm a tank.

And there are equipement against stealthers, like truesight and AOE. Besides, everyone does it but wont jusst admit it. When you'r defending an OP your goal is to keep it, and if that means to drop a turret during the fight then the turret will probably be dropped.

Marx

02-03-04, 18:16

ezza

02-03-04, 18:18

guess youve never been stuck pinned to a wall when the shock turret popped infront of you meaning you cant go anywhere, all the while a gat turret is hammering you.

only happened once mind

Organics

02-03-04, 18:20

Originally posted by Gohei
I'm a tank.

And there are equipement against stealthers, like truesight and AOE. Besides, everyone does it but wont jusst admit it. When you'r defending an OP your goal is to keep it, and if that means to drop a turret during the fight then the turret will probably be dropped.

Don't think anyone minds the actual turrets being dropped, just being dropped in 1 - 2 seconds flat, thus creating a very complicated and powerful hostile which is utterly unrealistic.

By all means, drop a turret. But don't expect to have the ability to do it practically instantly with no skill involved at all (game skills, not player skills), then carry on fighting as well. Either the CST skill bit or a timer, personally I prefer timer but then that will create no end of cries for "nerf teh timerz!!11" to whatever period of time.

~Drav~

02-03-04, 18:24

The problem with that tahnatos is that it puts the defenders at a even bigger disadvantage as they already are . . . atm the attackers, if they do things right, are at a huge advantage anyhow due to the fact that the defenders have to zone up from UG and most likely crash or just plain die in synch at the barreling and AOE etc ...

Gestra

02-03-04, 18:25

Yay having first layer hacked making it impossible to drop turrets will make turrets 90% of useless at all the ops where the turrets just disapeer when people leave the zone.

How about fixing that bug first?

One reason turrets are dropped by the defending force is that it is fucking pointless to turret quite a few of the op any other way, Since they vanish slide around on the ground etc.

Then again the defenders should always be at the disavantage right?

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 18:32

Originally posted by Gohei
Besides, everyone does it but wont jusst admit it.
I don't do it, my clan doesn't do it.....We must not be included in "everybody".

Originally posted by Gohei
When you'r defending an OP your goal is to keep it, and if that means to drop a turret during the fight then the turret will probably be dropped.
This mentality is exactly what destroys this game. "I fight to win, it doesn't matter if it's lame, it doesn't matter if I'm exploiting game mechanics, it doesn't matter if I look like a 12 year old". See the difference from me and you is I don't fight to win. I fight to fight and enjoy myself. Many people on Pluto can attest to the fact that I might not have "skillzorz", and I might not be "the best in the class", but I will always fight...and fight with honor. I don't care about winning or losing, I care about having a good time doing it. Not only that, I care about the opposing force having a good time as well. When people pull lame stunts like turret dropping midfight, it only proves that they don't care about fighting.....they only care about winning. Childish to say the least.

rhPhMe

02-03-04, 18:42

I don't do it, my clan doesn't do it.....We must not be included in "everybody".

lol.....turrets are a good asset in op fights.....its your choice not to use them....dont wine on the forums about.....waaa they dropped turrets and killed my clan...

thats the only thing i hate about this game....is everyone crying about turrets about numbers.......get over it....get poked and attack again...

Candaman

02-03-04, 18:44

again a person who does not know what in a fite is fun and whats not. No clan likes battling vs countless numbers of turrets they get demorolised and think whats the point its like a endless army. Then this leads to ninja hacking and then leads to them laying turrets and back and forth it goes screw that screw turrets bring on good op fites gd job kk

rhPhMe

02-03-04, 18:47

KK could put in a building skill or something.....lower the skill the longer it takes to drop a turret.....the more skill you have ....faster drop.....and have like a min of 40 secs or something for a drop....spies only or something

Candaman

02-03-04, 18:54

u are forgetting that turrets are defensive not offensive u should not use them as xtra team mate mid fite

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 18:54

Originally posted by rhPhMe
lol.....turrets are a good asset in op fights.....its your choice not to use them....dont wine on the forums about.....waaa they dropped turrets and killed my clan...

thats the only thing i hate about this game....is everyone crying about turrets about numbers.......get over it....get poked and attack again...

You must be proud RH. "DUDE WE DROPPSORD 20 TURRETS AND KELLED TEM ALL HAR HAR". I like fighting my battles with skill. Now with this responce from Thontos clans that once found themselves powerfull will now find that it takes more than a "right click-drop turret" to win a fight.

Rade

02-03-04, 18:56

Gestra

02-03-04, 18:59

Originally posted by Candaman
u are forgetting that turrets are defensive not offensive u should not use them as xtra team mate mid fite

What should they be used for then? I thing to sit around and have tea and crumpets? Turrets are a defensive aid, Gee when would one use a defensive aid, Perhaps during a battle maybe oh man what crazy insane logic there using a defensive tool during a battle when you are defending your base.

Turrets are not too strong or hard to take down, TBH if they took away the ability to shelter and deflector turrets they would be hardly a problem at all to take out.

Candaman

02-03-04, 19:01

since when has a defensive line been placed behind attackers?

Gestra

02-03-04, 19:05

Ever since flanking the enemy was discovered.

Nah for centuries people have not out flanked the enemy and attack them from the rear. Oh no might in fact it even be a legitimate tactic of war. Imaging an attack having to watch more than what is infront of them, Appalling.

Turrets, neocrons light calvary. They reinforce a defensive line and can also destroy a badly set up attacking force by hitting them from the side, from the rear.

Candaman

02-03-04, 19:09

and unlimmitless undestroyable force that u can simple be zerged by at teh click of a button get real

Possessed

02-03-04, 19:11

Gestra... put down your copy of Sun Tze's Art of War and get a dose of Neocron.

•Super|\|ova•

02-03-04, 19:21

Originally posted by Devils Grace
yes

my toughts are that ppl should think in what is more close to reallity to making it believeble

SO a Turrent that big should take a certain amount of time to get placed
No TL required, kuz afetr that ppl will whine that they dont have a CSt in clan and they have to gimp their selves, and they are beeing screwed kuz the other clan has a CST and so they win, bla bla bla ....u know the usuall.

or as cannings say, the turrent take a certain amount of time to be ready to fire, or both in that case
wich in reality could be compared to time of placing and time to reload with bullets and set it to fire
wichever ur pick

1. The fun in games isn't related to reality in any way. It's all about balance. If you're after reality then you prolly want every PSI stuff removed from the game too?

2. And if they don't have a CSTer in their clan so what? That just probably means they aren't big enough to even consider about owning an OP. I don't know a single clan who OP fights and doesn't have a CSTer.

But anyway... I'm all for fixing this shit for good.

•Super|\|ova•

02-03-04, 19:29

Originally posted by ghandisfury
You must be proud RH. "DUDE WE DROPPSORD 20 TURRETS AND KELLED TEM ALL HAR HAR". I like fighting my battles with skill. Now with this responce from Thontos clans that once found themselves powerfull will now find that it takes more than a "right click-drop turret" to win a fight.

Let him be... he's NCF :rolleyes:

SigmaDraconis

02-03-04, 19:31

ah the flanking explanation, works great in real life..then we come to consider real war means loss of life so completely obliterating your enemy with as little fighting as possible is a good thing. Problem is THIS IS A GAME (wow imagine that) where completly obliterating your enemy without having to do any real fighting COMPLETELY DEFIES THE POINT OF PAYING 10$ A MONTH!

On top of that it doesnt take a poorly organized force to be devistated by turrets, an attacking force can compeltely destroy all but 1-3 people form the defending side, move into the OP to continue hacking and finish off the stragglers, those last 1-3 ppl can then magically place a couple of stuns in a loose ring around the bulk of the attacking force ( add any stealth h0rs who didnt show up for the rest of the battle dropping turrets now aswell ) physically COMPLETELY pinning them in divets corners and against walls where they cannot move AT ALL, followed up by a few well placed gats. Add in the fire power of the last few survivors oh lets say a PPU and an APU ( because realisticly a PPU would be one of the last standing ) and they can easily drop 10-15 people, remember your PPU's cant move to buff or reheal most of their teamates, and none of you can effectivly coordinate attacks to take down the turrets or the players because you have absolutly NO mobility, and you have no way to move into cover or means of reorganization/adaption. ( which im sure someone so versed in the arts of war like yourself would know are both common and neccesary components of a battle ) Basically it leaves nothing left for them to do besides stand there and shoot you, and you with nothing left to do but helplessly shoot at something you can barely see/target and wait to be finished off by either a turret or the opposing team.

Lifewaster

02-03-04, 20:16

I really dont see whats wrong with dropping turrets when your outnumbered.

Anyways heres some kinda of fix suggestion:

When a turret is attempted to drop.
Game counts the number of existing turrets
Game counts number of owning clan in zone or UG.
Game counts number of attackers in zone somehow?

Some simple calculation happens and then either the turret drops as normal, or the turret drops with a 5 minute pre-use delay, so can still drop in advance etc.

Fez

02-03-04, 20:22

Ghandifury, i dont want this to turn into a flame fest but u do drop turrents everybody has at one point or another.

i personaly feel dropping turrent mid battle is lame but when else can u drop em ?

if u turrnt an op some a55hole is gogin to come and kill em anyways they aree of no realy use prior ro an op war, that wahst needs to be changed

Candaman

02-03-04, 20:26

Originally posted by Lifewaster
I really dont see whats wrong with dropping turrets when your outnumbered.

Anyways heres some kinda of fix suggestion:

When a turret is attempted to drop.
Game counts the number of existing turrets
Game counts number of owning clan in zone or UG.
Game counts number of attackers in zone somehow?

Some simple calculation happens and then either the turret drops as normal, or the turret drops with a 5 minute pre-use delay, so can still drop in advance etc.

lmao maybe server can suck and fuck me too maybe if we stick within the realms of reality???

Psyco Groupie

02-03-04, 20:27

Originally posted by Possessed
Gestra... put down your copy of Sun Tze's Art of War and get a dose of Neocron.

ha ha ha

g0rt

02-03-04, 20:31

TBH I really don't mind turrets being dropped mid-fight. 90% of the time it only means two things to me....

1) we just wasted the other clans money

2) got some exp :D

Originally posted by Gestra
What should they be used for then? I thing to sit around and have tea and crumpets? Turrets are a defensive aid, Gee when would one use a defensive aid, Perhaps during a battle maybe oh man what crazy insane logic there using a defensive tool during a battle when you are defending your base.

Turrets are not too strong or hard to take down, TBH if they took away the ability to shelter and deflector turrets they would be hardly a problem at all to take out.

I gotta agree 100% with gestra, the benefit of ATTACKING an op is catching the owning clan off-guard, the benefit of OWNING the op is being able to drop security turrets.

There has to be an advantage to being the defender, and turrets are just that. Hell, my clan never uses turrets mid-fight unless were highly outnumbered, and I have gotten REALLY angry in the past at other clans dropping countless turrets mid fight (*cough* at sieger vs cm *cough* :p ) but the fact still stand that the BENEFIT of owning the op is to be able to get turrets to help fight fo ryou.

ghandisfury

02-03-04, 20:32

Originally posted by Fez
Ghandifury, i dont want this to turn into a flame fest but u do drop turrents everybody has at one point or another.
No I don't, have never, will never. And if you don't want it to turn into a flame fest, please refrain from lying.

Originally posted by Fez
i personaly feel dropping turrent mid battle is lame but when else can u drop em ?
Then stop doing it. Believe it or not, there is a way to drop the Pre-battle......

Originally posted by Fez
if u turrnt an op some a55hole is gogin to come and kill em anyways they aree of no realy use prior ro an op war, that wahst needs to be changed
There is a big use prior to an OP war....they double your defences at least, and that is what they are for...not to triple your offences.

Marx

02-03-04, 20:33

Originally posted by Fez
i personaly feel dropping turrent mid battle is lame but when else can u drop em ?

http://dirtynuke.net/3-33b.jpg

CHARGE... er... wait...

Better yet!

http://dirtynuke.net/dbrown_WWII_Pill_Box.jpg

CHARGE!!! ... damnit, this isn't working.

In my eyes, a turret is a defensive measure. There to provide a reasonable amount of protection in your absence. To me, people using turrets offensively is just as asinine as seeing people try to use barbed wire offensively.

They're set defenses, not extra guns to be unleashed if the battle turns away from you.

Shadow Dancer

02-03-04, 20:39

um, you get XP for killing turrets?

•Super|\|ova•

02-03-04, 20:39

Originally posted by Fez
i personaly feel dropping turrent mid battle is lame but when else can u drop em ?

WHAAAAAAAAAAT???? Are you serious dude?? How about when there's no fights going on??? What are you on? AAAARRRRGGGHH!!!

Fez

02-03-04, 20:43

turrent as still to easily destroyed by any solo runner, if u want turrent pre-battle u have to palce them every 20 mins which would be to expensive and to much a pain in the ass.

at this point in the game turrent defend nothing there just there for some random noob 001 to come along and blow up, if they cant be place mid battel they need upping damge wise IMO

and i was refering to ur clan not u ghandi...

g0rt

02-03-04, 20:44

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
um, you get XP for killing turrets?

Ya a 110/110 turret gives the same exp as a grim perse :p

•Super|\|ova•

02-03-04, 20:53

Originally posted by Fez
turrent as still to easily destroyed by any solo runner, if u want turrent pre-battle u have to palce them every 20 mins which would be to expensive and to much a pain in the ass.

at this point in the game turrent defend nothing there just there for some random noob 001 to come along and blow up, if they cant be place mid battel they need upping damge wise IMO

No way dude! You're arguments are absurd. Can't you see how hard it is to destoroy them in the middle of the fight when at the same time you have to concentrate on killing the actual enemies who can move and think? If you can't afford it then don't do it. We rarely even have any turrets in our OPs and that doesn't give us any head ache.

So let me get this straight... you rather get your clan a warning when the OP is attacked than actually fight against your enemies yourselves and not make the turrets do it for you?

Fez

02-03-04, 21:05

there is Never any warnings. cause there is never any turrents there . U cant say there a warning system when there constanly destroyed but random n00b 001 . By the time theres a real op war the turrent are either bugged/ destryoed themselves or been destroyed by a random n00b. pre battle there useless and mid fight there lame

AND i never said placing them mid fight is a tatic infact I think its kinda lame and personaly i have never laid turrent in a op war on pluto ever.

I just think turrents are still useless moneypits.

ezza

02-03-04, 21:12

Originally posted by g0rt
Ya a 110/110 turret gives the same exp as a grim perse :p rofl, thats great, if that true this is the best thing posted in this thread

wonders off to find enemy op and blow its turrets :p

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 00:35

Originally posted by ghandisfury
I don't do it, my clan doesn't do it.....We must not be included in "everybody".

This mentality is exactly what destroys this game. "I fight to win, it doesn't matter if it's lame, it doesn't matter if I'm exploiting game mechanics, it doesn't matter if I look like a 12 year old". See the difference from me and you is I don't fight to win. I fight to fight and enjoy myself. Many people on Pluto can attest to the fact that I might not have "skillzorz", and I might not be "the best in the class", but I will always fight...and fight with honor. I don't care about winning or losing, I care about having a good time doing it. Not only that, I care about the opposing force having a good time as well. When people pull lame stunts like turret dropping midfight, it only proves that they don't care about fighting.....they only care about winning. Childish to say the least.

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

g0rt

03-03-04, 00:47

Originally posted by Devils Grace
[edited for consistency]

Hahahahahhaha devils grace > all

Organics

03-03-04, 01:04

Hehe I just love how DG explains himself and gets that point across!! :D

Also agree with him, nothing actually wrong with dropping turrets, but we need a delay on it. I posted earlier that having a timer might make ppl constantly cry "nerf timerz!!11" but if it was implemented it'd probably work actually.

Better than needing Construction anyway.

ghandisfury

03-03-04, 01:33

Originally posted by Devils Grace
u SIR come up here with a valid issue, and totally use the wrong arguments to back it up.... in anothers words..... (insert again)
As the rest of your post was riddled with flames, I'll edit it to the pertinent stuff. What valid issue did I miss? I stated that the three "big" clans on Pluto execute the "tactic" regularly.......What did I miss? And why would I name names? I wanted an answere to an issue that is slowly but surely turning a very fun game become a frustrating moneypit. If you would have read my post carefully you would note that I win regularly....all the time infact. What I also said is that win or lose, I want to have fun, and I want the people I'm killing (or killing me) to also enjoy themselves. Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but having 5 people pop out of the UG with 10 turrets, and shortly after that being stuck to a wall isn't fun at all. It only shows a serious flaw in character.....winning at all costs means sooner or later somebody is going to pay big. Look at the hybrids.

Originally posted by Devils Grace
YES the turrent droping should take more time that it takes now, NO it shouldnt require to have CST skill..... WHY ??

simple, ur not constructing, ur placing an item on the floor, or maybe assembling it.....if u checked movies when they place the big cannons, they take some time to assemble the parts, and fixing it to the floor, etc etc....
If you (and others) wouldn't have the "hybrid mentality" then nerfs like this wouldn't take place. People come to the forums after thier clan of 30 gets owned by two hybrids and say "hybrids are too powerfull"...then you come back and say "WTF DUD THIS IS A TEME GAIM AND IT TAKES A TEME TO BETE HYBRIDS!" or my favorite "DUD GET SOME SKILLZORZ NUB". So after 6 to 8 months of the shit and populations dropping through the basement floor KK doesn't give hybrids a bit of a tweek, they bend them over and have them make pig noises. Same thing with turrets.....it can only go on so long with you guys saying "DUD TEHRES NOTING ROGN WITH TURRETS!!! ITS A TECTIC!". KK will eventuall fix the problem, and you will have little to no imput on the matter. You make your bed kiddo, now sleep in it.

Originally posted by Devils Grace
ur placing an item on the floor, or maybe assembling it

Almost sounds like placing things in your proccessor and assembling them no? Maybe they should rename construction to assembling skill....;)

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 02:04

Originally posted by Fez
there is Never any warnings. cause there is never any turrents there . U cant say there a warning system when there constanly destroyed but random n00b 001 . By the time theres a real op war the turrent are either bugged/ destryoed themselves or been destroyed by a random n00b. pre battle there useless and mid fight there lame

AND i never said placing them mid fight is a tatic infact I think its kinda lame and personaly i have never laid turrent in a op war on pluto ever.

I just think turrents are still useless moneypits.

Well what's the fucking point drop in the middle of the fight then? They will A. ruin the PvP experience in that fight B. be destroyed after the fight by those random n00bs if they didn't get destroyed in that fight C. be owned by your enemy after the fight if they still excist. So basically you are just wasting them more with the way you explained you're doing it atm.

Or might it be just about the lameness that you want to get the OP in any means possible? :rolleyes:

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:11

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 02:16

Originally posted by Devils Grace
are u talking about PvP. .... or ur talking about op's wars.....o_O

Umm... just out of curiosity; what is OP fighting if it ain't PvP? As far as I can see it it's full PvP-situation o_O

ghandisfury

03-03-04, 02:20

Originally posted by Devils Grace
jesus, im so dumb
Finally we agree on something. Won't bother with the rest of the post.

MrChumble

03-03-04, 02:36

Originally posted by Thanatos
Well we thought about this and we will add a small CST requirement on the turrets and probably make it impossible to place turrets in an OP that had its first security layer hacked.

This is excellent news, thanks Thanatos.

Only two downsides I can see:

1) if the cst requirement is too low then the cst3 buff is going to get a lot of use (easily avoided) :)

2) What do we do now when we get zerged by 2x numbers? :confused:

Also please delay the patch that will implement this until I've used up all the turrets I just finished making!

MrChumble

03-03-04, 02:40

Originally posted by Devils Grace
[edited for consistency]

While you are a member of the Neocron Service, you must abide by the following rules.

2) Generally, you may not use any offensive or sexually explicit language. You may use such language in a roleplaying context. But be aware of the fact that in a possible verbal harassment situation Reakktor Media Support staff will assume a non-roleplaying situation, if in doubt.

If I wanted to read stuff like that I'd go play CS. Wanna try using reasoned argument instead of whatever the hell type of persuasion that is supposed to be.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:41

Originally posted by ghandisfury
Finally we agree on something. Won't bother with the rest of the post.

to me PvP is player versus player in a one to one situation

what is it to u ?

@gandfuzzi yes finally we agree that u do not have any smart ( and u never had or ever will) coments to defend ur onw idead :confused:

u know, when they put this game u will still be loosing, u will bicth about it, and i will laugh bout it, and at the end im getin what i pay for

ghandisfury

03-03-04, 02:41

Originally posted by MrChumble
This is excellent news, thanks Thanatos.

Only two downsides I can see:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrChumble
[B]1) if the cst requirement is too low then the cst3 buff is going to get a lot of use (easily avoided) :)
Good point. Maybe 80-100? Either way construction boost will get some use.

Originally posted by MrChumble
2) What do we do now when we get zerged by 2x numbers? :confused:
You fight bro.....or you don't. So many people think dying against that many people is a horrible thing.....yes, odds are you will die, but there's that one shot that you could make it, come out alive, and talk about it six months later. Win or lose, it should be fun.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:43

MrChumble

03-03-04, 02:46

Originally posted by ghandisfury
Win or lose, it should be fun.

Yup yup :)

But being crushed due to numbers (or worse ninja hacked by a clan I won't mention, but who's name rhymes with Silent) isn't fun. Dropping a few turrets did sway the balance sometimes, although I'd rather go with the cst requirement.

Really the whole OP system needs to be re-thought from the ground up, there is very little about it that actually works in a fun way. Even battles that last for a reasonable length of time may not be very realistic, but they are a lot more fun than gankings and ninjas. Going slightly off topic here :)

MrChumble

03-03-04, 02:47

Originally posted by Devils Grace
and who da fuck are u anyway

MrChumble. Somone who is never going to bother reading or replying to your posts again.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:49

Originally posted by MrChumble
MrChumble. Somone who is never going to bother reading or replying to your posts again.

wy do uthink im here to getin ur reply

i will post them tho untill i quit or get banned either way

its like ignore

its there use it:p

Bl@zed

03-03-04, 02:51

fucking deal with it and quit whining ffs, everyone drops turrets mid fight, its not a fucking exploit :wtf:

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:52

LOLLERS

Ghost do not bother

they wont reply...

:lol:

Bl@zed

03-03-04, 02:54

i fucking hate all these whining bitches, cause they cant win a op war, so they bitch on the damn forums...so nibbish.
notice this is the same person that started that oh so wonderful "using overpowered parashock halo is an exploit" thread.

L0KI

03-03-04, 02:55

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

As for dropping turrets mid fight...

I believe that it CAN be a fair tactic, and it can also be a lame tactic. It utterly depends on the situation. Say for example you are defending Soliko, and are outnumbered by your enemy. Then, dropping turrets is a must.

If, however, you are defending an OP such as Jeriko - with even numbers on each side, and you drop turrets as the enemy enters the OP.......thats lame. :p

I do think turrets should have a 30 second/1 min planting time on them. That would avoid people blocking enemies into a corner with the oh-so-popular stun-traps.

g0rt

03-03-04, 02:56

Originally posted by MrChumble
If I wanted to read stuff like that I'd go play CS. Wanna try using reasoned argument instead of whatever the hell type of persuasion that is supposed to be.

What are you 9 years old, can't handle "dumbfuckgoat" HAHAHAHAHAH christ....grow up....people who cry and get offended by some foul language are just as immature and lame as anyone thats spitting it out tbh :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by L0KI
[B][edited for consistency]QUOTE]

Posts like this just fuel the fire.....

L0KI

03-03-04, 02:59

Originally posted by g0rt
Posts like this just fuel the fire.....

Maybe if the dog had a leash, there would be no problem.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 02:59

Originally posted by L0KI
[edited for consistency]

i shall not be silent, speacially by ur person "phew":lol:

1st i didnt disagree with him, i agreed with him
what i do not agree was with his arguments
they were notin else but flaming other clans on pluto wich he cant win (thats his own words)....my guess u are the same ??

then comes someone that totally agrees with him and then ask for a delay on the patch kuz he just spent money on building turrents to actually use on op's kuz he doesnt know what to do if ppl zerg them 2x ?8| o_O :wtf: O_o

can now i shut

Organics

03-03-04, 03:01

*holds out hands to the heat*

:D

[edited for consistency]

Last paragraph was the only one needed tbh, delete the first 2 paragraphs and the last line, then reword paragraph 3 to make sense at the end of it.

You make it more amusing for DG by replying to him, and making it appear that you are getting wound up by all this.

Relax, it's not so serious. We already had official word on the topic. Flaming flamers is as bad as flaming. Or something :p

MrChumble

03-03-04, 03:01

Originally posted by Bl@zed
i fucking hate all these whining bitches, cause they cant win a op war, so they bitch on the damn forums...so nibbish.

I dislike people who don't add anything to discussions but feel the need to speak anyway.

everyone drops turrets mid fight, its not a fucking exploit

Whether everyone does it or not isn't the issue. Whether it adds to the game and makes it more fun, or ruins op wars, pisses people off and makes the best part of the game a bit crap is what people are discussing.

If there was a TL3 apu spell that killed everything in one hit, took half a second to cast and used no mana I'm sure everyone would use it too. It would suck ass though. Luckily KK aren't that dumb (touch wood) and even more luckily they are doing something about turret drops :D

g0rt

03-03-04, 03:01

Originally posted by L0KI
Maybe if the dog had a leash, there would be no problem.

At least devils grace's posts are funny and enjoyable to read, thats saying more then the usual boring ass posts on this forum with lack of personality

Whether everyone does it or not isn't the issue. Whether it adds to the game and makes it more fun, or ruins op wars, pisses people off and makes the best part of the game a bit crap is what people are discussing.

Sorry pal, no bone. If a clan can't handle a few turrets being dropped at an op fight, they should invest in some skills and tactics because any good op fighting group will be able to smoke turrets, I can honestly say unless we are heavily outnumbered, dropping turrets in op fights against cartel is just helping overcap our chars.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 03:02

Originally posted by L0KI
Maybe if the dog had a leash, there would be no problem.

i got no problem ? do u ?

besides that, we dont need to know anything about ur personal life:D

L0KI

03-03-04, 03:03

I dont play Pluto, and i certainly dont bitch when i lose. :D

I have no idea who any of the clans are that have been complained about. Im simply going by the community member's posts.

My post did kind of fuel it a bit, but something needed to bring it to a halt ;)

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 03:05

Originally posted by MrChumble
I dislike people who don't add anything to discussions but feel the need to speak anyway.

how do u look urself to a mirror ??

and dont forget when KK implants this new feature u will also not be able to drop turrents and spoil other ppl fun, and ruin op wars and all the rest crap u just said... err crap no sorry, i mean valid coment

L0KI

03-03-04, 03:06

Originally posted by g0rt
At least devils grace's posts are funny and enjoyable to read, thats saying more then the usual boring ass posts on this forum with lack of personality

I know what u mean, and tbh, i dont have a problem with him personally. He just gets a bit out of hand every once in a while.

Its weird, I had a friend that was very similar (Matt_uk24), he is permenantly banned from the forums.

PS - Ive had a few to drink ;) Perhaps ill take my own, wise advice and go give MYSELF a paper cut :p

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 03:07

Originally posted by Devils Grace
to me PvP is player versus player in a one to one situation

what is it to u ?

For me it is what it really means. And that is what I explained in my previous post already. Just FYI I didn't make it up. It's one of those unwritten laws. PvP just means that.

Organics

03-03-04, 03:08

Drink = teh win :D

Some of that tomorrow methinks.

I have a friend like DG, my buddy in Germany is like him. Quite funny really, used to play UO together and he was just like DG, swears like mad at ppl when they say stupid things, do stupid things etc. Used to make me laugh alot.

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 03:09

Originally posted by Bl@zed
fucking deal with it and quit whining ffs, everyone drops turrets mid fight, its not a fucking exploit :wtf:

*sigh* NOT EVERYONE! Maybe your clan and your enemies but not my clan no matter how hard you would try.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 03:11

Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
For me it is what it really means. And that is what I explained in my previous post already. Just FYI I didn't make it up. It's one of those unwritten laws. PvP just means that.

agreed

i was just trying to understand how can he start a thread by saying he always loose to the same ppl that uses the same lame exploitable (?)(wichever he ment by that) and then a few pages after he says that he never loose

8|

@ LOKI <3 Devils

noooo :lol:
u ruined the fun nows

Bl@zed

03-03-04, 03:13

well, every clan on saturn drops turrets when they are loosing, so they can rez there ddead and keep the fight going. When turrets are dropped aginst us in a op fight, EVEYRONE drops their target and goes after the stun/gat/artillery that was dropped, and its eliminated less than 1min after its dropped. You just gotta be organized, and mid fight turret drops can't hurt you.

g0rt

03-03-04, 03:15

Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
*sigh* NOT EVERYONE! Maybe your clan and your enemies but not my clan no matter how hard you would try.

Why? So you can have an excuse why you lost?

Thats just as pathetic as people raiding MB/CRP/ETC without a PPU, so when they get the shit kicked out of them they ALWAYS have an excuse..."YEAH WELL WE DIDNT HAVE A PPU!"

Pathetic

Turrets are in the game for a reason, if you're attacked and you can't stop the force attacking you, they should be used. There should always be a bonus to the defender. It goes back as far as games like Colonization and Civilization, when you attack the enemy has a 50% defending bonus.

That 50% defending bonus in Neocron is turrets. If you don't think you can beat the clan waiting at the op AND turrets, don't go....

We never had a problem plowing through countless turrets, hell one fight against CM they dropped so many turrets we couldn't win, after fighting for about an hour and getting NO headway we had to pull out. Lame? Maybe...but it was THIER op, and it was THIER defending bonus to be able to drop those turrets, so..so be it.

If I stealth scout a pack of 20 enemies heading towards my outpost and we only have 10 people on defending, im gonna drop turrets...and if you don't liek it, too bad.

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 03:15

Originally posted by Organics
....swears like mad at ppl when they say stupid things, do stupid things etc. Used to make me laugh alot.

thx for that iluminate :D

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 03:16

Originally posted by Bl@zed
well, every clan on saturn drops turrets when they are loosing, so they can rez there ddead and keep the fight going. When turrets are dropped aginst us in a op fight, EVEYRONE drops their target and goes after the stun/gat/artillery that was dropped, and its eliminated less than 1min after its dropped. You just gotta be organized, and mid fight turret drops can't hurt you.

Too bad for you. I wouldn't just swallow that shit like that. I don't like the taste of it at all.

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 03:17

Originally posted by g0rt
Why? So you can have an excuse why you lost?

Thats just as pathetic as people raiding MB/CRP/ETC without a PPU, so when they get the shit kicked out of them they ALWAYS have an excuse..."YEAH WELL WE DIDNT HAVE A PPU!"

Pathetic

Turrets are in the game for a reason, if you're attacked and you can't stop the force attacking you, they should be used. There should always be a bonus to the defender. It goes back as far as games like Colonization and Civilization, when you attack the enemy has a 50% defending bonus.

That 50% defending bonus in Neocron is turrets. If you don't think you can beat the clan waiting at the op AND turrets, don't go....

We never had a problem plowing through countless turrets, hell one fight against CM they dropped so many turrets we couldn't win, after fighting for about an hour and getting NO headway we had to pull out. Lame? Maybe...but it was THIER op, and it was THIER defending bonus to be able to drop those turrets, so..so be it.

If I stealth scout a pack of 20 enemies heading towards my outpost and we only have 10 people on defending, im gonna drop turrets...and if you don't liek it, too bad.

Well, some clans like the PvP in the fight. Not some turrets doing the work for them. Not even a part of it. But hey, it's your choice.

g0rt

03-03-04, 03:20

Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, some clans like the PvP in the fight. Not some turrets doing the work for them. Not even a part of it. But hey, it's your choice.

Are you telling me that you are stupid enough to think that a clan will drop turrets and stand around, stop fighting?

And are you telling me that if you see numbers coming to attack you that you know for a FACT you cannot beat, you will stand there and accept your loss?

Anyway, if the clans you are fighting against cant handle turrets, then whatever server you are playing on stinks. I don't know a single big-game clan on Saturn that can't handle a few turrets, holy heal > any turret anyway so i really fail to see the problem. Again, if turrets are stopping your clan from winning fights, i think you should go back to the drawing board before you try and take and hold ops anymore...

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 03:23

Originally posted by g0rt
Are you telling me that you are stupid enough to think that a clan will drop turrets and stand around, stop fighting?

And are you telling me that if you see numbers coming to attack you that you know for a FACT you cannot beat, you will stand there and accept your loss?

Anyway, if the clans you are fighting against cant handle turrets, then whatever server you are playing on stinks. I don't know a single big-game clan on Saturn that can't handle a few turrets, holy heal > any turret anyway so i really fail to see the problem. Again, if turrets are stopping your clan from winning fights, i think you should go back to the drawing board before you try and take and hold ops anymore...

just like i wanted to say

he could included some "dumbfuck stupid" words :lol: :D

but thats why he is the leader "bows";)

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 04:45

Originally posted by g0rt
Are you telling me that you are stupid enough to think that a clan will drop turrets and stand around, stop fighting?

No. Are you telling me you're stupid enough to think that if you use turrets in the middle of a fight it's still all about skills?

And are you telling me that if you see numbers coming to attack you that you know for a FACT you cannot beat, you will stand there and accept your loss?

Yes. If I'm gonna lose no use to make my enemy feel bad by using stupid turrets. Our enemies are still humans as well. Some ppl still know the meaning of a word called "honour". I consider myself lost if I go as down as dropping 10 turrets around OP in the middle of a fight. It..... is.... LAME! No challenge in that.

Anyway, if the clans you are fighting against cant handle turrets, then whatever server you are playing on stinks. I don't know a single big-game clan on Saturn that can't handle a few turrets, holy heal > any turret anyway so i really fail to see the problem. Again, if turrets are stopping your clan from winning fights, i think you should go back to the drawing board before you try and take and hold ops anymore...

Ok kiddie... first of all it's not about if ppl can or can't handle them. The idea is stupid. If you can't see that then fine... I'm not blaming you. But hey, how about actually state arguments for your words and not just try to make fun of me and make other ppl think you're a funny guy and that must mean you're also right. Since you really do that. Prove your so called "facts" true and I'll eat my words dude. Otherwise shut up.

g0rt

03-03-04, 05:04

Ok kiddie... first of all it's not about if ppl can or can't handle them. The idea is stupid. If you can't see that then fine... I'm not blaming you. But hey, how about actually state arguments for your words and not just try to make fun of me and make other ppl think you're a funny guy and that must mean you're also right. Since you really do that. Prove your so called "facts" true and I'll eat my words dude. Otherwise shut up.

hehe getting a little angry are we? :lol:

all i know is, my clan has no problem overcoming turrets, so why should any other clans?

turret dropping midfight is only a problem for noobies, im sorry to say

as for the kiddie comment, im 22 but man i wish i was still a kiddie :( being able to relive the past 10 years of my life would be GREAT....

Shadow Dancer

03-03-04, 05:11

Originally posted by g0rt
hehe getting a little angry are we? :lol:

all i know is, my clan has no problem overcoming turrets, so why should any other clans?

turret dropping midfight is only a problem for noobies, im sorry to say

I think you're missing his point. he's not arguing that he can't handle it and that's why it should be changed, or that most people can't handle it. He's saying it's lame period.

It's like back in the past, when people said "oh I killed a few hybrids" as an arguement to show that they are not overpowered. But just because you can kill something, doesn't mean it's not overpowered. Likewise, just because you can overcome turrets, doesn't mean there's no problem ATM. Now if you disagree with him and think turrets aren't a problem, then that's really the only thing you should say(and why they arent's a problem).

But saying that only noobies can't handle them, or that you have no problem handling them, is kind of irrelevant.

Anyways, I personally feel that turrets are abused and misused. About op owners getting some sort of bonus, I do believe they should get some sort of bonus. But atm the turret system is wrong. IMO each op(depending on the op) should have a set amount of turrets in specific locations that "power down" when someone shoots it to 0 health. Fortresses could have alot more turrets and stronger ones than other ops. And the defending clan can choose when to activate each turret. So maybe they can activate some turrets at a critical time when they need it. But it's not so cheesy as just to send some lame ass with obliterator dropping turrets 5-6 turrets behind people in the space of like 20 seconds.

Ops really should give better bonuses IMO, but that's another thread. :D

I don't think turrets should be dropped mid-battle. That's lame. Because of the inflated economy, a skill-less clan can just drop a bajillion turrets and have stealthing spy/pes going around shitting out turrets left and right and causing trouble.

It reminds me of the hybrid problem. The best hybrids could take own 4-5 people at the same time. The shitty ones STILL gave you alot of trouble, because of how oveprowered the class was. I mean when they were in their overpowered prime, heheh.

Anyways, that's my 2 credits.

g0rt

03-03-04, 05:31

Im just disagreeing that its a problem thats all SD.

From my point of view turrets aren't a problem. They have never WON a fight for me, and I have never LOST a fight due to them...except in maybe 2 extreme cases I can think of in the past 6 months.

Maybe its a bigger problem on Pluto? Im just saying....from my personal experiance turrets dont decide outcomes of op fights, so I don't see how they hurt anything...they are simply a small bonus for the defender, who should have a bonus of some sort.

Ferabukoo

03-03-04, 07:38

why not make it like wc3..

where you have to build them and as they build their health goes up .. and once it gets to 100% it starts to fire.. that way they could be killed when they are only at like 4 % with ease.

great idea.. but nooo

g0rt

03-03-04, 07:56

Originally posted by Ferabukoo
why not make it like wc3..

where you have to build them and as they build their health goes up .. and once it gets to 100% it starts to fire.. that way they could be killed when they are only at like 4 % with ease.

great idea.. but nooo

good idea

Chimera

03-03-04, 08:03

Anyone ever play Natural Selection? its a fusion RTS/FPS...regardless, When you build structures in that, they deploy at half health, non functional, you must then complete building them before they go active. The fix is simple You have to have a tool, say repair tool, the remote one, or something like it, when someone throws down the turret you go over and shoot the turret with the repair tool, or make a new tool for all I care. Based on whatever skill they bind this tool to (CST or Rep) is how many points you add, untill the structure is fully built...IE if i have 50 in the skill, then i build twice as fast as someone with 25 in the skill. This solves the cloaking (you cannot pull out an item while cloaked), and solves this instant deploy thing. Makes droping during a fight possible, but only if your extremely well covered, as both you, and the turret, are vulnerable during the 'setup' time. you can even build it part way, then run away and come back to it, assuming it hasnt been destroyed, and they do not activate till 100% setup completion. The only problem left to solve is a suitible setup time.

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 10:58

Originally posted by g0rt
hehe getting a little angry are we? :lol:

No. Just frustrated since you can't see the simple things I'm telling you.

all i know is, my clan has no problem overcoming turrets, so why should any other clans?

turret dropping midfight is only a problem for noobies, im sorry to say

How many times more do I have to tell you it's not about having problems with them? We have dealt with them all the time and we have won 90% of the fights that had been somewhat equal when it comes to numbers.

And even if it wouldn't be a problem why shouldn't we make it work better than it is atm?

as for the kiddie comment, im 22 but man i wish i was still a kiddie :( being able to relive the past 10 years of my life would be GREAT....

Well. Still younger than me but yeah, I agree on this one also.

phunqe

03-03-04, 11:08

Well I posted the idea about the delay before they go operational, but since everyone is always busy bitching at the other no one takes notice on what matters anyway...

Better just leave the fucking thread alone.

Archeus

03-03-04, 11:12

Mentioned already but just expanding.

1. Fixed Skill minimum to place turrets (anyone can drop). Say 50CST lowest baseline.

2. Time to activate the turret is based on that skill and requires a tool and attention to the turret.

3. While turrets being built it can be shot at but has more health then it would when active but damage is taken off the finished turret (means it can be constructed but will be weak if in combat).

Elric

03-03-04, 11:43

Originally posted by Archeus
Mentioned already but just expanding.

1. Fixed Skill minimum to place turrets (anyone can drop). Say 50CST lowest baseline.

2. Time to activate the turret is based on that skill and requires a tool and attention to the turret.

3. While turrets being built it can be shot at but has more health then it would when active but damage is taken off the finished turret (means it can be constructed but will be weak if in combat).

Team Fortess Classic style you mean ;)

deac

03-03-04, 13:41

Originally posted by Archeus
Mentioned already but just expanding.

1. Fixed Skill minimum to place turrets (anyone can drop). Say 50CST lowest baseline.

ARGH loming my tanks int into cst then!""!

and ppus be rdy for : GIVE ME CST3 !!!!

rhPhMe

03-03-04, 17:20

lmfao.....is ghandi and others still crying about turrets....

Its fine ghandi....dont use turrets.....fine by me......doesnt mean we wont :)

you can cry all you want

Devils Grace

03-03-04, 17:22

Originally posted by rhPhMe
lmfao.....is ghandi and others still crying about turrets....

Its fine ghandi....dont use turrets.....fine by me......doesnt mean we wont :)

you can cry all you want

jesus dont say that kuz he will cry

DONT:eek:

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 17:23

rhPhMe

03-03-04, 17:27

lol i hope i see ghandi in a fight

**grabs stuns

**grabs gats

:D

(btw devil i got stuff on saturn if u wanna trade stuff from pluto)

g0rt

03-03-04, 20:09

How many times more do I have to tell you it's not about having problems with them? We have dealt with them all the time and we have won 90% of the fights that had been somewhat equal when it comes to numbers.

If they aren't a problem, then I don't see why this is a discussion. We both agree that they are NOT a problem, and they are easy to overcome...

Not a problem = no need to fix anything.

Am I right?

Zanathos

03-03-04, 20:15

Hey, its a good money sink :D

•Super|\|ova•

03-03-04, 20:16

Originally posted by g0rt
If they aren't a problem, then I don't see why this is a discussion. We both agree that they are NOT a problem, and they are easy to overcome...

Not a problem = no need to fix anything.

Am I right?

But a way to make the OP wars better.

ghandisfury

04-03-04, 02:40

Originally posted by Devils Grace
agreed

i was just trying to understand how can he start a thread by saying he always loose to the same ppl that uses the same lame exploitable (?)(wichever he ment by that) and then a few pages after he says that he never loose

[edited for violation of the forum rules]

My very first post didn't say "I always lose", it said that the same people in the same clans "ALWAYS" drop turrets. If you think that means me losing....again you need a comprehention course. Now in my following posts, I said that I lose and win.....but I do it with style, and with other people's feelings in mind. When people drop turrets midfight, or use other lame tactics (I won't bother mentioning them) it makes in not fun wether we win or lose. So when the same boring people from the same boring clans drop the same boring turrets in the middle of the same boring OP fight........................sounds fun doesn't it? I prefer to win my fights and lose my fights with the skill of my clan, and my own personal skill, and while doing this the opposing clan (win or lose) is hopefully having fun as well.

I've seen a few people post in this thread about "this is the same guy that posted about parashock, or noob buffs, or [insert random shit that makes the game less fun here].....Well guess what people, I'm here to stay. I will continue to post about things that make the gameno fun.

Now I'm rambling. This thread has run it's course. The question has been answered (thank you again Thontos). Mods please close this thread.

ghandisfury

04-03-04, 02:42

Estabin

04-03-04, 02:43

g0rt

04-03-04, 03:26

Devils Grace

04-03-04, 03:47

Originally posted by ghandisfury
[edited for consistency]

My very first post didn't say "I always lose", it said that the same people in the same clans "ALWAYS" drop turrets. If you think that means me losing....again you need a comprehention course. Now in my following posts, I said that I lose and win.....but I do it with style, and with other people's feelings in mind. When people drop turrets midfight, or use other lame tactics (I won't bother mentioning them) it makes in not fun wether we win or lose. So when the same boring people from the same boring clans drop the same boring turrets in the middle of the same boring OP fight........................sounds fun doesn't it? I prefer to win my fights and lose my fights with the skill of my clan, and my own personal skill, and while doing this the opposing clan (win or lose) is hopefully having fun as well.

I've seen a few people post in this thread about "this is the same guy that posted about parashock, or noob buffs, or [insert random shit that makes the game less fun here].....Well guess what people, I'm here to stay. I will continue to post about things that make the gameno fun.

Now I'm rambling. This thread has run it's course. The question has been answered (thank you again Thontos). Mods please close this thread.

1st things 1st

like i said before IF i writte my native language as bad you writte yours, i will shot my left nut.....kuz reallyyyy even i see that u give so much typos that hurts my education (how small she might be )

urself ( you SIR) aint sure what the hell u talking about kuz cleary either u dont remenber (stop eating cheese) or u cant delete (up's)
kuz u dont have a fucking clue what u said in the begining in the midle and at the end...
u have lost urself in my flames, on wich a non spoken english person (or kid ) fucked u up real good and contradict (thats so u can point another typo ) every fucking reason u may thinked at the begining u had.... kuz u didnt.
So to close this thread and before i go to bed, im goin to let u think on the fact that u are pathetic, dumb, and suporter of ur own dilusions (insert another typo coment here ).... kuz honest the idea i take from what u say is that u trully belive in the tooth fairy (o_O ).
to point out that ur a selfish bastard, i just need to say that in all ur posts is " me myself I my clan my cat and my right nut that got stucked in the keyboard when i was pushed againt a wall by a stun and i canot live anymore kuz YOU (the rest) are ruining my FUN.... SO therefore i do not give a shit if ur having fun or not. IM NOT and thats FINAL "

SELFISH

so to me ur not thinking in the good of the comunity, ur thinking on urself and ur clan (tho i bet some think "wtf is he saying, just say yes so he shut up") and u do not give a flying fuck to what others think... SO in that way

I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK IF UR HAVING FUN OR NOT

but i say ur lucky not to play on saturn, kuz i would use every lame tactic to fuck u up (with a smile of course)

to finish this up, i would like to say that this change is goin to be good tho i do not agree on the CST requirement, BUT for me (saturn the mule server= where ppl pay one acount and have 4 chars) is not goin to be any problem, kuz babys TURRENTS WILL CONTINUE TO POP UP FROM A STEALTHER CST SPY

live long and prosper