View Full Version : Taking advantage of the interface != tactics
Ok, so I'm new to being a PPU after being an APU for 7 months, so I know I'm not that good... but something that seriously is bugging me is this interface "exploit" BS on the PPUs.
Everyone knows if you can stack enough poison on a PPU, they can't see thier buffs/prims and you have a slight advantage there. Even as an APU I'd try to do that now and then to get a few shots in on the 'invincible' PPU. But the fact is, with a HAP, Holy Antidote, Cath, or even drugs, this can be countered, so this attack, while it can be devastating, can be countered.
The Devs.... they are high powered, that's undeniable. But they have their range limits so I'm not so concerned about their power. They kill your FPS. That kinda sucks, but again, that's dealable. But when two Dev tanks stack your screen so that your prims/buffs/heal are pushed off, just like the old poison "trick", that's BS. If it were poison and I didn't have cath/drugs/hap/etc on me and I died, fine, my bad for not packing the right gear. But presently, there is NOTHING TO COMBAT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE CAN FUCK MY INTERFACE UP.
KK, three options:
- Make your prims/buffs/heals stay at the BOTTOM so people can't interface 'exploit'.
- Make some sort of QUICK counter to the stacks like there is for drugs.
- Invent a weapon or spell that removes Tanks ability to see how much ammo they have in their gun or how many HP they have so they can enjoy the cheap ass ramming of removing vital parts of their gameplay interface with a weapon.
PPUs aren't being "overpowered" by the Dev right now, they just have no fucking clue if shelter or heal is still on us because the entire right side of the screen is stupid dev stacks. Couple that to an APU debuff and you might as well turn your monitor off because the information the interface is giving you means fuck all.
Old topic, I know, and I'm sorry. But it's a topic that needs to be beaten and re-beaten until KK fixes it. Removing parts of a players interface is NOT a tactic, it's a cheap attack that's used when all else fails like TL3 healing and shit sheltering... but y'know, ffs, KK can't even code higher TL heals and sheilds overriding lower TL heals and sheilds, why am I even complaining about this.
someone made this thread a while ago, I can understand youre grief, but you explained it best, you are new, a good PPU knows when hes not buffed, a good PPU wouldnt have a stack of poison on him long enough to care about stacks blocking buffs, secondly, shelter doesnt affect poison anyways, so chances are if you really had that many stacks on u, youd be dead....dont know much PPUs who have good specced PSR.......
just try to keep that cath sanc up/holy antidote works wonders.....
Im an old school PPU so I know what shit you are putting up with, but really, it is quite trivial.........
Poison isn't my problem... I can deal with that. It's the Devourer stacks that don't seemed to be removed with a HAP or self cast Antidote.... or maybe mine are broken, who knows.
Originally posted by -FN-
Poison isn't my problem... I can deal with that. It's the Devourer stacks that don't seemed to be removed with a HAP or self cast Antidote.... or maybe mine are broken, who knows.
that I couldnt say, as Ive never played PPU(since dev) or been shot with dev yet.....but even still, those stacks dont really last that long do they? but hey, its not like I dont feel youre pain, Im just kinda trying to make it a lil easier on you for when you realize its never gonna change :p
The issue isn't how long stacks last.
When a new effect becomes active on a runner, such as drugs, a heal or poison/fire, a new line is created under existing status displays. Common knowledge.
What's ALSO common knowledge is that if your current long lasting effects ever go off the top of the screen, they never reappear, it's like there's a 12 number array and each effect is a different number, once you get more then 12 effects on you, well it's no longer displayable and can't be referenced again. So by moving things like shelter/hazard/heal off the screen unless there is a constant effect [such as the heal bubbles] you cannot tell what effects are still on you and which are just not being displayed.
An even BETTER way of dealing with this would be to limit the number of stacks you can have on someone, such as not more then 8 poison stacks or 8 fire stacks, they could have their own little area of the screen, perhaps where the pulse display is, and no longer interfere with other effects. That way pointers never go out of bounds, there's a limit to stacking that needs to be kept track of and everyone keeps their icons.
Or if that's to 'carebear' you could just make a 5 slot holding space for heal, shelter, deflector, carth, whatever, and the stacks would begin appearing above this stack, sure they could be pushed off the screen and no longer displayed, but at least they are short acting and can be dealt with.
What would be nice is one stack appears always but has something like "x5" so you know how many stacks you have on you easy.
Show positive stacks on the left side of the screen and negative stacks on the right side of the screen.
Or make the stacks stack like Archeus said...
leGit v. 2
02-03-04, 12:42
I AGREE NERF THE DEV.. im a tank and i really think the dev should be nerfed.. but i think it will soon.. its just like the liberator when it was overpowered.. and it will all be a forgotten problem soon.. just worry about melee next.. im scurred
yes, make stacks stack.
and while you are at it, fix the alt-tab buff bug.
Is there any need for more than 1 poison icon to appear? You are being poisoned - that is about all you need to know.
leGit v. 2
02-03-04, 13:44
sexy rince
I agree completely, Dev causing lag and poison hiding buffs is not
tactics, its an exploit.
Shadow Dancer
02-03-04, 13:50
I didn't know what people meant about dev causing lag, till I reinstalled.
Usually I turn down my MISC TEXTURE DETAIL so that beam spells won't lag the hell out of me. Anyways, I reinstalled yesterday and forgot to turn it down. When a dev hit me, omg. It was like the matrix, slow motion. lol
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I didn't know what people meant about dev causing lag, till I reinstalled.
Usually I turn down my MISC TEXTURE DETAIL so that beam spells won't lag the hell out of me. Anyways, I reinstalled yesterday and forgot to turn it down. When a dev hit me, omg. It was like the matrix, slow motion. lol
misc texture detail helps you say? Ill get right on that..
I don't think it's exploiting any more than say, playing an uber hybrid. People use these 'tactics' not specifically because of their effects, but because they are effective. You can't suddenly say two tanks shooting PPUs with Devs is exploiting, can you? Or should every tank put their Dev away and only ever use CS, just like all those uber hybrids lommed to pure of their own free will and PPUs never used holy para halo when it was bugged. :rolleyes:
This is only one example of 'exploiting' the interface. How is monks using 3rd person any different? Holy Para affects my interface - my mouse sensitivity is decreased. With misc texture detail set to max on my other comp holy para makes my comp stutter - so why is Dev suddenly a problem?
I'm not saying I don't think it's a problem, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed. But I do think it's naive to say it's only a problem for PPUs, or that Dev is suddenly exploiting somehow. The grounds to fix this are that it's a headache for everyone and that it's something that shouldn't happen full stop, not because it makes life tough for PPUs.
I agree on all points sci, not that I see the point of going into
rhetotics about exactly how its a problem but anyway, my
sentiments exatly.
Shadow Dancer
02-03-04, 14:10
Btw Wade, if you put down misc texture detail, you hafta restart neocron for it to take effect.
Yeah I did, boy everything looks fugly.. Im not playing like this, fix
flamers KK.
Shadow Dancer
02-03-04, 14:14
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah I did, boy everything looks fugly.. Im not playing like this, fix
flamers KK.
Yea I know. I wish I was able to keep misc texture detail to the max, then everything looks so pretty.
:(
This is one reason I love consoles.
The only things I don't have at max are vegetation detail (turned off) and 'max dinamic lights, which I have at medium level. Dunno why I have it in the middle, might be for something I noticed time ago or whatever.
:p
Originally posted by Ehyuko
What's ALSO common knowledge is that if your current long lasting effects ever go off the top of the screen, they never reappear
Mine re-appear...
Getting the dev por stacks off isn't hard, they only last about half a second, just run around a bit. If you're trying to res and get that many stacks on you chances are the battles over anyway and you'd be better off heading to the nearest genrep :D
My only issue with the dev is the fact a dev tank+ppu is a ridiculously overpowered combination. But as I've mentioned in previous threads (repeatedly, at length, with varying degrees of irritation at KK) I think the PPU is just overpowered generally. Nerf me KK, dagnammit, so I can have some decent op wars.
Originally posted by Ehyuko
When a new effect becomes active on a runner, such as drugs, a heal or poison/fire, a new line is created under existing status displays. Common knowledge.It's based on the time left on a buff. If a shelter has less than 10 seconds left on it and you cast a heal, the heal will actually show up on top of the shelter.
But yeah, I wish that it would be like Archeus said and just have a "x5" or something. Maybe make that for each type and strength. It would be nice to see that for things like fire stacks, too.
--Stryfe
i agree a x 5 for example would be nice :)
and also show the names of drugs like buffs / fire when you go with the cursor over it !
its damn annoying when you dont know which of the 3 drugs you took is running out :)
.cy
I dunno about the rest of you, but the way my stacks work is the ones with the most time left are at the top, the ones that will be the first to die out goto the bottom. The only way a Buff would be pushed off the top of the screen is if all the ones below it will run out before it.
Try it, cast a buff on yourself then wait till it starts wearing off, then cast a different buff.. the first buff you cast should be under the second one you cast.
If anything maybe people are just missing the buffs dropping back down due to the length of time they take ot wear out vs the length of time most damage stacks last. A Dev stack only lasts about 5 seconds vs a Support buff which lasts in the minutes range. Due ot the drop off rate of Dev stacks, you may just be missing your support buff go by. which should basically be depending on how many stacks you have at most 5 seconds of screen time.. less when it comes to it mixing with a high number of fast moving stacks. ie.. it may only shown on screen for 1-2 seconds..
Lupus your right to a point i think FN is pointing to things like if ur being dev'd = full screen of pois then u get antibuffed then its like do i or do i not have s and d up i dunno cus i can't seeeeeeee.
But also to FN without the HAB u should be okay when u've been playing a ppu a bit longer ask any good ppu that has been playing a long time and they can practically time recasting heal/anti pois/s/d within .2 of a second of them dropping. Its all about practice and adapting
SigmaDraconis
02-03-04, 18:41
well wether i be based on time left, or the order in which they are "cast" its backasswards, buffs either need a seperate area for display ( like where the useless pulse meter is ) or make them automatically stay at the bottom of your screen.
I cant say that i agree with these comments about exploiting..using poison was never really meant just to knock your buffs off the top of your screen , it was because in the past most monks had very little defense against it because of lack of sanctums/drugs and because no shield protects against it. The same with dev, it may be an added side effect but lag nor stacks is the main reason for using a dev, its just the damage.
ghandisfury
02-03-04, 18:49
Originally posted by Lupus
I dunno about the rest of you, but the way my stacks work is the ones with the most time left are at the top, the ones that will be the first to die out goto the bottom. The only way a Buff would be pushed off the top of the screen is if all the ones below it will run out before it.
Try it, cast a buff on yourself then wait till it starts wearing off, then cast a different buff.. the first buff you cast should be under the second one you cast.
If anything maybe people are just missing the buffs dropping back down due to the length of time they take ot wear out vs the length of time most damage stacks last. A Dev stack only lasts about 5 seconds vs a Support buff which lasts in the minutes range. Due ot the drop off rate of Dev stacks, you may just be missing your support buff go by. which should basically be depending on how many stacks you have at most 5 seconds of screen time.. less when it comes to it mixing with a high number of fast moving stacks. ie.. it may only shown on screen for 1-2 seconds..
That's exactly correct Lupas. The buffs that are first to drop are furthest to the bottom of the screen. So, If I cast shelter/deflector/heal, then I have a tank hit me with a DEV all of the stacks will be at the bottom because S/D lasts for 2 minutes, making them push up to the top of the screen. Heal at some point (if you are watching closesly) will move to the bottom, but only briefly because the DEV stacks are so quick at dropping and stacking back in. Now, if I do the same thing shelter/deflector/heal and have a tank hit me with the DEV, then I have an APU debuff me I never see what that my buffs have dropped because they were pushed to the top of the screen.
The problem is that a PPU cannot use his weapons propperly because he is unable to monotor himself propperly. Our buffs are the only weapons we have, please let us (as you do all other classes) use them to there full potential.
The point with the anti-buffs I can understand. However besides the anti-buff issue, the Buffs being pushed to the top of the screen seem to be nothing more then just people missing it as it goes by, atleast to me anyway.
Not that I'm against or for what some of you are asking for in this thread. I'm just trying to clarify a few things.
Anti-buffs is the whole issue.
Lupus imagine this then ur a good ppu fully capped jsut surviving the para spam from the 4 ppu's ur last left alive getting dev'd and u get hit by a spirit modded SH. How the hell then do u know u've been antibuffed hell at least with HAB u can try and time the recast but with this ur fucked there must be a way to solve this. How about stackable dmg PoisX16 and so on
I got a counter when a dev hits you pop a holy heal and move your ass outta his way. Bolt thru a few people that should get them off yea.
/set add 4 ppu's casting para on u and 2 apu's antibuffing u
SigmaDraconis
02-03-04, 19:18
/set add TL3 heal and basic deflector/shelter sanctums :lol:
Lupis..we dont miss the buffs scrolling up past our veiw.. hell i can watch them rise all the way out of site half the time LOL, its the fact that our buffs should NOT scroll upwards out of view, they should remain at the bottom. Regardless of being debuffed or simply running out PPU's have no way of telling when buffs run out. damn its a simple problem to fix, just reverse the order of which effects stack..
ahhhh but if u reverse the order and get dev'd ur heal ticks off the screen when its running out so not a quick fix
ghandisfury
02-03-04, 19:26
Originally posted by KimmyG
I got a counter when a dev hits you pop a holy heal and move your ass outta his way. Bolt thru a few people that should get them off yea.
AHHH shit....problem fixed!! Thank man, I never thought of that.....o_O
SigmaDraconis
02-03-04, 19:27
but dev stacks only last about .5- 1 second so noticing your heal is no longer at the bottom just means to count a half second and recast again, shouldnt be much of a problem for us cannings seeing as a good PPU does most of it by timing anyway :P
Originally posted by Candaman
/set add 4 ppu's casting para on u and 2 apu's antibuffing u
What, you're supposed to live through this?
yeah but with dev as stacks get higher up the board the lower ones don't tick for a sec or two meaning it can take forever to get rid of that damn poison
WUWU 800 psts
1st of all its not an expliot or a tacic its called I am a tank and I am uses the best weapon there is right now. This community is 90% mock anything that happens is an expliot, all I hear is I been explioted this is an expliot stop the expliots.
If 2 devs tanks are on you an you get tagged with an antibuff you should be dead no question. Best deffence against the dev is staying away from it. As I said pop a heal right away and bust into a pack of boys and try to shake of the 2 dev users. (But maybe thats an expliot cause in a pack of boys it would be hard to target you EXPLIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
From pluto no doubt turrents are ecpliots and now the dev is an expliot.
Good thinking sigma, reverse order, problem solved.
SigmaDraconis
02-03-04, 21:00
for some reason i sense sarcasm rade..lol
well after a point your right cannings, but it would be a half assed solution, so im sure KK would jump all over it lol
the best solution would still be replacing the pulse meter. with a special area for buffs :P but thats as likly to happen as KK coming up with some solution to noob buffing lol
"What, you're supposed to live through this?"
dying like this through lack of skill is one thing...dying like this because the game allows you no real way to use your skill is another.
Originally posted by KimmyG
1st of all its not an expliot or a tacic its called I am a tank and I am uses the best weapon there is right now. This community is 90% mock anything that happens is an expliot, all I hear is I been explioted this is an expliot stop the expliots.
If 2 devs tanks are on you an you get tagged with an antibuff you should be dead no question. Best deffence against the dev is staying away from it. As I said pop a heal right away and bust into a pack of boys and try to shake of the 2 dev users. (But maybe thats an expliot cause in a pack of boys it would be hard to target you EXPLIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
From pluto no doubt turrents are ecpliots and now the dev is an expliot. Having the buff stay at the bottom wouldnt stop the two tanks from winning. So whats the problem exactly?
I cant fathom why anyone would be against having your buffs stay at the bottom. So what? Does that make your attacks do less damage? No.
No Im serious.
Ok why does everything I say come out really sarcastic? I really
agree lol :D
Psyco Groupie
02-03-04, 21:08
Originally posted by Candaman
/set add 4 ppu's casting para on u and 2 apu's antibuffing u
that wouldn't be certain death as long as you have cath you'll live thru it ...
*edit reversing the order would make heal move still ... self cast should stay down and anything else should move
SigmaDraconis
02-03-04, 21:12
LOL cath dont do shit with 4 para spamming PPU's its back on half second after the sanctum gets rid of it....not to mention i highly doubt they would kindly pause as you recast it after its pathetically short duration.
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
*edit reversing the order would make heal move still ... self cast should stay down and anything else should move
Why not just make all positive buffs stay down and all negative buffs go up? That way tanks and spys who always have foreign cast sheilds and buffs on them aren't still facing the same problem even though it was fixed for the PPU.
Psyco Groupie
02-03-04, 22:12
If they are being ppu'd then its the ppus job to know when their buffs are out
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
If they are being ppu'd then its the ppus job to know when their buffs are out
When did it become your job to dictate how teams should work? Perhaps in your clan PPUs determine who needs what buffs and when, but other clans allow their members the freedom to request only the buffs they need and/or want, thus relieving some of the stress on the PPU.
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
that wouldn't be certain death as long as you have cath you'll live thru it ...
*edit reversing the order would make heal move still ... self cast should stay down and anything else should move
doesn't help u if ur not a ppu and u get holy buffs
my point exactly Cannings. Making all positive buffs stay down and all negative buffs go up would fix that.
KramerTheWeird
02-03-04, 22:34
I suggest having two seperate columns for positive and negative buffs.
Lupus and some other's here, I'm seriously doubting if you ever played a combat ppu. A dev stacks 3-6 stacks of poison per "shot" As it's a continuous fire weapon, it will continue to stack as long as you are anywhere within range (which is not necessarily the range of the visible fire). Since each of these stacks is shorter by far then any ppu buff, your buffs will be gone within a second. They will continue to stay off the screen until you get away from the dev tank and have a chance to let the stacks wear off. With shock, it's easy to keep a ppu in range. There have been plenty of times in which I've been under fire long enough for my shelter to run out on its own. Even better is if an enemy anti buffer is around, the only way I'd know my shelter is nolonger active is when my health is suddenly down to 1/4 left and I fall down dead.
I have a suspicion that screen resolution might modify how many stacks are visible on the screen. With a high resolution you could fit more stacks on the screen before your buffs are pushed off. I use a fairly low resolution because my eyes can't handle anything higher, so it doesn't take much for my buffs to be pushed off. I suspect this because of how different people's reaction to this topic is. Some act as if they've never had their buffs pushed off the screen, or if they did it was only for a few seconds. If there is a dev near me, my buffs will be gone. If this is true, I hardly think its fair to say I'll die more often then anyone else just cause I use a low resolution. By low I mean both my computers are at 800x600, which is the lowest my monitors support.
For those that think good ppu's are supposed to memorize times and have a running stopwatch in their head, I'm sorry but you're obsessed. Super ppu's can do that, and that's awesome for them. But they're not the norm, nor should that be expected of ppu's. That's like saying because a genious in math is capable of calculating PI to the Nth degree and can do complex multiplication/divisions all in his head, that's where the bar should be set. We should all be expected to perform on that level. No thank you, I'll be using my calculater : p
This is all besides the point though. What Yoda is expressing is that the interface is killing you, not the player you're fighting against. It has nothing to do with their skill vs your skill or anything about how you setup your character, they are just taking advantage of a flaw in the interface to impair you. People justify exploiting because of yet another flaw in the game, which is how helpess people are in comparison to ppu's. Using a flaw to fight a flaw is a flaw. It's also the most aggrivating thing ever and yet another thing in neocron that lessens my chance of renewing. Have you ever been killed while synching? Did you consider that a good fight? Did you applaud your enemy for killing you while you stood there synching? This is exactly the same thing. Dying to a player is great and part of the game. Dying to a flaw makes you want to quit the game.
Having said that, and though I wish something would be done, it won't happen. Yoda I'm sorry you decided to play as a ppu, but you'll soon find out that we are not given the same treatment as any other class. What would be outrageous for the other classes is reasonable for us. PPU's are so flawed it's ridiculous, yet we're still unbalanced. Since we're unbalanced noone cares about our problems. It won't stop until the class is unplayable, then someone will realize there is a problem with ppu's. If you don't believe me you can look at the last few patches, with how kk is going about "balancing" ppu's, and with the commmunity reaction to it. The forumla is very simple: Increase Stress and Reduce Fun = Everyone Happy Except PPU's (which noone cares about anyway). I may sound bitter and exaggerate some but I'm not the only one. Look at how many people support the antibuffs. Look at how many people support using TL3 Heals. These are mechanism to reduce our fun in the game while actualy doing little to balance us. We will be balanced in the sense that noone will want to play a ppu and the negative influence we had on the game will be gone. That's seriously how people see things, I'm not kidding. Almost everytime a ppu nerf is made someone will post something along the lines of "I love this change!" If I respond saying how this will ruin the game for ppu's, the response is "So? The game would be better without them." The amount of hostility and selfishness is amazing. Anytime I point out really aggrivating things ppu's hafta deal with, someone will respond with "You're a ppu, you don't die much." That is why its ok for us to suffer more sl loss, for us to have the hardest time regaining sl/sympathy, for us to risk way more in pvp, and the list goes on. I've posted the list several times, I usualy stop at 15 issues with ppu's because I could go on forever.
This isn't only in the forums, it's ingame aswell. As a ppu when you try to help people, you will run into those who think your entire purpose is to ruin their fun. If you heal them, they will yell at you to go ruin pvp somewhere else. Even better is, Oh no a ppu came, time to leave. Then everyone on your team gives you cold glances. At the same time though, if you're not available to ressurect or save someone when they need help, then you are a worthless ppu. We're supposed to be like the guy who stands on the sidelines durin a tennis match, then madly runs in to recover balls so the players don't trip, while hoping these same players don't beam you in the head. That's exactly how I feel in the game. My purpose is to help people who don't want my help yet expect it when they need it. Ontop of it, the current situation is somehow my fault. Then as if that wasn't enough, my job is made more stressful by modifcations to my class, while doing nothing to change how important my job is. Stress++ & Fun-- will reach a point when ppu's won't take it anymore and quit or reroll away. Most long term ppu's have already hit that point, the newer ones will eventualy too.
So in short I don't recommend anyone play a ppu monk. That is unless you soley want to pvm in Neocron, we're pretty good at that. Even there you'll face hostility though, not only do you ruin pvp, but you also make hunting unfun by making it so easy and being required to do any high end hunting.
SigmaDraconis
03-03-04, 00:18
a full burst from dev is 4 stacks car... and being an experienced PPU yourself i can't help but agree with you on most points.. but there are 2 areas where i can't, firstly the few of you who want to say that dev users are exploiting a flaw in the game need to STOP right now...old flamers ( before the dev came out yet after the introduction og the NCPD ) were used in such a fashion to fill your screen with stacks yes, theres no other reason to use them as they would only possibly damage the crappiest of PPU's, the DEV however is used almost entirely because of its sheer power, and even if stacks were completely invisible people woudl still use it ! and secondly tho you're entirly right about PPUing being a thankless job, and it is partially relevent to this thread i think alot of it coulda been left out :P
Originally posted by Rade
I agree completely, Dev causing lag and poison hiding buffs is not
tactics, its an exploit.
dude rade wtf are you saying...
Do you mean to tell me that by using a devourer ( a weapon in which KK put into the game, and hasn't publicly announced as an exploit [unlike the copbot rifle which was considered an 'exploit' weapon] ) is an exploit?
Just because you have a slow system that cannot support the game dosen't mean it's an exploit, nor does the fact that it hides buffs. Just because KK can't figure out some better system to show buffs while poisoned dosen't mean it's an exploit to use it Devourers.
Additionally, I get 50+ frames per second while using my devourer and being shot by others with devourers. Maybe you wouldn't get less than 10 frames per second if you upgraded.
I wonder who will be whining next patch when HC is nerfed and melee is boosted. Oh wait, I forgot you have two melee tanks.
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
a full burst from dev is 4 stacks car... and being an experienced PPU yourself i can't help but agree with you on most points.. but there are 2 areas where i can't, firstly the few of you who want to say that dev users are exploiting a flaw in the game need to STOP right now...old flamers ( before the dev came out yet after the introduction og the NCPD ) were used in such a fashion to fill your screen with stacks yes, theres no other reason to use them as they would only possibly damage the crappiest of PPU's, the DEV however is used almost entirely because of its sheer power, and even if stacks were completely invisible people woudl still use it ! and secondly tho you're entirly right about PPUing being a thankless job, and it is partially relevent to this thread i think alot of it coulda been left out :P
Ah my mistake, I dont ususaly get time to count exactly how many stacks, since their is always more then enough to fill my screen.
I disagree with the dev though. Against non ppu's the dev might be just as strong wether it masks buffs or not. Against a ppu the difference is a lot. As far as I'm concerned all of the dev's power is that it can mask buffs. If you spec poison properly, and especialy if you have anti poison sanctum going then no poison can ever bother you. You're right a few tanks used flamers to do this. I remember Smokey using a Flamer/CS combo which made him the first Tank to actualy kill me. We're not saying only the dev does this, it's just what almost every tank uses now. It's the same as every other exploit. At first only a few use it and even though it's annoying, it doesn't happen that often. Soon though everyone and their mother does it.
Oh ya and about the comparison to parashock, that won't work. Part of parashocking is actualy slowing down your ability to aim/move the cursor. That's not a graphics issue, thats what the spell does. The first parashock nerf I can remmeber nixed most of parashock's ability to do anything other then slow down movement. A Tank I tested it with was extatic because even though he moved slower, he could actualy aim decently and shoot me now. I believe it's slowly crept back up in strength since then, I can sometimes really feel a ppu shock during combat. You can only attribute so much to fps and keeping calm under pressure. There is most definitly some slowdown from being parashocked. The dev though was not designed to have anything to do with your buffs.
SigmaDraconis
03-03-04, 00:46
but its NOT being used as an exploit...what you are calling an exploit is simply KK's lack of common sense when implimenting a minor feature in the game, NOT people taking advantage of that specific feature of the gun! So, by neither practice nro even definition is using a DEV against a PPU an "exploit" ..........fucked up, but not an exploit ^^
and I only know its 4 because i did some testing, Dev is actually pretty close to being a fire/poison version of CS... which is VERY unbalanced considering devs ease of use and 7 TL difference
Yes, Lupus, you're right, and I know that. And I'm not a *horrible* PPU :( Geez... I can survive half a dozen ppl wailing on me for 10 mins, that doesn't bother me.
The specific death that irritated me enough to bring me here to the forums was two dev tanks stacking crap on me like a bitch, then I saw the yellow Anti-Shelter lines behind me... but hell if I knew when I was losing shelter. The APU could've been just starting, finishing, or in the middle. Like I said, I played an APU for 7 months and I know the timing on AS and HAB, but it makes absolutely no difference what I know or how "well I play my character". Fact is, part of my rpos was pushed out of my view by an attack and then that was taken advantage of.
I was being sarcastic when I said this before obviously, but I think it's a valid point: What if there were an attack that put a big text box over your HP, Stamina, and PSI Pool. What if there were an attack that covered up your Quickbelt so you couldn't see what was in each slot? How is that some sort of viable tactic against other runners? This specific instance involves the Devourer which, to most people is a double whammy because not only does it 'exploit' the rpos, it kills many people's FPS. I don't have this problem but I've seen it on other PCs and ouch.
I personally am all for hte positive buffs/psi effects staying where they are and the bad ones going on the left above the chat window. Let 'em stack away, I don't care. But at least let me see my own buffs.
And please let buffs/prims remove lower TL buffs/prims of the same type and put their own in place :) kthxbye
Oh yeah, and please don't take the word 'exploit' like I'm saying OMG TEH CHEETARS, I don't mean it like that. That's why I've been putting it in quotes. I can't think of a better word tho. It's taking advantage of a loophole in the game rpos... which, while I'm not duping keys or anything :lol: still seems 'exploit'-ish to me.
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