View Full Version : APU monks in op wars...have they been nerfed too much?
i have a 56/56 ** apu monk.
now, back in the old days, if you were a ** rank, you were actually pretty good and pretty useful due to quite a few factors:
1: good dmg dealt out from spells like holy lightning and fire apoc
2: good range on these spells too
this was to balance the fact that monks have very little health/resists/CON.
now i find that:
1: spell range has been severely nerfed - we might aswell be a melee monk for all the use the range now is in op wars.
2: all other other main op war weapons have been overpowered to the fact that apu monks will not survive 1 v 1 without a ppu.
indeed, this also applys to hunting too.
try it yourself - go hunt with a capped apu, and watch as they die vs any lvl 100+ mobs in about 2 hits.
in op wars, see how they loose instantly on their own vs:
melee tank (average time for a DG kill is about 1, possibly 2 if your lucky hits)
hc tank (average time for a devourer kill is 2 hits)
rifle pe (kill goodbye to yourself in under 4 hits from a PE)
pistol pe (stealth hit stealth - youre dead in under 5 seconds)
rifle spy (silent hunter needs only one hit on a capped apu monk to kill them)
so...i put it to YOU to answer me KK.
why are apu monks useful at all? esp. if you ALWAYS need a PPU to survive not just op wars, but mob hunting too?
tanks: hard as nails = useful
spies: tradeskillers + rifle/stealth use = useful
pe's: balance of tank hardness+spy skills = usefull
ppu monk = useful
apu monk = dead = ?
i think youre only course of action would be to give us apu's the range back and some of the power back we once used to behold.
and "wheres the proof" you say? just take a look in your server log stats...and see how many people have lomed to ppu in the last few months. theres your proof.
u must be doing something wrong i have solo hunted grims wb's everything on my apu get the rite armour the rite resists and a lot of hlt packs and u can kill anything with the rite amount of cover.
Dribble Joy
29-02-04, 19:42
The current patch on retail, for want of a better phrase, is fucked.
I wouldn't go on what you see at the moment as to how things will continue to be.
Originally posted by Candaman
u must be doing something wrong i have solo hunted grims wb's everything on my apu get the rite armour the rite resists and a lot of hlt packs and u can kill anything with the rite amount of cover.
and by cover, you mean firing over hills where you cant be hit.
God knows its the only way I've been able to level my fucking apu monk.
SHIT range, SHIT damage, insanely high reqs and you need a fucking PPU stuck up your ass if you even THINK of pvping a /30 spy as a capped apu.
Fuck you KK, you took my favourite class and made it impossible to play without having a ppu bitch 24/7.
I recently rolled an APU since I LOM'd my last one to PPU quite a few months ago.
APU's are teh sux now..The range is really bad. You are asking the class with the least defence to get well within shooting range of everything but luncher cyclopses :rolleyes:
I can almost cap my HL now (630% ish) and the damage is pants. My chaos queen avalanche does better.
Havn't tried a FA yet, as I have still to get mine built, and I hope it's better, as if it isn't I will just go back to being a PE or Tank for op fights, as they seems to be able to deal better damage and are not as reliant on a strap on PPU to stay alive.
Unless KK do something, it will not be long before people realise what I have, and you won't see any APU's at op fights anymore.
APU Damage will be fixed next patch
~Tratos
Psyco Groupie
29-02-04, 20:25
Originally posted by Tratos
APU Damage will be fixed next patch
~Tratos
Exactly, how exactly did you miss the recent dmg changes ?
funkeymonkey
29-02-04, 20:30
Originally posted by Timster
melee tank (average time for a DG kill is about 1, possibly 2 if your lucky hits)
hc tank (average time for a devourer kill is 2 hits)
rifle pe (kill goodbye to yourself in under 4 hits from a PE)
pistol pe (stealth hit stealth - youre dead in under 5 seconds)
rifle spy (silent hunter needs only one hit on a capped apu monk to kill them)
I thought it was inpossible to kill any runner with 1 hit of weapon, its the old lower hp = taking low dmg thing thats why when people are nearly dead they take less dmg. I have never been killed by any runner in one shot (unless its a dot weapon and your character is pretty low).
You are right though about apu's being severly nerfed, there was a need for a slight nerf on hl but nothing on this scale. kk allways seem to go over the top.
Originally posted by Celt
and by cover, you mean firing over hills where you cant be hit.
God knows its the only way I've been able to level my fucking apu monk.
When i have been lvling my apu by myself against things like fire mobs i have allways needed cover anyway :(, espically against grimies. Its was the price u paid for high dmg and decent range, both of which has been taken off us. Glad to see were atleast getting our dmg back though :)
Shadow Dancer
29-02-04, 20:37
ffs
I'm so tired of the insane exaggerations that so many posters seem to love.
Originally posted by Timster
1: spell range has been severely nerfed - we might aswell be a melee monk for all the use the range now is in op wars.
140m is melee range? That's pretty good for pvp.
Originally posted by Timster
2: all other other main op war weapons have been overpowered to the fact that apu monks will not survive 1 v 1 without a ppu.
An apu can still survive some 1v1s without a ppu.
Originally posted by Timster
melee tank (average time for a DG kill is about 1, possibly 2 if your lucky hits)
hc tank (average time for a devourer kill is 2 hits)
rifle pe (kill goodbye to yourself in under 4 hits from a PE)
pistol pe (stealth hit stealth - youre dead in under 5 seconds)
rifle spy (silent hunter needs only one hit on a capped apu monk to kill them)
O_o
There's no way that it only takes 1-2 DG hits to kill my apu. That's a gross exaggeration. No offense, but if you want people to take your post seriously you can't make outrageous statements like this.
devourer is overpowered, and will most likely be balanced next patch.
Rifle pes, well it can take a good amount of hits for them to kill an apu if the apu has a decent setup. And the apu can kill them just as easily.
Rifle spy? lol. If you're being hit by an SH, then the spy is at a far ass distance. That's not exactly a valid comparison. IMO in close combat, APU>Spy. Unless the spy is a drug whore. :rolleyes:
And it takes a MINIMUM of 3 shots to kill someone with a single shot weapon.
Originally posted by Timster
and "wheres the proof" you say? just take a look in your server log stats...and see how many people have lomed to ppu in the last few months. theres your proof.
O_o
Anyways, I do feel that KK might be trying to make the apu a team only char. In other words, a PPU strap-on. Since KK's idea of "team"play is having lots of ppus. :rolleyes: If apus ever become a char that has to be with a ppu all the time, i'll just delete mine.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
140m is melee range? That's pretty good for pvp.
140m sucks, it means you get 1(or 2 if you are lucky) shots off before a HC or MC tank is in range.
An apu can still survive some 1v1s without a ppu.
Not versus HC tank.
Not versus MC tank.
Not versus rifle PE.
Not versus pistol PE.
Yes versus another APU.
Not versus a rifle spy.(stealth if low health, then heal)
Not versus a pistol spy.(stealth if low health, then heal)
Shadow Dancer
29-02-04, 20:47
Originally posted by Celt
Not versus HC tank.
Not versus MC tank.
Not versus rifle PE.
Not versus pistol PE.
Yes versus another APU.
Not versus a rifle spy.(stealth if low health, then heal)
Not versus a pistol spy.(stealth if low health, then heal)
Um, i've beaten tons of melee and HC tanks. Ok Ok I haven't beaten tons of melee tanks, their aren't tons to beat. :p
And i've beaten countless pes.
The only people I have a seriously hard time killing are lame ass stealth whores and devourer tanks who seem to SPIT on me with their flamer and do 200 damage. :rolleyes:
Ignoring the fact KK have nerfed APU's and they may make them better next patch, they may make them worse...depends if they figure out what the hell they are doing.....(and they obviously havn't yet seeing as there is no hot fix)
I have been trying to work out what role an APU currently fills within the game.
Rare Hunting? Nope, thats the PE
Op fight damage dealer? Nope, that's the tank
Has gadgets n stuff? Nope, that's the Spy
Can do tradeskills? Yes, but the Spy is better
Collect MC5 parts? Thats the tank and PPU. Can be done with an APU only if you are desperate and there is no tank.
Is the fastest way to level a PPU..YES! Eureka! KK only made APU's so they could LOM to PPU.
Glad I will now sleep safe in the knowledge that the APU has one dedicated role they are very good at :lol:
Oh and at the people saying "APU Damage will be fixed next patch "
[list=a]
Thanatos said "as far as I know HL nerf was unintended and will be fixed next patch" AFAIK, not for sure!
Thanatos said nothing about FA being upped, toxic beam being upped, or any OTHER apu spell's damage being increased.
[/list=a]
devourer is overpowered, and will most likely be balanced next patch.
You say that to a tank who honestly has a decent one. Sure it kills loads of people quickly, but it aint overpowered, its just because it gives poisen, its fast, and you guys have shit resist's. Honestly I dont think its that much overpowered
You guys must have shitty APU's. I agree with Shad on this one. They have been nerfed, but i have still seen a few good APU's kicking ass in 1v1 fights. and in an op war where everyone has ppu buffs apus fair much better then you say they do.
Heres a hint DONT STAND STILL WHILE SHOOTING. Yea i think that will help your whole 1-2 shots till a tank runs up to you deal. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Zeph0n
Heres a hint DONT STAND STILL WHILE SHOOTING. Yea i think that will help your whole 1-2 shots till a tank runs up to you deal. :rolleyes:
If you walk backwards while shooting, you move at like 1/3rd the speed of the tank advancing.
If you strafe sideways, same deal.
If you run around them at close range, they can hit you as much as you can hit them.
Originally posted by Timster
1: spell range has been severely nerfed - we might aswell be a melee monk for all the use the range now is in op wars.
2: all other other main op war weapons have been overpowered to the fact that apu monks will not survive 1 v 1 without a ppu.
in op wars, see how they loose instantly on their own vs:
melee tank (average time for a DG kill is about 1, possibly 2 if your lucky hits)
hc tank (average time for a devourer kill is 2 hits)
rifle pe (kill goodbye to yourself in under 4 hits from a PE)
pistol pe (stealth hit stealth - youre dead in under 5 seconds)
rifle spy (silent hunter needs only one hit on a capped apu monk to kill them)
i wish my dg had 140m range....that would own... the extending long as Devils Grace.
I also wish my DG could take down APUs in 2 hits, would save them smashing my legs to pieces with hl
Devourer kills most things that are specced wrong in 2/3 hits, cs kills most classes that arent setup in a few burst, all by it pes can take a fair few but there useless at op wars anyway.
You think your the only class hard done by because of stealth....
No weapon in the game kills in one hit, that's the way it's been coded, sh also ********** the unbuffed, takes legs etc, rifles pe you just have to learn to fight.
"all other other main op war weapons have been overpowered to the fact that apu monks will not survive 1 v 1 without a ppu."
The way it should be..... your defense is the sacrifice for the dmg (although it aint as it should be) but teamed with a ppu the force can/is almost unbeatable strong unless its someone + ppu of the same skill level.
PVM i have to team with a ppu, Grims hammered my chars whatever i need a ppu, most of my classes need ppus and as for op fights if they have a ppu you normally need a ppu.
Tanks - Soak up and also deal dmg
Spies - Pick of peeps with rifles from afar or play it carefully and use there superior firepower to pick those who can be taken of
Apus - High Offense Low Defense
PPU - High Defense Low Offense
Pe - Master of 1v1 serves no real point in op wars bar the extra man fighting whos self reliant, maybe hacker or a imper but they dont have any main focus.
apus are shit no matter how you look at it.
pe's own them.
and it's all about the tank and ppu combo :p
www.stopwhine.com
How many times do people need to tell you that the APU spells are bugged and will be boosted again in next patch!?!?
dont click www.stopwhine.com till 2moz its dopwn cosof bandwidth :p
~Tratos
You whiny little bitches. I rolled an APU after the last patch and I am loving him. You can't hunt? FFS I can outheal a regular warbot with medkits, and a titan I just need a tree. Fire mobs are a bit harder, but still very easy. With my ultimated energy beam, I even do decent damage in PvP (although the encounters have been very limited, still levelling).
Christ, you can't drop a mob/player in 3 seconds anymore? Get some freaking skills ffs. No wonder everyone says the APU is the no-skill class with these whines. :rolleyes:
Clownst0pper
01-03-04, 00:01
Candaman your SIG fucking rocks! :eek: :D
hum thought this thread was supposed to be about viability of apus in opfights and large scale engagements...
anyway in pvm (not talking about mc5 here) apus are still very nice; with some cover u can take out lotsa shit.
in pvp: if range is longer than the apu should still be very good; if close range/close quarters, the apu might have some problems. In fights with a load of people not sure how long the apu will survive... not that u'd die fast but u wont be the last one standing either...
well its agreed then by majority that an apu monk of ** rank (56/56) is poo in op wars.
for people going on about have 140m range on their dg etc etc....
seen how fast an mc tank can cover 140m? is faster than an apu monk can run away. then the mc is in dg range and the apu dies in a few measly hits.
apu's in op wars are 'OK' if they have a ppu's hand inside them like a puppet. and even then, as soon as an apu get seperated from the pack, theyre toast quickly, where as spies stealth away, same as pe's and tank can just take the flak.
either way, i think as most people with an APU monk will agree, theyve lost the 'pro' to their 'con' (i.e. the weapon advantage over their weak health deficit)
i think KK need to hire a designer who can balance gameplay - as non of them atm can.
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