View Full Version : Something is rotten in the State of Saturn...
Hi folks,
I must say I'm little bit pissed off by "some" people in "some" clans who think they have to keep OPs onto the world map regardless of anything what makes this game enjoyable for everyone playing it.
Ok, lemme give you idea what I'm talking about. Two big forces clashed at an outpost and fight to dominate it. Team A was considered to be favorite cause it occupied many OPs on the world map and had a large pool of pvp-active members. Team B was kinda like hotpot consists of many small clans who joined forces for a higher ambition: to prove wrong the common opinion that the faction they belong to is incapable of op-fighting and their are all noobs in any event.
It was a hard battle with many casualties on both sides. Force B hacked the OP earlier and despite the absence of good communication repelled multiple attempts of force A to regain control. Force A finaly called allies from other factons and eventually force B was totally outnumbered and had to pull out.
But it was fun altogether and on both sides people enjoyed the fighting a lot. Both sides congratulated each other and the OP returned under force A's flag.
The small alliance of force B did not disband though (like many others before them). Instead, they sat down together, talked about the fights and analysed what went wrong and they decided to try it again.
So in the following days force B provocated many consecutive battles at the SAME op as force A rushed in everytime trying to regain control. For force B teamplay and coordination became better and better and they successfully pushed back force A each time. Even when force A showed up with allies again they still weren't able to take the op back and got beaten instead. Fights were great (usually with more than 30 people on both sides) and people had lots fun. But at the end of each op-day when force B temporarily disband to get enough energy for the next day's fight (i.e. off to bed) the concerned OP silently returned unter force A's flag almost immediately.
Now most of the people in team B slowly got upset. They fought hard for the very OP. They proved that they are superior in pvp and yet at the end of the day they got no rewards. Nothing ingame that gives evidence of their achievements and the huge efforts they put into the whole operation! People from team A talked about nice fights and great fun but they are NOT willing to acknowledge the efforts of team B and to let them to keep the OP til next day.
But what really makes me sad is...
Team A was talking about their concerns regarding the overall situation of the server, about the world map, about the fact that they too agree that it needs more color and they want more factions to get stronger...
BULLSHIT!
THEY TALK ABOUT ADD MORE COLOR TO THE MAP BUT WHEN PEOPLE ECHO THEIR DEMAND AND TRIED TO TAKE OPS AWAY FROM THEM THEY NINJA-HACK IT BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN AFTER THE LONG FIGHTS?!??!?!
Obviously they do not want to honor the efforts of other opless clans to change the op situation on Saturn (yes that's the server). They want to sit on their many OPs, looking satisfied at the world map with their faction color and say: WE ARE BORED. THE MAP NEED MORE COLORS. :rolleyes:
I DO understand that those "estabished" clans have a reputation to loose if they allow people random hacking their beloved OP. But we (yes I was involved in team B) did NOT ninja-hack that very OP. We concentrated our effort on occupying that very OP and we always waited for you to come for a good long fight when we hacked it. We wanted to earn your respect and we want to keep that OP. Sure, we are not able to fight for it 24h a day. You cannot do it either. But the difference is, you ninja-hack it back almost instantly and by doing so make most of us feel cheated and disillusioned.:mad:
Under these circumstances I can say nothing but hypocrite to those uber op-owners of saturn.
-> Community Talk (English)
Mighty Max
28-02-04, 12:50
Cookie?
Btw. das ist das Deutsche Forum. Danke
:edit: ok got moved, so ignore me
Originally posted by Beliar
-> Community Talk (English)
thx
Maybe you should recruit more people. An op is only yours as long as you can defend it no matter what time of day it is. For some its morning for some its way past bedtime. Its just the way thing is. If you want to hold an op you better be prepared to defend it 24/7 or you are going to loose it to "ninjaHackers".
Or you can always fight it out. loose it when you goto bed and then come on the forums complaining about the "lack of ethics in warfare". Not everyone is willing to fight fair, history has it part of evil men using all kinds of dirty tricks to come out victorious.
And if youre really into the wanting to change policies for some clan, maybe you should take it ingame and talk to the leaders of certain clans, come to an understanding on opwar between you two. Im sure you could be somewhat more politician than a whiner, your post above seems to have at least 3-4 thoughts behind it before you posted it.
Basically it disproves, 'force A's' and their drug dealing allies claims to be a superior force, so they have to attempt to cover it up. No doubt we will receive the usual excuse's, but hey in this particular battle I sych-crashed two zone's east then to Via Rossa 3, when i got back to the OP!!!! Btw congrat's to those who fought, Great battle to those who lack the skills and courage to face a challenge................. well u'll meet my new spirit/(undisclosed alternate) ammo modded Silent hunter soon enough!!!
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Maybe you should recruit more people. An op is only yours as long as you can defend it no matter what time of day it is. For some its morning for some its way past bedtime. Its just the way thing is. If you want to hold an op you better be prepared to defend it 24/7 or you are going to loose it to "ninjaHackers".
Actually this is NOT true, at least not for Saturn. Those clans who hold all the OPs are NOT able to defend them 24h/7 either. They are able to hold the OPs because they are "established" so to speak AND because we refrain from ninja-hacking it most of the time.
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Or you can always fight it out. loose it when you goto bed and then come on the forums complaining about the "lack of ethics in warfare". Not everyone is willing to fight fair, history has it part of evil men using all kinds of dirty tricks to come out victorious.
And if youre really into the wanting to change policies for some clan, maybe you should take it ingame and talk to the leaders of certain clans, come to an understanding on opwar between you two. Im sure you could be somewhat more politician than a whiner, your post above seems to have at least 3-4 thoughts behind it before you posted it.
We do not expect you to fight fair. We only expect you have some little respect for those who fight. Cannot be that hard a punishment for your ego to let others to keep one of your zillion OPs for couple of hours. Actually We even expected you to ninja-hack it back, but NOT that you would do it after 4-5 times of getting beaten and NOT just minutes after the others left the battle-field. That's real lame.
Actually I'm talking with them. But they dont seem to pay a dime to what I suggested. Btw. those are not my thoughts. I just summarised the thoughts of all people participated in team B. We got a team forum u see.
Its because Saturns fucked over ATM. Clans take OPs, thinking they are a sign that they are the best clan on the Server, when really, they just get more hated, and fuck the game over for EVERYONE. Especially when saturn is just divided into 2.
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Maybe you should recruit more people. An op is only yours as long as you can defend it no matter what time of day it is. For some its morning for some its way past bedtime. Its just the way thing is. If you want to hold an op you better be prepared to defend it 24/7 or you are going to loose it to "ninjaHackers". Dumbest excuse ever.
masterguyver
28-02-04, 13:49
how about this, after you take a op and hold it for 1 hour (rl time) it then makes it so that op can't be taken for 24 hours (rl time).
How dare you say fa/tg won because of superior pvp? I could beat ANYONE in force "B" 1vs1, you know it, and if you dont I would be more more then happy to prove it. There was one simple fact: vs cm, I never sychronize, and nobodys nameless pes. vs just TG, I never synch or see nameless pes. But when FA comes in, I synch constantly and see nameless pes... thats all there is to it. I wont go into detail of my thoughts because its against the forum rules :rolleyes:
Ill tell you what, we can have me vs anyone in "force B" 1vs1 for control of the op, or we can have a select group of bd vs a select group of "force b" (lets say 5 vs 5) then nobody can complain about lag or numbers, and lets see what happens.
But guess what all? I already know the answer.... too scared on both chalanges.... prove me wrong.
Vett, Its not about who can win one on one, Its sounds as if they won fair n square in a team based effort. just cos you got beat, doesnt mean theyre neccesarily better, just that theyre better in the team organsation and execution of the OP fight situation. 1v1 skill or whatever has absolutely no bearing on that kind of conflict.
Jock Rockwell
28-02-04, 14:02
Thats some Ego :eek:
Just a quick point WTF does your ability to duel have to do with the topic of the post which from my eyes was nothing to do with each forces ability at PvP.
I went to bed after the big fight at Mals last night thinking well that was fun, surely we done enuff for FA to keep that OP for at least that night, sadly i was wrong but ohh well guess we will c u all there again tonight.
it wasnt fun for BD though, thats just my point. they didnt win because they organised better. we were synchronising like hell, and nameless pes were all over the place.... and it ONLY happens when we fight FA, something rotten there if you ask me, but I cant go into more detail then that. ill take screenshots next time and show you, I already know many cartel took screenies, ill take some of my own.
Originally posted by VetteroX
How dare you say fa/tg won because of superior pvp? I could beat ANYONE in force "B" 1vs1, you know it, and if you dont I would be more more then happy to prove it.
*pops Vets ego :p *
Your 1v1 ability shouldnt, or rather doesnt, effect the outcome of an OP war, unless, of course your the last man in A chasing around the last man of B. Im sure he meant superior PvP, in the sense that their teamwork may/was better.
Then again, i wasnt there.
What can I say !!!
http://www.ukastroimaging.co.uk/images/Image4.gif
Sorry Ezza ;)
Mighty Max
28-02-04, 14:43
Maybe its this way, maybe not GT_Rince.
The only thing for sure is that Saturn got a lot more scum.
what the fuck, we didnt ninja, we took maltrond after we had fought pro at drakken, so FA were still on line and it was just CARTEL who took it back, just that a Temp came to do the 3rd layer of the hack, you would of been fighting just one clan at that point, Cartel, so dont give me ninja hack shit, cos even CA and CM were still on line at that point.
is it any wonder we hate fighting FA, when ever time and i mean EVERY TIME we sync out.
edit: rincey, how long did you wait for a constructer? ;)
oooh...I sure hope no one's getting the underlying "FA r teh cheat0rz, they make syncing" thought :rolleyes:
Syncing happened on both sides anyways, why is it THAT hard for Group A to admit they lost??
At the current state of the server I sync when I see 2 warbots at the same time...and that's in a virtually player free zone.
You lot lost, you can't handle it and then use timezones to take the OP back, fair deal, just be man enuff to admit it.
I suggest those who are making unproved accusations to send your proof to abuse@neocron.com.
As for numbers and skills, I do not know the numbers related in those fights, but I assume those were much more than 1v1 and 5v5... in this case you cannot assume that all of 'Team A' have more skill than all of 'Team B', you can answer for your own skill but talking for I.E. 20 persons of each side is opening your mouth too much.
In the end, there is made an average of skill and coordination between ALL members of both teams, so even if you have 5 great players capable to beat any other 5 of the server, it will mean jackshit.
And the poster has a very good point there, and very well explained. Hats off Humphrey.
Maybe the synch's are something to do with those particular zones?
If you always fight FA over the same area or something and theres a glitch in that zone with the synching, that might have some effect on it. You just dont notice, cos fighting others elsewhere is usually around another zone that doesnt have a problem.
Its like back when I was in a major clan, we always seemed to fight the same people over the same ops. TG would always be going after Tezla or Nemesis (which we held on to for Months :p) and other clans would always seem to go for Gravis or Emmerson.
If FA do the same thing (concentrating efforts on one zone to get the "foothold") then if theres a problem with synch in that zone, then it could seem related to fighting FA when its really just the zone itself thats a bit dodgy.
Just a possibility, The chance of a certain individual or group of individuals being able to have an effect like that on an opposing sides client connections or stability seems unlikely. Im not saying impossible mind you, just unlikely.
Originally posted by HumphreY
we refrain from ninja-hacking it most of the time.
I am not accusing you of this but, you might should speak to your faction, I know Malstrond was hacked constantly this week at around 4 AM Central time consistently... heck when they brought the server down not 10 minutes after the server came back up Malstrond was hacked... we had 2 members on at the time. I personally don't care because I enjoy having a place I can goto and have some PvP fun... but really I could name 2 factions right off the top of my head that consistantly hack outposts(Grant Mine and Malstrond) when we have the least amount of people on so it might not do you any good to point fingers :p
Unless you come to some sort of code of war between the clans on saturn you can most likely forget any "honourly" won fights and keeping ops after that. If you only have 2 people online when a hacksquad comes by... bubye op.
If you want something done, do it yourself. Dont expect others to do it for you or you end up very angry at others.
/edit
posted by some wierdo
Dumbest excuse ever.
well... thank you for your brilliant input, ill happily remember that long after i quit playing neocron. As a matter of fact ill even print it out, have it framed in and put it over my bed and my mantelpiece so I can enjoy the elegance and grace in the words and its meaning. Dear dude, you gave me something really useful to think about with your post.
Originally posted by Estabin
4 AM Central time
remember the little thing called timezones?
That and the majority of the playerbase being European (as far as i know) we're all working around GMT time scales.
To you it may seem like ninja hacking, but to the ones doing the hack it might be primetime.
NOT the best way to back up an accusation of Ninja'ing when its an international community :p
Do u guys realy think we dont also have Syncs and unnamed PEs at Malstrond?
If more than about 50 playes enter this damn sector its normal!
look:
http://www.techhaven.de/images/sonstiges/opfights/off2-05.jpg
http://www.techhaven.de/images/sonstiges/opfights/off2-06.jpg
same on both sides.
btw. I fully agree with Hump´s post about Ninjahacking and I am realy disappointed of Templers behavior... we fought hard for hours and after we logged the OP got nighthacked...
Not once, they already did it twice o_O
A little bit fairplay would be nice :p
this coming from a clan who used to have no problem with ninjaing ops back
how come, we were still getting resistance from FA, maybe its just you EOE guys who have to go to bed early
edit: ive fought many a big battle at malstrond, and until recently i never had a sync prob. i mean i was fucking owning you guys, personally killed about 6 or 7 only reason i left was cos i had Red SL
Jock Rockwell
28-02-04, 16:53
I h8 the term Ninja hacking tbh, the way i see it like some1 mentioned be4 this is an international game and you will always have people playing it at inconveniant times to yourself. Its something that every1 needs to realise so they can get this chip off there shoulder.
I cant say what happened after the big mals fight last night, but i went to be with the feeling we had done enuff to have the OP left alone overnight, but like i said i have no idea what the rest of the group did after so cant really comment on why we lost it.
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Maybe you should recruit more people. An op is only yours as long as you can defend it no matter what time of day it is. For some its morning for some its way past bedtime. Its just the way thing is. If you want to hold an op you better be prepared to defend it 24/7 or you are going to loose it to "ninjaHackers".
Whats the point of recruiting more people when it just means your enemy will bring more?
Honourable fighters will bring equal numbers to an op-fight, if force b is 20 whats the point of force a bringing 40? Fighting a guarenteed win is no fun imo.
Also what is the point of a clan holding more than 5 ops? All you need is a max of one of every kind, is it making up for shot-comings else-where? That doesnt mean you wont get a fight if you have all 5 of your primary ops hack one of your enemies for a fight, fight for it but dont stress if you loose it, that way you can get fights have all the advantages ops give without dominating the map.
Also not being able to defend your ops through the night is BS whats the point of a clan taking an op from an enmey with 3 on for example? Especially since they know if they wait 12 hours they can get a fight?
Lastly the big factions on saturn seem to complain about faction hoppers alot and yet they cant tell why they attract them? They force other factions out of the map by dirty tricks limiting the grs and sadly many people just like to be on the side that can gr about etc.
Originally posted by ezza
snip...
edit: ive fought many a big battle at malstrond, and until recently i never had a sync prob. i mean i was fucking owning you guys, personally killed about 6 or 7 only reason i left was cos i had Red SL
U owned alot more then just EOE then :p
Originally posted by KuifJe
U owned alot more then just EOE then :p yes cos its was eoe/pro/BAD and some TG i think
oh and there are those things acalled ppus that resurect the dead:rolleyes:
Eerrr...I was referring to the red SL :wtf:
Irony translates bad over the i-net :(
btw. I fully agree with Hump´s post about Ninjahacking and I am realy disappointed of Templers behavior... we fought hard for hours and after we logged the OP got nighthacked...
Dont throw bricks in glass houses...
I remember alooong time ago when a certain clan was nothing more than 2-3 people online and owning 4-5 ops and they only did the so-called ninjahacking.
Fact is. You dont own it, someone else does. If you want it go take it. Rest is just kids in a sandbox discussing how to make sandcakes.
Originally posted by KuifJe
Eerrr...I was referring to the red SL :wtf:
Irony translates bad over the i-net :( shit sorry man didnt pick up on that bit, my bad.
ive had red SL so much these past few days i kinda get used to it
)iMpLoSiOn(
28-02-04, 17:13
hi,
just in short words,
100% agree to the poster HumphreY .
That is fact !
just play the game if ur not satisfied DONT PAY. idiot.
the only reason why your force won, was because everyone was synching out the first few times on our side.
Quit whining, defend your outpost or get over it. You wanted an op war you got one.
It's honestly ridiculous when you got 4-5 factions fighting just 1 so that 1 faction needs help and calls in another faction to help and then you get the biggest whiny post on the forums. What do you expect, the former outpost owning faction to send you some cookies and milk?
Dont give me uber skill no skill in killing a syncing target.
Elric or anyone else for that matter like to join us for a little FA/TG/TSU/MISC vs BD/TT and enjoy some syncage.
We have fought these guys all over the place (differn't ops) and always syncing like mad. We have also fought the mercs all over the place sometimes with more numbers then the FA/TG fights and there is never really mass syncing.
1st time myself,zon3seek and his bro show to fight, zoneseek leaves to go buy someshit when he is almost back everyone are side starts syncing so he after he zones and comes towards the op he is like this aint to bad they are probably syncing as well, what does he see BD and templars syncing and getting hammered and a shit load of FA/TG running about. Very odd indeed.
Fight was good untill everyone synced 7-12 times not to fun when that starts.
There is an issue with how many people who are in a sector. And from the looks of it, the ones that got there first usually dont synch as much as the last ones who comes into zone. Just a notice from what Ive experienced due to big fights. It also would explain why defending ops are usually so much more synch free than attacking em.
from what i hear about the syncs you guys who suffer from it are in general from america/canada, i was at the fight last noght and heard all of the people who crashed and i dont recall a euro player complaining about it.
From experience and being guilty of accusing it myself in the past i find that i have learnt to ignore these problems in the hope that it is just server in-stability and not rogue people deliberatly causing the syncs.
that is another matter, but from what Dawnload has posted it goes to prove that i can and does effect both sides, and the force of the fights last night where larger than i have experienced between the other forces suchs as CM and TG etc.
Originally posted by VetteroX
How dare you say fa/tg won because of superior pvp? I could beat ANYONE in force "B" 1vs1, you know it, and if you dont I would be more more then happy to prove it. There was one simple fact: vs cm, I never sychronize, and nobodys nameless pes. vs just TG, I never synch or see nameless pes. But when FA comes in, I synch constantly and see nameless pes... thats all there is to it. I wont go into detail of my thoughts because its against the forum rules :rolleyes:
Ill tell you what, we can have me vs anyone in "force B" 1vs1 for control of the op, or we can have a select group of bd vs a select group of "force b" (lets say 5 vs 5) then nobody can complain about lag or numbers, and lets see what happens.
But guess what all? I already know the answer.... too scared on both chalanges.... prove me wrong.
Ahhh but ! vs ! never happens at an OP war and you know it, thus it has nothing to do with an OP war, there is rarely even sides and why so sore that your side my have been outskilled for a change, you know that duels and OP wars are a world apart and that the outcome of a 5 v 5 duel will mostly likely be different to a 5 v 5 OP war
Originally posted by stigmata
from what i hear about the syncs you guys who suffer from it are in general from america/canada, i was at the fight last noght and heard all of the people who crashed and i dont recall a euro player complaining about it.
From experience and being guilty of accusing it myself in the past i find that i have learnt to ignore these problems in the hope that it is just server in-stability and not rogue people deliberatly causing the syncs.
that is another matter, but from what Dawnload has posted it goes to prove that i can and does effect both sides, and the force of the fights last night where larger than i have experienced between the other forces suchs as CM and TG etc. i had the probs of syncing and im UK based
Originally posted by stigmata
from what i hear about the syncs you guys who suffer from it are in general from america/canada
A huge chunk of cartell is Euro based and alot of temps are eurpian as well.
Agreed with tread starter, the thread about 2-stoned map is pointless if BD/TT doesnt even give a chance to other factions to even own a thing even after several victories all effords are in vain a couple heures later its 2 coleurs again...
And excuse to recruit more ppl or usa peeps that bullshit....Cause tt and bd are mega clans , so ur saying u need clans alike New Dawn to get ops , we all knows where that gets to...and its not ''more coleur or more other faction action''....
Dont give me this weeping bullshit shit "Poor us we havn't the chance". Dont sit here and act like your a small little force being stomp on by the big bad giant. Your side can and has match are numbers and according to urselfs your all suppior to us inferior cartel members. So what is the problem.
You have your massive TG/FA/Tsu and other alliance coming at us wich is huge. Thenwe have merc's and FA coming at us for wich TT doesn't show cause of faction.
No more posts like this please..Keep it ingame
Originally posted by ezza
what the fuck, we didnt ninja, we took maltrond after we had fought pro at drakken, so FA were still on line and it was just CARTEL who took it back, just that a Temp came to do the 3rd layer of the hack, you would of been fighting just one clan at that point, Cartel, so dont give me ninja hack shit, cos even CA and CM were still on line at that point.
is it any wonder we hate fighting FA, when ever time and i mean EVERY TIME we sync out.
edit: rincey, how long did you wait for a constructer? ;)
Thread Closed
[EDIT - You guys should know by now to keep this crap ingame. Please learn from your previous mistakes - Ulle]
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