ReaKKtor, whats wrong with your game engine(s)?

[Zanathos]

Here I am, at an Outpost war, at Malstrond, my resolution is at 1024 x 764 at 32 bit colors the detail settings are ALL the way down, everthing except object blend and force fog because its impossible to fight with those on.

for some odd reason, my frame rate is around 8 to 12 FPS when im around the larger battles.

so after about 15 minutes of frustration at trying to aim at people with my PE and making it very difficult to do so cause of the shitty frame rate, i close the game

i go to edit the resolution settings.

i down grade them to 640 x 480 at 16 bit colors.

go back into the game

so i try to fight for a bit, but hey, my frame rate is still crap haning around 8 to 12 FPS STILL after i change the resolution settings.

so after running around being useless for a few more minutes, i get parashocked, damage boosted and then holy lightninged to death.

then I came here and made this





ReaKKtor, what the hell is going on with your game engine(s)?

as i uderstand it, BDoY will fix this problem but come on!

I can play unreal Tournament 2003/2004 demo just fine

unreal II i can play just fine
americas army
wolfenstein et
command and conquer renegade
quake II

all of which are even more grahpically advanced then neocron

i get stable frame rates in those games

WHAT IS GOING ON!?!?!?!

[Tratos]

Answer, Old Engine + Not exactly good netcode

~Tratos

[Psyco Groupie]

at some ops the engine is render things in teh distance for no aprent reason, turn on force fog (just for op fights).

[Zanathos]

even with force fog on, its still pretty shitty frame rate.

and i cant fight with that limited of range on my vision!

seriously man!

its gotta be a crappy coding on the engine!

there is no reason why a game like this on a computer such as this

pentium 4 2.0 ghz with northwood support (more cache memory)
nvidia geforce 4 ti 4200 128 mb vid card
512 mb of ddr ram at 333 mhz
cable internet

should give such a bad frame rate.

[Tratos]

we all know

all of us do

it will hopfully be sorted with DOY

and your sig is too big

~Tratos

[Zanathos]

im fixing it.....


and considering the expansion wont be out till June prolly, seems like i got ALOT of boredom ahead of me.

[Dribble Joy]

OLD engine. KK simply cannot afford a new engine from somewhere else. Afaik the NC engine is a (self) modded shareware engine.

That and it relys MASSIVELY on the cpu and not the gfx.

[Tratos]

yeah the engine has been tweeked so much its no longer what it started as, theres probaly nothing original left to it :(

~Tratos

[CJB]

Got no problems with it !

Plaza 1 50-70fps
Wastelands without MB 50- 80fps
MB and Caves/Dungeons 60- 100fps most time.


XP2800
1024 mb Ram ddr 333
ATI 9800 Pro Utimate

nothing else

[Dribble Joy]

Originally posted by CJB
Wastelands without MB 50- 80fps

I hate you.

[Tratos]

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I hate you.

I quote that and i have and i mean it lol

~Tratos

[mdares]

1024 mb ram...

now i hate u for that


not everyone has 1024... and not at an affordable price for my laptop :(

[shodanjr_gr]

The engine is FUBAR

KK PLease face the truth...

Its not our computers

ITS YOUR GAME FFS!!!!!!!

[StryfeX]

Originally posted by CJB
Got no problems with it !

Plaza 1 50-70fps
Wastelands without MB 50- 80fps
MB and Caves/Dungeons 60- 100fps most time.


XP2800
1024 mb Ram ddr 333
ATI 9800 Pro Utimate

nothing else Die.

[Richard Angelus]

as said....
'old' DX 7 Engine (need much more CPU Power than your graphic card)
yeah there is a problem with something.....near the zone border you mostly get high FPS.....but if you are in the middle of the zone you get much lower FPS

I hope that will be fixed with the 'new' engine (you can say its new because its very work intensive to 'update' a DX 7 Engine to DX 9)

[Dribble Joy]

Heh, his comp is about 8 times more powerful than mine though :p.

[Crackitakk]

wow, so im not the only one with this problem?

I'd say i have a 4/5 computer and i get framerates of 4 at some op wars...how is it that i can run ut2004 demo with PERFECT grafix, i meen
kick asssss grafix and get a 40fps framerate thats nice and steady, and in neocron it jumps around between 8 and 70.....old engine i guess. never seen a game use up as much resources and processing as neocron, and the grafix are only decent

[Jock Rockwell]

Im the same CJB, but the second thers 30 people inzone all runnin around fightin and buffing I drop to around 10-20.

I run at 1280 X 1024 32 Bit and i didnt notice much of a difference when i ran it at 640 x 480 16 bit, maybe i got about 10 fps more when hunting but everytime theres a fight the fps seems to stay the same no matter what res i run at.

[Dribble Joy]

Because the ut2k4 engine is insane. It probably costs MILLIONS to get a license for it and was developed not long ago unlike the NC engine. That and many other reasons.

[Zeph0n]

They have said previously that Neocron is mostly processer intensive and when DOY comes out they are going to change that so that the Graphics card will take a load to take ost of the pressure off the processor.

[Dribble Joy]

Indeed.
http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=190
1.1

[Crackitakk]

hm...doy better kick ass....sounds like it will

[Invertigo]

Originally posted by CJB
Got no problems with it !

Plaza 1 50-70fps
Wastelands without MB 50- 80fps
MB and Caves/Dungeons 60- 100fps most time.


XP2800
1024 mb Ram ddr 333
ATI 9800 Pro Utimate

nothing else


and that setup is how many times greater than the recommended req's for neocron?

[Dajuda]

It's not the engines fault you get bad FPS .. I get 300+ in apps, 200 in TH, 100+ in p1 .. 50-60 at op wars. So it's NOT the engine, it's your comp. I can post screens too fi you dont believe me, or you can just look at em in earlier posts about framerate.

If you're wondering ..

Barton 2500
9700 Pro
1 GB ram
Nforce mobo

AAx6 AFx8

[Samhain]

If you're wondering ..

Barton 2500
9700 Pro
1 GB ram
Nforce mobo

AAx6 AFx8

Being full of shit is fun I bet.

on top of that, why the fuck would you waste performance on 6x antialiasing but not go to 16x anisioptric filtering?

and for 'reference'

I've got a barton 2500 overclocked to 2.4GHz
a 9500 modified to 9700 pro (thermoelectric and watercooled)
512mb of pc2700 ram overclocked to pc3200 spec
nforce2 mobo

i get 1/10th of what you claim in speeds

[Clyde]

2 people out of the entire 1000 old subscribers that get good fps with theyre average gaming system IS the engines fault periodpointblank.com

heres my specs

2500+ barton clocked to 3200+ (11x202)
2x256 OCZ DUALCHANNEL pc3200
ti4600 128mb
MSI K7N2 Delta-L
30gig raptor 10k rpm

I play at 1024x32bit, 2xfsaa/2xani and yet i only get 20-50 plaza 1, 60 oz and op fights 10-20

Shit, bonnie just had a decent upgrade to and she gets basically the same with maby a variation of 3-5 fps difference.

XP 2200+
256 pc2700 kingston value ram
Some ECS mb
40gig hd
ti4200 128mb

[athon]

1. KK have already admitted that it's a problem with the engine, so you can stop posting about that.

2. It's been said atleast 5 times already in this thread. Are you blind? Stop posting about it already.

3. If KK do fix the engine properly, it'll be the best change that the BDoY expansion makes and will have been well worth the wait IMO.

4. (Pre-statement: I know there are people who have it worse than me on this aspect, but...) It's not that bad. I've been at events where my FPS goes down to 10 at mass spawn events and the game is still playable - I can see what I'm doing and move logically - that's not bad and I don't know of any other game that remains playable at 10fps.

Athon Solo

[shodanjr_gr]

Originally posted by Dajuda
It's not the engines fault you get bad FPS .. I get 300+ in apps, 200 in TH, 100+ in p1 .. 50-60 at op wars. So it's NOT the engine, it's your comp. I can post screens too fi you dont believe me, or you can just look at em in earlier posts about framerate.

If you're wondering ..

Barton 2500
9700 Pro
1 GB ram
Nforce mobo

AAx6 AFx8

Dont speak out of your fucking ass...

I got Celeron 1.7 @ 2 ghz

I got 3x256 DDR 333mhz

I got Radeon 9800 SE 128 MB


I can run UT2K3 at 60 fps+ steady with the "Holy shit" settings at 1024x768

I get 23.000 marks on Aquamark 3.

But my computer CRAWLS in Neocron.

And you say that the engine is not fubared???

Get a clue!

[greploco]

force fog works very well, as long as you don't need to see in the distance. upgrading pc does also help, cpu upgrade I mean.

[Endar]

Hmm... It also seems like everyone with good fps have lotsa RAM like 1gb.. I think im gonna upgrade my comp to 3000+ AMD xp with 2ghz ddr ram and a good gfx card next summer :D

[MrWeedster]

the problem for the ATI users is the following:

u have to switch the V-Sync on or off (dunno what exactly), but this i heared gives a huge performance - boost


greetz: weed

[steweygrrr]

I get good frame rates and I dont have an 'uber uner' system.

In the dungeons I get around 60-100fps (XP caps it at that for some reason)

Around 40-60 at MB

And in a opwar last night at emmerson I still got around 30 fps with nearly 30 people there and 8 of those were APUs and another 7 were PPUs and seeing as I have noticed flamethrowers hit my fps I'll add in the 3 insane TJ devtanks.

And all im using is:

AMD Barton 2500XP
Cheap ASRock Mobo
256mb DDR 400
GeForce FX5600
Hercules Muse Gamesurround 5.1 sound

[Dajuda]

Being full of shit is fun I bet.


Why would I lie about this? And i said i could prove it .. so here you are.

http://members.cox.net/daj-/framerate.jpg

http://members.cox.net/daj-/framerate2.jpg

Still full of shit? Didn't think so.

Edit: You can also request some shots, I'll be more than happy to take some if you still think I'm full of shit.

[BlackPrince]

Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Dont speak out of your fucking ass...

I got Celeron 1.7 @ 2 ghz

I got 3x256 DDR 333mhz

I got Radeon 9800 SE 128 MB


I can run UT2K3 at 60 fps+ steady with the "Holy shit" settings at 1024x768

I get 23.000 marks on Aquamark 3.

But my computer CRAWLS in Neocron.

And you say that the engine is not fubared???

Get a clue!

It's already been gone over, Neocrons Engine is a CPU hog. Combine that with your Celeron processor and I'm amazed you're even present at Opfights. Funny, PS ran better on my old system than Neo, and that is saying a lot (SOE's rendering is absolute (@*#)(@*).

[Seven]

I'm pretty sure they use a modified version of the Genesis3D engine.
Anyone know for sure?

http://www.genesis3d.com/

[Omnituens]

yup, modified Gen3D engine, hence why i cant decompile the models to make better ones :p

another thing that pisses me of about the distance rendering in NC (other than it make my silent hunter's 2000m range fucking meaningless) is the fack you can see further at the edges of you FOV than the centre. speaking to some ppl, this appearently happens in all 3d games, but i've only ever noticed it in NC.

if i spot someone out of the corner of my eye, and i look at them, they are not in the fog. sort this out ffs, i want 2000m range on my SH!

[Disturbed021]

Originally posted by Dajuda


http://members.cox.net/daj-/framerate.jpg

http://members.cox.net/daj-/framerate2.jpg

Still full of shit? Didn't think so.


Someone got owned by those screenies :p

neways Dajuda I hate u:( I get at most 62 fps at big OP wars it can drop to 10 or so if I don't have Force Fog on 25-30 with it on.
But Daj is proof you can run NC really really well....

[IceStorm]

NC has a tendency to leak and hit the disk if you have only 512MB of memory. 1GB fixed the problem for me - the client usually crashes before I leak out over 1GB of memory for the program.

At the D_11 event on Foster, I GRed out to take a look. My 2.53 (the rest in the .sig was the same) dropped me to 18-20 FPS at points. It's normal. Haven't tried a bigger group since I put in the 3.06, but I haven't enabld HT yet, either.

A 1.7 Celeron for NC will be a poor performer. The game's CPU intenslve. The Celeron's woefully underpowered for CPU-intensive games. Get a proper P4 CPU.

[Sleawer]

With vertical-sync off I can get the same fps than those screens (for the second you don't need to turn v-sync off, just a good machine). However it doesn't reduce the problem when P1 is crowded... and for what I want having 333 fps staring a wall in my appt anyway?

Not saying that you don't get those fps... with 3200xp 1gb ram nvidia gforce4 tit 4200 64mb agp 8x (gfx card doesnt matter that much in this game anyway) I can get a very smooth Neocron in ANY place with as many people as you want (the game will crash before me).

But look at the recommended specs (copy-pasted from Neocron box):

Processor: PII 400 MHz or better
RAM: 64 mb, 128 mb recommended
OS: Win 95B/98/ME/2000/XP
Hard Drive: min 750 mb free space
Grafic Card: 3D, 8MB, DirectX 7 comp
Sound Card: DirectX 7 compatible
Modem: 56k or better
CD-RoM: 4x or faster

Now tell me that people getting that crappy performance don't have AT LEAST double than these specs (save one or two).

Maybe it's not the engine if you look at it from a good system, but if you look at it from the average then it IS either the engine or KK putting enought recommended specs to load the launcher screen :p

[Matthew.v.smith]

Well whereabouts can u turn V-sync off exactly?

Matty.:angel:

[Dribble Joy]

Display properties - settings - advanced - Direct3D

[Matthew.v.smith]

lol the first place I looked.guess i overlooked it.

thanks tho Dj.

Matty.

:angel:

[Matthew.v.smith]

Well.

it really works (fps in my appy from 60/71 to 110).

But something doesent feel right that I cant put my finger on...
The colours seem a bit washed out and the extra 50 fps doesent really increase speed at all.

It seems that the game is just miscalculating fps.
anyone available to comment?

Matty.:angel:

[Lafiel]

hmm i have p4 2.5 ghz
asus mobo
radeon 9700 pro
2 gig ram

and i get fraction of the fps u get

[athon]

AFAIK Vsync syncs your graphics output with your monitors refresh rate, giving you smoother gameplay (in my experiance). Turning it off doesn't really have an effect in that you're now processing extra frames that you don't need to, since your monitor can't draw all of them. I believe it can actually lead to graphical problems like tearing.

Proof that a high fps is not always good =P

Athon Solo

[Zanathos]

Well, I dont have a vertical sync option in my direct 3d, there is one for my open GL however.

ANYTHING i can do to raise my FPS is great, reducing the resolution doesnt help (maybe 1 frame rate or 2)

[Sleawer]

You are right Athon.

[Matthew.v.smith]

Well even tho it gives an extra 50 fps thats only frames that your monitor isnt processing.

Imo theres no noticable extra speed it all just runs the same but with higher fps being recorded but not actually being distributed.

The only use is to show off in your screenies Look i got 300 fps l337.

Matty.
:angel:

[Lisa]

For NVidia-Cards, you need an extra tool to make some hidden driver options available, like VSync on/off for DirectX. Powerstrip is such a tool.
In my opinion, the gameplay is better with Vsync off, if your processor is a bit weak.
If the rendering of the scene takes a bit longer than displaying one frame on your Monitor, the processor has to wait for the next vertical sync, until it's able to render the next image. So if your monitor runs at 80Hz and VSync is on, the FPS will drop to 40 FPS whenever the processor is to slow to render the scene in 1/80 second. With VSync off, the same scene might perhaps be displayed at 70 FPS, because the processor wastes no time waiting for the next VSync.

/edit perhaps it's only the jumping of the frame rates that is disturbing me with vsync on. I'd also like a hotkey to switch fog and object blend on and off in a fight.

P.S.: Sorry, I am German. I hope you understand me anyway. Hehe.

[HellBreaker]

I just built me a new computer and the FPS is still the same o_O

i went from a

P3 450Mhz
256mb RAM
32MB Graphic Card
Which gave me about 8 to 12 FPS anywere

to

Celron 2Ghz
512MD 333mhz RAM
128MB Gforce FX5200 Ultra Graphic Card
Which still gives me about 8 to 12 FPS

For my FPS to stay the same on the 2 different machines i think they should have a look at how the game is made and do anything to make it better (yeah like that will happen , but we can always hope lol :D ):lol:

[Spoon]

It's all fun and games until someone makes a reference.
Might want to read this (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92475).

[Clive tombstone]

LOL HEiL NeocroN!

[Omnituens]

Originally posted by Spoon
Edited - Ran
you are... so banned :p

[deac]

p4 @ 3000
ram 1 gig
ati 9800 se

V sync off...

111 frames looking at the wall
40-80 running around
and get this... 5-15 at op wars!?!?!?!1!

[Varaem]

I think the fps cap in neocron is 333 or something, I get that staring at a wall in pp small apt.

And I get about 40 in op wars.

Um.. on a laptop.

[dem0n]

answer:

dev nibbies with nasa computers fucking us with our waste pcs. fucking rich kids... nuff said.

[Dajuda]

OMG that was the best flash/whatever move i've ever seen .. Bahahahahaahh!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tank!]

I would apply as a programmer for KK, but I barely speak german at all. :(

If the programmers want some help though and hey dont mind english, I could apply... ;)

[metalangel]

That flash would almost be good if it weren't for the constant anti-German sentiment in it...

Yes, I too am amazed by the general slowness of the FPS. I don't know how the heck you're meant to fight at OP wars.

[hivemind]

NC has a tendency to leak and hit the disk if you have only 512MB of memory. 1GB fixed the problem for me - the client usually crashes before I leak out over 1GB of memory for the program.
That's probably the best comment in this thread.

And ROFL@teh flash

[Zanathos]

Perhaps when I get paid I will expand the amount of RAM on my computer

512 MB of DDR RAM at 333 MHZ to 1024 MB of DDR RAM at some other higher MHZ

btw

my video card is nVidia GeForce 4 Ti 4200 128 MB (no idea what the x agp thing is)

how do I disable Vertical syncin on this video card?

[Omnituens]

right-click desktop

select properties

select settings tab

select advanced

select GeForce tab

click the little green arrow to expand a side panel

select openGL setting

its right there

thats for openGL, i think you need the Omega drivers to alter D3D settings... or unlock it with a reg hax....

[rob444]

First of all, its not their engine so dont blame reakktor.

Second, I get more FPS on 1024 than 640 (usually is that way on the latest graphic cards)

Third, the engines performance is very bad in general

[-FN-]

Originally posted by Zanathos
even with force fog on, its still pretty shitty frame rate.

and i cant fight with that limited of range on my vision!

seriously man!

its gotta be a crappy coding on the engine!

there is no reason why a game like this on a computer such as this

pentium 4 2.0 ghz with northwood support (more cache memory)
nvidia geforce 4 ti 4200 128 mb vid card
512 mb of ddr ram at 333 mhz
cable internet

should give such a bad frame rate.

I have a machine that's not nearly as fast and get a constant 60ish FPS. Athlon 1.7, GF3Pro, 512DDR400.

It's not the engine. It's people's software (or the uber rare case of people's defunt hardware). If your drivers for ANY device are off by a version number, it can KILL things running on your system. Most players don't want to admit their "uber Dell" they bought can be performing so badly and it must be the game they bought.

NC's Engine can display great graphics at great FPS with LESSER hardware than what you have. DoY will not fix this. DoY will bring higher textures and only make your problem worse. If you can't test a dozen different drivers with a few different OSs (ok maybe only 2K or XP :p), then I don't know how people can expect a company to feel at fault for an engine when 90% of their users have decent FPS. Coding an engine to work with 50,000 different pieces of hardware with an exponential number of driver sets for each piece of hardware isn't easy. People here only think it's a huge problem because you only see negative posts. If there were positive posts this board would be flooded....

which makes me want to hit the New Post button....

-- edit --

Also, from experience, NC has very decent netcode considering I play on 56k a lot and don't have many problems, while I pretty much cannot play any other online game out there on 56k.

And on the topic of resolutions... running a game in your desktops resolution and bpp will usually yield the best FPS results for your game. Not always, but usually.

[Sleawer]

Hit the button, and be sure to make a poll (even if it will never be accurate) so we can see raw numbers of who's getting good/bad perfomance.

I'm interested aswell.
Btw if you get a good ammount of fps with that system in critical situations, also would help if you posted some specific specs of what you did to improve your gameplay in that aspect.

Saying only 'it is good' is as bad as saying only 'it is a crap'. People that post here are not really doing it for the sake of bitching, but more because perhaps someone can bring a solution that helps them aside getting an extreme machine.

[Elric]

i posted that thing that helped FRE's and even stabalised and sometimes improved ping and FPS for some peoples machines.

Look wat happened. The post has disappeared to god knows what page.

[Marx]

Originally posted by Elric
i posted that thing that helped FRE's and even stabalised and sometimes improved ping and FPS for some peoples machines.

Look wat happened. The post has disappeared to god knows what page.

People want to bitch and play ignorant.

[Sleawer]

You cannot expect threads to survive forever.
Personally I changed the priority on client.exe and didn't see any improvement fps-ping wise... and I don't really have that many FRE's to compare.

With my machine I get constant 70-80 (and 100+ in certain places) fps in non-critical situations, when I go to an OP war or Plaza1 it drops to 20 fps... and from what I heard I'm lucky.

My bro was getting 100+ fps at ANY place or situation... then again he has a monster machine and I do not.
I agree that to a certain extent it's peoples software the issue, as with a 1.5 ghz and 512 SDR I'm getting better performance than some people posting here with better machines.

However I have been playing DAoC recently and dude, I could stay in the same zone with 300+ persons without sweating. Also not a single crash, zero bugs, smoothest gameplay ever... I think it also counts.

[Ran]

Discussing complaints I don't mind, flash movies that I know are going to piss off my German counterparts I do. Think before you link.

[cRazy2003]

i think i remember seeing how neocrons graphics run off the CPU instead of the graphics card, or something along those lines anyways, and of cause the cpu does everything else while running the game so maybe thats why, and i think i saw in the doy plan file stating the new direct X and better engine so mebbe the FPS will be BETTER in B:DoY then in neocron as it is now, who knows :p

[Zanathos]

It is true that when the expansion comes out, the game will be less CPU dependant.

and btw, I have already disabled vertical sync for my card.

I cant do it for my direct 3d settings.

my game IS at the same resolution as my desktop.

I'll double check the colors though

If i downloaded new drivers for my video card, my bro would be unhappy.... cause for some reason, wolfenstein ET does not like the lasted drivers.

Guess I'll go email nvidia about it.

mid sized to large OP wars kill me.

I dont even bother lower my resolution in OP wars anymore (or reduce the graphics) as it only adds about 2 or 3 more frame rates. (My PE is useless in OP wars prety much because of this)



And btw, very few people get good FPS' in this game.

I made a poll before and most people said there averages were between 11 and 20, 21 and 30. (average)

Mine is usually around 21 to 30 FPS. (average)