View Full Version : Private Eyes
I swear.
The next time I hear (read) someone say that private eyes are supposed to be Jack of All Trades (JoATs) and should be JoATs, I'm going to commit ritual suicide by stabbing myself in the stomach.
Okay, PEs are to some extent... low level Tank armor, low level spy rares, low level stealth, low level psi. But still... spies complain that PEs shouldn't be able to use any of their rares to be even more JoATs. In that case...
All spies should not be able to wear any armor and get any resist over 25 (excluding xray from their PA).
All tanks should not be able to move faster than walk speed with a cannon out, and should not be able to move at all while the firing animation is playing for their cannons.
Monks... should be ... balanced. omg. There's a concept.
Now this isn't a "OMG PEs are teh suxor!!11 I need a boost! Nerf all teh other classes!" thread... it's a "I'm fucking sick of people complaining about my class when it's already the worst." I'm perfectly happy as a PE right now (except for the dev/cs boost which is being fixed, so even that's not too bad).
I mean really, what's so horrible about PEs that you cry nerf? Lowest damage output in the game (besides PPUs.. but that's a moot point), 2nd highest defense in the game (trade off with tank, depending on your setup), and the absolute worst class to bring to an op war. A spy can do anything a PE can do, but better, in an op war. With PPUs... PEs just suck. Only thing I ever need from a PPU is pc3 (sometimes), heat 3 (sometimes) and spy 3 (only for hacking the op). I don't even _NEED_ those, they're just nice and helpful.
So for all of you who think PEs deserve the absolute worst of every class... just go away and die please. There would be no point in playing a PE. There really isn't even one now.
I agree with you 100%. Just thought I'd get that in before the class flaming started o_O
you have grasped the wrong end of the stick. all the nerf threads arent about nerfing PE's. they are usually STARTED by a PE asking for nerfs to other classes(for example your remark about monks)
all most people state in a rationa lmanner is the PE's are versatile. they have average in all stats. so they SHOULD be less effective in any given skill. but before you cry "omg!!1 liez" consider what that means. ok a spy maybe able to cap his rares. but his defence sucks, APU's do uber damage but again their defence sucks. PE's are in my eyes like slightly miniature more versatile tanks. they can hack / imp as well as be good fighters. i.e they have a wider range of skills. kind of like special forces. the tank should deal more damage and have a good defence. thats what the class is all about. tonnes of health and big guns. PE's can stealth, hack, snipe, use pistols well etc.
basically i dont think people want PE's nerfed or anything. its just when all the PEs come out whining about boosts to other classes (drones for example) it gets a little tiresome and everybody gets a little hot under the collar. PE's are a good well rounded class IMO.
Originally posted by icarium
you have grasped the wrong end of the stick. all the nerf threads arent about nerfing PE's. they are usually STARTED by a PE asking for nerfs to other classes(for example your remark about monks)
I didn't ask for a monk nerf, I asked for them to be balanced. There is a difference. Right now Holy Light is nerfed and shouldn't have been. Fire Apoc does silly damage (as in.. low), and anti-shield should be faster.
ok a spy maybe able to cap his rares. but his defence sucks, APU's do uber damage but again their defence sucks. PE's are in my eyes like slightly miniature more versatile tanks. they can hack / imp as well as be good fighters. i.e they have a wider range of skills. kind of like special forces. the tank should deal more damage and have a good defence. thats what the class is all about. tonnes of health and big guns. PE's can stealth, hack, snipe, use pistols well etc.
PE's can stealth, hack, snipe use pistols well etc. Again, that's what spies do, only they do it better. If a Tank really wanted to (probably melee tank), he could poke an mc5 chip with a spy3 boost.
Spies, with careful tweakage, can become almost exactly like a PE with more dex and int. Similar resists to a PE specing for high level weapons. And Spies can drug for shelter. So no, their defense doesn't suck, just the generic cookie cutter spy defense does. APUs.. granted, but how many APUs do you see running around without a PPU? That makes their defense better than a PEs, yet PEs hardly benefit from a PPU.
basically i dont think people want PE's nerfed or anything. its just when all the PEs come out whining about boosts to other classes (drones for example) it gets a little tiresome and everybody gets a little hot under the collar. PE's are a good well rounded class IMO.
I don't get why PEs complain about drones... PEs can be droners too if they really want to. :rolleyes: And yeah, they're kind of well rounded (except for utter uselessness in op wars), but not quite up to the "good" adjective yet. Only reason PEs can kill anyone is because of more skill, not a better class.
Edit: Now that I read that last quote again... PEs have a right to complain about boosts to other classes I think. I can't remember the last time PEs got a new toy or were buffed up. You always hear Monk'o'cron or Tank'o'cron and maybe even Spy'o'cron (lol) in DoY... but never PE'o'cron. Maybe it's because PE is 2 syllables, or maybe because the same argument will be used over and over to justify PEs being at the bottom, "they're JoATs".
i have a spy. pe. tank and apu
i prefer playing my droning spy atm, but i love my pe as he is hes fast tough and deals a decent amount of damage, my tank i refuse to play atm because im just adding to the already 90% population of tanks, and my apu is boring.
but on a serious note i dont think the private eye needs any changes, any one who says there under/ overpowerd is lying becuase there good as they are.
Originally posted by Dru Blood
but on a serious note i dont think the private eye needs any changes, any one who says there under/ overpowerd is lying becuase there good as they are.
:D
But they do suck compared to other classes combined with a PPU. Incase anyone else doesn't realize it, PEs derive about 1/3 of their defense from self-cast shelter and self-cast blessed deflector. Those are both about as strong as a foreign-cast holy shelter/deflector, according to tests by many different people. If a PPU comes around and buffs everyone, the PE's advantage of buffing herself is gone, and everyone ends up with higher defense than the PE.
•Super|\|ova•
27-02-04, 13:08
Originally posted by Varaem
[B]All tanks should not be able to move faster than walk speed with a cannon out [B]
Ehh... this has been ingame for ever already o_O Have you even played a tank?
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Ehh... this has been ingame for ever already o_O Have you even played a tank?
Yes.
I've seen (and played on) very fast tanks with their green-cannon-of-the-gods on their shoulders shooting people. It's kind of scary. Especially since I've seen them run faster than rifle PEs.
Originally posted by Dru Blood
but on a serious note i dont think the private eye needs any changes, any one who says there under/ overpowerd is lying becuase there good as they are.
I agree completely.
I have a capped PE.
People are always moaning about stealth basically because it deprives them of a kill.
I'll admit that is one of the reasons I use it, but not to deprive one person on a kill, but because when I PK at MB I soon find myself with half the CM faction chasing me around.
Thats not a challenge, thats a gangbang.
I stealth out of there (or maybe stay for a while taunting them :p ).
Then I see these same people complaining about stealth...
This is the faction that says there is no point in fighting BD because they are so outnumbered they have no chance. So why shouldn't I have a way to get away when I have no chance?
Although I can stealth it doesn't mean I'm going to get away.
A couple of days ago I had a tank follow me stealthed. He did a great job of chasing me, but unfortunately he didn't bring anyone else along with him.
He died, not because of my stealth, but because I beat him fairly 1 on 1. It could of gone either way.
Originally posted by Varaem
All tanks should not be able to move faster than walk speed with a cannon out, and should not be able to move at all while the firing animation is playing for their cannons.
A good PE has a fair chance against a tank as it is. I think if this was put in to place it would kill tanks again.
Although maybe as a cannon is so big and heavy they should be a little slower, but I have no problem with it staying as it is.
Originally posted by SynC_187
A good PE has a fair chance against a tank as it is. I think if this was put in to place it would kill tanks again.
Although maybe as a cannon is so big and heavy they should be a little slower, but I have no problem with it staying as it is.
Well not right now.. equal skill = dead PE.
But... that was me saying that if PEs have to be equal in all skills (like the manual says, omg), then the few lines about spies, tanks and monks.
Then again... some tanks just sit still and shoot people and still win, like kayne.
Edit: Going to sleep. Be back in a long time.
One on one a PE can take a tank, even if it takes a while. The tank can't stealth away and heal, so it's just a matter of time.
Likewise PE v APU, one on one an unbuffed APU has no chance, they'd be lucky to see the PE unstealthing and say 'hi' before they were genreping out.
Spy is a bit different, cos a spy that doesn't want to die can just olbiterate around the zone until their opponent GRs out from boredom.
But throw a PPU into the mix and what do you get...PE has no chance at all against tank backed by ppu, very low chance against an apu backed by ppu, and again the spy can take care of themselves (but with ppu buffs are slightly less likely to die when stealth bugs).
If the PE also has PPU support it's not very useful, as the PE is the only class that can't take down a rezzing PPU (unless the ppu sucks/screws up), so even if you kill the other attacker they'll be back on their feet eventually.
If I got my way -- which I won't; that'll please the power hungry ppus -- I'd make the ppu's spells twice as effective on self cast but half as effective when cast on someone else. Then perhaps who-has-the-most-ppus wouldn't be the #1 deciding factor in op wars (2nd to who has the most devourer tanks :p ).
Back on topic though, PE have one thing going for them above all other classes; they are perfect for taking down droner spies :)
Originally posted by MrChumble
If I got my way -- which I won't; that'll please the power hungry ppus -- I'd make the ppu's spells twice as effective on self cast but half as effective when cast on someone else. Then perhaps who-has-the-most-ppus wouldn't be the #1 deciding factor in op wars (2nd to who has the most devourer tanks :p ).
Back on topic though, PE have one thing going for them above all other classes; they are perfect for taking down droner spies :)
Ok I lied, I'll go to sleep after this.
Shields are already half as effective on others. Twice as effective on self cast = god mode ppus and highly buffed PEs, so I don't think so.
Yay! Kill droner spies! omg, that's such a useful skill! They can like, find the droner spy and damage boost them and shoot them with plasma pistols/rifles or just follow them and kill later!:lol:
Gulinborsti
27-02-04, 13:29
PE's are a good well rounded class
The problem is that when you try to make an allrounder PE you can not participate in OP fights or other PvP situations in an other role than a sniper or in RP environments eg. as tradeskiller.
The PE needs extrem specialisation to do anything else than PvM without getting highly frustated.
Still it's the most versatile and funniest class to play if you choose to make an allrounder PE, there's no class that can do so many things like:
use decent guns
drive nearly all vehicles
gun nearly all vehicles
hack everything
survive any PvM situation easily due to his PSI an CON abilities
use the lowest stealth tool
... all of this skills.
But this character style renders you useless for any player driven interaction.
•Super|\|ova•
27-02-04, 13:31
This thread seems to have all kind of crap talk in it. "PEs can't take out a rezzing PPU"... "PEs are underpowered" yada yada yaa...
FFS PPL!!! Lets take an example.. There's millions of threads about PPUs being overpowered and at the same time there are threads about how mean dev is for a PPU, there are threads about how PEs are better than tanks and at the same time there are threads like this! Think for a few seconds and you'll realize that it means these classes are almost completely balanced when ppl whine about the both sides on them. Get it???? o_O
I meant half as effective as they currently are :)
I don't see a problem with near-immortal PPUs if they can't do any damage (although para spells should do a token 1 damage point so you get soullight hits). I guess it depends how much they change the devourer, but my general feeling is a ppu should be less effective re keeping others alive than they are now.
Killing droner spies may not seem like much of a good thing unless you happen to be the droner spy and know theres a PE stalking you... :)
PEs dont need a nerf, leave us alone.
[edit]
One on one a PE can take a tank, even if it takes a while. The tank can't stealth away and heal, so it's just a matter of time.
Likewise PE v APU, one on one an unbuffed APU has no chance, they'd be lucky to see the PE unstealthing and say 'hi' before they were genreping out.
Firstly I've killed alot of PEs with my apu when I was by myself and unbuffed, sometimes oyuo get lucky, sometimes they do something dumb & sometimes they're just bad.
Secondly I've killed alot of PEs on my Tank and I barely even play him (hey i even killed sam3000 last night ONOZ i needz d pokez :().
Yes there is certain situations where you are just plain boned, Thomas A. Anderson got me in the GR room at MB with a ROLH and loads of nibs standing around or generally getting in the way which meant I was boned I might of hit him once with my FA.
Every class has its advantages and disadvantages, give me some open space and a decent CQFA/toxic beam and I'll happily take on any PE that thinks using a stealth 1 on 1 with an APU is a good idea.
DangerousDaze
27-02-04, 13:55
Originally posted by Varaem
I swear.
The next time I hear (read) someone say that private eyes are supposed to be Jack of All Trades (JoATs) and should be JoATs, I'm going to commit ritual suicide by stabbing myself in the stomach.
Okay, PEs are to some extent... /me calls for an ambulance and gets out the mop and bucket. ;)
DD
Pe's seem fine to me, but only the stealth pe whores annoying me tho...
altho i agree with the original thread,
I must point out that even now, if a PE is skilled properly, and is good at PVP (as in, never misses), then the PE can still mop the floor with ANY tank/spy/APU/Hybrid
I have to add my comment :D
REMOVE LEVEL 1 STEALTH - entirely.
Give PE's something else - just get rid of those damn stealther PE's.
Originally posted by L0KI
REMOVE LEVEL 1 STEALTH - entirely.
Give PE's something else - just get rid of those damn stealther PE's.
8 mm Spirit Bullet Mod would be nice :D
I had an idea time ago that was intended to allow PE's to avoid specialization issues. Would be nice that PE's could be proficient in many areas at the same time without hindering their combat skills.
As one of those true JOAT PE's, I regularly make use of Stealth 2 to make up for my reduced combat skills. I have to admit that I although really like it, there is no doubt that I could learn to live without it.. after all, I managed ok before the stealth tools were introduced. The question I find myself asking, however, is should I really have to live without it? Despite numerous threads on the subject, I don’t recall seeing a single sound reason why PE's shouldn't get to play with stealth. The fact that it pisses people off because they are denied a kill is not a reason, and any use of the stealth tool (however annoying) is IMHO just "playing smart" .. or in my case, “playing safe”
JOAT or not, the other classes just have to learn to share their toys - PE's are fine as they are :D
for me it comes down to the one thing with pes... they require more work (well not to lvl and set up).
Im just lazy and most other chars do better than pes... for the record anything outside op fights dont count in my book :P
The thing is JOAT spies work way better.
Let's see a spy can be
a constructer/researcher
a hacker/implant
a driver
a repairer
and still back pretty good damage at 2-3 stars combat rank with a disruptor or so....
a PE can't do all these things without gimping his damage to obivion, so the PE is essentially a pure RC/PC combat class, the way KK has given us.
I disagree the removal of stealth though, its what makes a PE different from a tank...
I mean really, what's so horrible about PEs that you cry nerf?
they can run like mad so you can't hit them, they can use high end pistols very very well to deal damage, they can use stealth to heal and find spots from which to recover, and they can buff up the wazoo --- with slotted blessed deflector and shelters they are extremely tough. it's not uncommon to hit them with energy wepons (yes, I did hit them, I saw both the deflector and shelter shields light up) and get NO DAMAGE rolling off --- yes, that's no damage at all kiddies.
with stelth, PEs are the ultimate raider. with ppu support, apus and tanks are.
yes, at neofrag they are at a disadvantage - without time to buff and heal they do go down.
am i crying nerf? no. do they have to work for it? buffing, thinking, stealthing - yes. but make no mistake, stealthing tech pistol PEs are veeery tough.
umm i'm a rifle PE so I would't know one of the big reasons for using pistols..
Originally posted by greploco
with slotted blessed deflector and shelters they are extremely tough.
Well I counter this quote with this one :
Originally posted by VetteroX
just to clear something up, shelter damage on tl 25 shelter self cast doesnt seem to matter... i tested with many diff guns, 250% - high 300's % shelter, and there was absolutely no difference in damage... I tried the tl 32 group shelter too and there was no diff there either, store bought or 3 slot, i took the same damage every time.
it's not uncommon to hit them with energy wepons (yes, I did hit them, I saw both the deflector and shelter shields light up) and get NO DAMAGE rolling off --- yes, that's no damage at all kiddies
That seems to be a newer bug. In the last weeks it happened very often that I got hit by e.g. Chaos Creeper/Queen, my health went down and 3-5 seconds afterwards up again. Didn't happen everytime, but often enough.
Especially when the Queen hits me my health goes down to almost 20 and then up again to full o_O. And my deflector/shelter I had on also lighted up... so thats a (new) bug.
Clive tombstone
27-02-04, 19:27
Well, lets make this interesting then, We all know about the new ammo mod "AKA the shield-breaker" ammo, Why not limit the ammo mods to Pistols, assault rifles and Sniper rifles, Making PE's the new ANTI PPU, then that would make them usefull in OP wars wouldnt it? so lets say, Crap They got 3 PPUs comming with "Insert Stupid # of tanks here :D " Have any PE's and spys there with there "anti monk guns :D " and have them Hunt down the bastards like the Telekenetic dogs they are. BOOM Balanced PvP for PE's
Dribble Joy
27-02-04, 19:29
Originally posted by L0KI
REMOVE LEVEL 1 STEALTH - entirely.
Give PE's something else - just get rid of those damn stealther PE's.
I concur.
Flightbelts!!!!
Originally posted by Clive tombstone
Well, lets make this interesting then, We all know about the new ammo mod "AKA the shield-breaker" ammo, Why not limit the ammo mods to Pistols, assault rifles and Sniper rifles, Making PE's the new ANTI PPU, then that would make them usefull in OP wars wouldnt it? so lets say, Crap They got 3 PPUs comming with "Insert Stupid # of tanks here :D " Have any PE's and spys there with there "anti monk guns :D " and have them Hunt down the bastards like the Telekenetic dogs they are. BOOM Balanced PvP for PE's
Sounds really nice. Although balancing that ammo mod for pistols could make some problems :(
I remember the time when no deflector was available... that was nice :)
KramerTheWeird
27-02-04, 20:12
Varaem, unwritten rule: Never post a thread about complaining about nerf/balance threads as it will soon become a nerf/balance thread itself.
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
Varaem, unwritten rule: Never post a thread about complaining about nerf/balance threads as it will soon become a nerf/balance thread itself.
Yeah, I never read that unwritten rule... o_O
Think about that for a moment.
Anyway... hi! I'm at school right now. I should be doing homework but I'm bored.
p.s. PEs aren't JoATs, never have been and never will be. The closest thing I've seen is Kramer's HC/Drive/Repair/Hack setup, but that's kinda odd.
I want jetpacks for my PE.
Originally posted by Duder
I want jetpacks for my PE.
Me too...
but then, would anti-aircraft missile lauchers do like 200 damage to us? :eek:
PEs are so fast PEs can outrun these APE (Anti-PE) missiles, with their massive amounts of athletics & agility, and PEs could deflect the missiles with their capped Blessed Deflectors and their eternal everlasting capped Shelters, and if things went wrong and the PE did get hit they have massive resists and health, causing minimal damage, much better defense then gentanks!!! As shelters last forever, this makes the PEs defense much better then the gentank always, not 2 minutes, but 3 billion years.
Jetpack would be sweet. :D
Yeah take away stealth from PEs and give us Jetpacks.
Are you silly Judge? Jetpacks are technical items and should be exclusively used by spies only.
no we are not silly, you think the spy can pull the Gs lol, tanks would be too heavy because their ass too big. Spies are too weak for jetpacks, besides they are getting holovests :)
Clive tombstone
28-02-04, 00:41
Soo. The PE "Anti-monk gun Idea is out?
seems pretty good, I admit the Jetpacks sound pretty sweet, what COULD be better is when DoY comes, They could make Firing ports on the Hover carrier or something so you could take potshots at whatever :D
PEs should get self destructing bombs implanted in their brains. Everytime they try to go to an op fight or fight a dev tank or etc it will detonate and save them the frustration.
Clive tombstone
28-02-04, 01:27
ROFLMAO:D
5 stars
Originally posted by suler
PEs should get self destructing bombs implanted in their brains. Everytime they try to go to an op fight or fight a dev tank or etc it will detonate and save them the frustration.
Haha. A set of 500 bombs for me pls.
nice one!
Make sure you put enought explosive to blow the nearby tank now that you are at it :p
Clive tombstone
28-02-04, 06:47
Clive tombstone day dreams...(Sees a PE Dragging his head allong, witha Large a-bomb attached to it. Then a Dev tank walks up,Screen turns white :D )
TheGreatMilenko
28-02-04, 09:34
Originally posted by Varaem
I swear.
The next time I hear (read) someone say that private eyes are supposed to be Jack of All Trades (JoATs) and should be JoATs, I'm going to commit ritual suicide by stabbing myself in the stomach.
oooooo can i watch:D
Originally posted by Varaem
All spies should not be able to wear any armor and get any resist over 25 (excluding xray from their PA).
All tanks should not be able to move faster than walk speed with a cannon out, and should not be able to move at all while the firing animation is playing for their cannons.
Monks... should be ... balanced. omg. There's a concept.
I'd like all these a whole lot, but I'm not a PE... I like 'S' words trebeck.
tbh just give LoTech PE's a new viable gun and i'll be happy,
Liberator is okish but a little hard to aim, not too bad tho after you get used to it but apparently its getting crap after next patch
Wyatt Earp is fun fun fun and i've been using it a lot lately, but i can hit every shot and still will do half the damage of my opponent
Mumblyfish
28-02-04, 12:21
Spies are the Jacks of All Trades. They have the greatest option for diversity, and setups differ WILDLY. Most, if not all, of the non-cookie-cutter setups I've seen are spies. Heavy combat spies, hybrid spies, driving spies, kamikaze spies...
Shadow Dancer
28-02-04, 12:41
Originally posted by Kal
tbh just give LoTech PE's a new viable gun and i'll be happy,
Liberator is okish but a little hard to aim, not too bad tho after you get used to it but apparently its getting crap after next patch
Wyatt Earp is fun fun fun and i've been using it a lot lately, but i can hit every shot and still will do half the damage of my opponent
O_o
Why would the lib get nerfed?
Also, I just realized, I can't thikn of any lowtech pistol that's higher than the lib.
Is their any?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
O_o
Why would the lib get nerfed?
Also, I just realized, I can't thikn of any lowtech pistol that's higher than the lib.
Is their any?
1. no idea, vet found it out on the test server
2. there arn.t any
Gatlin pistol rare would be nice ffs
would make some sense
Chris Redfield
28-02-04, 15:55
Yes give us a rare gatling pistol !!!
One will resemble to anarchists :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Why would the lib get nerfed?
Most rare weapons got an unintended boost in damage the last patch. Lupus is undoing this at the same time he balances all weapons' TLs and damages.
Lib therefore has its damage reduced compared with retail FOR NOW... none of the changes are yet to hit retail, Lupus is still working on it.
The state of weapons on the test server currently will not carry over to retail in its current form. The current test patch is a fact finding test patch to obtain info on weapon damages, so that the damage can be balanced in the next few before going retail when they're ready.
The main reason why Lib is looking underpowered on test atm is because it's TL91, and it's a pistol. TL91 makes it the second lowest TL rare outside of melee weapons. It's also a pistol, which ranks its damage lower than rifles, cannons and APU modules of the same TL. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that it won't do as much damage as a TL93 Pain Easer, or a TL105 Cursed Soul.
Dribble Joy
29-02-04, 02:19
Originally posted by Chris Redfield
Yes give us a rare gatling pistol !!!
One will resemble to anarchists :D
Spitfire will be tl 84 next patch.
Chris Redfield
29-02-04, 05:58
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Spitfire will be tl 84 next patch.
Nice :D
Now will remain to see the changes carrying out on the weapons damages.
Looms in prospect...
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