View Full Version : [Saturn] Two-Toned Map.
I remember about 5 months ago. TG was going down, but still held thier own in the canyons. TT was beggining to move out from the city. Citymercs held thier usual amount of ops. Then Cartel was formed under black dragon, which was a nearly dead faction with the exception of the Blood Titan's, who didn't seem to play very much and never attacked outposts. Blood Titan's were a big clan, tehy were just a sleeping giant...who got woken up and are now a strong force.
Most of us who first joined cartel had one agenda in mind: take twilight guardian off the map. For us, the faction had been ruined by certain clans. We knew the mercs would give us problems, but we were prepared to try and ignore them until TG was gone. Honestly, I figured TG would put up a huge fight. I thaught it would take months on end for TG to cripple. I was wrong. For the first two or three weeks, we faught long and hard with TG for tescom and syncon. These were our only targets to start out, we wanted to be able to hold these two outposts from TG and begin moving out. After about two weeks we decided to move in on cajun/soliko/eastgate. We did, and we secured the area.
I still remember the final day. TG was discouraged at us taking the north-east of the map and them not being able to get it back. TT began moving from the south, we reacted and moved from the north, making TG extinct on the map. Its as it TG threw in the towel that day. They didn't try anymore. For a few weeks, TG didn't attack a single outpost. Since then, they have tried, but fail to take control of any ops outside of Grant for more then a few hours at a time. Lately, they hvae not been attacking at all, even last weekend we didn't recieve a single attack from them, just a few skirmished from the extremely under-numbered FA.
Our goal was never to take the mercs off the map. But the mercs trash talked BD alot, talking about it only lasting a month, and other such mocks. Because of this, the mercs eventually REALLY got under our skin. For the past 2 months we have put up HEAVY fronts on the mercs, and they have held thier ops in a much better display of willpower then TG ever did. They never broke, when they lost territory, they did what they had to to get it back. They regularly assaulted BD-territory ops. Until the last two weeks. Its although all of a sudden CM have thrown in the towel. Multiple CityMercs have told me that they would not be focusing on outposts anymore.
The map is now two-tone. As cartel members in black dragon, we started out with one simple agenda, which grew into two agendas or goals. Our first goal, make TG extinct. With the combined forces of TT and BD this goal was met even though FA had TG's back. Our second goal was to make CM extinct. This we had to do on our own, and because FA was bitter at us taking thier friends the TG off the map, they put up resistance with CM. Even still, we managed to finally crack them so it seems. Some CM have gone TG, some have gone tsunami. The rest are still CM, but they are very few in numbers compared to what they were beforehand.
We have met our two goals, defending is always an advantage. The hardest and most fun part of op fighting is trying to GAIN ground. There is no more ground to gain, our friends in south keep it under control, and we keep the north under control. All we have to do now is cover our outposts during the day, and hack back ops that are taken over night when we cannot defend. Either way, neither is a difficult task.
Ive been thinking all night what BD/TT can do to spice up Saturn. TT could always declare war on BD, which would make it EXTREMELY hard for BD considering TT can call on CA and CM to help them, and BD has no one to call for help against the TT forces. Because of this, TT are in an untouchable position, whereas BD *could* be vaulnerable. But what would that solve? Taking the world map from two colors to only ONE color? I honestly doubt that TT would want that.
Im looking for feedback from Saturn players, preferably clanned. What can be done on saturn to break this outpost monopoly? I go onto other servers, and see multiple colors on the map, sometimes 6+, somtimes 4 or 5. But always more then two. From what I can gather, this will not change without some sort of intervention. Sure, FA/TG will takeops here and there, so will CA and CM....but at the end of the day, the map will stay two-toned.
What can be done now to turn Saturn's Outpost scene back into an action packed one?
Well i can say Tsunami is growing on saturn, maybe it can be the next big faction. Yes there are acutally clans popping up there ;)
I just think tsunami and fallen angels need some time to get into the op scene or in the big pvp picture, anyway i hope so.
Originally posted by Sefran
Well i can say Tsunami is growing on saturn, maybe it can be the next big faction. Yes there are acutally clans popping up there ;)
I just think tsunami and fallen angels need some time to get into the op scene or in the big pvp picture, anyway i hope so.
Maybe tsunami will grow, and become friends with TG and FA (they allied?) that could turn into something possibly...
Both neutral towards FA and TG (i dont think any ts even likes TG, who would...i helped them yesterday against a canyon raid from bd and they attack me). Maybe a FA & TS allience against BD later might prove from or FA & TS (most lickely not the childish tg factoin u cant work with them) against TT & BD (i know TT is looking for enemies they dont seem to have one). Can almost see if tsunami would become big they would fight ts aswell since what else to fight?
I must say excellent post gort and very mature about it, its refreshing to see here :)
Ok here is my take on saturn having played there for a few months now, I was in ND very shortly, they was the at the height of their power, I left coz i wanted a challenge, went to TT "templars" and they was just about moving over the map at that time. Now given the history of TG since then and certain clan/s moving in and making it a mess, many left TG, this is what made it weak, and thus increasing its enemies.
Now over the past month or so, BD became a lot stronger "mostly X-TG's" and TT grew some more and took control of the southern end. BD took away TG ops up the north and in the state TG was in having 2 big enemies against them there was no way they was going to win, I know as in the end i went back to TG after leaving TT, I tried with TG to make it work, but of course not only was there BD/TT on their backs, but a lot of infaction fighting was going on, so no wonder they lost it all.
As to CM, well they was strong for a bit, but i hear what a lot of people are saying these days todo with outpost wars, its pointless, to many problems related to outposts to even bother to take them and hold them, sure it can be done, but its wasted energy as far as im concerned, so this maybe why BD hold the north and TT hold the south.
Also bear in mind that a combined force of the 2 biggest clans on saturn against anyone is to much to take, the last fight i was in was the one at Dev fortress, "cartel/bloottitans/templars" there was no way TG could hold it, even with FA help, the fight lasted hours but TG lost it in the end.
I'm not TG anymore, i've gone Crahn and am loving it, stress free too :) and i was in TG canyon last night, BD raid on the place and laughed my arse off at certain TG clan dying.
TG atm is a mess, hells elite seem to be attacking their own, attacking ASEN, and ASEN are attacking everyone TG :mad:
So is it any wonder they are extinct?
I think for the map to change again will take action from those who own the ops right now, Cartel and Templars have grown to a state where no one can touch them, TT have a lot of allies in the city and the only place they will get attacked from is TG/FA/Bio and none of these will do it.
BD have TG/FA/CM and TS to fight, but again the only real threat there is CM, and as you can see thats gone.
I would suggest taking a step back and looking at your goals, you have no filled the primary one, removing a certain clan from the server, you may have removed their ops, but they are still about in your old TG home, creating much problems for everyone linked to or around TG, maybe instead of taking over the map you could perform more raids on TG itself, you know its possible, TT do it often enough.
Just remember though that most Crahn are allied/neutral and while im lvling i would like not to be killed by BD or TT :lol:
I'm having to much fun right now to get invloved in op wars, op fights these days are shit in the state pvp is in compared to a year ago.
im hopeing that DRE will start to enter the OP war they now have some good skilled fighters on there side and with a little org. they could cause some problems.
with CM now not realy bothering (well for the mo. atleast) and TG just camping Grant who will try to take on BD?
I hope FA will all they do is sit in TH making guns, they also have "some" skilled players so why not use them?
Why don't members of Cartel & Blood Titans and Templars split up and join the big clans on other factions?
If enough high level PvP'ers move around to support the smaller factions then there's no reason why the map cannot belong to 5 or 6 factions.
Anyway, haven't thought about this too much at the mo, i'm late for uni. Will post later
nice story but
tg has no interest in the ops, thats the point, becaused theres no sense in holding ops, its only for guys ho need a big wiener
and winning a fight with lame zergattacks isnt glorios, its lame.
fact for me is that many highskilled runners in tg and fa but they cant win a fight against 2 zerging factions. in the beginning i helped bd sometimes because there was only bd in a realistic count of runners but now, na tanks, never more. i dislike zerg dudes extremly, cm was the same in the past.
Original monk
26-02-04, 11:27
keep it ingame ?
this is yust cartel propaganda ...
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
I must say excellent post gort and very mature about it, its refreshing to see here :)
This fellow read my post.
Originally posted by Original monk
[B]keep it ingame ?
this is yust cartel propaganda ...
This fellow didn't.
Please i encourage ALL of you fellow forum users....read before posting, to avoid looking like the fool.
:)
Hi all,
the last weeks (months) showed me one thing:
You cant hold ops/win op wars if you fight on your own.
Always you need allies ... the reason is the overhelming force opponents show currently during an op fight.
Thats something i strongly dislike. It slows things down ... and you become unflexible if you have to rely on allies.
If you hack an op there are only two possible reactions:
-nobody comes
-a $§$%&/! horde of players come (after a long, long time)
People have now two choices; to form a mega-clan/alliance or to say goodbye to the op business.
That should be changed ......
@zone: In my opinion the only ones who could change this are the leading factions/clans. So i have to say that you are responsible for your situation. Dont ask others what they could do. YOU are in the position to change something (at least its easier for you than for us).
Nevertheless i will attack bd every evening when i am online. i will never give up .... :p
with kind regards
Dai
Original monk
26-02-04, 11:34
Originally posted by g0rt
This fellow didn't.
Please i encourage ALL of you fellow forum users....read before posting, to avoid looking like the fool.
:)
i may look like a fool now but:
after reading this post again i say:
this is yust cartel propaganda...
Originally posted by Daigotsu
@zone: In my opinion the only ones who could change this are the leading factions/clans. So i have to say that you are responsible for your situation. Dont ask others what they could do. YOU are in the position to change something (at least its easier for you than for us).
I never asked what htey can do, I asked what can be done.... on my end or other peoples end. I never specified WHO has to do what.
@original - if you don't like it, stop trolling my thread and simply put me on ignore or leave the thread and stop posting. the thread was not started for bullshit posts like yours, again...if you dont like it simply reply to OTHER posts and ignore this one. a moderator has been informed of this trolling crap.
Originally posted by Original monk
this is yust cartel propaganda...
na
its zerg propaganda :D
lets play starcraft, there zergs have names ^^
I really think DRE is gonna start moving some... seen more and more of em running around in the wastes causing some sorta trouble or another... givem some time zone...
or we all could just petition to move to anarchy breed :D
I've been on saturn since January 2003 and there have been a lot of changes. When i was in BETA (BT) had some great fights vs. TG clans, we even managed to hold Eastgate for a few weeks :D but i think the OP status' is fucked now.
It's been said so many times but there are just too many factions, it's too complicated. (well, maybe not for TT/BD but ...)
How can u change it then , most ppl in saturn are just bandwagon hoppers, they see bd grow so they all jump on that faction wich leaves about nothing left in the faction they are leaving, so mega clans are formed wich ruin the game like ND, now BD, TT is such a mega clan aswell sigh...
Seems ppl are afraid to put efford in a faction who hasnt really become big yet i mean cmon, look at BD not a person in it some old nd's go to form cartel and booom all wanne good BD....what a show of weakness sigh..
Myself went tsunami i hope others will 2 and it will grow in time, some challanges have to come on Saturn cause the 2-stoned map sux idd...Used to be all ND but its nothing better now since BD and TT arnt even hostile to each other...
I just hope some ppl gonne try to change something just insteed of hopping to the strongest faction instant and yelling ''we pwn uuu , uu nib oh plz....''
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 11:49
the problem u have is half of saturn suck the biggest factions cock - bascially
a new faction gets big, the faction hoppers run there, and this is what has happend to BD recently
When trying to fight them, you get a huge amount of numbers - sometimes pathetic amounts, half of the people i see there were not BD until a month ago - most were TG (the previous favoured faction)
bascially - some BD a pure BD (zoneseek, blade, lemon) but others just jump on the band wagon. If you want to help the server then simply leave the BD faction, its over populated and stupildy biased right now
i'm CM through and through, and we are not 'pussies' so to speak. At the moment, we are trying to get RP back into the game, and give CM what KK refused to give us - the role of a merc. Small clans hiring us, people asking us for jobs to kill certain runners etc. If the price is right, then we will do it
Yes, DRE is rising, i know some people making up a new clan to help it out, and also TSU are coming up in the world, but at the end of the day, some BD have to leave that faction, possibly the ones that care about the server?
EDIT:
the same thing happend with new dawn - but they refused to split, which was the problem. Eventually they did - and TG stopped doing anything, so BD come up and now they own the map - with double any faction (yes, its true, please dont deny it) and everyone is just really annoyed
i looked on uranus yesterday - such a nice map, so if people want it like that some HAVE to leave BD and join some factions with pretty colours :p
and fuck the faction hoppers - there should be some type of penalty on them
Yea its pretty annoying, everytime i go to crp cave there shit loads of noob BD's leveling trying to join cartel or bloodtitans :(
I grew up in the canyon, way before all this
I can understand how the current state of affairs came about
but it just doesn't feel right for TG to not own the northeast, gives me the crawling buggers sometimes, as I said though - I can understand why BD pushed TG
I think that the only way to fight cartel is to make a big clan from all bd hostiles, 'cause the CM surrender proved that force of 1 faction cant fight cartel and co. this time.
addendum:
now that things are as they are --- the faction hopping to BD is getting a little excessive, and annoying as the young BDs heads can be more than a little inflated
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:01
Originally posted by Dookie
I think that the only way to fight cartel is to make a big clan from all bd hostiles, 'cause the CM surrender proved that force of 1 faction cant fight cartel and co. this time.
it's not called surrendering - its called role play, this game is apparently a MMORPG, but even trade is full of insulting twats
we, as CM, are trying to make it more RP
After 6 months of op fighting words " we will not fight for ops any more, we choose role play" looks like tottal surrender to stronger enemy. u can name it whetever u want.
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:07
aye, 6months of it, we did our job, but its time for a change
you might realise once your faction gets something done - but really, it gets broing after the same thing all day every day
Original monk
26-02-04, 12:09
Originally posted by g0rt
a moderator has been informed of this trolling crap.
i especially kept my post short instead of started arguing this and that ... cause thats useless anyway ... you wonna call it trolling, fine by me ...
but ok, if you call the cops then im outta here ...
... littlebit busy at work also so i wont get bored anyway :)
my opinion on this post stays the same tough, cause i still didnt got prove of the contrary ...
enjoy posting the forums and playing the game
edit: as for muting someone: i never muted someone in my life .. ok 1 exception being spike 2 ingame on saturn .. but thats it :) and ffcourse i like to hear you talking so muting you ? no chance :)
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 12:10
Originally posted by Range
nice story but
tg has no interest in the ops, thats the point, becaused theres no sense in holding ops, its only for guys ho need a big wiener
and winning a fight with lame zergattacks isnt glorios, its lame.
fact for me is that many highskilled runners in tg and fa but they cant win a fight against 2 zerging factions. in the beginning i helped bd sometimes because there was only bd in a realistic count of runners but now, na tanks, never more. i dislike zerg dudes extremly, cm was the same in the past.
and this fela didnt understand it at all.
what the hell u talking about, we zerg.
there was few times that combined forces of Cartel/titans zerg the oposing forces (FEW TIMES).
Most of the times it was only TT/CA one side and BD (Cartel and TItans ) on the other side.
Rare were the times that these 2 forces combined
On contarire mon ami, there was always Crhan, PP, TG, FA, so what u talking about zerging.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - clan flaming ]
i THINK this is one of those keep it in game threads.
Especially now DG has arrived
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 12:17
Originally posted by L0KI
i THINK this is one of those keep it in game threads.
Especially now DG has arrived
:rolleyes: its just me or anyone else sense the bad smell around here ??
not goin to reply to u anymore kuz this thread has been polite untill u arrive and i dont want it closed
DestructionUK
26-02-04, 12:18
really i think the best fix is for templars to chaneg faction to a dead one like next or somthing and either blood titans or cartel t change faction to TS.
share the wealth and there could be some very interesting OP situations, two tone can become very mono tone
Imo if ca would grow the op scene could be way more interesting... If u take away BD nothing left for TS :/
Besides CA has alot of enemies i dont understand why no1 wanne play the faction its great really.
Originally posted by DestructionUK
really i think the best fix is for templars to chaneg faction to a dead one like next or somthing and either blood titans or cartel t change faction to TS.
share the wealth and there could be some very interesting OP situations, two tone can become very mono tone
??
its the same shi* in yellow ...
one time zerg, everytime zerg
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:28
DG - its known you do ruin threads :p
as for the problem, TSU are rising so i wouldnt go there, it'll just be the next big faction
the problem you have is this:
say some cartel left to join biotech and make a clan, then the other cartel (the un-skilled ones who are there for the ride, to look good etc) follow them. Blood titans wouldnt want to fight alone, they follow, and then there go the faction hoppers.
End of the day, people follow the others because they know they can't do it without them
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 12:28
Originally posted by DestructionUK
two tone can become very mono tone
thats why this thread was made.
i wish others did like we Cartel did a few months ago
organize them selves
Saturn still has many ppl playing and latelly ive seen some true nibs, new blood.
Cartel is not goin to leave BD, period.
sometimes i mock on strych9, but he is one of the few smart, they are making a planed clan, gettin it organized (so he says, but i believe in him, i just like to mock so bad :D )
Best balance in my point of view that a big clan would move to CA.
This thread is to discuss how the balance of power on Saturn may be re-distributed amongst the factions in order to introduce variation and new conflict. It is not a thread for slagging off the clans that make up the existing power base.
N
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:31
Originally posted by Devils Grace
Cartel is not goin to leave BD, period.
is that from your point of view or all of cartels?
tbh, sooner or later when 99% of the server have faction hopped, you will get bored of not being able to insult anyone :p
If a certain faction doesnt have any enemies at all anymore its no sence to keep there.
But if CA could grow BD would have enemies and it would also have a chance to let factions grow like Tsunami and Crahn (wich can have a good bit of rp), so every1 would be happy and new factions could arise aswell.
Ive been in tanget myself , very nice and mature ppl but there faction sucks tbh now...they would be better off CA and every1 would have more fun and a more interesting op scene etc....
Originally posted by Devils Grace
ill give u an exemple
lack of skill
if u guyz have any doubts just press F9.
there was a battle 2 days ago against some fa, first only titans, later joined cartel and tt
hm, few the count of active players on other factions/clans and then on on bd/tt (the winning team joiner), then few the count of players on open opfights (not this soliko campin sh*t), ive seen more then one time more bd/tt/bio on fights then the oponents. fact for me is bd/tt out of skillz, they only have numbers
k, navray and now ?
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 12:38
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
is that from your point of view or all of cartels?
tbh, sooner or later when 99% of the server have faction hopped, you will get bored of not being able to insult anyone :p
for now its my point of view and all the rest of Cartel
but i cant say that 100%
but unless sometin like totally crazy happens, wich i cant even think of one single thing, Cartel will stay BD.
For exemple u Digest, u are a good leader why not organize the remaining CM that are truly CM, organize a big CM clan instead of having 3 or 4 small clans, with dificult of comunitcation.
that would be sweet, and put some pretty good fights, and balance the game..
Why do u ppl bother about DG he is talking about in game situations all the time , this is not the fucking point of who has skill or organisation ffs....
Talk about the real problem not about ingame skirmiches every time...:confused:
I was waiting for a post like this...was always going to happen....
Goes to show a lot of people don't have back bone, or lack leadership qualities.
I admit I am a tangent ... but have been since day 1 ...with exception of some epics then came back. Its sad ... Leader says I am going to BD .. and does just that ... what happens the whole clan, plus extras take up and go... Other factions (FA) See this and pick up and go to....
The reason why BD ... is simple as this ... It is still easy to get into DOY as BD as they are a allied faction. Yet you can screw over the faction that served you well....
What I really dont understand is why the Bigger clans of tangent and Cm fight amongst each other ... and help their allied enemies to prosper.
4 Months time and DOY Comes along and massive jump ship again. Then all of a sudden the TT clans who helped BD get strong...Hold ops and fight CM are gonna be fighting these same people. While the CM clans who put FA before TT , now fight the same FA's as BD will have a similar problem...
Open your eyes .....
But yes ... BD have killed TG ... But Wait its the same people who were making TG that have moved to BD .... so that means nothing... Just looks like These TG's could not take the heat from both CM and TT and so have moved out to find life easier ...
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:41
Originally posted by Devils Grace
for now its my point of view and all the rest of Cartel
but i cant say that 100%
but unless sometin like totally crazy happens, wich i cant even think of one single thing, Cartel will stay BD.
For exemple u Digest, u are a good leader why not organize the remaining CM that are truly CM, organize a big CM clan instead of having 3 or 4 small clans, with dificult of comunitcation.
that would be sweet, and put some pretty good fights, and balance the game..
At the moment we are ok DG - we will cotinue to fight you im sure :)
WE are also trying to help some smaller city factions into OP wars, but that will take a few weeks
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 12:44
Originally posted by Crest
But yes ... BD have killed TG ... But Wait its the same people who were making TG that have moved to BD .... so that means nothing... Just looks like These TG's could not take the heat from both CM and TT and so have moved out to find life easier ...
yes, and TT have stayed TT and not moved factions - so they dont have to fight BD and TG, so life is easier
If you got rid of ASEN, then TG would actually be able to function normally and might offer you guys some resistance. But as it stands, ASEN is crippling TG by causing nothing but trouble. Maybe everyone possible should declare universal war on ASEN and ruin their lives until they move servers or disband.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 12:46
Originally posted by Sefran
Why do u ppl bother about DG he is talking about in game situations all the time , this is not the fucking point of who has skill or organisation ffs....
Talk about the real problem not about ingame skirmiches every time...:confused:
yes it is
and i always have defended this
why having Clans with 4 or 5 ppl, why not these 5 ppl get together with all other clans in the same faction and make a big fighting clan ?
unless all they want to do is hunting, roleplay, socialize, and in that way they cant complain about not having a chance of doin sometin...
in that way i understand what CM are doin...
Yeah try to make that clear to ppl FA is ruined by all zillions of little clans....
Make your own enemy, ie change to a different faction with a few runners only, not like 50. Don't recruit there. Fight alone. Have fun in a good team and kick ass.
As soon as the faction hoppers join that faction, wait till it is really really big.. then change to an enemy faction.
Rinse, Repeat.
Works. :)
Maybe if BD/TT gave up some OPs and allowed other factions to fight over them until another faction ruled over those and started to grow... have BD/TT stay out of the fight as it where and watch and see what happens.
simple fix.
If the leader of Cartel feels the same way as g0rt there. Kick every member and delete the clan.
Make them fend for themselves and hopefully they'll split off to different factions and maybe balance things out again.
Im sure theres a few members that would rather be the "top-dog" or clan leader by now (youve been going a while now right?)
so do that and give them the chance.
Ok, its a bit extreme and all, but ya never know, it might work.
Either that or sit down and discuss with your closest friends and decide where youre going and what you want to do, and do it.
You might end up warring with other friends or those who didnt want to join YOUR party, but in the end, its all for the fun and good of the game. You can always sit back with a beer and laugh about it with them later.
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 13:04
or people that have the balls to try something new leave BD :p
im sure if u get all the faction hoppers together u got about a clan of 100+
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 13:04
Originally posted by Elric
simple fix.
If the leader of Cartel feels the same way as g0rt there. Kick every member and delete the clan.
g0rt is the leader of Cartel
and why should we that made and planed a clan for a month should split to give others a chance ?
i dont get ur thinking
why should templares that have taken months to make a big and organized clan, should split to give others a chance
:confused: :rolleyes:
Theres only about 30 real cartel the rest are all alts.
ive seen CA clans with alot of members that do jack shit except trying to rule pp.
If DoY ever comes out it might throw a monkey wrench into the OP situation... then again it might not. :p
Really the only viable suggestion I can see would be to choose about 6 or 7 OPs that are near one another and TT/BD just let em go and wait to see the outcome, once a faction has a certain amount of OPs under its belt it might attract more blood and become a contender...
Originally posted by Devils Grace
g0rt is the leader of Cartel
and why should we that made and planed a clan for a month should split to give others a chance ?
i dont get ur thinking
why should templares that have taken months to make a big and organized clan, should split to give others a chance
:confused: :rolleyes:
Because, by the sounds of his post, he is pissed and bored with the situation its in.
You dont get my thinking because your not thinking about it long enough. If he wants to keep Cartel going, then fine. Let him, Kick the faction hoppers and bandwagoners and tell them to piss off. Keep the clan as trusted friends and decent people rather than the bandwagon crew.
Hell, wipe the clan and start a NEW cartel.
Like i said, its extreme, but sounds as if it needs extreme measures to fix too :p
:edit:
And big deal if templars toiok months to make an big organized clan.
If i could persuade the friends i had to come with me on Pluto to make a clan, It'd be big n organized in a matter of days.
Thats an inconsiquential point your make.
Organisation takes a good crew to organize. Get a good crew to dtart with and there wont be any problems.
Ca clans in PP since when? CA always been a dead faction when PRO left ca...really a pitty a faction like CA is dead, even when imposing order might trying anything nothing ever happends with ca....sadly
since we have a thread about it, i'd just like to congratulate both Templars and Cartel/BD on their achievements in-game.
advice? i can give none that would be useful. it suits me just fine that most of the OPs are controlled by my enemies, as it gives me ample opportunities for PvP and generaly making a nuisance of myself (which is what being an enemy is all about).
all i can say is, try and do something before it all falls apart on it's own. the biggest killer of any clan is boredom. too much success breeds complanency and boredom, and once the best players start to get itchy for combat and begin leaving of their own accord, things may quickly fall apart.
it's not just the worst players that faction hop for convenience, generally the better players will do this too if it looks like getting them more action.
finally, the only real suggestion i can make is - make life more interesting for yourselves and kick every PPU out of your clans ;).
Yep i can imagine how the boredom strikes inside TT lately ;), go ca go more enemies to fight :D
the problem with Outposts is their significance for the next attack.
from Cartel's oint of view, even though they dont need shirkan they would not wnt an enemy to have it becuase it would be a platform to launch an attack from.
same with Temps and an OP like tyron, that Op would provide a thorn in their side.
although most clans throughout the history of the game have not given a toss about OP's are forced into caring simply becuase it would be so much of a bonus for an enemy to GR straight into the middle of their controlled area's.
sadly i do not know a possible route with which to change the situation.
Im not a big fan of super clans, slightly hypocritical being i was a founder of ND, but from what i have seen the only way to beat a superclan is to be a superclan.
Personally i tried to help mould Fa into an OP taking faction, but as always their is much opposition and problems when there are 10 clans each with between 100-30 members.
I pretty much gave up on FA, im not even playing on my main chars.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 13:21
Originally posted by Elric
Because, by the sounds of his post, he is pissed and bored with the situation its in.
You dont get my thinking because your not thinking about it long enough. If he wants to keep Cartel going, then fine. Let him, Kick the faction hoppers and bandwagoners and tell them to piss off. Keep the clan as trusted friends and decent people rather than the bandwagon crew.
Hell, wipe the clan and start a NEW cartel.
Like i said, its extreme, but sounds as if it needs extreme measures to fix too :p
ur the one that is speaking without knowing the truth
All Cartel menbers were ment to be from the begining
We are not a recruiting Clan, any doubts look at SaW post, it is pretty clear....
about the banwagons, we have been pking all those that come from other factions (at least ive been but thats me) to BD
so Cartel/ Titans and Templares are not the problem
The problem is what others can do to spice things up.
that is waht u should be asking
Even a change of power in the factions on saturn wont do much for the world map.
It has always been the case as soon as you give up the fight at one outpost the enemy you are fighting will send out teams to hack the rest.
Eg. You lose an out post say fuck it lets give it up. You can quickly expect all the surrounding ones to be hacked as well. There is little choice except to stop the enemy getting a foot hold.
That is one reason why the map ends up with large blocks of colour and little variation.
Originally posted by Elric
You dont get my thinking because your not thinking about it long enough. If he wants to keep Cartel going, then fine. Let him, Kick the faction hoppers and bandwagoners and tell them to piss off. Keep the clan as trusted friends and decent people rather than the bandwagon crew.
that doesn't work tbh, at one stage ND had 142 mmbers so me and Ste went through the clan just booting anyone we hadn't heard of, or didn't know whose alt it was.
this resulted in people being pissed off becuase a mate or alt had been booted, this is one of a long list of reasons the clan broke up.
Still as much as many of the Cartel guys would dispute it, they are following the same path to dimise as ND did.
EDIT/
Eg. You lose an out post say fuck it lets give it up. You can quickly expect all the surrounding ones to be hacked as well. There is little choice except to stop the enemy getting a foot hold.
That is one reason why the map ends up with large blocks of colour and little variation
very good point, but what can be done to stop this....nothing in my eyes, unles u make it impossible to hack an OP unless there has been a fight their which will not happen
ok, well why i see it to many people just like jumping to the winning factions(tt though more so BD now with the amount of people popping up on the faction).
really with the way things are no faction is gonna be able to defeat us on a major scale, because they either lack the high level runners/amount of runners/or skilled runners, if FA and TG got more organised and got rid of the in house fighting maybe they could put up a fight(and diag about BD needing allies, why is it i allways see TG with FA and crahn at ops battles?)
i would so much like to see DRE and TS become big factions to fight BD, but DRE have far to go, and TS although got some good level runners with exception of a few there skills are in question.
only way in the short term for anything to happen is for temps and cartel to head to other factions that are enemies, though why should those clan move just cos other factions cant organise and everyone like faction jumping.
i aint moving from BD, even if it means a return to my life as a one man clan pker.
Originally posted by Devils Grace
so Cartel/ Titans and Templares are not the problem
The problem is what others can do to spice things up.
that is waht u should be asking
Originally posted by g0rt
I never asked what htey can do, I asked what can be done.... on my end or other peoples end. I never specified WHO has to do what.
Need i say more. Try reading fully :rolleyes:
Anyways, Cartel/Templars ARE the problem. It is them who powered across the map, and are the root of theyre own boredom / problem.
Listen to Stig, he speaks more truth than you can imagine.
aka:
Leave it as it is, theyll end leaving on theyre own out of boredom, and it'll all collapse anyway.
The problem is that Templar's/Cartel/Blood Titan's are collectively too big. They have effectively crippled the OP system on Saturn, and then complain because no one is contesting their hold on the map. Why? Because the second anyone does, they face 3 - 4 clans of runner's desperate for OP action. This is unfortunately a catch-22 situation, the very thing that makes them so effective in OP campaigns, cripples their continued enjoyment off OP wars. Be side’s the rewards for holding an OP are currently negligible, I’d say a limit NEED'S to be introduced on how many OP's a particular clan can hold AND the Map & OP situation desperately needs expansion. Take a look at EQ for sheer size, a low lvl player can take 3 days to cross the map! We basically need B: DOY to expand the available map size exponentially, this would create a greater need for vehicle's and clan's/Faction's to hold OP's!
Edit:- trying to remove smilie
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 13:35
the problem with ND was that they keep on recruiting
WE dont, every single one of us have all chars in clan, cept one or 2 that are doin epics ocasionally
SO WHAT can be done
KEPT on recruiting, its past tense :p
Its beside the point whether your recruiting or if all your alts are in the clan. that doesnt mean its going to get any less boring or fix the problem stated on the thread title does it?
How about you suggest something useful or just stop whining about other peoples suggestions.
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 13:43
Originally posted by Devils Grace
so Cartel/ Titans and Templares are not the problem
you ARE the problem dude - its just you dont want to admit it
the reason people dont want to leave BD is beacuse they might have to work to get to places from now on etc. Most of BD are not great players, i only consider a few to be good, the others just joined the faction because they dont want to fight them
scared....they are yes
I wouldn't mind using a spare alt to help a small clan get greater but im not pulling my main chars out of cartel.
so if anyone decides they would like help making a clan, leave an email ingame to me.
a small clan wont make a difference....u need a full faction after u at least.
Originally posted by S a W
I wouldn't mind using a spare alt to help a small clan get greater but im not pulling my main chars out of cartel.
so if anyone decides they would like help making a clan, leave an email ingame to me.
How about you just come back to pluto so i can sex you a bit more :p
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 13:48
brother u really want me to close this shit dont u.:rolleyes:
i wont do jackshit about the current sistuation kuz i dont need to
if others like the way it is, then good luck, kuz we will continue as it is, if they want to.
all im saying and ive always said, and like i did when Cartel started
get friends, ppl that u know and trust, and start a real good clan
a clan that u all can have fun together, and fight the so hated enemy forces...
im not whining, im just a little bored, kuz everyone gave up, when they actually ahve the numbers and the skill to do it, for many diferent reasons.
Some have internal problems like TG, others are bored to always have to give up what they are doin to defend the nibs from the pkers, and so on and so on.
yea... well its a start right ?
after all thats what this thread is about.
Originally posted by Elric
How about you just come back to pluto so i can sex you a bit more :p
i was about to say the same :lol:
Punisher-X
26-02-04, 13:49
As a CM member, I can post the following knowing it is 100% true.
Firstly, the reason for the past 2 weeks, is simply that CM members *have* been inactive.
Secondly, the reason for the lack of our ability to hold OPs has many faces, and I shall list them here for you:
1) BD and TG and FA and Chran (i shall use your trademarked BD word here) NIBS attacked MB both inside, and in J01 CONSTANTLY since our guards suck. This removed our time from being able to plan assaults.
2) We have more enemies than any other faction. For example, as BD you guys have Phoenix+SHIELD+XTC+NWO and now and then, Imposing order fighting you (im talking 90% of the time here, not the odd time when another faction -proto- tries to attack you). Now look at out enemies - Cartel (BIG clan) Titans (BIG Clan) ASEN (BIG Clan) Final Resistance Various Chran Clans (which are of moderate size) BAD (The FA clan that attack our OPs ONLY when we are fighting you guys elsewhere). Now i probably havent listed all the clans there, but it does give you a good idea of what we are up against ALMOST daily.
3) You guys DID NOT isay again DID NOT take CM off the map single handedly - you combined 2 large BD clans at the fights which is fine, its fair, and im cool with that. But u REGULARLY bring ALLIED (to us) people (just a few) and I regularly see CHRAN clans there too. That is NOT single handedly. You may respond to that, that we bring the mighty fine CA clan Imposing Order to help us. This is true, but really, its only happened in the past 2 weeks of CM inactivity. The past week we have still been trying to put up a fight at a few OPs, but sadly when you look at the numbers, its usually 2 or 3 to 1 against us.
4) I DMd ezza after the other nights fight at Hawkins, to thank you guys for a great night of fighting from some of us CMers (even though we lost). The main thing here being, it was FUN. Not all CM shit talk BD, alot of them that did probably arent in CM anymore. You looked at the forums for the past month g0rt? You seen the constant shit talk by Cartel members? It's a two way thing m8.
Anyways, for those of you that arent in a coma after reading that, hopefully when Cm becomes more active, we can give you a proper fight again. But while you keep coming with 30 to 40, sometimes 50 people, theres not much we can do there im afraid. Too many people have flocked to BD with their tail between their legs, making it simply become a numbers game at OP fights.
pluto = sex
thats all it is
saturn = fun
-=end=-
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 13:54
im gona start taking screenies from now on
What a big pile of bullshit.
reroll the clans back to april/may 03, kick the cs kiddies and all went good
Originally posted by g0rt
What can be done now to turn Saturn's Outpost scene back into an action packed one? Those people in BD that play the game for fun and challenge, rather than to win, could change factions.
As I know you and Vett and everyone already has done, put an extra +1 in the win column, and then start over in terms of faction. Pat yourself on the back for doing what you set out to do, and then make a change and try to do it again from a different angle, with different resources and different people.
I was tickled yesterday when Cartel, who without exception describe CM overall as skillless, bragged on the trade channel that "BD owns the MB." Which is like a bully bragging that he beat up the class wimp. :confused:
Become a CM, take back ops, and try to conduct raids on PP where the BD are. Try something more challenging than what you do now.
Of course this would mess up MY strategy, which was to be TG so I could fight BD, the strongest faction in game (i.e.... I chose a challenging path) so if BD were to come out of power that may change things for me. But I wouldn't mind. ;)
Seriously- doesnt Cartel grow tired of what they claim to be easy victories and then bragging about it? That may sound like an insult, but factually speaking, Cartel DOES say their opponents lack skill and they DO brag about beating them.
Its an honest question.
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 14:01
DG
i know you like the flame, u say its cool
but there is a difference to flaming and being a moron - and all you have been is a moron in this thread m8
i dont mean to be harsh, but even your clan leader said something has to be done, yet u cant see that
u sound like your own clan leader - how about YOU make a clan?
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
sex =¦ fun ?
O_o
that confused me too. :(
Ah well, your loss Si m8 ;)
DG, You HAVE to do something about it. Your clan is the cause of your own issue here, you cant lie back and expect someone else to clean up the shitstorm you caused yourself.
If you leave it to others to fix, what Stigmata predicts and what Ive seen countless times over WILL happen and Cartel will collapse and disappear anyway.
Clean up your own mess, dont expect others to do it for you.
(although the wording here makes it seem worse than it is, im sure you'll pick up on my point)
takle responsibility for your own actions and the consequences of those actions.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 14:05
Originally posted by Strych9
Those people in BD that play the game for fun and challenge, rather than to win, could change factions.
As I know you and Vett and everyone already has done, put an extra +1 in the win column, and then start over in terms of faction. Pat yourself on the back for doing what you set out to do, and then make a change and try to do it again from a different angle, with different resources and different people.
I was tickled yesterday when Cartel, who without exception describe CM overall as skillless, bragged on the trade channel that "BD owns the MB." Which is like a bully bragging that he beat up the class wimp. :confused:
Become a CM, take back ops, and try to conduct raids on PP where the BD are. Try something more challenging than what you do now.
Of course this would mess up MY strategy, which was to be TG so I could fight BD, the strongest faction in game (i.e.... I chose a challenging path) so if BD were to come out of power that may change things for me. But I wouldn't mind. ;)
Seriously- doesnt Cartel grow tired of what they claim to be easy victories and then bragging about it? That may sound like an insult, but factually speaking, Cartel DOES say their opponents lack skill and they DO brag about beating them.
Its an honest question.
dont missunderstand that some of us like a little fuz over trade and mock to what we actually think about them
its not the same trust me
the diference is im not here to be serious, this is not a job, im here to have fun, whatever u agree my way or not is my way
that doesnt mean i do not think they are skilled fighters, most of them are, some are not like in every other faction or clan
but it doesnt mean im not goin to say otherwise:D
NOTE : and if u say this ill denied totally
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 14:18
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
DG
i know you like the flame, u say its cool
but there is a difference to flaming and being a moron - and all you have been is a moron in this thread m8
i dont mean to be harsh, but even your clan leader said something has to be done, yet u cant see that
u sound like your own clan leader - how about YOU make a clan?
so in ur words we should just split up
we that made a clan only with friends
is that it ?
and yes i agree with g0rt, someting has to be done
And BTW about making clans, made one long time ago when i came to saturn, and we were the only clan that won fights to ND lonng time ago and we were all nibs (including me)
its was a CA clan:eek: :p
Originally posted by SpawnTDK
reroll the clans back to april/may 03, kick the cs kiddies and all went good you mean a time when EOE had ops:angel:
I just have a suggestion for you Zone, once the usual challenges are gone roleplay is what leaves.
You have a big clan and I guess you have money, use it. Organize big events, fights, roleplay events, arrange OP takings... for all means try to get out of the boredom, keep yourself busy and amused and at the same time encourage a chance in other factions and clans.
You seem a person that likes to have a challenge rather than sitting there saying: "look how great we are". Find a way to amuse yourself and the people that think like you, dont even care for those that want to keep things as they are or preffer the easy-mode, it doesnt seem to fit you.
Btw DG what CA clan was that, I'm trying to remember but maybe I already have left in that time... the only CA clans I remember were -pro and something called -=Hells or something... that was Selendor's clan back then I think; not sure about it, has happened quite a long time.
Just a suggestion,
Why don't OP owners "offer" OPs to allied ?
That would give the opportunity to other factions to get OPs and to have to defend them.
For instance, BDs could offer OPs to Next and I guess Protopharm would attack them. After a while, these ops would become in the hands of BD ennemies and they'd have another opportunity to fight to get OPs.
Originally posted by Jerto
Just a suggestion,
Why don't OP owners "offer" OPs to allied ?
That would give the opportunity to other factions to get OPs and to have to defend them.
For instance, BDs could offer OPs to Next and I guess Protopharm would attack them. After a while, these ops would become in the hands of BD ennemies and they'd have another opportunity to fight to get OPs. well those factions aint exactly brimming with quality runners or clans which is where the problem lies, most people are all in a few factions, leaving many empty or under populated
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 15:06
Originally posted by ezza
well those factions aint exactly brimming with quality runners or clans which is where the problem lies, most people are all in a few factions, leaving many empty or under populated
because they all faction hopped to BD due to cowardness?
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
because they all faction hopped to BD due to cowardness? yup some have, but even then, when was the last time NEXT had a decent clan, i mean there was a clan when iwas merc going back to what july last year?!? but i mean aint seen one since.
its just to easy for people to faction hop(not saying it should be so hard cos there is epics to consider)there should be some kinda of measure to stop everyone just jumping to the largest faction not careing about the faction in question or the one they were in.
very few people care about there faction, i mean theres a few mercs that have been there long time, ive been BD since about september, a few CA, guys like selendor have been CA forever, but on the whole to many faction jumpers for my liking
Deanus_willis
26-02-04, 15:16
I think in time you will see a large amount of TT clans uprising against BD. They are small now but more people are leaving the clans allied with BD in order to fight BD on their ground. Soon enough BD will have to fight TT CM and CA together.
Although i must say that BD have very good clans with superb fighters so it will not be easy on either side. Should be fun :D
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 15:23
Originally posted by Deanus_willis
I think in time you will see a large amount of TT clans uprising against BD. They are small now but more people are leaving the clans allied with BD in order to fight BD on their ground. Soon enough BD will have to fight TT CM and CA together.
Although i must say that BD have very good clans with superb fighters so it will not be easy on either side. Should be fun :D
that could be it, tho i got very good friends in TT that i would hate fighting, but that could be it.
tho i personnaly think that the others that are incative (wich is a lie they arent, they just gived up), will take the oportunity to take advantaje ofthe rumle betwen TT and BD, like TG for exemple
but that its a possibility
Originally posted by Deanus_willis
I think in time you will see a large amount of TT clans uprising against BD. They are small now but more people are leaving the clans allied with BD in order to fight BD on their ground. Soon enough BD will have to fight TT CM and CA together.
Although i must say that BD have very good clans with superb fighters so it will not be easy on either side. Should be fun :D so basically you guys are happy to fight non enemies?
well when i first joined titans they were at war with TT, i can live with it, as long as you guys are happy at getting pk'd left right and centre at your leveling ground, as i would often go Pk at gab while TT hunted warbys
Originally posted by ezza
you mean a time when EOE had ops:angel:
not real
internal we say: dont need ops, because theres no sense in these
from time to time we fight with other clans/factions just for fun but we dont want/need ops.
personaly i prefer to take my sniper or pe and play random pk assh*le. im bored about opfights since nearly a half jear and im not the only one ...
random pk rockz, all other is boring
Originally posted by Deanus_willis
I think in time you will see a large amount of TT clans uprising against BD. They are small now but more people are leaving the clans allied with BD in order to fight BD on their ground.
Confirmed. Some TT clans attacked a BD OP yesterday, deanus_willis with "spartans" was among them.
It was only a short fight though but yeah, why not have more of those...
Deanus_willis
26-02-04, 15:29
that could be it, tho i got very good friends in TT that i would hate fighting, but that could be it.
I think that is a good thing. If TG FA and smaller factions like Crahn and PP do take advantage of it then we will have a better looking map for sure. I personnally want a nice multi coloured map where i can choose my enemies and aliiences rather then being forced to fight one enemy all the time.
Maybe we will have this sooner than people think. The bigger clans on Saturn are shifting in power as we speak :)
Originally posted by ezza
well those factions aint exactly brimming with quality runners or clans which is where the problem lies, most people are all in a few factions, leaving many empty or under populated Three problems here.
First, the attitude that because other factions dont run around PKing runners night and day, they have no quality runners. That attitude is part of the problem here, wether its as overt as it is in ezzas post or not.
Second, SO WHAT? Like it would ruin anything if BD gave an op to an allied faction, and they then lost it to their enemy. ONOZ!!!
Third, maybe if BD gave other factions a foothold, that would be an incentive for people to be in other factions.
What is the fear here? You know you are big and bad, and according to you, here to stay. So make some sacrafices and give up some ops. If your ego gets threatened because other factions are getting bigger, you can always go back to your monopoly.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 15:35
Amen
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 15:38
Originally posted by Strych9
Three problems here.
First, the attitude that because other factions dont run around PKing runners night and day, they have no quality runners. That attitude is part of the problem here, wether its as overt as it is in ezzas post or not.
Second, SO WHAT? Like it would ruin anything if BD gave an op to an allied faction, and they then lost it to their enemy. ONOZ!!!
Third, maybe if BD gave other factions a foothold, that would be an incentive for people to be in other factions.
What is the fear here? You know you are big and bad, and according to you, here to stay. So make some sacrafices and give up some ops. If your ego gets threatened because other factions are getting bigger, you can always go back to your monopoly.
we already share op's with Titans = true allies
We BD do our best to try and get enemies (at least i do)
I = ME, pk crhan PP (suposly allied) and so far i left TT alone, but it seems (for good ) thats goin to change) bring it
Originally posted by ezza
well those factions aint exactly brimming with quality runners or clans which is where the problem lies, most people are all in a few factions, leaving many empty or under populated
Ok, maybe they can't do everything on their own but with the help of allies, they could manage to do something.
Imagine 10 guys from your clan helping your alliees defend the OP you gave them.
- Your alliees will benefit from your experience in fight
- Their ennemies will bring alliees along to match your force
- > Everyone is satisfied.
Maybe I am wrong but don't you think it's worth a try ?
If it doesn't work, just take the OP back.
Deanus_willis
26-02-04, 15:41
Confirmed. Some TT clans attacked a BD OP yesterday, deanus_willis with "spartans" was amoConfirmed. Some TT clans attacked a BD OP yesterday, deanus_willis with "spartans" was among them.
It was only a short fight though but yeah, why not have more of those...ng them.
Exactly my point, why not more. Im hoping to give both sides a good fight because after all thats what the game is about. With all the small clans scattered about there is a good fighting force in ALL the factions, yes even DRE :lol:
and thanks for the mention Chaplin :D
I dont think we can blaim the clans as such, they are just using a system handed to them by KK, and using it fully.
It's war, plan and simple tbh, you fight your enemy untill they are dead, or removed from the field of play, of course there is another argument that if you do wipe out your foe, who else is there to fight in the game?
This is what is happening here, no one wants to bother to take and hold a outpost knowing that 30+ TT/BD will come down on them in less than 5 mins and they will die, either that or it gets hacked back when that other clan/s are not around.
We all know the faults with the outpost system, we know there should be fixes to it and so on, to many to list. BUT one simple way to get more factions and say clans invloved would be to limit the amount of outposts any given clan can hold, so even clans like Templars and Cartel might only be allowed to hold 5 outposts, one of each type "Lab/Factory/Uplink/Fortress/Mine" thus stopping any such clans from controlling the entire map.
We are not just talking about a colour on the map here, owning a outpost is a income for clans, so the smaller clans could in fact have a stab at holding ops, might even be fighting other smaller clans for that op and trying to get that income.
I mean in all seriousness what clan needs to hold more than one lab or factory or mine? those are the skill ops to hold, can anyone tell me why your clan holds more than 5 ops?
This sort of happened on Pluto many many months ago, we in NDA held the power to control the map, but Centuri would not allow us to do that, we held 5 primary ops and always held them, if we wanted a fight we would attack a enemy, but never with the intention of holding that outpost forever, removing any clan from this game stops your fighting, hence why saturn is like it is.
Clownst0pper
26-02-04, 16:05
OK glad u brought this up zoneseek, as I was enivitably going to do the same.
Afew ways to sort it..
Decided whether you will be a faction, or a clan.
If a enemie faction attacks a particular OP, decide whether they are purposefully attacking BD, or attacking say titans or yourself.
Or, if you so wish, Change cartels faction, to one that is enemies to FA/CM/TT.
At the moment pro is gathering momentum, hopefully some good will arise, and im due to sort an alliance with CM in the mean time.
Personally, at the moment, the excuse of you attack any titan or cartel OP, you attack our faction, its a pretty silly comment seen as BD own 90% of the map, in this sense, we have to start somewhere, we arent neccaserily having a dig at BD, but its either you, or TT.
Which eventually we will try.
Personally the best option is for titans and cartel to have an alliance, but dont always turn up together, realise that you are both seperate clans, and with other factions attacking that clan for a reason, not attacking 2 clans.
Sure your the same faction, but that doesnt mean you always have to fly to each others aid EVERY time. You can fight battles on your own.
Hell, I cant remember the last time I saw Cartel/titans fight on there own. But as you say zoneseek, in war you dont go with half a force when your livelyhood is being threatend, u go with everything you can.
IMHO Cartel should change factions, or remain a single clan, who have the ability to call on titans in dire need.
Until then, Ill obviously continue to try and increase FA's 'profitability'
Just my views when I was cartel, and just my views after.
Deanus_willis
26-02-04, 16:05
removing any clan from this game stops your fighting, hence why saturn is like it is
And so the exact reason why BD and TT should fight it out. But i do agree that if TT do take BD ops then it would make matters worse. On the other hand it could make other clans rise to the occasion and see that there is a window of oppertunity with out such strong alliences on the map.
Whats the point in having only two factions on the map and still having an alliance? Someone please tell me that.... o_O
Original monk
26-02-04, 16:10
Originally posted by Nidhogg
This thread is to discuss how the balance of power on Saturn may be re-distributed amongst the factions in order to introduce variation and new conflict. It is not a thread for slagging off the clans that make up the existing power base.
N
the "powerbase" talked about here will change fastly ... as in: neocron is a contstantly evolving world ...
you think it will stay this way ??
nah, ... its a circle that repeats constantly and "power" will change swiftly ...
with other words: the allies talked about here euh: templars euh: bloodtitans and some other clans doesnt have to be afraid they dont get opposition nomore ... question is when yeah ...
we evolved to a situation where this allie may cause inbalance on the server, combatwise ... but i dont believe this imbalance will stay ... im yust waiting for sumthing serieus to happen like certain people changing faction ... i have other examples ffcourse but i dont gonna give em cause of great chance of misinterpretation ..
but to all who are thinking: ownow we have a great inbalance now and things gonna have to change: rest peacefully on youre 2 ears cause things change in notime in neocron .. like it always been ..
thats it for now, i yust couldnt refuse to post again
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
BUT one simple way to get more factions and say clans invloved would be to limit the amount of outposts any given clan can hold, so even clans like Templars and Cartel might only be allowed to hold 5 outposts, one of each type "Lab/Factory/Uplink/Fortress/Mine" thus stopping any such clans from controlling the entire map.
i suppose it's been brought up before but it's a nice idea. :)
Originally posted by YoDa-UK
We all know the faults with the outpost system, we know there should be fixes to it and so on, to many to list. BUT one simple way to get more factions and say clans invloved would be to limit the amount of outposts any given clan can hold, so even clans like Templars and Cartel might only be allowed to hold 5 outposts, one of each type "Lab/Factory/Uplink/Fortress/Mine" thus stopping any such clans from controlling the entire map.Assuming that we just dont see three new clans pop up, like Templars2, Templars3, and Templars4, each made up of alts, then yeah, I love this idea.
If there was a limit to clans, say a max membership of 80 then yes huge clans would just slit up into 2 separate clans at first but over time people would leave and create other clans or change faction or server or game, then new and expanding clans would be far more thoughtfull about who they let in the clan and why.
Take for example Planeside, they decided instead of restricting outfit sizes they made bonus's that were effected by the size of the outfit. If you have more than 100 members in an outfit it means you get less outfit points for taking and holding bases we could do the same with Outpost awards.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 16:34
i do not agree that one clan are limited to have op's
that would bring even more boredom to the game.
And come on why should those u manage to acomplish sometin, that others cant, be penalised.
why should a clan with 5 menbers hold op's.
no, ppl should organize to fight the opressing force, and not just give up, like for exemple some of the Asen did by goin to Venus.
Cartel and Titans will always fight together when they can.
and im not sure why ppl always say we zerg, when we dont, WE ARE ALWAYS OUTNUMBERED
AND NO CARTEL AND TEMPLARES ARENT ALLIES
WE ARE NEUTRALS
wich means we dont go on each others way, we dont help our allies agaisnt each other, simple as that.......
AND WE ARE JUST ONE FUCKING FACTION FIGHTING AGAISNT EVERYONE ELSE ON THE FUCKING SERVER, CEPT TT
so if u are loosing dont blame Cartel Titans or Templares blame ur selfs...........
now flame away.....
dg... you just dont get it do you .....
thats not a question. its a statement, so no need to bother replying.
Maybe you and the starter of this thread need to have a chat then. Seems gort at least can talk about this sensibly.
well this seems to be a problem on all servers... as of now FF is trying to cut down on ops... ie we wont attack SS when they have low nummbers online....
We usually just hack one op and if the deffending clan dont come, or loose and tells us they dont have enuff ppl we just leave.
We try to limit our op crew to even nummbers....
That goes for most fights we, then again when we feel the enemy clan deservs a good zerging we do that too :P
On a side note, I cant remember the last time we used allies? 2-3 weeks ago?
ps. Im not online 24/7 soo im just talking about the fights im in.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 16:43
Originally posted by Strych9
Maybe you and the starter of this thread need to have a chat then. Seems gort at least can talk about this sensibly.
thats why he is the leader.......
im just sick and tired about ppl blaiming on us all that hapens in the fucking server.......
is it our fault that others simply give up ?
is it or fault that ppl jump on the strongest faction ?
g0rt asked a simple question, What can be done
and all u ppl did so far was blame us of the situation, and that us were the ones that should do sometin about it
when i mean us (Titans Cartel Templares)
and ofr my point of view its not like that
Originally posted by Devils Grace
thats why he is the leader.......
im just sick and tired about ppl blaiming on us all that hapens in the fucking server.......
is it our fault that others simply give up ?
is it or fault that ppl jump on the strongest faction ?
g0rt asked a simple question, What can be done
and all u ppl did so far was blame us of the situation, and that us were the ones that should do sometin about it
when i mean us (Titans Cartel Templares)
and ofr my point of view its not like that gort asked a question and got several reasonable answers.
And if you assume there is a "situation" on Saturn, then who else is to blame aside from you? You are the large clans in power. You seem to be able to do what you want.
When a society crumbles under an oppressive regime, do we blame the citizens or the government?
If the CM faction is simply too weak to fight back, why should we blame them? What are we blaming them for? If you simply have too many strong runners, why should we blame the losers here?
Sorry pal, thats how it works. You dont have to like it, but you should at least try to accept it.
Yes, I dont BLAME you, but I hold you accountable. You can sit around and say that everyone else should suddenly just "fight back" and beat Cartel down, but you knowthat you would do everything you can to stop that anyway.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Btw DG what CA clan was that, I'm trying to remember but maybe I already have left in that time... the only CA clans I remember were -pro and something called -=Hells or something... that was Selendor's clan back then I think; not sure about it, has happened quite a long time.
It was teh Black Cell wuwu :P
Original monk
26-02-04, 16:53
Originally posted by Nidhogg
This thread is to discuss how the balance of power on Saturn may be re-distributed amongst the factions in order to introduce variation and new conflict. It is not a thread for slagging off the clans that make up the existing power base.
N
devils grace: as the quote says the people in this thread are discussing how balance and power of saturn may be re-distributed.
clanchanges: like max 80 players
or OPchanges: like max 5 op's etc
are all viable solutions and may offer a solution for the problems g0rt described so nicely in the startersthread.
these are all examples/suggestions wich can help solve the problem ... there not implemented on the testserver ya know .. there yust suggestion wich ya can think about or work around.
but as i read ya dont seem to like these alternative options, wich is ok ffcourse, but i can say ya one thing:
Originally posted by Devils Grace
no, ppl should organize to fight the opressing force, and not just give up, like for exemple some of the Asen did by goin to Venus.
- > dont count on other people to start organizing & changing stuff, cause then its possible ya gotta wait long :) altough change is inevitable ffcourse, only it will take some time probably .. i dunno.
anyway thats what i wanted to say, dont misunderstand me: this isnt a flame towards youre person, im yust giving a reasonable respons on youre not so reasonable post.
for the rest i cant go into detail on youre post, cause it involves people and clans where i better dont talk about: thin ice ya know.
anyway enjoy playing and posting threads
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 17:01
Originally posted by Strych9
gort asked a question and got several reasonable answers.
And if you assume there is a "situation" on Saturn, then who else is to blame aside from you? You are the large clans in power. You seem to be able to do what you want.
When a society crumbles under an oppressive regime, do we blame the citizens or the government?
If the CM faction is simply too weak to fight back, why should we blame them? What are we blaming them for? If you simply have too many strong runners, why should we blame the losers here?
Sorry pal, thats how it works. You dont have to like it, but you should at least try to accept it.
Yes, I dont BLAME you, but I hold you accountable. You can sit around and say that everyone else should suddenly just "fight back" and beat Cartel down, but you knowthat you would do everything you can to stop that anyway.
yes i want ppl to fight back
ppl should always fight back the ruler/opressor
i blame them about the situation kuz they actually have the skill and the numbers, but they prefer to bitch instead of fighting back.
i accept that ppl dont fight back kuz they think they are goin to loose before already started, i dont accept they can win and dont try....
Original monk
26-02-04, 17:08
Originally posted by Devils Grace
i dont accept they can win and dont try....
or dont wonna try cause they think it aint worth it ? (aint worth the cost, aint worth the casualties ?)
(maybe there yust trying to bore you and youre allies to dead devils grace, thats also a way of defeating someone :), a certain person that liked to kill a turret and run of to another OP and kill a turret there and rince and repeat .. well ya know: pops into mind)
i dunno, but its an option
Devils grace, sorry buddy but here comes the flames, you asked for this.
BD and TT are neutral, but 9 times out of ten when faced against TG, your both there, dont argue, its a fact ive seen being on the TG side of things.
You say people give up, ok lets add your two factions together, throw in some blood titans, maybe some opposing order, say about 40 active runners could be at a fight on your side, now how would you like to go against say 60 runners?
You would say its lame, that they were zerging you, they called allies and so on and so on, sorry but you can't go around saying you don't do this or that when its plan as the day you do.
You never gave me one good reason as to why you made this statement:
i do not agree that one clan are limited to have op's
that would bring even more boredom to the game.
And come on why should those u manage to acomplish sometin, that others cant, be penalised.
why should a clan with 5 menbers hold op's.
no, ppl should organize to fight the opressing force, and not just give up, like for exemple some of the Asen did by goin to Venus.
Cartel and Titans will always fight together when they can.
and im not sure why ppl always say we zerg, when we dont, WE ARE ALWAYS OUTNUMBERED
AND NO CARTEL AND TEMPLARES ARENT ALLIES
WE ARE NEUTRALS
wich means we dont go on each others way, we dont help our allies agaisnt each other, simple as that.......
AND WE ARE JUST ONE FUCKING FACTION FIGHTING AGAISNT EVERYONE ELSE ON THE FUCKING SERVER, CEPT TT
so if u are loosing dont blame Cartel Titans or Templares blame ur selfs...........
now flame away.....
Why do you feel the need to control the map?
Why do you think having more varity from clans/factions would bring more boredom?
Why shouldn't a clan with 5 members hold a op?
You make a comment like your always outnumbered, utter bullshit and you know it, just looking at the size of cartel and templars alone makes up more than double what the enemy could possibly put against you, and you pull bloodtitans into your side aswell.
You know full well why this situation has come about, from leaving TG many X-ND members went o make cartel, look at the map 5 months ago with ND holding everything, now look, TT don't have to worry about ND anymore since they split, so they can hold ops easy, Cartel "ex ND members" are the new powerbase, not really new just moved, same clan with a different tag above the heads of your members.
Now did anyone from ND ever ask what they should do? did Divide ever post like Gort has done today? no and why? coz most of the time people that make these big clans that have these faction hoppers joining them are interested in one thing, Image!.
Plan and simple, you could not bare to watch other clans take and hold ops, coz you think they are not worthy of it? your full of shit tbh andi would never want someone like you in a clan i was leading or in myself, people like you give the game a bad rep.
If you want the map, go get it, in fact you have it, now what you gonna do? there is no more ops for you to take, what now? just go out and randomly pk, woohoo great fun for a few weeks, then what?
Gort says: "oh shit look what we did, there isn't anyone left to fight"
Devils grace says "fuck em, we hold the map MMHAHAHAHA they are all shit and worthless, they can't do fuck all about it"
I really feel sorry for those people in this game who valaue a good fight and would like to hold a outpost for some reason other than making their dicks grow bigger, fuck me thats it isn't it, you want a big map with your colour to make up for your lack of cock :lol:
Phew flame over with, you will get bored soon enough.
Still anyone else know a valid reason for a clan to hold more than 5 ops?
you make it sound like we zerg all time, its funny cos often ive seen us have to fight all the TG clans FA and crahn thrown in to the mix, so you cant even remotly say the zerging is all us.
Originally posted by ezza
you make it sound like we zerg all time, its funny cos often ive seen us have to fight all the TG clans FA and crahn thrown in to the mix, so you cant even remotly say the zerging is all us. I like how you pick out one small line from a huge post and ignore the rest. :)
Its not just about numbers ezza. Who cares what the numbers are. Its about control- BD/Cartel and co have control. gort sounds like he realizes the effect this has on the game, and is looking for a solution.
The more I see the responses of gort's cohorts, the more I respect gort for making his first post.
Originally posted by Strych9
I like how you pick out one small line from a huge post and ignore the rest. :)
Its not just about numbers ezza. Who cares what the numbers are. Its about control- BD/Cartel and co have control. gort sounds like he realizes the effect this has on the game, and is looking for a solution.
The more I see the responses of gort's cohorts, the more I respect gort for making his first post. i picked it out cos i didnt like it:mad:
where not all g0rt [ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ] so why would me or devils post the same as him, we all have our opinions were not a fucking united front ok
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 17:29
with only one sentence i prove that u dont have a fucking clue what u talking about
Cartel isnt ND
Cartel has only 5 former ND menbers
Cartel has like 30 ppl (all active yes) but 30 (more or less )
the only times TT came with us was when we saw (and yes u can blame Asen on that and not TG as a faction) TG FA CR PP all there against us.....
its comon sense if Cartel has the map its kuz we deserve it and we fight for it and defend it always.
i Think making clans only have 5 op's tops is noit a solution, its an idea, but not a solution
and im not here for dick measure, i already know mine is better (not bigger) then urs
:D :D
Originally posted by ezza
i picked it out cos i didnt like it:mad:
where not all g0rt [ edited ] so why would me or devils post the same as him, we all have our opinions were not a fucking united front ok LOL. [ edited ]
Gee, thanks for pointing out you arent gort. I was confused. :rolleyes:
The point is that its funny to see the leader of Cartel being so rational about this, while his lackeys just beat their chest.
I am not expecting you to have the same mind about things as gort. I am just suprised that while gort is looking to find a solution, DG is looking to place blame. Just seems counterproductive.
Original monk
26-02-04, 17:33
Originally posted by Devils Grace
better (not bigger)
hehe,
ya must confess, clever response :)
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - spam ]
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 17:43
Originally posted by Strych9
LOL. [ edited ]
Gee, thanks for pointing out you arent gort. I was confused. :rolleyes:
The point is that its funny to see the leader of Cartel being so rational about this, while his lackeys just beat their chest.
I am not expecting you to have the same mind about things as gort. I am just suprised that while gort is looking to find a solution, DG is looking to place blame. Just seems counterproductive.
i wasnt placing blames here, i just got pissed about everyone was blaming us , titans and templares
I say we are organized, others say we zerg and bring more numbers
i say others dont organize and make big clans, ppl say that we should slipt our op's with smaller clans (wich i dont mind if they didnt fight agaisnt us)
ppl talk when they dont have a fucking clue whats goin on inside a clan or their allies
i didnt blame anyone, ppl blamed us acording to g0rts post
i just defended my self
g0rt will defend him self in a couple of hours when he wakes up
Originally posted by Devils Grace
g0rt will defend him self in a couple of hours when he wakes up I dont think gort has anything to defend really. He first post and follow up posts have been rather lucid. He even indicated this:
I never asked what htey can do, I asked what can be done.... on my end or other peoples end. I never specified WHO has to do what.I think he is being reasonable. Not sure what he would have to defend.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:04
Originally posted by Strych9
I like how you pick out one small line from a huge post and ignore the rest. :)
And whats the point of replying to the rest when your so blinkered you wont realise or acknowledge where the problem lies and what need to be done to "fix" it?
Originally posted by Devils Grace
I say we are organized, others say we zerg and bring more numbers
Templars have always been that fight with superior numbers, Cartel maybe not.
i say others dont organize and make big clans, ppl say that we should slipt our op's with smaller clans (wich i dont mind if they didnt fight agaisnt us)
that is the point, alot of people dont want to be in big clans.
ppl talk when they dont have a fucking clue whats goin on inside a clan or their allies
i didnt blame anyone, ppl blamed us acording to g0rts post
i just defended my self
g0rt will defend him self in a couple of hours when he wakes up
Zone posted with sence, making rational comments, you on the otherhand did not, but then maybe what you really meant was lost in the translation and for that i would give you the benefit of the doubt.
other than that, i can see no way to resolve the situation without.
a) spliting the big clans.
b) making more superclans.
LOL. I didnt ignore the rest of your post DG. You just didnt say anything you hadnt said before.
Clever quote though. :)
However notice when I used it, I went on to actually SAY something else in that post. :rolleyes:
:D
and making more "superclans" will just be a continuation of the same problem.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:11
Originally posted by Elric
And whats the point of replying to the rest when your so blinkered you wont realise or acknowledge where the problem lies and what need to be done to "fix" it?
so not agreeing is not realising / understand it ?
you not "not agreeing" your having a tantrum and blaming other people.
Fine, if you dont agree, whats your solution?
Your refusing to notice the fact that the whole problem was caused by yourselves to start with as I have already pointed out and will not repeat myself for the sake of trying to clarify, look back a few pages.
It cant be solved by someone else. You have to take action in some way to solve it or allow someone else (allowing another clan to undermine some of your holdings for example) the opportunity to solve it, which in effect is taking action to solve it yourself anyway.
When BC collapses through boredom and people buggerring off due to the same, then theres only one thing we'll say.
Told you so.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:19
yes stigamata i find hard to make my self understand, when i cant speak the language very very well
i odnt speak it so bad (before someone flames i mean writte)
tho i speak bad to:D
nevertheless my point is and i agree with u Stig.
and thats all im saying
ppl that like to be in small clans, wich means they cant fight agaisnt medium/large clans, should not bitch kuz they havent a piece of teh action.
all im saying is and once and for all to see if everyone undertstands it, is :
work their internal faction problems
make beter clans, instead of many (and i mean many, just go to citycom) small clans
talk to ppl, organize, unite, and fight back.
thats my toughts, and this can be done by the players
BUT No ppl always wait for KK do sometin for them like implementing rules to forbid clans to have the ability to have more then 5 op's
its like nerfs - what i cant beat i want nerfed kinda talk....
jesus
make things for ur own, dont expect someone to do it for u
now anything u didnt understand, point it out and ill try to explain better
the one main thing that i found that enabled ND to beat CM/TT and any other large force regardless of whether the numbers where double or triple was not down to skill or tactics.
it was down to coordination.
one clan one teamspeak can coordinate better than 3, 4, 5, 6 or however many clans.
forming alliances is only good shortterm.
@DG: Big Clans are no solution. It's hard to organize/manage big clans. And I personally prefer to know the people I am in a clan rather than having everyone and his grandmother in my clan just to be big and have, according to your post, the _right_ to attack OPs.
Small clans are very often better organized, and with an ok Buddy list it's possible to fight together better and with a disorganized "only big" clan.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:27
Originally posted by Range
nice story but
tg has no interest in the ops, thats the point, becaused theres no sense in holding ops, its only for guys ho need a big wiener
and winning a fight with lame zergattacks isnt glorios, its lame.
fact for me is that many highskilled runners in tg and fa but they cant win a fight against 2 zerging factions. in the beginning i helped bd sometimes because there was only bd in a realistic count of runners but now, na tanks, never more. i dislike zerg dudes extremly, cm was the same in the past.
it started here
for those u said i started, here it is
and afetr i replied to him everyone jumped on me
wich i dont really mind....jump on babies
but dont tell ive started
meh, Im not blaming you for starting flaming and stuff. Im just trying to make you realise that the basic matra is true.
"If you want something done right, you need to do it yourself"
The problem started with you taking over the map.
THe only way to solve it and bring your "fun" back is to take action of some sort for it to happen.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:37
Originally posted by Egeon
@DG: Big Clans are no solution. It's hard to organize/manage big clans. And I personally prefer to know the people I am in a clan rather than having everyone and his grandmother in my clan just to be big and have, according to your post, the _right_ to attack OPs.
Small clans are very often better organized, and with an ok Buddy list it's possible to fight together better and with a disorganized "only big" clan.
Cartel is a clan not so big as ppl say, and it was made from a buddy list
it is medium size, but all caped players i agree, but we made the clan kuz we were friends, and we do not recruit unless is someone very close friend of all of us, or almost.
and its dificult to organize a big clan, but its more harder to organize 5 small clans
dont believe in me look at Stig post above
Nice post, very mature.
God knows how we'll change the map. BD (particulary cartel) are *very* orgranised, which is how they win war after war.
Saying that, TT are in a very strong position. They have sheer numbers in the form of Templars, are as well strong allies in CityAdmin and the CityMercs, however it would appear TT seem to be sleeping, fighting rarely.
Who knows?
Looks like some people need to take the long way to see the results of their actions. Anyway, it's probably fun to "rule" over the map for a certain time, but asking others what can be done now is the wrong way. You moved toward this goal, and it is your turn to find the next goal you want to go to. Several possibilities have been offered already, besides additional rules in the game mechanics.
It's good to see though, that their clan leader recognized what they have really gained and that it's probably not what they had in mind at the first place :lol:
And, as it has been said already, too, if noone does anything about it, the problem will solve itself sooner or later, maybe even with an outcome noone expected.
Nonetheless, good luck in finding a new goal :)
@DG: Don't expect anyone to fight back, at least not literally. As Original pointed out already, there are many ways to "fight", even if that means your "enemies" have to outwait the critical mass of boredom on your side. If everyone sticks to it, you will soon feel that the power of passive resistance is much much more unnerving than any real fight. Furthermore noone is required to pull a big clan together, why should they? You cannot force players to fight you.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 18:58
yes it was what we wanted to, me personally didnt expect ppl give up so easelly.
yes i canot force players to figth me
(well i can i just need to leave cycrow open for all and wait
:D )
but then again why bitch to KK to implement rules to provid them the ability to have some way to fight for op's
i think they shouldnt
if some can organize big clans, others can aswell.
my fun will never over, i found out later that its funny to go on other server and spam trade :D
Cartel moving will not do much other than make everyone else move, hell if cartel was DRE all these people who took BD from 600 to over 1000 would go DRE.
Cartel spliting off most people in cartel are friends and wouldn't like to move off in differn't places.
The problem I see with FA/TG/crahn and such they all have good players but are full of tons of small clans who scwable. Problem with a pack of little clans, not much order and then you get the problem of spliting OPs who ever the larger dog is ushally has the attitude you come fight for us but we keep the ops cause we are larger.
I do however see tsunami brewing and it could turn into something.
as a founding member of cartel, i left new dawn, which i was also a high ranking member in, to stir up something new on saturn.
TG was big at the time, but New Dawn had way too many inactives, same with ASEN, so the server was boring. Going Black Dragon seemed like the best thing to do. And as far as faction hoppers go, Cartel is an invite only clan, only friends of founding members etc are invited, we don't randomly recuite. But outside of cartel, yes there are faction hoppers, starting new black dragon clans etc. and it's annoying, there needs to be a penalty for it, cause for one it makes cartel and blood titans (the two main clans in the faction) look bad. Hell, as cartel we're sick of faction hoppers, we KOS other NEW and SMALL BD clans coming over from TG, cause we can't fucking stand that faction hopping bullshit (section-8, made up of former TG's) as an example for a faction Hoppi ng BD clan, that we happen to KOS. So yes, we're the root of faction hopping, but we don;t condone it whatsoever as a clan. we fucking hate it, ask any black cartel member. Faction system needs to be re-worked to get rid of faction hoppers just joing factions for the GRs.
As for zerging complaints most of the time people bring it on themselves they attack differn't clans one after another then look in aw as all these clans show up to deffend there ops.
OK let me address a few things at a time...
1) Its CARTELS fault the map is the way it is. I don't agree its our fault. I think its our RESPONSABILITY that its like this, but not our FAULT. We came to BD when BD was next to DEAD. We because friends with the blood titans, who started logging in more and more and coming to op fights more and more. Eventually, we got BD running quite nicely. Now that the map is two colors I don't believe its our FAULT, we just set out to achieve our goals, and we did...but yes its our responsability. Leave BD? No....I would sooner close every outpost, including cycrow, to CLAN only...only letting allies through when they ask. This may encourage faction hoppers to move around, and it may aggrivate alot of people and have them move to enemy factions to fight us. Im not saying thats what we're going to do, but I would do that before I would move factions.
2) Zerging complaints. People forget to reason as to WHY we zerg. Trust me when I say, we never started zerging anyone. We were HEAVILY outnumbered when we started out as a clan, we were not friends with blood titans, and we didn't have any sort of agreement with templars. We were 100% on our own, and we faught our fights on our own. Our first op fight was at soliko, and we lost it. The next day our second fight was at tescom, and we won and held it. On the third day, TG wasn't happy ot see us on the map, so TG *RIGHT AWAY* took it upon themselves to call FA/CS/PP, making it 4 factions vs one at our SINGLE OP. For this reason, we PK and KOS alot of CS/PP to this day, we don't do it just for fun...we do it because those factions sided with TG at our start as a clan. So, because TG wanted to bring 3 factions with them to fight us, we made a truce with the templars and that solved that. When it comes ot hte mercs, we always faught them BD vs CM. Until the day we took emmerson from them, thier precious emmerson factory. They weren't happy at all about having it taken, so they called FA to back them up. The next few weeks we had multiple CM-hating TT clans at our op fights with us against CM, and they called *US* the zergers. Again, we never called friends, they did it first. So why shouldn't we?
3) Allowing clans from allied factions to take ops. This is a good idea, but there is one problem with it. We allow biotech to take an op, tt will smash them and take it. We allow PP to take an op, tt will smash them and take it. TT allows CA to take an op, we will smash them and take it. We allow crahn to take an op, FA will smash them and take it, and then TG and FA will flow outta there trying to hack everything they can set a hack tool too. It’s a solid idea but I don’t know if it will work in this case.
The one idea I did have was to pack in the entire op fighting, just keep two ops for ourselves….but then blood titans and templars will hoard the rest of the ops, so nothing will change.
Its hard to say what to do, and some of you got me wrong. I’m not bored at ALL. I am quite happy being able to level/pvm wherever I want, have a lot of free time to duel my friends for practice, try out some new chars, raid tg/mb, etc….but I think *OTHERS* will be bored with the arrangement we have now, and me? As much as Nidhogg will argue it, as much as I shit on KK for bugs/bannings/rules/etc that I don’t personally feel are correct, all I really want is for this game to be fun and to succeed, and by ruining everyone’s fun with a crap boring map, it doesn’t make sense.
And btw if anyone doesn’t know who I am, refer to my neocron launcher pro status in my sig.
Originally posted by g0rt
Its hard to say what to do, and some of you got me wrong. I’m not bored at ALL. I am quite happy being able to level/pvm wherever I want, have a lot of free time to duel my friends for practice, try out some new chars, raid tg/mb, etc….but I think *OTHERS* will be bored with the arrangement we have now, and me? As much as Nidhogg will argue it, as much as I shit on KK for bugs/bannings/rules/etc that I don’t personally feel are correct, all I really want is for this game to be fun and to succeed, and by ruining everyone’s fun with a crap boring map, it doesn’t make sense.First lemme say that "fault" doesnt have to be placed. I, and many others, simply feel that Cartel is simply in the best position to do something about the problem, regardless of why we have a problem.
Second, in response to what you say above, I want to say that it shows that in my opinion you are really looking out for the good of the game, and I applaud you for that. A lot of players only look out for their own enjoyment, rather than what might be good or bad for the game overall.
I know of plenty others that would never give a crap about ruining the fun of others... in fact they know they do and that is what they enjoy in Neocron.
Your paragraph above is refreshing after listening to some of the egotistical rantings in this thread.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 20:26
"bows"
:lol:
nevermind fuck it cant be arsed arguing
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 20:36
NC is near dead - server populations are not big enough for 'superclans'
g0rt has a point - TT will take the small biotech clans op if they had one for example - but thats when CM come in
we ARE trying to get RP going, trying to speak to FC's and small clans about hiring us to help them - so hopefully if it works small clans could own ops
obviously, it wont work with huge clans + faction hoppers obessed with owning millions of ops
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
NC is near dead - server populations are not big enough for 'superclans'
g0rt has a point - TT will take the small biotech clans op if they had one for example - but thats when CM come in
we ARE trying to get RP going, trying to speak to FC's and small clans about hiring us to help them - so hopefully if it works small clans could own ops
obviously, it wont work with huge clans + faction hoppers obessed with owning millions of ops
NC isn't doing THAT bad i mean i saw Saturn peak at 440 people the other day at prime time, thats about as big as saturn was 6 months ago, but its not growing at all thats for certain.
The superclan thing....theres only one way to fight a superclan, and thats with a superclan....so it makes it difficult.
this happened a few months back on uranus, a TS/TG alliance owned the entire map for a good few months.
many got bored and quit
many joined the winning team and made it stronger
many tryed to fight back
many were crushed
the only way is too wait it out untill there is enough enemy to ally and conquer
or for a large clan to move faction to balance the server
a couple of clans moved on uranus and now if you log on theres usually at least an opp owned by half of the factions, and even some smaller clans
its like new age art :p
and now with C I E's move to Mercs we're gonna help get some more green on the map
edit: another solution is to take a break from neocron or play another server untill people realise your not at full strength and start taking opps, once they get a hold of a few they will be a lot moire inclined to attack others and after the map looks more colourful move back to the server and start the whole cycle over again
DigestiveBiscui
26-02-04, 20:41
unless the 'superclans' actually realise that having so many op's is crippling the server itself
think about it - if u log onto saturn and see 3 colours then log onto uranus and see 6+ which one would you pick? (Bearing in mind u dont faction hop to the best faction straight away :p)
Balence of power is a mjor problem in neocron i have to say, and its come to the point where if you don't have a superclan or are a member of a superclan, you can;t own ops. Maybe something needs to be done with clans. Myabe even a clan member CAP of 70 people in a clan? Something to balence out the servers so smaller clans can have outposts. It's just a thought.
Originally posted by Bl@zed
Balence of power is a mjor problem in neocron i have to say, and its come to the point where if you don't have a superclan or are a member of a superclan, you can;t own ops. Maybe something needs to be done with clans. Myabe even a clan member CAP of 70 people in a clan? Something to balence out the servers so smaller clans can have outposts. It's just a thought.
Decent idea, problem is clans will just make a rule of two alts per clan max. What if we put cartel to two alts max? We would be down to 60 or so members. :(
Originally posted by Original monk
i may look like a fool now but:
after reading this post again i say:
this is yust cartel propaganda...
That's what you think. Though he's actually being mature and not gloating about the situation. How about you start being mature and actually post when you have something decent to input into this topic, k? kthxbye
Neocron or saturn at least seems to be in a stalemate some leave some join but its just about the same pop not really going anywhere.
What should cartel do go TG or FA over to city admin or maybe mercs? It wouldn't really change anything other than the color cause everyone has a fair force or is allied to a fair force.
As for numbers one thing I have learned you gotta have numbers unless your a PK clan who just wants to do hit and runs. What I learned here and in shdowbane you can play the hournrable small clan but there is always someone who will come with a massive zerg and no matter how good ur smaller clan is at a certain point numbers always win so you must have numbers in store to combat what might get tossed at yea
Originally posted by KimmyG
As for numbers one thing I have learned you gotta have numbers unless your a PK clan who just wants to do hit and runs. What I learned here and in shdowbane you can play the hournrable small clan but there is always someone who will come with a massive zerg and no matter how good ur smaller clan is at a certain point numbers always win so you must have numbers in store to combat what might get tossed at yea
Its the truth. You can have the most ELITE small clan, you will still not hold ops on saturn. If you want ops, you NEED numbers..its not a question, its a requirement.
Originally posted by g0rt
Decent idea, problem is clans will just make a rule of two alts per clan max. What if we put cartel to two alts max? We would be down to 60 or so members. :(
dunno, thats sometimes the problem with multiple alt servers. Though if you think about it, if you had everyones alts in clan, it WOULD keep down the clan size right? Making small clan op wars more common. Lots of Pros and Cons to the idea of a Clan member cap.
Member cap would just equal differn't branchs of larger clans nothing more.
Implement clan wars so clans can fight each other without penalty.
Then limit each FACTION to holding one set of ops (one lab, one factory, etc.)
Then Cartel, for example, would then decide which ops they wanted, take them, and then have to defend them againt other factions AND any BD clans that wanted a share of the BD op availability. Or if BD clans didnt want to fight Cartel for the ops, they could just use them with the faction bonus instead of the ownership bonus.
We have more factions than full sets of ops, so there will always be factions left out that are looking to get their foot in the door.
This also couldnt be abused by clans made up of alts, unless they were of a different faction, in which case it would still help more than one faction.
Of course this would need some kinks ironed out, but it would stop one clan from taking over the server AND it would still keep things interesting for the big clans in strong factions.
Edit: maybe assign some sort of worth to different ops. So Jeriko would be more valuable to have than any other fortress. That would give an incentive for people to challenge whoever held the better ops too.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:10
many ppl said that " ahh ill just do nottin and wait untill they get bored and leave so i can take back op's"
isnt that a smart thing to do
its like the cubans are doin
they are wating for Castro to die, so the U.S takes over the place
smart:rolleyes:
wtf is that
yes i am bored, kuz u ppl gived up of beeing a challenge
am i goin to do sometin about that
yes i am
im opening cycrow for all and wait...........
what u goin to do about it ?
Wait for KK change the rules for u to prevail ?
good, lets wait.....8|
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:14
Originally posted by Strych9
Implement clan wars so clans can fight each other without penalty.
Then limit each FACTION to holding one set of ops (one lab, one factory, etc.)
Then Cartel, for example, would then decide which ops they wanted, take them, and then have to defend them againt other factions AND any BD clans that wanted a share of the BD op availability. Or if BD clans didnt want to fight Cartel for the ops, they could just use them with the faction bonus instead of the ownership bonus.
We have more factions than full sets of ops, so there will always be factions left out that are looking to get their foot in the door.
This also couldnt be abused by clans made up of alts, unless they were of a different faction, in which case it would still help more than one faction.
Of course this would need some kinks ironed out, but it would stop one clan from taking over the server AND it would still keep things interesting for the big clans in strong factions.
no it wont
why should i only be able to defend 5 op's if i can defend all of them:mad:
why should u have op's if u cant defend or fight fopr them but u have them kuz i cant do nottin about it kuz the game mechanics say so
hehe and with a clan that has over 200 peeps still dont mean anything with a clan with 90 peeps which i find sad:)
just to many peeps hav 2-3 more accounts then normal :)
but numbers sometimes dont mean anything ;)
when i was in BB just 5 of us owned 5 clans those were the days and those are the days i miss :(
Originally posted by Devils Grace
no it wont
why should i only be able to defend 5 op's if i can defend all of them:mad:
why should u have op's if u cant defend or fight fopr them but u have them kuz i cant do nottin about it kuz the game mechanics say so I have nothing to say to this, except that this is the difference between you and gort. Sure, you can defend all of them, but clearly you holding all of them is bad for the game overall. That is why gort posted this thread to begin with.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:18
Originally posted by Strych9
I have nothing to say to this, except that this is the difference between you and gort. Sure, you can defend all of them, but clearly you holding all of them is bad for the game overall. That is why gort posted this thread to begin with.
no its not bad
bad is everyone tossed the towel and dont fight for thyem anymore
then they bitch about it
then they blame us for beeingh able to ahve all them
and then dont do nottin about it but praying for KK to change the rules
Originally posted by Devils Grace
no its not bad
bad is everyone tossed the towel and dont fight for thyem anymore
then they bitch about it
then they blame us for beeingh able to ahve all them
and then dont do nottin about it but praying for KK to change the rules
thats with anything when their not benefiting. because thay dont hav the will or the man power are a few examples
$tormbringer
26-02-04, 21:30
most ppl dont see a point in fighting someone of this big clans... coz if u kill em once theyll return with their faction as help... if they die again they will come with all their allies they have... u see the problem?... there is no point in fighting because u know ull get zerged and THIS is the major problem on saturn atm... u cant attack someone because he will just cry for his allies....
I couldn't care less about who holds the OP's on the server.
So well not everyone 'tossed the towel' as not everyone cares.
Personally I have suggested g0rt some things he could do to retrieve the fun, that's all what the game is about... but if he's not bored then I can't really think in what brought him here to ask.
I guess I fall in that category of persons that do not give a damn about server problems; politics are bad enought to mess in real life so I'm of the opinion that no one should take in-game politics too seriously, even roleplaying.
I wasnt always like this, but after seeing where that road leads I decided to never take it again.
If Cartel is having fun then go on, if someone is looking for challenges then everyone is adult enought to know where to find them.
As long as one has fun, who cares.
How about BD and TT hand over 1 op each to the smaller factions in the game and let them fight over it.
Both factions could have a gentlemen's agreement not to attack that op and the smaller factions would then have a chance to take part in op fights against each other.
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:35
Originally posted by $tormbringer
most ppl dont see a point in fighting someone of this big clans... coz if u kill em once theyll return with their faction as help... if they die again they will come with all their allies they have... u see the problem?... there is no point in fighting because u know ull get zerged and THIS is the major problem on saturn atm... u cant attack someone because he will just cry for his allies....
:rolleyes:
$tormbringer
26-02-04, 21:37
really interesting post grace.....
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:39
Originally posted by $tormbringer
really interesting post grace.....
well i could just said for u to remenber the old days when pro was sometin to talk about.....
and what fucking allies u talked about...
and.....
better not
Originally posted by ezza
i would so much like to see DRE and TS become big factions to fight BD, but DRE have far to go, and TS although got some good level runners with exception of a few there skills are in question.
In response to that:
http://www.pric.info/hitjobs/ezza_failed_his_hit.jpg
Devils Grace
26-02-04, 21:51
Originally posted by SyncError
In response to that:
http://www.pric.info/hitjobs/ezza_failed_his_hit.jpg
that means u have killed him or u just bump into his belt
and in that remark he made where do u see him say that he has god mode
Ezza should be happy now kuz beeing able to kill him is someone "make my day and ill log happy now"
good game ezza
No one has god mode and of couse we've all died. I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly. I'm not putting it up as a prize, I just found it humorous because he tried to jump two of us (Tsunamis) while we were talking outside of the Twister club and our PE asses whos skills are in question took him down.
And I'm sure he could take me down any day if I was by myself. I'm not a 100% combat character. I lead and doing so dedicated my skills to many various trades to best assist my clan.
I'm sure ezza is a great runner and many people are probably happy to take him down as you say. I myself enjoy a little combat dance now and then no matter the out come. I think the intensity between certain factions and how they treat eachother (especially in PP) to be fun and keep the game interesting.
Again, don't try to take my post for more than it was. It was NOT an "I am mighter than thou" moment.
hahahaha thats funny shit nice one sync, its funny you took the time to screeny my belt upload the pic and show it
btw i killed stryfe at the MB a day or two later so go figure
edit: i dont care if its one person or 2 people, i ran into 5 people at MB still want and fought them i dont really care
whats it prove if the 2 of you killed me? that im shit? your good? or something completely diffrent?
and i said a FEW have skill
THATS A FAIR POINT ZONESEEK
I posted that huge as its possibly the only time I'll ever commit those words to this forum :)
In terms of breaking it up and adding some to it again. We'll after fighting for OPs pretty much constantly for the last 12 months I (and several other mercs) are looking for something a little different.
I imagine once we've regrouped we'll go retake our little corner, just to keep our MB secure, but the major focus for us right now is:
1. Working with smaller / medium sized clans to get a better understanding of what they actually have as goals and aspirations in a game that dominated by 5 super clans.
2. Becoming a real merc force to help those clans get to where they want to be.
I hope this will re introduce some diversity in the map - if all goes to plan that is - we'll be hitting everyone's OPs on behalf of the smaller guy.
It might not work out, but for now I'm commited to trying it, if it all goes pear shaped we'll return to full time OP fighting and retake our old position. Easier said than done? Not really, the current BD clans aren't a patch on the capability of the old ND setup. We bounced back quickly when they came at us full steam.
They have a small handful of extremely skilled players but on the whole they get by with numbers. When numbers are even (ala sieger fight last week) anything can happen, we won that fight fair and square, but listened to the customary shit talking from our BD friends.
Also - the map wasn't two tone a few days ago, from what I recall the only clan who ever really pwn'd the whole server was the original XH - they owned the whole fucking map for weeks not hours/days (by whole map i mean 90-100% of all OPs).
Wait and see guys - I hope our turning into real mercs happens and it brings diversity back, if it doesn't we'll just regroup at hit back for our old ops.
Rithy
Originally posted by ezza
hahahaha thats funny shit nice one sync, its funny you took the time to screeny my belt upload the pic and show it
btw i killed stryfe at the MB a day or two later so go figure
edit: i dont care if its one person or 2 people, i ran into 5 people at MB still want and fought them i dont really care
whats it prove if the 2 of you killed me? that im shit? your good? or something completely diffrent?
and i said a FEW have skill
Did you even read my post? I wasn't *proving* anything. Its called.. "having fun" "a good ol' time". Get over yourself and reel your cock back in, I'm not into Internet pissing contests.
I didnt bother read everything here.
but basically
the templars on saturn, were not greedy.
We will let other clans take outposts, but if they cant hold it, we take it back.
We let clans prove to us they can hold an OP, if they cant, we take it back and wait for them to get stronger.
too many faction hoppers though, people see BD, CM, TT owning the map, people move to those factions
now its just BD and TT, people move to those factions.
how is the map ever going to be multitoned if no one is willing to stay in their faction and fight for ops?
I've almost ALWAYS been in TT when I began playing this game, I probably will always be in TT on saturn, on other servers, no, i wont be TT
I say again, It's ASENs fault that TG is no longer a competing power, and if they were disbanded (grief 'em: don't poke them, kill them all on sight, raid the canyon and only kill them) TG would, I guarentee, see both a return of a lot of runners, and they would start taking ops. When TG got their shit together, they did decent. They didn't take over the map or anything, but I remember us being attacked by CM, TT, BT and BD all in one op fight [In waves, of course, but equal numbers] and still winning. We can't do that every time, but we held our ground.
Then again, if we did show a victory, the canyon was zerged shortly after by BD or TT and our apartments camped with 10+ people per section... for half an hour. Not exactly motivating. Not insulting you here - if you're in a position to legitimately put your opponent at a disadvantage, it makes sense to do so.
Or, if we did hold the op, ASEN would hack it from us. Or kill us in TG, say that we suck too much to take ops (how's that for logic?) and magically their red SL is back to green in a few minutes.
If you want another colour on the map, get rid of ASEN, and TG will be there.
now its just BD and TT, people move to those factions.
how is the map ever going to be multitoned if no one is willing to stay in their faction and fight for ops?
I moved from TG to BD, because I can now kill ASEN without losing SL, as well as still do my usual things (raid the MB, and I killed FA anyway when I was TG, but now I can do it w/o SL penalty). The second ASEN is gone or at least toned down, I'll be back to TG trying to put them on the map. But as it stands right now I don't care about op battles because the reasons I listed (ASEN hacking them from us after we take them, or killing the third hacker and doing it themselves, sometimes they'd tell us they 'did' the second hack, but they didn't, so we'd do it thinking it was the third, then they'd do the third layer, even when we were supposed to get the op because it was our turn)
Major Havoc
26-02-04, 23:43
Can't be arsed to read this entire thread, as it's just too huge ;)
Basically, and it may have been posted already then flamed etc, but why do CM need OP's? We're CM?
So there you have it - I don't miss OP's; flame me, call me weak, unskilled, whatever - I don't dash back to MB/J_01 when a PK'er enters the zone, I don't dash to the 'UG' when an OP barrier gets hacked - you wanted the OP's you have them. kthxbye.
You wanna know what I do in game? Join CM :D
Faction Maps; go figure - I've seen several...
Best DM and flame me in game, this is one thread I won't be revisiting...
NS_CHROME54
26-02-04, 23:54
ok i didn't bother to read the entire thread, but i'm going to say what's on my mind.
it's a shame that FA never got what they really deserved. 6-5 months ago, we had all these little FA clans fighting their hearts out at op wars. we never got any help. tg never helped us at all (nd said this was because we didn't help them, which was total bullshit), and at the time we were at war with cm(all of cma), ca (mostly inferno and pro), bd (red symphony) and tt (templars, ad). still we fought. for a while we managed to hold our ground. for a couple of days we had more ops then anyone. but then nd started being asses and took our northern ops, which we had controled for quite a while at that point. granted while ca was dead at that point, and we had our NAP with most of citymercs, we were still facing the ever growing threats from red symphony, afterdark and templars. what were we to do? we fought, we fought, and we fought more. finally we quit, because it was hopeless anyway. for all we held our ground, we never got the position of a dominant faction that we strived for so hard. all the FA clans cooperated, fuzzy animals, smokin fools, RBR, cygatek, UPC... we all worked for a common goal, and we all shared the ops we took together (tho fuzzies always wanted the northeast ops). but we FOUGHT, we fought for a long time. what did it get us? nothing. that's why FA is pretty much out of the op taking business.
How is Cartel the problem?
Situation one - Op is being hacked. We go with maybe 10ish people. We zone out of the UG. There's a good 20-25 people standing there, watching the UG. We all die. We call allies to come to the op to give us alittle help(from what I've seen, it's normally blood titans, not temps much anymore).
And were the fucking problem? Were pussies for calling another clan of our own faction just to help us out? But when it's TG/FA/Crahn against BD, were the fucking pussies?
Yes, something needs to be done, I agree. But saying that Cartel is the main problem is just fucking stupid.
Originally posted by stigmata
Templars have always been that fight with superior numbers, Cartel maybe not.
When you are fighting people higher that are higher leveled than you are more capped maybe we needed more people.
Oh wait no we didn't. Equals numbers fight could go either way. Infact I remember beating ND on occasions with less people than them so please less bullshit.
when i was in templar's i always thought it would be a good idea if they just split in half, and the went to a different faction that were enemys, and then there would be the new clan, templar, and cartel. this would even things up and add alot more fights for OP's..
for the few days that i was in templar, like the biggest clan on the server, i was amazed at how NO ONE took there OP's.
not once in the whole time i was in the clan did a clan seriously try to take an OP. the closet thing i saw was 1 ppu, a tank and a couple spys try to hack gravis...that was it...
you would think that the big clans constantly fight, but the problem is there fucking allied to cartel, which is basically IMO the second strongest clan on the server (by numbers only)
it makes no sence, and i have never seen 2 of the most strongest clans have a NAP/alliance. but like i said, in cartels current state, and templar having half the server in there clan, BD would most likely get pushed off the map, and id bet that 95% of all the OP's would belong to templar.
I read all 13 pages. Hats of to Zoneseek for his first post and his comments halfway (??).
There isnt anyone to blame here, but the only solution to this stalemate has to come from the biggest clans indeed.
Why not break the treaty with TT? It's the only plausible enemy left on the server... Waiting on other clans to organise themselves is hopeless. I know they're neutral to BD, maybe change factions again, get different enemies, challenge other factions. It looks like u knackered the opposing factions atm anyways.
The point is, if there's ANYONE/THING that can change current status on the server, it's the dominating factions, wether it's TT or BD. Other factions will just retreat into passive resistance which will eventually lead to boredom, frustrations inside the clan and a possible break up of the clan. U can kill active resistance, but u can't break passive resistance.
See what CM did in J_01, it was a favorite place for a lot of the Cartel's members to pick a fight. CM retreated and u had to pick another spot. Soon you'll break TG as well...then what? Eventually you'l pwn the map and have shitloads of faction allies you can't fight properly (doing missions every day for months gets old as well) and the rest will keep their LE where it was from day 1.
As long as there isnt a fundamental change as to how clans/factions interact, and OP's are virtually worthless I'm not expecting a big rise against the current status quo. We'll just bore you lot to death in the next couple of months ;)
[edit]
Originally posted by 2ply
How is Cartel the problem?
snip...
Cartel is the problem BECAUSE it's (prolly) the most powerfull clan on the server. It's the strength of the clan that puts people of of putting up a fight. It's nothing personal. People shouldn't see this as an attack on Cartel, in some twisted way it's a compliment on getting a very nice group of players together and getting them organised into the group it is now.
well its ok cos right now you got Fa and there unexplained syncing that accompanys every fight against them, and you got the CM zerg force in action right now, so add to colours to the map
How the server balances can be seen to be bolloxed in a week I don't know.
Ninjas are partially to blame, but lately we've had many inactive members + new members we've been sorting. As well as internal issues with CM.
No you havn't broke us, we're just changing some things around.
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 01:25
Originally posted by ezza
well its ok cos right now you got Fa and there unexplained syncing that accompanys every fight against them, and you got the CM zerg force in action right now, so add to colours to the map
awww, has ezza lost 1 of his 10 BILLION OPS ALL OVER THE MAP?
To those who said to fight TT, its bad for two reasons...
1) If we happen to get the upper hand on TT, they can call CA/CM to help which is ALOT of members. Who can we call against TT? Not FA, not TG, not Crahn...Biotech is our only real choice. Oh wow biotech, 98% of that factions members are just there for the moveon.
2) Doing missions for epics sucks. I tried to make a Crahn RPK clan once (some may remember it, AOTS, 6 pure monks back when hybrids were the shit....we pk'd mostly in the cellars just to piss everyone off :p) but it was only fun for about 2 weeks, after that i got sick of spending 4 hours fixing my SL after every decent PK run. Fighting neutrals or allies just isn't viable atm.
Originally posted by g0rt
Fighting neutrals or allies just isn't viable atm. And it should never be, outside of warzones. Or are you going to tell me that the faction system and almost the entire Neocron world are worthless elements of the game?
Just wait for your hardcore server, then you can do that shit. In fact, I might be there with you. But saying the entire game should change to suit psychopaths (RP-wise, or not) is silly.
trigger hurt
27-02-04, 02:01
Originally posted by Capt. Rik
Why don't members of Cartel & Blood Titans and Templars split up and join the big clans on other factions?
If enough high level PvP'ers move around to support the smaller factions then there's no reason why the map cannot belong to 5 or 6 factions.
Anyway, haven't thought about this too much at the mo, i'm late for uni. Will post later
1- We enjoy fighting together. We all know each other from either New Dawn, or the other clans we are in. We'd eventually end up like pluto with everyone knowing everyone else, then we would be back in the same position.
2- There are now several other factions who are growing stronger every day. Tsunami has a new clan that's up-and-coming, DRE has a clan (don't laugh, most of them are vets of saturn), TG has 2 large clans. Why should we split ourselves up so that we can end up fighting each other? Despite what people seem to think, Cartel is not a huge clan.
We have approximatly 104 members. Every member has at least 2 chars in the clan, so the maximum individual members is about 52. Some people have 4 chars, some have 8 some have 12 chars in clan. That cuts the numbers down even more. It should be up to the other factions to get stronger (they have the manpower) and fight us back. It can be done.
keep it ingame ? this is yust cartel propaganda ...
*sigh*
trigger hurt
27-02-04, 02:11
Originally posted by SyncError
No one has god mode and of couse we've all died. I'm not sure what you're getting at exactly. I'm not putting it up as a prize, I just found it humorous because he tried to jump two of us (Tsunamis) while we were talking outside of the Twister club and our PE asses whos skills are in question took him down.
And I'm sure he could take me down any day if I was by myself. I'm not a 100% combat character. I lead and doing so dedicated my skills to many various trades to best assist my clan.
I'm sure ezza is a great runner and many people are probably happy to take him down as you say. I myself enjoy a little combat dance now and then no matter the out come. I think the intensity between certain factions and how they treat eachother (especially in PP) to be fun and keep the game interesting.
Again, don't try to take my post for more than it was. It was NOT an "I am mighter than thou" moment.
seeing as I have faught with and against stryfe on many many different occasions, I know better than to question his skills. That would be like me telling element[] that he's stinks at pvp.
im not sure what the point of all that was, but meh! :p
TT and BD going to war won't work and wouldn't solve the problem. What if BD wins? The map is all black and you just made the problem worse, same thing if TT wins... OK TT pulls all the Pro City factions together to take BD off the map... great no we got like 2 or 3 allied city factions that have taken the entire map and now they don't have any enemies, back to square one.
So TT and BD going to war will only make things worse at this point.
The only suggestion I have is my previous one, release 5 or 6 OPs and allow the other factions to duke it out, I know the temptation would be great to intervene if an enemy faction starts to take them over but they should be allowed to take them and grow until they become a viable enemy or whatever... well it could go either way actually but would at least be interesting *shrug*
Originally posted by Zanathos
the templars on saturn, were not greedy.
We will let other clans take outposts, but if they cant hold it, we take it back.
We let clans prove to us they can hold an OP, if they cant, we take it back and wait for them to get stronger.
We enjoyed the fights over Malstrond on tuesday and today a lot. Nice fighting with minimum flames. Only the fatals were annoying but thats almost become normal.
The basic problem is that we are not living in the same time zone. The FA clans currently doing most of the op-fights are eoe, B.A.D. and pro. We are all Europeans. When we start hacking OPs, most of the TT guys are offline. And wenn we go sleeping and leave the OP you guys came and hack it back. For you it's sort like ninja hacking what we do. For us, it seems the same what u do. There comes the misunderstanding that FA cannot really hold an OP. Actually we can and we will. We tried to prove this the last couple of days and be sure we are going to prove this in the future.
And if you resign from getting BD involved, maybe we won't ask TG for help, too. We don't like to be seen as TG's watchdog anymore. We want to prove that FA is capable of standing alone. Indeed TG played very little role at Malstrond today. We FA staged the fight. Thanks to all FA clans who participated in today's fighting. Good game.
Originally posted by ezza
well its ok cos right now you got Fa and there unexplained syncing that accompanys every fight against them, and you got the CM zerg force in action right now, so add to colours to the map
Well, we got sync prob today as wll. Seems most of the people involved in the Malstrond siege had problems. It's kinda shame cause the fights were exciting.
Originally posted by g0rt
Most of us who first joined cartel had one agenda in mind: take twilight guardian off the map.
it might have been said, but I am at work atm hehe and cba to read whole thread, but if Im not mistaken, arent over half youre clan are former TG, I mean I didnt really notice cartel blow up until ND broke up............again I could be mistaken.....
nope; while cartel has (not counting alts) 50 or so TRUE members, only less than 10 where old ND; most other old ND (like ND leadership people) either
1.) quit
2.) went FA
3.) went BD
4.) went BT
I'm pretty sure the old NATs in the merger went FA; a few went BT; and like 4 or 5 went BD; most of us (like myself) quit for a few months as we needed a break from the game.
as some of us came back we naturally looked for wehre our friends went and ofcourse joined them; hence that was like anothre 2 or 3 old ND people in cartel, and a few more in BT.
so no not half of cartel was ND. much less than half.
Originally posted by mdares
nope; while cartel has (not counting alts) 50 or so TRUE members, only less than 10 where old ND; most other old ND (like ND leadership people) either
1.) quit
2.) went FA
3.) went BD
4.) went BT
I'm pretty sure the old NATs in the merger went FA; a few went BT; and like 4 or 5 went BD; most of us (like myself) quit for a few months as we needed a break from the game.
as some of us came back we naturally looked for wehre our friends went and ofcourse joined them; hence that was like anothre 2 or 3 old ND people in cartel, and a few more in BT.
so no not half of cartel was ND. much less than half.
ok, then yea I was wrong, so where did you all come from? are most old Red symphony membrs? where did they go? maybe thats what i was thinking.....who knows. dont play saturn anymore anyways :p
honestly i dunno; they're just people i've seen arround... some came from pluto; some wehre already BD just pking stuff... dunno wut happend to red symph tho... they werent there anymore after i came back in january after quiting in nov. maybe some older cartel people know.
That funny. I stopped playing in November and returned in January too. Before I stopped (I didnt quit...I just had to move house and it took alot longer than I thought:mad: )Red Symphony were the only BD clan I ever saw regularly.....then when I got back Cartel seemed to have sprouted out of nowere. Of course at that stage I found TG had been overrun by tards so I took my tank to proto....then killed him:(
Richard Blade
27-02-04, 07:00
"Holy rusted steel Batman", this is a long thread. And, I read the whole thing.
First, good post gOrt.
I'm glad to see the flaming wasn't too aweful.
As to a suggestion:
I've seen several people suggest that Cartel and Templars let loose some of the ops.
If the clan leaders can get their clannies to follow the rules, then this will work. I don't know Castoff, but I would bet if the leaders got together and discussed this, she would be happy to allow TT enemies to take a couple ops, for the sake of the server. Same with you gOrt?
Once a "balance" of power happens, then clans can start to extend their grip. If they get their hand smacked by Templars or Cartel, then so be it. They weren't strong enough yet. But, Templars and Cartel can't turn the attack into a retaliation attack and take 2 or 3 of their ops.
BD and TT fighting won't solve anything. If anything, it will ruin a decent amount of RP that happened a short time ago. (bravo Castoff and ??Twisted was it?)
@Rith
I think I understand your plan. Get all the Faction counselors to call in all the clan leaders and explain that this is for the money, not the KOS / U suxxors / I hate "name".
For Mercs to do this, they will need every clan leader to understand that it isn't personal. It's mercenary. Just because several Pheonix were hired to help take an op doesn't mean that they or their clan should be put on KOS. It's mercenary. Turn around and hire them to take the op back if you need to. :D
As to this situation being the fault of Cartel and Templars? pfff
You could blame ND for the start of the decline. But, that offers no solution.
Cartel has people who very exactly belong in BD. I may hate them at times for some of the things they say here in the forum. I may think they shouldn't be allowed to play this game for some of their in game actions. But, their role in the BD has proven to be where they fit best.
The same for Templars. If that clan ever leaves Tangent, it will be a sad day for Neocron. They fit there.
What needs to happen is for all the "it's easier to play on their shirt tails" players to spread out and try the other factions.
I see more and more BD newbies around Neocron. I'd bet it's because they can't use the GR's as any other faction.
People that start as newbies and join Templars do so for a reason. Many Templars go out of their way to help newbies.
Then, the newbie goes to another Tangent clan or whatever. When they leave the Templars, they should try another faction.
If more of the "non-regulars" were to try other factions, we wouldn't have this problem. By regulars, I mean the 30 or so people in Cartel (I don't mention Blood Titans because I've never seen one - and I'm on a lot), and the main core of Templars. The guys who joined back when they first started to assault ops.
As a side note, Templars may have a large membership, but not all of their members attend op fights. It's only the same 20 or so. ( note that this is from my limited experience while helping them with my hacker that is in a small TT clan) Also, they do have a "around the clock" membership, or so it seems.
Sorry for the lack of organization in this post, I hope it makes sense.
Originally posted by Richard Blade
BD and TT fighting won't solve anything. If anything, it will ruin a decent amount of RP that happened a short time ago. (bravo Castoff and ??Twisted was it?)
Not to mention that a TT/BD war wouldn't make much sense according to the storyline, from what I have read. Wish this game would be given more of a direction with the storyline... well at least it is better than Shadowbane in that sense.
trigger hurt
27-02-04, 09:05
Originally posted by extract
it might have been said, but I am at work atm hehe and cba to read whole thread, but if Im not mistaken, arent over half youre clan are former TG, I mean I didnt really notice cartel blow up until ND broke up............again I could be mistaken.....
it's been stated already.
Most of our members had ties to TG whether through ND or being a lone runner or being in some other clan.
At this time, there are probably only 4 or 5 people that were in ND that are in Cartel. My constructor is the only member I have in the clan atm.
The reason we have ill will towards TG is because the people who were supposed to be on our side when we were tg betrayed us. Clans like ASEN road the New Dawn coattails and expected something in return for the work we put in. Many times, we would go and take ops, never see one of their members until the fighting was over and the ops were in ND's hands.
The last straw was when they started attacking members of New Dawn and other clans in TG outright. Stabing them in the back, assisting city mercs and Black Dragon with raids and their mysterious red SL becoming green in a few minutes. We were fed up. Much like many of the recent runners who have moved from TG to BD. We can't be bothered to fight to stay in a faction that doesn't want us. I left TG to kill one clan only. So far, that clan can't do anything outside of the canyon or grant mine. That's fine with me. I take pride in their humiliation.
Beleive it or not, if the people who left TG were to go back, TG would be back on the map within a few weeks. But why go back when the members of that faction only want to ride your coattails and expect your gratitude?
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 09:50
i logged last night and we were taking some ops back again hoping to get colour on the map. We had some green there when i logged
log back in before i head off to college, all bd again
..sigh :rolleyes:
Yup, thats the way it goes.
Last night we took Seiger, then Phoneix were taking Jankins. I GR to seiger to find some resistance, so we take them out.
Just before I logged for sleep I think Barrier 3 went down at Chester.
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 09:54
...bet you it was mostly blood titans as well
BD spend all day on this thread saying they want a fight...we get people together, we go there - they dont show
granted cartel may of been helping TT or defending there own ops, but titans never come without cartel - wonder why :rolleyes:
so they waited....and waited....and then when there was 1 clan guy online i guess they thought it wasnt a ninja, and went off to take them back
unless i'm wrong?
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 10:05
well seeing as most of blood titans are german and are 1 hour ahead of us.........
Originally posted by Richard Blade
As to a suggestion:
I've seen several people suggest that Cartel and Templars let loose some of the ops.
If the clan leaders can get their clannies to follow the rules, then this will work. I don't know Castoff, but I would bet if the leaders got together and discussed this, she would be happy to allow TT enemies to take a couple ops, for the sake of the server. Same with you gOrt?
BD and TT fighting won't solve anything. If anything, it will ruin a decent amount of RP that happened a short time ago. (bravo Castoff and ??Twisted was it?)
If more of the "non-regulars" were to try other factions, we wouldn't have this problem. By regulars, I mean the 30 or so people in Cartel (I don't mention Blood Titans because I've never seen one - and I'm on a lot), and the main core of Templars. The guys who joined back when they first started to assault ops.
1. Yes
2. Yes that was twist3d, zoneseek and RP don't really go well in the same sentance :D
3. Blood titans are a tight group, they keep to themselves. They are always around on the op war scene when needed, im a big fan of the titans. But yes they are not too public.
@Biccy/Opar/Dissenter:
When I logged in today I saw the green patch. This was late aftenroon (busy day). I also saw a patch of grey (FA). People were helter skelter on cartel teamspeak, no one really organised a squad to stop the mercs (who would have guessed? :p). The first thing i did was turret the living hell out of emmerson/northstar because i was told we were dealing with quite a large army of mercs, and i didnt want them breaking through past emmerson/northstar. Secondly i msg'd my good friend eledh, and he confirmed that TT was moving in on FA. I assumed they didn't need any backing, because he didn't ask and lets face it..when does TT need backing from FA these days? Thirdly I got everyone into one channel on TS, called everyone to emmerson, and msg'd the blood titans and had them gather emmerson. We had about 15 people there when CM showed up at northstar. We gr'd in, and faught off CM. Immediatly after we went to drakkan and hacked it, following with rockshore, waiting for a fight.
I was hungry as hell, so i said ok guys go hack the rest and kill any CM's that try to stop you, and im not sure what happened after that because I ate and then watched survivor, returned about 2 hours later and most had logged from TS and the map was back to full black.
Thats the story. I wasn't around for more then the small fight at northstar, and the hacking of drakkhan and rockshore.
I hope this small story shows that I had absolutely no intent on ninja hacking anything, I just wasn't on so when I came on I did something about what was happening. And dont pretend like you mercs had all logged, we killed a good 10 of you and chased off a few others at northstar, so you were there :p
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 10:45
what time was this? in GMT i mean - any ideas?
like i said i logged after we took chester - so i didnt know whether u won the ops or not, all i know is most CM wouldnt of been on after 12 - due to the fact we like sleeping a living lives :p
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
what time was this? in GMT i mean - any ideas?
like i said i logged after we took chester - so i didnt know whether u won the ops or not, all i know is most CM wouldnt of been on after 12 - due to the fact we like sleeping a living lives :p
I would say we set out between 6:00 and 6:30 pm EST. Which is about 11:00 and 11:30 pm UK i believe.
Original monk
27-02-04, 11:09
Originally posted by 40$Poser
How about you start being mature and actually post when you have something decent to input into this topic, k? kthxbye
lol and who are you ??
owyeah sum kid who also wants some attention ...
above quote is what you get if you give "that" kind of people a keyboard ...
like the greenpeace thingie
start thinking and stop stinking poser...
btw: who are you ?
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
laterz people ... i gotta take some pictures of the snow now and then i come back to read the rest of this funny thread
altough funny ? i duno wheter to cry or to laugh nomore ... petetic
Originally posted by Original monk
lol and who are you ??
btw: who are you ?
Decypher, rank 13 cartel....one of our best PPU's and most loyal players who I didn't know very well before the clan but know have become good friends with.
I'd probably say later g0rt. I logged at about 11:30 which was just as Chester was taken. So by the time the group reached northstar it would probably have been going on 12:30 - 1am, so people logging to call it a night really wouldn't surprise me.
The time difference really can fuck up good fights :(
[edit - I logged at 11:30 for sleep so I could be in college for 9am, seeing as its 9:30 now and I'm at home - that really workd :p ]
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 11:38
i think god should of made the world smaller tbh
this idea about breaking up and going to new factions is just dumb.... not gonna happen.
For me personaly, I was BD when BD had 15 people in it... im not leaving because of a few faction hoppers, Ill pk other bds and make them leave my faction, ive already done it to some and they have left.
Second, good players flock togeather... Like it or not, weather im on my tank, pe, or apu im better then 99% of the server... I dont want some noob ppuing me, I want a very good ppu, like rasp or decypher, and I want good fighters fighting with me like ezza or devils grace or nish, not some noob who cant cover me.
Heres what I personaly think we in cartel should do:
#1, grind faction hoppers into red paste. For example, I see on trade "making a new tangent clan, dm me to join" Well, guess what. They are on Kos to me. Trying to be neutral to BD you little pussy? Ill kill you anyway. Prrto clan? pathetic little wscumbag cowards, 2 faction hostiles, ill kill you so much u wont leave plaza. Go bd and I saw u as FA 2 days ago? i gonna kill you and spit on your corpse. FORCE them to go to a faction hostile to bd, just make them hate the people in BD and want to kill us, so we have a enemy that wants to fight hard.... fighting people who hate is more fun.
#2 close all GR's to clan only, dont give em a reason to faction hop. Kill everyone, tt, bd, pp, whatever leveling in chaos caves, dont let em level, that will get em pissed, and hopefully make em join a faction hostile to bd.
basically, make life hell for anyone not in clan or whos been a freind for a while... MAKE them be our nemies, weather they first wanted to or not.
And the CM's talking about cowards never fails to make me laugh... there isnt a CM playing who doesnt run from me 1vs1.... next thing cms are gonna ask for is for cm guards to spawn in whatever zone they enter, so that they can always run to them if attacked. :lol:
Great input there vet, I'm sure people will enjoy reading that.
Stabing them in the back, assisting city mercs and Black Dragon with raids and their mysterious red SL becoming green in a few minutes.
Cool, I wasn't the only one that noticed this then
And it's interesting you mention them calling in CM to help them kill TG - because that CM clan is Hell's elite, who are now TG. But I have screenshots of ASEN and hell's elite working next together [infact, ASEN sent a call for help when we were at a time of peace, saying CM was at grant, we pulled up mobilized and found asen standing side by side with hell's attacking us together in an ambush], which prompted Final Resistance to declare full on war against them. And I know they only changed to TG because they are ASEN assbuddies and were probably puppeted in to thinking they'd get some glory out of taking over TG. Instead they failed and are getting bullied by ASEN as much as anyone else, and last I heard the two were now fighting. I wish hell's would piss off and go back to CM - some of them even have the audacity to say that TG is their 'home', meanwhile they were supporting the clan that has been undermining and destroying TG, and worst of all, they were supporting that clan against another clan who deeply loved TG and wanted to see them back on the map more than anything.
gg hells you = asen tools
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 12:16
i dont read input from un-intelligent bd runners m8 but this time i did, it was pointless though because its the same as the rest of you bullshit posts - zone and DG made some decent comments (zone more than DG :p) but you just.....speak utter shit
not a bad post for vet - but still a massive fucked up ego trip which will just boost it even more, sitting there with a smile on ya face now vet? cock in one hand, mouse in the other :)
swear i saw his tank run from seiger last night - was it just me?
I remember a while back - you as the solo pker that said u were always on your own, now your in a superclan in a superfaction and mr 'i dont use stealth and i love the lib' is now i stealth and use judge
:)
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 12:20
Originally posted by Samhain
I wish hell's would piss off and go back to CM
nah m8, we had to endure the fuckers for a long time - someone else's go :p
faction for just the Hells elite twats - win!
lib is shit, so its understandable :p
anyways, look on the plus side, At least its a constructive (if a little... odd...) suggestion as to assist the situation.
Makes me feel like playing on saturn again... Had a hell of a good time sitting watching Nish and Vet killing off the CM's at MB. If more People do it thats like.. full time entertainment :D
I didnt change factions to join cartel. I was such a super efficient pker, TH was turreted to hell because my raids were too devistationg, (nobody... NOBODY raided/killed even half as many FA as I did) and MB was given 120/120 guards. When I arrived on this server, the J's were filled with wb hunters, now they are desolate at peak times... ive pked everyone there is to pk, I joined because I started joining cartel op wars out of sheer boredom, wanted a fight, got to know the members and was at op wars every day so I was invited and joined.
I honestly think if we want more enemies to fight we have got to MAKE enemies, kill as many people as possible, patrol fire mob/wb hunting areas and kill people, disrupt leveling, follow tradeskillers up to their apts and kill them, pk people in aggie cellars, in swamp caves, everywhere. make people mad and want to come after us.
Nightbrother
27-02-04, 12:23
/edit I will elaborate later. At work = not enough time.
DigestiveBiscui
27-02-04, 12:25
There is always a pker at mb m8- why?
1. BD have nothing to do - fair enough, dont mind fighting them until they ppu it up and hide behind him and spam on trade
2. TG are too stupid to know what they have - and clan with 200 members that have 11 + onlinw + final resistance + hells could cause BD problems - but instead they have 2 pkers at mb being fucktards who run whenever someone shows
TG could cause BD probs - but they are dumb
oh and on the lib/stealthing thing. I was low tech pe for longer then ive been high tech if u combine all my neocron time. I tried pking u mercs on a hover no stealth... was fun for a while but then it got lame... mercs ran right by me and tried to blow up my hover... libs getting weaker on test and judge is getting another boost (its good atm... doesnt need another boost) so next patch id really have no chance with lib... for some reason the powers that be have no intention of fixing lib missing 50% of its bullets.... I cant deal with it any longer. if u guys didnt use ppu/mass numbers vs me id have no need for stealth, but a we know that will never happen... i can either not stealth and be para spammed and gang banged by 5 tanks, or stealth, and lead u away from the ppu 1by1 and kill you... which would you chose?
City Mercs, City Admin, and Tsunami appear to be the only forces that could do much of anything right now. Its just a matter of time before they start to take a few ops and get a piece of the pie.
Twilight Guardian appears to have abandonded op taking and is content with raiding CM and pk'ing any non-TG on sight. If they focused their energy on taking ops or pking just enemy factions, then they could help to tip the balance of power back Non-Neocron factions, but for some reason most of them prefer the "you're all KOS" route, which also means they're making many enemies. Not a good idea if you want to get and keep any kind of real power.
Fallen Angels want to be a power (especially since we're tradeskillers and want some ops for the skill bonuses they give), but organizational and time zone problems severely inhibit that. Relations between FA and our main ally TG are also severly strained almost to the point of outright war due to TG's seemingly uncaring and violent view towards any faction other than its own. So, with our own problems and no close ally to speak of, we can't do much of anything. When DoY comes around though, expect FA to become much more powerful and agressive than it is now, because we'll be allied to DoY, which will, at least for a few months, easily be the most powerful faction in the game.
Crahn Sect's numbers look to be diminishing, though I still wouldn't rule them out as a force to reckon with. They're allies with DB, and appear to be allies with TT, so I'm guessing they don't do much because they see no need to.
Protopharma seems to be growing, but I don't know enough about them to really say much.
Diamond, Biotech, NEXT are all weak as shit, and most of their members are there either for novelty or for epic stuff.
Originally posted by VetteroX
When I arrived on this server, the J's were filled with wb hunters, now they are desolate at peak times... ive pked everyone there is to pk, I joined because I started joining cartel op wars out of sheer boredom, wanted a fight, got to know the members and was at op wars every day so I was invited and joined.
I honestly think if we want more enemies to fight we have got to MAKE enemies, kill as many people as possible, patrol fire mob/wb hunting areas and kill people, disrupt leveling, follow tradeskillers up to their apts and kill them, pk people in aggie cellars, in swamp caves, everywhere. make people mad and want to come after us. First, it would be easier to believe that first paragraph if I didnt see you at the bunker last night. You actually WAITED there for about 5 minutes hoping someone would show up for you to PK.
Yeah... you joined Cartel for the op raids... :rolleyes:
And you didnt even say hi to my newb PPU when she said hello.:(
Second, if you really think that PKing people in the aggie sewers will help even out the op situation... well... not much can be said about that. Gee, your methods have worked great so far... lets push it even further. :rolleyes:
And the wastelands arent empty- they just have more LE runners now. Hmmmm... correlation perhaps?
Yeah keep it up Vett. You are this games greatest asset. gort is foolish for trying to actually make the game fun for people.
Originally posted by Strych9
Yeah keep it up Vett. You are this games greatest asset. gort is foolish for trying to actually make the game fun for people.
strych9 i do pitty you...
at the end of the day Cartel > you
and omg this post is still open and hasnt had a keep it in game post. :eek:
but yet again this has turned into "ohhhhh your making this game crappy by doing what you want to do....."
at the end of the day we pay for the game and can play it anyway we want! and if you have a prob sort your lifes out stop PKing same fac. and try to get us of the map...
Saturns fucked up....All i want to do is PK but i cant join BD because ill be a faction jumper thingie dude and theyll PK me even though ive been like BD on pluto for like forever...People say i cant go TG because the germans dont like the english or some shit O_o So where do i go?...
And Vet does make the game fun for people, just not all the people that suck and die all the time...
Oh and how will them fighting TT help anything? So the map can be one colour? Only option is for other clans to get better, its not hardly theyre fault.
Anyways ive probably missed stuff out, got stuff wrong but whatever, havent even been on saturn a week.
Originally posted by L3m0n
strych9 i do pitty you...
at the end of the day Cartel > you
I'll leave this for Strych
but yet again this has turned into "ohhhhh your making this game crappy by doing what you want to do....."
Nope it hasn't, people are trying to grind what can break the one (or two) sidedness of the server. BD set itself goals and achieved those, this is wrecking the server now (as implied by g0rt) and something has to be done.
and if you have a prob sort your lifes out stop PKing same fac. and try to get us of the map...
Yet again, g0rt adressed the problem not the other players on Saturn (see 1st post :rolleyes: ) The in-faction PK'ing is primarily one clan and can hardly be adressed at the same time as the whole server.
TBH, I found Vets post more constructive, and that's worrying me :wtf: 8|
Vets posts usually are in some way or another (constructive that is) You just have to laugh about or ignore the egotistical bits.
Some people let theyre own personal "stuff" get in the way of impartialy viewing what is being said. Thats why Vet and others get flamed so much. I try to avoid doing it ;)
Original monk
27-02-04, 16:59
Originally posted by L3m0n
and omg this post is still open and hasnt had a keep it in game post. :eek:
Thats because this thread doesnt involve ingame stuff but involves the discussion about powershifts and stuff on saturn.
here ya have the quote again:
Originally posted by Nidhogg
This thread is to discuss how the balance of power on Saturn may be re-distributed amongst the factions in order to introduce variation and new conflict. It is not a thread for slagging off the clans that make up the existing power base.
N
ya see
to everyone here a good weekend, i can leave early from work today cause i worked sooo long yesterday :P
cu ingame
The sad thing about anyone who joined BD a while back for genuine reasons, are now labelled faction hoppers=/ A mate and I made PE's a while back with the sole intention of being PK'ers. We arent looking to join the super power clans (or any clan at the minute for that matter), and we've decided that our characters will hate all factions except BD, so everyone is fair game. Hell I levelled mostly in the outzone and in CM territory, and I bet I'll still get called a faction hopper riding on the tails of one clans success. If anyone is riding on the backs of others its Protopharma. When TG was the major power, PP stuck with them to level in the caves and at CRP, now that BD is in charge PP stik with them.
Originally posted by L3m0n
strych9 i do pitty you...
at the end of the day Cartel > you
and omg this post is still open and hasnt had a keep it in game post. :eek:
but yet again this has turned into "ohhhhh your making this game crappy by doing what you want to do....."
at the end of the day we pay for the game and can play it anyway we want! and if you have a prob sort your lifes out stop PKing same fac. and try to get us of the map... Wow. Yet ANOTHER Cartel lacky that doesnt seem to realize what gort is trying to do.
If all that mattered was you playing the game any way you want, then this thread would have never been started.
Thanks for your pity. LOL. I guess maybe if I had more to do at work you wouldnt think I cared at ALL at you or your pity.
You guys keep playing the game the way you want to. Just stop whining then about the game not being fun... you OWN CLAN LEADER indicated
What can be done now to turn Saturn's Outpost scene back into an action packed one?... so lets see... you playing the game the way youwant = boring outpost scene, lacking action.
Enjoy.
err umm sex?
just to carry on the dumb cartel steriotype thing:p
Hehe.
I have nothing against Cartel. Certainly nothing personal. I dont agree with the idea that PKing newbs in aggie sewers will in some way increase outpost action, but I am willing to concede that is just a difference of opinion. No biggie.
I do think there are two things struggling here:
1. What is best for the game
2. What you enjoy doing
Sadly, those two things come into conflict sometimes.
For example, in early retail when that one clan cheated/exploited and ended up with hundreds of illegal slotenhancers and tons of duped 5 slotted rare weaps.
Was that fun for them? Sure.
Was it good for the game? No. It destroyed the rare pool and the economy at the time.
Is what Cartel is doing the same? Of course not.
But is one clan taking over so many ops, and then keeping them because they enjoy it while at the same time they complain that the outpost scene lacks action... good for the game?
I guess thats up for people to decide on their own.
Its clear that gort realizes that the game itself... at least in the sense of the outpost action... is being negatively impacted, and he is interested in what can be done to change it.
Its clear other Cartel members are not interested in making the outpost scene more fun or action filled. And that is fine too. Just disappointing to see after such a honest and productive first post by gort.
Hope that clarifies my views on this subject.
Originally posted by Strych9
I have nothing against Cartel. Certainly nothing personal. I dont agree with the idea that PKing newbs in aggie sewers will in some way increase outpost action, but I am willing to concede that is just a difference of opinion. No biggie.I think the idea is that it will create enemies for Cartel, and that will spur rival clans to try to take OPs from them.
well tbh at the time of g0rt posting the ops sence had become stagnent.
FA have made a play for ops post the start of this thread, and CM looked like they have got a force togeather again( counted between 12-15 of them at a fight last night)
the one that confuses me is TG, ASEN at times ive looked and they have had over 10+ people on at one time, and that was post midnight GMT as well, yet they seem to do nothing, i mean are they honestly happy holding grant and grant alone?
TG have a rich heritage of good clans be it the smaller more pker clans like Blood Brothers, Chaos(putus malus and cursed loves clan)to the power house clans like ND, yet now, TG have to large clans asen and final resistance, yet what do they do? nothing, styke9 your TG so you proberbly know whats going on more than me, but to me, ok you can lay blame at cartel for owning all the ops, or temps for same reason, but them CM are as much to blame for not fighting for them back(until last night-and before any mercs shoot me down i aint having a go at you)FA well they have had Pro an active clan for a while yet they only seem to be doing something now, again after this thread popped up(of course they face the prob that both TT and BD hate them)
ok so we got CM, who BD hate but TT wont help against.
but if TG or FA show up on the map both BD and TT have a interest in removing them from the map.
what we need rather than the removal of cartel to another faction, is for another faction to group togeather, gather there runners and make a play.
imo biotech are a good choice for that, as they are enemies of TT but allied to BD, so in theory BD shouldnt interfere in that war.
just a small take on the situation anyway, might add more later if my brain starts working again
Originally posted by Glok
I think the idea is that it will create enemies for Cartel, and that will spur rival clans to try to take OPs from them. Yeah I understand the reasoning behind it, but if PKing newbs ever inspired them to form clans or join clans and take Ops from Cartel, I think by now Cartel would be begging for permission to use an op, if you follow me. :)
The Cartel has enemies. BD has enemies. They dont need to be created.
Yes there are some people that may be inspired by a newb gank. More often than not though, I think the newb gank would inspire them to put in their LE and leave it in, or just dismiss the Cartel runner as an ass.
Heck, if Vett (or whoever) would send a message advising his victims about how their death is about to be brought about by Cartel and Black Dragon, and maybe RP the faction aspect of it, I think it just might work the way they want.
It could work like this- the PKer is in local chat, types out a message saying about how "the Cartel is gonna remove all enemy factions from the area. If you have a problem, please take it up with Cartel management." Type it out but dont submit it yet. Then run to the bunker, switch to chat mode, hit enter and say the stament on local, then start PKing all the newbs you want. Then, at least, the victims have a record in local chat of who killed them and why. THEN maybe they will make a mental note of the whole affair.
People may like or not like Teh Law, but from what I saw on their webpage, at least some of the times their targets know exactly who killed them and why.
As it is right now, the newb 2/21 unclanned droner that a Cartel runner PKd at the bunker last night (shant name names) had no idea WHO killed them or WHAT faction. Even if they knew those two things, what about the droner gank would make the droner think "hey, I need to join a clan and try and take BD/Cartel ops so I can get even?"
More than likely, the gank will be dismissed as just a gank, not some bold factional statement worthy of retaliation.
Just my opinion.
Originally posted by Strych9
It could work like this- the PKer is in local chat, types out a message saying about how "the Cartel is gonna remove all enemy factions from the area. If you have a problem, please take it up with Cartel management." Type it out but dont submit it yet. Then run to the bunker, switch to chat mode, hit enter and say the stament on local, then start PKing all the newbs you want. Then, at least, the victims have a record in local chat of who killed them and why. THEN maybe they will make a mental note of the whole affair. If only. But Vet ain't an RPer, he is an egomaniac. I note that he has a tradeskiller, but do you think he would log his skiller for someone else? No, it is only for him to get PKing tools. I won't even mention the irony of him saying 'Thisz0r gaem is PvP' and having a tradeskiller that can't fight....
Everyone thinks thier the shit at this game. Everything thinks they are better then everyone else. Vets just one of hte few people that actually says it haha.
As for pking in the aggy cellars, to be completely honest...one of the best ways to piss off an entire server is to daily camp both aggy pits and pk all the noobs then all the high level alts that come down. With soullight its difficult, but can be done in shifts.
Then again, it hurts the noobs and may make people leave the game thinking they will never be able to level in peace, or something....
Originally posted by g0rt
Then again, it hurts the noobs and may make people leave the game thinking they will never be able to level in peace, or something.... Let me say that it SHOULDNT make them think that, but yes, it quite often does.
For every noob that rises to the challenge, there are countless others that are continually having to be talked into staying in the game.
Ideally, noobs would get pissed and try to get even. From the ones I have seen in game and talked to and helped out, more often they just get pissed. o_O
Edit: the problem is that they dont know who or what or why any of it is happening, so the assumption is that "some PKer is just being an ass."
Seriously... to all PKers that kill newbs... if you just would put in a LITTLE time to explain the reasons behind your actions, you would receive a LOT less flak from people about this. :(
Bah this is way off topic. Hehe. What else is new. :)
spikeownzu
27-02-04, 23:27
BD and TT is so big
thats why map is 2 toned
nobody else can compete
although, im not sure TT is that big.. but they can support OPs because they have BD
I've been away and missed most of this discussion, so all I'll say is this - things rarely stay still for long when there is a stalemate. Balance will shift like the tides, whether slowly or very rapidly.
Major Havoc
28-02-04, 03:15
Erm... Big thread! Not sure if I've replied already (apologies if I have).
Seems to me, from a RP slant, that DRE should own all the OP's, and maybe hire CM to defend them as necessary.
Maybe Cartel want to move DRE, take *all* the OP's, and consider hiring CM to defend those OP's ninjai'ed as you slumber...
DRE own; CM defend; <Insert Faction/Clan> hire on a daily/weekly/monthly basis as per agreement with DRE (DRE take their cut, CM take their cut, <Insert Faction/Clan> reap the financial/Ress/CST/HCK bonus).
This is a MMORPG, right?
Or is it just a FPS on a bigger server?
Originally posted by Glok
I think the idea is that it will create enemies for Cartel, and that will spur rival clans to try to take OPs from them.
Far from that imo
if we're talking new players here and not alts, then p'king will most of them sod off and play some different game. gg
a level, let's say 20 or whatever, doesnt even know about these so called politics, they can't be bothered.
gettin' pk'ed there all the time is not fun when you're new to this game.
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