View Full Version : Let mobs drop the rare items, screw the parts
superfresh
25-02-04, 08:18
There's so many parts out there its silly. Why not just have mobs have whatever chance to drop whatever rare item, in poor condition, no slots, and let researchers and constructors be able to work with them. It's a PvP game after all, so who really cares who gets what. Would also give a whole new importance to tradeskilling.
Originally posted by superfresh
There's so many parts out there its silly. Why not just have mobs have whatever chance to drop whatever rare item, in poor condition, no slots, and let researchers and constructors be able to work with them. It's a PvP game after all, so who really cares who gets what. Would also give a whole new importance to tradeskilling.
Why are items called "Rare" anyways?? There is not a single weapon in the game that is rare.. They should be called "Unique" but not rare.. Secondly this is not the best of ideas.. Maybe an alternative to getting these "rare" weapons but not this.. Maybe something like the strange book, or a quest that can only be done once, or a special mob like the larent hovercraft.. but I dont know! :( Just because it is PvP doesnt mean everything has to be handed to you.. If they ar emob dropable why not just sell them at vendors than?? :)
Edit: On another note, I would like to see something that is RARE like something that there is one or two of... :) Like the Larent Drugs and Mods are VERY rare...
good bye ress and constr chars :)
i always wanted runs for parts :)
it will keep u goin all day and no run is alike but the first guy is :)
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 08:37
Originally posted by BombShell
good bye ress and constr chars :)
i always wanted runs for parts :)
it will keep u goin all day and no run is alike but the first guy is :) turrets/drones/leveling weapons?
My PPU only ever used one rare item ... PSI Core....
superfresh
25-02-04, 08:37
Take a person who spent like 3 months farming parts for a CS. He/she finally gets it built and its a no slotter. They have a clear disadvantage against the dude thats got a 4-5 slotter. So its back to scraping up crap, even if he/she is already capped. Pointless waste of time IMO, especially considering the way the economy is on many servers. No parts means more action, and at the same time more involvement for tradeskillers, at least, more frequent "important" jobs.
Make rares have the same slot chance as anything else, but make them blueprintable. If it's a PvP game, why make people wait to get involved? Plus, most say that it's a skill-based game, so what does it matter how many slots anyone has in their gear?
Plus, call it a "timesink", call it whatever. We all know theres too much time spent in NC doing things you DONT enjoy doing. Why not just do away with those things?
[edit] And no Bombshell, you could have it so the mobs drop the worst possible quality of the items, and make it so they could be researched and built. Maybe even make it so the chance for 5 slots is astronomical, and make high level weapon parts more valuable, so that weapon part 10's might be worth more than recycling junk. Maybe that the parts themselves cost a lot more than they do now and sell for more. If this were the system then Consters and Ressers would be at least as important as they are now.
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 08:38
Originally posted by superfresh
Take a person who spent like 3 months farming parts for a CS. He/she finally gets it built and its a no slotter. They have a clear disadvantage against the dude thats got a 4-5 slotter. So its back to scraping up crap, even if he/she is already capped. Pointless waste of time IMO, especially considering the way the economy is on many servers. No parts means more action, and at the same time more involvement for tradeskillers, at least, more frequent "important" jobs.
Make rares have the same slot chance as anything else, but make them blueprintable. If it's a PvP game, why make people wait to get involved? Plus, most say that it's a skill-based game, so what does it matter how many slots anyone has in their gear?
Plus, call it a "timesink", call it whatever. We all know theres too much time spent in NC doing things you DONT enjoy doing. Why not just do away with those things? this isn't the actual problem, I would be more likely to say "CLEAN UP THE FRIGGIN LOOT POOL", just doin that would fix it, heh.
WOW! I like the idea so much that I gave this thread ... one star.
Don't turn Neocron into a simplistic shooter. Thank you. 8|
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
this isn't the actual problem, I would be more likely to say "CLEAN UP THE FRIGGIN LOOT POOL", just doin that would fix it, heh.
They need to completely rethink the "rare" item thing, parts is kind of stupid in my opinion! Especially with how many "rare" weapons there are!!
Originally posted by superfresh
Take a person who spent like 3 months farming parts for a CS. He/she finally gets it built and its a no slotter. They have a clear disadvantage against the dude thats got a 4-5 slotter. So its back to scraping up crap, even if he/she is already capped. Pointless waste of time IMO, especially considering the way the economy is on many servers. No parts means more action, and at the same time more involvement for tradeskillers, at least, more frequent "important" jobs.
Make rares have the same slot chance as anything else, but make them blueprintable. If it's a PvP game, why make people wait to get involved? Plus, most say that it's a skill-based game, so what does it matter how many slots anyone has in their gear?
Plus, call it a "timesink", call it whatever. We all know theres too much time spent in NC doing things you DONT enjoy doing. Why not just do away with those things?
Even in the simplist games like Planetside you have to work for what you want!! You cant have everything given to you!
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 08:43
Originally posted by Kasumi
They need to completely rethink the "rare" item thing, parts is kind of stupid in my opinion! Especially with how many "rare" weapons there are!!
I suppose a horizon's style crafting thing would be a decent idea..
superfresh
25-02-04, 08:47
Originally posted by sparrowtm
WOW! I like the idea so much that I gave this thread ... one star.
Don't turn Neocron into a simplistic shooter. Thank you. 8|
I knew this wouldn't be a hit idea from the getgo, but think if it was hard as hell to get 4-5 slotters, and it really came down to the consters...
Originally posted by superfresh
I knew this wouldn't be a hit idea from the getgo, but think if it was hard as hell to get 4-5 slotters, and it really came down to the consters...
There I agree. Though then they had to change the importance of slots as well. A rare weapon with excellent stats and only two slots can be more effective than a badly constructed 4-slotter as it is.
superfresh
25-02-04, 09:02
Originally posted by sparrowtm
There I agree. Though then they had to change the importance of slots as well. A rare weapon with excellent stats and only two slots can be more effective than a badly constructed 4-slotter as it is.
Aye, and what if the conster was actually at an advantage capping his/her construction skill, which, if slots are random, they are not. Tradeskillers would be more sought after, there would be more active PvP, there would be more faction diversity (since people could safely get rares no matter what faction they are in), and most importantly, players could do whatever it is they enjoy doing most of the time.
Right now it seems you HAVE to hunt parts to compete, at least with the better players, and it gets annoying once youve played for so long. Plus it would help the newer players defend themselves better.
[edit] 2 more ideas -
The item can only be researched once, the BP cannot be researched.
Once built, the item degrades quicker than they do now, repairs worse, etc..
it would be nice if there was a smaller rare pool. perhaps a couple rares could be graduated out of the tech parts pool and into "item drop".
I don't like the idea of rares being researchable though
right now a five slotted rare has quite a bit of value, especially if it's a high TL one such that the slots are actually usefull.
Items to be taken out of rare pool and turned into drops imo:
Paw of Tiger (new swamp mob? same sorta lvl as WB?))
Electric Tempest(WB or other roboty mob?)
Vein RIpper
Wyatt Earp
BEam of Hell
Executioner
Thunderstorm
Healing light (not too sure tho)
Ravager
Malediction
Antibuff
The 'rare' barrels
catharsis
anti poison sanc
holy para
Revenge
PN
v0.9 slotty(WBs?)
v1.5 slotty(WBs?)
the ultimas (WBs?)
all that would be a nice start... than the rare pool would not be so full of useless shit... this way the main important weaponsd will not be so hard to get hold of as you dont need to filter through the useless parts, keep the parts but we do need less of them.
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 10:15
Originally posted by spongeb0b
Items to be taken out of rare pool and turned into drops imo:
BEam of Hell
Executioner
Healing light (not too sure tho)
Ravager
Malediction
The 'rare' barrels
Revenge
PN
all that would be a nice start... than the rare pool would not be so full of useless shit... this way the main important weaponsd will not be so hard to get hold of as you dont need to filter through the useless parts, keep the parts but we do need less of them. To the ones I've left on this list;
WHY?!?!
It makes No Sense! Apart from possibly drones.
but no.
Dribble Joy
25-02-04, 10:36
O_o
sponge been smoking summat funny methinks.
I would have thought all the testing at suking would have shown the boh is far from crap.
Nightbrother
25-02-04, 10:40
The executioner and the Malediction should not be dropped whole either, imo, since both are used extensively. I'm not sure how many people use the Exe for PvP, but it hurts like hell if you stay at the right distance. You need a good aim though, if you're gonna use it for PvP.
Ravager and Healing Light, not sure about those either, but I wouldnt mind if the rest of SpongeBob's list were to be changed to whole drops instead of parts.
Me thinks sponge just wants rid of the ones he doesnt like or use tbh.
Rare Pool needs to be cleaned up or implement the book drops for all rares and make runs out of them.
Mighty Max
25-02-04, 12:34
Some ppl still play this game not as _just another FPS_
That wouldnt be to clever now would it?
It would take away a large part of the game too.
angelsenior
25-02-04, 13:11
@Kasumi
I think you got your definitions for RARE and UNIQUE turned upside down.
RARE is what is available in some numbers but difficult to find (just as the rares are now, search the parts to get it, not possible to buy easily in stores).
UNIQUE means theres ONLY ONE.
I do second the Idea that there are too many rares in the rare pool (certainly for melee) and also useless rares as the stats are too low/no slots.
It could be possible to have rare weapons drop as the complete item with low stats AND have a certain type of upgrade item (which must be found also) to upgrade the item stats slowly.
as an example;
you find a rare weapon with 80% damage stat and no slots, a CSTer can use an upgrade item to add 5% to the stats, this process can be repeated until the stats reach the maximum of 120%, the next upgrade would add 1 slot etc.. till finally all stats are 120% and the weapon has 5 slots.
The good part of this is that you need a CSTer through the whole process, making them more needed in the game.
Also, any rare weapon, however his stats are screwed, can become a 5 slotter and thus isnt useless.
As this eliminates the need for mods adding stats to the weapon, the slots can be used for ammo/scope/flashlight/silencer etc...
Also, as a weapon degrades, its stats should degrade also so you will need a CSTer regularly to bring the stats back to 120%.
Also, there a chance the upgrade will fail.
The upgrades themselves should only be sorted like 1 type per category (theres 1 rifle upgrade, 1 pistol upgrade, 1 spell upgrade, 1 hc weapon upgrade, 1 imp upgrade, 1 drone upgrade, 1 melee weapon upgrade), the stats they add is a random 5 percent (could be to damage, could be to range etc.. but you ALWAYS get 5 percent, a stat which has 120%, wont be upgraded and the points go to the other stats instead).
This is so that these upgrades are not too difficult to find and are usefull for several different weapons.
The upgrades can be used for low tl weapons too.
The Rare weapons themselves should drop like 1 in 200 mobs or something, the upgrades like 1 per 3-5 mobs.
i'm open to critisisism i'm not too worried what gets removed from rare pool or not... done that list in a hurry before work this morning, but i would like to see some new mobs, (possibly related somehow to the rare) to drop the whole rare, ie (only a suggestion) holy pest dropped by a 120/120 poison mob in the swamps somewhere? that is what i meant, the fusion weps dropped by some sort of deranged TG soldier mob maybe? like stormbots but TG soldiers if that makes sense? read the descriptions on the weapons and it'll give you some background to it, the mob that drops it can be related to the story somehow? idk, whtever??:rolleyes:
Devils Grace
25-02-04, 15:09
Originally posted by superfresh
im a lazy bastard and i do not want to hunt for them kuz its boring and very dificult, and i want things done for me by someone else
i say u are right:o
Psyco Groupie
25-02-04, 15:33
No tech parts are rare, only mc5 are remotely rare .. go hunting you lazy bast
I dont think the poster of this thread is 100% clued in on constructing rares. :rolleyes:
Slots dont always mean much with rares EXCEPT in the fact that they may break slower with more slots.
If I construct a 120%/120%/120%/120% libby, that is damn near as much of a libby as you will ever need. An ammo mod would be nice, sure, but as it is that gun would be JUST FINE without a SINGLE slot.
If I construct a 110%/112%/115%/110% libby, that gun would need at least 2 slots to be able to even come close to the first one, and thats assuming you have a pistol ultima mod. If you dont have a pistol ultima mod, then that libby would need 5 slots, period, to hope to be as good as the first one with no slots.
And given that slots AND quality is random on rares- no, it DOESNT come down to the constructor. It never comes down to a constructor actually- once you reach the point that you can build items to cap quality, you are the same as everyone else that can do the same thing. :)
Deanus_willis
25-02-04, 15:40
Half the fun of neocron is not knowing everyone elses set-up, excpet cookie cut ones of course.
If you give people the ability to keep constructing the same weapon over and over everyone will have a 5 slot... well everything. thats not right, people should have to work for these weapons that give such an advantage. Thats the point of working for them
I say no, but thanks
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 15:43
Erm, strych, as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't gone a ammo mod (pistol/rifle/cannon), it ain't worth my time...
Add book drops and runs so that everytime I get rares I dont have to shout on trade like a gobshite looking for ressers and it also gives me something to do with my time.
Devils Grace
25-02-04, 16:00
so ur problem is u dont have ressers on ur server:rolleyes:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Erm, strych, as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't gone a ammo mod (pistol/rifle/cannon), it ain't worth my time... Okay think about this.
Why is it sometimes a PoB works better than a DG? Its because the DG does energy damage which some people can resist better than pierce.
Same applies to ammo mods. Even more so with the upcoming changes to mob armor (if talking about PvM of course). Or on a malediction- it does force and energy. If you add the fire mod, and then attack a tank with inq4, its possible it will do LESS damage than otherwise (since without the mod it would do more energy).
I know its rare that may be the case- but an all 120% artifact libby is still useful.
Granted an ammo mod helps (I even allowed that to be the one thing you would need), but the point is that an all 120% artifact with a single slot for the ammo mod is as good as it gets. :)
superfresh
25-02-04, 16:15
Originally posted by Devils Grace
so ur problem is u dont have ressers on ur server:rolleyes:
The problem is, after you've hunted the same critters for a year and keep scraping for the same rare parts, you realize what a senseless waste of time it is. It also detracts from the game's longevity.
Originally posted by superfresh
The problem is, after you've hunted the same critters for a year and keep scraping for the same rare parts, you realize what a senseless waste of time it is. It also detracts from the game's longevity. You hunted the same critters for a year, and you think the game has a longevity problem????
I partly agree, because things like the slot enharncers need to be full drops, but having the rest of it a full drop is just stupid.
superfresh
25-02-04, 16:36
Originally posted by Strych9
You hunted the same critters for a year, and you think the game has a longevity problem????
I think a year is a long time for any player. The average person wont have as great a tolerance for endless warbots and firemobs.
Weapon with ammo mod>weapon without ammo mod.
Always.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Weapon with ammo mod>weapon without ammo mod.
Always. I assume you mean with all other stats the same???? :)
So against a monk with a heavy poison belt, haz 3 running, and a lot of poison resists, a poison modded nailgun would still do more damage than a non-modded nailgun?
Not sure how to tell you.
A- Laser rifle no modded against monk with all energy armor and all his points in energy resists.
B- Laser rifle modded with fire against the same monk.
C- Laser rifle modded with energy ammo against the same monk.
A- Laser rifle without ammo mod against a tank with all his con points in fire and full inq
B- Laser rifle with fire ammo mod against tank with all con points into fire (zero energy) and full inq armor
C- Laser rifle with energy mod against the same tank
Can you test these results?
/edit: if you want I can help you in testserver with this, I have time.
Last time I did A always did less damage than B and C.
I can be wrong, but when it comes to resists... I dont want to think much in it, it gives me a head ache.
I did this in retail time ago, I'd also want to do it in TS with proper results.
Consider this an invitation to help me in the test, and also to prove your theory right.
Just one thing... if you want to do it with pierce no problem, just dont use poison as it is a very underpowered damage.
Use liberator or wyatt for pierce, modded with x-ray or fire.
I still believe lib x-ray/fire modded with deal more damage to a monk with all his points into x-ray/fire.
I havent tested this tho, as pierce is a weird damage type resisted by force.
Ack, I am not on the test server. But the 'C' items I am not interested in, since that ammo mod just boosts the standard type of damage the weapon does- so I would expect it to alway do more damage, period.
But the second 'B' item I would be interested in seeing. Your whole first group, dealing with the monk, all makes perfect sense. The monk is resistant to energy, so a gun that does energy and fire would do more damage, as would a gun that does even more energy. So that all makes sense.
But your second grouping is what I am talking about. In the second grouping, with the tank, the laser rifle does energy and the tank resists fire. So my thought is that 'A', a plain laser rifle, should do more damage than 'B' where the rifle is modded with fire.
If that is not the case, then I stand corrected.
And I never did any testing to this (which is why I asked you about the monk and the nailgun, rather than stating it as fact...hehe). But I noticed that when you mod a weapon the primary damage type decreases with the addition of a new damage type. So the question is that "is the overall increase in total damage done enough to override the effect of resistance the target might have against the new damage type?"
I am not on the test server but would love to see the results to see what the difference is.
Shadow Dancer
25-02-04, 18:06
The overall damage increases. Unless of course the person has like 0 resist to the primary damage type, and like capped resist against the 2nd damage type. Then in that super extremely unlikely case, :p, the "pure" unmodded gun should do more damage.
Promethius
25-02-04, 18:07
Didn't bother to read any of the posts after looking at the title.
definetly no. Shouldn't be that easy to obtain a RARE, also I've never seen a mutant mob running around with a Cursed Soul....so why should they drop one?
Just because something is hard to obtain doesn't mean u should be handed it instead.
-Prom
Psyco Groupie
25-02-04, 18:09
well this thread was fun
superfresh
25-02-04, 18:14
I think there's a difference between "hard to get" and "time consuming to get".
But o well. Was worth a shot.
Psyco Groupie
25-02-04, 18:16
Find someone to trade with, create a pool with friends ... you can also buy full weapons if your a lazy bum
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
The overall damage increases. Unless of course the person has like 0 resist to the primary damage type, and like capped resist against the 2nd damage type. Then in that super extremely unlikely case, :p, the "pure" unmodded gun should do more damage. Well, thats what I was advocating... the super extremely rare case. :)
Not that this matters, but I am interested to see if the overall net increase in damage WOULD outweigh any possible resist setup.
Shadow Dancer
25-02-04, 18:28
Originally posted by Strych9
Not that this matters, but I am interested to see if the overall net increase in damage WOULD outweigh any possible resist setup.
They don't outweigh every possible resist setup, but they do outweigh most. If you encounter someone that fits in the "extremely unlikely event" category, then they'll die super fast anyway with such lame resists. :p
Bah my brain hurts.
Yea Strych9 your theory should work, don't know why it didn't in my test, maybe I did something wrong.
Anyway you can do it in retail. If you have a monk strip him of armors, get a tank to use normal ammo with his CS to fire at you and write the damage, then tell him to use x-ray or fire mod (whatever) and write again the damage.
Use a fire belt in the second part or your natural resists against x-ray, they are not capped but should count. Ideally it should be capped, but with 50% resist in the modded damage it should deal less than unmodded.
I gotta stop hijacking threads :p
darknessfairy
25-02-04, 18:41
well this thread went way off topic... i thought it was about how rares drop not how slots effect dmg... o_O
superfresh
25-02-04, 18:49
Ok so either the people posting hated the idea or aren't talking about anything remotely related to it.
Mods please close the lid on this coffin.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.