View Full Version : 25 psi for spy's ?
Original monk
24-02-04, 17:10
cause of another thread here i make a separate poll, should spy's get there 20 psi upped to 25 ?? and in wich subskill should there be points removed then ?? str ? con ? whateva ?
yust wanted to know what you guys think ... will spy's turn into pe's with 25 psi ?? would it overpower spy's ?? what ya think ?
lots of it been discussed before, so i make a small poll to bring it back to youre attention.
good luck and enjoy posting
Psyco Groupie
24-02-04, 17:17
Just make yes / no / other poll
fricken idiot
*abstains* (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91945)
Mumblyfish
24-02-04, 17:18
No, spies are fine, and in my opinion they should be aimed towards being more ANTI-monk. Hi-tech gadgets, versatility, and speed. Not PE with worse armour.
Cue a load of idiots who think spies aren't fine...
Edt: As a sidenote, "OMG DROM" jokes/polls aren't funny anymore. Stop it.
Dribble Joy
24-02-04, 17:20
NO.
Spies are not PEs.
Gulinborsti
24-02-04, 17:21
Yeah, and raise PEs DEX to 90 and/or INT to 75 too!!! No, remove the whole skill caps on all classes ... :wtf:
Hell NOOOO!!!!
spy will still get pawn with 25 psi but they might put up more of a fight with a shelter :P
giveing spies + 5 Psi would infringe too much on pe's. only way to balance this would be up pe's psi by 5 but that could be to game imbalancing to do
yea i think its a great idea, people just vote no because they dont wanna see spies beating them up :p
the spies con already absolutly sucks, and str. it would just mean we wudnt have to drug to use them, and i think it would really help PvP
it would just mean we wudnt have to drug to use them
The "we" in that sentence explains why you are so narrow-minded.
Spys needs to be boosted in this way imo: The high-lvl rifels should do more damage, don't make them PEs ffs. SD needs to be self-cast only though. Imagine spys, takin an APU out in a few SH hits to the head. Tanks will die at some point too if they do not get a heal.
i dont see the problem with drugging up for shelter i do it myself along with taking beast drug.
or perhaps i should have a thread asking for spies str to be raised by 5 or somthing;)
Originally posted by Xizor
The "we" in that sentence explains why you are so narrow-minded.
Spys needs to be boosted in this way imo: The high-lvl rifels should do more damage, don't make them PEs ffs. SD needs to be self-cast only though. Imagine spys, takin an APU out in a few SH hits to the head. Tanks will die at some point too if they do not get a heal.
how is this narrow minded?
it is what EVERY spy has to do to use shelter, drug up the extra 5 psi, so everyone is saying spies should have 25 psi because "it would make them more like pe's"
thats officially the worst excuse ive ever heard in my life
What 5 are you gonna drop?
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
Just make yes / no / other poll
...
yup, you option sucks.
but i vote would vote NO
if you want easy shelter play PE
EDIT:ok for those who dont like the "play PE" option. what would you like to drop? DEX or INT? dont you think tradeskillers dont like to be cut off 25points just because of the "i want to use shelter" Spys?
If you want shelter just make a pure combat spy and drug for shelter like some PE's drug for boosters
$tormbringer
24-02-04, 17:55
im a spy myself
dont raise the psi... if a spy wants shelter he drugs up easy isnt it?....
i wouldnt mind to see spys with
-psi to spy armor -5 psi to all armor
make these bones to these req
-leg-con
arm-str-
chest-con
head-str
foot-dex
but leive gamma boes alone because monks shouldnt hav them sorry guys :)
and for a long time make darnit armor into dex
all spys hav is their small con and half ass resis
see u can get around 65-70% resis on ur spys
around 300-400 life
run at ok speed to be able to compete in a 1v1 close combat battle.
thats all wut spys need in their defensive powers
me for one dont think spys should get shelter with this setup or at all. Spys are not Pe's :).
and honestly would kk ever change the stats on chars. i think their pretty much set. thay can pretty much take the bak door.
Originally posted by BombShell
i wouldnt mind to see spys with
-psi to spy armor -5 psi to all armor
make these bones to these req
-leg-con
arm-str-
chest-con
head-str
foot-dex
but leive gamma boes alone because monks shouldnt hav them sorry guys :)
and for a long time make darnit armor into dex
all spys hav is their small con and half ass resis
see u can get around 65-70% resis on ur spys
around 300-400 life
run at ok speed to be able to compete in a 1v1 close combat battle.
thats all wut spys need in their defensive powers
me for one dont think spys should get shelter with this setup or at all. Spys are not Pe's :).
and honestly would kk ever change the stats on chars. i think their pretty much set. thay can pretty much take the bak door.
exactly
Load_HeavyLoad
24-02-04, 18:16
Heres my thought,
Giving spies shelter would not overpower them at all but just make them nearly as good as PEs but with more offense, my idea instead would be to take 10 away from psi and stick it onto STR enabling them to use level one armour, or you can be really pickie and add on 9 then they can have 41 con so to make a bettter setup, this would make the spy viable in PvP without being like the PE, but anyway food for thought:rolleyes:
Mumblyfish
24-02-04, 18:22
Spies are already viable in PvP.
OH NO! YOUR ARGUMENT HAS FALLEN IN THE WATER!!
Psyco Groupie
24-02-04, 18:36
Originally posted by BombShell
i wouldnt mind to see spys with
-psi to spy armor -5 psi to all armor
make these bones to these req
-leg-con
arm-str-
chest-con
head-str
foot-dex
but leive gamma boes alone because monks shouldnt hav them sorry guys :)
and for a long time make darnit armor into dex
all spys hav is their small con and half ass resis
see u can get around 65-70% resis on ur spys
around 300-400 life
run at ok speed to be able to compete in a 1v1 close combat battle.
thats all wut spys need in their defensive powers
me for one dont think spys should get shelter with this setup or at all. Spys are not Pe's :).
and honestly would kk ever change the stats on chars. i think their pretty much set. thay can pretty much take the bak door.
I would have said 'wtf are you typing with' instead of 'exactly'
dont like the ideas or how they are put across
Original monk
24-02-04, 18:56
hehe, seems this is a sensitive subject :)
and i wanted to know opinions and now i have a few opinions :)
i must say that those arguements convinced me ... if ya want a sheltering char then use a pe or sumthing but dont start giving the spy extra defenses cause then it isnt the spy nomore we all know :) certainly not if that spy start putting in strenght imps to yust be a PE but then with hitechrifles :)
as in this is what i read :)
especially xizor said sumthing i had to think about, and i must agree with what he says ... let the spy be what he is intended for, and not make em look like a PE
here is xizor's quote: "Spys needs to be boosted in this way imo: The high-lvl rifels should do more damage, don't make them PEs ffs. Imagine spys, takin an APU out in a few SH hits to the head. Tanks will die at some point too if they do not get a heal."
(i deleted the selfcast item in youre quote cause this is another discussion hehe, but i dont say unviable if they boost spy's so they do greater damage on there rifles :) )
and this is indeed how a spy should work i think ..
also for all people having doubts on my way of posting options:
did you understand the options ?? yes you say ? then that is the most important :), i find yes and no a bit boring ya see ... and the droms: i dont care if they are cool, uncool or sumthing in the middle ... this forum programmed my head: sumthing DROMLIKE = I DUNNO or I DONT CARE ... so droms they will get :P
for all people who answered no, i dont understand them options: here they are in the exact same order as above:
1. yes
2. no
3. i dunno/i dont care
and for psyco groupie: quote:"fricken idiot"
-> ya yust wanted to say that ...
cu later thanx for youre response :)
keep spy's as they are and even boost a littlebit of there damage like xizor said :)
Mumblyfish
24-02-04, 18:57
Spy damage is fine. In fact, spy damage is insanely high AND accurate to boot. Leave it as it is.
DestructionUK
24-02-04, 18:58
yea i think its a great idea, people just vote no because they dont wanna see spies beating them up
no its because spys are not jacks of all trade like PE's have a spy with more psi is basically a pe with higher dex and less strength, which causes many PE's to become obsolete. spys are already viable in pvp, combat spys and generally much more powerful than PE's.
another argument to this is spys are not supposed to tankthrough damage and are meant to be fast and stealthy, if you want to power through damage be a tank otherwise dodgy and stealth spec for an obliteraor and carry a few blockers and youll catch so many people off guard its funny lol.
so many spys have been asking for lower strength reqs on lvl1 armor and now shelter, why doesnt the PE class just get taken out of the game?
............ on another note i wouldnt be opposed to seeing spys be a little faster.
I voted no cause if you want shelter you can drug for it.
Plus +5 to psi means -5 else where and what are you gonna give up? Con or STR?
-5 Str will kill combat spys ability to wear inq armour
-5 Con loseing 25 points on a spys con is alot.
I said no, because you can drug for the extra 5 psi, and spies are already powerful enough. The extra 5 psi wouldn't overpower them... its just not needed. Also I doubt that people would like 5 taken away from either con, str, dex or int. So its probably best to leave it at this stage.
it seems to me any boosts in resists with a spy and people are gonna start moaning about it being like a pe,
oki so it take a bit more damage then before, it may be more like a pe, SO HELL?, even if it is its the worst excuse ive ever seen for it not happening
i find none is ever happy.
believe it or not but many of u peeps are based off my setup.
its just takin a bak door aproach instead of changeing the whole system.
Dex armor is good for low lvls it will help them lvl a bit better with less phear.
and with peeps saying chnage psi to str. well honestly it is liek mine to inq armor is still better then most of darnit and most of the bone imps would be used either way if u go with the current. spy setup.
but the true benefit about this setup is that u are able to use FL or Dis with alot more ez because the imps are freed up. and allow u to get more fre on them.
My understanding Lupus is trying to see about changing the combat req on them to chnage their cap rate. i could be wrong or dreaming of this because its to good to be true.
so honestly i dont see y none likes my idea.
the only thing which i can think of is that it looks like such a big increase when its not.
it will make the spy a reliable class at op wars. because i dont like the fact everyone has to switch chars to hack and 1 to fight.
and about spys having shelter. spys can get 69-70% resis ezy with 350-400 life at the moment just none is able to shoot a gun fast as this type of spy. to a spy combat is mostly burst battles.
and for those that think spys with shelter is not great imagine a PE with a CS with 500+ life uber shelter and hell ath/agl which maybe posible with drugs imps and instead of CS / DEV user @@
now i know i am over doinit with DEV but giving a spy with a shelter and with the 3rd most power weapon of its type
now thats how i see that with shelter and spys. i used to want shelter on Spys but i relized if i want it go PE. but if i want to use h-c go str. y is everyone trying to take the stuff away from everyclass that makes them unq.
Theres no need for that. If a spy wants shelter, he should drug for it.
Spies are fine. Well i'd like the inqui 1 reqs to be lowered by 3 but thats another story...
spies are fine the way they are now.
Jesterthegreat
24-02-04, 21:46
no.
as it stands, if you wanna shelter, drug for it. this isnt coming from a tank / PE or anything, my main character is a 91 base dex pistol spy. as a pistol spy im always in the thick of it s i would love shelter...
however there is no stat i would sacrifice for more psi. it would do far more harm than good.
people say int is useless to a combat spy... heavy belt? PA is -INT you know...
dex? not all spies have pure +dex imps (and before you moan... when PE's stop using +Dex imps, ill stop using +str imps)
str? god now
con? O_o your kidding? need all the con i can get
this idea has been thrown around many many times... and im sure i give a different answer everytime lol :)
just wait for BDoY - Ceres skills... overcap... (if you can overcap any skill that is)
OK reason. spies have no armor for energy or fire! Only belts which you can only wear one at a time so not much use really.
Spies use shelter because it reduces both the energy and fire damage obtained. simple.
Now look at monks armor. An APU has better defense than a spy ffs. And fair enough their armor should give good resists due to the lack of a heal and deflector. However deflector only resists force and peirce yet thats exactly the only armor resist a spy can get.
Make Battle armor 3 give 'some' resists in fire or energy or a low amount in both. It wouldn't overpower PE's because they already get much better armor but it would however help spies.
As for shelter having to drug for it is ok but shouldn't be manditory in order to fight because your armor only resists force and peirce. (Not talking about pa i think spy pa is ok and if it gave any energy resist it would be overpwered!)
lol newbs.....my pistol spy can already use shelter.....drugs for fighting is not illegal or anything....if you know how to set a spy up you can use shelter easy and runcast**
not everyone drugs to fight.
every other class doesnt hav to drug to compete.
even thou most Pe's do but u really dont need to.
Originally posted by BombShell
not everyone drugs to fight.
every other class doesnt hav to drug to compete.
even thou most Pe's do but u really dont need to. but them a spy really with out all the drugs is intended for ranged combat, if you want to do th eclose combat thing then you are talking about taking destrosol and beast to use the inq/dur 1s to compete close range
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/KyleVorgon-destrosol.JPG
It isn't that bad !!!!!!1!
QuantumDelta
24-02-04, 22:36
Originally posted by rhPhMe
lol newbs.....my pistol spy can already use shelter.....drugs for fighting is not illegal or anything....if you know how to set a spy up you can use shelter easy and runcast** lmfao.
I smell somethin, ain't commentin on what it is.
But seriously, how do you expect us to believe that when a fully bred PPU Monk can't runcast TL 25 shelter hmm?
ROFL!
Shadow Dancer
24-02-04, 22:45
I voted no, even though I DON'T think spies are fine atm. Shelter is intruding into pe territory too much IMO. As a matter of fact, their needs to be much bigger different between the spy and the pe. This reminds me of DnD 2nd edition. I feel like the PE is a "kit" subclass of the spy. That's how similar they are. It's rediculous.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Edt: As a sidenote, "OMG DROM" jokes/polls aren't funny anymore. Stop it.
AMEN!
Originally posted by ezza
but them a spy really with out all the drugs is intended for ranged combat, if you want to do th eclose combat thing then you are talking about taking destrosol and beast to use the inq/dur 1s to compete close range
yah but running across wasteland and zoning into a mob that u cant resis.
or runing throu PP or outzones and defending aginst raids. makes snipers pointless
Mumblyfish
24-02-04, 22:58
Originally posted by BombShell
yah but running across wasteland and zoning into a mob that u cant resis.
Be more careful.
Originally posted by BombShell
or runing throu PP or outzones and defending aginst raids. makes snipers pointless
No.
Give Battle armor 3 some fire resist!
As i said before PE wouldn't use it for the simple reason they got better armor. Therefore just boost's spy resists.
If something like this happened then using desterol forte for shelter would be no problem at all.
@Shadow Dancer: "Shelter is intruding into pe territory too much IMO" Well yes and no. Remember the description of the spy class in the manual :p if anything PE's should never have had 35 psi it should have been the spy's! :D
BTW i'm just saying not trying to start an argument bout it. What a flame fest that would be... o_O
/me runs before he even makes the suggestion...
ok.
How about if spies had 30 str 30 con and 40 psi? :eek:
QuantumDelta
24-02-04, 23:43
FU Glok I'm rerolling now! :P
oh..wait...I already have spies...
Good idea Glok! :p
/Glok for Dev! :p
doh, i dont understand why people even ask for changes like this !! :confused:
you knew you could not be a serious close combat fighter by choosing the spy class. Spies have other abilites and lack in combat thats it !!!
I dont see any tanks complaining why they cant be good in tradeskills ;)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
FU Glok I'm rerolling now! :P
oh..wait...I already have spies...
Good idea Glok! :p
/Glok for Dev! :p Hehehe. You partying tonight? You're not your usual dead serious self. :p
As for my spy tweak, it would make playing a spy soooo much more fun, and with the lower con and total inability to reach inq 1, it wouldn't unbalance spies either.
IF spies arent "meant" to be a strong combat class why do they make High dex rifles/pistols just for them? Good logic there.
I have probably seen 2 maybe 3 good combat spies in all my time of NC. The people who say no every time to spy boost are the people who simply dont want to face them.
Why should a spy have to drug up just to survive while all classes dont have to. Not to mention you have to be capped to be a good close combat spy. (Ill fight anyone who disagrees.)
If a spu had 95 Int...and 25 it would work pretty well. My spy has enough wep lore to cap the Dis, hav 45 psu, and 50 hack...with only 95 base int. I can even use a heavy poison belt with PA on. So there should be no problem.
I just dont see why a highly specialized class must always single and double drug (triple some times) just to be viable for close combat.
They didnt make the slasher for long range. If they dont want a spy up close, then dont tempt us with high dex pistols.
Mumblyfish
25-02-04, 00:18
Spies already ARE a good close combat class. Only they don't have defense. IT'S NOT TOO HARD TO GRASP! In close combat, spies have an insane damage output and runspeed. They don't need resists or armour or more of that stupid GenTank bullshit.
Spies already ARE a good close combat class. Only they don't have defense. IT'S NOT TOO HARD TO GRASP! In close combat, spies have an insane damage output and runspeed. They don't need resists or armour or more of that stupid GenTank bullshit.
Ok, let me fight your spy. You better not say you dont have one, claiming they "ARE a good close combat class". ANd insane runspeed? Have you ever used a rifle?? You cant have really high r-c and really high agil on a spy at the same time. You either get big dmg, or a slight speed boost. Not both.
Mumblyfish
25-02-04, 00:25
Originally posted by StrongSad
Ok, let me fight your spy. You better not say you dont have one, claiming they "ARE a good close combat class". ANd insane runspeed? Have you ever used a rifle?? You cant have really high r-c and really high agil on a spy at the same time. You either get big dmg, or a slight speed boost. Not both.
I'm a spy. I spec rifles and pistols, and I'm only DEX ~80 but I've already racked up a few close-quarter kills, each time by simply dodging shots. And I can't even use Stealth 1. You're complaining about having slow runspeed with rifles and not being good at close combat with them? Well, no shit. Rifles are ranged weapons. You've gimped yourself by speccing for 100% long range, so you have no standing to complain about being bad at close range.
Edit: Typo. I'm a picky bitch.
20 psi does the job if you really want to shelter drug if you dont then dont.
You're complaining about having slow runspeed with rifles and not being good at close combat with them?
No I am not. Stop putting word into my mouth. What pisses me off is spies have to drug just to be good. They have no resemblance to their class description, have less con than a monk (wtf??), cant even use fire armor without having at least 2 str imps, and need to be capped to be effective.
BTW, a pistol PE has a higher runspeed than a pistol Spy anyday, and pistols do crap dmg compared to rifles. Makes 0 sense.
Mumblyfish
25-02-04, 00:40
What pisses me off is spies have to drug just to be good.
No they don't. I don't know any spies that drug, and they all seem to kick arse.
They have no resemblance to their class description
Their class description is outdated, from way back before they changed the caps on their stats. So that's not the problem of the spy setup, it's the old description.
have less con than a monk (wtf??)
Makes sense to me. Spies are fragile, monks are a teense stronger because of their mental abilities.
cant even use fire armor without having at least 2 str imps
Don't use fire armour. You don't need it.
and need to be capped to be effective.
Not really. Once a spy can lift a Pain Easer he's a formidable sniper.
BTW, a pistol PE has a higher runspeed than a pistol Spy anyday
No they don't. Maybe those pistol spies aren't very well set up?
and pistols do crap dmg compared to rifles. Makes 0 sense.
It does make sense. The advantage with pistols is not damage, it's full runspeed and high rate of fire.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
They have no resemblance to their class description
Their class description is outdated, from way back before they changed the caps on their stats. So that's not the problem of the spy setup, it's the old description.One thing in the class description which was NEVER accurate was that spies can become proficient in psi use. I think my little suggestion fixes that. ;)
Mumbly. Stop talking. You have obviously never played a high lvl spy/ have never fought one.
Mumblyfish
25-02-04, 02:16
I've played spy practically exclusively since Beta 4. Got 3 of them at cap. I may not be great, but don't tell me I know nothing about how a spy works just because I don't abide by all these shitty uber-setup laws.
trigger hurt
25-02-04, 02:26
i'd much rather see a wider array of missions, perhaps something that allows the runner to get 1k of xp per completed mission. Yeah, I know, epics. But im talking about regular missions, accesible to everyone.
I'm a spy. I spec rifles and pistols, and I'm only DEX ~80 but I've already racked up a few close-quarter kills, each time by simply dodging shots. And I can't even use Stealth 1
Wow, and you have played spies since beta 4....:rolleyes: I would like to see these "capped spies"
QuantumDelta
25-02-04, 06:28
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
I've played spy practically exclusively since Beta 4. Got 3 of them at cap. I may not be great, but don't tell me I know nothing about how a spy works just because I don't abide by all these shitty uber-setup laws. How long you've been playing is not really something that I deem a valid argument... since....well.... there are certain people that walk around here saying they played beta 3, or beta 4 and permanently, since that point in time, meanwhile, i picked the game up in very late november (Started playing dec2) 2002, and pwn most of them :p
And there are people around, who have been around less time than me, that are just as good/almost as good.
And there will be people who become better than me soon enough.
edit;
StrongSad, do you have any tradeskills at all? Mumbly might not, and, typically, I'd say gimpskills are something you can't afford, on any pvp character that has either mst, or tc, on it's main weapons.
Originally posted by StrongSad
Ok, let me fight your spy. You better not say you dont have one, claiming they "ARE a good close combat class". ANd insane runspeed? Have you ever used a rifle?? You cant have really high r-c and really high agil on a spy at the same time. You either get big dmg, or a slight speed boost. Not both.
190 Rifle combat
91 Tech Combat
93 agility
90 athletics
I can go in circles around pistol PE's and tanks.
Originally posted by StrongSad
Wow, and you have played spies since beta 4.... I would like to see these "capped spies"
If you're not combat effective as a spy, that's your fault. Not the games.
No spy has to drug up to be good, you just have to think and play around your limitations.
Originally posted by StrongSad
Mumbly. Stop talking. You have obviously never played a high lvl spy/ have never fought one. YOU better stop talking. Cause you have obviously never played a high lvl spy/ have fought one.
And yes, I have a capped combat spy. He is a great sniper with a capped SH and if i pop some drugs i can even beat CS tanks in close combat.
I can go in circles around pistol PE's and tanks.
Pistol PEs?? I think not. With that much agil/con you either have poor defenses or drug up the butt, I would assume.
Marx....I would love to fight your undrugged "good" spy.
@Kid...why should you have to "pop some drugs" just to beat another class in combat? No other class has too! :mad:
@Mumbly. You say you have played spies since beta 4, yet you say they dont need fire armor for combat. Im sorry, but you would not be saying stuff like that if you played spies 'all the time'.
PS-QD...I dont have any tradeskills on my spy if thats what your asking. I have been tempted to move my Hack somewhere else, but its too valuable for rare hunting...not to mention it would cost me lots of xp to lom.
Originally posted by StrongSad
Pistol PEs?? I think not. With that much agil/con you either have poor defenses or drug up the butt, I would assume.
Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
As I said, a good spy plays around their limitations.
Marx....I would love to fight your undrugged "good" spy.
speaker wire - Pluto. Give me a heads up when you're on tomorrow.
Originally posted by StrongSad
@Kid...why should you have to "pop some drugs" just to beat another class in combat? No other class has too! :mad:
DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I SAID?
Originally posted by SorkZmok
He is a great sniper with a capped SH and if i pop some drugs i can even beat CS tanks in close combat. I can take down most ppl. Without drugs. I stealth and snipe. They die.
I just said i can also pop drugs and be abled to kill a tank in close combat. Or a pistol PE. Or an APU.
Next time quote me right, asshole.
Originally posted by Gulinborsti
remove the whole skill caps on all classes ...
I'm up for no skill caps, how bout you guys?
This is tough.
I say yes initially, but then I think....in order to keep the 300 max skill rule, you gotta NEGATIVE something by 5 to make this possible.
Str - no way, inq setup would be ruined
Con - 25 points is alot wasted for a spies con setup, and hp gone
psi - duh
int - cant do it, heavy belts were basically MEANT for a spy, they should be able to use them all without imps if necessary.
dex - you COULD take 5 dex off them, but then you're just turning spies into PE's...and obliterator/rare drones would be even MORE hard to hit.
I don't think its possible :(
Next time quote me right, asshole.
Why do people always result to name calling? Theres no need for that. Grow up.
For the record I am talking about close combat...not sniping...that totally different. You missed my point kid.
@Marx...thats a shame, I only play on uranus/saturn :(
g0rt..a spy can easily wear all heavy belts with only 95 int. It would work fine.
Crackitakk
26-02-04, 22:52
mmkay at the moment, i concider spys and tanks equal except for the devourer, so no there psi is fine...infact...well i dunno but spys are fine where they are
Take the 20 PSI away, give them +10 STR and +10 CON
Spys= tech guys, not magic monkeys
means with a MOVEON a spy could wear inq1 helm inq1 trousers med inq boots use exp leg 1 exp foot 1 and bat queen chest, which is damn cool and a tradeoff I'd take for not having any psi power. or, only do +5 con and leave psi at 5 for TL3 heal...
but itmakes no sense right now that a fucking psi monk has more constitution than a spy. a spy may not be combat effective but he's much more of a 'physical' class than a monk
Mumblyfish
26-02-04, 23:48
Originally posted by Samhain
Take the 20 PSI away, give them +10 STR and +10 CON
Doable... if they get a DEX based self-healing tool. But that would require too much work and a pretty big change in game mechanics.
I secretly think us spies should get more DEX in order to further differentiate us from PEs. Tee hee!
In that case, improve medikits, or give spys a dex-based tool that makes medicits slightly more effective for them.
Originally posted by Samhain
In that case, improve medikits, or give spys a dex-based tool that makes medicits slightly more effective for them.
Dex based first aid skill - it's all over brainport.
:D
Originally posted by StrongSad
Why do people always result to name calling? Theres no need for that. Grow up.
For the record I am talking about close combat...not sniping...that totally different. You missed my point kid.
@Marx...thats a shame, I only play on uranus/saturn :(
g0rt..a spy can easily wear all heavy belts with only 95 int. It would work fine.
The whole thing that makes spy a good tradeskiller is 100 int and 100 dex, trust me when i say its not fine...and kk will *never* have them with less then 100 in each, its just turning them closer to a PE thats all.
Crackitakk
28-02-04, 02:00
that would be a good idea, it would be even better if they would actually do it....i wouldnt mind being without psi if i had more strength, spys would own thow....even more than they already do
Psyco Groupie
28-02-04, 02:05
stop bumping this poxy thread already ... (yeah i know i just did)
Spy and tank equal? ok... ;)
Plus, Im not taking ONE single point from r-c or agil in dex, for a heal tool. Sorry.
Taking spies vs tanks for example. Both of their main 100 point skills are for defense and offense. So they are able to specialize highly in both; I.E. huge resists and massive damage. Well spies only get their main 100 skill for offense. Which means they are left with crappy defense. Now I would have no problem with this if our "massive" damage did more than of a tank or APU, but it doesnt.
I would be fine with 20 psi...if my weapon got a boost. Until then I need more defense.
Or alternatively just leave spies the fuck alone. I play a rifle hacking spy and they can be invaluable in op fights if you stay out of the way while shooting at the enemy. Spies are easy to play - you just need to avoid getting hit (or seen if possible). Find a nice quiet rooftop to sit on or wall to hide behind and start sniping. Your tanks and monks move forward to engage the enemy.
You get a sniper catch an APU while his deflector runs out and the PPU is maybe busy buffing someone else or staying alive and you can knock their health down to half - If you're really lucky you can get a second shot off, if not, your main forces will probably see them. At the very least it gives the PPU another player they have to heal to keep them busy.
Spies are also useful for, erm, spying - stealth up to the op before a counter attack to check if any more enemies have arrived, maybe what tactics they look like using, how many PPUs they have, etc.
Then of course spies have the invaluable job of hacking the op - without a hacker all that fighting is pratically useless.
And this is all before spirit bullets :D
Athon Solo
My PE is 2x more effective at hacking than my rifle spy ever will be. Giving up those weapon lore points is tough. Not to mention at least 40 points into psu if you want to use a shelter...
Monks can also hack ops without much effort. Especially a PPU. Between the two, spies arent essential to any aspect of an op fight. They dont kill things, and their hacking can be done easily by other classes...I personally see no reason to bring my spy to an op fight besides just to annoy the enemy.
people often forget spies can do tradeskills on top of everything, and combat spies are damn good, they will only be worse if you remove 5 con and put it into psi. Me thinks monks have the sweetest stat caps
100 INT (more like 85ish) - tradeskill
35 DEX - agility and hovertech
45 Con - fair enough resists
20 STR - bones
100 PSI - don't need to say
well godamnit rifle spies be happy, you can beat all that classes easily, and that was before spirit bullets, and not to mention stealth 3 : o.
Rifle PEs needs to be looked at in my opinion not spies, and believe me adding psi from another skill will screw up spies more.. drugs carry little disadvantage, but losing 5 con, dex, str, int is invalueble and cannot be replaced by drugs
look at it this way if you drug for armor, you have to keep drugging, while you only need to drug at the moment you need shelter. Sounds like the spies stats are at the best position to me.
Also god spec for poison and fire then, if you wear energy belt and have loads of xray, just compensate....
Crackitakk
29-02-04, 19:12
Ahh, Thats what pistol spys are for, they can hax better than anything, and still have enough weaponlore to cap aiming on every gun and also enough to put 50 points into psi use....and they do pretty much the most damage out of anything other than a tank, theyre good in op wars from what i can see....but what it really boils down to is if the charactor is good or not....
and they do pretty much the most damage out of anything other than a tank
^^^ ?? o_O ?? ^^^
A pistol spy isnt going to be fighting in the thick of it during an op war....thats for sure (unless they have a dedicated PPU.....). And as everyone knows op wars can turn into seiges sometimes....then all the drugs a spy took to be good would have worn off. Now this is me, but I dont want 5 spies helping attack an op if they have to run off and zone every 5 minutes because of flash.
Then that leaves the sniper spy. Which as I said before is pretty useless in an op fight, except for maybe a few rare instances.
If i had to pick bewteen 5 spies or 5 PEs for an op fight, the PEs would win every time. They can do everything a spy can AND they are much less reliant on drugs/ppus to survive.
EDIT: Forgot to mention....spies would be FINE with only 95 int. I dont see what the fuss is?? They are as smart as a monk are, but only have 10 more psi than a tank. That is totally logical. :rolleyes:
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