View Full Version : Community Change
100th Post. Celebration and cake for everyone. Ahem.
I don't know where i heard this, hell it mighta been on these forums, or sum random kid telling me, but I've been thinking about this a helluva long time, but I have and always will be afraid of KK, especially Nidhogg :D, but I cant keep this in any longer. Heres what I heard:
In some game (dont know the name), an MMORPG, players will post ideas about the game on forums. If enough people like it, and it is relavtively plausible - it is implemented. If the majority hate it afterwards, it is taken away.
Now lets look at Neocron. I would say around at least 1 in 10 posts are about an idea that some player has had, and frankly the majority are good ideas. (Here's the bit thats gonna get me the whack) But they never get implemented. Or, hardly ever. And if they are, I doubt that KK decided to implement because of that post. Now, I know that KK are hard at work, attempting to solve bugs, FREs, and other such technical problems, but, perhaps, with DoY at least, we will see some changes in this slight ignorance of the communities wishes? I applaude KK for trying to make a difference. I am let down by the fact that none of our ideas seem to even get considered, let alone implemented.
For example, I have seen that Mirco has a post on volunteers for a S/D self-cast only OP battle. YES YES YES i say. To the self-cast? No, godam, I dont have a clue about monks, hence why i never give my opinion on them. YES YES YES to testing it, seeing if it is any good. Problems? I doubt it will happen. I hope it does. Even if it does, what about the more complicated ideas, like Heavyporkers huge Nova idea with DoY underground passageway and stuff? Things that really could give this game a new breath. Those cant be done by us. No KK, only you can do that.
I love this game. I always have. Ever since beta 4, when i played with all me mates, and my brother is now a SWG boy. Why did he go SWG? Because Neocron felt stiff, linear, nothing new, no changes. If you love the formula that makes this game, then no changes are OK.
Back in the beta, I was afraid of wolves. A pack of the buggers massacred my bro when he was trekking to TechHaven. Now a coupla days ago, I laughed at a wolf that was trying to kill me. I laughed. And I hated myself, because i remembered the fear that had struck my heart when I came across wolves in beta. It's that FEAR that made this game seem so great for me. Whats to fear when you've seen it all? Whats to look forward to, when you get onto to Neocron, get past all the FRE's and bugs and whiners and newbies asking for 10k to retrieve their backpack after being massacred by an uber wolf? I'll tell ya. The same damn thing that happened yesterday.
Thanks.
Democracy is the surest way to put morons in charge so - NO!
Although your thoughts are sensible in theory, in practice this community would abuse it until the game becomes a deathmatch like CS.
You would also have to define clear parameters on when these changes/tests would be invoked. Would everyone who pays to play have their say? Would they be guaranteed a say? I dunno.
The Brainport is full of great ideas that don't even get looked at by some people who use this forum, and I'm guilty of not checking at times too.
This thread might have been worth a shout after retail was released. KK have not got time for this messing around right now.
It's breaking my heart to not want what you want, but it's not right for here sorry :(
Q`alooaith
23-02-04, 20:46
While I somewhat agree..
I also totaly dissagree, if the player's had their way most of the mob's would be nerfed and techpart's would drop like water, and all other thing's like that..
There comes a point where bowing down to the community is a bad thing, we're not perfect, we don't know what we want, we want a fun game with high level content, but we don't want a game that hard..
We want rare's to be rare, but want the techpart's to drop more often..
I'd suggest you watch bruce almighty, now that's a pretty good, not great but funny, near the end, where so many people won the lottery that they only got somthing like 17 dollar's each, and where upset about it... and so many other things.. You just can't give people what they want all the time, you've got to have your own idea's and ideals and stand to them..
Else your game become's another clone of a "good" game..
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Although your thoughts are sensible in theory, in practice this community would abuse it until the game becomes a deathmatch like CS.
You would also have to define clear parameters on when these changes/tests would be invoked. Would everyone who pays to play have their say? Would they be guaranteed a say? I dunno.
The Brainport is full of great ideas that don't even get looked at by some people who use this forum, and I'm guilty of not checking at times too.
This thread might have been worth a shout after retail was released. KK have not got time for this messing around right now.
It's breaking my heart to not want what you want, but it's not right for here sorry :(
I understand where you're coming from. So I'll give you an answer to the bit about abusing. All I want is a system where an idea that MOST people like is implemented, whether on the test server only, or retail servers, whatever. If people DONT like it, it is removed. If it is too unfeasable, or takes Neocron too far astray, then it wont be implemented.
About the "KK have not got time," "after retail", this is why i said AFTER DoY. Fresh start I say.
I want to see a system that tests what people want. Is that too much to ask?
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
While I somewhat agree..
I also totaly dissagree, if the player's had their way most of the mob's would be nerfed and techpart's would drop like water, and all other thing's like that..
There comes a point where bowing down to the community is a bad thing, we're not perfect, we don't know what we want, we want a fun game with high level content, but we don't want a game that hard..
We want rare's to be rare, but want the techpart's to drop more often..
I'd suggest you watch bruce almighty, now that's a pretty good, not great but funny, near the end, where so many people won the lottery that they only got somthing like 17 dollar's each, and where upset about it... and so many other things.. You just can't give people what they want all the time, you've got to have your own idea's and ideals and stand to them..
Else your game become's another clone of a "good" game..
After reading that, I realise that I was too unclear. It's MAJOR changes I want, not changes like techparts, changes like NEW things that add NEW elements. Most of the ideas on the forums are completely original. Look at the posts. How many people are saying, nerf mobs, give more techparts. Comparitvely few to the people saying give this game something REALLY new. Most of the ideas are designed to be in line with Neocron, so it wont change the basic formula anyway. Just give it something new.
People, if you have had an idea that you thought was the bees knees, (Judge, Heavyporker, i'm looking at you) then you know what I mean when I say its depressing to put together a coherent aguement for implementing an idea, only to see it never get implemented or even considered.
Originally posted by jernau
Democracy is the surest way to put morons in charge so - NO!
Anything else is the surest way to keep morons over generations :o
i got my '1337' post count last night;) and now its gone:(
Originally posted by Egeon
Anything else is the surest way to keep morons over generations :o
Democracy also keeps morons for generations, it just hides them a bit better.
Originally posted by jernau
Democracy also keeps morons for generations, it just hides them a bit better.
Well, at least you have a chance of getting rid of them a bit easier.
Originally posted by Egeon
Well, at least you have a chance of getting rid of them a bit easier.
Not really. In fact by making the proles believe that they actually make it a lot harder for anyone to remove or change them.
I think KK does implement many things people wanted and put the ideas up on the forum...it just takes a lot of time for KK to do so. There was a time where I would say "yes, KK dont give a shit", but the past 5 or so patches proved me wrong. They did stuff we wanted (at least where a majority of players did agreed on), but it took them like 6 months. Well, better later then never I guess ;-)
Gotterdammerung
23-02-04, 21:53
If everything that was posted on the forums was implemented this game would bounce from one extreme to another like a metronome. How long would it take a small dedicated group to spam a poll with votes from additional accounts to get something implemented that they wanted, then the developers would have to toil for god knows how long to implement it and suppose after implementation the majority of the players now hated it (but that small initial group still wanted it cause in their eyes, because it was their idea it was manna from heaven)? If it was put forth that in the next patch it was to be removed you'd have forums filled with A) FFS KK how long to the next patch, why must we deal with this bollocks and B) FFS KK, i can't believe you are going to listen to those carebears and remove the feature, obviously you know nothing about customer happiness blah blah blah (you get the idea)
The game works as it should, intelligent people (ie: strategists, storyline,developers etc) read the forums, discuss ideas that have been put forth and agree as to what things suggested can be implemented to achieve the satisfaction of the majority of the players. Things that are impossible from a physical limitations standpoint are put aside, as well as things that would lend a great imbalance to the game or to one class or another. Some ideas may have a kernel of inspiration and they'll be tweaked & massaged till a feature can be implemented but the end result is that the choice & decisions as to what goes into the game & what gets removed is in the most capable hands possible, the hands of the people who's visions it was that became this game and who worked for years to manufacture it.
In any successful game there can be no mob rule.
Originally posted by jernau
Not really. In fact by making the proles believe that they actually make it a lot harder for anyone to remove or change them.
I feel that more and more people get pissed off with politics and stay completely out of them. So the "democratically" elected leaders can do almost anything they want until we have a nice story like "Crusader: No Remorse" (tm).
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
If everything that was posted on the forums was implemented this game would bounce from one extreme to another like a metronome. How long would it take a small dedicated group to spam a poll with votes from additional accounts to get something implemented that they wanted, then the developers would have to toil for god knows how long to implement it and suppose after implementation the majority of the players now hated it (but that small initial group still wanted it cause in their eyes, because it was their idea it was manna from heaven)? If it was put forth that in the next patch it was to be removed you'd have forums filled with A) FFS KK how long to the next patch, why must we deal with this bollocks and B) FFS KK, i can't believe you are going to listen to those carebears and remove the feature, obviously you know nothing about customer happiness blah blah blah (you get the idea)
The game works as it should, intelligent people (ie: strategists, storyline,developers etc) read the forums, discuss ideas that have been put forth and agree as to what things suggested can be implemented to achieve the satisfaction of the majority of the players. Things that are impossible from a physical limitations standpoint are put aside, as well as things that would lend a great imbalance to the game or to one class or another. Some ideas may have a kernel of inspiration and they'll be tweaked & massaged till a feature can be implemented but the end result is that the choice & decisions as to what goes into the game & what gets removed is in the most capable hands possible, the hands of the people who's visions it was that became this game and who worked for years to manufacture it.
In any successful game there can be no mob rule.
Right. Ok. I understand. Fine, I stand corrected, perhaps it isnt the best thing. Im not gonna argue with a mod.
But perhaps, maybe, just maybe, it would be possible for once a mod to post a comment about getting one of these strategists to check out any idea? I dont want to believe that the mods think every idea we come up with is a load of bs. I agree tweaks to things that ALREADY EXIST will have some people disagreeing, but some ideas that only add things to the game are unlikely to be hated are they? The people who post on these forums with new things generally take hours thinking up their ideas, and would probably like a little recognition. Can anyone who has posted a really large idea back me up here? TBH, I've never seen a mod post something on an idea thread, except to close it for too much spam, and I think not only will it make the idea-maker feel sated, it will improve Mod-User relations :) . K maybe thats going a bit to far, but still...
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
If you have any issue with how the forum is moderated please feel free to address it to Odin or Nid but don't use the forum to air any personal issues you may have
No, I believe Gotterdamung is right. He knows this community better than I do. And I argued with him a bit... Just..... stealthily.... :)
Gotterdammerung
23-02-04, 23:18
Originally posted by Saza
I dont want to believe that the mods think every idea we come up with is a load of bs.
Thats the only part you misunderstand me on. If you notice we never edit anyones ideas or suggestions as personally I believe all ideas should be heard, and though you may not think they have a voice, they are listened to. You'll never get a pm from someone that says "hey, i just read that idea, great suggestion" but be assured, they all get read. The only thing people have to keep in mind is that though this is a game and was a labor of love for marty & the developers it is still a business and it's purpose aside from play is to make money. Thats why some ideas (which to the thinker seems solid gold) may not ever make it to retail, simply because for a game to suceed it has to be broadly appealing to a large playerbase.
Q`alooaith
23-02-04, 23:31
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
In any successful game there can be no mob rule.
Hmmmm, sound familar....
Oh wait, I already said that didn't I?
*look's oh so smug*
I'd also like to point out, if you look back but a short way's you'll find Brainport not only hold's idea's from Heavyporker, and judge, but also quite a few from somone else...
Been a while since my last massive idea's thread.. Hmm I'll have to start thinking again and make another one...
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