View Full Version : Bugs, do we simply accept them now?
Ghost_Shifter
22-02-04, 13:07
Ok I'm not even sure why I'm posting this becuase I doubt it will make any diference. Perhaps I'm just venting some frustration, but it seems to me that the countless number of bugs in this gave have almost become acceptable by the community. Perhaps we're just so used to them that we just accept them? IMO, this forum should be dominated by complaints about bugs, but there are so little.
I'm at the stage now were I'm seriously considering finding a new game to spend my money and time on becase the countless runtime errors, sync problems (too many different typs to go into), CTD's, system lock ups, inventory glitches, blah blah blah, are really starting to get me down.
It's become a standing joke now among players about just how frequent these bugs are.
The other night we tried to get 6 people from one OP to another. 4 of us fataled at some point or another. It's a joke!
Then you have the good old fatal while fighting bug that happens far to often to be funny. You log in and guess what, your dead.
Now I can live with the odd bug, but when these things happen so many times in one night, and I'm talking 10+ I start to get frustrated and angry with the damn game.
I've been playing Eve online, for about 2 weeks now, a game that recently boasted a record 7850 players online, in game at one time in the same persistant world. In that fortnight, I've only had one bug, and that was having to log of and on again for some cash to show up in my bank.
Why is it that a game so long in retail does it still have the *SAME* consistant bugs it had in beta, and better yet, why the hell do we just accept it?
Since I'm paying for this game, I'd personally like to see a dev area that explains exactly what is being done to eradicate these bugs. Why do I still get fatal runtim errors and what the hell can I do to stop them etc.
I think the community should start to put pressure on KK to get these issues resolved becuase from what I've seen so far, we're still living with serious bugs that totally reduce the gaming experience for us all.
KK, lets see you practice better customer service and explain what is being done. Other games can do it, why can you?
Thanks
GS
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Three login sync's in a row? FRE's after zoning? Perma syncs? Nasty and nothing I can do about it. Can't help the helpdesk to pinpoint the root cause of those incidents.
Yes, i've come to the point of actually being able to live with the bugs.
The negative game experience is bugging me more much tho (research failures, cst blow ups, no pokers around etc etc).
Psyco Groupie
22-02-04, 14:39
I dont get these problems as often as half you people, I'd recomend de-spy/ad/virus your pc
odd
*edit ... you'll soon lose your love for eve when a group of 50 pirates gank you after you warp and your battleship goes poof that took you weeks to get
man 99 % of us have those fuking bugs ALL the time and just because 5 retards on the forum keep saying this game is bug free, KK will not do ANYTHING.
And if it was our computer then y do we not crash in other games that handle millions of players ?????????
So instead of whining for some nerfage all the time get ur act together and all whine about the bugs.......
blumblumshub
22-02-04, 14:53
It is indeed very sad that we've come to just accept the bugs. It's even more sad that we have seen no attempt from KK to actually fix the bugs.
Don't worry, BDOY will solve everything (after all, we're going to commercially betatest THAT, too)
Blum
MJS himself said he doesnt fatal.
HE LIES!
there is no way someone doesnt fatal.
I do have installed the latest ad-aware, norton antivirus. I did follow up on the suggestion to reinstall neocron, check files regularly. I've examined each and every of my running processes, looked them up on google and decided whether they should or shouldn't run.
Best I can do is some zen meditation whenever I get syncs, fre's or any other nc showstopper.
he says that to save lots of work :P
They are lacking programmers to fix the bugs , hopefully DoY will bring more work so more programmers and less bugs...
blumblumshub
22-02-04, 15:04
Originally posted by Omnituens
MJS himself said he doesnt fatal.
Oh weeeeellll... If Martin says he doesn't fatal, then it MUST be ok, mustn't it?
Maybe we should all go out and buy crappy old computers with GeForce 2's in, just like his, so that we can play the game as perfectly as he does.
Or not,
Blum
The bugs need fixing before content is added.
Simple as that.
I hardly fatal anymore .. not to say that I haven't had any but I can play for a long while and not have any .. . what I do get alot of though is when I close neocron sometimes on exit from gameworld it just closes neocron totally and doesn't even go to the login screen .. .well that doesnt' bother me much since I could never go out of a server and login back to another server without having to totally close the game completely in order to login due to those world clinet messages or whatever.
But I have to ask people here . . . how many of you after fatals STILL email off the callstacks? how many have ever done it? and how many think it's worthless to send them off even though they want them fixed :D
blumblumshub
22-02-04, 15:17
Originally posted by amfest
But I have to ask people here . . . how many of you after fatals STILL email off the callstacks? how many have ever done it? and how many think it's worthless to send them off even though they want them fixed :D
I used to. I don't any more because I genuinely do think it's worthless to send them off even though I want them fixed. I think they've got a server full of stack reports by now and nobody seems to be bothering to try to fix them.
Obviously, we don't actually KNOW what goes on in KK's offices so we can't really say whether anyone's fixing bugs, but all I do know is that every time there's a patch it is solely for nerfing this or boosting that, never fixing this or mending that.
I think it's all a smokescreen to stop us whining about the bugs!
Blum
Originally posted by amfest
[...]
But I have to ask people here . . . how many of you after fatals STILL email off the callstacks? how many have ever done it? and how many think it's worthless to send them off even though they want them fixed :D
I did send em in during beta4 but don't anymore. If I crash I want only one thing: back in asap.
Last thing I want to do is flood the helpdesk with emails...
Last thing I want to do is flood the helpdesk with emails...
why not, you might get 100k
Originally posted by amfest
why not, you might get 100k
Would cap my bank account in a week :p
would take me quite a few months :(
I agree whole-heartedly with the poster, even with his form to say it.
These forums should be flooded with the real problems that keep us away from enjoying the game; it's true that balance and content also have room and should be asked for, but at this point I think that our priority should be getting out of beta.
Honestly, this is a great mmorpg but gets ruined by the continue problems... and I dont think we should accept the bugs as part of the game.
Aziraphale
22-02-04, 15:44
Going from P1 to P3 (i think) always makes me fatal for some reason o_O
The past hour I crashed 2 times.
1st, dragging loot from a warbie.
2nd, well not a crash really, zoning from j03 to j04. Ended up dead between 3 warbies.
3rd, genrep from plaza1 to outzone.
Before I really start whining about crashes: this is my last post on the subject. Thanks!
Originally posted by Sleawer
I agree whole-heartedly with the poster, even with his form to say it.
These forums should be flooded with the real problems that keep us away from enjoying the game; it's true that balance and content also have room and should be asked for, but at this point I think that our priority should be getting out of beta.
Honestly, this is a great mmorpg but gets ruined by the continue problems... and I dont think we should accept the bugs as part of the game.
We are still paying for the last phase of beta. Actually with the massive engine overhaul they are talking about pulling off in the next 4 months we are probably now about to enter beta stage 6 or 7.
Beta:Dome of York and it's promised overhauls will add a whole new dimension of debugging to be done to this game.
KK stop the bullshit and tell us how you intend to pull this off?
Well gosh golly, there ARE others out there that feel like I do,
the best way to demonstrate your irritation is to do what I did,
and cancel.
Which is what 99% of you will not do.
And it's OK I will not hold it against you because the game IS
fun when it works properly, I will miss playing.
Originally posted by John.nl
I did send em in during beta4 but don't anymore. If I crash I want only one thing: back in asap.
Last thing I want to do is flood the helpdesk with emails...
I get the distinct impression most people didn't during the beta.
If you do have problems, perhaps you should flood the helpdesk with emails containing pertinent information.
:D
Originally posted by amfest
would take me quite a few months
Sadly, I would be in the same boat.
:(
No crash crash for meh.
I dont really fatal that much, its just when i do FRE they come in clusters untill i reboot O_o
Rarely synch even during big OP wars, but do get the majority of my fatals when I zone into a zone that has a OP war going, eg out the UG... :(
Originally posted by Marx
I get the distinct impression most people didn't during the beta.
If you do have problems, perhaps you should flood the helpdesk with emails containing pertinent information.
Marx I did this in December, for about a week I religiously pulled a callstack, probably 20 of them, each and every time I fataled CTD'd, or otherwise, and you know what they told me?
Please do not send anymore callstacks in. They are unneccessary as we are converting to the expansion pack soon which will change up much of the game.
I couldn't believe it when I got that reply back from the helpdesk. This means they are not actively bug-hunting in the current code base unless to rub out major show stoppers. :eek:
So don't bother to send your callstacks in unless otherwise instructed to do so by the helpdesk.
/edit: just lagged out massively on Saturn, typical weekend bullshit. Cost me 2 drones this time.
Yep, I guess they gave up...
> Dear helpdesk,
>
> Should I send in callstack logs when I get fatal runtime errors?
>
> Kind regards, John
>
>
No, thank you.
With kind regards,
Ghost_Shifter
22-02-04, 18:38
I've actually had to log out the game becase right now as of Sunday 1630 Staturn is fubar and averyones complaining about it right now in game. You cant switch weapon (which is bad news for a ppu)... FUBAR
Anyway... a reply to some of your posts.
you'll soon lose your love for eve when a group of 50 pirates gank you after you warp and your battleship goes poof that took you weeks to get
I dont love eve, I probably wont subscribe a 2nd month, but my point wasnt how good the game was, it was about how there are so few bugs yet so many more players.
They are lacking programmers to fix the bugs , hopefully DoY will bring more work so more programmers and less bugs...
Aint our problem m8.. It's been like this since beta... Why's DOY gonna be any different?
Obviously, we don't actually KNOW what goes on in KK's offices so we can't really say whether anyone's fixing
Why? why dont we know? We're paying for it.. why shouldnt we
know?
Last thing I want to do is flood the helpdesk with emails
Sad but true.. tehre would be no time to play the game if we emailed help everytime we got a bug. Have you tried using the ingame bug tracker??? ha! Everytime I've done that I've got a reply that tells me they cant do anything about it ingame and to email help desk.
Please do not send anymore callstacks in. They are unneccessary as we are converting to the expansion pack soon which will change up much of the game.
OMFG!
soon
I will accept it for now since not much has been done about the bugs unless its a game crippling bug. So I will wait for BDoY and hope that 10tecal brings in some new people to fix the bugs that plauge this game.
Yeah hope so 2, they need new ppl to improve the code and fix the bugs and the unknown yet to come bugs, cause DoY will attract more ppl and if it is like now bug bug bug all the way the game wont get very far.....ppl like quality and the yget paid for there work so they better do there damn work good....
Originally posted by KimmyG
I will accept it for now since not much has been done about the bugs unless its a game crippling bug. So I will wait for BDoY and hope that 10tecal brings in some new people to fix the bugs that plauge this game.
BDoY IF it ever actually arrives and isn't a lame attempt to
rake in a new stream of cash before the inevitable bankruptcy
should happen AND be more stable then the pathetic
thing we currently call a game......well....I'd be pleasantly
surprised.
But so far all I see is alot of press releases and propaganda.
Originally posted by Ghost_Shifter
Ok I'm not even sure why I'm posting this becuase I doubt it will make any diference. Perhaps I'm just venting some frustration, but it seems to me that the countless number of bugs in this gave have almost become acceptable by the community. Perhaps we're just so used to them that we just accept them? IMO, this forum should be dominated by complaints about bugs, but there are so little.
I'm at the stage now were I'm seriously considering finding a new game to spend my money and time on becase the countless runtime errors, sync problems (too many different typs to go into), CTD's, system lock ups, inventory glitches, blah blah blah, are really starting to get me down.
It's become a standing joke now among players about just how frequent these bugs are.
The other night we tried to get 6 people from one OP to another. 4 of us fataled at some point or another. It's a joke!
Then you have the good old fatal while fighting bug that happens far to often to be funny. You log in and guess what, your dead.
Now I can live with the odd bug, but when these things happen so many times in one night, and I'm talking 10+ I start to get frustrated and angry with the damn game.
I've been playing Eve online, for about 2 weeks now, a game that recently boasted a record 7850 players online, in game at one time in the same persistant world. In that fortnight, I've only had one bug, and that was having to log of and on again for some cash to show up in my bank.
Why is it that a game so long in retail does it still have the *SAME* consistant bugs it had in beta, and better yet, why the hell do we just accept it?
Since I'm paying for this game, I'd personally like to see a dev area that explains exactly what is being done to eradicate these bugs. Why do I still get fatal runtim errors and what the hell can I do to stop them etc.
I think the community should start to put pressure on KK to get these issues resolved becuase from what I've seen so far, we're still living with serious bugs that totally reduce the gaming experience for us all.
KK, lets see you practice better customer service and explain what is being done. Other games can do it, why can you?
Thanks
GS
here here
hes right. we just put up with the bugs and joke about them. but really we are paying for a product so the least we can expect is soem kind feedback about all the bugs that ARE still in game. some of which have been there since beta.
FRE's are not consistent with all users because they usually deal with your PC's setup and drivers etc moreso then programming problems. The only way to settle FRE's is to make NC more compatible with all types of systems, but not everyone has the same systems so it takes time (its like trying to protect all possible combinations of a PC setup in which any communication between a device and NC could be causing it). So I should note that I rarely ever get FRE's. Extremely rare. Any connecion loss i get is usually due to syncs.
BlackPrince
23-02-04, 00:34
I can't wait for the first reviews of BDoY to come out. It'll be fun watching the same guys who reviewed NC when it was first released go apeshit after running into the same bugs in game with the release of BDoY 5 years later.
I'm curious, do people in Germany playing this game have bug problems like the rest of us?
I mean, anyone living within a 500 mile radius of Reakktor headquarters, do you have any problems with the game stability?
I live in the USA, so I figure the bugginess of the game is a result of the distance involved.
Originally posted by Zeph0n
FRE's are not consistent with all users because they usually deal with your PC's setup and drivers etc moreso then programming problems. The only way to settle FRE's is to make NC more compatible with all types of systems, but not everyone has the same systems so it takes time (its like trying to protect all possible combinations of a PC setup in which any communication between a device and NC could be causing it). So I should note that I rarely ever get FRE's. Extremely rare. Any connecion loss i get is usually due to syncs.
yeah people say that but i played endless ages for a couple of weeks on american servers (am in UK) and i literally didnt crash once.
edit: whoops quoted wrong person, but you get my point :)
All the servers are based in Germany though. It is just the official language that is english on say pluto for example.
But yea I rarely ever crash either so to me its weird to hear so many people complain about it. But FRE's are more due to your system's compatibility with the game then straight forward bugs. Big difference
Betail.
NC without bugs wouldnt be as fun would it? The thrill of running into combat wondering if you'll CTD or FRE, or the heart pounding moments before a rare construction completes when you cross your fingers and hope to MJS that you wont get d/c and lose parts or something.
Betail.
NC without bugs wouldnt be as fun would it? The thrill of running into combat wondering if you'll CTD or FRE, or the heart pounding moments before a rare construction completes when you cross your fingers and hope to MJS that you wont get d/c and lose parts or something.
ROFLMAO, I do this everytime I got something important being constructed. I'm always afraid I will crash to desktop from that dreaded synchonization bug.
My heart literally starts beating faster, lol
Originally posted by Kimiko
Betail.
your fingers and hope to MJS that you wont get d/c and lose parts or something.
I pray to MJS like I do to Enron's CEO.
Someday there will be a reckoning.
Ghost_Shifter
23-02-04, 03:36
Originally posted by Zeph0n
All the servers are based in Germany though. It is just the official language that is english on say pluto for example.
But yea I rarely ever crash either so to me its weird to hear so many people complain about it. But FRE's are more due to your system's compatibility with the game then straight forward bugs. Big difference
What PC is it compatible with? the ZX spectum??!!
Dude... Every other game I play, and I mean EVERY other game I play have practically zero noticable bugs. perhaps one or to little things, but not these fucking whoppers we have in NC. It happens to the MAJORITY of us. I play other online games and guess what... no problems, and no major problems with the rest of the community.
Stop blaming these errors on our systems. if 99.9% of all other games run without a glitch on my PC, that tells me something. When 99.9% of the people replying to this thread say they too are pissed of with the bugs, that too tells me something.
The fact you rarely crash is great.
maybe people's systems are too good now for the engine to compensate . .hence the bugs! :lol:
I have a p3 500mhz with 256 crap ram that was given to me from a friend who got them from ibm . . .lol. I have a voodoo 3 3500 tv video card which the tv out and in doesn't work anymore cause it was fried in an electrical malfucntion >_<. I run win98 1st edition! I haven't defragged in god knows how long. My desktop is at 800x600 and I run the game at 640x480. I hardly crash. :eek:
But then I come on here and read about people who have super computers crashing left and right . . . something does reek here . . oh well . .as long as I can play :p
My thoughts why they change stuff rather than fix bugs:
Its far easier to change some stats on the weps and patch it than to look thru the code trying to find a bug, especially when there are so many of them.
I have a p3 500mhz with 256 crap ram that was given to me from a friend who got them from ibm . . .lol. I have a voodoo 3 3500 tv video card which the tv out and in doesn't work anymore cause it was fried in an electrical malfucntion >_<. I run win98 1st edition! I haven't defragged in god knows how long. My desktop is at 800x600 and I run the game at 640x480. I hardly crash.
But then I come on here and read about people who have super computers crashing left and right . . . something does reek here . . oh well . .as long as I can play
And you prolly have like 1 FPS in your apt. ressing rares right? LOL :p
My friend said when AO came out it was barely playable like NC is kinda now. But in a few months he said pretty much all the bugs were gone. Bugs like fatals and random synchs. Or the bug where NC crashes (usually when I am doing something extremely important) and wont let you log back in. Fix em plz KK!
We're paying for it.. why shouldnt we know?
You pay for access to the virtual worlds as they are. You do not pay for access to the behind-the-scenes goings on at KK HQ. The only rights you have were spelled out in the user's agreement you read before installing the NC software and activating the client. I'm pretty sure "bitching at KK" wasn't in the agreement.
I don't crash too often. When I do it's usually a longstanding issue, like dragging inventory and releasing just the right way or zoning to/from Plaza 3
And you prolly have like 1 FPS in your apt. ressing rares right? LOL
I admit I don't have the best of FPS but this isn't Quake or Unreal where I need the best FPS though it does help. I can still play and no it's not 1 fps lol ..but at certain places in the wastes looking in certain directions I can drop to 7-13 fps oh well .. wonder how well my system is going to do when BDOY comes out and it's all up to the vid card . ..hopefully by then I'll have gotten another system to play on and then I can join the masses of Crashes like everyone else :D
Ghost_Shifter
23-02-04, 11:57
Originally posted by IceStorm
You pay for access to the virtual worlds as they are. You do not pay for access to the behind-the-scenes goings on at KK HQ. The only rights you have were spelled out in the user's agreement you read before installing the NC software and activating the client. I'm pretty sure "bitching at KK" wasn't in the agreement.
I don't crash too often. When I do it's usually a longstanding issue, like dragging inventory and releasing just the right way or zoning to/from Plaza 3
No m8, let me explain.. What I pay / paid for is the boxed game, the ability to play on the game, however, I also pay for customer support. Support is there to help people overcome thechnical issues. All the problems we have with NC fall into the technical category.
Also as a consumer have the right to know what is being done to fix this 'faulty product'. At the moment the product is not living up to it's expectations, so I have a right to ask what's being done to rectify it.
If ppl put there money somewhere or in something they wanne see result, and result is quality...something that still has to happen here....have to agree with shifter.
I went from a amd duron 1300 to a amd xp 2200 (overclocked it 150/150) and went from 256 to 512mb ram.
Same MB and videocard.
And i must say the game is running a lot smoother, i haven't failed sync anymore and i have only gotten 3 fatal errors in 4 weeks.
So i think your computer itself is much cause of the problems.
However, i haven't seen a game with so many bugs before.
Hopefully DOY will be better written than NC
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