View Full Version : Beam of Hell Vs. Judge
juvestar15
19-02-04, 16:37
I made a post about my setup the other day, i put it to the test today. Here is what happened.
Tried this on a tank. His CON resists were 50 fire, 50 energy. Armor was 30 fire, 75 energy. Give or take a few points on those, i wasn't really concerned with resists because i didn't think(hope) it had any bearing. Guns and damages below.
Beam of Hell
Head Shot: 45
Chest Shot: 45
Groin Shot: 45
Leg Shot: 45
Judge
Head Shot: 54
Chest Shot: 54
Groin Shot: 44
Leg Shot: 22
I pick the Judge since i try and aim for head and chest and my Judge has 155 frequency compared to the Beam of Hell's 70. I'm not quite sure what the BoH is good for. :confused: I guess if you didn;t care about where you it it's good. But damage and speed compared to the Judge isn't that great.
I'm big on not taking drugs. All my setups are with no drugs. The BoH setup was great(capped dmg and used MOVE ON) but it fell apart when i tried to buff myself with blessed deflector and couldn't put armor on without drugging. :D I guess you could use the glove trick that gives +5 dex, but i wasn't keen on that.
This was probably a pointless test to most and a completely useless thread. :D But what i want to know is, why does the locational damage not matter with a BoH? Also, when i shot the BoH and aimed at the legs, the gun's beam hit the legs, it didn't put the beam on the head.
remember to divide judge's freq by 2 when you compare :)
an BoH is much more accurate from distance. close combat is what the judge is made for.
I use the BOH over the judge when fighting, I find it to be a superior weapon, I'm messing with the ROLH at the minute but I think I prefare the BOH to the judge.
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 16:49
BoH/RoLH > Judge.
The judge sits in an uneasy middle ground between the two extremes of PE weapon setups, basically it kinda sucks :p.
i prefer judge, just ask slutsumi or kid brainiac if its good hehe :)
but tbh i havnt got a rolh so i cant comment on that, although i suspect its more powerful, i like the whole phew phew phew phew :p
i also dont use drugs but i could use pa4 quite easily and boh if i wanted but i wouldnt bother outside of neofrag unless it was a duel, but i really need to find a SA lieing around some where before i can use boh or rolh properly i think, and there isnt much chance of that atm :(
Judge kicks ass if you are accurate, i dont like laser appart from pulse weapons, but ray weapons really do pawn all i guess :/
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 17:26
Originally posted by REMUS
i prefer judge, just ask slutsumi or kid brainiac if its good hehe :)
My judge doesn't even hurt sluts tank. No point at all in fighting him.
well mine does and im only at 156% O_o
Dargeshaad
19-02-04, 17:36
BoH like BS and RoLH do constant dmg no matter the HP of the target unlike Judge which degrade in dmg the lower the HP of the target. That's one of the reasons for using it, along with the fact that it hits pretty much all the time.
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 17:39
I run around sluts tank pounding him, while he sings (not kidding) and giggles, untill he gets bored and wastes me in a blur of perfect CS fire.
Drib, have u even used RoLH since the other pistols were boosted? O_o
its either been dmg nerfed, or just feels that way in comparison. It's clear to see that the judge is the new cookie cutter weapon for all those "Wannabe PE's" (copyright, XaNToR, 2004).
Judge is right up there amongst the best pistols. If it's SLIGHTLY less powerful than the RoLH or BoH.....well, deservedly so, as it's a DEX = 100 pistol.
As u know, Dex 100 on a PE can be achieved oh-so easily, and if you drug to it, you can potentially use THE VERY BEST of PE setups.
I *used* a 5 slot JUDGE after the patch, just to test it. I didnt lose a fight to a single tank, I wont name them, as u know who u are ;) - My point is, i happened to think Judge was equal to, if not better than ALL of the other pistols - but only if you skill for an attacking setup (Nice RoF).
I use RoLH as i like to be different. When EVERYONE was using the RoLH, I went Wyatt Earp. Now, I havent seen another RoLH PE for a long time, hence, im back to using that again.
As for the argument...
I think
JUDGE > BoH.
Judge is easier to aim, APPEARS to do MUCH more damage (especially to tanks since it had its boost) and is just a plain sexy gun.
PS - Have u tried an X Ray Judge on PPU's? ;)
juvestar15
19-02-04, 17:55
I don't like drugs(Rules out rolh and boh).
I hate the Libby.
I cbf getting a slotted Blacksun.
Looks like that leaves the Judge(Which i have 2 of soon 3).
That's why i chose Judge. :)
I haven't been playing NC for 3 months so i dunno what everyone uses. I've seen 2 PEs since being back and they both had a rolh. So me != cookie-cutter. :)
About slutsumi. I don't even bother with that guy he kicks my ass easily. Dribble, if you can't dodge/not take damage from slut, no gun will help you. Take it from me. :)
I played around more with BoH and Judge. I like the Judge way better. So i'll stick with it a while. It's getting a nice damage boost isnt it?
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 17:58
Originally posted by L0KI
As u know, Dex 100 on a PE can be achieved oh-so easily, and if you drug to it, you can potentially use THE VERY BEST of PE setups.
Currently the setup I am using (ppr/moveon), but the dent to my hp from redflash is nasty (about 25 hp in total), if I use whiteflash though, I have to take it twice as much and my runspeed is fucked.
With redflash I have 83 tc 174 pc and 78 agl 83 atl, that's WITH the pc1/spy1 buffs.
PS - Have u tried an X Ray Judge on PPU's? ;)
With HS, it's like pissing on a volcano.
All my guns are xray anyway.
Yeah fire was the big mod for a while now people are realising that most people dont use x-ray bones and are going back to x-ray moded weapons, a have diffent moded versions of all the pistols but right now my BOH's are a favourite, you have to be fully with it to hit with the BOH, if you half asleep or drunk you dont hit for shit and with a low rate of fire thats not good so I might change to a Judge or a lib but other than that BOH w1ns ;D
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Currently the setup I am using (ppr/moveon), but the dent to my hp from redflash is nasty (about 25 hp in total), if I use whiteflash though, I have to take it twice as much and my runspeed is fucked.
With redflash I have 83 tc 174 pc and 78 agl 83 atl, that's WITH the pc1/spy1 buffs.
With HS, it's like pissing on a volcano.
All my guns are xray anyway.
Dribble, using a moveon, and a ppr with a sa and sf....exp reflex 4, you can get enough str to use Duranite 3, enough int to use Med energy belt, enough dex (exactly 100) to use judge, have 65 resist everything with 480 hp, and ROCK the HOUSE.
/edit ALL WITHOUT DRUGS
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 18:34
Originally posted by Artie
Dribble, using a moveon, and a ppr with a sa and sf....exp reflex 4, you can get enough str to use Duranite 3, enough int to use Med energy belt, enough dex (exactly 100) to use judge, have 65 resist everything with 480 hp, and ROCK the HOUSE.
/edit ALL WITHOUT DRUGS
Erm... Str 63, enough for durnit3/inq3 chest indeed, but not for helmet or legs, so useless if you are useing PA.
SA, SF, PPR, MOVEON, expReflex is indeed dex 100.
However, agl will be appaling.
Use the reflex4, which is +5 atl not end, and redflash and get the runspeed that is needed.
I could put a lot more into WEP and lom some PC to agl, but then my RoF which is allready at a horrific 160 rpm, would be even lower.
//edit, I have 450hp with redflash.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Erm... Str 63, enough for durnit3/inq3 chest indeed, but not for helmet or legs, so useless if you are useing PA.
SA, SF, PPR, MOVEON, expReflex is indeed dex 100.
However, agl will be appaling.
Use the reflex4, which is +5 atl not end, and redflash and get the runspeed that is needed.
I could put a lot more into WEP and lom some PC to agl, but then my RoF which is allready at a horrific 160 rpm, would be even lower.
//edit, I have 450hp with redflash.
reflex 4 only gives +4 dex not 5, and 63 str is enough for boots trousers and helm.
At this setup i capped damage with judge, and ran fine (70/80 runspeed)
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 18:41
Originally posted by Artie
reflex 4 only gives +4 dex not 5, and 63 str is enough for boots trousers and helm.
At this setup i capped damage with judge, and ran fine (70/80 runspeed)
Are you on crack?
inq3 helm and trousers are str 64 and 65 repectively, I think I would be using them if I could.
I have had this setup since PA came out.
Yes reflex4 is only dex +4, but I drug to use judge.
What was your RoF btw? more than 160 rpm?
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Are you on crack?
inq3 helm and trousers are str 64 and 65 repectively, I think I would be using them if I could.
I have had this setup since PA came out.
Yes reflex4 is only dex +4, but I drug to use judge.
What was your RoF btw? more than 160 rpm?
ah yeah it was and sorry, lol you're right about the armor. You can still use heavy inq boots though. I prefer not to drug for normal combat though.
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 18:52
Personally, the loss in xray armour when switching to inq3 boots, means that I have to spend more points in Xray resist, than I 'gain' in fire, as I am tipped over then 50 base points in xrr.
Shelter boots still win out for me.
Um your guy's math is off. Here's my Judge setup
SA +6 Dex
MOVEON +3 Str
SF +5 Dex
PPR
Experimental Reflex 4 +5 Dex
Base dex: 80
Implants: +16
Total: 96
With PA3 +4 making the magic 100 Dex. No drugs necessary, using Heavy Inq boots and medium energy belt with high resists and solid HP. The best setup I've found for judge, maybe a touch low on AGI but you can make up for it with ATH since you have the Moveon/PPR...
Originally posted by Harbodus
Um your guy's math is off. Here's my Judge setup
SA +6 Dex
MOVEON +3 Str
SF +5 Dex
PPR
Experimental Reflex 4 +5 Dex
Base dex: 80
Implants: +16
Total: 96
With PA3 +4 making the magic 100 Dex. No drugs necessary, using Heavy Inq boots and medium energy belt with high resists and solid HP. The best setup I've found for judge, maybe a touch low on AGI but you can make up for it with ATH since you have the Moveon/PPR...
That's what i've been saying lol
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 19:09
Arg!!
It's not off. I DRUG TO GET THE DEX.
Dammit. The rof without it is simply too low, It's bad enough having average speed and 160 rpm, but having even lower runspeed and lower rof is intollerable.
No self respecting PE should have lower than 80/80 overall. (not that I respect myself :p)
Resists and HP aren't that high with moveon/ppr, I still only have 450 hp and 130 energy armour, libby/bs pes can get far higher numbers.
Have you used a libby lately?
I have an all artifact 5 slot uber lib, and the thing just misses when it wants to. No thanks, I'd rather slow myself a touch and use a weapon THAT HITS. I haven't been dueling as much lately, but I can give most anyone a good fight. Hell I won my only duel with Arty here, but I think she was tired cause she left NF right afterwards. She always used to chew me up when I was a monk back in the day tho, so it kinda felt good that night :P OMG HAX IM TLEEING THE GM!!!1111!!!!!
Originally posted by Harbodus
Have you used a libby lately?
I have an all artifact 5 slot uber lib, and the thing just misses when it wants to. No thanks, I'd rather slow myself a touch and use a weapon THAT HITS. I haven't been dueling as much lately, but I can give most anyone a good fight. Hell I won my only duel with Arty here, but I think she was tired cause she left NF right afterwards. She always used to chew me up when I was a monk back in the day tho, so it kinda felt good that night :P OMG HAX IM TLEEING THE GM!!!1111!!!!!
yeah if i remember right it was lke 4-5 am in the morning. You pwned me, and yea....the lib has the tendancy to piss you off. It just....doesn't work, then does, then doesn't...
Hell, yesterday i got pwned by shadowdancer...a APU. lol.....a apu beat me, and i was using a 5 slot uber libby...the weapon DESIGNED to kill monks. =\
Eh...C'est La Vie...i'll use my judge again when i get a sa.
well shad is a nasty APU, but I hear ya about the libby thing. I still have nightmares about you circling around old Harbodus with a lib, all i heard was *thunk-thunk-thunk-thunk-thunk-thunk-thunk-thunk* :P
"You have died."
I'd grumble to myself about the lib someday being nerfed, and now look what it got me. I really wanted to run a liberator setup and all i gotta say is fuck that.
I'll bet now that you've been playing some more we'd have a nice duel, I'll try to look you up some night when it isn't so late :)
ok, here's my question then, have someone did comparision in dmg between judge and BS? Is judge more powerful than BS?
Well, right now i'm using blacksun/libby and feel quite comfortable with it - although i'm not terribly dangerous in fight, i have good resists, capped dmg on both weapons (libby&BS) and also have nice hacking (105) and vhc (37).
I admit that BS dmg is not that great, but u just cannot miss with it, so it's ok for me since i have usually 10-15 fps in a fight and regular lags which makes me quite...eehm, vulnerable sometimes.
And as far as i remember it was pretty hard to cap a dmg on rayguns in comparision to every other weapon - how's it in case of judge?
az
With my setup I believe I am 1% away from capping judge. Seems to hit hard enough tho...
Dribble Joy
19-02-04, 21:08
Originally posted by Xylaz
ok, here's my question then, have someone did comparision in dmg between judge and BS? Is judge more powerful than BS?
And as far as i remember it was pretty hard to cap a dmg on rayguns in comparision to every other weapon - how's it in case of judge?
az
Pre patch the judge was slightly more powerful than the top end of the BS. Judge got a 12% dmg boost in the last patch, so it is more powerfull.
Rayguns aren't harder to cap, but getting a 120% BS is hard.
Originally posted by Xylaz
ok, here's my question then, have someone did comparision in dmg between judge and BS? Is judge more powerful than BS?
Judge >>> BS
-Argent aka Taratella
tho guys, if u ever actually tryed the BoH, its Bonus dmg is pretty big as to is RoLH
As ive read several times in this thread and others alike, im gonna comment on it:
The "secret" to a great Pistol PE is runspeed.
70/80 just doesnt cut it.
I have 110/110 with drugs, and still manage optimal resists.
It's all about the bunny-pstol-fu school of fighting.
Dribble Joy
20-02-04, 03:30
Runspeed only works if your comp is good enough, fps still affects it.
When I'm in NF and I get 20 fps just watching a fight, I need all the defences I need.
Btw, what does 'optimal resists' mean?, it depends on to many things, having anything less than 450+ hp and 120 in any armour is suicide. Well.. for me at least.
I still need to go back to my notes, my hp/resist balance is fucked atm.
If I'm not mistaken, and I probably am, beam weapons aren't "part specific" strikers. The damage is distributed across the body when shot.
I played a Judge PE for a while and I love the gun, but at the end of my career, I went to hacking PE, gimped my TC a bit and used a Liberator/Raygun/Tangent Epic pistol. I didn't notice much drop in my striking ability and I love--repeat, LOVE--hacking.
That's just my two cents though.
druging up isnt an option to some people... my spy uses one 10 min drug, and even thats a pain in the ass... also when I win with my pe, I like knowing its me winning... not because I have 2 or 3 drugs boosting me. Also, the faster you run, the harder it is to aim too.. i noticed the slower i move the more i hit, so ive struck a balance between movement speed for dodging and hitting well.
SigmaDraconis
20-02-04, 04:21
oops forget it misread ^^
juvestar15
20-02-04, 05:11
Originally posted by VetteroX
druging up isnt an option to some people... my spy uses one 10 min drug, and even thats a pain in the ass... also when I win with my pe, I like knowing its me winning... not because I have 2 or 3 drugs boosting me. Also, the faster you run, the harder it is to aim too.. i noticed the slower i move the more i hit, so ive struck a balance between movement speed for dodging and hitting well.
Ye that's my main problem atm. I run too fast, I'm too used to tanks and Rifle PEs. I'll be lucky it to hit someone 3 times in a duel before dying, it's pathetic.
I use both BoH and Judge, get 170 rof on judge and 80 rof on BoH or so, give or take. I've tried both a lot.
Judge:
Easy to aim, more damage (potentially), easier to cap, better resists/hp/runspeed, easier to use, can hit stealthed people.
BoH:
Easier to kill people with (especially at low hp), makes a funny sound so people laugh so hard they can't concentrate and end up dying, long range.
FYI: PC is at 185 self buffed, wep is at 98. 120 all stat guns.
They're both good.. I prefer BoH over judge unless I want to kill stealthed people or not use PA.
Oh, and incase you didn't notice, the RoF cap for most pistols in the game is 92 bursts / min.
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