View Full Version : Stagnant factions.
I really think its pathetic how often people change factions. I understand that people want to do epics and the implementation of HQ guards has definitely done a good job of stopping people from faction hopping but i'd like to see even more permanency to certain factions, right now, sure it sucks to change a faction but where is the loyalty involved? Did you just all the sudden get head from rezza and decide that you will go from TG to CA? Or did you finally get rid of selling vehicles and all the sudden thought it would be better to get the perks of being a club veronique secuirty guy? IT seems that early in retail there was VERY little faction hopping, and i liked it much better, cause i could really get into my "cause" of the faction i was in, but now its just fuck all. I'm not saying you should never be able to change but the faction symp and definitely not hte 300k are anything but a detourant. It should be either higher faction symp and higher cost, or make it so it can only be done a certain amount of times. Thats just my thoughts on it.
hah in early retail it was free all you had to do was join a clan in that faction...so back then faction hopping as individuals was crazy rampant...but faction hopping clans were rare
Imo the faction hopping prob is down to epics, the only way i can see it being fixed is to make all epic items only able to work while your in that faction, this would only be realistic however after all epics have been introduced.
but the epics arent ballanced...so one faction would be insanely overcrowded while others are totally devoid of ppl(kinda like now i guess)
Idealy yes, you should suffer for leaving your faction. In reality though it won't work out.
1) We have epics, which are clearely biased for certain classes. As a monk I will not be doing the Tsunami epic for a rifle. I'll be switching to crahn to get the glove. Until each factions reward all of their members, you will have faction hopping.
2) The factions themselves are unbalanced, their allies and hostiles are totaly not equal. Some factions attract players because they have more hostiles then others, and vice versa some enjoy less hostiles. This leads to certain factions being more popular.
3) Even more unbalanced are apartments, some factions are totaly much better to start off as. Like how about a tsunami starter which has 8 cabs. The clan apartments are also ridiculously varried. Biotech and Next have a crappy rectangular room. Tsunami has a dirty little apartment. Tangent has a big wide apartment with plenty of space. That's definitly going to make some factions more favorable.
4) Then we have the mega clans which dominate the server. If you're not in their faction then you're screwed. Especialy with gr settings the way they are.
So yes it would be excellent if faction loyalty was encouraged more. But until they fix the game balance it's not gonna happen.
Originally posted by joran420
but the epics arent ballanced...so one faction would be insanely overcrowded while others are totally devoid of ppl(kinda like now i guess)
Yeah that would be another prob altogether though, from the test server it looks like thier balancing all epic weps, mabey just a nerf to certain imps, although having the pp chip isnt too bad as it might be the best epic reward but its the worst faction when your a high lvl char looking to do more than lvl.
Man, early Retail was rampant with faction hoppers - a damn sight more than now.
What ever faction rules cycrow rules in population
NS_CHROME54
18-02-04, 20:46
Originally posted by Cyphor
Yeah that would be another prob altogether though, from the test server it looks like thier balancing all epic weps, mabey just a nerf to certain imps, although having the pp chip isnt too bad as it might be the best epic reward but its the worst faction when your a high lvl char looking to do more than lvl.
well we can always hope that tsunami and next become big factions so that PP has someone to fight.
Each faction should have specific advantages to it (and these should be all worthwhile). This could be along the lines of the CA PowerArmour, except more useful than that, since it is at the endgame that people do a lot of faction hopping.
Originally posted by Selendor
Each faction should have specific advantages to it (and these should be all worthwhile). This could be along the lines of the CA PowerArmour, except more useful than that, since it is at the endgame that people do a lot of faction hopping.
That excludes monks from joining CA. Just like I have little reason to remain loyal to Tsunami if all they give is a rifle. Some may be fine with valueing rp over pvp, but pvp is what most people do in neocron. To stay competative in pvp, you hafta use the best equipment you can get. So basicly I hafta choose between rp/loyalty to my faction and having fun in pvp. You really should be able to do both, this is not a FPS this is not a RPG, this is a combination of both.
I'm fine with factions favoring certain groups, but not to the exclusion of all others. For example each faction could have a reward for each profession/class, but of those one will be the really good reward. Like Crahn could have a series of gloves rather then just one. The monk glove would be the "best" prize and reward monks. Tanks/PE's/Spies that are Crahn would be able to get a somewhat less powerful glove which boosts their psi abilities. Thus they would have an advantage over members of other factions. Sure they don't have the absolute best, but they have something that will help. If the Tsunami epic ever goes in, I will feel that my faction does not want me. Crahn on the other hand would welcome me with open arms. Why should Tsunami blatantly ignore some members of their faction? Why would any faction do that?
Why higher the cost or trouble for it thats not the problem, the problem is the factions RUIN the game a faction almost has NO meaning (neutral shit etc....).
That is exactly my point, but if someone wants to pay 20 million to faction hop instead of 300k, that would be a huge money sink and if it was faction symp of 100 instead of 50, that would really make people think long and hard.
NS_CHROME54
18-02-04, 21:17
Originally posted by bounty
That is exactly my point, but if someone wants to pay 20 million to faction hop instead of 300k, that would be a huge money sink and if it was faction symp of 100 instead of 50, that would really make people think long and hard.
not bad... i like it.
PPL switch factions cause there bored of it etc...so why make this game xtremelly annoying with 20 mil for a factoin switch thats total nonsense besides 300K is not for every1 cheap....
This game needs a faction balance (and being a faction with for example TT as ally but also FA as ally its uter bullshit same like crahn with bd and tg ally...) things like that have to get banished forever they ruin to much , and make some factions extremely boring if u play them right or just major fest of SL loss and moaning...
If the factions WOULD work then u would have a good point bounty, but the factions are so messed up i cant agree on any point tbh. I am loyal 2 the faction im in but switched so many times now.....cause factions can change shape so quickely it isnt even funny.
SigmaDraconis
18-02-04, 21:45
havnt changed faction since DarK moved from FA to CS... that was.. eh.. a well long time ago hehe... with the exception of epics or one of my dozen or so rerolls..
anyway.. faction bonuses..great for RP... decent for PvP.. total shit for balance.. if you make them too impotent people still wont have a reason to stay in a faction...if you make them too powerful/useful you'll cause even more faction crowding..
so i leave you with this... let the loyal people and the RPers remain.. and let the faction hopping bandwagoning twats be :P
its all part of a game, any game really that a "Faction" or even clan concept can be applied to..
First faction I joined, Tangent Tech.
I moved to BD because my clan was. then they were going to move to CA, but due to many personal reasons I decided to leave the clan and now im back in Tangent Tech.
To be honest, Ive been tangent tech all the time..... including during beta 4.... (or at least most of the time)
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
havnt changed faction since DarK moved from FA to CS... that was.. eh.. a well long time ago hehe... with the exception of epics or one of my dozen or so rerolls..
anyway.. faction bonuses..great for RP... decent for PvP.. total shit for balance.. if you make them too impotent people still wont have a reason to stay in a faction...if you make them too powerful/useful you'll cause even more faction crowding..
so i leave you with this... let the loyal people and the RPers remain.. and let the faction hopping bandwagoning twats be :P
its all part of a game, any game really that a "Faction" or even clan concept can be applied to..
Why can't there be pvp fans who also rp? I want to stay Tsunami, I love the faction, but crahn is the only faction that would reward me with a useful epic. As a tank would you give up moveon/pp resistor/speedgun just to stay in your faction? Supposedly FA's epic prize will be a tradeskiller chip. Does this mean the only good tradeskillers will be in FA, and thus anti city?
Originally posted by Carinth
Why can't there be pvp fans who also rp? I want to stay Tsunami, I love the faction, but crahn is the only faction that would reward me with a useful epic.
Sometimes you have to be more than your epic.
made a post about this a while ago
if you make faction hopping more of a time and money sink then less people will do it.
Clownst0pper
18-02-04, 22:32
What ever faction rules cycrow rules in population
Look at all the mongs cartel has now :confused: :rolleyes:
I think that if anything, this will increase faction to faction trade. if you want another faction's epic item, simply trade yours for that one. SUre a crahn glove will benefit a monk more, but don't you think that there might be a tank or what not that will want your epic item? I think there is.
You state that people change factions now out of boredom. Well trying to get 20 million dollars and 100 faction sympathy will not create boredom, but yet another challenge as I see it. I think a cool idea would be to give much harder missions, more like epics that reward you with a greater amount of faction sympathy points, in the vicinity of 15-20 faction points. It may take an hour to do etc, but overall it will be well worth it and be a lot more exciting than killing sewer bees.
I'm not saying make it impossible to switch factions, i'm just saying make it damn hard. Make people think twice about it before joining or leaving a faction. This is a good opportunity to add a money sink in as well. Right now faction hopping is a joke and I don't think its at all how the game was intended.
QuantumDelta
18-02-04, 22:50
We've been over this.
Epics shouldn't be locked.
Although the concept of Paladin is something that is viewed in at least two different lights (People like myself see Paladin's as above and beyond petty factional conflicts, and as peace makers, people who can be trusted always.... and then others see them as dirty faction hoppers with no loyalties)
Excluding for epics, my chars have changed factions once (CA -> FA)
However things like requirements on Paladin should be high soul light/faction symps/etc..
As for actual faction hopping;
Read my sig.
People are sheep.
Nearly all of uranus has done that a fair few times.
I try to stay in a certain faction but ive hopped so many times now like 6 changes orso o_O . Well like u said ppl hop between factoins once TG in saturn was english now only german u see (reason why i left earlier, u cant see any word english ;s just a example how things can on a sudden change no offense ^^).
And the factoins are really bad, every faction has somethign carebear with damn neutral allies etc, no way to have a good builded faction with good sociality...cause there is no point of staying in a certain faction it gets to must twists after time....
And increasing the hard time to change faction will NOT solve the problem with the factions at all u will simply force some ppl to stay in it cause they cant afford it....The neutral / ally system is just plain wrong....id rather see that fixed first before increasing the prices to get a char to other faction....
Once was in a Crahn clan who tried to act in rp way , but its unpossible to even start such decent thing wiht the system....
Shadow Dancer
18-02-04, 23:50
Sorry I won't get into the reasons now, Carinth tapped into some of the reasons, but as of now the faction system is extremely flawed and something like this would only serve to annoy and aggravate the players.
Originally posted by bounty
That is exactly my point, but if someone wants to pay 20 million to faction hop instead of 300k, that would be a huge money sink and if it was faction symp of 100 instead of 50, that would really make people think long and hard.
I don't like the idea, people will just reroll rather than changing factions. Epic mules will be disposable because it'll be easier to reroll rather than change factions. Database churn will ensue. Epic items would increase in value astronomically as it becomes harder and more time consuming to acquire them. A possible counter to this effect would be to make epics runnable more than once, and then to make sure that each faction has highly desireable epic rewards (unlike present--CA PA anyone?)
It is difficult to change factions compared to the start of retail, especially considering the hardship with changing from one faction to another hostile to it. If they take things the way it seems they intend, changing to a hostile faction would actually require a change to an intermediary neutral faction first.
Whitestuff
19-02-04, 01:33
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
to make sure that each faction has highly desireable epic rewards (unlike present--CA PA anyone?)
OT: I like my CAPA very much thank you. When I cap my CS without my stupid PA, what do you think I will be wearing? No ATL hit and the armor is as good as the tank PA lvl 2? Easy choice to me.....
On Topic: I like the faction rules as they are now. Not everyone can earn 300k to switch anytime they want. I just switched for my first time ever last week and I plan on switching back, but now I gotta earn money again..... And not to mention doing missions to get sympathy up. OMG If I have to kill one more aggressor/cyclops/rat I think I may actually puke.
id like to see the epics remain open for faction jumping, cos they are nice items to collect, and tbh have become partof the PvP setup for some of the item.
however, rather than take epics items away from people i would like to see more faction specific items beyond the epics, so say if you have +90 FS for your faction you have the option of wearing faction emblemed power armour(or clothes) something liek that, and then maybe introduce more missions that give access to other items, like say for CA there is a mission to be able to get a copbot rifle(seeing as people like it, though i think this item should remain in CA faction)you know stuff like that so that people would want to go to a faction, but no something that would become needed for PvP more just cool items to have and use
edit i like the CA PA, i just dont like the colour they chose for it
editx2: just spotted the paladin thingy in QDs post that was another thing as to why it shouldnt be locked
Shadow Dancer
19-02-04, 02:06
Great idea ezza.
Also, getting a nice rank for having 100 FS in your faction. Maybe like "Crahn's Elite Unit" for crahn faction.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Great idea ezza.
Also, getting a nice rank for having 100 FS in your faction. Maybe like "Crahn's Elite Unit" for crahn faction. yes ranks for stuff like that would also be cool
You know I have always wondered why Diamond Real Estate is so empty. I mean, they are at war with only BD and TG. (Same as City Mercs). That seems like an awesome faction.
Its a bit hard to roleplay as DRE, but its not like people attempt to roleplay anyways.
Ive only seen two DRE clans in my entire time on Pluto. One was DX Warlocks newb helping clan and the other was that one called like, "The Mafia" or something.
Seriously, ffs maybe some of you can leave TT and TG and start a DRE clan. :angel:
I was thinking about this very thing last night. In some games the only way to change factions is to reroll your character. That might be a bit too extreme now but after BDoY, I think players should have to pick whether they are pro-city or ant-city and it is final. Changing sides would require a reroll.
SigmaDraconis
19-02-04, 05:09
yeh Mafia was nice..but a beta clan (unless yur refering to one of the look alike clans)
and carinth.. some PvPers do like to RP...im not syaing that KK should cater "faction bonuses" more to either side.. they need a nice balance otherwise the RP aspect isnt going to outweigh the PvP benefit a bonus.. or item may have (or vice versa). Also note im not refering to Epics as faction bonuses...epics are fine, faction bonuses should be along the lines of subtle things like, all TT runners get +5 for weapon skills in all OP zones... or DRE runners get slight discounts on apt keys.. NEXT runners get the same for vehicles.. etc etc.
If faction bonuses became items like epics, i think thats where you would start to see the imbalances like people crowding certain factions..or certain classes flocking to different factions..
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