View Full Version : "Killed by..." message
Okay, my TG runner was just PKd on Saturn because NorNilk THOUGHT that I PKd NorNilk at some event in OZ station last night. Nevermind I was doped out on my mind on painkillers last night cause of my wisdom teeth, and was watching TV with my wife all night. (But hey, at least he had a reason for killing, which is good... too bad he were wrong).
So anyway, why dont we have "killed by" messages? The computers know who we are, where we are, they know when we kill someone and who we kill because it assigns SL and FS hits.
This would also give the PKers a bit more glory cause all too often in crowded situation you have no idea who kills you. I know Vett likes the newbs he kills to come after him, but I have seen it happen SEVERAL times out at the MB where he runs in, PKs, runs out, and no one even knows who it was.
So why not have a kill message? If only one runner attacks, it lists that runner. If more than one runner attacks, it lists which did the most damage.
Thoughts?
shodanjr_gr
17-02-04, 13:43
Yep, agreed!!!!
How would it decide who killed you, whoever dealt the killing blow?
I think its a good idea, snipers might disagree.
juvestar15
17-02-04, 13:44
Who would it list though like in an OP fight?
As difficult as it sounds, id like an option that lists who did any damage to you. Like a list of runners and what damage they did to you. Bit extreme though. :)
Maybe even the runner who did most damage to you. That would work.
Mumblyfish
17-02-04, 13:51
No. If the player doesn't see who kills them, then they shouldn't know. How would you know who killed you if you didn't see them do it?
I'm a stealther sniper, takes away the whole thing for me.
I think it is a bad idea :-)
Original monk
17-02-04, 13:56
im a sniper, i say no ... :)
its a very good idea, but it doesnt improve youre stealthyness if someones gonna start yelling youre name on the tradechannel as soon as ya killed em with youre SH or sumthing snipelike ...
like: NC-Trade: ONOOZ original spy yust sniped me at jerriko !!! be carefull !!!
to say a simple and fast example ...
and ffcourse they can yell that now also witouth the namenotice ... but if he didnt see youre name ... and he yells: onoz sniper at jerriko, then no-one knows for who they have to look or for who they have to be carefull for ..
like i told ya its a very good idea, but not for snipers :)
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
No. If the player doesn't see who kills them, then they shouldn't know. How would you know who killed you if you didn't see them do it?
Word.
Tidus_Origin
17-02-04, 13:59
If the killer (or person who did most dmg) is within 1000m (or another preset range), then it shows the message on the victim's chat screen.
If they're outside 1000m (snipers, etc.) then it wouldn't show the message.
This way, the ppl who want this can have it, and the snipers can stay undetected during their sniping/PK runs. :)
1000m? What's your clipping range, monsieur? :eek:
It is not just snipers who would be annoyed by this - if I manage to kill someone without him even noticing me (may it be at close, mid or long range) I have certainly deserved to stay undiscovered. Why punish me for it instead?
Maybe you only get the message if they are in the locals list? That way snipers/droners would be safe, whereas in close range when the chances of you not seeing them is minimal you know who it is as if you saw them face to face.
no for one main reason Planetside this game is allready starting to turn into it.
PS is still a good game btw ;)
Mumblyfish
17-02-04, 14:22
Originally posted by Morganth
Maybe you only get the message if they are in the locals list? That way snipers/droners would be safe, whereas in close range when the chances of you not seeing them is minimal you know who it is as if you saw them face to face.
Originally posted by sparrowtm
It is not just snipers who would be annoyed by this - if I manage to kill someone without him even noticing me (may it be at close, mid or long range) I have certainly deserved to stay undiscovered. Why punish me for it instead?
Cruzbroker
17-02-04, 14:24
I don't like to hear teh whine..
Mighty Max
17-02-04, 14:32
Then u can still set them on ignore, but make it possible to take a revenge.
nah, if i want people to know it was me i just say something in local, mind you its not hard to notice some dumb melee tank chopping away at ya
Definatly, and I think u should be able to add a short message to the end of it as well, customisable.
Originally posted by sparrowtm
1000m? What's your clipping range, monsieur? :eek:
It is not just snipers who would be annoyed by this - if I manage to kill someone without him even noticing me (may it be at close, mid or long range) I have certainly deserved to stay undiscovered. Why punish me for it instead?
Using pesudo-science of course. Even if you manage to stay visually unseen, the close-range motion sensor (which enables local list) at the victim's suit will detect the killer and record it for swift retribution... that's why. :)
Originally posted by Tidus_Origin
If they're outside 1000m (snipers, etc.) then it wouldn't show the message.
when u can see more then 600m ?
No, defeats the point of sniping. The entire idea is too make sure your target doesnt know they were sniped, coulda been killed by a mob.
Originally posted by Saza
No, defeats the point of sniping. The entire idea is too make sure your target doesnt know they were sniped, coulda been killed by a mob. apart from the fact he can see his tag lying next to him;)
Originally posted by Saza
No, defeats the point of sniping. The entire idea is too make sure your target doesnt know they were sniped, coulda been killed by a mob.
Like said before: only ppl on local list would cause a "killed by leetpk'erd00d" message.
Originally posted by ezza
apart from the fact he can see his tag lying next to him;)
Yeah, except for three things:
1) Sum people are stoopid and dont realise their tag only drops if a runner hurts them
2) Sumtimes the tag lands inside the body, and then they cant see it
3) They may have been hurt before by sum other runner.
Plus it takes the mystery away from sniping to have a "killed by..." msg
Mumblyfish
17-02-04, 14:49
But then what if I assassinated someone at close range from behind, not giving them the chance to turn around? They shouldn't get a message then.
This is a terrible idea, it's just trying to make Neocron more of an FPS. [MPS]Mull37pr00f5kunk killed {RATZ}IKEELUDED41 with Headshot from a Plasma Cannon.
Matthew.v.smith
17-02-04, 14:52
Well.
Yes and no.
Yes because it will let ppl know u owned em good.
But NO because it will also defeat the point of being a "silent" killer.
Theirs no point in sniping someone thinking Yes! i got em without them seeing me.
only to get a DM calling u a "noob" or something.
P.S) If Nornilker DMs u just remember to "remind him" of the Green mutant "bug" which forced him to delete his tank roflol!
Matty.:angel:
in that case when i kill people with my ravager, can i have the message runner xxx died to consecro animus's green shaft, like in unreal tour 2003:D
Nonono......NO!!!!!
I dont like this. Neocron gives away to much information to players as it is. You got faction names, clan names, names enemies and friendlies, damage hit points show, local and whatnot. Everything is served to you on a plate. It makes the game feel, well, more a game rather like a virtual world.
How will knowing you sniped you in any way ruin it for snipers? Its not like the message would say "You were sniped by XXXX, who was up in that tower behind you to the left, and just stealthed and is heading north..."
So right now, aside from the dogtags (which few people bother with) whats to stop someone from saying "nah, you didnt shoot me in that op fight"????
Its about accountability. And just because Planetside has this it doesnt mean that it would take away from Neocron.
This feature is in Jumpgate. For those that havent played, jumpgate is a true MMORPG FPS- true, meaning that there is calculations done into your shots like in Neocron, it comes down to true piloting skill (its a space flight game). In that game when a pilot is downed it states on the local chat "Pilot XXXX was killed by pilot YYYY."
There is no debate on who did what. There is full accountability.
Who in Neocron really counts on never being detected even after the kill? Who kills other runners and wants to remain anonymous the whole time?
Most players WANT to be known. A lot of PKers have explained that they PK cause they expect it to generate more combat for them. Well, a big part of that is knowing WHO PKd you.
Like I said, all too many times people have been out at the bunker, and a PKer comes up and starts killing people. No one is able to catch who it is because of the slow interface of Neocron in terms of updating the local list.
Sure if your local list was always up to date you can maybe glance down and see who was around you when you died. But as it stands now, someone can easily run in, kill you, and run out without you seeing them or their name on local.
And thats not about being sneeky. Thats about the game code.
P.S) If Nornilker DMs u just remember to "remind him" of the Green mutant "bug" which forced him to delete his tank roflol!
Matty.That was him? The one that was in here WHINING about killing the mutants in PP? Oh yeah... well, now this all makes sense. I guess his behavior in game makes sense now.
And to think, this morning in game he bragged about how his SL was at -35, and he acted all tough like he killed Reza to get it that low. LOL
If you want to get known as a pk, just dm your target. Thats an option that works now and if I want to be an unknown killer just let me be one. If someone cant get their cursor on the pk fast enough to read his/hers name, well to bad.
Lets keep what little is left of an atmosphere of uncertainty in this game. Knowing "everything" is not very fun imho.
Originally posted by Mirco
If you want to get known as a pk, just dm your target. Thats an option that works now and if I want to be an unknown killer just let me be one. If someone cant get their cursor on the pk fast enough to read his/hers name, well to bad.
Lets keep what little is left of an atmosphere of uncertainty in this game. Knowing "everything" is not very fun imho. In a lot of the PKing I have seen take place I doubt the killer even knows the name of their target. Red = dead doesnt allow for too much name processing.
Atmosphere of uncertainty? I dont consider the lack of RPOS updates allowing people to quickly run and kill someone else without being detected a positive addition to the atmosphere in the game.
I would even support removing the local list if it meant we get to know who we killed and who killed us.
No. If the player doesn't see who kills them, then they shouldn't know. How would you know who killed you if you didn't see them do it?
Nuff said...
Nuff said? How do you know a player is near you if you dont see them? Its called a RPOS, and we have one in game and not in real life.
How would you know that you killed someone if you fired an AOE blast around a corner and didnt see them? Oh yeah, you get SL/FS modications...
I dont see how that one liner answers much of anything, except supporting the idea of removing the local list altogether.
FFS. NO!
This thread appears bi-monthly, and none of the veterans want it as they have seen it implemented (beta 3), and it is crapper than you think.
Jeez. If I see one more thread about "oh KK, implement a system for the game to do something for us so we don't have to pay much attention/effort" I swear something crazy will happen. :rolleyes:
Steve
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Jeez. If I see one more thread about "oh KK, implement a system for the game to do something for us so we don't have to pay much attention/effort" I swear something crazy will happen. :rolleyes: Oh I agree with you, I wish the TG runner would have paid some effort to see who was PKing him. He claims I shot him from behind in the back of the head and he "saw" me do it, even though I wasnt online.
So yes, I wish he would have used some more effort.
I also wish the game would update the local list properly. If so, people could perhaps see who is nearby and deduce who is attacking them.
But Jeez, if you think that someone in the middle of mob hunting will have the time to scroll through a local list and remember every name on there to see who killed them, I think you are mistaken.
I have thought to implement a different method.
If I sniper and kill you I will leave a scorpian dinner by your corpse. :p
ph33r the scorpian
Get used to being PKed, watch your back, this is a gritty cyberpunk universe, so if you don't pay attention to possible hostile players (which is everyone except your clanmates and close friends) then death should come to you swiftly.
I'm not saying watch the local list, I'm saying watch your back, and just because you got PKed because somebody thought you PKed them does not warrant a "Killed by.." message.
Steve
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Get used to being PKed, watch your back, this is a gritty cyberpunk universe, so if you don't pay attention to possible hostile players (which is everyone except your clanmates and close friends) then death should come to you swiftly.
I'm not saying watch the local list, I'm saying watch your back, and just because you got PKed because somebody thought you PKed them does not warrant a "Killed by.." message.
Steve If people watched their back well enough I guess I wouldnt be having to explain myself to this guy, now would I??? ;)
And drop the "gritty cyberpunk universe" line. Neocron is far from that.
Being a spy, i prefer to kill anonymously, then hack the belt and not have the dude take revenge on my poor brittle spy body when he comes up behind me some days later :-)
And yes, i do collect dog tags from the victim when i can, i keep the high level ones in my app just to stare at them drooling, saying "she's ours.... my precious... theys wil not take yous from us anymore, noooo my preciiouus" :-)
Aziraphale
17-02-04, 17:40
This would remove any need for stealthy kills and most of the satisfaction from pulling one off.
Bad idea, don't see any point in it at all.
There is a difference between stealthy kills and anonymous kills.
Its crazy that people have no problem with knowing the names of people they cannot see who are nearby yet somehow knowing who it was that killed them from 5 ft away is outy of the question.
I would be fine with the system only telling you the name of the person if they were also in local, to accomodate the snipers.
Aziraphale
17-02-04, 17:48
Humm, but if someone came up behind you and shot you in the head, should you know who did it?
Sniping is the same thing, but from a distance. Assasins should be able to remain anonymous (if theyre good enough) no matter what technique they employ.
THIS ISNT COUNTER STRIKE, IF YOU DONT KNOW WHO KILLED YOU, TOUGH SHIT. WHATS NEXT, SHITTY HEAD SHOTS MESSAGES?
GAME MESSAGE>STUPID FUCK DID HEADSHOT TO MORON WITH DEVOURER FOR 200 DMG
STUPID FUCK: ROFL I AM SOOO COOL
MORON: THIS SHIT SUCKS YOU ******
STUPID FUCK: WTF YOU CALLED ME NAMES I CALL ADMIN NOW
MORON: GG
Wouldn't it be cool to see if the guy you juz filled with poison at the GR actually dies in his apt?
On the other hand, I'd hate to admit my PPU ever dies oc :angel:
I'm amazed ppl don't like the idea, I wouldda guessed all 1337 PK-ers got off by a zone-wide spam that they killed yet another 12/23 ph34rsome enemy.
i think it should only have a kill messege if the person who killed u was in your local zone
Originally posted by Duder
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ] Its funny seeing all of the PvPers get so worried about their targets actually knowing who killed them.
This is probably one area where the bravado of Vett would be well merited- I bet he would want people to know who killed them.
Mumblyfish
17-02-04, 18:07
Actually, Duder makes a fantastic point. Go you.
Psycho Killa
17-02-04, 18:10
No no weapon in this game barring you being a total noob can kil you before you have the chance to swing around and see who is nailing you.
I was hunting in the swamp cave and got nailed by an apu (i had 0 energy resist) and he nailed me and before I went dont I could see his name in local.
Im infact in favor of removal of local also.
That takes half the fun out of being a sniper or a droner.
Hah imma kami this tank he wont ever know what hit him!
Psycho killa KAMIKAZED Strych9
Doh!
Originally posted by Strych9
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
Go play Planetside or Counter Strike [ edited - flaming ]
First you condemn players who dislike death messages and then you go on and condemn players who would love to turn this into some shitty planetside/ generic mulitplayer fps with a stupid scoreboard and 1337 headshot tally counts?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND [ edited ]
[ edited ]
Originally posted by Duder
Go play Planetside or Counter Strike [ edited ].
First you condemn players who dislike death messages and then you go on and condemn players who would love to turn this into some shitty planetside/ generic mulitplayer fps with a stupid scoreboard and 1337 headshot tally counts?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND [ edited ]
[ edited ] Aw duder, did you get your feelings hurt?
I am in favor of this game having more accountability for actions, i.e RPG, which this is clearly meant to be. Everything I strive for in terms of PvP deals with being responsible for your actions and having a reason for acting.
Some players like the ideas of no safe zones at all. Why? Because then suddenly your actions in game will dictate how you are treated. That is IDEAL RPG... your actions dictate how you are treated. This suggestions only allows for that to take place. Anonymouse kills due to crappy RPOS updates and useability = no accountability. No linking of the player to the action.
Some PKers indicate that they PK cause they like action. Well, you can have a lot more action if people know you killed them. I have seen some of the more vocal PKers in here indicate that they dont even look at faction or name, they just see red and they kill it. THAT is what I am against.
Being told who killed you would not be an incentive for more mindless killing. It would provide more people the ability to engage in combat that want it. Having scoreboards and kill counts would only put a purpose into the non-RP based killing that takes placein the game.
Sorry if you cant see that, or at the very least, dont agree with it.
Doc Holliday
17-02-04, 18:20
if u do something like that i probably wouldnt have recieved something like this:
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - harassment ]
aint that funny. u dont wanna see the reply i sent back to him but i havent been online properly in about 3 weeks prior to this so u can imagine the response.
Originally posted by Strych9
Aw duder, did you get your feelings hurt?
I am in favor of this game having more accountability for actions, i.e RPG, which this is clearly meant to be. Everything I strive for in terms of PvP deals with being responsible for your actions and having a reason for acting.
Some players like the ideas of no safe zones at all. Why? Because then suddenly your actions in game will dictate how you are treated. That is IDEAL RPG... your actions dictate how you are treated. This suggestions only allows for that to take place. Anonymouse kills due to crappy RPOS updates and useability = no accountability. No linking of the player to the action.
Some PKers indicate that they PK cause they like action. Well, you can have a lot more action if people know you killed them. I have seen some of the more vocal PKers in here indicate that they dont even look at faction or name, they just see red and they kill it. THAT is what I am against.
Being told who killed you would not be an incentive for more mindless killing. It would provide more people the ability to engage in combat that want it. Having scoreboards and kill counts would only put a purpose into the non-RP based killing that takes placein the game.
Sorry if you cant see that, or at the very least, dont agree with it. if ya wanna know who killed ya go play quake or unreal:p
Aziraphale
17-02-04, 18:22
Originally posted by Doc Holliday
if u do something like that i probably wouldnt have recieved something like this:
[ edited ]
aint that funny. u dont wanna see the reply i sent back to him but i havent been online properly in about 3 weeks prior to this so u can imagine the response.
Dude, I can't even understand what he's saying.
Is it in some kind of code?
Doc Holliday
17-02-04, 18:25
thats what i thought. i think they call it bad english ;)
Strych, for the last time no! If anything its more RP to not have this implemented, because if you are the type to brag, like me when i kill DIO, then you deserve to be known. BUT, the general population wish their kills to be secretive, so that the person has to put in some effort and actually discover who killed them by asking around, looking for witnesses. It's just so easy to go "oh look (insert sniper name here) killed me. I'll dm him with abuse and say hes lame and so on and so on". This will increase the amount of bitching, and plus if you kill someone and they shout on trade "(insert sniper name here) sniping at CRP/MB/wherever" then there will be a massive manhunt for this guy. Whereas if it's "someone is sniping at CRP/MB" the manhunters will have to work to find this person. THAT is enough reason to NOT implement this idea, as opposed to the ?what? 2? 3? reasons youve given us.
Originally posted by Strych9
Aw duder, did you get your feelings hurt?
I am in favor of this game having more accountability for actions, i.e RPG, which this is clearly meant to be. Everything I strive for in terms of PvP deals with being responsible for your actions and having a reason for acting.
Some players like the ideas of no safe zones at all. Why? Because then suddenly your actions in game will dictate how you are treated. That is IDEAL RPG... your actions dictate how you are treated. This suggestions only allows for that to take place. Anonymouse kills due to crappy RPOS updates and useability = no accountability. No linking of the player to the action.
Some PKers indicate that they PK cause they like action. Well, you can have a lot more action if people know you killed them. I have seen some of the more vocal PKers in here indicate that they dont even look at faction or name, they just see red and they kill it. THAT is what I am against.
Being told who killed you would not be an incentive for more mindless killing. It would provide more people the ability to engage in combat that want it. Having scoreboards and kill counts would only put a purpose into the non-RP based killing that takes placein the game.
Sorry if you cant see that, or at the very least, dont agree with it.
George Bush's son is president! OH AM I LATE! HAHAHA WHAT A FUNNY THING TO SAY!!!
ANYWAYS, you want this game to have a more accountability for actions and choices, and thus you want to add strict "you got killed by this fucktard" messages? Where are the choices of that? If the victim got killed by during a bug of some sorts, it does not compensate for creating death messages, making it alot easier for the slowwitted people that has no understanding of the local peoples list or how to survive an attack (RUN LIKE PENIS), and creating even more retarded DMs from people who have troubles getting past the mental trauma from a game death of their character.
If a Pkers wants attention they can go scream on the custom channel, or boost on the forums. I dont think pkers needs additional help on THAT ISSUE.
No. Hell I don't even like the names on local list. Not catching the name of your killer is one of the abosolute suckiest things that can happen, and I like it that way. Its like I tell my clan mates, if some one kills you, then don't sweat it, but you sure as hell better catch their name. Vengence will be had. ;)
Btw Strych having a message pop up telling who killed you is the OPPOSITE of roleplaying. Man I need to start teaching RP classes or something. :p Just as the local list is not roleplaying. The local list is there for FPS purposes. Sure there should be some accountability for actions, but if I snipe a guy at 300 yards, you think him getting a message I killed him is supportive of roleplay? I dunno, I dont think so but maybe you can convince me. :D
Originally posted by Saza
Strych, for the last time no! If anything its more RP to not have this implemented, because if you are the type to brag, like me when i kill DIO, then you deserve to be known. BUT, the general population wish their kills to be secretive, so that the person has to put in some effort and actually discover who killed them by asking around, looking for witnesses. It's just so easy to go "oh look (insert sniper name here) killed me. I'll dm him with abuse and say hes lame and so on and so on". This will increase the amount of bitching, and plus if you kill someone and they shout on trade "(insert sniper name here) sniping at CRP/MB/wherever" then there will be a massive manhunt for this guy. Whereas if it's "someone is sniping at CRP/MB" the manhunters will have to work to find this person. THAT is enough reason to NOT implement this idea, as opposed to the ?what? 2? 3? reasons youve given us. Good points.
1. I guess I would buy the idea of people wanting secretive kills if so many people didnt tell other runners "well go get revenge." Many players see revenge as the equalizer in a PvP game, yet it is seldom possible in this game. In a duel, sure, but then who gets revenge for a duel? In ganking situations, I think the gankers would honestly like the victims to come back later and get revenge. But you have to know who to get revenge on.
In Jumpgate, as a noob pilot you easily remember who kills you or ganks you, and then you are able to actually aspire to get revenge. You can do that because of the fact that you know who killed you.
No big scoreboard. Just a message saying you were killed by xxxxxx.
Its easy to tell a newb "remember who killed you and then get revenge later", but its often not easy for a newb to know who to get revenge on.
2. I appreciate that some runners want their kills to be secretive, and understand I am not saying that every kill needs to be broadcasted. Maybe only kills by runners already in local. Have it so snipers can stay sneaky and undetected. Whatever, But saying that runners can ask around for witnisses, while nice sounding, isnt really realistic in game to do.
3. Regarding the manhunt idea, I think both choices are viable outcomes. Choice 1 is where we dont know the sniper. So you have to go on a random manhunt for any PE or Spy that happens tobe in the area. Choice 2 is where you know the sniper, and then its an ACTUAL manhunt, not a random crapshoot. How can you have a manhunt without even knowing the class, name, or faction of your target? You cant.
But like I said, have it so if you are sniping at range, there is no message (there are other things that are needed to help snipers as well- no swirly, etc. but thats another discussion).
4. Duder- your point about harassing the killer is a legit one. Absent the ignore function this would perhaps be a big concern. But any runner can ignore any other runner, so I dont see why that is some big deal. Just like killers might not want to be messaged by their targets, targets might not like getting messages by a bragging killer.
Thanks for rational responses.
Yes, show who killed you. I want people to know I killed them and I want them to come after me. If you kill someone nd dont want them to know who did it your a coward.... you can still hid e and snipe... it doesnt help them find you.
BTW I wanna say sniping in this game is lamely done. In real life if im snipied... and live.. I KNOW im being sniped... in this game, unless your eyes are locked on your hp bar, you dont know.. its bullshit. There should be a flash of red on your screen or something... NOBODY with a fiar mind can be against this... i can understand not hearing where the shots are comming from, but not KNOWING your being hit? you know thats bullshit.
Originally posted by Jest
No. Hell I don't even like the names on local list. Not catching the name of your killer is one of the abosolute suckiest things that can happen, and I like it that way. Its like I tell my clan mates, if some one kills you, then don't sweat it, but you sure as hell better catch their name. Vengence will be had. ;)
Btw Strych having a message pop up telling who killed you is the OPPOSITE of roleplaying. Man I need to start teaching RP classes or something. :p Just as the local list is not roleplaying. The local list is there for FPS purposes. Sure there should be some accountability for actions, but if I snipe a guy at 300 yards, you think him getting a message I killed him is supportive of roleplay? I dunno, I dont think so but maybe you can convince me. :D I agree the local list takes away RP. I have been saying that IF we can SOMEHOW know who is "nearby" us without seeing him, then clearly we have the tech to know who killed us.
Frankly, I am 100% behind removing the local list. Lets also remove everything from the player ID when you get the target box except name. THATS the only way to rely on people's reps and actions, right?
So I would back that idea Jest. Start a poll.
BUT
As long as we have the RPOS and local list, then it doesnt make sense that we wouldnt know who killed us. Having that known would allow for less confusion regarding who did what. It would allow for people to be held accountable for their actions, and not rely on a faulty RPOS system to hide their identity.
So yes, I agree that having the announced to you is less RP than no local list at all. But as long as we have the local listing, and others can find us by being half a zone away, then I think it would make sense that we know who killed us.
And for the 10th time, I am cool with snipers being omitted or whatever. I didnt outline some steadfast ruleset that couldnt be altered.
Originally posted by VetteroX
BTW I wanna say sniping in this game is lamely done. In real life if im snipied... and live.. I KNOW im being sniped...
Of course in real life one shot through the head would suffice, failing that your victim isn't going to be dancing around like a blue ass fly the second they get hit trying to find you and avoid shots.
I think your only complaining is because it is something you can't handle (your good toe to toe or ganking but not when you don't realise your being attacked).
Originally posted by VetteroX
Yes, show who killed you. I want people to know I killed them and I want them to come after me. If you kill someone nd dont want them to know who did it your a coward.... you can still hid e and snipe... it doesnt help them find you.
Vet just because a person doesnt want the kill message doesnt mean they are cowards. PErsonally if I kill some one before they realize its me, I ususally say something in local before they spawn. (I try hard not to 'sex' cause that always pisses me off haha).
Strych you were probably being sarcastic but that only name listing idea would be friggin awesome. Can you imagine going into a battle and having to know the names and reputations of your enemy? Having to know which people were on your side?Oh man that would kick ass. Obviously the entire faction symp/soul light system would need to be revamped. Thats probably a little too much RP for people though. :p And I like my clan tag any way.
I've been killed from guys that state "you killed my alt the other day" since I play that game, even with chars that can't use a weapon, on servers where I only have then one helpless char o_O
Originally posted by Jest
Strych you were probably being sarcastic but that only name listing idea would be friggin awesome. Can you imagine going into a battle and having to know the names and reputations of your enemy? Having to know which people were on your side?Oh man that would kick ass. Obviously the entire faction symp/soul light system would need to be revamped. Thats probably a little too much RP for people though. :p And I like my clan tag any way. I wasnt being sarcastic... just maybe trying to call your bluff? :)
Seriously, its crazy that someone can walk up outside of the bunker, and see via local who is inside. If you think that death messages make no sense, then SURELY that makes sense.
And you want RP? Then names only = reputation must be known and remembered. No more simple red= dead.
You are a BD and you wanna kill enemies? Well known enemies (i.e. people you know are your enemy) you can see, identify by name, and kill. People unknown to you would require you to somehow figure out who they are. Onoz! RP!
I would love for those changes to be made.
Heck, even having clan tags remain would be a concession to make. Think about it. Now, if you are unclanned a killer would have to get to know who you are. If you are clanned, then obviously you are willing to make a statement about your dedication to a faction/clan.
So have the clan names show- but still no factional indicator. Then at least runners would haveto become familiar with clans and alliances and factions... more RP.
Bring it.
I think it would be cool on the person who dies side for it to say who killed them. But somtimes when I kill people I dont want to them to know who it was. Because they will DM you pissed off, say bullshit your kos now, or call a shit load of people to come after you.
They should have to look and see my name or somthing before dieing rather then freaking out and trying to run for cover rather then see who it is attacking to take revenge later.
All im saying is we should have the right to make it out clean/unknown when killing and the prey should have the right to see who did it if they look at the names before they die.
(whitch is how it is now) :angel:
if they can keep track of who did damage to whom for SL issues ------ then they can dang well let me know who did me damage when I get ganked from behind
I dunno if you are trying to say the extreme to try and make me double think what I said, but Im serious, I would love those changes you suggested. Geez that would be so awesome. No local listing, no faction mentioned, and I think being red would have to be made viable. There you go. Pwnage.
Originally posted by Jest
I dunno if you are trying to say the extreme to try and make me double think what I said, but Im serious, I would love those changes you suggested. Geez that would be so awesome. No local listing, no faction mentioned, and I think being red would have to be made viable. There you go. Pwnage. LOL. No, I am all for it too.
yes. Yes. YES!
This would be a welcome addition to the game, but ONLY if the person who nails you is in local range. This would still leave sniping open to "anonymous" kills.
And to all people who are saying no because if the person's not skilled enough to know who's blowing them away, they shouldn't know, what about the fact that a lot of newbies go down in less than 2 bursts from a CS? If you're getting pounded on by a particurally tough mob, you're going to be paying more attention to that than who's in your local list (if they even show up, due to shitty refresh times and wierd-assed blind spots).
Not all newbies know about the fact that a lot of people simply go for the "red=dead" deal.
Hell, maybe even make this an "option", able to be turned off, that way those of you who don't want it, don't have to use it.
--Stryfe
Jesterthegreat
17-02-04, 20:57
no.
you should have to use awareness to see who killed you :p
if you cant look around you deserve to die. simple.
why should assassinating people become impossible?
Psycho_Soldier
17-02-04, 20:58
Didn't bother reading the whole thread but I think this would be a great idea. Also its often that someone is killed by more than 1 person so it should also say everyone who did the damage. Anyone is against this idea are cowards and are afraid that the person will come back looking for revenge. Also the message should appear once you are rezzed or GR. I have been killed often when I fatal and I would like to know who killed me when I come back.
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
no.
you should have to use awareness to see who killed you :p
if you cant look around you deserve to die. simple.
why should assassinating people become impossible?
Just because they know your name makes it impossible?
Jesterthegreat
17-02-04, 21:01
assassination is about killing someone without leaving a trace.
its not about it saying "you were killed by Jester"
I really like the idea, but some of the sniping issues I agree with as well......
So, Droms !
Also it should show in your log when you killed someone too.
Richard Blade
17-02-04, 21:35
In local list = "killed by xxxxx"
Not in local list = "too bad so sad you have no clue who killed you"
I like that a lot.
Not knowing who killed me because I was in synchro, or in a hack just pisses me off. Knowing who killed me makes them accountable for such an easy kill. We all know that Reeza and his copbots won't do anything about it.
Getting killed by a sniper, makes me scan the horizon more.
I was killed three times by a PE in the H.A.T.E clan before I found out who was doing it. But, I think that was mainly something to do with a runspeed *exploit*issue, and the rpos being slow to update. Not the "being killed" part, but the not knowing.
After I found out, I actually tried to hunt him down on one of his bunker runs. Got my ass kicked. :D
I'm a sniper - I disagree.
Originally posted by Richard Blade
In local list = "killed by xxxxx"
Not in local list = "too bad so sad you have no clue who killed you"
Yes Yes Yes - as a sniper I'd be happy with that.
Why does the message have to be displayed in chat? Why not add it to the dogtag so there is some incentive for the killer to pick it up if he/she doesn't want the victim to know who killed them? As for snipers, only list the killers name if they were in the local list.
it's only fair I guess... and also a message "For killing %$xy..."
Originally posted by Strych9
And drop the "gritty cyberpunk universe" line. Neocron is far from that.
Precisely, it is supposed to be a gritty cyberpunk future, yet since a hell-load of nerfs, wimpy rules and such have been introduced it has lost it's edge.
When was the last time you really feared a clan name? I am still extremely wary of Crackheads, just because "back in the day" they were hard ass mofos that killed everything.
But there is nothing like that now, because nobody wants to be heavily gimped (such as dropping five items, no safe slot, etc) and have nothing to gain (safe slot stops the best drops, hackable belts make it too much of a risk to actually get the item of your target).
Steve
Prodigious
17-02-04, 23:16
dont know if someone has said this but i reckon if you are killed within the city walls it should tell you but outside the city walls, e.g. middle of a warzone it shouldnt tell you.
in other words, if you get rogerd up the arse in aggy pit at P1 it should tell you, but if you get roger roger'd at CRP then tough shit.
Mighty Max
17-02-04, 23:20
Whats the prob with ppl knowing your name?
Even by a Sniper, they still cant kill you since they are already dead :p
I'd really like it esp. when i'd get killed (im yet LEd) while hacking a WB with noone in list. In the 20 secs someone come up, kill you and you have no glue ... Seen that done often.
Our disgust at this idea is not that "1337 PKers" will be found out, it is that "1337 PKers" won't give a shit if you know it was them or not, but those who stealth around (not in the tool sense, in the sneaky sneaky sense) popping off shots and taking out targets will lose their role.
Score based games like CS, DoD and UT2K3 to name but a few all have these messages because they are GAMES. Neocron is a ROLE-PLAYING game. This means a lot more thought has to go into player interaction than "omg, message says I have to DM you", or "you killed me, there's no denying it".
Killed by messages are so that you can acclaim "Huzzah, I pwned you again" in deathmatch games. In games like Neocron if you want "Huzzah" you have the time to say "Huzzah". But not everyone wants to be known.
Why is it that your world is the "right" world, and anyone who opposes it is a "PKer"? Had it occurred to you that the fact that something extraordinary and different might happen, or not knowing our attacker because we weren't skilled enough to notice them in time, is how some of us get our kicks out of this game?
All of this thread, just because you got killed on an off-chance. By someone who was probably lying, and using it as an excuse to PK you. Live with it, random stuff happens. It has already come quite far that barely anything extraordinary, random or risky happens now, because of the many systems implemented to stop it.
Queue List:
Random PKs - annoying, yet added to the thrill of watching your back
Dropping your weapon in slot one - Now you have no chance of losing it unless you have negative soullight. And even then, why should some have the quickslot but those who don't want it not?
Finding people in the wastelands - with the "easy-camp" levelling spots such as aggie cellars the treadmill is no longer exciting... Within a few hours without even leaving NC a player can be half capped.
Dying, and knowing that your item you dropped has probably gone.
The above point made dying worth worrying about, instead of now which means most people just launch themselves repeatedly at the enemy. And makes ganking more prominent because they have no fear of a bigger set of characters smooshing them.
The time where nobody gave a shit about rare parts and rare hunting, because they didn't exist, and instead it was about the quality of your weapon, your setup and the way you modified the weapon. Nowadays all that matters is that you have a lot of cash, and a lot of friends.
I'm sure there are more, but I just can't remember them because it has been so long.
Steve
how about making it so that u can set whether or not u want ur name to me listed when u kill people? of even a prerecorded msg... like:
me kills someone
dead person sees in chatbox: "You just got owned by <my name here>, a Droner Constructor Spy! TAKE IT!"
would be fun :D
Absolute genius mDares, however that's almost like:
Typing this once in the entire time you have NC installed:
"+sms d /direct You were just killed by mDares! Have a nice day :)"
Then typing this after a kill:
"+direct <victimname>"
Then pressing alt-s, d :rolleyes:
Steve
Originally posted by Mingerroo
Our disgust at this idea is not that "1337 PKers" will be found out, it is that "1337 PKers" won't give a shit if you know it was them or not, but those who stealth around (not in the tool sense, in the sneaky sneaky sense) popping off shots and taking out targets will lose their role.Ming, did you even read all the suggestions? A lot of them were of the opinion that if the killer was not in the local list, nothing would show. I mean, come on, it's kinda hard to be stealthy when sticking a Lib up someone's arse and pulling the trigger repeatedly.
Here's another suggestion: make it so that A) if you're not in the local list, you don't get fingered, and B) if you have a silencer installed and active and proceed to blow someone away, you don't get fingered even if you're in the local list.
It would definately add an interesting twist, to say the least.
--Stryfe
No I really did read all of the suggestions. But why bother? All these provisos on whether or not you show has narrowed it down to those without silencers who are in your local list. If they are going to do that just watch your back and your local list! Why have such a limited feature? And besides, what if somebody is afk and you have a CS? Just because they were stupid enough to go afk in a warzone and are an enemy faction is no reason for them to be allowed your name in bold letters. If they were AT their computer they would see you in local, or see you shooting at them and look directly at you.
The whole idea is just naff in my opinion. So much work over something that only really benefits the lazy and the afk, and even then, the bonus is so small it isn't worth the work they put into it.
Steve
Actually :
Screw the "killed by" message.. just fix local.
:: Me out hunting, all alone, not bothering anyone but the fire mobs, almost dead after taking down a group of the beasts.. and then a tank drives up, shoots me in back..
Not at any time during the drive by or anything, was there a name on local.
Originally posted by Mighty Max
Whats the prob with ppl knowing your name?
FFS THIS GAME ALREADY LACKS REALISM WHY EVEN MORE OF THAT SHOOTER BULLSHIT! :D
I insist on a "DRAGONFLY IS ON A KILLING SPREE!" message then when I kill multiple people within ten seconds. o_O
I want to hear "M-M-M-MONSTER KILL!" when someone ganks 3+ people within a time limit. Server side. So people can go "woah!"
It's a bad idea in the end. There is quite a bit of fun trying to find out who ganked you. Alot of people as soon as they die, run straight to a higher alt, and go back out there, (which most decent PKers anticipate anyway) and will get the message.
It's only if you are AFK, Hacking or piss off a sniper, where you'll never know.
The game isn't broke in this sense, so why fix it? How about fixing the FREs, lag, improving missions, and working on non-pvp things, instead of yet another PVP orientated fix?
Mingeroo, stop trying to portray this as some little fetish of mine. Look at the voting. Almost 2/3 of the people electing to vote like the idea. Clearly this isnt just me that thinks this would work okay.
And everyone drop the "this will make Neocron just like a normal FPS" analysis because its flawed. Just because your RPOS tells you who did the most damage to you in your death if they were in local, that DOESNT mean that suddenly we will be playing UT or anything.
Not everyone has to like this idea, and its clear not everyone does. Its also clear a lot of people do.
And Alice, just because I start a poll like this it doesnt mean that this should be implemented before lag and crash fixes. :rolleyes:
make the "you been shot by" message only appear if you have constructed ammo. that way the bullet certainly have your name on it :)
DestructionUK
18-02-04, 15:10
yes but have it optional on both sides
tag kills yes or no (if you kill somone do you want to be listed)
show killer yes or no (show who kills you)
Originally posted by Strych9
Mingeroo, stop trying to portray this as some little fetish of mine. Look at the voting. Almost 2/3 of the people electing to vote like the idea. Clearly this isnt just me that thinks this would work okay.
And everyone drop the "this will make Neocron just like a normal FPS" analysis because its flawed. Just because your RPOS tells you who did the most damage to you in your death if they were in local, that DOESNT mean that suddenly we will be playing UT or anything.
Not everyone has to like this idea, and its clear not everyone does. Its also clear a lot of people do.
And Alice, just because I start a poll like this it doesnt mean that this should be implemented before lag and crash fixes. :rolleyes:
My problem is with the fact that this topic has arisen time and time again before, even then there WAS a message in beta 3. Nobody liked it then, and in all the previous threads it got voted down. Just because a poll on the forum suggests that the majority of people want the message, doesn't mean that in practice it works, or that all the people that play the game want it in.
I am not trying to portray this as a fetish of yours, I am pointing out that there is no reason for it to work when it is the exact same idea that didn't work in Beta 3.
Originally posted by DestructionUK
yes but have it optional on both sides
tag kills yes or no (if you kill somone do you want to be listed)
show killer yes or no (show who kills you)
And the problem with this is that even if people don't want to have it, if some people have access to it everyone will feel forced to use it to keep on the same competitive level, much like a good portion of us dislike rare weapons, but have no choice but to use them (for certain classes any way) so we can still compete.
Steve
Originally posted by Mingerroo
My problem is with the fact that this topic has arisen time and time again before, even then there WAS a message in beta 3. Nobody liked it then, and in all the previous threads it got voted down. Just because a poll on the forum suggests that the majority of people want the message, doesn't mean that in practice it works, or that all the people that play the game want it in.
I am not trying to portray this as a fetish of yours, I am pointing out that there is no reason for it to work when it is the exact same idea that didn't work in Beta 3.Surely you can appreciate the fact that this game is MUCH different than it was in Beta 3. I wasnt in beta 3 but I was in Beta 4, and it sure the hell is a LOT different now.
And there is a lot of stuff in Beta 4 that would NOT work now, same with Beta 3.
Saying "It didnt work in Beta 3" will only get you so far before you have to supply reasons as to why it wont work now regardless of what happened years ago.
Now people have given reasons why they dont like it, and thats fine. Again, the purpose was to get people's opinions. And right NOW, at least, almost 2/3 of the people voting like it.
And the problem with this is that even if people don't want to have it, if some people have access to it everyone will feel forced to use it to keep on the same competitive level, much like a good portion of us dislike rare weapons, but have no choice but to use them (for certain classes any way) so we can still compete.But if this is an option, I REALLY dont see what this has to do with competition. My suggestion, or any of the alterations to it that people have suggested, in no way allows you to kill someone quicker than they can kill you.
But either EVERYONE would have the same "access" to it, or it would be optional like DestructionUK mentioned, so either way the playing field is level however you look at it.
But regardless, this isnt that big of a deal. Its obviously not some huge bug or exploit that demands KK attention right now. I was just getting the views of others. And if this topic has come up before and voted down every time... then maybe the fact that it hasnt been voted down this time means that something has changed....???
I understand where you are coming from, and I realise that this isn't Beta 3/4. It has just become grossly apparent to me that every other "Idea" thread tends to be a regurgitation of a previously rejected system, often one such as this; that is a request for a game feature to be added that takes away a little effort, a little time consumption.
Because there are so many of these ideas already implemented, such as it now being incredibly hard to lose an item of any real worth unless due to a bug (one of my largest annoyances), the game now lacks fun for many people once you cap. Before, you could cap and then run around losing things in battles and then regaining them through hard work. But now you have no chance of losing it (or at least only a tiny chance) there is no risk, no reason, and I find myself rerolling and other capped characters whining about how bored they are.
So my detest at this thread is not the content, but the principle, and all be it you may have 2/3 people saying yes, but in my opinion we need to tear out a lot of the intended-time-savers-come-boredom-factors before we add any more possible time savers.
Steve
Originally posted by Mingerroo
My problem is with the fact that this topic has arisen time and time again before, even then there WAS a message in beta 3. Nobody liked it then, and in all the previous threads it got voted down. Just because a poll on the forum suggests that the majority of people want the message, doesn't mean that in practice it works, or that all the people that play the game want it in.Surely you know that peoples opinions change over time. What may not have been popular in Beta 3/4 may be immensly popular now *simply because* A) people's opinions change over time, like I've stated, and B) because there are a lot of players around that were not in any of the Betas.
It's been said in this thread that it could be a very viable option to make it an option, meaning you can simply turn it off and rely on only your wits (and the buggy local list) to find out who killed you.
--Stryfe
As far as I can see StryfeX, this game has been taken over by a different generation of Neocronians, and all those who shared my views and my loves for the game are gone :(
With every change I dislike the game more, and more of my friends leave, and more newbs join and more threads like this are made and accepted.
I'm holding on tight, my free account allows me to pop in whenever I please, I just I hope that my personal incarnation of Neptune is created, to bring back the good times :)
Steve
Clownst0pper
18-02-04, 22:31
Carniflex's idea is the shit.
Fuck this thread, 5 stars to him :angel:
i want my tank to be able to run around saying shit like Ownage and iam the alpha and omega shit like that as well while were at it
Clownst0pper
18-02-04, 22:35
i want my tank to be able to run around saying shit like Ownage and iam the alpha and omaga shit like that as well while were at it
Dont you anyway? :lol:
I do :cool:
No, unless "You were killed by <killer_name>" is only send to the one that was killed.
Reason, server bandwidth. Project Entropia did this after i (and possibly others) suggested this (Idea from playing Freelancer), it did bogg down servers another bit makeing the game even more unplayable... :\
Originally posted by ichinin
No, unless "You were killed by <killer_name>" is only send to the one that was killed.
Reason, server bandwidth. Project Entropia did this after i (and possibly others) suggested this (Idea from playing Freelancer), it did bogg down servers another bit makeing the game even more unplayable... :\ I think that's what most of us who support the idea want. No zone-wide message stoking the killer's ego or whatnot. Just a simple system message to said victim about who killed him/her. It would also add a little more incentive to actually respawn rather than just lay on the ground waiting for a PPU mate to come rez you.
--Stryfe
Nightbrother
20-02-04, 11:19
I dont like this idea.
If you don't spot the guy killing you (i.e. have time to move the cursor to him, so you can see his name), then it does not make sense that you should be magically be told his name. Especially not for snipers. Only way to see who kills/shoots you, is to see the name by moving your cursor over him, or if he speaks, thus revealing his identity. If you dont manege to do that, tough luck. Go back and see if you can spot him next time.
I like the fact that people can hide in the game if they want to, and someone who is very good at hiding while shooting may bring down many people before being spotted/recognized.
Thats my opinion.
Another thing is: If I wanted to snipe (I dont have a spy atm, so I cant, anyway...) three people, and then afterwards go up to them and lie by telling them that I was just pk'ed also by a sniper, and that I saw another spy with a rifle run north, then this wouldn't be possible, cause people will not think in meta-game terms. If this was allowed, many chances for RP would be ruined, I think.
I think the least a player deserves after being killed is to know who it was.
Not like it'll reveal that person's position or anything.
Originally posted by Nightbrother
I dont like this idea.
If you don't spot the guy killing you (i.e. have time to move the cursor to him, so you can see his name), then it does not make sense that you should be magically be told his name. Especially not for snipers. Only way to see who kills/shoots you, is to see the name by moving your cursor over him, or if he speaks, thus revealing his identity. If you dont manege to do that, tough luck. Go back and see if you can spot him next time.
I like the fact that people can hide in the game if they want to, and someone who is very good at hiding while shooting may bring down many people before being spotted/recognized.
Thats my opinion.
Another thing is: If I wanted to snipe (I dont have a spy atm, so I cant, anyway...) three people, and then afterwards go up to them and lie by telling them that I was just pk'ed also by a sniper, and that I saw another spy with a rifle run north, then this wouldn't be possible, cause people will not think in meta-game terms. If this was allowed, many chances for RP would be ruined, I think.Eh? o_O Did you read the whole discussion? There are many ideas in there about having it only activate for people who are on your local list who blow you away. That would pretty much exclude a normal sniper.
--Stryfe
Nightbrother
20-02-04, 11:41
Originally posted by StryfeX
Eh? o_O Did you read the whole discussion? There are many ideas in there about having it only activate for people who are on your local list who blow you away. That would pretty much exclude a normal sniper.
--Stryfe
Yup, I did read the whole thread (bad manners not to do so, eh? :)), and I dont think it blows what I wrote away at all. Even if someone is in local list, then you have a chance to see the name there. If you don't, then you're just too slow. And I'm slow, and I dont mind. It would make very much sense that if you didn't get a good look at the person who killed you, (for all sorts of reasons, you're stressed out because of combat, is one) then you don't know. I don't see at all why that has to change.
By all means implement the change that allows people to let those they killed, know who did the killing. Let that be a switch for people who want that, even snipers if they want.
I also like the constructed ammo thing, but hmmm.... why would you know who killed you just because the ammo was constructed by a player. Then you would need an option in inscribe your name on the bullets you make.
Originally posted by Nightbrother
then it does not make sense that you should be magically be told his name.Doesnt make sense? Yet it makes sense you have a list of names in local of people you cannot even see? :rolleyes:
And just about everyone agreed to remove this for snipers, so I am not sure why you are using that as some sort of argument. Plus I never advocated broadcasting it via the zone channel or anything silly like that. Just letting the target know who killed them, and having it be an optional switch.
It just seems to some of us like a waste of tiime, and that more than likely one of the following will happen:
Situation A> Nobody has it switched on, because if they kill someone they can just DM them, rather than risking accidentally alerting a target they wanted to be hidden from.
Situation B> People get POd with the way that they have to do NOTHING in the game except click stuff. Because this is a feature that is not currently affected by in-game numbers, but by the player's actual skill.
Steve
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