View Full Version : Research Skill
Lana DarkWolf
17-02-04, 11:15
I was just wondering, does anyone know what skill i need in research to guarantee that E rares wont blow?.
Im currently lomming my PPU down to 0 psi use.........& going tradeskiller since i dont use him anymore :(
Now i also know that INT plays a part in skill too, but since im noobish to researching, anyone have any ideas? :D
Mighty Max
17-02-04, 11:16
There is no guarantee
Lana DarkWolf
17-02-04, 11:19
Seriously? damn :(
So even if i get to over 200 in research they can still blow?
Originally posted by Lana DarkWolf
Seriously? damn :(
So even if i get to over 200 in research they can still blow?
Skill= TL*2 is nearly a guarantee
Original monk
17-02-04, 11:23
when ya have 110 int and 220 res there is a veeery small chance you blow em :P
but its still possible to wreck a lowtechpart then o.O so you wont have a 100% guarantee :)
Lana DarkWolf
17-02-04, 11:29
Ive kinda gimped my monks hard earned INT lvls lomming now.
Someone please remind me never to lom int again :p
Thanks for info guys, hopefully should be finally up & running tonight - no more hunting around p1 & p2 for hours for a free researcher yay! \o/
Double the TL = Guarentee. So, if you have 220 Research then you won't even fail on an E tech. It's documented somewhere, and you can try it yourself if you have doubts.
Mighty Max
17-02-04, 12:45
Dajuna, that is not right. You can even fail at more then double Research Skill.
Tho its not likely.
Else i would never crack up L's (TL70 and Ress Skill above 150 buffed [on a PE] ) but i do from time to time...
i know ppl with 255 research and break shit nothing guarnteed, I mean come on this is Neocron
MjukisDjur
17-02-04, 13:20
Originally posted by Hecktor
Skill= TL*2 is nearly a guarantee
Dude, I broke a T part at 210 res skill...
Originally posted by Hecktor
Skill= TL*2 is nearly a guarantee
Originally posted by MjukisDjur
Dude, I broke a T part at 210 res skill...
He said nearly not 100% guarantee :p
Ideally a person wouldn't break parts, or have a BP error after you cap your research skill.
:p
Research is very borked at the moment, and if you start a researcher, just keep that in mind... Else you'll go mad.
Originally posted by MjukisDjur
Dude, I broke a T part at 210 res skill...
What's you base research skill? Were you at a lab?
You can fail to research E part even with research 250-260 at rate near 1 from 15 ...
Originally posted by Marx
What's you base research skill? Were you at a lab? That really doesnt matter. The game doesnt distinguish what attributes to your skills. It just takes the final skill number (i.e. for research) and does whatever it does with it.
Now maybe we could speculate that the bonus from a lab shows up and doesnt register, and that there is a bug in the system...
With 212 natural skill, I have better chances at non-failures than I did wth 230 skill from a lab.
BORKED!
Originally posted by Marx
With 212 natural skill, I have better chances at non-failures than I did wth 230 skill from a lab.
BORKED! Interesting. Please share the numbers from your trials.
Originally posted by Strych9
Interesting. Please share the numbers from your trials.
20 e parts, failed twice with 212 skill.
20 e parts, failed 9 times with 230 skill from the OP
Lana DarkWolf
17-02-04, 17:59
all sounds a little screwy to me 8|
so does that mean that basically atm its pointless using an OP for bonus's? or does research cap after a certain lvl or something - meaning you get the same % chance of breaks with 200 res & with say 230?
Or of course did the test just go horribly wrong........:rolleyes:
I think that bonuses affect research only to a certain extent, and doesn't factor into the skill properly.
That would explain why Mjurk blow's T's with 210 res skill.
And as I said, research is screwy, and for the most part it always has been.
Frankly, a selection of 20 parts at either location isnt enough to deduce anything about it.
Independent of the comparison, the failure rate is disturbing given the skill level.
Its guaranteed for construction, I dont see why it isnt for research as well.
Originally posted by Strych9
Frankly, a selection of 20 parts at either location isnt enough to deduce anything about it.
Independent of the comparison, the failure rate is disturbing given the skill level.
Its guaranteed for construction, I dont see why it isnt for research as well.
The difference was my research base skill.
180 + OP
212 from imps.
To be honest, I have yet to EVER break a part since I got my hawkins. I fail on e parts, but never a break-error.
Meanwhile I would break parts left and right even with the OP.
Well then you need to isolate the conditions and only have one variable.
Do a similar test if possible, but with only ONE thing different- same exact imp setup, just have one trial in an apt and the other at an op. Then we can see if the op itself matters (although we would still need a huge test sample to try and draw realistic conclusions).
The only official word I have seen from KK say 2xTL = no fail.
I have done over 1000 Es on my resser since he passed 220RES and have lost and failed none of them so I don't know what people are doing to lose parts at that level.
The only thing that I noticed shortly before I got to 220 was that I would fail (but not lose) Ts if I walked around too much while doing them even though I was over 2xTL.
I've only ever used spies for RES so I have no idea if something about monks or PEs increases the risks.
Originally posted by Lana DarkWolf
I was just wondering, does anyone know what skill i need in research to guarantee that E rares wont blow?.
Im currently lomming my PPU down to 0 psi use.........& going tradeskiller since i dont use him anymore :(
Now i also know that INT plays a part in skill too, but since im noobish to researching, anyone have any ideas? :D PPUs are seriously kick ass tradeskillers. My PPU does 150 research, 110 barter, 37 drive, and will do implant 115 and repair 70 when I cap dex and int. :p Plus he is still WAY more effective than the equivalent tradeskill spy would be. I can use him for hunting with the clan and even op wars, though Im definitely not as good as a pure combat PPU.
Good choice. :p I suggest not going pure research though its not worth it. Pick up something else with it.
Originally posted by Jest
PPUs are seriously kick ass tradeskillers. My PPU does 150 research, 110 barter, 37 drive, and will do implant 115 and repair 70 when I cap dex and int. :p Plus he is still WAY more effective than the equivalent tradeskill spy would be. I can use him for hunting with the clan and even op wars, though Im definitely not as good as a pure combat PPU.
Good choice. :p I suggest not going pure research though its not worth it. Pick up something else with it. I had fun with my PPU as a pure ppu tradeskiller... but that was back before the hybrid nerfs. Arent PPUs more reliant on PSU now such that you cant really afford to have all of your Int in tradeskills?
Ask Carinth about that, Strych9 ... he lommed back to pure PSU because it is so important (too lazy to look for his reply about this).
Originally posted by Strych9
I had fun with my PPU as a pure ppu tradeskiller... but that was back before the hybrid nerfs. Arent PPUs more reliant on PSU now such that you cant really afford to have all of your Int in tradeskills? It only gimps RoF and psi pool. My RoF is pretty gimp thats the main problem. My Psi pool is like 217 which sucks, but its not that bad really, I can get around it. If your PPU is a frequent PvPer then obviously pure skiller is bad, but for any one who has ever fought my PPU in battle knows I am still hella hard to kill, probably even better than a good number of non tradeskiller PPUs. If you are going to have a PPU, dont do pure tradeskill. If you are going to have a pure tradskill spy, make a PPU instead. :p (Except for constructing).
Whitestuff
17-02-04, 19:26
It isn't just your Research skill, its your INT lvl as well. I have 179 ressearch skill (unbuffed) and 90 something INT and I hardly ever blow E rares (if I do, they are FL parts cause they are the hardest to research).
Now the balls hard ones to do are rare drone BPs. I fail at those more than 50% of the time. I think you have to have around 244 resser skill to not fail at those with capped INT. (by not fail I mean not fail 99 out of 100 times, there are always flukes/stupid/bugs when it comes to researching)
ghandisfury
17-02-04, 19:36
To guarentee no breaks. Double TL item researched+100int.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
To guarentee no breaks. Double TL item researched+100int. Well all we need is one example contrary to this to prove it not true.
Are you saying natural 100 Int, or just 100 Int overall?
This theory we can easily put to the test I would think.
my spy has 194 research and im at like 116 or so int. at a lab that i get partial access(+25) im at 219 ress and i dont ever break my parts. When u are researching your e parts do some thing else in between them say like a l or a t or a tl 70-90 bp of something and you will decrease your chances of failing your e parts and you will gain more exp that way too.
Originally posted by Strych9
Well all we need is one example contrary to this to prove it not true.
Are you saying natural 100 Int, or just 100 Int overall?
This theory we can easily put to the test I would think.
If it's 100 INT inc. imps then I'm there and that would fit my experience.
Chuck a CST boost 3 on that and rares never fail:
http://indifference.homeip.net/pureresearch.jpg
Hell's Grannie
17-02-04, 20:59
Huh ? I'm completely, utterly, flat out baffled. How do you reach such a high int level with all your other main skills completely untrained/unlevelled ?
Yeah, I know I'm a noob ...
Originally posted by Hell's Grannie
Huh ? I'm completely, utterly, flat out baffled. How do you reach such a high int level with all your other main skills completely untrained/unlevelled ?
Yeah, I know I'm a noob ...
He's a researcher, he researches. He researches a lot.
ghandisfury
17-02-04, 21:16
Originally posted by Strych9
Well all we need is one example contrary to this to prove it not true.
Are you saying natural 100 Int, or just 100 Int overall?
This theory we can easily put to the test I would think.
It's 100 INT overall. Put it to the test....tell me what you come up with.
I have INT 112 with +28 from imps and Res 187 with a +50 from imps. I've broken 4 parts out of about 400. 2 at an Op (getting +25 bonus) and 2 at my apartment. I don't know what type of part they were.
I'm prolly the most unlucky researcher ever : ) Currently my alt spy resser has 121int and 201res without lab. It's been a long time since she's had access to a lab, but when she was last there her skill was around 240 i believe. I still destroyed e's once in a while, which was especialy annoying since they'd be MC5 E's : p
Way back when my ppu was a researcher, he had similar problems. At the time I was a member of a researcher's club on pluto, all spies except me. While going over the agreed on fee's, we discussed substance usage and thus failures. I realized that I spend a lot more on substance then any of the spies, cause I fail more often. My int was 100, and my skill was 190 or so, on par with the spies. I attributed it to a secret anti monk tradeskiller bug or feature.
In regards to psu, it's insanely important, but yes mostly for pvp. If you ever have over 200 psu and then lom down, to even 180, you'll feel like you're parashocked : ) Typicly a ppu learns how to time herself, wether thats how long buffs last or how long it takes to cast a spell. If you change your psu, it slows your casting down, and really messes with your timing. Not that you can't relearn, it's just painful for a while. I lomed some psu for 90 hack, brough me down to 180 or so, like 189 I think. For the week I was consistantly dieing multiple times a day to SS in pepper park. I was looking over everythin trying to figure out why i'm doing so bad, even thought maybe I've lost it as a ppu. Then I looked at int and noticed the 90 hack. Lom'd it back to psu, 207 i believe i was. And instantly I'm back to being a super ppu.
Since I've given up pvp, I'm now down to 111 psu, and its really painful : ) But I don't do anythin demanding, so theres no need for speed.
ZoneVortex
18-02-04, 05:39
^
||
Crysta = bestest researcher evar!1
Alright, this was boring so heads up.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 106 int 212 res: 4 failures, non-critical
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 101 int 197 res: 16 failures, 4 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 96 int, 187 res: 27 failures, 13 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 66 int (kami chip), 187 res: 49 failures, 31 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 96 int, 187+50 (237) from an OP, 22 failures, 1 critical.
Jeez that was boring as hell.
232 ress skill and wasted 2 mc5 parts in a row... uber fun but i must have been bugged then
Originally posted by Marx
Alright, this was boring so heads up.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 106 int 212 res: 4 failures, non-critical
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 101 int 197 res: 16 failures, 4 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 96 int, 187 res: 27 failures, 13 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 66 int (kami chip), 187 res: 49 failures, 31 critical.
100 punisher drones done with a spy, 96 int, 187+50 (237) from an OP, 22 failures, 1 critical.
Jeez that was boring as hell. Thanks Marx, and I have no DOUBT that was boring as hell.
Okay, lets look at the numbers.
First, look at the two times you have 96 Int. One with 187 res, one with 237 res. There is a noticeable difference. Small drop in failures, huge drop in criticals.
Second, look at the two times you have 187 res. Its clear that the Int plays a huge role in your success. Huge.
Clearly, research is a skill that you must totally cap to have any success at in terms of failures and losses.
Great work. This thread needs to be saved.
Punisher being TL122 we really need a run at INT>100 and CST>244.
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