View Full Version : Another Account 2 Hacked
Rjn and Richkid of N.C.F hacked now.. changed his pass 2 days ago..
Clan apt ripped of, clan cash stolen..
what next?
trigger hurt
16-02-04, 15:52
betcha can't blame this one on rizzy, can ya kk?
yeah 3 in the last 2 days.. 2 in our clan one not..
may i ask this..
WHO IS FUCKIN SAFE..
The only way I can see that peeps do this is if they share an account at some point.
I change all my passwords on a weekly basis. I'm sure there are other ways - just wouldn't know how!
/cancels his 2 accounts and tells KK to go fuck them selves.
oh crap!
I have a rare sharing app with rjn on saturn :(
Original monk
16-02-04, 15:56
this makes me mad :mad:
i get paranoia of this shitz :(
its fuckin bullshit.. he changed his pass to days ago..
HOW MANY MORE HACKS ARE YOU GONNA LET HAPPEN KK?:mad:
Originally posted by Ascention
its fuckin bullshit.. he changed his pass to days ago..
HOW MANY MORE HACKS ARE YOU GONNA LET HAPPEN KK?:mad:
How is it KK's fault when you know nothing of how it was hacked ?
maybe its because he did change it?
Originally posted by GT_Rince
How is it KK's fault when you know nothing of how it was hacked ?
I dont know.. but are they gonna give a roleback..?
he has given his account pass to NO ONE, and changed his PASSWORD 2 days ago...
they normally dont give rollbacks i think unless the char is deleted
are they gonna give us back our confidence that this won't happen to anyone else?
...i think not.
Originally posted by Lathuc
they normally dont give rollbacks i think unless the char is deleted
well thats bullshit on there part.. if 4 accounts have been hacked in the last week then there is something wrong..
well a DarK member also got hacked, he lost his mc5's appts etc but however his runners werent rerolled
There was a rash of account hacks a few months back as well, rento, FN and a few others over the course of a few days.
All of them had their email addresses changed.
not to sound like a smart ass, but if this hacking bs would be in fact a KK fluke, wouldnt the hackers get their paws on other accounts? gm accounts or even dev accounts?
does anyone off any other server other than pluto have gotten their accounts hacked???
theres been too many accounts being hacked for people to have accidently "leaked" their passwords out...
The first thing one should do is make sure you NEVER use an email service/address like hotmail/msn etc. They can or will be hacked sooner or later.
Borrow a friends address if you don't have a work address or something more secure yourself.
Don't know if this is the case here, but just as a general heads up.
question:
how could someone steal someones clan apt / apt shit... unless they got a keylogger on their system.. how can the hacker know the passwords to the apt's.
Originally posted by Tupac
well a DarK member also got hacked, he lost his mc5's appts etc but however his runners werent rerolled
yeah hes included..
what email account did you sign up for the accounts with?
Originally posted by Shujin
question:
how could someone steal someones clan apt / apt shit... unless they got a keylogger on their system.. how can the hacker know the passwords to the apt's.
Generally, you store the keys in an always accessible place, like GG or main apt (if any appartment resets or bugs out in any other way).
when i said he wasnt rerolled i meant as in his runners werent u know literally rerolled by the hacker to some noob in MC5 with the name of omg u have been haxorized :p it was just his stuff was missing
OMG GOOD IDEA!!!, reroll the server 4 days back plzplzplzzplz
- I lost a 4 slot CS last night
lol god, always lookion the bright side of life... (theres a song there somewhere...)
well thts four accounts worth of money KK are losing.. also aload of People have canceled their accounts
Originally posted by phunqe
Generally, you store the keys in an always accessible place, like GG or main apt (if any appartment resets or bugs out in any other way). umm not me... i store all my shit in plaza 3 apts, in my primary apt i jus have n00b junk.
so let that be a lesson to u, dont be dumb, hide ur shit just incase.
thing is though shujin, you shouldn't have to "hide" your shit....
Originally posted by Shujin
umm not me... i store all my shit in plaza 3 apts, in my primary apt i jus have n00b junk.
so let that be a lesson to u, dont be dumb, hide ur shit just incase.
we shouldnt have to.. it can happen to anyone one.. if they can hack accounts im sure they can penertrate and find apt passes?
Originally posted by Tazo
not to sound like a smart ass, but if this hacking bs would be in fact a KK fluke, wouldnt the hackers get their paws on other accounts? gm accounts or even dev accounts?
Sounds like he had a keylogger installed and he actually revealed his password by changing it.
That or someone had acces to his E-Mail, since there's probably an automated "Your password was changed to..." E-Mail sent.
Originally posted by Ascention
we shouldnt have to.. it can happen to anyone one.. if they can hack accounts im sure they can penertrate and find apt passes? how the fuck can they. unless you keep a BP that u write all ur passes in, or the passes are all somethin like "Pwnage" or "Imtahleetness"
and the person who said u shouldnt have to, ur right, but the thing is, its very doubtful the person who hacked ur accounts got it from a KK vulnerablity, its probably something the victim did stupid, like have a easy ass password, use hotmail as a primary email address, or have a trojan / key logger on their system.
Originally posted by GT_Rince
The only way I can see that peeps do this is if they share an account at some point.
I change all my passwords on a weekly basis. I'm sure there are other ways - just wouldn't know how!
You mean apart from the big gaping security hole in Windows currently? (Unless of course he patched his machine in the last few days).
yeah but shujin, maybe happens to one or two people... but ive seen 4 accounts hacked in a week.
it KK responsibilty to stop hacking of account just like other RPg online. its that simple
Originally posted by Tazo
not to sound like a smart ass, but if this hacking bs would be in fact a KK fluke, wouldnt the hackers get their paws on other accounts? gm accounts or even dev accounts?
Yeah, notice how the only people who's accounts get hacked are either sharing it or have a stupidly easy password or login?
:rolleyes:
These aren't cases of hacking - these are cases of someone being pissed off at the other, or just not caring about them and swiping their shit.
A real hacker would do much more than pick on someone who's insignificant in the big picture.
Originally posted by Shujin
question:
how could someone steal someones clan apt / apt shit... unless they got a keylogger on their system.. how can the hacker know the passwords to the apt's.
Exactly.
Unless the person was stupid enough to waste gogo space on their keys.
Originally posted by Tazo
not to sound like a smart ass, but if this hacking bs would be in fact a KK fluke, wouldnt the hackers get their paws on other accounts? gm accounts or even dev accounts?
What's to tell you they haven't already?
Some don't always have to abuse the acc to the point where you notice....
Its not KKs responsibility to stop people from sharing theyre passwords, not using hotmail or whatever. If it was KKs fault youd think hackers would hack people a bit more high profile.
So many are jumping to blame KK for this. Im not going to say either way not enough data to make that jugement. But there are many sneaky ways to pull somthing of this nature. You think all thoes skill managers are produced by people with pure intentions, maybe maybe not. Maybe someone released some aiming hack on remote websites with a trojan in it. You just never know. And the guy would not tell anyone that he downloaded a cool aiming hack to be l33tne$$.
The point is unless your in the same pants with the guys getting hacked you dont know.
I just wish someone could give a brief of what these guys are up to.
http://hacker.geld-verdienen-partnerprogramme.com/index1.htm
This is just one example
they did nexx, remember polarity's spy? ub0r const...
Originally posted by Xiphias
they did nexx, remember polarity's spy? ub0r const...
there's no way you can tell me with a staight face that only one person knew that account password.
:rolleyes:
I fail to see how this is KK's fault. Firstly, clans usually get cleaned out by disgruntled clan members, not hackers. Secondly, there's at least one post on this thread where someone says they share accounts - shared accounts have a tendency to get shared just a little too much, leading to the app getting cleaned out by a sharer, not a hacker.
You know my thoughts on sharing, you've seen me comment about it when someone casually drops into the conversation that they do it. You also know not to use free email accounts during registration, especially the ones where all you have to do when you forget your password is answer a "cryptic" question like "Which country's national anthem begins with the words 'O Canada'?"
N
P.S. We never said that Rizzy ever hacked a Neocron account so you may as well just put that one to rest. :rolleyes:
so if i run a ripper and hack accounts then it ur fault not kk's for lack of security?
come on be real
Originally posted by Fez
it KK responsibilty to stop hacking of account just like other RPg online. its that simple
Its not as easy as that, KK have to know how the hacks are occuring, it could easily be a client side issue like a keylogger.
Originally posted by Fez
so if i run a ripper and hack accounts then it ur fault not kk's for lack of security?
come on be real
EXPLAIN TO ME HOW KK'S BEING HACKED?
Originally posted by Ascention
well thts four accounts worth of money KK are losing.. also aload of People have canceled their accounts
I have played this game now for more than 18 months and have a lot of friends and don't know anyone that has ever had their account hacked. I hear about it, but that is all. Sorry - but it has been seen in the past that user error has been to blame for some of them. Turns out peeps might be dumb enough to use usernames and passwords that are easy to guess.
An example? I wonder how many peeps use their apt password as their login password? Hell, I hear so many peeps saying "this is my apt and password" on buddy and general chat. Not exactly what I call safe. Or perhaps they have a child and peeps also know about this - for ease of use they may use their childs name as a passy. Seen that done also.
I ask the same question again - how is this KK's fault? You change your password on a secure server, so don't blame shit like that.
Kinda on this subject but about 3rd party programs.
Does anyone use that NC rarepart database ? Is it safe ? I signed up for it and an e-mail was sent to me with an attachement, but there was no explanation why.
it is the webmaster or person the host the information(Realtek) to protect it if that information is delted or hack it is totaly there fault.. read the laws
KK have done plenty to prevent this from hapenning .. Like
Making the password encrypted and
Basing the encryption on your hardware, This makes it even more unique. That way if someone actually gets on your machine, and reads the registry they and had the encryption algorythims, until they have a identical hardware specifications it would be impossible to get the password. Even KK could not decrypt the password without all the factors...
Since he recently changed his password, and all .. Why not identify what he and the others have downloaded in the past week or two. Then find something common and that should be your answer. Since its Neocron that is effected I would suggest starting with Neocron related items ... utils and toys
Originally posted by Fez
it is the webmaster or person the host the information(Realtek) to protect it if that information is delted or hack it is totaly there fault.. read the laws
Their server is secure, so its not as if a script kiddy is busting into the database just to get certain peoples codes.
Boy you're ignant'
:rolleyes:
The people who get their accounts 'hacked' either share their info and don't want to admit it for the lack of sympathy they'd get, or have stupidly easy login/password or shared it subtilely with others, perhaps in a manner they didn't even notice.
Once again, I ask how it could possibly be KK's fault when no one is breaking into the databases...
If someone had, you'd see alot more than a hack hack here and a hack hack there.
I NEVER allow any unknown outbound traffic leave my machine. My Firewall says "do you want to grant access, blah blah". Don't always assume it is someone elses fault when you know nothing about how it occured :rolleyes:
I have 3 separte email accounts, one of them is for crap, including forum sign ups and pr0n mails, one is for work which i use to keep in contact with agencies and the like and one is for secure stuff like online banking, paypal and neocron.
I've signed up to hundreds of forums and registered for everything from pr0n alerts to free pr0n using my crap email address, there is no way in hell I'd use it for NC.
Originally posted by Marx
a hack hack here and a hack hack there.
Here a hack, there a hack, everywhere a hack hack..
Sorry, couldn't resist :D
Originally posted by Nidhogg
P.S. We never said that Rizzy ever hacked a Neocron account so you may as well just put that one to rest. :rolleyes:
I imagine this is going to get me a 3 day ban, but it needs to be said. You're right, you guys never did. Instead you used him as a scapegoat for the hackings and banned him for something that had nothing to do with NC.
Originally posted by Keiron
I imagine this is going to get me a 3 day ban, but it needs to be said. You're right, you guys never did. Instead you used him as a scapegoat for the hackings and banned him for something that had nothing to do with NC.
o_O
Richard Angelus
16-02-04, 16:53
hmmmm how do you think they got your Acc PW?
hacked the database?o_O
all PW in the database are crypted.....normaly (and I don't think KK deactivated this feature) and this crypted PW is (near) useless because you can't use it to login.....
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Here a hack, there a hack, everywhere a hack hack..
http://dirtynuke.net/onozhacker.JPG
Ole' script kiddy knows zonealarm, 01100101011001010110010101 10010101100101001000000110 10010110100101101001011010 01011010010110100100100000 01100101011001010110010101 10010101100101011001010110 01010010000001101001011010 01011010010110100101101001 00100000011011110110111101 10111101101111011011110110 1111011011110110111101101111 (http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php)
DestructionUK
16-02-04, 16:59
if were going to think logicly then its more likely you guys are using 3rd party programs that have trojans in them and somones logging your passwords. if somone was going to hack into accounts from inside kk then im sure they would rather take empowered acounts not player ones.
MjukisDjur
16-02-04, 17:00
Hackers - please hack my account.
Until my stuff is gone I blame the players for having piss poor passes / sharing login details.
Cheers
Originally posted by MjukisDjur
Hackers - please hack my account.
Until my stuff is gone I blame the players for having piss poor passes / sharing login details.
Cheers
I gave that challange during the last hacking thread. No dice.
:(
I just remembered something that happend back in early retail...
Was when I was in Auriga I think. We invited someone into the clan that used to be in Crackheads. This person was (for some reason) set at the status where he could also invite other members to the clan. He invited at least 1 more into the clan and they went up to the clan appy and cleared us out - totally. They quit the clan and went back to MC's. I'll not mention names 'cos I don't want a kicking from the mods.
If it hadn't been for the fact that there were also other MC's in the clan appy and one of our members just so happened to see them up there, did we realise what had happened.
Sucks, but shit happens!
it's not just the fact that he was hacked it the fact they dont replace the stuff there permintly f0ked
i played EQ for 2 years and seen account hacked, they replace every item and ban anbody that the items were passed too. simple
Originally posted by Fez
it's not just the fact that he was hacked it the fact they dont replace the stuff there permintly f0ked
Why should they? It's not their fault.
i played EQ for 2 years and seen account hacked, they replace every item and ban anbody that the items were passed too. simple
... This was if it was an actual 'hack' and not a 'oh shit, friend deleted my char because he's mad at me'. There's a subtle way to find out the differences.
Most people are told to suck it in regards to account support.
Originally posted by Fez
i played EQ for 2 years and seen account hacked, they replace every item and ban anbody that the items were passed too. simple ... Has it occured to you that doing so would probably end up with way more pissed off people? O_o
Let's assume the "hacker" sells all the stuff he got, then lots of innocent people get banned, while the "hacker" is still free because he disposed of the items as quickly as possible.
MjukisDjur
16-02-04, 17:06
but in this case the items cannot be tracked (sucks donkey stuff imop)
Hope doy brings id on stuff...
Originally posted by Marx
http://dirtynuke.net/onozhacker.JPG
Ole' script kiddy knows zonealarm, 01100101011001010110010101 10010101100101001000000110 10010110100101101001011010 01011010010110100100100000 01100101011001010110010101 10010101100101011001010110 01010010000001101001011010 01011010010110100101101001 00100000011011110110111101 10111101101111011011110110 1111011011110110111101101111 (http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php)
LOL :lol:
EDIT-----
Arse - my link would not work :(
MjukisDjur
16-02-04, 17:08
the big question here is : WHO THE HELL sits inside with a leather jacket o_O
Originally posted by MjukisDjur
the big question here is : WHO THE HELL sits inside with a leather jacket o_O
Like, Neo, whoa.
:lol:
Clownst0pper
16-02-04, 17:13
Those whos accounts have been hacked, well, sorry for you. But.
Youd be suprised how easy it is to forget the littlest of things.
I wouldnt be suprised if its a DL/Website/Shared account that has caused this, the players mistake.
Not kk :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Fez
it's not just the fact that he was hacked it the fact they dont replace the stuff there permintly f0ked
i played EQ for 2 years and seen account hacked, they replace every item and ban anbody that the items were passed too. simple
In EQ they must use some method of tracking individual items around the game, KK dont, that why duplicating and hacking are a problem.
If KK could introduce some method of item tracking they could catch the exploiters & hackers from the game.
Originally posted by Nidhogg
I fail to see how this is KK's fault. Firstly, clans usually get cleaned out by disgruntled clan members, not hackers. Secondly, there's at least one post on this thread where someone says they share accounts - shared accounts have a tendency to get shared just a little too much, leading to the app getting cleaned out by a sharer, not a hacker.
You know my thoughts on sharing, you've seen me comment about it when someone casually drops into the conversation that they do it. You also know not to use free email accounts during registration, especially the ones where all you have to do when you forget your password is answer a "cryptic" question like "Which country's national anthem begins with the words 'O Canada'?"
N
P.S. We never said that Rizzy ever hacked a Neocron account so you may as well just put that one to rest. :rolleyes: exactly.
this is in no fuckin way kk's fault. if you cant secure your own damn comp / password to ur account then its your damn fault.
and dont say its vulnerabilities in KK's database because that has to be bullshit, they would have found all vulnerabilities by now, and its Level3's servers in the first place. Level 3 hosts MANY MANY mmo's such as EQ and neocron. they would know if any vulnerabilities existed.
ANY account hacked now is from pure stupidity, either: their comp was hacked( in which case they should have a firewall ), they have a trojan ( and dont fuckin say i dont ive scanned 100 times because just because you've scanned doesnt mean you dont have one that none of ur scanners cant find ), or even a family member of friend devulged the information to someone or did it themselves.
How do you know that your account have been hacked? Abt a week ago all the stuff from my apt (plaza 3) dissapeared and I found chinin and other junk parts in cabinets instead of all the stuff I had there. Looked like an apartment reset. Maybe its just some sort of a bug that KK doesnt want to confirm the existance of? Anyways, my apt wasnt rolled back and I just shrugged it off.
every implant every item and all the clan fund were stolen from this character . actaully both character were stripped :P
My account got hit - either last night or the night b4 :(
Only lost 7 mill + my SA, but it could have been worse.
The IDIOT changed my password to "password"
clever :rolleyes:
If clan funds were taken, does it not say who by ? Was it this 'hacked...' account ?
yes it was by this hacked account 1 million was taken every min for 32 mins :P
Originally posted by GT_Rince
How is it KK's fault when you know nothing of how it was hacked ? KK can easily solve the problem by tracking items.
Example: A player complains he was hacked. KK views the log of the character's items and attempts to track their current location. The items are either found on another character and that character is confronted or the items have been deleted from the game and KK restores them. Simple as pie.
Originally posted by RayBob
KK can easily solve the problem by tracking items.
Example: A player complains he was hacked. KK views the log of the character's items and attempts to track their current location. The items are either found on another character and that character is confronted or the items have been deleted from the game and KK restores them. Simple as pie.
That doesn't mean that someones account being hacked it KK's fault though, does it? That is just a solution that could be put into the DB - but would this then cause more lag issues as the DB got larger and larger?
It's not really that easy Ray. First, adding the ability to track every item will create a lot more work for the DB so that could mean lag or other server problems. Also, having a unique ID for items doesn't mean that it will resolve all problems. Look at D2. They have a unique item ID and dupers still found a way to dupe items so that they generate their own unique ID. (Basic idea is that when you buy an item the game gives it a new ID, so if you fool the game into thinking you just bought the duped item it will give it a new ID).
•Super|\|ova•
16-02-04, 18:07
Originally posted by Keiron
I imagine this is going to get me a 3 day ban, but it needs to be said. You're right, you guys never did. Instead you used him as a scapegoat for the hackings and banned him for something that had nothing to do with NC.
He deserves it. A person with THAT low morals deserves to get his arms cut off imo. "A crime is a crime."
Enough said.
Originally posted by RayBob
KK can easily solve the problem by tracking items.
Example: A player complains he was hacked. KK views the log of the character's items and attempts to track their current location. The items are either found on another character and that character is confronted or the items have been deleted from the game and KK restores them. Simple as pie.
I am John Buyer .. some guy comes to me and says I am selling a SA for 6 mill ... I buy it as its the best price I seen for a month... He goes off ...
KK come to me and say, the SA you bouth is a hacked item and we taking it back. Are they then able to track my 6 mill cause hey thats what I will loose due o someone else being hacked.
Product hacking is a solution for some things but I can't See how that would help here.
I may have that SA from legal means or illgeal means and KK won't know.
2 Accounts 1 computer ... Both Cleaned out with Clan App ... I assume the person was either in clan app or the clan main man else there is no way someone could get into clan ....
Originally posted by RayBob
KK can easily solve the problem by tracking items.
Example: A player complains he was hacked. KK views the log of the character's items and attempts to track their current location. The items are either found on another character and that character is confronted or the items have been deleted from the game and KK restores them. Simple as pie.
- scenario 1 -
player: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "haxx0r" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, haxx0r! you hacked poor players account!
haxx0r: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
haxx0r: dumbasses.
- scenario 2 -
cheat0r: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "player" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, player! you hacked poor cheat0rs account!
player: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
cheat0r: dumbasses.
now tell me, how will kk be able to tell scenario 1 from scenario 2?
simple as pie my ass.
Originally posted by Nidhogg
I fail to see how this is KK's fault. Firstly, clans usually get cleaned out by disgruntled clan members, not hackers...You know my thoughts on sharing...You also know not to use free email accounts during registrationEven if people lose items due to disgruntled clan members or account sharing, why doesn't KK have a heart and help people? By not helping their customers they will simply lose them. If someone uses HotMail and gets their account hacked, why doesn't KK try and help sort the poor person out rather than say stuff like "tough shit...you should know better...we warned ya." I mean come on, would it hurt them to be nice? Clans will always have problems with disgruntled players, but punishing 40 or 50 other players in the clan for one idiot's actions is not fair.
f KK tracked game items, they could easily see if the items were all moved to another account or deleted from the game. It would be easy to prevent people from abusing KK's kindness to dupe items, if in fact that is their concern.
•Super|\|ova•
16-02-04, 18:18
Originally posted by Tazo
- scenario 1 -
player: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "haxx0r" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, haxx0r! you hacked poor players account!
haxx0r: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
haxx0r: dumbasses.
- scenario 2 -
cheat0r: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "player" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, player! you hacked poor cheat0rs account!
player: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
cheat0r: dumbasses.
now tell me, how will kk be able to tell scenario 1 from scenario 2?
simple as pie my ass.
Well, if it's possible for KK they would need to have a log of the IPs of ppl who log on their accounts. That way they could compare the usual IP used for logging on that account and the possible unusual IPs. However... then the accounts owner could abuse the system I'm afraid o_O
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
[snip]
O/T found u o_O You cannot hide ;)
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, if it's possible for KK they would need to have a log of the IPs of ppl who log on their accounts. That way they could compare the usual IP used for logging on that account and the possible unusual IPs. However... then the accounts owner could abuse the system I'm afraid o_O
I play over dialup. My IP changes everytime.
or
I play at college and there are lots of people who have very similar IPs to myself.
I don't think tracking IPs is the right answer.
As for telling the difference between the 2 scenarios posted above, you'd need to see the chat log for that trade and I think we can all agree that it isn't possible to record all chat on all channels in all zones all the time.
Originally posted by Myrlin
As for telling the difference between the 2 scenarios posted above, you'd need to see the chat log for that trade and I think we can all agree that it isn't possible to record all chat on all channels in all zones all the time.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, if it's possible for KK they would need to have a log of the IPs of ppl who log on their accounts. That way they could compare the usual IP used for logging on that account and the possible unusual IPs. However... then the accounts owner could abuse the system I'm afraid o_O
that, and the fact that there are lots of isps who use dynamic IP distribution out there (especially here in germany, biggest ISP around here is t-online, and EVERY t-online ip is *.dip.t-dialin.net), make that totally unviable.
You say about 3rd party shit.. not everyone is a computer wizz and knows bout trojans and shit.. not all spyware progs and Virus scanners pick em up..
So if an innocent person oblivious to trojans and shit gets his account hacked through them means.. it's not his fault
But yet.. KK feel they shouldnt help.. even tho they may a customer:rolleyes:
I'm sure KK wants to help, the fact of the matter is they can't help because there are more people who abuse the reimbursement system than there are people who actually need help after being hacked.
Originally posted by Ascention
You say about 3rd party shit.. not everyone is a computer wizz and knows bout trojans and shit.. not all spyware progs and Virus scanners pick em up..
So if an innocent person oblivious to trojans and shit gets his account hacked through them means.. it's not his fault
But yet.. KK feel they shouldnt help.. even tho they may a customer:rolleyes:
so what youre asking for is one of these fancy security labels?
like "caution: using this microwave to dry rodents may cause damage and/or death to the animal?" :rolleyes:
get real, customers are customers, but its your own damn problem if you are too stupid or whatever to make your pc at least somewhat safe and not use passwords like "neocron", "password" or "12345".
edit: that would be like asking ford to give you a new car since your old one was stolen because you left the door unlocked.
Originally posted by Myrlin
It's not really that easy Ray...Look at D2I realize it may not be easy, but they have to be relentless about preventing such issues. I quit D2 after 3 years and 16 capped characters precisely because of the hacking. I wanted to play a fee-based game because I expected to have a safe environment to enjoy fair gameplay.
If KK told me that security cost 50% more than the current monthly fee, I would pay it. I realize most people wouldn't but I would because it is important to me. As talented as hackers might be, there are plenty of talented programmers that pride themselves in stopping them and implementing impenetrable security.
Originally posted by Myrlin
I'm sure KK wants to help, the fact of the matter is they can't help because there are more people who abuse the reimbursement system than there are people who actually need help after being hacked.
Not sure there are more who DO abuse it, but I would bet that more would...
Scenario:
CeatingFukk0r: FFS - I'm running out of MC5 cpu's
MotherFux0r: Tell you what. I'll go drop all my good shit in another apt - no-one can trace it after all. Then we tell KK I been haxx0red and I get all my shit back again - we then got double everything...
I could just see that happening soo many times. I'll bet the accounts that were hacked would suddenly rise...
Originally posted by GT_Rince
Not sure there are more who DO abuse it, but I would bet that more would...
Scenario:
CeatingFukk0r: FFS - I'm running out of MC5 cpu's
MotherFux0r: Tell you what. I'll go drop all my good shit in another apt - no-one can trace it after all. Then we tell KK I been haxx0red and I get all my shit back again - we then got double everything...
I could just see that happening soo many times. I'll bet the accounts that were hacked would suddenly rise...
KK has already stated on the forums that that scenario is exactly why the 100k reimbursement policy was implemented. Too many people were reporting their items stolen by hackers.
Example: I get killed in PP1 and drop my CS in my belt because I'm a dumbass and put it in slot 2. My options are now 1) fight to get it back 2) buy a new one 3) email helpdesk and say I got hacked so they spawn a new one for me.
Which sounds like the easiest solution to you?
damn that is shitty news.....everything I have on pluto, and I mean everything, rjn gave me(with the exception of the kami, thx sxr)........hes one of the coolest people I know, if there is anything u need man, give a brotha a DM, I dont have much, but its all youres, saturn, uranus, or pluto
-Serasul
Originally posted by Ascention
You say about 3rd party shit.. not everyone is a computer wizz and knows bout trojans and shit.. not all spyware progs and Virus scanners pick em up..
So if an innocent person oblivious to trojans and shit gets his account hacked through them means.. it's not his fault
But yet.. KK feel they shouldnt help.. even tho they may a customer:rolleyes: your right not everyone is, but if they choose to get on the internet, and choose to play online games they have that risk
everyone who plays online games should know what a trojan is, if they dont they are complete and utter dumbasses...
and its not KK's responsibility to replace stuff that the user lost.
When the First hacking happend allmost a year ago KK did do personal roll back. But Some people found it a good thing to abuse the faith KK gave to their customers. After thats KK decided not to do any char roll back. to be honest i can't blame em
Originally posted by reddog
When the First hacking happend allmost a year ago KK did do personal roll back. But Some people found it a good thing to abuse the faith KK gave to their customers. After thats KK decided not to do any char roll back. to be honest i can't blame em yup same with the weapons, they used to replace items but some of the dumb fuckers in this community took advantage of KKs good will early on, dont really blame them for offering the 100k or not roling back chars
There have been very exceptional circumstances where a runner has received a more fair amount, but that was ONLY because the GM that was present could see but not retrieve the item.
Originally posted by Archeus
Wasn't rjn hit before?
yes him and a bunch of other sxr clan members were hacked.
Originally posted by Lev
yes him and a bunch of other sxr clan members were hacked.
SXR (like several other clans) has its own forums where information, sometimes personal is displayed and talked about. I'd imagine like most forums you enter your e-mail addy.
With that wee' lil amount of information, any person who's bored can go after someone. Oh, hotmail (and other similar e-mail providers)? ... Special question...
Alot of people seem to use their e-mail title as their account login name.
=/
Boop boop be doop, bored person can make decent guesses as to certain password, gains access to the e-mail account - in the e-mail account, can look for other information or request a change of password who's conformation stands a strong chance of being sent to that e-mail address; the person who's accessed the e-mail account can then delete the confirmation e-mail.
They don't even need to do that. If the victim is using IE5 all they have to do is post a picture for them to view to get full access to thier machine.
http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2004/Feb/1009067.html
Originally posted by Marx
SXR (like several other clans) has its own forums where information, sometimes personal is displayed and talked about. I'd imagine like most forums you enter your e-mail addy.
With that wee' lil amount of information, any person who's bored can go after someone. Oh, hotmail (and other similar e-mail providers)? ... Special question...
Alot of people seem to use their e-mail title as their account login name.
=/
Boop boop be doop, bored person can make decent guesses as to certain password, gains access to the e-mail account - in the e-mail account, can look for other information or request a change of password who's conformation stands a strong chance of being sent to that e-mail address; the person who's accessed the e-mail account can then delete the confirmation e-mail.
Actually not so much, Since I along with the top two guys (no im not the 3rd just a friend) are computing majors, and I'm a security administrator, we tend not to do things like that. The e-mail may be displayed but its an opt-in option and I dont think anyone has it enabled.
As for other previous accounts being hacked, at least on some of them (fn) significant security measures were in place to prevent just such an occurance and the computer was free of all trojans and showed no other signs of infection, not to mention no strange outbound traffic.
anyway just a little history.....
--Lev
why cant KK just implement a item tracking system...
i SWEAR i remember some KK/mod person saying they did along time ago before all the hacked accounts, back when people were exploiting and duping items, they said they can track the items and ban the exploiters....maybe they were just lying though to try and get them not to exploit:wtf:
Originally posted by Lev
but its an opt-in option and I dont think anyone has it enabled.
But what about on these forums?
What about other forums?
It's easy as hell to gets ones e-mail addy, and it's 10 times easier to crack their password if you actually know them.
As for other previous accounts being hacked, at least on some of them (fn) significant security measures were in place to prevent just such an occurance and the computer was free of all trojans and showed no other signs of infection, not to mention no strange outbound traffic
Do you honestly beleive that someone hacked into KK's encrypted databases just to get this info, whilst not doing anything else?
why cant KK just implement a item tracking system...
1.) It's not needed. If there actually is a visable flaw which caused the loss you get replacements.
2.) It would increase the workload of the server, and therefore create more lag.
ghandisfury
16-02-04, 21:48
Originally posted by Tazo
- scenario 1 -
player: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "haxx0r" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, haxx0r! you hacked poor players account!
haxx0r: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
haxx0r: dumbasses.
- scenario 2 -
cheat0r: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "player" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, player! you hacked poor cheat0rs account!
player: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: oh. sorry then.
cheat0r: dumbasses.
now tell me, how will kk be able to tell scenario 1 from scenario 2?
simple as pie my ass.
player: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "haxx0r" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, haxx0r! you hacked poor players account!
haxx0r: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: Really? Why would he sell you a spy a DS? What did he sell it to you for? How much was it?
haxxor: Ermm.......Uh, he sold it to me for 20 million.
kk: Really? Cause he has 17 million on this account, can't see a reason for him to need 20 more.....
haxxor: WTF you calling me a liaarr?
kk: no, I'm calling you banned dumbass.
cheat0r: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "player" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, player! you hacked poor cheat0rs account!
Player: No I didn't, I hacked it from his belt yesterday.
kk: Really? What time?
Player: Dunno, around 4 or 5 EST:
kk: Ok, so you hacked these 60 MC5 parts out of his belt?
Player: Erm.......he had red SL? YOU CALLLIN ME A LIER?!?!
kk: No, I'm calling you banned.....DUMBASS.
Darth Slayer
16-02-04, 21:56
Originally posted by Shujin
question:
how could someone steal someones clan apt / apt shit... unless they got a keylogger on their system.. how can the hacker know the passwords to the apt's.
Give Shujin a cookie.....
Wondered if anyone else noticed that.
Originally posted by Darth Slayer
Give Shujin a cookie.....
Wondered if anyone else noticed that.
Hence my vote of 'done by a "friend"'
Originally posted by Darth Slayer
Give Shujin a cookie.....
Wondered if anyone else noticed that.
give urself a cookie, there is sometin called a genrep that allows u to go back to ur apt......that among many other things is how someone who doesnt play on youre account can get into ur apt........
Originally posted by extract
give urself a cookie, there is sometin called a genrep that allows u to go back to ur apt......that among many other things is how someone who doesnt play on youre account can get into ur apt........
Lets get real, alot of people have storage apartments which hold their "MILYONS OF KREDATS WERTH OF ITAMS".
Originally posted by extract
give urself a cookie, there is sometin called a genrep that allows u to go back to ur apt......that among many other things is how someone who doesnt play on youre account can get into ur apt........ The original post was talking about the clan appartment, and unless the person who was "hacked" was the clan leader it's impossible to GR into those.
*shrug*
I do a lot of work with high level security networks & systems.
95 to 99% of security "issues" are down to human error/behaviour/habits.
Apply Occam's razor to the "kk haxx0red !" situation, and the most likely conclusion should be pretty obvious.
You can make all the suppositions and accusations and guesswork you like - if you haven't got cold, hard proof of the hacking method, then your theory holds exactly the same weight as ascribing it to voodoo or evil pixies.
Harsh, but them's the breaks.
Originally posted by kurai
*shrug*
I do a lot of work with high level security networks & systems.
95 to 99% of security "issues" are down to human error/behaviour/habits.
Apply Occam's razor to the "kk haxx0red !" situation, and the most likely conclusion should be pretty obvious.
You can make all the suppositions and accusations and guesswork you like - if you haven't got cold, hard proof of the hacking method, then your theory holds exactly the same weight as ascribing it to voodoo or evil pixies.
Harsh, but them's the breaks.
I agree with Kurai. I work in IT security. We can push out patches to our users the same day they are released. We can push out virus definitions just as fast. In the end it still comes down to users making stupid mistakes. Our biggest problem now is users who write their password down on a post-it note and stick it to their monitor.
Originally posted by trigger hurt
betcha can't blame this one on rizzy, can ya kk?
One word -
Rofl.
Originally posted by Myrlin
Our biggest problem now is users who write their password down on a post-it note and stick it to their monitor.
oh shi...
*takes a slow-motion dive across his computer desk and grabs the post-it note from his monitor and falls to the floor*
This computar machine, is protected.
Originally posted by Marx
oh shi...
*takes a slow-motion dive across his computer desk and grabs the post-it note from his monitor and falls to the floor*
This computar machine, is protected.
DARK HELMET: So the combination is 1,2,3,4,5 ... That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage.
PRESIDENT SKROOB: .... 1,2,3,4,5. That's amazing I've got the same combination on my luggage.
Originally posted by Myrlin
DARK HELMET: So the combination is 1,2,3,4,5 ... That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage.
PRESIDENT SKROOB: .... 1,2,3,4,5. That's amazing I've got the same combination on my luggage.
*looks up from his cup of coffee*
Why do I sense something sinister is going on?
*looks around and sees nothing*
Back to surfin' pr0n then I guess.
Originally posted by kurai
*shrug*
I do a lot of work with high level security networks & systems.
95 to 99% of security "issues" are down to human error/behaviour/habits.
Apply Occam's razor to the "kk haxx0red !" situation, and the most likely conclusion should be pretty obvious.
You can make all the suppositions and accusations and guesswork you like - if you haven't got cold, hard proof of the hacking method, then your theory holds exactly the same weight as ascribing it to voodoo or evil pixies.
Harsh, but them's the breaks.
I work abuse@somerandom.isp.net and i second that opinion : people just don't give a shit about computer security because they don't feel like they should give a shit about it. then when they get their asses owned, they bitch and moan until they ( the customer) are right.
Well guess what? Still doesn't change the fact that they are a bunch of dimwits that should have given a shit about all that fucking hoopla.
Originally posted by Invertigo
i SWEAR i remember some KK/mod person saying they did along time ago before all the hacked accounts, back when people were exploiting and duping items, they said they can track the items and ban the exploiters....maybe they were just lying though to try and get them not to exploit:wtf:
I remember once around the times before they found out about the infamous stacks of duped illegals ( and consequently nerfed em from being used on rares ) that i was chatting with Kobra in pepper park and he was truly psyched that he would kill a person, they would drop a rare, and they would not bitch and moan to get it back. and then, they would return with another rare of the same kind a few moments later to kill him.
Suddenly there was a psymonk right besides us with a kk--reaktor faction asking, no... INSISTING to see the weapons in question ( and i saw those, they were pretty sweet 4-5 slotted rares with quasi maxxed stats, i tell ya).
Next thing you know, the whole "stacks of duped illegals" showing up in some random garbage found by a noob looking for wire to recycle and the rest, as they say, is history...
Originally posted by Marx
But what about on these forums?
What about other forums?
It's easy as hell to gets ones e-mail addy, and it's 10 times easier to crack their password if you actually know them.
What the shit?
My response was to you implying we (SXR members, not me personally) were hacked because of our forums. This is almost certainly not true for reasons already listed. As for members using other means to share account info..... I dont see how thats relavent to the SXR forum server.
[
Do you honestly beleive that someone hacked into KK's encrypted databases just to get this info, whilst not doing anything else?
How do you know that KK's DB is encrypted? judging from other security measures they have taken I would hazard a guess that it isnt. Throwing cool words around like "encrypted databases" and implying that hotmail accounts are as good as open just makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.
Which i suspect is the case here.
--Lev
So someone tell me again why KK is to blame for this?
Originally posted by Lev
What the shit?
My response was to you implying we (SXR members, not me personally) were hacked because of our forums. This is almost certainly not true for reasons already listed. As for members using other means to share account info..... I dont see how thats relavent to the SXR forum server.
No, I stated outright that a majority of people who're 'hacked' take part in clan forums where personal info is posted, e-mail addy's exchanged, etcetera. Any person with enough free time can get into an average persons e-mail account if it uses the damned 'special passcode' system, as many do.
I'm sorry that you got your panties in a knit over that bit of common sense.
How do you know that KK's DB is encrypted? judging from other security measures they have taken I would hazard a guess that it isnt. Throwing cool words around like "encrypted databases" and
Because that's what the KK staffers have said, and I would at least trust them to know what they're doing.
Also, all the peoples I know of who've complained about being 'hacked' either a.) shared account info (and didn't want to admit it) -or- b.) took part in clan forums.
It's not a question of me 'not knowing what I'm talking about'. It's a matter of you 'not seeing the forest for the trees'.
implying that hotmail accounts are as good as open just makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.
It is. If the person attempting to get in has at least a working knowledge about the person.
I could probably get into the e-mail accounts of most people I know and speak to daily.
You probably could too.
Originally posted by Nidhogg
We are suggesting that you do not use hotmail accounts because they are hackable and we know that Neocron users have been hacked. It would therefore be amiss of us if we were not to recommend that you review your security in light of this information. Nothing more has been decided at this point in time.
Favorite nid e-mail quote of the many he's made.
Originally posted by Strych9
So someone tell me again why KK is to blame for this?
Someone tell me as well please.
Don't you think that if KK itself were hacked that there would be greater incidents? Like hacked GM accounts, massive spawns of items, large amounts of account hacked/deleted.
Also, if KK WERE hacked I am sure they would notice before we do. If they were hacked, I'm sure the incidents would be of such a larger magnitude that an official statement from KK will be made.
Have we seen this? Until we do, I for one will assume one of the following:
1. Password has been shared.
2. Account signed up with a crap address such as hotmail, msn etc (or account changed to such an address).
3. An intuitive an easily guessed password is used.
4. The supposed hacked person is lying.
Originally posted by Myrlin
DARK HELMET: So the combination is 1,2,3,4,5 ... That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage.
PRESIDENT SKROOB: .... 1,2,3,4,5. That's amazing I've got the same combination on my luggage.
lol - not seen that move for a long time. Must go blow the dust off my video :D
Originally posted by ghandisfury
player: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "haxx0r" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, haxx0r! you hacked poor players account!
haxx0r: wtf? he sold his stuff to me! i dont hack no accounts!
kk: Really? Why would he sell you a spy a DS? What did he sell it to you for? How much was it?
haxxor: Ermm.......Uh, he sold it to me for 20 million.
kk: Really? Cause he has 17 million on this account, can't see a reason for him to need 20 more.....
haxxor: WTF you calling me a liaarr?
kk: no, I'm calling you banned dumbass.
cheat0r: WTF KK MY SUTFF IS GNOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONOZ IVE BEAN HCKAED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kk: *checks database* hmmm looks like account "player" has the stuff. *logs in* yo, player! you hacked poor cheat0rs account!
Player: No I didn't, I hacked it from his belt yesterday.
kk: Really? What time?
Player: Dunno, around 4 or 5 EST:
kk: Ok, so you hacked these 60 MC5 parts out of his belt?
Player: Erm.......he had red SL? YOU CALLLIN ME A LIER?!?!
kk: No, I'm calling you banned.....DUMBASS.
Hmm .. I not that convinced of this ... Why well Haxxor may be a clan member and so he buy for clan ... or friend...or one of his alts ... Now there goes a ban on someone who is doing a normal transaction.
Reason for 20 more million.. He wants a SA not a DS ... Someone offered him a SA for 22 million ... he a little short of cash then....
Think about what you are saying here ... . Unlike the real world where possesion is proof. In the real world you don't have someone in another persons character lying ...
For me the problem isn't as much that accounts are being hacked its more kk has done nothing about it since it started almost a year ago. They need to intro some sort of system to track items, that way people can get caught out. If i say i had a 4 slot xxx constructed by xxx, why cant they do a search of the database to find out where it is? When people pay for a product they expect some sort of security that it will be safe. eg. if i buy a car it could be stolen but i can add security measure to maximise my chances of getting it back.
Also i see neocron as more like a hiring of a service...if i hire a tv and it breaks down i expect a replacement identical to the one i had...shouldnt kk do the same? The product we buy is the game at the start then we subscribe to the service, which i see as the running of the servers etc, since i pay them to run it i expect them to keep my data safe, they say their customers have to proove its not their fault...how can it be their fault? Even if they do have a hotmail account how is that their fault? If my house got broken into and the police said they couldnt investigate it because i had at one point in my life given my key to a neighbour or a key cutter to duplicate, do you think this would be acceptibale? If someone is the victim of a malicious attack whether in real life or on the net it is never "their fault" imo, they can make it easier for the offender but that doesnt mean they dont deserve any compensation.
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