@Callash / Game dev.... [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

t0tt3

15-02-04, 14:23

Originally posted by ___T-X____
This isnt about monkocron. although i hear what your saying

LOL after all these nerfs you have your Tank'o'cron so you can stick with your PA3 for eva. Just take drugs you can wear it we cant do it.

Originally posted by Carinth
You should hafta drug to put on pa4, thats the point of it. You should however be able to keep it on and wearing it should actualy improve you somehow. Monk PA4 makes you worse : )

Pa 1 is usable by not capped characters
Pa 2 is usable by capped characters
Pa 3 is usable by capped characters with best implants
Pa 4 is usable by capped characters with best implants and drugged up

Thats the guide, if I recall, for usability of each pa.

Cruzbroker

15-02-04, 14:26

mmm, lower them to reasonable level ..

___T-X____

15-02-04, 14:31

There arent enough drugs to get you to STR 135.

Tazo

15-02-04, 15:05

yes there are, the shaman drops a +10 STR drug

Player

15-02-04, 15:06

a tank has 119 str with the normal str implants ... + 10 with nightshade, + 7 with tiger blood and + 12 with all STR drugs from the trader... and you really say you cannot reach 135 str ? :P

jernau

15-02-04, 15:56

What t0tt3 said.

Also - Compare all the classes :
- Monk's PA4 is not usable at all without a drug that hasn't dropped for a year and was rare-as-hell then anyway.
- Spies need major gimpage and constant drugging (as was intended).
- PEs can use PA4 without drugs but only by using a heavily gimped setup.
- Tanks can use PA4 with constant drugging (as was intended).

IMO only the monks are in a position to bitch.

greendonkeyuk

15-02-04, 16:05

Originally posted by Player
a tank has 119 str with the normal str implants ... + 10 with nightshade, + 7 with tiger blood and + 12 with all STR drugs from the trader... and you really say you cannot reach 135 str ? :P

tigers blood is unclonable and doesnt drop any more...... hardly a complete solution is it..... i think what t-x was askin for was a versatile solution to the problem that can be readily obtained. in other words some drugs that drop regularly from mobs or some sort of review of current levels. people dont wanna use their tigers blood jus so they can idle about plaza 1/2. They want benefits from the insane druggin to reach the level 4 pa and they dont wanna be a gimp wearing it.

Omnituens

15-02-04, 16:33

Originally posted by jernau
IMO only the monks are in a position to bitch.
*Omnituens enters from stage left

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA my turn!

oh wait, im a hybrid

*Omnituens exits stage right

jernau

15-02-04, 16:36

Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
tigers blood is unclonable and doesnt drop any more...... hardly a complete solution is it..... i think what t-x was askin for was a versatile solution to the problem that can be readily obtained. in other words some drugs that drop regularly from mobs or some sort of review of current levels. people dont wanna use their tigers blood jus so they can idle about plaza 1/2. They want benefits from the insane druggin to reach the level 4 pa and they dont wanna be a gimp wearing it.

A normal (ie ungimped) Tank can put the armour on using Nightshade + any two of (Beast, X-Strong or Thyronol). He can then keep it on using either Nightshade or the other three together.

No need for Tigers Blood.

/edit - if you replace your PP with an STR imp you can put it on without the Nightshade and keep it on with just Beast - This is comparable to what a spy has to do but with less gimpage.

___T-X____

15-02-04, 17:59

AT CAP

horrible way to set yourself but here goes

Zerk 3= +5
Marine = +5
Hardback = +5
Zerk 2 = +3
Move = +3

thyorol = +3
Beast = +5
Xstrong = +4 ?

Tigers Blood isnt dropped now - anyway get in the real world instead of offering the Shamen drugs as a viable solution to wear pa for 5 minutes.

= 133 STR

and thats gimped and its still too high to wear

SirRah

15-02-04, 18:06

okay.......

Pa 4 is usable by capped characters with best implants and drugged up

o_O zerk 2 is not one of the best imps. swap it for a herc and you are fine.

even with best imps and gimped i cant reach PA4 as a monk. so please do something about it.

greendonkeyuk

15-02-04, 18:07

3 drugs + all the strength imps going..... not very realistic is it...

jernau

15-02-04, 18:19

Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
3 drugs + all the strength imps going..... not very realistic is it...

It's exactly how it's supposed to be.
There are 4 levels for a reason and the top one is supposed to be extremely hard to use. If it weren't people would whinge that the PAs didn't go high enough. :rolleyes:

My tank uses :
Herc (+6)
Marine (+5)
MOVEON (+3)
Resistor (0)
Backbone (+5)

That takes him to 119 with no PA. There are 22 points available from drugs and the PA gives 8 once it's on.

That imp setup is not at all gimped, I could get more from imps if I wanted to gimp and make it easier.

Tank PA4 is exactly as it should be. Spy's and PE's are also correct or pretty close. Monk's needs to drop 5 points or they need a +5 PSI eye.

Opar

15-02-04, 18:26

Is it not

Zerk 3 (+5)
Marine (+5)
Herc (+6)
MOVE ON (+3)
Strength Booster 3 (+5)

Takes it to 124...

Nightshade takes it to 134
Thy takes it to 137
Thy Forte/that other level 2 STR drug gives an extra +5 taking it to 142.

Wow. Pwnage.

extract

15-02-04, 18:41

STR 100
w/ herc 106
add/marine 111
add/zerk3 116
add/MOVE ON 119
add/hardenbackbone3 124
take/beast 129
take/xstrong 133
take/thyronol 136

thats not even using any rare drugs......

I see no problem here

___T-X____

15-02-04, 18:59

yea, but some of us didnt get a HERCULES CHIP when the glass was in MC5 and the exploits were there.

Since its all based on having an impossible to get Hercules Chip because they have changed mc5 so much, why not change the armour back to 130 like it was in patch 192.

There was no complaints about it.

feel free to do a forum search on that point...so just change the pa4 back to 130 so the armour that was designed can be used.

Nightshade takes it to 134

yea, go clear the swamp caves with a team 5-6 times to get a drug that will allow you to wear an armour for 5 minutes....ffs u people, get with it

extract

15-02-04, 19:02

Originally posted by ___T-X____
yea, but some of us didnt get a HERCULES CHIP when the glass was in MC5 and the exploits were there.

altho I agree fully with the fact that its a bit unfair to people now there, but its not totally impossible to get MC5 chips, it just takes a whole lot longer now because you have to take more people there, and that means having to share more parts.....but it is still fully possible, or people wouldnt be going there everyday.....youre a capped/nearcap tank, thats the easiest class to take to MC5.....just get another tank and 2 bomb ass PPUs and have a rad ass camp fest.....

t0tt3

15-02-04, 19:03

5 - 6 times thats 25 to 30 mins you can wear that PA
I mean its rare and you need to take drug to hold it thats why its a PA 4.

And wipe that cave aint that hard just bring a PPU and kill him 10 times that shouldnt be a problem, or just buy them from somone for 15 - 20 k a pop or so "dunno how much never bought them :p"

jernau

15-02-04, 19:15

Originally posted by ___T-X____
yea, but some of us didnt get a HERCULES CHIP when the glass was in MC5 and the exploits were there.

Since its all based on having an impossible to get Hercules Chip because they have changed mc5 so much, why not change the armour back to 130 like it was in patch 192.

There was no complaints about it.

feel free to do a forum search on that point...so just change the pa4 back to 130 so the armour that was designed can be used.

yea, go clear the swamp caves with a team 5-6 times to get a drug that will allow you to wear an armour for 5 minutes....ffs u people, get with it

1) Herc is not impossible to get at all
2) Swap a Beserk3 into my setup and it still works just fine
3) Why should tanks have it easier than any other class
4) You can do it without Nightshade just fine but you have to compromise elsewhere
5) It's not supposed to be easy. The current system is good and most people seem to understand and agree with it - you can search too if you like ;)

PA4 is not supposed to be standard kit - it's for posing in Plaza and/or for drug-freaks to use in combat.

___T-X____

15-02-04, 19:19

Jernau ....how do you do it with out a herc or swamp cave drugs ?

@mc5, i killed the commander 6 times tryin an ***ploit (so sick of permasync dying ) before the patch and got 1 part between 2 people after camping there for 2 hours telling other people to leave that camp and wanted to camp there. Its was a hawkins part. And the ***ploit isnt there now so you zone line crash / sync trying to kil the commander

jernau

15-02-04, 19:26

Originally posted by ___T-X____
Jernau ....how do you do it with out a herc or swamp cave drugs ?

You can't - you need one or the other.

It's a high end item for those with all the best items.

If you can't get either the top implant or the top drug you don't qualify.

SirRah

15-02-04, 19:36

Originally posted by Callash
[...]PA1 = for Precap-chars, PA2 = for Cap-chars, PA3 = for imp-donning Cap-chars, PA4 = for drug-abusing-imp-donning Cap-chars

PA4 is supposed to be hard to wear.

___T-X____

15-02-04, 19:54

If you can't get either the top implant or the top drug you don't qualify.

So you trhink that you should have to get a rare drug to wear a PA for 5 minutes is right ?

and ermmm. mc5 has changed making it just bollocks to be honest to try to get a chip, i think the pa4 should be changed for a tank to reflect this. pa4 is a gret piece of kid that will require heavily drugging for, theres no reason its shouldnt be back to 130 like it was at 192 patch

jernau

15-02-04, 20:11

Originally posted by ___T-X____
So you trhink that you should have to get a rare drug to wear a PA for 5 minutes is right ?

I wouldn't object to that being the case but it isn't.
You need it to activate the armour and can then use shop-bought drug(s) to keep it on or you can get a Herc and not need the rare drug at all.

It's perfect as it is.

Originally posted by ___T-X____
and ermmm. mc5 has changed making it just bollocks to be honest to try to get a chip, i think the pa4 should be changed for a tank to reflect this. pa4 is a gret piece of kid that will require heavily drugging for, theres no reason its shouldnt be back to 130 like it was at 192 patch

MC5 has always sucked and it's still perfectly possible to farm it - just ask all the people who do exactly that (try Original Monk for a start).

I say again :
All the PAs except monk's are working as KK want them to
Why should tanks have it easier than any other class?

and I'll add :
If you can use all items easily with just the imps that drop off mobs a /20 can kill then what is the point of capping your char and working your ass off to get the top items?

___T-X____

15-02-04, 20:25

You need it to activate the armour and can then use shop-bought drug(s) to keep it on or you can get a Herc and not need the rare drug at all. ok, to wear it for 10 minutes you need rares drugs and shop bought drugs o_O

MC5 has always sucked and it's still perfectly possible to ---->farm it <----- just ask all the people who do exactly that (try Original Monk for a start).

aye good one, try playing Uranus and 'Farming it' without an LE...your unbelievable...i guess you have the mc5 chips you want already ? you know, from when its could be 'farmed' (what a stupid term - you mean camped for hours) its laughable how flipent you sound. You mean 2 classes PA's work fine, and the other 2 dont, you know like 50 %

/20 mobs...This armour is 35% higher than the CAP

jernau

15-02-04, 20:35

Originally posted by ___T-X____
ok, to wear it for 10 minutes you need rares drugs and shop bought drugs o_O

No. To wear it for as long as you want you need one rare drug. Tbh if you can't even get a grasp on the facts I doubt anyone, especially KK, is going to have any pity for your PoV.

Originally posted by ___T-X____
aye good one, try playing Uranus and 'Farming it' without an LE...your unbelievable...i guess you have the mc5 chips you want already ? you know, from when its could be 'farmed' (what a stupid term - you mean camped for hours) its laughable how flipent you sound. You mean 2 classes PA's work fine, and the other 2 dont, you know like 50 %

I don't play Uranus so I can't speak for that server but I doubt it is totally devoid of talent. If players on other servers can get the parts why can't you? FYI - I have chips for some of my chars but I still need more and I still hunt and trade for them without difficulty.

Originally posted by ___T-X____
You mean 2 classes PA's work fine, and the other 2 dont, you know like 50 %

Actually three work fine - tanks are one of those three.

Originally posted by ___T-X____
are you a litle stupid ? this armour is 35% higher than the CAP

I'm not so stupid I can't see that this is a) exactly the same for all classes and b) exactly as it should be.

You are now just ignoring the points that every other poster has made against your daft idea and resorting to insults. Try to show us how the current situation is a) disadadvantaging tanks over other classes or b) not working as designed or you just look silly.

Whitestuff

15-02-04, 20:40

Originally posted by jernau

I'm not so stupid I can't see that this is a) exactly the same for all classes and b) exactly as it should be.

You are now just ignoring the points that every other poster has made against your daft idea and resorting to insults. Try to show us how the current situation is a) disadadvantaging tanks over other classes or b) not working as designed or you just look silly.

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING! I read through this entire thread just to be sure, but ditto Jernau.

___T-X____

15-02-04, 20:43

urgh, i really cant be fucked to quote you and answer your post Jernau, the thread title is to 'Callash /Dev's' not Jernau.

The point of my post was to say that the PA4 has been made far harder to reach than ever before due to changes like mc5's and no tigers blood. its was dropped to 130 STR in patch 192 and all I want to know is if KK will review it.

simple.

jernau

15-02-04, 20:47

Originally posted by ___T-X____
The point of my post was to say that the PA4 has been made far harder to reach than ever before

Actually it used to be impossible to use at all.

Try PMing Callash if you like - he'll tell you the same thing we have.

___T-X____

15-02-04, 20:51

...
Actually it used to be impossible to use at all.

I see, this is the improvement.

So do you know why it was changed fgrom 130 to 135 ? cos that as what the post was about ...

jernau

15-02-04, 21:02

Originally posted by ___T-X____
...

I see, this is the improvement.

So do you know why it was changed fgrom 130 to 135 ? cos that as what the post was about ...

Because Callash wanted the progression to be as posted earlier in thread :

Pa 1 is usable by not capped characters
Pa 2 is usable by capped characters
Pa 3 is usable by capped characters with best implants
Pa 4 is usable by capped characters with best implants and drugged up

t0tt3

15-02-04, 23:22

Well you can use the PA4 with drugs and best implants and that is what you need.... why complain ?

40$Poser

15-02-04, 23:25

here's an idea concerning BDoY...

maybe with Wisdom of Ceres skill maybe level 4 power armor will be attainable or if not that should be how it is.

Mr Friendly

15-02-04, 23:44

Originally posted by ___T-X____
Is there any plan to make the TANK PA 4 a STR level that can be worn ?

Its currently _35_ STRENGTH levels above the cap....

STR 130 was fine, i really dont know why it was changed ?

can u help me with this one, the mind baffles....

why, may i ask, do u tanks always wanna have the PA4 able to be worn???......but if yall do get to be able to with like all +5 imps in all 4 slots, the PA4 for psi BETTER be also wearable in the same way as the tank

Omnituens

16-02-04, 00:35

good point, why the hell do you want to wear PA4 when you complain the PA stats gimp you too much anyway?

GT_Rince

16-02-04, 13:10

Can I point out something from BDoY... That there will be Wisdom of Ceres - this will allow you to move past your main CAP and will allow for more than 100 STR, for example.

It is coming, just not yet :D

naimex

16-02-04, 14:02

PAs are so gimped only reason I´m even wearing PA3 is because I have a setup that allows me to run really fast without much atl, and without removing resists from my skills.

Making me fast without Strength.
Making me hurt with Resists
Making me happy even though I look like every god damn other tank on that server with a PA.

IMHO wearing PA4 will give you more trouble than it will gain you in combat.

All that is needed is Customisable Power Armor.

That CAMO thing.. sure.. it adds a bit.. but now we just have 3 kinds of tanks running around. those without PA those with PA.

and of course i had the pre retail camo model, so all tanks in PA now looks like CAMO.....

Archeus

16-02-04, 14:47

I guess the PA4 is for the BDOY skill upgrades.

Dribble Joy

16-02-04, 14:53

Originally posted by GT_Rince
Can I point out something from BDoY... That there will be Wisdom of Ceres - this will allow you to move past your main CAP and will allow for more than 100 STR, for example.

It is coming, just not yet :D

WoC skills don't actually raise your stats above the cap, you just gain xp. When you reach what would be a new lvl you get a skill or ability.

(dual wielding as high lvl WoC skill please)

GT_Rince

16-02-04, 15:03

naimex

16-02-04, 15:05

Originally posted by Dribble Joy
WoC skills don't actually raise your stats above the cap, you just gain xp. When you reach what would be a new lvl you get a skill or ability.

(dual wielding as high lvl WoC skill please)

muahahahaha

Can just see myself

standing on a hilltop, firing 2x malediction per normal time followed by me running down a hill with 2 cs´es blasting everything and anyone to pieces...

:)

too bad it prolly only will be for PEs the 2 weapon at a time thing.(well or melee tanks :p)

tanks will just get some sort of rage.. allowing them double damage.

A dno.. but its worth a thought tho :)