View Full Version : Get your act together
I don't care about DoY. I haven't paid for DoY. I have paid for Neocron - and you know what I got in return? Shit. I didn't get a game. I got a buggy piece of software that makes Windows look like a triumph.
I'm not interested in what the expansion pack apologists have to say. I should not have to pay AGAIN to get something that more closely resembles a game than what I originally threw my money down for and recieved.
This is utter fucking bullshit. Your servers are laggy, your software is a heap of shit and your gameplay is all over the place.
I guess the predominant question to the development team is: Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to make a video game?
Apparently fucking not.
I'm sick of this shit. If this piece of crap is not sorted out soon, you can count on me not buying the rest of the features that should have been in Neocron from the start that you are now lumping in an expansion pack to pay for the fact you've got your thumbs up your asses.
PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS. Do you fucking understand that? It may not be much money individually, but people are still putting their hard-earned money on the table for something that doesn't even fit standards to be called a fucking BETA. Sure, we can stop paying at any time - but the real avalanche of shit and bugs doesn't really appear until after you've played for a while.
And now, enter all sorts of people saying "well the game works for me! you just have to rub your head, pat your tummy and play with your feet so it wont crash!" etc. etc. etc:
nonamebrandeggs
15-02-04, 01:34
We were all thinking it, you just said it. :)
Then leave and do us a favour.
What is posting here achieving you? Apart from a temp ban of course.
Well, someones got their g-string too far up their arse and cant find it.
Actually I think he has all the right to post something like that. Being a paying customer, he has the right to put forth his opinion on how the game is and should be, and personally I agree with him. Something like this shouldn't warrant a temp ban, it's just saying it the way it is.
Neocron is way to buggy, for a game that's been around as long as it has. I've played many MMO games prior to playing this one (played in the beta as well) and none have near the problems that this does. So maybe they should focus on some of the major problems they have, rather then the features they want. I for one am sick of crashing at every fucking zone.
DarkOmen
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 01:41
Hmm...you must have a different game from me...mine runs a lot better than what yours apparently does...and for the record...DoY has been planned and talked about for as long as I can remember...I don't think they're trying to make up for anything...but anyway...nice to meet ya, glad to see ya go...what was the point of your posting this other than to sound like a whiney brat...anyway, as they say...Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya
EDIT: what are these problems people always talk about getting...I don't crash anymore during game play...when I do crash it's when I'm trying to close the game after I've been alt+tabbing a bunch...I don't really get gfx errors anymore xcept that time I d/l those new nvidia drivers...all in all my game play xperience is quite smooth
what he said is perfectly true, and thats wot makes me love this game so much :D
i personally think milky ren and droms is the only thing keeping this game together but that besides the point
its ur choice if u dont like it then leave we do u dont its ur opinion if u wanna moan about it mail one of the GM's or something but not us cos we dont give a dogs bollock
Actually although he put it very harshly, i agree. I do think there are some bugs and issues in this game that should have been addressed LONG before it was released. I've been playing ut2k4 the past few days(demo) just for something different. And although its really not my style of game, its nice to install something and have everything run nice and smooth and not having to restart and get back into the action once every hour or so.
Aha, of course Judge, rather than trying to entertain an idea you don't immediately agree with, you'd rather see it censored out. Bravo to you and your open-mindedness.
What does it get me? One, it lets me blow off some steam, two, it establishes an opportunity for anyone else in the community who feels this way to stand up and let KK know that they aren't going to take shit anymore. The Neocron community has put up with far more than any other game community has ever tolerated. God must be on KKs side, because it's a fucking miracle they are still in business.
And this is going to get me a temp ban you say? Lovely. I don't agree with what KK is doing - so I get removed. Perfect. That's the way to do it.
Well I agree, if I was in a position as Reakktor I wouldnt release the game unless the game can run by itself without crashing all the time... I also think it's kinda lame to fix the "fatal-error" bug in an expansion when it should be done in the original game in the first place. Anyway Reakktor does a good job but some areas can be discussed.
There I said it. :cool:
He has a right to voice his opinion, but not like this:
I fucking hate you Kk, why the fuck dont you sort out this fucking game you hopeless shit-lickers? You couldnt fucking program a fucking dumbed-down version of Space fucking Invaders you ass holes.
But say it more like this:
Now i respect you KK, for trying your best to iron out all the bugs in this game, but i am getting a bit concerned. I mean, hey, you should try and program Space Invanders v0.00000002, and work your way up.
Hmm...you must have a different game from me...mine runs a lot better than what yours apparently does...and for the record...DoY has been planned and talked about for as long as I can remember...I don't think they're trying to make up for anything...but anyway...nice to meet ya, glad to see ya go...what was the point of your posting this other than to sound like a whiney brat...anyway, as they say...Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya
I love this kind of mentality. It's like saying "Well, I've never had cancer, so it must not exist. Why bother looking for a cure?"
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 01:47
did you ever bother to think some of the problem might be coming from your end...no...it's KK"s fault...DAMN THEM TO HELL THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB!!.
Originally posted by Samhain
I love this kind of mentality. It's like saying "Well, I've never had cancer, so it must not exist. Why bother looking for a cure?"
Nah, hes just saying he belives KK can pull through, and that your, um.... "not a very nice person" for thinking otherwise...
I think.
Also, Dade, for someone who is asking what the point of my post was, you sure are Captain Useless Comment.
what are these problems people always talk about getting...I don't crash anymore during game play...when I do crash it's when I'm trying to close the game after I've been alt+tabbing a bunch...I don't really get gfx errors anymore xcept that time I d/l those new nvidia drivers...all in all my game play xperience is quite smooth
Great. You don't have any problems. I'm very happy for you. Again, this is like someone saying "Somebody help, my kidneys have failed!" and you saying "Well, my kidneys have never failed."
Good job.
Gotterdammerung
15-02-04, 01:50
I empathize with your anger and though there could have been better ways to express yourself there is really nothing in the thread thats against forum rules *except* i edited out "fucking" from the title.
As long as you keep a somewhat cool head and don't get personally vulgar or vile there shouldn't be a problem
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 01:51
haha...that's one way to look at it Opar...my thinking is...why has he been around since Aug. 2k2 or whatever if he has such a problem...and you know what...after his bitch here he'll probably still be around...why? maybe he's just a bit masochistic...maybe he just likes to bitch...but they've promised a lot with doy so I figure I'll wait around and see...yeah there's a lot of things that irritate me with this game and some things I think could be done different...but I stay because I like it...I think if I had a bitch like his I'd probably wonder off to find something new to play
did you ever bother to think some of the problem might be coming from your end...no...it's KK"s fault...DAMN THEM TO HELL THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB!!.
How can it be my fault? Oh, maybe because I pressed the arrow keys with numlock in the wrong spot, and it caused the game to crash? Yeah, that's my fault. I shouldn't hit those keys. Wait a second - name me one other game that crashes when you hit a certain key? That doesn't exactly build credibility on KKs part for their software being stable.
My system is rock solid. I have tested, and tested, and tested, and it's fucking solid. Prime95 for a week straight, memtest86 for the same. This system is not unstable. At all. If KKs software is incompatable with this hardware, IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY.
Nah, hes just saying he belives KK can pull through, and that your, um.... "not a very nice person" for thinking otherwise...
No, I never said I don't think KK can pull through. I said if they fail to neglect this software and release DoY saying "ok, everything is fixed, just give us some more money", they can fuck off. I want this shit to be fixed BEFORE I go buying more of their software.
well dunno if hes talking specifically about tonight, but the lag has been discraceful getting ping of 1000+ at times
Pffft, copbots work for shitty admin, I don't like them.
Stupid city.
BTW captain 'maybe it's you'. I sit on ventrilo and during op wars, and the thing I think I hear most of anything is 'Oh, shit, fataled'.
You shouldn't fatal, I don't fucking care what setup your computer has. Honestly, KK should make a program that adapts, like everyone else. Not one that you have to set up your computer perfectly in order to run. Sorry, thats just bull.
DarkOmen
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
I empathize with your anger and though there could have been better ways to express yourself there is really nothing in the thread thats against forum rules *except* i edited out "fucking" from the title.
As long as you keep a somewhat cool head and don't get personally vulgar or vile there shouldn't be a problem
I made a post about how he should speakar.... can i be a mod now? Beeyawahahah.
I empathize with your anger and though there could have been better ways to express yourself there is really nothing in the thread thats against forum rules *except* i edited out "fucking" from the title.
Sorry, I thought it automatically replaced fucking with f**** or whatever on the thread list.
why has he been around since Aug. 2k2 or whatever
I registered on the forums a long time ago. My account has only been active for a few months.
edit/
look how much I post. do you really think I'd have 138 posts if I've been playing the game since august 2k2?
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 02:00
Could be...I have a friend who's been playing as long or longer than me...met him during beta 4...he's posted on the forums about 4 times...so yes...I think you could have posted only that much since then...
You say you've tested your system...but on other games...NC might not run xactly like those games...find a game that runs in the xact way that NC does...and test it then...see if you still get the fatals, crashes, etc...and then you will have tested...Asheron's Call doesn't run the xact same as NC...that runs fine on my comp...that does not mean that NC will run fine...NC runs fine on my comp but AO runs like poop...you can't compare totally different games and call that a test...you can only say well, that may run alright because this similar game does...
edit: forgot to say...KK knows that NC runs like shit for a lot of people...I think that's partly why they're changing the way it runs a bit in DoY (wish I understood a lot about games and comps better so I could xplain what I'm meaning to say a bit better :p )
Could be...I have a friend who's been playing as long or longer than me...met him during beta 4...he's posted on the forums about 4 times...so yes...I think you could have posted only that much since then...
Yes, and he doesn't post on the forums very much. I said, look how much I post. As in, just in this little time, I've made many posts. I am a very active person when it comes to forums, and if I'd actually been around since 2k2 I'd probably be arond 2000 posts. Not 138.
You say you've tested your system...but on other games...
No, I tested it with the most rigorous stress test software available. Do you understand? Stress test. As in the kind of shit people do when they need systems to be up 99.99% of the time.
NC might not run xactly like those games...find a game that runs in the xact way that NC does...and test it then...see if you still get the fatals, crashes, etc...and then you will have tested...
Alright, I appreciate your effort here to think like this, but I have been developing software for a few years now, especially game-related stuff, and you can't say NC "runs' like a game. When you break it down, they're all the friggin same.
Asheron's Call doesn't run the xact same as NC...that runs fine on my comp...that does not mean that NC will run fine...NC runs fine on my comp but AO runs like poop...you can't compare totally different games and call that a test...you can only say well, that may run alright because this similar game does...
yes you can. an opengl game is an opengl game. a d3d game is a d3d game. I've been building computers since I was 8, and I've been a gamer for about that long too. I've never had a game crash like this - and if one did, it was fixed in a patch a week later.
im not playing anymore for a few of the things that he mentioned, although i wouldnt phrase it in such an abuseive manner, i dont know what they are playing at half the time, i know they havnt got many programmers on the bdoy project, but there is no way if they are working on a day to day basis that they should take this long, and ive given up waiting so im takeing a nose dive back into real life starting to do kendo again and pass my mutha fucking driveing test (still havnt even had any lessons and im friggin 18)
so the morale of the story is, people are going to say what the want to say, you can argue your point of veiw, you are going to see fan boys, anarchistic hate breed posts and your average joe posts, who is to say that anyone is wrong? free thinking, liberal minds should be at work here, and im glad to see a few people are open.
But the facts speak for themselves, im not prepared to play ball anymore, they can have your money but they arnt getting anymore of mine until they shape up, although i have to admitt if you compared this last cpl of months to last year, you wouldnt recognise it, we litterally had nothing, no input at all.
anywayz enjoy yourselves, this is a game and there is more to the 5 mins you spend being agrevated by a post to life im sure ;)
~R
and I want to say that a lot of you seem to have taken my post as though I want Neocron to fail. I don't. Neocron is great when it works. The gameplay needs some work, but that is one thing that is expected in MMO games. I [we] know that KK is not a big company, and I tried to get many people in to this game, telling them that yeah, it is a little buggy, but KK is a small company and what they've done is impressive for that. I even offered to let a few friends use my credit card for payment, and I even offered to pay for DarkOmen's little brothers subscription. By all means, I want NC to succeed. But we all have a point at which we have had enough - I am nearing that point and I believe the rest of the community aside from flagrant fanboys are too. We have given Neocron more patience than any other game has ever seen. KK hasn't bothered to talk to the community about the state of the game very much. What's the deal? As it was just said, most companies get their act together and have things fixed. Honestly, how many people work at KK, and in the words of Bob and Bob from Office Space, what, would you say, you DO there? With a group of 3 guys working 20 hours a week in the programming department, those bugs should have been fixed in about 2 weeks.
What's the problem? I've said in another post, I'm sure the community would help if you asked. There's got to be some talented individuals here that would like to see this game survive and would chip in. Myself included. I practice what I preach and I'd sign any NDAs/legal documents you wanted me to, and I'd help with bug fixes [edit: for free of course]. I doubt you'll ever actually take me up on this offer, hell, I doubt that they'll even read this, but my point is that if they wanted the help, I'm sure they could get it.
sanityislost
15-02-04, 02:39
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
[edited for violation of the forum rules - save you the effort, mods]
sanityislost
15-02-04, 02:42
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
are doing there jobs by patching it and working on doy with a new engine which should fix most of the bugs kk>u
they aren't doing their jobs, that's the point you ignorant half-wit. and the release of a NEW ENGINE that we have to PAY FOR that is going to fix the bugs for something we've ALREADY PAID FOR is not acceptable. you might be a mindless consumer whore, but I am not. I wont pay for shit from this company until they make what I already paid for worthwhile.
kk>u
People who don't talk like losers who play counterstrike and/or people who use AOL > you
Although I don't agree with the thread starter's comments, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions.
Leave the personal comments out of it Sanityislost.
To me, the bugs are an annoyance. Nothing more.
Just my opinion :p
sanityislost
15-02-04, 02:50
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
I don't experience many of these bugs. I haven't seen a FRE message in months. I do crash rarely when using the citycom, that's it. When I sync out it's network stuff of my end, and I can tell because it happens when my bro is playing NC at the same time.
KK are trying to get these issues sorted. They are considering using a different provider for their servers (currently they are using level3, and they don't seem to be very good).
At the end of the day, being a 'paying customer' only gives you the right to stop paying and quit, nothing more.
Gotterdammerung
15-02-04, 02:52
The one thing i stressed just 1 page ago was do NOT get personally vulgar & vile if you want to keep this open.
get with the program
[edit:] you don't seem to be actually reading my posts. I already said I *like* Neocron and I *want it to succeed*. [edited for violation of the forum rules]
Originally posted by Scikar
At the end of the day, being a 'paying customer' only gives you the right to stop paying and quit, nothing more.
Straight down to the sad sour skinny.
Well played Scikar!
gg nextmap
The right to stop paying is a powerful one. You don't care, intelligence-er, sanity-islost, doesn't care, but if KK expected to stay in business, they should care.
Gotterdammerung
15-02-04, 02:58
I can see Nid throwing a few 3 day'ers to 2 people if they don't shape up. Continue your pissing contest via PM's if you want but leave it off the forum
sanityislost
15-02-04, 02:58
ok changed it lol was being evil
Originally posted by Samhain
I don't care about DoY. I haven't paid for DoY. I have paid for Neocron - and you know what I got in return? Shit. I didn't get a game. I got a buggy piece of software that makes Windows look like a triumph.
I'm not interested in what the expansion pack apologists have to say. I should not have to pay AGAIN to get something that more closely resembles a game than what I originally threw my money down for and recieved.
This is utter fucking bullshit. Your servers are laggy, your software is a heap of shit and your gameplay is all over the place.
I guess the predominant question to the development team is: Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to make a video game?
Apparently fucking not.
I'm sick of this shit. If this piece of crap is not sorted out soon, you can count on me not buying the rest of the features that should have been in Neocron from the start that you are now lumping in an expansion pack to pay for the fact you've got your thumbs up your asses.
PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS. Do you fucking understand that? It may not be much money individually, but people are still putting their hard-earned money on the table for something that doesn't even fit standards to be called a fucking BETA. Sure, we can stop paying at any time - but the real avalanche of shit and bugs doesn't really appear until after you've played for a while.
And now, enter all sorts of people saying "well the game works for me! you just have to rub your head, pat your tummy and play with your feet so it wont crash!" etc. etc. etc:
Its so true, it makes me want to cry. The only people playing this game right now are people that ENJOY the people they play with, and live with the games MANY, MANY problems because they don't want to switch games and leave thier online friends behind.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
All I hope is that this new company, 10tical or whatever, knows how to market a game properly and knows how to deal with customers properly. Because simply put, KK doesn't.
Originally posted by Samhain
The right to stop paying is a powerful one. You don't care, intelligence-er, sanity-islost, doesn't care, but if KK expected to stay in business, they should care.
We pay to access the virtual world of neocron.
If you don't like it, stop payin'.
Best advice I can give you - aside from 'let them do their job, things will be settled eventually'.
sanityislost
15-02-04, 03:02
lol Marx your poo fetish scares meh....Meep Meep
Well maybe if u Gave KK a chance to get the game sorted AFTER Doy comes out, i might just think about giving a feck what the hell you think.
If you don't care what I think, then don't post in my thread. You're basically giving me shit for saying what's on my mind, yet somehow you think it's okay for you to say what's on your mind.
My point is that it's silly to expect people to pay to fix something that they paid to begin with. If I sell you a car, that, under all sales pretences, is assumed working (that is, it's a new car, not a used 'as-is' car), and then it doesn't work, basically, what you're saying, is a reasonable person would gladly pay the car company more money to have the car fixed. To "give them a chance" to get it straightened out. No dice, in my books.
We all know about the bugs and we are all paying for the game. Some of us have decided to give KK a chance to get it all sorted instead of making post about crap everyone already knows, the rest well i think they left and thats there loss..well some are coming back and thats chilled to see
KK has had plenty of chances to fix things, and they still have a bit more of a chance BEFORE the release of DoY (which to answer your erased questions, is *why* I am still a paying customer. because I am GIVING them that chance)
And apparently many of you don't 'know' about the bugs, because they are claiming they don't happen/exist.
We pay to access the virtual world of neocron.
If you don't like it, stop payin'.
We pay for a service that is not being given as described.
Best advice I can give you - aside from 'let them do their job, things will be settled eventually'.
And this again is my point. Where's the line? This game has been out for a long time now, and it's been through beta, which is where most of these bugs should have been killed. But they weren't. So we put up with it through retail. Lots of apologists said, just wait, a patch is coming, yeah yeah... now those same apologists (or those with the same mentality) are saying DoY will solve everything. And what if it doesn't? Will you THEN cancel your subscription? Is it THEN enough? Where do we draw the line? And we all draw it at a different spot. This thread has stated where I am drawing my line, and I am wondering if anyone else was drawing it at the same place.
It would be nice if we could get a statement from KK, because honestly, I'd like to know, why there are so many bugs still. I want to know, do you have 3 programmers? Do they actually come to work? How long? 4 hours a day, 5 days a week? 60 man hours a week and you can't get something done? I just cant concieve a reasonable excuse for Neocron to be the way it is. One person working full time should have been able to sort this out.
Originally posted by Samhain
The right to stop paying is a powerful one. You don't care, intelligence-er, sanity-islost, doesn't care, but if KK expected to stay in business, they should care.
Unfortunately, that argument doesn't hold water, since KK are doing quite well financially it would seem.
But it is a fair point.
The thing is, you act as though KK deliberately neglect the game and actively make it worse. If you check the patch notes you can see that the devs are working on them. There have been a lot of crash bugs fixed recently, and the age old I can't see fuck on the subway with my ATi card bug has been fixed. The devs can't just snap their fingers and make all the bugs go away, especially when people are crying out at the same time for more content, for balance tweaks, etc. etc.
I think it is a natural side effect that using two seperate engines, one made by the devs and the other licensed and then heavily modified, is bound to cause problems, especially when neither engine was made for a MMORPG. It's an unfortunate consequence of KK being a small developer. If you believe the claim (and I honestly can't say I do or I don't) that the original publishers, CDV, forced an early retail release when NC wasn't ready then some of the blame also lies with CDV.
All I'm trying to say really is, perhaps you are being a little harsh. If nothing had been fixed at all since retail launch, if the game literally broke down for every player at login, if there was no feedback at all from the devs and extremely rare patches, then I would be certainly as pissed off as you are. But when you take into account KK's whole situation I think it becomes more understandable. Disappointing yes, but not unexpected.
EDIT: Btw if you think KK aren't providing the service they agreed to in the contract, then that's a serious legal situation. I think you should show some hard facts to back that up before make such a statement. Also, the car analogy is flawed. A car is not a piece of software. It is not expected to be continually updated over time. If you really want to compare it with a car, then don't think just in terms of buying any average car. In this case, you're buying a car which is radical in design and could very well be absolutely fantastic, but the manufacturer is completely new to the scene and has never built a car of its type before. Would you really expect it to be perfect?
Originally posted by Samhain
We pay for a service that is not being given as described.
Can you point out the section of the user contract which guarentees access to a bug free, errorless world? I'm looking and just not seeing it.
=/
And this again is my point. Where's the line? This game has been out for a long time now, and it's been through beta, which is where most of these bugs should have been killed. But they weren't. So we put up with it through retail. Lots of apologists said, just wait, a patch is coming, yeah yeah... now those same apologists (or those with the same mentality) are saying DoY will solve everything. And what if it doesn't? Will you THEN cancel your subscription? Is it THEN enough? Where do we draw the line? And we all draw it at a different spot. This thread has stated where I am drawing my line, and I am wondering if anyone else was drawing it at the same place.
It would be nice if we could get a statement from KK, because honestly, I'd like to know, why there are so many bugs still. I want to know, do you have 3 programmers? Do they actually come to work? How long? 4 hours a day, 5 days a week? 60 man hours a week and you can't get something done? I just cant concieve a reasonable excuse for Neocron to be the way it is. One person working full time should have been able to sort this out.
Frankly, I have no problems with the world as put forth by Reakktor and happily pay (cheaply) per month for access to a game which I greatly enjoy. There are numerous others like me.
I'm sorry, none of the bugs we've experienced so far are crippling, and those of which that have popped up in the past, have been fixed quickly by removing the erroneus item.
well I'm glad you've had a good experience. Neocron crashes about 4-5 times an hour for me. That's 4-5 times more often than any product that someone is charging for should.
the front page should look more like:
Neocron is the world's first and only MMOFRE (Massively Multiplayer Fatal Runtime Error) that brings you a dense Cyberpunk atmosphere and crashes when you press the arrow keys. It is also the first MMORPG that looks, feels and is almost as easy to play as a 3D first person shooter, but doesn't run nearly as smooth.
Play with (and against) a few dozen players online in the post apocalyptic world of the 28th century, if you aren't stuck in sync. You become a citizen of one of the last mega cities on Earth (Neocron) and it is up to you whether you want to experience exciting adventures that cause you to crash and die in the middle of combat, or just lead a normal life in this virtual world - while getting killed by exploiters despite having an LE in. Click here to download an offline demo of Neocron to feel the atmosphere of the game and get to know the intuitive and easy to use game interface, before forking out your money and realizing that our servers can't handle the load and your ping will be four digits...
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 03:16
in reference to scikar or some such name I always misspell:
The idea of a publisher rushing a developer to get the game out on the date the publisher decides is a good one is by no means a stretch of the imagination, and it happens to a lot of MMO's...NC should have gone thru another 2 or 3 months of beta atleast to get some things cleared up...if CDV did rush the release then a lot of the blame would fall to them as once a game is in retail I would imagine that it is much harder to get the bugs and such sorted when you have to try to keep as many people happy as possible...people want content...people want items working/dropping properly/people want this and people want that and in the end you have to do as much of each as you can each time you release a patch...I'd rather have little amount of each getting done each patch than focus on any one thing and miss out on all the rest for who know's how long...
edit:
samhain...what vid card/drivers are you using?
Originally posted by Samhain
well I'm glad you've had a good experience. Neocron crashes about 4-5 times an hour for me. That's 4-5 times more often than any product that someone is charging for should.
Whilst for me I get maybe once on a bad day.
Damned erroneus code makes it crash on your comp but not on mine!
:mad:
edit:
samhain...what vid card/drivers are you using?
Radeon 9500 non-pro. I've tried it with almost every ATi driver available, and I've also tried it modified to a 9700, and not modified. (No, I didn't solder the resistor, it's just a matter of installing new drivers, so I didn't tamper with anything).
Dade Murphey
15-02-04, 03:26
hmm...have you tried entirely unistalling and reinstalling NC or running the file check to make sure you don't have any screwed up files?
Also I find NC runs much better with the older drivers that came with my card than it did with the newest drivers available...dunno
Originally posted by Samhain
well I'm glad you've had a good experience. Neocron crashes about 4-5 times an hour for me. That's 4-5 times more often than any product that someone is charging for should.
Have you actually spoken to helpdesk about it? Have you done anything at all to try and rectify the problem?
The simple fact is, some people, myself as an example, experience none of these crashes, yet others, such as yourself, do. So there is clearly something in the difference between our systems, not in the game itself. To complain that the game doesn't run perfectly on every system, using 2 separate engines, neither of which were designed to run a MMORPG on, is a little unfair IMO, especially when you have done nothing to help rectify the problem.
And again, seeing as you still don't seem to have gotten the point, if you don't like it, don't pay for it. Nobody is forcing you to pay, and you are not being deceived. You know the game has bugs. Therefore if you pay for it next month you can't exactly claim you didn't think it would have any, can you?
It really is unreasonable to think that just because you pay some money (pittance compared to other MMORPGs) that you should receive some executive treatment and elicit a response from the devs. Especially considering a lot of the information you are asking for is already on these boards, if you would care to run a search for it.
I paid money for my computer. If a component outright didn't work, then clearly the manufacturer is not fulfilling their side of the sale and I can make a complaint. But, if it's simply not what I expected, i.e. I bought a Radeon 8000 thinking that because it's number is bigger than a GF FX 5600 it would be better, that's not the manufacturer's fault. I can't ring ATi up and say "Hey I paid for this, why doesn't it run perfectly on DX9 games and outperform the GF FX 5600? I want you to fix it now and improve it, and I want an official statement from a senior director!"
Saito Hajime
15-02-04, 03:34
sorry i couldnt get all the way thru this. so if I am repeating some one elses post, sorry.
I cant belive this thread is even goin on this long. Suprised gott didnt jump on it as hard as he did mine.
Look, whoever you are that started this bag o crap thread.
If you dont like the game quit.
If you think you can make one better, do so.
I mean, is someone sitting there holding a gun to your head to play this game? If not I suggest you stop before you hemorrage.
then after stopping
smoke a joint
eat some fruit loops
and take a dump.
you'll feel much better I promise
A lil tip from your Uncle Saito.
Originally posted by Scikar
-ownage-
damn, scikar knows this map, no fair!
This is utter fucking bullshit. Your servers are laggy, your software is a heap of shit and your gameplay is all over the place.
I guess the predominant question to the development team is: Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to make a video game?
Apparently fucking not.
I own three copies of Neocron - two US, one UK. They seem to have managed to not only write a game, but get it published and into the retail channel long enough for me to buy it.
What have you done lately?
I'm sick of this shit. If this piece of crap is not sorted out soon, you can count on me not buying the rest of the features that should have been in Neocron from the start that you are now lumping in an expansion pack to pay for the fact you've got your thumbs up your asses.
If you are so irritated by NC, don't play it and don't pay for it. No one is forcing you to...
We pay for a service that is not being given as described.
I don't know about you, but I pay for access to a persistent virtual SciFi world set in the far future. The servers are up almost round-the-clock minus occasional maintenance, my client rarely crashes, and so far my characters have persisted for over 16 months *knocks on wood*.
What did you think you were paying for?
The only people playing this game right now are people that ENJOY the people they play with, and live with the games MANY, MANY problems because they don't want to switch games and leave thier online friends behind.
Not true. I play the game because I enjoy the game itself. The people are secondary for me. Considering that I play in the wee hours of the morning, EST time (GMT -5), and I prefer my server when the population is below 100, I'd say I've some proof to back up my claims that I play for the game, not the people.
If one doesn't like NC, warts and all, one shouldn't play it. Negative reenforcement usually doesn't help anything.
hmm...have you tried entirely unistalling and reinstalling NC or running the file check to make sure you don't have any screwed up files?
Also I find NC runs much better with the older drivers that came with my card than it did with the newest drivers available...dunno
Well, I reformat every 2 weeks, so I'm due up - I'll try the drivers off the CD for a laugh. And yes, I run the file check and I reinstall NC every time I reformat. I've tried downloading it several times too, to make sure my download isn't corrrupt.
It really is unreasonable to think that just because you pay some money (pittance compared to other MMORPGs)
Eh? this costs me $13 a month
So there is clearly something in the difference between our systems, not in the game itself.
This is a false assumption. It's possible that the optimizations / implimentation of the graphics API are incompatable with my hardware, which is not my fault. If you buy a printer, and it doesn't say it's incompatable with WinXP, you have every right to return it
What have you done lately?
Poor reasoning, if you can even call it that. Daikatana was also published, does that make it a good game? If you say yes, please, kill yourself. Also, I guess since you've never built a piece of hardware from the PCB up, you're not able to criticize the performance of one graphics accelerator to the next? The next time you go to comment saying that some piece of hardware is better than the other, stop yourself, because you've never designed a microprocessor, so you can't judge! Nice logic.
If you are so irritated by NC, don't play it and don't pay for it. No one is forcing you to...
And please, stay out of my thread if all you've got to say is drivel like this. I want NC to succeed probably more than you do. I've said if it doesn't get fixed soon, I wont pay for it. How is responding with "if you don't like it don't pay for it" an intelligent response? I already SAID I wasn't going to. Christ, it's not that fucking difficult to comprehend.
I agree, KK needs to get its act together with this laggy shit and they need to add to the gameplay ASAP. What's been added since day 1 of retail? not all that much.
Originally posted by Samhain
Eh? this costs me $13 a month
Costs me 9.95 USD.
Prices in US dollars.
Final Fantasy XI
12.95/month
Additional Character: $1.00/month per character
Tetra Master: $1.00/month
Anarchy Online
14.95/month
Star Wars Galaxies
14.99/month
Asherons Call 2
11.95/month
Shadowbane
12.95/month
Eve
12.95/month
Dark Age of Camelot
12.95/month
Ah, I see, so a few less dollars a month means the software doesn't have to work. Cool. So if I sell my game on the shelf for 30% less than all the other games, it doesn't have to play smooth. Is this linear? I mean, if I charge 50% less, can I get away with the game not even starting? Good bussiness tactic.
Originally posted by Marx
Costs me 9.95 USD.
Prices in US dollars.
Final Fantasy XI
12.95/month
Additional Character: $1.00/month per character
Tetra Master: $1.00/month
Anarchy Online
14.95/month
Star Wars Galaxies
14.99/month
Asherons Call 2
11.95/month
Shadowbane
12.95/month
Eve
12.95/month
Dark Age of Camelot
12.95/month
Ultima Online: In Por Ylem
1200 average client count
relatively lag free (better then neocron tbh)
helpfull GM's that respond within minutes
0.00/month
Now THAT is competition brotha's
Originally posted by Samhain
Ah, I see, so a few less dollars a month means the software doesn't have to work. Cool. So if I sell my game on the shelf for 30% less than all the other games, it doesn't have to play smooth. Is this linear? I mean, if I charge 50% less, can I get away with the game not even starting? Good bussiness tactic.
Hey, the software works fine for me. So lets stop with the 'the software is inept' shit. Just because there's some sort of conflict on your computer doesn't mean the people who made the game are at fault.
Originally posted by Marx
Hey, the software works fine for me. So lets stop with the 'the software is enept' shit. Just because there's some sort of conflict on your computer doesn't mean the people who made the game are at fault.
Yes it does. Please don't be ignorant. THis game crashes 2-3 times a day minimum for me. Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Warcraft 3, Half-Life, etc.etc.etc i could go on for pages NEVER CRASH FOR ME.
NEVER.
My computer is fine. Yet this game crashes. Yes it is the software creators fault when the game crashes on ANYONES computer. Proof is well coded games like Dark Age of Camelot, for instance, that virtually never crash on anyones computer.
Get a clue Marx, you're wrong. The game screws up, its the creators fault. The customer is always right. And the customer isn't going to live with a buggy piece of software that only works properly on "select" machines. Sorry, maybe thats why the servers are so unpopulated.
TBH marx for someone who thinks charging 2$ less a month for thier game makes it perfectly OK for the game to lag worse then most FREE games, makes your points invalid.
yes it does! if their software does not correctly work with my hardware configuration despite my configuration being verified and tested as being stable and compatable, then THEY. ARE. AT. FAULT. it's their fucking JOB to make sure it works on all platforms *or* specify that it does not work with a certain motherboard, video card, etc. config
Get a clue Marx, you're wrong. The game screws up, its the creators fault. The customer is always right. And the customer isn't going to live with a buggy piece of software that only works properly on "select" machines. Sorry, maybe thats why the servers are so unpopulated.
PRECISELY.
And again, I *love* Neocron. I fucking failed Algebra because while I was supposed to be studying for exams, I was trying to cap my spy. I love this game, I love what it brings to the table, but I am saying that I am at the end of my rope. Neocron is like an abusive spouse. :P
Originally posted by g0rt
Get a clue Marx, you're wrong. The game screws up, its the creators fault. The customer is always right. And the customer isn't going to live with a buggy piece of software that only works properly on "select" machines. Sorry, maybe thats why the servers are so unpopulated.
The game screws up, file a bug report and explain what happened.
Does that happen?
No.
How does one expect them to fix something WHICH ISN'T HAPPENING TO THEM?
Please explain that to me.
And the servers are unpopluated right now because there hasn't been a retail ad for the game in over a year in the states, probably a little under in Europe.
yes it does! if their software does not correctly work with my hardware configuration despite my configuration being verified and tested as being stable and compatable, then THEY. ARE. AT. FAULT. it's their fucking JOB to make sure it works on all platforms *or* specify that it does not work with a certain motherboard, video card, etc. config
See above.
And the servers are unpopluated right now because there hasn't been a retail ad for the game in over a year in the states, probably a little under in Europe.
word of mouth is a powerful tool. advertising is shit to begin with and you can't blame that for the reason the servers are barren. there are businesses that operate soley on word of mouth, and work well.
The game screws up, file a bug report and explain what happened.
Does that happen?
No.
How does one expect them to fix something WHICH ISN'T HAPPENING TO THEM?
Well, apparently, *everyone* knows about these bugs (according to SIL) and if I was to file a bug report every time the game screwed up I would spend all fucking day doing so. Why am I paying KK to be a beta tester?
Originally posted by Marx
The game screws up, file a bug report and explain what happened.
Does that happen?
No.
How does one expect them to fix something WHICH ISN'T HAPPENING TO THEM?
Please explain that to me.
And the servers are unpopluated right now because there hasn't been a retail ad for the game in over a year in the states, probably a little under in Europe.
See above.
Ok ill explain.
I never sent a bug report in for any game in my life. Any game. I have played Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot when it comes to MMORPG's. All 3 games run absolutely flawlessly on my computer. I am the customer. I choose that I do not wish to spend my free time filing bug reports, aka WORKING to help the game. Sorry, I don't work for things that I pay for. I pay for Neocron, im not going to WORK for KK and pay them money at the same time.
If KK wants to give ME 10$/month, then yeah ill sit here all day and send detailed reports in every time the game fucks up. But sorry pal....no bid on this one.
Again...played multiple MMORPG's that run perfect, lagfree, crashfree....never submitted a bug report.
So I dunno how these "magical" companies made thier games work perfect without my help, but somehow they did. Wow. Magic.
Originally posted by Samhain
word of mouth is a powerful tool. advertising is shit to begin with and you can't blame that for the reason the servers are barren. there are businesses that operate soley on word of mouth, and work well.
Well, apparently, *everyone* knows about these bugs (according to SIL) and if I was to file a bug report every time the game screwed up I would spend all fucking day doing so. Why am I paying KK to be a beta tester?
Exactly. And Neocron's word of mouth reputation is HORRIBLE at this time. Im scared to bring Neocron up in the presence of my friends that used to play this game and don't anymore. Why? Because every time they ask me whats wrong with my brain that makes me dish out 10$ a month for, what is in thier opinion, the most buggy mmorpg available to date.
EVeryone does know about the bugs. Everyone. And until they are fixed, Neocron's reputation will never get better.
Originally posted by Samhain
word of mouth is a powerful tool. advertising is shit to begin with and you can't blame that for the reason the servers are barren. there are businesses that operate soley on word of mouth, and work well.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Word of mouth is great, but seeing as the two largest MMO player groups are North Americans and Asians, how will they get word of mouth from those Europeans?
Advertising is a necessity. If it had been done properly, we wouldn't be having half these problems.
Well, apparently, *everyone* knows about these bugs (according to SIL) and if I was to file a bug report every time the game screwed up I would spend all fucking day doing so. Why am I paying KK to be a beta tester?
How about this, how about everytime someone encouters a FRE, they write a bug report as to what they were doing when it occured, possible software hardware glitches etcetera and send it in?
Then KK would be swamped with e-mails and ingame complaint tickets explaining what happened - then their programmers might find a single link among them and fix it.
If that actually happened, things would be easier on us and them. But as it stands now, most people just seem to enjoying bitching instead of taking action.
[edit]
So I dunno how these "magical" companies made thier games work perfect without my help, but somehow they did. Wow. Magic.
They either a.) had previous experience, or b.) their finacial livelyhood is based solely on the success of the game.
Sadly in this case, neocron doesn't seem to have either of those issues.
There are many things in this game that are quite anoying.
but through it all, i will remain, why, because i like this game.
Oh Holy God Marx, please bless me and tell me how Magical companies like Origin Systems make games that don't crash more then once a month at the most without me sending in bug reports.
Please...enlighten me. And enlighten KK as well.
Originally posted by g0rt
Oh Holy God Marx, please bless me and tell me how Magical companies like Origin Systems make games that don't crash more then once a month at the most without me sending in bug reports.
Please...enlighten me. And enlighten KK as well.
See above.
^^
edit - I've never sent in a bug report to KK, nor have I ever been crippled.
So your experience with Origin is much like mine with Neocron at the current.
Originally posted by Marx
How about this, how about everytime someone encouters a FRE, they write a bug report as to what they were doing when it occured, possible software hardware glitches etcetera and send it in?
Then KK would be swamped with e-mails and ingame complaint tickets explaining what happened - then their programmers might find a single link among them and fix it.
If that actually happened, things would be easier on us and them. But as it stands now, most people just seem to enjoying bitching instead of taking action.
[edit]
They either a.) had previous experience, or b.) their finacial livelyhood is based solely on the success of the game.
Sadly in this case, neocron doesn't seem to have either of those issues.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, theres one small issue here.
If I crashed and sent a bug report every time I did, then each time I zip up those 8 files to send off to ReaKKtor, I would lose half my playing time.
Not nessesarily bitching, just stating a fact.
Originally posted by Zanathos
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, theres one small issue here.
If I crashed and sent a bug report every time I did, then each time I zip up those 8 files to send off to ReaKKtor, I would lose half my playing time.
Not nessesarily bitching, just stating a fact.
Whilst that is true - some sacrifices must be made if one truly wants to accomplish something.
If you want the game fixed and don't want to quit, you have to make your stand.
If you don't want to bother, fine - but don't be suprised if nothing ever changes.
i cant be bothered to read the usual stupidness some of these forum posters bring here,
all i have to add is that i agree with the thread starter 110%.
the more they patch the more i FRE. the single most frustrating thing of this whole game.
If there were psi monks in that "other german produced neocron ripoff mmo", I would leave this poorly constructed game behind.
Why should I have to pay for something that fixes bugs in code that I have already paid for?
If it werent for my clan I would be in FFXI. The one thing that keeps me here is the thought of all the endless hours I spent capping 4 characters and the friendships I have made in my clan.
Yes, I pay to chat. OP war lag, random synchs and FRE's due to there being 30+ people in one fight is pure garbage. OP warring is the only thing I still like about this game. Now that with every patch that is getting worse, I find myself wondering more and more why do I tolerate this shit.
tekktonic engine is crap. Still, I will buy DOY because the whole base of this game is what I am addicted to and. I'm hoping that all the promises we are getting do follow through.
Originally posted by Marx
See above.
^^
edit - I've never sent in a bug report to KK, nor have I ever been crippled.
So your experience with Origin is much like mine with Neocron at the current.
Yeah, and on this Neocron forum there are multiple threads a day complaining about FRE's and lag. Do a forum search and check the polls that have been made as to how many people find FRE's to be a huge problem in Neocron. Its always 70%+ that do.
In Origin's game, no one finds crashing to be a problem. NEver saw a single post about any sort of game-crashing problem.
That and, most people don't even touch this game because its so buggy and crashes so often. So luck you, you and 10+ other people play htis game without problems. So you refuse to see hte problem? You *WANT* this game to eventually be 11 people playing total? YOu and those other 10? You want everyone else gone because you refuse to see the problem?
How do you explain that?
The ignorance some people display on this board...is just astounding.
Originally posted by WebShock
i cant be bothered to read the usual stupidness some of these forum posters bring here,
I know what you're saying WebShock. Somehow I always get stuck arguing with them, trying to get some sense into them. I should just give up I suppose.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
Psycho Killa
15-02-04, 04:20
Theres no excuse for kk not having an auto bug submitter by now.
Originally posted by g0rt
Yeah, and on this Neocron forum there are multiple threads a day complaining about FRE's and lag. Do a forum search and check the polls that have been made as to how many people find FRE's to be a huge problem in Neocron. Its always 70%+ that do.
Actually, the Europeans playing on the american based servers did complain about crashing alot. They were told to hold on, and eventually European servers were brought in.
While there were fewer amounts of 'code-clashes' lets not pretend that they were non-existant.
In Origin's game, no one finds crashing to be a problem. NEver saw a single post about any sort of game-crashing problem.
Origin had a forum for it?
That and, most people don't even touch this game because its so buggy and crashes so often. So luck you, you and 10+ other people play htis game without problems. So you refuse to see hte problem? You *WANT* this game to eventually be 11 people playing total? YOu and those other 10? You want everyone else gone because you refuse to see the problem?
I don't see a problem, because I don't have a problem. If you are having some sort of issue, I whole-heartidly suggest you fill out a bug report to the best of your ability, seeing as only then will the folks at reakktor be able to see exactly what is leading up to or causing these different crashes on different computers.
The ignorance some people display on this board...is just astounding.
A woman notices a small lump on her breast. Several months later she's dead. She could've prevented her problems if she had only worked to alleviate them prior.
:confused:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Theres no excuse for kk not having an auto bug submitter by now.
With this - I agree.
It should've been a top priority.
Originally posted by Marx
Actually, the Europeans playing on the american based servers did complain about crashing alot. They were told to hold on, and eventually European servers were brought in.
While there were fewer amounts of 'code-clashes' lets not pretend that they were non-existant.
Origin had a forum for it?
I don't see a problem, because I don't have a problem. If you are having some sort of issue, I whole-heartidly suggest you fill out a bug report to the best of your ability, seeing as only then will the folks at reakktor be able to see exactly what is leading up to or causing these different crashes on different computers.
A woman notices a small lump on her breast. Several months later she's dead. She could've prevented her problems if she had only worked to alleviate them prior.
:confused:
With this - I agree.
It should've been a top priority.
1. yes, lag is what causes FRE's most of the time in my opinion. so its kk's responsability to do something about it, unless they only want europeans playing this game...which would put them out of business tbh heh
2. yes
3. 70%+ of this game is plagued by bugs, anyone with an IQ over 10 who reads this forum on a daily basis knows this, whether they have problems or not. hell, my entire clan crashes all the time. yes my entire clan. including alts there is 119 members in teh clan, and we ALL crash on a frequent basis...especially at op wars. going into a zone in which we KNOW there are a large amount of enemies, there is about a 30% chance of crashing. i would say about 30% of our squad crashes, every time, going into the zone. sometimes i do, sometimes i dont...but regardless of who does and who doesn't, i would say its always about 30%.
maybe you play one hour a week and only fight warbots for htat one hour...i dunno...but if you don't see other people having problems you need to socialise a bit bro heh. i run a clan, i know when people have problems...because they get pissed on teamspeak...and it happens once every 5 minutes at LEAST in an op fight, someone saying HEAL HEAL HEAL on teamspeak because they just started syncing or they crashed.
this is the kinda thing i see every day, and players like you obviously don't. so instead of trying to sound like you know whats going on, try sparing it.
Originally posted by Samhain
I don't care about DoY. I haven't paid for DoY. I have paid for Neocron - and you know what I got in return? Shit. I didn't get a game. I got a buggy piece of software that makes Windows look like a triumph.
I'm not interested in what the expansion pack apologists have to say. I should not have to pay AGAIN to get something that more closely resembles a game than what I originally threw my money down for and recieved.
This is utter fucking bullshit. Your servers are laggy, your software is a heap of shit and your gameplay is all over the place.
I guess the predominant question to the development team is: Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to make a video game?
Apparently fucking not.
I'm sick of this shit. If this piece of crap is not sorted out soon, you can count on me not buying the rest of the features that should have been in Neocron from the start that you are now lumping in an expansion pack to pay for the fact you've got your thumbs up your asses.
PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS. Do you fucking understand that? It may not be much money individually, but people are still putting their hard-earned money on the table for something that doesn't even fit standards to be called a fucking BETA. Sure, we can stop paying at any time - but the real avalanche of shit and bugs doesn't really appear until after you've played for a while.
And now, enter all sorts of people saying "well the game works for me! you just have to rub your head, pat your tummy and play with your feet so it wont crash!" etc. etc. etc:
lol :lol:
You sir, are a prat.
Go away, leave neocron, and make us all a better game. Go on if you so know how to do things right.
Btw to make this game you must have a limited team of people, limited funding, and ofcourse fuck up with a publisher like reaKKtor did, that way youll see what they went through.
I'd like to see what you coul make out of that oh wise one.
NC is one of the best online MMO's out there, maynot have the best gfx, maynot have the best engine, maynot have the best coding, but for me, its the most enjoyable, and also has the best pvp system out of all the mmo's ...
Poor reasoning, if you can even call it that
It's perfectly valid reasoning. You say KK doesn't know how to write a video game. Apparently, they do, as they did. If you think you know how to implement Neocron's core elements in a better way, feel free to do so.
In your defense, what you probably mean is that they have problems writing a relatively bug-free MMORPG, not that they don't know how to write a video game in general. But that's not what you wrote.
Also, I guess since you've never built a piece of hardware from the PCB up, you're not able to criticize the performance of one graphics accelerator to the next?
I can review benchmarks and make informed decisions, but I can't state that the makers of the card don't know what they're doing. The new XGI Volari may suck in benches, but they do know how to make a GPU, even if it doesn't perform well due to either drivers or hardware...
How is responding with "if you don't like it don't pay for it" an intelligent response?
You're not reading between the lines so I'll spell it out for you: The community/KK in general do not appear to need people venting like spoiled little children. What they seem to need is constructive criticism and bug reports, like they typically ask for. You aren't helping the situation, or if you are helping, you're providing both bug reports and vitrol. I've got news for you - providing one does not entitle you to spew the other.
I want NC to succeed probably more than you do.
I doubt it. I put my money where my mouth is. Two accounts since launch (one's for a friend and I don't use it - at all), one more added in June/July, and I'll probably add a fourth in the near future. All my accounts are long-term, 6 month recurring with no plans to terminate any of them. I pay KK because I want KK to succeed. I even sent in some bug reports during Betas and comment in the Facts threads when a patch goes up. Go me.
What have you done lately, besides bitch like an immature player about a gaming environment/system you don't seem to be the slightest bit interested in trying to understand?
Neocron is not, and never will be, perfect. Very few things in this world are (if any). The question one has to ask oneself is - am I going to try and make it better, or am I going to bitch, whine, moan, complain and make the lives of those that work on Neocron a living hell?
Which do you think this thread attempts to do?
Originally posted by g0rt
1. yes, lag is what causes FRE's most of the time in my opinion. so its kk's responsability to do something about it, unless they only want europeans playing this game...which would put them out of business tbh heh
Yes, It is KK's resposibility to move to a better host to prevent lag. Level3 sucks ass, but it's not exactly the easiest thing to do...
Anyway, It's been declared that they're working on it.
3. 70%+ of this game is plagued by bugs, anyone with an IQ over 10 who reads this forum on a daily basis knows this, whether they have problems or not. hell, my entire clan crashes all the time. yes my entire clan. including alts there is 119 members in teh clan, and we ALL crash on a frequent basis...especially at op wars. going into a zone in which we KNOW there are a large amount of enemies, there is about a 30% chance of crashing. i would say about 30% of our squad crashes, every time, going into the zone. sometimes i do, sometimes i dont...but regardless of who does and who doesn't, i would say its always about 30%.
Just because they know the bugs are there doesn't mean they can root out whats causing it. Especially since not everyone has them. You can't expect them to be able to replicate everything, especially since their experience is limited
maybe you play one hour a week and only fight warbots for htat one hour...i dunno...but if you don't see other people having problems you need to socialise a bit bro heh. i run a clan, i know when people have problems...because they get pissed on teamspeak...and it happens once every 5 minutes at LEAST in an op fight, someone saying HEAL HEAL HEAL on teamspeak because they just started syncing or they crashed.
You play on saturn mainly, yes?
Highest serverload + level3 being shit = synching.
this is the kinda thing i see every day, and players like you obviously don't. so instead of trying to sound like you know whats going on, try sparing it.
If you see it everyday, perhaps you should be sending reports everyday. It would accomplish two things. A.) Let people know something is DRASTICALLY wrong. B.) Give them the data to work with.
In the roughly three hours daily that I manage to scrape up between work and school, the only bugs I encounter are the ATI graphics glitches. Those will be sorted eventually proclaimed several GM's - and don't particularly care about them now.
Occasionally I get the mismatch data bug, which is easily remedied by making the person sit down - forcing a synchronization of data between the computers. This of course is a connection issue, which is also being 'worked on'.
I think I can safely say this.
Your opinion - "These bugs should be handled without player intervention"
My opinion - "Players who experience bugs should report them so as they'll be fixed"
Its obvious these two opinions contradict eachother, as such we'll never agree. So we might as well just stop conversing in this thread; eh?
the only thing that keeps me playing this game are the people i play with. If i were starting out in this game right now, no friends, i wouldnt even have this pos installed on my computer for more than a week. If DoY is a flop, and turns out to be another pos addition to neocron, brings more bugs, more lag, etc. I'm out, and FoMK and Everquest will get my full attention as far as MMORPG's go.
CRAIG DIGGERS
15-02-04, 05:18
Originally posted by Samhain
I don't care about DoY. I haven't paid for DoY. I have paid for Neocron - and you know what I got in return? Shit. I didn't get a game. I got a buggy piece of software that makes Windows look like a triumph.
I'm not interested in what the expansion pack apologists have to say. I should not have to pay AGAIN to get something that more closely resembles a game than what I originally threw my money down for and recieved.
This is utter fucking bullshit. Your servers are laggy, your software is a heap of shit and your gameplay is all over the place.
I guess the predominant question to the development team is: Do you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to make a video game?
Apparently fucking not.
I'm sick of this shit. If this piece of crap is not sorted out soon, you can count on me not buying the rest of the features that should have been in Neocron from the start that you are now lumping in an expansion pack to pay for the fact you've got your thumbs up your asses.
PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR THIS. Do you fucking understand that? It may not be much money individually, but people are still putting their hard-earned money on the table for something that doesn't even fit standards to be called a fucking BETA. Sure, we can stop paying at any time - but the real avalanche of shit and bugs doesn't really appear until after you've played for a while.
And now, enter all sorts of people saying "well the game works for me! you just have to rub your head, pat your tummy and play with your feet so it wont crash!" etc. etc. etc:
sorry but hes right :rolleyes:
yep I agree opti, KK needs to get its act together.
Originally posted by Bl@zed
If i were starting out in this game right now, no friends, i wouldnt even have this pos installed on my computer for more than a week.
thats why client counts suck
and kk thinks everythings fine because some complete idiots on this forum argue that the game is bug free and runs perfectly.
they are trying to ruin the game i see through thier plan :p
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
The one thing i stressed just 1 page ago was do NOT get personally vulgar & vile if you want to keep this open.
get with the program
It would seem that this mod would like KK to see what people really think.
So Ill chip in. Its really starting to get old after playing this game for like a year and still having the same bugs in. Really it does get annoying. It is to the point that many players have little hope that doy will bring little more then more bugs and broken content that wont get sorted till the next year and if even then.
Originally posted by g0rt
they are trying to ruin the game i see through thier plan :p
they are really undercover KK employees, trying to convince and cover up for the bugs, so we keep our account active....its all a conspericy!! :p
Theres no excuse for kk not having an auto bug submitter by now.
They had one. It went "away". I don't recall why.
Yes, It is KK's resposibility to move to a better host to prevent lag. Level3 sucks ass,
I use both Speakeasy SDSL and Verizon ADSL near New York City. Speakeasy, for a long time, would backhaull my traffic to Chicago, then out to Level 3 New York, then over the pond to the UK, then to Germany. This was by design - Speakeasy puts just two hops between SDSL customers and InterNAP, a GSP which peers with 11 major Internet backbones (other GSPs). Just so happens that InterNAP's path to Level 3 was back through Chicago.
Verizon went a few NY-area hops, then direct to to a Level 3 hand-off to the UK, then Germany.
Pings on Speakeasy were in the 120ms range in-game. Verizon was around 100ms in-game. No noticeable difference for either.
For the people with latency problems, have you checked the routing to see how you get from wherever you are to Germany? It's possible you're bouncing around in your ISP's network. It may behoove you to switch to a different ISP, one which has a more direct handoff to the UK. The downside is that to get it, you may have to pay for it - SDSL from Speakeasy starts at $120, so you have to decide - do you REALLY want your NC or not? :-) The upside is that you get a very nice connection to the Internet without your packets boucing around inside your provider's network, and your upload is as fast as your download.
Originally posted by g0rt
thats why client counts suck
and kk thinks everythings fine because some complete idiots on this forum argue that the game is bug free and runs perfectly.
they are trying to ruin the game i see through thier plan :p
Argue it however you want.
I see chronic whiners doing a better job at killing the game then those who have no problems whatsoever.
Who're the ones that bitch about it on other forums? Who're the ones that bitch about it on these forums where other people who're thinking about playing the game can see?
Frankly, I think threads like this should be deleted on sight, seeing as it provides no insight as to the problem experienced, aside from "omg, I crashed".
What, am I supposed to somehow duplicate your exact setup to encounter a glitch just so I could report the bugs?
I can't do it, and neither can KK unless you give the proper information.
Continue beating your head against the wall if you want - but seeing as there's no automatic tracker and its' doubtable the KK staff contains any psychics... The only people shooting the game in the foot are those that experience issues and do nothing.
Oh great...
thanks Marx
thanks alot................
You have compelled me to start sending in the crash files whenever i crash......
yeah.....
thanks :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Marx
Argue it however you want.
I see chronic whiners doing a better job at killing the game then those who have no problems whatsoever.
Who're the ones that bitch about it on other forums? Who're the ones that bitch about it on these forums where other people who're thinking about playing the game can see?
Frankly, I think threads like this should be deleted on sight, seeing as it provides no insight as to the problem experienced, aside from "omg, I crashed".
What, am I supposed to somehow duplicate your exact setup to encounter a glitch just so I could report the bugs?
I can't do it, and neither can KK unless you give the proper information.
Continue beating your head against the wall if you want - but seeing as there's no automatic tracker and its' doubtable the KK staff contains any psychics... The only people shooting the game in the foot are those that experience issues and do nothing.
Sorry, no cookie.
No matter how much you say crap like this, im not working for free. And im certainly not paying to work. And thats why submitting crap is not my deal.
Your argue is KK has no way to fix problems without this. But you are, sadly, extremely wrong. Because there are SO many games out there that run nearly perfectly if not 100% perfectly on ANY system, and those games do NOT require users to send in bug reports.
Games that run perfect out of hte box, and yes theres MANY of them, are proof that you are wrong.
Sorry bro, your argument is proven wrong by hundreds of games on the market. Achieving a bug free game can be done by a good coding team without asking players to submit bugs.
:o
Originally posted by g0rt
Sorry, no cookie.
No matter how much you say crap like this, im not working for free. And im certainly not paying to work. And thats why submitting crap is not my deal.
Your argue is KK has no way to fix problems without this. But you are, sadly, extremely wrong. Because there are SO many games out there that run nearly perfectly if not 100% perfectly on ANY system, and those games do NOT require users to send in bug reports.
Games that run perfect out of hte box, and yes theres MANY of them, are proof that you are wrong.
Sorry bro, your argument is proven wrong by hundreds of games on the market. Achieving a bug free game can be done by a good coding team without asking players to submit bugs.
:o
My argument is not proven wrong based on the number of games blah blah.
1.) Those game makers have more experience.
2.) Those game makers generally have their workers do lots and lots of alpha and beta testing (on differing types of systems) so as they'll know what went wrong and report it proper. Games which rely on open-beta's generally tend to suck seeing as people just do it to play a free game.
:rolleyes:
Wow, you dont' want to work to make the game better. I'm sorry you feel that way. But if you're not going to bother - it still amazes me that you have the nerve to bitch.
Originally posted by Marx
My argument is not proven wrong based on the number of games blah blah.
1.) Those game makers have more experience.
2.) Those game makers generally have their workers do lots and lots of alpha and beta testing (on differing types of systems) so as they'll know what went wrong and report it proper. Games which rely on open-beta's generally tend to suck seeing as people just do it to play a free game.
:rolleyes:
Wow, you dont' want to work to make the game better. I'm sorry you feel that way. But if you're not going to bother - it still amazes me that you have the nerve to bitch.
So according to you, if you order a pizza from a certain pizzaria and it SUCKS, missing topics, tastes like shit and frankly is just horrible, you go back, tell them what they did wrong, and go back there for dinner the next day?
No..what any customer with any SENSE left at all :rolleyes: would simply never go back to that pizzaria. Or should we consider...hrmm maybe they are just low on chefs, and maybe they dont have much experiance making pizza. HAHAHAHA no ones gonna give a flying FUCK about that. They just wont go back to that pizza store, plain and simple.
Get the point?
People play the game, get the bugs, leave and play a bug free game. Thats why client counts suck. You can come up with ALL the excuses you want...amateur dev team, lack of experiance, blah blah blah....no one cares. If these are problems, they are problems MJS has to root out and solve. By hiring better dev's that know what they are doing.
You gotta spend money to make money bro.
The whole lack of experiance, lack of team members, etc is just an old and worthless excuses. People won't say "Oh ok, ill stick around then because I feel bad for kk!" Hah! They will move right along to a bug free, lag free game.
The truth hurts, doesn't it .
Originally posted by g0rt
So according to you, if you order a pizza from a certain pizzaria and it SUCKS, missing topics, tastes like shit and frankly is just horrible, you go back, tell them what they did wrong, and go back there for dinner the next day?
You forget the power of choice. If you're going to keep playing the game, you might as well in the hopes of making it better.
I wouldn't HAVE to go back to the pizzeria, but if I did - I would definately tell them whats wrong in the hopes of getting a better second pizza.
No..what any customer with any SENSE left at all :rolleyes: would simply never go back to that pizzaria. Or should we consider...hrmm maybe they are just low on chefs, and maybe they dont have much experiance making pizza. HAHAHAHA no ones gonna give a flying FUCK about that. They just wont go back to that pizza store, plain and simple.
So you're still playing... why?
People play the game, get the bugs, leave and play a bug free game. Thats why client counts suck. You can come up with ALL the excuses you want...amateur dev team, lack of experiance, blah blah blah....no one cares. If these are problems, they are problems MJS has to root out and solve. By hiring better dev's that know what they are doing.
So by you continuing to play willingly whilst doing nothing makes you part of the problem... Right? Anyway, say what you want, but the community is still plenty strong seeing as there's been no advertisments ANYWHERE in about a year. Most games would be dead after that, no?
Sure, I'd love for them to hire more devs, I won't pretend to know the abilities of them the current to say 'better'. They said that the new engine would solve alot of the current issues, I'm inclined to beleive them.
You gotta spend money to make money bro.
Have fun continuing to spend your money.
Originally posted by Marx
So you're still playing... why?
Not gonna repeat myself.
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90924&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
If you HONESTLY think Neocron has a large player base / community, there is something seriously wrong. I had some people over the other day and I wanted to show my buddy, who plays, some shit in the game. So I went to connect, there were 200 people on saturn...which isn't anywhere near the LOWEST that the client counts get...and he looked at me and said 200 people on one server? why do you play this game? :rolleyes:
I didn't know what to say...I mean I like the game but yah its failing right now, any mmmorpg with a worldmap the size of Neocron's should have AT LEAST double the people playing that the servers have now.
So your next argument - "ya theres probs (you finally admit), but theres a large and tight community here!" is also invalid because this community is SMALL, very SMALL for a mmorpg.
Theres CLANS in certain games that have a community thats basically the same size as Neocron's TOTAL community. Get real bud.
I'm going to respond to some things from previous posts (went away to dinner with my dad and watched a movie) so if some people have already responded to what's been said, sorry:
Word of mouth is great, but seeing as the two largest MMO player groups are North Americans and Asians, how will they get word of mouth from those Europeans?
You're kidding right? This game, is a fucking massively multiplayer ON-LINE GAME. Word of mouth? How's it going to get to player groups on the other side of the globe? Maybe the same way the video game itself is going to get there: the internet.
In your defense, what you probably mean is that they have problems writing a relatively bug-free MMORPG, not that they don't know how to write a video game in general. But that's not what you wrote.
Right, so instead you throw around semantics. Bravo, and hats off to you. Obviously I was exaggerating. It's a literary device. Although, to throw some semantics back in your face: no, they don't know to make a game, seeing as how their product doesn't run properly, and to use my ongoing car analogy, would you say a new company "X" knows how to make cars, if they put together something that stalls constantly and 2 out of 3 explode randomly killing everyone inside? No. So yes, KK made a "game", which is to say, they put together a heap of code. They didn't make a game in the proper sense, and that is ,something highly functional and capable of doing everything it says it can do (that being: run properly)
can review benchmarks and make informed decisions, but I can't state that the makers of the card don't know what they're doing. The new XGI Volari may suck in benches, but they do know how to make a GPU, even if it doesn't perform well due to either drivers or hardware...
Your implying that this ficticious video card works all the time, just slowly - which is to say, the video card still does that it is designed to do. Neocron does not work all of the time, so your analogy is not quite accurate.
The community/KK in general do not appear to need people venting like spoiled little children. What they seem to need is constructive criticism and bug reports, like they typically ask for. You aren't helping the situation, or if you are helping, you're providing both bug reports and vitrol. I've got news for you - providing one does not entitle you to spew the other.
I'll entitle myself to whatever I'd like, and you're not one to tell me I can't bitch, thank you.
I doubt it. I put my money where my mouth is. Two accounts since launch (one's for a friend and I don't use it - at all), one more added in June/July, and I'll probably add a fourth in the near future. All my accounts are long-term, 6 month recurring with no plans to terminate any of them. I pay KK because I want KK to succeed. I even sent in some bug reports during Betas and comment in the Facts threads when a patch goes up. Go me.
I was in the beta. I tell every gamer I know about the game, and I continue to pay. Sure, you may have more accounts than me (which only really proves you have more MONEY than me. but *I'm* the spoiled one). Even if I go as far as to agree with you that you want it to succeed more, I by no means want it to fail.
What have you done lately, besides bitch like an immature player about a gaming environment/system you don't seem to be the slightest bit interested in trying to understand?
I offered to work for free to help fix bugs.
Just because they know the bugs are there doesn't mean they can root out whats causing it. Especially since not everyone has them. You can't expect them to be able to replicate everything, especially since their experience is limited
This is THE. VERY. CONCEPT. OF. A. BETA. TEST.
You play on saturn mainly, yes?
Highest serverload + level3 being shit = synching.
I tend to play when it's 100 or so people.
Its obvious these two opinions contradict eachother, as such we'll never agree. So we might as well just stop conversing in this thread; eh?
No, I will submit bugs to problems that I see highly recurrent. Although mainly they will consist of : Well, I tried to walk outside the TG canyon, and I crashed. There was 50 people on the server, and my system was running a fresh install of windows and Neocron.
the only thing that keeps me playing this game are the people i play with.
Exactly. Theres some awesome people that play this game (shout out to Dr.Aeon on saturn) but there are some serious twats too. When I see people like teh law, I smile, but then I see a lot of things that make this community similar to the CS community and I cry.
This is awful. I state many times that I
-like neocron
-want it to succed
-would help for free if they asked
-am giving them a 'chance' to get their act together [hence the thread title?] but wont wait forever
the response from the oh-so-brilliant community?
-well if you don't like neocron, don't play
-various things implying that i dont want to game to succeed
-'what have you done?'
-tell me to give them a chance
bravo. you all get a slow, slow clap
*clap*
*clap*
*clap*
If you HONESTLY think Neocron has a large player base / community
When I logged on this afternoon, there was a little over 1100 players on all the servers.
5 servers, lets just average 200 and change per. Though not what it used to be, that's nowhere near 'dying'.
I didn't know what to say...I mean I like the game but yah its failing right now, any mmmorpg with a worldmap the size of Neocron's should have AT LEAST double the people playing that the servers have now.
I agree, and if there were boxes still on the shelves and ads still in the magazines, there probably would be. CompUSA no longer carries it retail and is trying to sell it out via the "5 buck bargain bin method" or just throws it out.
So I doubt the population is spurred by 'omg bugs'. Realistically it's spurred by 'wtf is neocron'.
So your next argument - "ya theres probs (you finally admit), but theres a large and tight community here!" is also invalid because this community is SMALL, very SMALL for a mmorpg.
The community here is actually decent sized, with some several (beleive the number was 10? don't recall and can't be assed to look for the post about it) thousand accounts actively being paid for...
It would be bigger if people actually knew what it was.
Theres CLANS in certain games that have a community thats basically the same size as Neocron's TOTAL community. Get real bud.
[edited for violation of the forum rules]
edit
This is THE. VERY. CONCEPT. OF. A. BETA. TEST.
From what I've seen, the reports from the Open beta were rather lacking.
It seems we sow the seeds of our own destruction, no?
200 players per server is pathetic for a mmorpg.
Thats all I got to say.
I say everyone who agrees with me, start sending an e-mail every time something happens. The fucking helpdesk will be flooded.
Originally posted by Samhain
I say everyone who agrees with me, start sending an e-mail every time something happens. The fucking helpdesk will be flooded.
Finally.
:)
Originally posted by Samhain
I say everyone who agrees with me, start sending an e-mail every time something happens. The fucking helpdesk will be flooded.
Doubt they could handle that amount of mail.
Originally posted by Marx
What, am I supposed to somehow duplicate your exact setup to encounter a glitch just so I could report the bugs?
I can't do it, and neither can KK unless you give the proper information.
See there's the problem, the crashes are completely random. I think I've crashed in almost every situation known to neocron. The most common of course is synching, just synching, from any zone to another zone.
Honestly, what would my report say, I crashed going from my apartment to TG, it gave no error save for the fatal error box, wow, work with that.
haha exactly
for a week straight, clicking on 'mail' would crash. without changing a thing, it worked fine.
so what do I tell helpdesk?
uhh, i was doing that thing, with the clicking... and when i clicked? it died.
Haha yeap.
And how about those random sync's into people's apartments.
Maybe upgrading my [insert hardware device here] will fix that one, eh marx? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by g0rt
eh marx? :rolleyes:
Explain to me why I don't crash, eh?
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Samhain
haha exactly
for a week straight, clicking on 'mail' would crash. without changing a thing, it worked fine.
so what do I tell helpdesk?
uhh, i was doing that thing, with the clicking... and when i clicked? it died.
Sure, why not. Would be about as helpful as this thread, right?
Originally posted by DarkOmen
Honestly, what would my report say, I crashed going from my apartment to TG, it gave no error save for the fatal error box, wow, work with that.
Well, other programs running, connection type, things that led up to you moving, processor working? Where you were moving, system specs... There's alot of things you could toss in which might or might not be relevant.
Explain to me why I don't crash, eh?
Because your hardware setup happens to like the hack job they've done of the engines used in this game, and mine does not.
Yeah. they probably hardcoded to many things. Made it too dependant on their own hardware setups, and yours just happens to fall into that category.
Gotterdammerung
15-02-04, 07:48
Some of you guys really need to go to the time-out corner.
Play nice for a while & be civil to each other and NOT bait and you'll get a juicebox.
Forget My Name
15-02-04, 08:08
reaKKtor will never put out a statement on how they chose a shitty engone years ago, which have unfixable problems by todays standards, and how we are now stuck with an extremely shitty, bugged program.
The only reason I PAY for their beta5 product is because I love shadowrun the rpg. If I didn't like futuristic rpgs, I would have left this pile of programing shit 3 weeks after retail.
Samhein and g0rt make points right on the money. You just need to take your blinders off, open your mind a bit, and learn that OTHER people's opinions are actually FACTS.
I was hoping last year that after x amount of time passed of people paying for this beta5, reaKKtor would make this game stable, BUT THEY CANT. Mark my word, they did something at the very begining... chose a bad engine, made some progaming errors, something, that makes it NIGH impossible to simply patch out the FREs and Crashes.... it is just they will never admit it. Cuz people are stupid and will continue to pay for this.
If ffxi had PvP, I wouldnt be here right now.
Originally posted by Forget My Name
The only reason I PAY for their beta5 product is because I love shadowrun the rpg. If I didn't like futuristic rpgs, I would have left this pile of programing shit 3 weeks after retail.
Samhein and g0rt make points right on the money. You just need to take your blinders off, open your mind a bit, and learn that OTHER people's opinions are actually FACTS.
Yeap. The problem some people have is they are the lucky lucky few, and i mean VERY few..noone I personally know lol..that doesn't get many bugs in this game.
But that just isn't neocron for 90% of us. If not 98% of us.
I agree with the some of the thoughts and of course I've my own comments ...
There are bug that have been around since beta that haven't been fixed (ATI finally got fixed! Yeah!) for whatever reason. Irreguardless of reason its bad business not to patch them (although I'm not saying the Devs aren't fixing any bugs, just that they tend to linger)
As far as the person who say's they are the customer and turning in a bug report is 'work' so they won't. Tis a bit short sighted. You think Microsoft pays people to find the bugs in thier programs (say Windows for instance)?
I think its also valid to point out that when your client base is more then you have fingers on your hands its very hard to have all of the same exact hardware configurations that your clients are running your software on.
Of course that doesn't even really touch the tip of the iceberg; then you start getting into software conflicts. No they don't happen as often as they used to but they do still happen.
I also must confess I'm a bit puzzled why the original poster has need to re-install windows so often... If its cause your Windows load is getting corrupted you probably have hardware problems no matter how rock solid an' stable you think it is. (yes yes I read how you've been building computers since you were 8 and you are so much f'n smarter then all the rest of us shmucks, especially those of us who don't crash) Btw, building computers, (or pcbs) isn't that large on the wow factor for me. (tell me you _designed_ and then built pcbs that you used in the computer an I'll be more likely to be impressed)
Anyhow yes KK needs to address the bugs but people have to support the bug squishing process otherwise its lose-lose.
Just for the record I don't crash or get errors except when I've quit the game and not always even then. I do get the sync bug but thats pretty much par for the course.
I wasn't trying to wow you or anyone, mr. smartass, I was simply stating for the record that I am by all means technically competant and know what I am doing. Sure, I've designed my own PCBs and programmed simple microprocessors that run on them, and no, it's not a big deal. Took about 8 hours of work and that included starting with a piece of copper and going from the ground up designing the circuit and writing the assembler code.
I reinstall because I am a heavy tweaker, I'm always messing around with my system to see what I can do to improve performance (so far I've got a setup ghosted that boots windows with only 50MB of memory taken up, as opposed to 250+ on a vanilla install) and I like to start fresh, do something, bench, reinstall, do something, bench, and see the difference.
tell me you _designed_ and then built pcbs that you used in the computer an I'll be more likely to be impressed
sorry, i haven't, and sorry, you're hardly someone i care about impressing.
I think its also valid to point out that when your client base is more then you have fingers on your hands its very hard to have all of the same exact hardware configurations that your clients are running your software on.
And it's also been pointed out that this is WHAT THE BETA TEST IS FOR!
first crash of the night after an hour or so of playing - FREd after casting TL3 heal on myself while hunting firemobs. email dispatched, woohoo.
Yeap. The problem some people have is they are the lucky lucky few, and i mean VERY few..noone I personally know lol..that doesn't get many bugs in this game
yeah man, as dark said, we're on vent together, and going to op fights, you hear at least half a dozen "shit, i fataled"s on the way, just from zoning
no, they don't know to make a game, seeing as how their product doesn't run properly
The proof that they do is sitting on the CDs or in the form of an executable that was used to install Neocron. It may be hard for you to understand, but KK did make a game, It didn't magically appear on shelves by itself.
"running properly" is a matter of opinion. Windows, by your standards "doesn't run properly" by virtue of the constant stream of patches released for it...
Your implying that this ficticious video card works all the time, just slowly
No, I'm stating that the actual XGI Volari lineup (it's a real set of cards/chipsets, Google for yourself), works, but is slow and its drivers are buggy (read: don't render things properly all the time).
and you're not one to tell me I can't bitch, thank you.
I didn't say you can't bitch, I said that submitting bug reports and posting facts in the patch threads does not entitle you to bitch - one does not qualify you to do the other. You can think whatever you like, but paying for NC does not entitle you to swear like a sailor at the devs.
I offered to work for free to help fix bugs.
Putting aside the liability issues, employment laws/regulations, and lack of trust to make someone who has thrown a tantrum a toddler would be proud of into a coder, do you have a resume they find acceptable for working long term on a codebase like Neocron? If they turned you down, then maybe you don't make the cut in their minds, or it's simply not possible to add another person to the dev team. Either way, nothing says you can't assist in other ways.
This is awful. I state many times that I
-like neocron
-want it to succed
-would help for free if they asked
-am giving them a 'chance' to get their act together [hence the thread title?] but wont wait forever
Your thread-starting post is a flame. That's all it is. It does not state you offered to help, it does not state you want it to succeed, and to be honest I douby they "care" about any chances you may give them. Your entire first post is akin tantrum being thrown by a small child.
I, personally, pay to play Neocron, a game that has come a long way from Beta 2. The servers are up almost all the time, I crash less and less as time goes by, The bugfixes and engine improvements come steadily over time, and in general KK appears to be constantly working on NC, a little at a time. Taking into acount the coding staff can be counted on one hand, I'd say NC does quite well and I'm willing to pay for access to this game, even in its current state.
That's really what it comes down to - are you willing to pay for NC in its current state or not? No amount of threats, bitching, screaming, tantrums, or offers to work for free will change that. Neocron is a for-profit enterprise. When it comes right down to it, the only vote that counts is your money. If you pay, KK wins. :-)
robinitnow
15-02-04, 12:51
I was looking up swg and found this on one of there forums
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are a few problems with this game. I'm sure it will offend some of you, but hey argue if you want. It doesn't matter to me.
1. Item loots are broken. There is almost NOTHING to find. Ever!
2. NPC interaction is broken. "der I'm an npc want to kill something?"
3. Mastering 7-10 classes to become a Jedi is broken.
4. PVP is broken. If you don't buff you die first. nuff said
5. Item decay is broken. Paying 150k for new composite gets old, and repairs break all the time.
6. The static battles on Yavin IV are broken. They turned them off, but they still haven't replaced them with anything.
7. The imperial crackdown is broken. You can't even see any storm troopers in many places. I'm not sure why yet. I think most of the rebels players just mow them down.
8. Weapon repair is broken. Master weaponsmiths break too many weapons. Last time I checked items don't explode when you repair them. They just degrade on failure...
9. Player cities have just thinned everything out instead of making the game more dynamic. To top that off everyone is quitting now so you have ghost towns everywhere.
10. Most buildings do nothing. They just take up space. The npc's are brain dead, and theres seldom anything to do in these buildings. Theres no hidden secrets. Theres no treasure. Theres no special quests. Its empty... The skyscrapers aren’t even real. They just look big. You can’t even go “up”.
11. The faction point system is broken. It takes too long to get enough to buy anything good. The rebel armor is garbage. The furniture is useless. Getting a better rank doesn't do much. Converting faction points to xp is usually a waste. You can’t even convert the more tedious xp (ie BH investigation xp).
12. The combat in the game is unbearable unless your buffed. You just get incapped constantly, and even if you have good armor they will just blast your mind. If you wear composite you have to migrate your stats and that cancels a lot of the benefits. This means you have to buff yourself, and that’s just another micro-managing task from hell.
13. After two months the game has nothing to offer. There is little interactivity. The theme parks have horrible items. I don't care if they just fixed them. I'm never doing them again. Who wants to kill another 15 idiots for jabba the hut? Can you spell boring? B-O-R-I…
14. Being a smuggler doesn't mean anything. You don't smuggle anything. The containers you slice don't have anything in them. The magseal containers you find in dungeons are broken all the time.
15. Being a BH is tedious. Once you max LLC you have to get another 800k xp in carbines and pistols. WTF! They are useless weapons compared to the LLC. To top that off the investigation missions send you to the far corners of dathomir so you can speederbike 10000m to kill a mark for 15,000 credits? Huh? Is that fun?!? Oh and you get to pay for travel, and you get to pay for probes, and you get 300 xp each time... um... thats worth it lol
16. There is nothing to find in dungeons. You just run around shooting bats and look at magseal containers you can't open. Wheres the slicer? Oh that’s right he’s back at town fixing screwed composite…
17. The items you do find are stupid. Gungan dice? yay!
18. The TK class is overpowered. Since when is an unarmed class so strong? Who cares if they don't have ranged attacks? All of the creatures you fight just stand next to you anyway. If your a marksman you usually end up with the creature biting you. Mask scent isnt for everyone, and concealed shot only works for riflemen. Moving while shooting is pretty broken also. Your accuracy goes to zero.
19. I can't believe they put a macro feature in the game. People just stand around outside of town and macro for hours, or they use tumble macros, or crafting macros…
20. The game has horrible bugs… Seven months is enough time to fix these. I used to be a game tester. There’s no excuse anymore.
21. The various factions don’t do anything. Who cares if you have –5000 Drall, or –5000 Gungan? It’s not like they can really do anything when your speeding past on a swoop. It just says “You cannot react or attack when driving blah blah blah…”
22. There is so little content in this game. They put in AT-ST’s, but they neglect everything else. Where are all the other imperial vehicles? The game doesn’t even really look like star wars. Where are the imperial shuttles? Where are the AT-AT’s that aren’t static? Why is the Pit of Sarlac so small? Why can’t I go into Ben Kanobie’s house?
23. Theres no blood in this game. Theres no gore. We are player pool of adults. Why have you made it pg-13? I want to see npcs with chopped of heads. I want to mutilate bodies. I want pools of blood. I want darkness. This is war we are talking about here. In Episode 4 Obi-Wan slices of a guys arm, and in episode 5 darth vader cuts of lukes hand.
24. The npc’s never say anything witty. They never make jokes. They just stand there like morons. You can’t even pick fights with them. You can’t kill them and steal their clothing and run around town a la Ultima Online. They should really take cues from other games. It’s not hard.
25. When you kill a storm trooper you should be able to loot everything. I don’t care if it devalues storm trooper armor. Games are more fun when you can loot loot loot. Greed is a motivator.
26. Npc’s almost never “move around” in cities. They just stand. They never talk to each other. Theres not bustle of activity.
27. All my friends are quitting this game. It’s boring. They need to develop more, and spend more time making things. They can’t expect everyone to stay interested in a deadpan environment like this. UO had issues, but they “changed things” constantly. (Dread days, and then order chaos, and then all kinds of other things)
28. Objects aren’t breakable. You can’t blow holes in walls. You can’t break windows. Sometimes if your lucky you can shoot at a base, but it doesn’t even blow up. You just shoot a “flag” in the base. Its ridiculous! Where’s the gratification of DESTRUCTION? Why do they bother putting fusion generators in the base if you can’t blow them up? I want to be able to leave c-4 in the base and run away. BOOM! Hahahah! Glory to the conquerors!
29. What is up with the music? They have the entire movie score at their disposal and they only fit a few lame tracks? WTF?
30. What makes a game good is how fast it moves, and how interactive it is. This game is not only tedious, but it’s empty. Once you learn how it runs there’s nothing else to do. It’s just a school to learn how to play. Once you learn a few things there’s nothing to go on. You just grind stats and maybe become a jedi if you have no life…
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
just tying to put some context on it.
Originally posted by Samhain
Aha, of course Judge, rather than trying to entertain an idea you don't immediately agree with, you'd rather see it censored out. Bravo to you and your open-mindedness.
Open mindedness has nothing to do with it. Do you realise how tired out this topic is? If everyone hates the game so much then why is it doing well financially eh? I also said nothing about what I agreed with or didn't, yes the game is too buggy and laggy but posting it here when there are about 10 topics on roughly the same vein of thought is just unnecessary.
Originally posted by Samhain
And this is going to get me a temp ban you say? Lovely. I don't agree with what KK is doing - so I get removed. Perfect. That's the way to do it.
Firstly, it is their forum which they pay for. There is no such thing as freedom of speech on a moderated forum, personally I'm amazed that they have let it carry on this long because having negative stuff like this on their forums isn't great for business tbh.
Secondly what you are saying wouldn't get you a temp ban, its the way you said it "Fuck you KK, fuck this, fuck that and fuck the other piece of fucking shit".
Kinda have to agree with starter of thread somewhere. Some things like clan war option , or more tradeskill exp (for a lil example) still arnt in game and WTF its not like a total new feature why does it take so long time for a lil fix then...
Not to mention the fre's every fucking time, patch after patch it stays the same when are they gonne sort it out?
@Samhein
If you haven't tried a droner out yet and you feel this anger at this stage, I suggest you don't try one out or you will explode and eventually break something valuable.
Before playing a droner I could live with certain bugs.
However, there are two FUNDAMENTAL bugs with droners:
1. With LE in, you STILL loose SL if hitting a person and the person then dies (if friendly or in hunting zone). This doesn't only apply to AoE weapons but normal ones as well. Happened about 10 times to my week old droner already.
2. Drone launch bug. I don't understand why this bug is still allowed in game. Sometime you just cannot launch. I sometime spend 1-2mins just pressing my fire button in furious anger and when that doesn't even work you have to relog. This bug makes me think of a money back refund policy. Seriously.
It would be nice to get an explanation why the launch bug is still there. It seems as a showstopper bug for the whole weapon class to me?
I agree with the thread starter, I crash few times every hour, everytime I go with my clan somewhere I hear "Crashed" every 5 minutes due to zoning.
My system is stable, actually i cannot remember when was the last time that some other game crashed on my computer.
I reinstall because I am a heavy tweaker, I'm always messing around with my system to see what I can do to improve performance (so far I've got a setup ghosted that boots windows with only 50MB of memory taken up, as opposed to 250+ on a vanilla install) and I like to start fresh, do something, bench, reinstall, do something, bench, and see the difference.
So u dig into the registry, fix the things you THINK are wrong and then come complain a certain program doesnt work??
I dont care how much benchmarks u made tbh, did u try running it of a clean windows install AND standard drivers ever??
However or whatever u call tweaking its still messing up a product.
Originally posted by g0rt
Sorry, no cookie.
No matter how much you say crap like this, im not working for free. And im certainly not paying to work. And thats why submitting crap is not my deal.
Your argue is KK has no way to fix problems without this. But you are, sadly, extremely wrong. Because there are SO many games out there that run nearly perfectly if not 100% perfectly on ANY system, and those games do NOT require users to send in bug reports.
Games that run perfect out of hte box, and yes theres MANY of them, are proof that you are wrong.
Sorry bro, your argument is proven wrong by hundreds of games on the market. Achieving a bug free game can be done by a good coding team without asking players to submit bugs.
:o
BS
Other games depend on testers as well, we got that here on the Testserver, BUT thats seeing its an MMO u CANT fully test the game. HTH do you think patches are created?
Other games have predifined paths, storylines etc. Thats easy testing. This game has more interaction points then all of last years NORMAL computer games put together :rolleyes:
Don't compare a MMO to a normal game, especially the development OF said game this just doesnt hold up. The ingame mechanics are too different to even come close.
You don't wanna help KK improve, fine, don't come here then and whine and nag about how buggy it is then, or put some effort in it and help em out.
Originally posted by Forget My Name
reaKKtor will never put out a statement on how they chose a shitty engone years ago, which have unfixable problems by todays standards, and how we are now stuck with an extremely shitty, bugged program.
The only reason I PAY for their beta5 product is because I love shadowrun the rpg. If I didn't like futuristic rpgs, I would have left this pile of programing shit 3 weeks after retail.
Samhein and g0rt make points right on the money. You just need to take your blinders off, open your mind a bit, and learn that OTHER people's opinions are actually FACTS.
I was hoping last year that after x amount of time passed of people paying for this beta5, reaKKtor would make this game stable, BUT THEY CANT. Mark my word, they did something at the very begining... chose a bad engine, made some progaming errors, something, that makes it NIGH impossible to simply patch out the FREs and Crashes.... it is just they will never admit it. Cuz people are stupid and will continue to pay for this.
If ffxi had PvP, I wouldnt be here right now. FMN, are you sharing your forum account? I'm having trouble reconciling the post above with this one, also from you:
Originally posted by Forget My Name
Sorry reaKKtor for any disrespect we give you, but I cannoty apologise for everyone else on that matter. I hope this community as a whole changes their 'leet' attitude and develops a more proffessional attitutde towards the creators of this game...
Sorry, but KK does the BEST job in any mmorpg ever. I want to see people 'cry' and 'whine' and then see, next patch, their problems get solved in other games. Aint gonna happen. Try going on SWG or Shadowbane forums and ask for a weapon upgrade, or new 'spy' item, or more vehicle ammo.... you wont even get a response. But atleast here, the players DO make a difference...
Did you get that everyone... WE DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE
Even though we get things we regret, like tech drop rates, mob strengthening and class nerfs, atleast WE GET THEM.
Thanks again KK for putting up with our shit, and STILL listening to us and shaping this game to the community's needs. I honestly think DOY would have come out sooner if KK didnt do so many minor changes that we asked for.
•Super|\|ova•
15-02-04, 16:19
Originally posted by Nidhogg
FMN, are you sharing your forum account? I'm having trouble reconciling the post above with this one, also from you:
The first post you quoted is the "shit he is putting up with" as he said in that last quote :lol:
Forget My Name
15-02-04, 17:31
Lets do put it out like this....
Final Fantasy has wonderful servers and beautiful programming. But, the people behind the certains don't listen to its players. You can ask the mods and devs why a certain sword is killing monsters in 1 hit, but they dont listen, and they dont fix.
Neocron has this horrid pre-mechwarrior 2 engine and programming holier than the bible. Yet, the mods and devs listen, and aqdd things WE DONT WANT, which is both good and bad.
So, one game has a wonderful foundation, while the other has horrid foundation yet has wonderful support.
Sure we like our new items and other things that pacify the masses, but what about the FREs and CRASHES and SYNCS???
How can I enjoy any of the positive points that I have about KK when I seem to crash everytime I cast a heal or walk?
Now, you may say that FFxi has the money to be good.... true, but not really... look at swg..... that game makes Neocron look like paradise.... but at least I dont FRE and crash while playing swg, so even though both ffxi and swg are SHIT games, their servers let me enjoy the shit, while Neocron doesnt let you enjoy op wars, walking around, breathing.... .
Sorry if my opinions are not black and white like you would like me to have mr. mod. My opinions are as gray as you can imagine, and unlike mr. Khan, I won't suffer from 2d thinking. I can easily support boths sides of MOST aurguments and care about them both. I am pro life and pro choice. I am pro death penalty and against it. I am pro war and anti war...
oh yeah, I like how you took my opinions on TWO completey DIFFERENT subjects..... one is about the game's foundations as a program and its instability, and the other is about game support and community. Glad to see you using my pro war opinions to counter my anti death penalty opinions....
Forget My Name
15-02-04, 17:33
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
The first post you quoted is the "shit he is putting up with" as he said in that last quote :lol:
no, shit KK puts up with is all these +1 spam posts, let children and such. I fail to see what an educated opinon has to do with 'shit kk has to put up with'. Sorry if you think that anything that isnt dick sucking and a pat on the ass has to be 'shit they put up with'.
A contrary opinion on a complex matter? no, get out of here. people don't agree with me??? no, can't be true!!
Edit- Shit, sorry about the double post, I didnt even know I did that. My Bad. Thank you for the heads up Nid.
Very nice comeback (the first post, that is) and I'm sure everyone appreciates both sides of your argument. I'm just feeling a little cheeky today. :p
N
/edit - double posting is bad m'kay ;)
•Super|\|ova•
15-02-04, 17:59
Originally posted by Forget My Name
no, shit KK puts up with is all these +1 spam posts, let children and such. I fail to see what an educated opinon has to do with 'shit kk has to put up with'. Sorry if you think that anything that isnt dick sucking and a pat on the ass has to be 'shit they put up with'.
A contrary opinion on a complex matter? no, get out of here. people don't agree with me??? no, can't be true!!
Edit- Shit, sorry about the double post, I didnt even know I did that. My Bad. Thank you for the heads up Nid.
Are you disagreeing on the fact that there is noticable difference on your tone of your own voice in your two posts Nid brought up?
Originally posted by Nidhogg
I'm just feeling a little cheeky today. :p
N
Frisky Niddy O_o
Scary...
Forget My Name
15-02-04, 18:04
He brought up two different subjects. One thread response has nothing to do with other. read my earlier post please, I already explained this.
And, 'tone of voice' is VERY subjective on the internet. Try talking to a girl online in a 1 on 1 chat and see what I mean. THere is NO way you can tell what my tone of voice is.
Are you saying it is impossible for me to hate the programming but love the game? To hate the constant changes, but love that we are getting changes at the least? If you anre't saying this, cool. I just wanted to show you I support KK, but I am disgusted with thier choice of game engine, programming, whatever.
ZoneVortex
16-02-04, 03:07
Alright
Just fucking died twice to FREs upon zoning into pepper park 1.
came looking for this thread so i could fucking vent after losing some 4 slot spells
GET YOUR FUCKING ACT TOGETHER.
Thanks.
Sorry it's so harsh that's just how I fucking feel right now.
Blimey :)
I actually sat here and read this whole thread, and although on the whole I personally agree with Samhain, I also see Marx's POV that he put across.
I am of two minds whether I agree with the "submit a bug when you crash" opinion, or the "why should I submit, I pay for a game that doesn't work on so many different ppl's systems" .
In part, I agree with both opinions. There ARE a lot of errors which affect other players horribly, I am not one of those to whom it happens with remarkably high regularity, but I can sympathize with it and can see just why people get so angry and scream their proverbial throats out on here.
In Ultima Online, there was a Connection Lost error for the 3 years or so that I played the game, which happened quite often. There were also other bugs which are very comparable to the FRE's and Sync errors in Neocron and these bugs existed for approximately 95% of the UO population, possibly more. Eventually, people just stopped complaining as much about it because Origin just didn't do anything, or didn't even appear to be listening, and doing the mental equivalent of pounding your head against a stone wall isn't very pleasant after the first few times. As far as I know, these errors still haven't been fixed in the game, which is outrageous considering how big Origin are, and how much money they make.
In comparison, Reakktor appear to be rather a small company, and they do seem to respond to the community quite well on the whole IMO :) Which is something Origin had big problems doing, they almost never replied to anything ingame, or out of it.
I highly doubt there IS a quick way to fix these errors people experience, because they happen frequently for many people, on so many different systems. Which means they'd have to change the whole engine, servers, whatever and I'm fairly sure that would be a very big job :) Can't speak from experience about that, but I can't imagine it would be particularly easy OR quick to implement.
Screaming fuck in practically every other sentence isn't quite the way to get your point across without looking like a child, but I CAN see why it happens so often. Even with the lack of errors that I personally get, when I get a FRE or sync error just as I zone into a dangerous place, or in front of a Grim Chaser (or similar) it makes my blood boil when I log back in dead. So I can only imagine how massively frustrating it must be for the others who experience it 100 times more than I :)
Just read every post...
@Marx, a helpdesk reply was quoted in another thread about sending in FRE callstacks logs, as saying something along the lines of "Please stop sending them in until after DOY is released"
@All the stupid people saying "It's your computer not the game!"
Ridiculous, utterly utterly ridiculous, it's KK's RESPONSIBILITY to make it run on my PC, as long as I satisfy the minimum requirements.
@samhain: Dont ever roll a droner, I FRE three times as much while droning, I get the drone launching bug twice daily, and there's a few more droning only bugs out there too.
Forget My Name
16-02-04, 05:37
When Doy gets released, that will be KK's judgement day...
1) game is the same and people leave
2) game miraculously becomes stable... wowing the masses
I opt for choice two, but you know what? choice one is gonna happen. Sorry.
The ENTIRE basis on wether people will stay to play is SOLEY based on stability. I don't care what an excpetion is gonna say, but stability is THE RULE. Who cares about anything else unless you can enjoy it.
Think about this....
You are a smoker. But you want to quit.... You try to quit... but the pain of quiting is harder than you thought it would be, so you go back to smoking, KNOWING full well smoking is only bad for you and will eventually kill you.
You play neocron. But you want to try another mmorpg.... You sign up to SWG ... but the pain of leaving such a wonderful IDEA such as Neocron is harder than you thought it would be to let go, so, you go back to neocron, KNOWING full well all the crashes, syncs and nerfs is only bad for your gaming eperience, and will eventually get you jaded and leave for good.
Did I make sense?
I find it odd that those that complain the MOST and LOUDEST and HARSHEST about this game are the ones who LOVE it the most. Isn't that how love works.... ?
So u dig into the registry, fix the things you THINK are wrong and then come complain a certain program doesnt work??
Fix things I think are wrong? Are you retarted? I said I tweak. I optimize - I never said I was 'fixing' things.
I dont care how much benchmarks u made tbh, did u try running it of a clean windows install AND standard drivers ever??
As I've said A FEW TIMES - YES. I HAVE. I am not that fucking stupid that I'd be sitting here complaining about something not running if all I ever tried was my own altered configuration. I am a heavy overclocker, but of course when I ran into probs with Neocron I declocked to stock speeds (infact I've been running at stock for a while, because NC doesn't need the speed).
And as to those people warning me about droners - fuck, I was just thinking about it. :/
I crashed 5 times so far today, one of them was when I aimed at someone (ret started to close and I crashed), the other was just walking around by TG tower, and the other 2 were misc. at op fights. damn, it's my computer. now excuse me while I go play Unreal Tournament, Half-Life (and it's mods), and never crash.
Psycho Killa
16-02-04, 06:33
Drones cerataily have there own bugs but I dont seem to crash anymore at all while droning then any other time. Perhaps less since im less likely to zone.
Forget My Name
16-02-04, 06:59
To those people who say mmorpgs are complex and are different from single player games... maybe but....
I played Shadowbane for 5 months... Laggiest game ever, but I only crashed and FREd 4 times total.
I played FFXI for 2 months, and i never crashed or FREd ever....
I crashed and FREd in neocron 11 times today....
I for one don't buy into that whole " our product is fine, your comp is the problem" excuse about why this game has shoddy programming.
EDIT - here is my comp spec....
pentium 4 3.06 chip
1 gig of rimm rambus ram
audigy gamer
Nvidia 4600 128 megs
Dual 200gig Western digital 7,200 rpm drives in raid 0 config
my comp ( including monitor, etc... ) cost me over 3.5grand to build. I have 24 games installed on my comp, and only one, yes only one of all 24 crashes and fres all the time. Neocron.
Woop, I counted my crashes over a span of 4 hours this morning (during non-peak times, 120 people on the server). I counted 9, in 4 hours. I don't care what you say, that's not acceptable. To those telling me that I should fix settings in my computer, shut the hell up. Games are supposed to be made to adapt to my computer, I'm not supposed to adapt my computer to other games.
Sneh, it's called fault tolerence, we should get a trial of DoY prior to having to purchase it, so we know if we want to pay for something that crashes again.
Originally posted by Forget My Name
I crashed and FREd in neocron 11 times today....
I for one don't buy into that whole " our product is fine, your comp is the problem" excuse about why this game has shoddy programming.
Did you send in an informative and detailed bug report after each crash?
Originally posted by DarkOmen
Woop, I counted my crashes over a span of 4 hours this morning (during non-peak times, 120 people on the server). I counted 9, in 4 hours. I don't care what you say, that's not acceptable. To those telling me that I should fix settings in my computer, shut the hell up. Games are supposed to be made to adapt to my computer, I'm not supposed to adapt my computer to other games.
Did you send in an informative and detailed bug report after each crash?
Originally posted by Forget My Name
I for one don't buy into that whole " our product is fine, your comp is the problem" excuse about why this game has shoddy programming.
Well they did say that they know there are people with serious problems but there are a lot of people with few if any.
Curious. Whats your connection speed like to the server? I personally am only noticing crashes when the zone I am in is laggy (normally due to a lot of people there).
Just read the thread. There hasn't been one like this for a while, we used to get more a year ago. Whether stability has increased or the population is down/people just stopped complaining about it I'm not sure. I'll try and summarise my thoughts into some key points:
- The VAST majority of remaining players suffer crashes to desktop ('fatals') and Synchronising problems. Its a fact. I won't accept anyone saying differently. As Gort was saying, when you are in a large clan or faction teamspeak you will hear that everyone crashes.
- After over a year of retail, crashes which result directly in your death, and database problems that result directly in losing items SHOULD BE KK's NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Not making the mission terminal come up one screen earlier, or changing the colour of powerarmour. I have never heard of someone leaving the game because of the citycom interface efficiency, have you? To be fair, I noticed in the recent patch notes some refferences to the squashing of fatals, but in my opinion there are serious structural limitations to the game engine, its database, and the performance of the servers. If there wasn't, they would have fixed it by now I think.
- Server lag on the scale we have been seeing on Saturn is an embarassment to be honest. Whether its the level 3 providers or the servers themselves, I shouldn't have to know. It is stupid when a whole server basically spends at least one evening a week chatting because thats all that works reliably. Not even a statement on this problem is very disappointing.
- As for the other problems? For me they are countered by the draw of the game concept, and by the interaction of the small Neocron community with the developers and mods/gms. We do have a voice, and it is heard, but on matters such as this I don't think they have an answer for us. At the end of the day they have told us to stop complaining about the bugs (through sending error logs) and wait for bDoy. Fine we'll do that. But if it slips, or doesn't fix any of the key stability problems, the game will not last long.
So to the original thread starter, I say, yes, I feel your pain, and its annoying, and you're not alone, we're not in denial about there being problems, but if you're lucky enough to avoid the 2 main ones I've mentioned above, there is a lot you can take from this game for your monthly fee.
Originally posted by Selendor
Just read the thread. There hasn't been one like this for a while, we used to get more a year ago. Whether stability has increased or the population is down/people just stopped complaining about it I'm not sure. I'll try and summarise my thoughts into some key points:
- The VAST majority of remaining players suffer crashes to desktop ('fatals') and Synchronising problems. Its a fact. I won't accept anyone saying differently. As Gort was saying, when you are in a large clan or faction teamspeak you will hear that everyone crashes.
- After over a year of retail, crashes which result directly in your death, and database problems that result directly in losing items SHOULD BE KK's NUMBER ONE PRIORITY. Not making the mission terminal come up one screen earlier, or changing the colour of powerarmour. I have never heard of someone leaving the game because of the citycom interface efficiency, have you? To be fair, I noticed in the recent patch notes some refferences to the squashing of fatals, but in my opinion there are serious structural limitations to the game engine, its database, and the performance of the servers. If there wasn't, they would have fixed it by now I think.
- Server lag on the scale we have been seeing on Saturn is an embarassment to be honest. Whether its the level 3 providers or the servers themselves, I shouldn't have to know. It is stupid when a whole server basically spends at least one evening a week chatting because thats all that works reliably. Not even a statement on this problem is very disappointing.
- As for the other problems? For me they are countered by the draw of the game concept, and by the interaction of the small Neocron community with the developers and mods/gms. We do have a voice, and it is heard, but on matters such as this I don't think they have an answer for us. At the end of the day they have told us to stop complaining about the bugs (through sending error logs) and wait for bDoy. Fine we'll do that. But if it slips, or doesn't fix any of the key stability problems, the game will not last long.
So to the original thread starter, I say, yes, I feel your pain, and its annoying, and you're not alone, we're not in denial about there being problems, but if you're lucky enough to avoid the 2 main ones I've mentioned above, there is a lot you can take from this game for your monthly fee.
Do people who experience these problems send in an informative and detailed bug report after each crash?
My money's riding on... No.
Originally posted by Marx
Do people who experience these problems send in an informative and detailed bug report after each crash?
My money's riding on... No.
I used to many times each day, until I was told not to :)
I was given various things to try out and none of them worked and basically told there was nothing else they could do to help me and a copy of one of my logs would be sent to the dev team to look at.
I'm pretty sure the FRE bug I was having is not fixed. I managed to work it out (neocron is not compatible with wingate) and I sent a mail in asking them to look at the network code, maybe test it out with wingate - as wingate gave me no problems with anything other piece of games software I had used. I have a very stable system.
Neocron is a very buggy game imo (and I do agree with the original poster - although not necessarily with how the point was made), the responsibility to create a stable product that works over a lot of pc configurations (after all, there ARE a lot out there) is KKs. I disagree with any comments on here suggesting that it's in any way the customer's responsibility to adjust their configuration in order to get things running [I doubt they'd say that after suffering from 20+ fatals per day, having completely wiped their systems, trying driver after driver in the hope of finding one compatible with the game - trying just about everything for months only to find the problem was lying in a commonly used (enough to be tested against) internet sharing application].
I firmly believe that a lot of the FRE problems are caused by problems with the network code and I really hope this is looked into.
Originally posted by numb
I firmly believe that a lot of the FRE problems are caused by problems with the network code and I really hope this is looked into.
Oh, I agree.
But if everyone sent in bug reports, this would do three things.
a.) Put pressure on KK to fix them quickly.
b.) give them more info as to what might lead up to the crashes.
c.) Give them a proper idea on how many people experience these bugs.
If one person sends them, they'll generally get shrugged off. But if alot of people send them... It won't be as easy to do such.
Originally posted by Marx
If one person sends them, they'll generally get shrugged off. But if alot of people send them... It won't be as easy to do such.
True I guess :) It's a shame the launcher does not include some auto bug report tool - like the one in anarchy online.
I cant see how it would be difficult to include something that checks the error.log/callstack.log and gives you the option to send a bug report in by just clicking a button the next time you start the game. Cant see why it cant or shouldnt be added.
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