View Full Version : The Obliterator...then and now...
I was a big Oblit user prior to the patch and I still am. The 30 second nerf is very noticeable and uncalled for. It should be returned to 90 seconds and a 2nd rare stealth device added which gives 60 seconds of stealth.
Saying this as a spy 60 seconds is enough if you cant run away hide or get a new sniping position in that amount of time you deserve to be hunted down and killed.
And theres always the fact that like 2 seconds afterwards you can stealth for another minute.
EDIT:rare pool is too diluted as it is aswell.
Originally posted by Mr_Snow
Saying this as a spy 60 seconds is enough if you cant run away hide or get a new sniping position in that amount of time you deserve to be hunted down and killed.
And theres always the fact that like 2 seconds afterwards you can stealth for another minute.
EDIT:rare pool is too diluted as it is aswell.
he doesent use it to run away, he uses it for recon etc, getting a good look at things...
Please keep in mind that Obli wasnt only a stealth sniper tool but also very usefull for tradeskillers who intended to work in non safe zones. While I do agree on snipers, on tradeskillers these 30sec nerf does really hurt coz it not only the time to get away, but often also to transfer heavy stuff to gogo before you can even move.
60 seconds is more than enough, hell I used to recon with a 10 second stealth before I went lowtech. You've just gotta use distance and terrain to your advantage.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
he doesent use it to run away, he uses it for recon etc, getting a good look at things...
Thats how it should be used - shouldn't have been changed in the 1st place.
Saying this as a spy 60 seconds is enough if you cant run away hide or get a new sniping position in that amount of time you deserve to be hunted down and killed.
Because all people do in NC is PvP/PK...
I use my stealth tools to avoid things like Faction guards, DoY Defense Units (same difference, essentially), and survey areas I can't normally enter (like caves). It has nothing to do with sniping or running away, it has to do with scouting.
I agree, the 30 second nerf is noticeable. It would be ok with me if Obliterator had a Distract Mind function, but it doesn't. :-/
Original monk
12-02-04, 15:05
i miss the 90 seconds also and dont even know why in earth they ever changed it ... they nerf pe's stealth use so spy's must pay also for some weird reason that i dont even know.
i used obliterator to press autowalk/autorun and yust let em walk for 1,5 minutes ... in the wastes ... witouth any fear of being attacked by a guard, jhonny5 or mob ... pure luxury but very usefull to me certainly with the fucked up genreprules (wich i dont see the use of also except for it beeing a majour timesink ...)
yust bring it back to 90 seconds pwetty pwease
Originally posted by Lucjan
but often also to transfer heavy stuff to gogo before you can even move.
If I was in that situation I wouldn't even bother to stealth. The second you stealth the person is going to open up with AOE in your general location. You can't move = dead.
Psyco Groupie
12-02-04, 15:14
Im not sure how 60 sec cantbe enough, but ive never used it so i'll stay neutral ... a second devide might be a fix with the 60 sec one only needing a wee bit more tc thn stealth 3.
And the droprate is fine so stop whining snow :lol:
a second devide might be a fix with the 60 sec one only needing a wee bit more tc thn stealth 3
It only needs 5 more TC than a Stealth III... 95 vs 100 TC. Changed last patch. I'd rather have the 30 seconds back or a Distract Mind function.
Richard Blade
12-02-04, 15:41
The TC is balanced from my point of view. A spy has to make concessions between pc/rc, agility, and TC. Putting the TC at that level is still hard to reach, but it's not total gimping bad.
The time shouldn't have been shortened, it is a rare afterall.
It either needs to go back to the full 90 seconds, or it needs a function to be able to break out of stealth without penalty.
But, not both!
edit: @Icestorm
I think it was 105 TC before.
heh, didn't know it got nerfed, how long does stealth 3 last, wasnt that the 30 second stealth before?
I think it was 30 seconds when first put on the retail server, then upped to the pre-patch 45 seconds. No proof since it's not in any notes that it changed. It's now back to 30 seconds.
Yeah, 3 got nerfed from 45 to 30.
I wish they'd put both S3 and Obliterator back as they were.
Callash explained his reasoning in another thread recently but IMO it's flawed and I hope he reconsiders it at some point.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 17:26
Thats how it should be used - shouldn't have been changed in the 1st place.
Jesus christ you mongs.
Just cast it once, run around for about 50 seconds, when you see it running off, get somewhere safe and recast it, takes 2 seconds of your time, and effectivly you can inifinate stealth.
Its common knowledge.
60 seconds is a long time, and way enough for any stealth user.
Scouting is just that, stealth, check numbers, leave.
Not set up fucking tent, and put a roast on, jesus.
Get real
Does it ever occur to you that some people don't play the way you do or that by playing in their way they have learnt things you haven't?
I couldn't care less what a monk thinks about how to use stealth or what he believes is "common knowledge".
o_O
I can recon with my PE and his 10 second stealth.....
o_O
Originally posted by Zanathos
o_O
I can recon with my PE and his 10 second stealth.....
o_O
And I can kill a grim with a mendicant rifle.
So what?
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 17:42
Does it ever occur to you that some people don't play the way you do or that by playing in their way they have learnt things you haven't?
its common sense..Get some knowledge
I couldn't care less what a monk thinks about how to use stealth or what he believes is "common knowledge".
I play a capped Private Eye / Capped Droner / Capped Tank..
Whats your point? I know my shit.
I can recon with my PE and his 10 second stealth.....
Anyone with any game sense can, thats the point, the obliterator is fine now, 90 seconds was 2 long, a minute is just right.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
I play a capped Private Eye / Capped Droner / Capped Tank..
Whats your point? I know my shit.
Me too, and a half dozen others.
I play a spy most though and I know spies inside-out. I don't try to tell PEs, Tanks and Monks how to play even though I've probably done more game hours on those classes than most people in this game because I consider myself a spy player.
You are a monk player AFAIK and I see no evidence you know how to play a spy.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 17:48
You are a monk player AFAIK and I see no evidence you know how to play a spy.
Why am i possibly a monk player when Kaolin, my first and ever character, who I had for a year was my main character, untill 3 days ago, when I finally deleted him.
And guess what, OOH ive had a monk for 3 days! :eek:
And no, I play my droner/tank the most.
And my droner does stupidly fine with stealth 1, I have no use for an Obliterator, and TBH no one should unless you enjoy gimping yourself :o
Original monk
12-02-04, 17:50
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
its common sense..Get some knowledge
hehe i like people that say some things are common sence: then i can point out how extremely wrong they are ... :P
jernau is 100% right here: not everyone plays the same and it would be foolish and boring if we did ... same reason why i hate them cookiecuttersetups ... and the item-usepossibility-nerf of the hybrids... all things that standarize this game only make it more boowring
so ya gotta be glad that people use(d) the 90 seconds stealth for other things then you intended to use em for... and the people complaining about the unwanted nerf to 60 seconds are completely right: its not cause most people dont need 90 seconds that everyone doesnt need 90 seconds ... cause some people do: and im one of em :)
cu laterz im off to me home :)
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
I have no use for an Obliterator, and TBH no one should unless you enjoy gimping yourself :o
<- This is what we call an "opinion". It's not the same as a "fact".
Not everyone plays the game the way you do. Many players used Obliterator and had good reasons to do so. If you don't know why people used it then you aren't much of a spy is all I can say.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 17:51
cause some people do
WoW a whole three who are incapable of succesfully doing everything you will ever need in a minute.
Get some run speed specced or something :o
Many players used Obliterator and had good reasons to do so. If you don't know why people used it then you aren't much of a spy is all I can say.
I know why people used it, they need it to feel comfortable that its not going to run out while there scouting a stupid amount.
It gives them confidence to enter the wolves den, yet its uneccasery.
KK have done right by the obliterator, those 'some people' need to learn to be more efficiant :o
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
WoW a whole three who are incapable of succesfully doing everything you will ever need in a minute.
Get some run speed specced or something :o
Of the dozen or so people in this thread only 2 of you think it's better now. That's more than in most of the other threads on the topic. Neither of you seem to have a clue how to play a spy so why would we consider your opinions on the matter?
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 17:55
Neither of you seem to have a clue how to play a spy so why would we consider your opinions on the matter?
I know how to play a spy very well, perhaps thats why I dont need 90 seconds worth of stealth to be efficiant and to be 'stealthy'
If I can recon in 10 seconds....
then an obliterator user can do it in 60 seconds.
case closed.
what else can you possibly do in the extra 50 seconds you get with obliterator when i can get the job done in 10 seconds.
Whats there to recon? How many there are, what classes there are, where they are, what directions there in, hell, i can even get some of their names and ranks.
I can do all of that in 10 seconds.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 18:00
Whats there to recon? How many there are, what classes there are, where they are, what directions there in, hell, i can even get some of their names and ranks.
Case closed.
Its OK jernau saying "you obviously dont know what use they have with the obliterator"
yet he doesnt actually say any, I am guessing they are what we say, Except they have zero athletics and agility so need an hour stealth to walk there as there so fucking slow :lol:
Last time I checked there was a lot more to this game than OP wars.
Obviously some people have a lot less ability/imagination though.
Failing to see the potential of either your class/items or the game itself is your loss not mine.
stop saying you're the most efficient lol....
it might be the case FOR YOU, but not for somebody else
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 18:04
Please Jernau, share the wealth that an obliterator with 90 seconds stealth could give me.
Avoiding Mobs
Escaping when parashocked/Dmg boosted
Covering an entire zone when in a vehicle that is open to you being hit
If you have bad SL giving you the ability to do missions in the city
Hacking belts?
Sorry but these are all possible with 60 seconds.
Imagine a minute silence, it lasts forever, I found myself using anti stealth drugs with stealth2 as it lasted 2 long o_O :o
stop saying you're the most efficient lol....
Sad but true.
All of those are valid and not always possible in 60 seconds.
I particuarly liked the fact it outlasted para/db/poison meaning I could lose tracer effects without drug haze. This is bloody useful when the kids with small willys turn up in hunting zones to shoot people in the back.
Other uses I had for Obliterator included :
GR into OP under attack while GR is camped, scout the OP and GR out before it expires - not always possible in 60 seconds and re-stealthing isn't an option because of SI.
Getting into hostile areas to buy special items (MB, FA, TG weapons). MB can be done in 60 seconds - the others can't.
Spying on fights from inside enemy OP - restealthing again not an option as you appear on local and turrets spot you.
Retrieving belts from deep inside caves or enemy territory - restealthing not an option in caves as mobs and guards don't lose lock when you stealth.
Watching cool fights between sides who are both hostile to me - happens a lot on Saturn if you are FA.
There are plenty of others. Yes, "comfort" is one of them. If people want to gimp a bit they deserve some benefit - what's the problem with that?
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 18:28
All of those are valid and not always possible in 60 seconds.
I think you'll find they are :o
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
I think you'll find they are :o
Avoiding mobs - yes in the wastes, no in caves (they don't lose you when you restealth)
Escaping while marked - only using drugs. While the effect expires in under 60 secs you still then have to lose the pursuers and get out of range, possibly with your legs shot out.
Running across zones - agreed.
Missions - not tried that tbh, I do them where it's safer.
Hacking - you can't hack in stealth but if you want to grab a belt out the end room of the chaos caves after the server belches and synchs the team out (for example) 60 secs is not enough.
btw - Why do you put the embarassed smiley after all you posts?
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 18:46
Why do you put the embarassed smiley after all you posts?
Its more of a yawn :rolleyes:
Avoiding Mobs
Covering an entire zone when in a vehicle that is open to you being hit
Ever get stuck in a ravine with a Hoverbomber nearby? There's some nice ones that are right on zone lines where you can't get out easily. 90 seconds gives you 30 more seconds to maneouver that Reveler out of the ravine.
What about if I want screenshots of mobs? 30 seconds less means less time to set up for pictures before having to get to a hidden area (assuming there's a hidden area to get to in the first place).
If you have bad SL giving you the ability to do missions in the city
Unless the CopBots are somehow gimped, Soul Light guards are stealth-blind. It doesn't work on Jailhouse guards and supposedly does not work on CopBots either.
Imagine a minute silence, it lasts forever, I found myself using anti stealth drugs with stealth2 as it lasted 2 long
I never did. Maybe you should've switched to a Stealth instead of using the Stealth II.
Get some run speed specced or something
Why should I change my character setup to fit your cookie-cutter definition of how NC should be played?
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 19:10
Why should I change my character setup to fit your cookie-cutter definition of how NC should be played?
My setups arent cookie-Cutter, there just 100% effective, and unflawed unlike obliterator users, who end up waisting so many points getting there.
Richard Blade
12-02-04, 19:14
Avoiding Mobs
Escaping when parashocked/Dmg boosted
Covering an entire zone when in a vehicle that is open to you being hit
If you have bad SL giving you the ability to do missions in the city
Hacking belts?
The first 4 are good.
How about:
Avoiding warparties. (got stuck on the side of a canyon while a party of TG ran by. That extra 10 seconds was enough to let them pass.)
Tracking warparties.
In depth recon. Noting postions to use, looking for the meat sack of that pesky droner.
Lots of reasons.
Now, as to that hacking belts point that Clownstopper made...
My game may crash once in a while, but I doubt it's fundamentaly broken. I can't hack belts while stealthed.
If you can hack belts while stealthed, then you have an exploit or broken code. If people are supposed to be able to hack while stealthed, where can I buy the tool that allows it?
Hacking while stealthed, can't happen. The tool like guns, go inoperative and give the message, "You cannot use this item yet."
Edit:
I'll give you that someone else can hack the belt, then you run through and grab it and get away. But, that person is likely to drop a belt now too. They don't benefit from your stealth tool.
Worst of all, 90 seconds was the perfect amount of time to take a long piss after 3 beers. Now I end up rushing it and spraying the floor. 8|
Me thinks that clown has serious issues with oblit and the long stealth it had and argue with the 'spies' who have responded to your bias views which again said by jernau you have no base for your views.
I've played a spy for like a year or more now and capped so I think know my class and its merits.
I agree there was no need to nerf it when the entire point in the stealth nerf was to make it harder for pes to use stealth not screw spies along the way.
I saw the need to increase the reqs thats all fine and I could cope with that as I would see the benfits of not having pes stealth as long.
At the end of the day spies are the weakest class with regards to con etc, oblit was great for tracking ppl and checking out areas.
Alot can change in the 30secs that you have now lost and gone off far enough to hide away from the enemy you are watching.
Originally posted by RayBob
Worst of all, 90 seconds was the perfect amount of time to take a long piss after 3 beers. Now I end up rushing it and spraying the floor. 8|
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:D
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
ANYWAYS :)
I dont plan to use more than stealth 3 im my Spy.....
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 19:48
Me thinks that clown has serious issues with oblit and the long stealth it had and argue with the 'spies' who have responded to your bias views which again said by jernau you have no base for your views.
OK are you even reading my posts? Ive had a COMBAT spy since the start of the retail, the first ever character I made, I know just about everything there is about spys.
I agree there was no need to nerf it when the entire point in the stealth nerf was to make it harder for pes to use stealth not screw spies along the way
PE's will never be able to use Stealth 3 or the Obliterator, and 99% wont use stealth 2, so no they havent nerfed spys for the benefit of PE's.
oblit was great for tracking ppl and checking out areas.
It still is, obliterator was brought inline with the other stealths.
Stealth1 = 10 seconds
Stealth2 = 20 seconds
Stealth3 = 30 seconds
Obliterator = 60 seconds
instead of the jump from 30seconds to 60 seconds it is more understandable, and a 30 second jump from stealth 3 to the rare version is a hell of alot.
Be greatfull for it, I 100% managed with stealth 2, that was with tracking.
Sounds to me as you dont know your class, and have no ability to use terrain or the idea of using an obliterator twice, three, or four times in sucession.
8|
I want a stealth tool that lasts 5 minutes!
:D
:lol:
O_o
:(
Just kidding.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 19:56
I want a stealth tool that lasts 5 minutes!
Please, I cant possibly use this minute stealth without being seen :rolleyes:
If you never used stealth 3 or Obliterator how can you comment on the effect of changing them has on those who have used them to great effect?
I think you use the phrase "combat spy" to mean you are solely interested in dealing damage directly in PvP. The higher level stealths are not useful for this so you wouldn't use them. They were useful for people who play in other ways however.
The change has no effect on you and a large negative effect on others. The phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here. The change is not going to make you use them and it has stopped others wanting to so all it achieves is making another rare totally useless.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 20:09
If you never used stealth 3 or Obliterator how can you comment on the effect of changing them has on those who have used them to great effect?
I did use stealth 3, found no use for it, Combat spy as in I wasnt a constructor :rolleyes:
They were useful for people who play in other ways however.
FFS it still is, its fucking 60 SECONDS OF STEALTH, its even longer if you crouch :rolleyes:
The change has no effect on you and a large negative effect on others
I know very very few obliterator spys. As most well specced players who care about points dont waist them.
The phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here
The same applies for a hell of alot of things in Neocron, this isnt one of them, its double the stealth time of the greatest stealth, that sounds rare to me o_O
The change is not going to make you use them and it has stopped others wanting to
Again, You think because its no longer 90 seconds that no one will ever use it again? If people were willing to 'waist' points previously, they will continue to do so :o
Stealth in this game is very simplist, and from my point of view the rare stealth is completely underpowered.
Obliterator should be over all the tools by a great difference.
My reasons?
The use of stealth in the game should have a rank, with better uses as the tool scales up in Tech Level. Now people still find advantages in using stealth I-II over their higher TL counterparts... and some of you guys are so cheeky to use it as an argument?
That's the most flawed part, if you are doing the spy job fine with stealth I-II then "obviously" there is something wrong, no excuses.
- Or do you go back to TPC once you get your CS? Maybe you use a TAR or a RapidFire when you get either Lib or Pain Easer?
Now think why people using obliterator is still in a second plane, second use, or even no use compared to the non-rare versions. That happens when people gets too used to something, then forget the basis and the reasons to change it for good.
I play a capped spy with stealth III and I have enought to use obliterator if I want. I also cap damage, aiming and RoF on all my rifles (FL and Disruptor need rifle3 to cap RoF, I get 193 and 187 with r-c1); I use inq1 armors to get better defence and I dont mind making sacrifices for my char.
I know how to setup my char for the way I like to play it. And I use stealth III combined with anti-stealth drugs because I dont want a timer in my arse telling me when I have to attack and ambush, but instead I preffer to leave that at my judge and my will.
These are my reasons.
Cheers to RayBob for starting the thread.
My setups arent cookie-Cutter, there just 100% effective,
Not being able to use Obliterator is not effective for me and my usage of Stealth. What is good for you (lower level Stealth tools) is not good for all.
obliterator was brought inline with the other stealths.
The available Stealth Activators on the retail servers are lacking one other tool, Eraser, which was a 60 second Stealth tool. Obliterator wasn't brought in line so much as it was made to fit Eraser's original specs.
I still want Obliterator as it was intended to be, not Eraser with an Obliterator label.
I know very very few obliterator spys.
You know each and every 10,000+ accounts in use in NC? Your sample size is inconsequential compared to the larger NC community.
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 20:16
What is good for you is not good for all.
Thats why I have at least 5 people a day asking for setups :rolleyes:
Obliterator should be over all the tools by a great difference.
Agreed, but increasing its stealth timer isnt it, Id rather see it uncover stealthers, or allows you to see them
Thats why I have at least 5 people a day asking for setups
Not everyone builds cookie-cutters based off other people's cookie-cutters...
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 20:21
Not everyone builds cookie-cutters based off other people's cookie-cutters...
Of course, But once again, My setups arent cookie-cutters.
And you'll find most of the time CC setup's are the best use of points, and really, is the max potential of a class.
So no CC setups arent bad, I often tweak CC setups.
Again, I know how to spec, and have some sense of reality when I realise that 105 high tech (last time i checked) was for obliterator :eek:
Of course, But once again, My setups arent cookie-cutters.
If everyone is using it (and based on your narrow view of NC population, people do use your setup or something similar), it's cookie-cutter. Doesn't matter if you make the first one or not.
And you'll find most of the time CC setup's are the best use of points, and really, is the max potential of a class.
So your "100% effective" from before isn't a CC setup, but you just said CC setups are the best use of points most of the time... which is it? Are you a "100% effective" CC or not?
Again, I know how to spec,
For your own needs, not for everyone's. Specifying points is up to the individual.
and have some sense of reality when I realise that 105 high tech (last time i checked) was for obliterator
It was never 105 on retail. It was 110, then changed to 100 with the last patch.
If you don't own one, don't know its specs, and don't use it, why bitch about the timer? Those of us that were using it obviously don't use your cookie-cutter on our characters and don't wish to be forced to...
The sequence was originally suppose to be Stealth 1, Stealth 2, Stealth 3, Eraser, Obliterator. Which is why the Obliterator's stealth interval seemed so much greater than Stealth 3. But they never issued the Eraser onto retail. So when they reworked the tools they of course collapsed the sequence to remove the gap ... so the Obliterator is now being treated as the Eraser would have been - hence its shorter stealth time. If they ever introduce a new stealth tool at the upper end, then that one might have 90 seconds.
Haven't used an Oblit for half a year now, but it was terrific for recon inside Ops. I could do a thorough checkout of the inside of an Op and its UG, and count all the defenders ... and *never* be discovered unless i screwed up. The whole idea was to get a solid count and NOT alert them, even a little bit. Don't know if that can be done with 60 second intervals; maybe so but perhaps not as easily as before. But I'd bet money it can't be done with only 10 seconds, so anyone who says that Stealth 1 is sufficient for anything a stealther might want to do is ... well let's just call the poor fellow "slightly confused" or perhaps "less than creative" with regard to possible uses. Stealth 2 and 3 are rather iffy themselves; it can potentially be done but you are likely to be discovered. Naturally, if you don't care about discovery, and only want a headcount, then sure any of the stealth tools can do the job, with some being more risky than others with regard to maybe being attacked and killed.
Spook
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 20:33
If you don't own one, don't know its specs, and don't use it, why bitch about the timer?
Was so long ago that I used it couldnt remember :rolleyes:
Stealth 2 and 3 are rather iffy themselves
Again, Get some skills *sigh*
the only reason to use an obliterator is the comfort factor of knowing unless they got a TS up, u wont be found.
Clownst0pper, i do believe you failed to read what i posted or perhaps misunderstood what i had written.
My point was that "Stealth 2 and 3 are rather iffy themselves" when it comes to thoroughly checking out the inside of an Op and its UG when enemies are present, get a solid headcount ... and NOT be discovered.
So ... are you telling me that you can easilly do all that and NOT EVER BE DISCOVERED using Stealth 2 or 3? And other people can too? I doubt it, not reliably, which is why i used the term "iffy" ... sure its possible, but potentially difficult to impossible depending on the realities of the situation. Whereas with the Oblit it was trivial, regardless of circumstances.
the only reason to use an obliterator is the comfort factor of knowing unless they got a TS up, u wont be found.
You really don't pay attention to what you supposedly read, do you? My whole point about the merits of the tools was SPECIFICALLY ABOUT not being found. Sheesh.
Spook
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 20:55
So ... are you telling me that you can easilly do all that and NOT EVER BE DISCOVERED using Stealth 2 or 3?
Sorry but yes I am :confused:
Well, golly, i am tempted to say "bullshit" in response. But okay, perhaps you are capable in that regard. I can accept that. But just because *you* can, doesnt mean that other people should only make do with lesser tools, or are in any way twits because they cant do as well ... that would be the point of view of a rather arrogant and egotistical individual - which i doubt you are.
Spook
Forget My Name
12-02-04, 21:04
Don't bother talking to clown, not worth the brain matter lose reading his holier than thouh responses...
Good thread. Return Obli to 90 seconds.
EDIT - just say bullshit, because it is, and forget about clown. He is the best player ever, so all items in this game must conform to his play style since we all have 'no skills' are 'n00bs' or ' blow'.
That's one approach. Or keep the Obliterator as it is, but re-add the Eraser at 90 seconds.
Spook
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 21:09
Well, golly, i am tempted to say "bullshit" in response. But okay, perhaps you are capable in that regard. I can accept that. But just because *you* can, doesnt mean that other people should only make due with lesser tools, or are in any way twits because they cant do as well ... that would be the point of view of a rather arrogant and egotistical individual - which i doubt you are.
Your practically saying I want the obliterator 90 seconds because I am incapable of making good use of a 60 second stealth :confused:
Sorry but thread is a mock of players who need that 30 seconds because for that 30 seconds, they fuck about, and the remaining 60 seconds to get to there target.
Well, no, again you are quite wrong. I am talking military operations inside an enemy held compound. By definition you do anything you can to reduce risk and ensure the success of the mission. Only 133t 4l@yahs (also known as assholes and morons) would take greater risks using low level stealth tools just to show how cool they were ... and so jeopardize the mission. The truely great recon specialists would opt for long stealth intervals and thereby confirm their competence and ensure success of the mission.
Spook
Forget My Name
12-02-04, 21:28
Spook... don't bother educating him, it won't work. The 'l33t' don't care what the 'n0 skillz l00serz' think.
Lol, i guess you're right. Throughout the various ages of warfare people with those kind of attitudes got shot or stabbed by their buddies who then blamed it on the enemy ... because otherwise such idiocies would probably get them killed instead.
Spook
Forget My Name
12-02-04, 21:40
I am in the Army here in usa, and i have told some of my platoon mates that I dont want to see them when we go to Kosovo later this year, I will kill them once the shit hits the fan. No discusion. they just carry extra ammo, food , water and a second pair of boots for me. They are more dangerous to others alive than dead.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Sorry but yes I am :confused:
Put you ego away and stop lying.:rolleyes:
Clownst0pper
12-02-04, 22:28
Put you ego away and stop lying
FFS Im not lying! :mad:
I imagine it was nerfed because people started whining about it.
Originally posted by Original monk
i miss the 90 seconds also and dont even know why in earth they ever changed it ... they nerf pe's stealth use so spy's must pay also for some weird reason that i dont even know.
i used obliterator to press autowalk/autorun and yust let em walk for 1,5 minutes ... in the wastes ... witouth any fear of being attacked by a guard, jhonny5 or mob ... pure luxury but very usefull to me certainly with the fucked up genreprules (wich i dont see the use of also except for it beeing a majour timesink ...)
yust bring it back to 90 seconds pwetty pwease
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
FFS Im not lying! :mad: FFS Clown, even if you werent lying, the fact that you and it seems you alone can do things in 30 second in game that no one else can do DOES NOT mean that a change isnt warranted. :rolleyes:
So I claim that my noob tank can solo MC5 and therefore it needs to be made tougher. Even if I WASNT lying about it, and my noob tank COULD solo MC5... would I as the lone example merit booster MC5 toughness?
"I can do this" != "Everyone can do this therefore things are fine as they are."
Originally posted by MegaCorp
TBut they never issued the Eraser onto retail.
I've ressed Eraser parts for people? Can they not be constructed?
My God, you have? When?!? Maybe the Eraser was finally introduced. It could reside comfortably as a 45 second tool between the 30 second Stealth 3 and the 60 Second Obliterator, or be the new 90 second tool where the Oblit used to be.
Or maybe they just reused the name for some other kind of thingy, instead of a stealth tool.
Spook
I don't understand the fuss, both sides of this argument are
neither wrong nor correct.
60 seconds is a long time and you can re-stealth almost
immediately.
However, since thats the case, does it make a large difference
if the duration is 60,90 seconds or even unlimited?
If the reactivation of stealth wasn't almost instantaneous I'd
be more sympathetic to the duration argument as being
"right", but since that is not the case I still lean towards
the duration argument simply because it doesn't matter.
Don't know about others, but it is never instantaneous for me. It takes anywhere from about 3 seconds to 5 seconds, depending on lag; i am US based so thats probably why lag tends to be a key factor. Anyway, being a kami spy, that is plenty long enough to make me dead. I am an insta-kill when you catch me, lol. So the longer the stealth interval, the better chance i have of getting to some place relatively safe to decloak and reactivate the tool.
Note though, i am not complaining, merely pointing out the particulars as they apply to myself. Was using Stealth 3 before they altered the stats, then used Stealth 2 for awhile, and am now back to 3 again. [shrug] Stopped using the Oblit this past summer for several reasons, which simply boiled down to it not being right for me.
Edit: it was taking more like 15+ seconds in a big Op war the other day, just FYI, but that is admittedly uncommon.
Spook
Clownst0pper
13-02-04, 00:40
I just cant see any justification warrenting a rare stealth tool to be 3 times longer than the none rare.
Sorry.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
And my droner does stupidly fine with stealth 1, I have no use for an Obliterator, and TBH no one should unless you enjoy gimping yourself :o
exactly... my droner uses stealth 1 too and i can survive against several people just using that... while still be able to do combat after hiding...
its not hard; just takes some practice.
i can survive against several people just using that
That's great, but not everything in the game is a person. There's a ton of mobs out there, and guess what? Stealth doesn't work the same way on them as it does on players...
Psycho Killa
13-02-04, 04:04
Then fix stealth vs mobs? :confused:
I was using the "new" Obliterator for few days...
It's way too long, in both PvP and PvM. It takes all of 10 seconds to get into position... then I just sit there and wait... and wait.... yeah I could use drugs, but if I'm never needing these extra seconds, why should I?
I went back to Stealth III and I likes it.
Forget My Name
13-02-04, 05:02
Originally posted by mdares
exactly... my droner uses stealth 1 too and i can survive against several people just using that... while still be able to do combat after hiding...
its not hard; just takes some practice.
You need to remember that stealth tools are NOT just a way to keepa spy alive. How about when you GR into mb, and you want to run away so fools wont pk you or follow your smoke trail until you zone outside?
How about sending ina spy to an op to see if it has enemy in it, then counting the number of people, how many ppus, apus, tanks, turrets, etc....
Stealth tools are not just ment to be a "oh shit, im being hit, time to live" item. The obliterator WAS the perfect tool to SPY on people. I loved using it in a sewer, and then running near fools in certain areas to hear their conversations about what op to attack.
Forget My Name
13-02-04, 05:04
Originally posted by -FN-
I was using the "new" Obliterator for few days...
It's way too long, in both PvP and PvM. It takes all of 10 seconds to get into position... then I just sit there and wait... and wait.... yeah I could use drugs, but if I'm never needing these extra seconds, why should I?
I went back to Stealth III and I likes it.
Once again, not everyone is the same as you, or clown. some people, some spies I ment, actualy try to be just that, A SPY. Obliterator's main function served best before attacking an op, or going out and searching an area aorund an op before the spy's clan gets attacked, sort of like a gorund based droner of sorts.
Yeah, an Oblit doesnt really seem to be meant for sniping per se, although you can use it that way ... but you have to be prepared to often use anti-stealth drugs to destealth when you actually want to start shooting since it lasts so long, or be prepared to do a lot of waiting. Its more of a "go spying around" device as other people mentioned. If you just move and do some shooting, move and do some shooting, and sometimes run away, then one of the lesser tools is probably better suited to that purpose; even Stealth 1 is just fine depending on your personal skill. If you mostly just want to run away, or do general spying, or avoid mobs as you travel from one place to another, you use the longest stealthing tool that you can reasonably accommodate, given your goals for skill point distribution. As for why a 90 second stealth tool instead of, or in addition to, a 60 second ...
If you have to dig a ditch, and can choose any of these, would you rather use a thimble, a large soup spoon, a garden hand-trowel, a small spade, or a serious shovel? Similarly if you need to scout a zone or the inside of an Op in detail and not be discovered, and can choose any of these, do you use a stealth tool you have to reinvoke every 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or 90 seconds? The most efficient tool, is obviously the better choice. Yes you can do the job with one of the lesser tools, but if you can convince someone to give you a better one ... you'd be kinda silly to use something less.
Now of course you may not be able to use some of the better stealth tools because of how you distributed your skill points, so you will use the best you can and probably practice and get good with it. And your personal skills may enable you to get by with a lesser tool, thereby giving you some extra skill points to put elsewhere. But neither of those invalidates someone else wanting to take advantage of longer stealth times to be more efficient and effective given what *they* use it for.
So ... can people make do with 60 seconds? Of course. But do they want 90 seconds like they used to have? Also of course, and for a good reason: it would be the better tool given what they do with it.
Spook
In my opinion, the obliterator shouldn't have been touched. I mean im AGAINST stealth, but when it comes to the obliterator...60 or 90 seconds, its plenty of time to chug an antipoison pot, chug an antifreeze pot, find a place to log and hit alt+f4
plenty
so what did taking it from 90 to 60 seconds do? nothing other then making it harder to spy on enemy locations. its just somewhat annoying now to use, whereas the 90 seconds was just right. 60 or 90 seconds, doesn't matter when it comes to getting away from the people attacking you, really doesn't matter at all..ur still gonna get away easily. but it does matter for spying out enemies.
the worst part is, you got 2 choice on a spy:
- fire resist, no obliterator
- obliterator, no fire resist
frankly, ur resists hurt when your forced to achieve 120 dex on ur spy, that is if you are like me and dont want to have to drug to use obliterator....
Then fix stealth vs mobs?
I already asked them to do that!
if you are like me and dont want to have to drug to use obliterator....
If you're only off in INT or DEX, use a glove instead of drugs? Not like you're gonna be shooting much if you're scouting.
If you need both, well, that sucks.
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