Damage, and how to make everyone scream (idea, new damage types) [Archive]

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 11:07

Ok, so I admit I've not been playing neocron as much of late, you wanna know why somewhat older game's have lured me away for a time?

Damage type's.. In neocron we've got; peirce, force, energy, fire posion and Xray.. Now let's see, that 6 type's of damage, not a huge number and Neocron misses so many chances..

Take freazers, currently they do a little energy damage and shock you, now with a few more damage type's feazer's could do cold damage, who's side effect could be to shock you..

Acid, you know they stuff that eat's though metal, and some even eat though glass, it'd be a good counter point to posion I think..

So that's the general idea, I think we should have to suffer in many diffrent way's.. Onto the damage type ideas..

Acid
Well acid should do a low ammount of damage over a very long time (60 seconds), and be open to rifle's and pistols, maybe only single shot weapon's though.. Damage about TL/20 or so per tick..

Cold
By heck love turn t'fire on..
All freazer weapon's should do this damage type, and maybe make parashock's cause this damage type, but a lower ammount of damage, would mean freazer's modded to max damage would have some small reason for being, relativly short duration and lowish damage, about the same as fire almost..

Rad
short for radation
Yea we've already got Xray, but there's more harmfull stuff about, this damage type would cover more or less background rad, found mostly in the wastland's, best used as a sort of travel damage, they say travel to the Dome is risky because of the imence radation, but then it's not there so, best add it..
Rad would not stack, but do a little damage based on where you are in the wastlands. the deeper waste's having a higher damage rad counter than the rest..

What does thou thunkest?

edit//
Before anyone else say's it, yes it would muck up your resist's, and yes it would mean you'd have to alter your setup, maybe not covering all resist's fully as you had, this is not a bad thing.

Cytaur

12-02-04, 11:12

it sucks, NC should be kept simple, not stat-o-cron like fooking everquest a single item has 100 different stats.....

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 11:13

Originally posted by Cytaur
it sucks, NC should be kept simple, not stat-o-cron like fooking everquest a single item has 100 different stats.....

So your saying you like your game's simple?

I'd much prefer to have to think from time to time, maybe picking out a diffrent weapon, or needing to carry two above the old RoF on sniper rifle issuses..

Anyway, it'd not be any diffrent than it is already, just a few more damage type's.. are you that fixxed on your con and armor setup?

Cytaur

12-02-04, 11:15

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Anyway, it'd not be any diffrent than it is already, just a few more damage type's.. are you that fixxed on your con and armor setup?

and that too... CON points are limited...

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 11:21

Originally posted by Cytaur
and that too... CON points are limited...

That's the point.

Cookie cutter setup's are made because the point's are limited, but because the damage type's delt with at higher level's are all the same type's, you don't need a much diffrent setup than joe blog's..

So, this idea mean's you can have a ballenced setup that's not as effective as before, or you can resist energy fire and Xray like you alway's have and be weak to Acid and cold damage..

It's the choice, I'd rather have to pick and choose, ballanced and be overall less well defended anganst all attack's, or go into resisting a few damage type's realy well, but be at a dissadvatage when someone with a diffren gun come's along..

Comie

12-02-04, 11:39

hmm
i have been wondering this too.. why arent there more types.

however if yu brought in Radiation yu would have to remove Xray...
as it is bracketted under 'radiation' (as in yu just need a bit of lead cover and yur set against most types of radiation - leaving out cosmic radiation ;) )

other than that its all good

Shadow Dancer

12-02-04, 11:58

I would cream my pants if apus got cold spells.

Ice>u

GT_Rince

12-02-04, 12:01

I voted a big ol NO! For the simple fact KK need to fix a lot more things in the game first, before adding in new damage types meaning everyone would have to alter their CON setups to allow for something like this. And as stated above, we only have limited CON points.

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 12:15

Originally posted by GT_Rince
I voted a big ol NO! For the simple fact KK need to fix a lot more things in the game first, before adding in new damage types meaning everyone would have to alter their CON setups to allow for something like this. And as stated above, we only have limited CON points.

So basicaly your voting no to all new idea's that don't fix bug's..

Come on, we're all smarter than that, your just worryed about your con setup, nothing more..

The point is, con point's may be limited now, but the number of effective damage type's is rather low.. How mjany people do you know who spec posion?

The idea is, to make you resist somthing a lot, or everything a little bit.

Nash_Brigham

12-02-04, 12:44

I vote no for the simple fact there are enough damage types in NC as it is. Also on that note, some classes are not tanks,a nd don't have a massive ammount of points to spec a few here and spec a few there. Monk's and Spy's have it real bad in that department, the reason that wearing a heavy <protection> belt is usually paramount for us to begin with. Not like the devourer isn't bad enough as is.

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 12:47

Don't you see nash..

You might not be a tank.. But when a tank can't get enough point's to cover all the bases fully, then you are no longer miss matched, as you can throw diffrent type's at them and crack their weakness..

Nash_Brigham

12-02-04, 12:53

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Don't you see nash..

You might not be a tank.. But when a tank can't get enough point's to cover all the bases fully, then you are no longer miss matched, as you can throw diffrent type's at them and crack their weakness.. Umm, the only thing I worry about ona tank right now is the devourer. But, if we take the devourer out of the equation right now, it's not the tank I gotta beat. It's the fucking PPU.

Prodigious

12-02-04, 12:59

i like the rad damage in the wastelands, thats kinda cool, will add an extra dimension to fights with wb's when you HAVE to heal every know and then, if its only a little to, it would mean apu's had to carry medkits while solo'ing. even if they use terrain they got to watch their health.

i dunno i kinda like that one, not sure bout rest though

Nash_Brigham

12-02-04, 13:01

Originally posted by Prodigious
i like the rad damage in the wastelands, thats kinda cool, will add an extra dimension to fights with wb's when you HAVE to heal every know and then, if its only a little to, it would mean apu's had to carry medkits while solo'ing. even if they use terrain they got to watch their health.

i dunno i kinda like that one, not sure bout rest though We do sufer rad damage in the wastes. If you watch your life, you will see it every now and then go up and down. However, you heal int he time the next hit comes along.

-Demon-

12-02-04, 13:02

Onto your suggestions,

Acid maybe good, but maybe it should be a armor killer rather than damage or something.

Cold, I think this is sorta where freezer guns and spells come in really and haven't been worked well really.
All the other mmorpgs and rpgs I know of most treat cold spells as the the freezing type...in holding a player.

Rad sounds exactly the same as xray, also you ever seen the xray grenades from the laucher yup it stacks on you and says radiation.

This would also mean adding alot more to the con field as it currently stands it's good i feel and you still have people keeping con setups top secret.
I don't think you could expect people to accept 3 or more extra fields without a boost to the con lvls.

You say about cookiecutter setups, but there's still ways to kill people and everyone has a weakness someplace it's just finding it.

Yes maybe tanks have it good in con, but remember in the roleplaying sense they are bred war machines you would expect them to resist most things if they were built for combat.

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 13:12

Demon, nash.. anyone else talking about the Rad damage..

Rad would not be resistable, and it would be low damage in some place's much higher in other's and able to KILL your char on it's own, given your exposed to it at high doeses for a long time..

The idea is to add a few more bit's to con, so people have to choose their resistances with a little more care than pour everything into energy and Xray type stuff I hear yelled about..

he acid damage would not do a huge ammount per tick, but would do it for a long time over many tick's, eacha small bit of damage.. So it's like a tech posion almost..

edit///

Note, RAD would not be a adamage type player's or mob's would use, it'd be a type of enviromental damage, so you can't resist it and you can't deal it either, you've got to heal past it, or get out of it..

Nash_Brigham

12-02-04, 13:13

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Demon, nash.. anyone else talking about the Rad damage..

Rad would not be resistable, and it would be low damage in some place's much higher in other's and able to KILL your char on it's own, given your exposed to it at high doeses for a long time..

The idea is to add a few more bit's to con, so people have to choose their resistances with a little more care than pour everything into energy and Xray type stuff I hear yelled about..

he acid damage would not do a huge ammount per tick, but would do it for a long time over many tick's, eacha small bit of damage.. So it's like a tech posion almost.. Then ppl would avoid zones like the plague,a nd I don't think KK wants to make areas unpopular, without a special suit on, which in some classes cases, means something they can't wear.

And again, NC doesn't need anymore resistances. If anything, cold resistance would be fine, I could see cold based spells being added, otherwise NO.

Strych9

12-02-04, 13:27

First you indicate that people never spec poison. Then you say that people usually only spec energy and xray (thus leaving out fire and poison).

So what problem are you trying to solve? We have at least one type of damage that YOU claim people ignore?

Maybe just increase the number of poison mods for weapons- then people will pat more attention to poison, which alone would do what you are trying to do.

Its not like you can fully spec out against xray, energy, poison, fire, and force right now. Not even on a tank that you keep talking about as if they are immune to damage. Even tanks must make choices about which damage type to sacrafice (which is proven by the fact that you indicate most people choose to ignore poison).

So what is the problem? Why would we need new damage types and new armors to resist them and new imps to protect against them and new drugs to protect against them and new subskills to put points in to resist them and new spells to protect against them?

I read your first post, and it sounds like you are saying other games have lured you away simply because they have more damage types. Is that correct?

And you cant resist acid anyway. ;)

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 13:33

Originally posted by Strych9
And you cant resist acid anyway. ;)

By that logic you can't resist fire, energy Xray or posion either.

Strych9

12-02-04, 13:45

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
By that logic you can't resist fire, energy Xray or posion either. Thats it? Thats your response?

You are so quick to jump on everyone else, yet for me you response with only that? What about my analysis that we currently have, by your own admission, more damage types than people spec against?

And yes, I would say you could resist some of those. Poison you can take and become immune to. People do it all the time. You take small non-lethal doses til your body builds an immunity. Thats not science fiction, thats just plain science.

Energy- not all people react to electricity the same way. Some people can survive being struck by lightning better than others.

xray and fire would require some sort of altering of flesh to resist I suppose, as would acid. Bit of a stretch.

But my point about acid wasnt the crux of what I was saying (thus the smilie) and it doesnt change anything in the end.

Boozbazz

12-02-04, 13:46

yeah man 3 more types is a *little* much, i like the idea of freez and hell yeah rad is cool, but shoot. there really is enough that KK needs to fix right now rather than add some more things that *may* cause even more probs at the moment. BUT, lets just say that there were no problems with Cron right now and they did add, well hell yeah it would be cool, like you would have to specialize in damage type and resistances, and y'know what would top all of that!? a class thats like the nomad ppl who wear that kewl stuff covering there faces who have natural resistances to rad and stuff, good for recycle and things that help them survive withought NPC help and all. but that is kinda off in left field. if i say anything out of the 3 you mentioned are cool, it would be FREEZE. when i started playing i figured they had that implemented already, and man cmon, these freeze weapons do crap damage, i want a freeze weapon thats among the ranks of doombeamer and stuff, there is nobody using a kickass freeze gun like ahnold did in batman!? cmon man I WANT one of those suckas!

japata

12-02-04, 14:00

One more resist type would be enough. Thus PvP would be more diverse as even "noobish" people could beat those veterans if they choose a weapon that eats through their weak defense. This way noobs would like pvp more and not go to planetside or such and pvp-veterans would like this more as this would make them think before hitting that mouse button and blasting away. Maybe this could add a bit more tactics composition to OP battles too. :)

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 14:01

Originally posted by Strych9
And yes, I would say you could resist some of those. Poison you can take and become immune to. People do it all the time. You take small non-lethal doses til your body builds an immunity. Thats not science fiction, thats just plain science.

There are certain type's of posion, which do you no harm in small doses, but when you've got too much in your body it'll kill ya..

And untill then it lies about doing nothing..

Yes you can become resistant to some posions, but you never become immune, just resistant.

/////////////////////

Anyway, I didn't say people didn't spec fire, I just said people pour tone's into energy and Xray, leaving posion out of the question most times, fire get's seen to in armor, now spy's can do this diffrently and pour into energy and fire, or some other resist and use belt's and the PE to boost Xray and foire and such...

The point is, atm, you don't have to defend aganst so many damage types, as the main one's are energy and Xray, somtime's fire as well, depending on how a weapon is modded.. (ignoring the Dev for now, I don't care about it as it's been noted it's prbably borked and why ballance and argure about a broken weapon eh?)

The idea is simply so give everyone the option to go one way or another, resist acid, be weak to somthing else, be resistant to everything, but less so to each on their own..

The idea is also, to mean there are more type's of effective damage dealing damage type's.. People tend not to spec posion because only a few weapon's are able to deal it out, APU's can dish it out but theyhave better spell's for damage faster normaly.

It's to level the playing feild, by making it wider.. if you understand that better.. As it don't matter if your defence is 50 men strong, if the field is wide enough..

Scikar

12-02-04, 14:08

I don't really like it. With resist setups as they are currently, you can just about reach the specialisation points to gain a decent bonus. With another damage type in, you'll either be vulnerable to a specific damage type or vulnerable to everything (since you won't hit any specialisation bonuses any more). If something like this was added in, I'd just carry an extra weapon dealing the new damage type. If I don't ******** someone with one weapon, chances are I will with another. So there wouldn't really be much point in skilling resists at all. That leads to PvP being almost entirely offense based rather than defense based, and that means Tanks and APUs will rule all.

Mingerroo

12-02-04, 14:09

We don't need more damage types in my opinion, we just need more weapons of the same TL with different bonuses/disadvantages.

For example, there are huge gaps where if you don't have tech points you have to level using a fairly crap pistol.

There should, all of the same TL, be shotguns, assault rifles and such, rather than spacing them out in such a way that most people of the same level use the same weapon.

Steve

Q`alooaith

12-02-04, 14:13

Scikar..

That's basicaly one of the point's, though you miss the fact that tank's will either be able to resist all a bit, or a few a fair lot..

So the idea come's into it's own, while you might be able to do great damage with diffrent weapon's, the range's and RoF might make them a worse choice, say somone's hitting you from long range so you pull a laser cannon (or a plasma wave whatever), they are resistant to energy and so you pull your flamer, but your too far off for that, but they are only hitting you with thing's you are resistant to..

The idea is to make PvP more Rock paper sisor's, rather than how it is now, which is, rock rock rock...

Scikar

12-02-04, 14:23

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Scikar..

That's basicaly one of the point's, though you miss the fact that tank's will either be able to resist all a bit, or a few a fair lot..

So the idea come's into it's own, while you might be able to do great damage with diffrent weapon's, the range's and RoF might make them a worse choice, say somone's hitting you from long range so you pull a laser cannon (or a plasma wave whatever), they are resistant to energy and so you pull your flamer, but your too far off for that, but they are only hitting you with thing's you are resistant to..

The idea is to make PvP more Rock paper sisor's, rather than how it is now, which is, rock rock rock...

You don't understand. It wouldn't be rock paper scissors. Rock paper scissors is like Age of Empires 2: Infantry get killed by guard towers get killed by siege weapons get killed by cavalry get killed by pikemen get killed by infantry get killed by guard towers etc..

If a new damage type was implemented I'd just carry around another CS. I already have two, I wouldn't find it too hard to find a weapon dealing the new damage type. If someone goes for a balanced setup, they won't achieve it because they lose so much from the specialisation bonus not kicking in. So everyone will be forced to be weak to something. Then I fire one burst from 1 CS, if it does loads of damage stick to that, if not switch to second CS, try again. That's not rock paper scissors. That's just adding extra hassle, weakening new players vs vets, and screwing with balance overall.

Strych9

12-02-04, 15:17

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
There are certain type's of posion, which do you no harm in small doses, but when you've got too much in your body it'll kill ya..

And untill then it lies about doing nothing..

Yes you can become resistant to some posions, but you never become immune, just resistant.Uh... and in the game you never become immune either. Where on earth did the notion of immunity come into play in this discussion. You said poison cannot be resisted, then above you say you can become resistant.

In game context, I think the types of poisons that the snakes, worms, swamp dwellers etc. would all be known, and thus it wouldnt be some unknown rare poison that cant be resisted.

Bah, why am I even bothering with this? You corrected youself and said people can become resistant, which is what happens in Neocron.
Anyway, I didn't say people didn't spec fire, I just said people pour tone's into energy and Xray, leaving posion out of the question most times, fire get's seen to in armor, now spy's can do this diffrently and pour into energy and fire, or some other resist and use belt's and the PE to boost Xray and foire and such...

The point is, atm, you don't have to defend aganst so many damage types, as the main one's are energy and Xray, somtime's fire as well, depending on how a weapon is modded.. (ignoring the Dev for now, I don't care about it as it's been noted it's prbably borked and why ballance and argure about a broken weapon eh?)But I say you are wrong.

You do have to spec against many damage types. Force, Energy, Fire, Poison, and Xray. You CAN get SUPERB protection in those but NOT all at once. If a TANK... best Con and Armor in the game... IGNORES body health and agility and endurance and ONLY specs resists, he can cap out all of those except one, which will be at 50. (i.e. 114 in the others, 50 in one). Now, we know that a tank cannot have a zero in agility and health, so thats outta the question.

So where are you getting the idea that all runners can easily protect against all damage types?

If people DID have it easy now, would you see so much whining about the devourer? Or why everyone is afraid of seeing more poison mods for weapons?

Its because people do NOT have it easy now, and can NOT spec against every possible attack anyway.

People ALREADY must choose what to specialize in. Everyone else moreso than tanks perhaps, but everyone STILL must make choices.
The idea is simply so give everyone the option to go one way or another, resist acid, be weak to somthing else, be resistant to everything, but less so to each on their own..People already have options like that.
The idea is also, to mean there are more type's of effective damage dealing damage type's.. People tend not to spec posion because only a few weapon's are able to deal it out, APU's can dish it out but theyhave better spell's for damage faster normaly.Right, so boost poison mods and damage instead, and now every play in the game faces huge decisions about resists (most already do) without having to add new spells, imps, weaps, mods, and con subskills.
It's to level the playing feild, by making it wider.. if you understand that better.. As it don't matter if your defence is 50 men strong, if the field is wide enough.. You havent shown me yet that its not wide enough.

You say that people need to make choices when speccing con, yet you indicate that people choose not to spec poison.

So do people have choices now or dont they?

Fire up skill manager, and pick ANY runner class. Then assume you will be going 1v1 in that class against a tank. You have no idea what that tank uses... modded CS, modded Devourer, modded whatever... or how it will be modded. Or assume you will be going up against an APU.

Show me the easy, choice-free con setups (including ideal imps and armor) so that you will be prepared to face any encounter.

If you can show me setups that protect you against every possible attack, then I will concede that we need more options so that people have to make choices.

If you cannot show me those setups, then I stand behind the idea that currently, as is, in Neocron, runners DO have to make choices because not even a tank can spec againt the EXISTING damage types very well.

GT_Rince

12-02-04, 16:05

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
So basicaly your voting no to all new idea's that don't fix bug's..

Come on, we're all smarter than that, your just worryed about your con setup, nothing more..

The point is, con point's may be limited now, but the number of effective damage type's is rather low.. How mjany people do you know who spec posion?

The idea is, to make you resist somthing a lot, or everything a little bit.

You know what, you get on my fuckin nerves - you HATE the idea that anyone should disagree with you and you will ague the toss all the way. I STILL think that KK should fix bugs rather than add in more damage types. What a waste of time! Pathetic...

And I spec poison for all my chars as does everyone in my clan - just because you are narrowminded!

:rolleyes:

ezza

12-02-04, 16:09

nah not down with this idea, we have force cons resists that cant be fully spec'd anyway, you want to add more, that will mess spies and monks up badly, leaving tanks as the only once who could take anydamage and even then they would still drop like files.

why add more need for having more resists when there isnt a problem in that area of the game.

as someone said already even tanks have a cons weakness you just gotta find it.

the majority are going against this idea, so you may as well give up on it

Clyde

12-02-04, 16:33

you forgot the infamous psi damage type ;)

I agree with you that there needs to be more dmg types, but if theres more damage types, then there should be more class types. Because heres the problem, as of right now, everybody and theyre momma can do each dmg type except spys cant do posion dmg unless they used a self constructed spray can and psis cant do peicing unless they use a pistol/ rifle :rolleyes: . So all it would do is make a apus job even easier. Heres a example as of right now.

I scroll into pepper park, I always carry posion beam, fire beam and energy beam. When ever i get into a battle with someone, i switch spells to see what hes weak to, i do a shot of energy then fire then posion. Ofcoase ill use the one that hes weak to on him after i did my test.

Now lets change the senario (not spells right i dont think hehe), with lets say 3 more dmg types, cold, acid and rad. Since theyre not enough con to add some in those, the person will be weak to basically all types and he'll be even weaker in 1 type.

So, If new damage types do make theyre way in the game, there would need to be a

1) constitution increase, which would need masive balancing
2) new type of classes, for example, apu/ppu/exotic, Pistol/rifle/Chemical? ( :wtf: )

Not only alot of time and balaning issues, but still i do agree we need more shit

Strych9

12-02-04, 16:41

Originally posted by Clyde
Because heres the problem, as of right now, everybody and theyre momma can do each dmg type except spys cant do posion dmg unless they used a self constructed spray can and psis cant do peicing unless they use a pistol/ rifle :rolleyes: I disagree. Monks dont have enough Con to spec for jack squat- and they all rely on PPUs to keep them alive not their resists. An unbuffed monk will only have SEMI decent energy resists, and thats it.

An unbuffed Spy and PE wont have decent resists either... but at least the PE can self-buff with a crappy shelter, which helps his cause.

The tank can have decent resist. If a tank wants to truly resist any one damage type they can... two at the most... but not all four Con resists at once.

Zanathos

12-02-04, 17:47

Having more damage types is always nice.

BUT, you have to either A, give us more con points, or B, weaken all the weapons in the game so that they dont do massive damage to us because we now have our points in new resists.

Why do you think the devourer did so much damage (and still does) when it first came out? POISON DAMAGE!

yes that thing that hardly anyone worries about.

Thats why the Devourer did a lot of damage.

I've realized this and have gotten poison resisatnce on my tank and ppu. (my spy will have some, but not alot, my PE has none almost)

to be honest, I couldnt care. Just as long as the game is rebalanced.

Clownst0pper

12-02-04, 17:50

EARTH, WIND, FIRE, WATER, HEART!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NEOCRON!

Clyde

12-02-04, 17:53

Originally posted by Strych9
I disagree. Monks dont have enough Con to spec for jack squat- and they all rely on PPUs to keep them alive not their resists. An unbuffed monk will only have SEMI decent energy resists, and thats it.

An unbuffed Spy and PE wont have decent resists either... but at least the PE can self-buff with a crappy shelter, which helps his cause.

The tank can have decent resist. If a tank wants to truly resist any one damage type they can... two at the most... but not all four Con resists at once.

umm. I think you just glanced at my post and didnt comprehend it, I said everyone can DO, as in the damage they can do by theyre wep/spells. I said nothing about everyone can RESIST

LTA

12-02-04, 18:04

Originally posted by Zanathos

Why do you think the devourer did so much damage (and still does) when it first came out? POISON DAMAGE!

Dunno thought it was the direct dmg of fire meself.
I've seen pure fire being just as evil as wargas O_o

Clownst0pper

12-02-04, 18:06

Sorry but this is a shit idea.

Most tanks can barely spare the points to include poison, more resists would flood the spec lines.

Its neocron, not bellquest :o

Strych9

12-02-04, 18:09

Originally posted by Clyde
umm. I think you just glanced at my post and didnt comprehend it, I said everyone can DO, as in the damage they can do by theyre wep/spells. I said nothing about everyone can RESIST You are right- I thought in saying "do" you meant "can resist for"... hehe. My bad. Forget my post. :)

QuantumDelta

12-02-04, 18:20

Oddly enough, I'm not going to say no, because I dislike the idea, quite the contrary, I like the idea(though the damage types could do with a little more thought :p).

However, I'm going to say no, because this would feck over three classes, more than any others.

Tanks, APUs and Spies would get screwed by this far more than PEs, PPUs, or Hybrids.

I don't see it as fair, and I don't see it as helping balance...
It would just further expand the (at the moment very) small defencive advantage PEs get over Tanks.

Dru Blood

12-02-04, 19:53

yes! certain ammo mods like acid could be a mixture of fire and poison damage without the primary damage ie peircing or energy.

would be nice to see extra ammo mods added to game in the future,

i vote yes.

Strych9

12-02-04, 20:14

Originally posted by Dru Blood
yes! certain ammo mods like acid could be a mixture of fire and poison damage without the primary damage ie peircing or energy.

would be nice to see extra ammo mods added to game in the future,

i vote yes. If "acid" just does fire and poison but not a new type of damage called "acid" then there is no point in bothering with it. Just come out with fire/poison mods.

The point here Dru is that there would be a whole NEW type of damage called acid which isnt fire/poison... its acid. So now your con points would be divided between health, athletics, energy, xray, fire, poison, AND acid. Actually, per the original post, you would have to divide Con points between health, athletics, energy, xray, fire, poison, acid, cold, and rad.

Now do you see why people dont like the idea? Could YOU spec your con to cover that many resists and still have any resists worthwhile?

Nash_Brigham

12-02-04, 21:58

Everytime Q has an idea, he seems to think it is perfect. This one is not. I play a monk, and right now, I am going to be lucky if I survive any PvP encounters with anyone right now, just because I got one of two choices. Spread what few points i got thinky over my resistances after I get some hlt and agility, or just throw it all into one resistance and pray for the best :wtf: Yeah, as a monk I have a whole lot of choices here.

I want to at least play in PvP a few rounds at it, not get shot down in two or three shots.

QuantumDelta

12-02-04, 22:25

Originally posted by Nash_Brigham
Everytime Q has an idea, he seems to think it is perfect. This one is not. I play a monk, and right now, I am going to be lucky if I survive any PvP encounters with anyone right now, just because I got one of two choices. Spread what few points i got thinky over my resistances after I get some hlt and agility, or just throw it all into one resistance and pray for the best :wtf: Yeah, as a monk I have a whole lot of choices here.

I want to at least play in PvP a few rounds at it, not get shot down in two or three shots. Nash... I'm getting the impression you're not particularly /good/ at being an APU o_O
either that or you aren't wearing any armor...or.....something........... uhh...right? o_O

ServeX

12-02-04, 22:28

nope, take out resists imo and have preset values depending on constitution level.

DestructionUK

12-02-04, 22:30

i voted no to new damage type however the idea of mix damage types with new names seems much more viable like Fire/poison, X-ray/fire, Force/X-ray, Nachos/Cheese.... the list goes on...

QuantumDelta

12-02-04, 22:32

Originally posted by ServeX
nope, take out resists imo and have preset values depending on constitution level. Ehh, Serve, that's a nice idea, would make things easier to balance but probably never get done.

Would take a lot of the challenge outta setups though and make the best hearts the +CON ones o_O

zii

12-02-04, 22:36

background radiation damage could just implemented as a mixture between Xray and fire (heat) damage. It means as you trappe across the wastelands you have to swallow lots of medipacks and/or buff. Nice idea to make it realistic, but annoying.

Forget My Name

12-02-04, 22:39

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Don't you see nash..

You might not be a tank.. But when a tank can't get enough point's to cover all the bases fully, then you are no longer miss matched, as you can throw diffrent type's at them and crack their weakness..

Dont fucking bother messing with this idea.

Awesome idea, but no one will want it, cuz as of right now, everyone can set up con and have MAYBVE one main weakness.

If you introduce more things, people might have, gasp, more than just poison or xray as a weakness.

Forget trying to make this game more rpg than fps, the community wont allow it.

Strych9

12-02-04, 22:50

Originally posted by Forget My Name
Dont fucking bother messing with this idea.

Awesome idea, but no one will want it, cuz as of right now, everyone can set up con and have MAYBVE one main weakness.

If you introduce more things, people might have, gasp, more than just poison or xray as a weakness.

Forget trying to make this game more rpg than fps, the community wont allow it. Not sure how it would be more RPG with having 9 different damage types to protect against instead of 6.

We want our choices to matter. We want our gun choice to matter and our resist setup to matter. That is part of what makes an RPG good.

Having 9 resist in the game- 7 of them in one skill along with athletics and health- means our resist choices wont matter very much... or at least not as much as they do now. Sure you can still isolate one or two... but beyond that it is pointless. Unless you get REAL lucky in an individual encounter, your resists will matter very little.

How do you see that having this many more subskills in Con would result in this being a better RPG?

cRazy2003

12-02-04, 23:50

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I would cream my pants if apus got cold spells.

Ice>u

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM RIGHT!

lol

Nash_Brigham

13-02-04, 00:22

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Nash... I'm getting the impression you're not particularly /good/ at being an APU o_O
either that or you aren't wearing any armor...or.....something........... uhh...right? o_O I wear armor. But considering a devourer kills me in 3 shots with over 250 hlt, what is there to say I am good about or not. There is jsut no way to survive that. Anything else, I am fine with.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 00:33

Originally posted by Nash_Brigham
I wear armor. But considering a devourer kills me in 3 shots with over 250 hlt, what is there to say I am good about or not. There is jsut no way to survive that. Anything else, I am fine with. Why is your health so low? o_O

Nash_Brigham

13-02-04, 00:46

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Why is your health so low? o_O 43 con and 75 HLT, that's how I got so low HLT, and 50 points in ATH, just for run speed, that doesn't leave a whole helluvalot of points for anything else, even if I do cap my con, which is only 2 more levels to go. Obviusly, you don't play a monk.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 00:49

Originally posted by Nash_Brigham
43 con and 75 HLT, that's how I got so low HLT, and 50 points in ATH, just for run speed, that doesn't leave a whole helluvalot of points for anything else, even if I do cap my con, which is only 2 more levels to go. Obviusly, you don't play a monk. I do, play a monk, thank you.

However I typically look at monks, as with all other classes, from a as close-to-possibly-capped setup as possible.

Try other implants, other armors, use the skill manager if you're not that good at number crunching...

Nash_Brigham

13-02-04, 00:55

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I do, play a monk, thank you.

However I typically look at monks, as with all other classes, from a as close-to-possibly-capped setup as possible.

Try other implants, other armors, use the skill manager if you're not that good at number crunching... Umm, I have. And otherwise, you have speced nothing but poison resistance, or you haven't been face to face with a devourer. Those things hurt right now, and it doesn't take many shots of that thing to be planted. And as an APU, I really can't afford to lose alot of hte implants I got in, mind implants, and everything else is the best I can use for my class, not to mention some of my implants penalise me in the fact of str and force resistance, and my filter heart 1, which gives xray and poison resistance, also costs me some of my constitution, so my hit points don't really hover very high. Decked out in all my armor, even a medium poison belt, which I can wear now, it takes a top of 5 shots to kill me. Not much you can do against that.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 01:05

Originally posted by Nash_Brigham
Umm, I have. And otherwise, you have speced nothing but poison resistance, or you haven't been face to face with a devourer. Those things hurt right now, and it doesn't take many shots of that thing to be planted. And as an APU, I really can't afford to lose alot of hte implants I got in, mind implants, and everything else is the best I can use for my class, not to mention some of my implants penalise me in the fact of str and force resistance, and my filter heart 1, which gives xray and poison resistance, also costs me some of my constitution, so my hit points don't really hover very high. Decked out in all my armor, even a medium poison belt, which I can wear now, it takes a top of 5 shots to kill me. Not much you can do against that. 5 shots is a little more respectable than 3.

Now when you use a little bit before immediate, as your combat range, you should be able to win the fight with the Dev Tank easily.

You don't NEED EXP PSI Cont3 in as an APU, At all, whether you have DS or not, there are other chips that benefit you more, in different ways, yes, it requires a little bit of a sacrifice in another area, but you can boost your defence without a hugely noticible loss in offence.

Your armor covers a whole resist type on it's own, and also adds some minor bonuses to the other resist types, you don't NEED to wear a poison belt, because if you didn't already know the main type of damage Dev does is fire.
Sure, the difference between the two isn't absolutely huge, but fire is also easier to resist / armor up for.

looking at it logically you could most likely improve your setup with a little of what I call "out of the box thinking" but then again most of the best setups aren't, the cookie cutter setups anyway ;)

Shadow Dancer

13-02-04, 01:11

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

You don't NEED EXP PSI Cont3 in as an APU, At all, whether you have DS or not, there are other chips that benefit you more, in different ways, yes, it requires a little bit of a sacrifice in another area, but you can boost your defence without a hugely noticible loss in offence.

I disagree. I consider mana pool part of offence, and it's very important. If mana wasn't an issue, i might agree with you. But as it is, you will gimp mana AND damage by using one slot for pp chip or moveon.

:(

Nash_Brigham

13-02-04, 01:23

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
5 shots is a little more respectable than 3.

Now when you use a little bit before immediate, as your combat range, you should be able to win the fight with the Dev Tank easily.

You don't NEED EXP PSI Cont3 in as an APU, At all, whether you have DS or not, there are other chips that benefit you more, in different ways, yes, it requires a little bit of a sacrifice in another area, but you can boost your defence without a hugely noticible loss in offence.

Your armor covers a whole resist type on it's own, and also adds some minor bonuses to the other resist types, you don't NEED to wear a poison belt, because if you didn't already know the main type of damage Dev does is fire.
Sure, the difference between the two isn't absolutely huge, but fire is also easier to resist / armor up for.

looking at it logically you could most likely improve your setup with a little of what I call "out of the box thinking" but then again most of the best setups aren't, the cookie cutter setups anyway ;) I dunnow hat crack you are smoking, but I will not take your word on it, as I have talked with plenty of other experienced APU's in this game. On that note, as I don't have access to a psi core or APU kami, I don't have many other options. Furthermore, since I am not PP, and not goignt o faction hop just for a chip that gives me +15 reistance, which isn't much help either, not going to worry about the PP chip.

And you seem to be missing alot of points here. One, the armor a monk get's is heavy energy resistance. Big whoop. Most ppl I have been fighting against lately don't bother with energy anymore, it's mostly fire, force, or poison. Monks don't get much in the way of force resistance either, and the imps that monks use knock out a chunk of that anyways. Ontop of that, xray reistance is almost a needed, or poison resitance. YOu can't balance that shit out and have a happy medium. If you spec alot into HLT, you get shit for any resitance you take. And if you spec any of the resistancs, you get shit for hlt. Now, I may have only been playing NC for a little over a month now, but I am not stupid about how the system works.

My character is pretty well set up as far as APU's go, but APU's don't get this uber resistance pool to draw from. Now, if you have a perfect, you can't be killed in five shots set up, plz do share it, and the PP chip is not worth my time.

DestructionUK

13-02-04, 02:07

I dunnow hat crack

no i dont know hat crack either....

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 02:22

Originally posted by Nash_Brigham
I dunnow hat crack you are smoking, but I will not take your word on it, as I have talked with plenty of other experienced APU's in this game. On that note, as I don't have access to a psi core or APU kami, I don't have many other options. Furthermore, since I am not PP, and not goignt o faction hop just for a chip that gives me +15 reistance, which isn't much help either, not going to worry about the PP chip.
Those, to me, look like excuses.
I was also, not talking about PPR.

And you seem to be missing alot of points here. One, the armor a monk get's is heavy energy resistance. Big whoop. Most ppl I have been fighting against lately don't bother with energy anymore,
Good Tanks use CS still.
Last I checked, Judge was more popular than lib, now.
HL although nerfed shouldn't be ignored.
PN does pure energy.

it's mostly fire, force, or poison. Monks don't get much in the way of force resistance either, and the imps that monks use knock out a chunk of that anyways.
My setups are comprehensive, I don't like to keep weaknesses.
At least not in the new neocron, in the old one before poison was brought back I never had POR, but meh.

Ontop of that, xray reistance is almost a needed, or poison resitance.
More, I'd say.

YOu can't balance that shit out and have a happy medium.
I wont spell it out for you since it did take me a long time to learn how to design stonking setups that didn't require sacrifices.

If you spec alot into HLT, you get shit for any resitance you take. And if you spec any of the resistancs, you get shit for hlt.
Like I said, sadly, you can't go pure PSI Imps on an APU IMO.
Of course since you openly admitted to not having a PSI Core you're already not in the top pvp percentage because your equipment most probably isn't up to scratch.
Let alone your configuration.

Now, I may have only been playing NC for a little over a month now, but I am not stupid about how the system works.
Really?
I realise resists have been explained, and explained again, so many times now, that they are on a platter for noobs, but I seriously doubt that, while you're not stupid to the system you are most probably not as aware of ....tricks, and traps in the trade.

My character is pretty well set up as far as APU's go, but APU's don't get this uber resistance pool to draw from.
Erm.
Obviously it's not, it doesn't even have a PSI Core, now I'm sorry but I class that as _AS_ Basic a piece of equipment/configuration material as armor.

Now, if you have a perfect, you can't be killed in five shots set up, plz do share it, and the PP chip is not worth my time.
No, PPR isn't worth your time.
However if you're going to be so damned lazy as to not continue trying to improve knowing there is better, out there.
And you are not going to attempt to acquire better equipment.
Please.
Stop trying, now.

Strych9

13-02-04, 04:48

QD, why do you and other vets always insist on this dance? Where those not knowing of your con setup are in some way inferior, yet you never share it?

Cut the crap, and simply put in numbers what you keep hinting at. Otherwise, I doubt Nash needs or wants you to keep laying down insinuations in the hope that you inspire him to work on his resist setup.

Show us what the hell you are talking about.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 05:05

The reason I never post my true setup (rather than just example/attempts to teach) is a promise I made to Vett a long time ago.

I still regard myself as bound by that.

Now, this doesn't mean that while I know I have "one of the" best setups in neocron for, pretty much every character class (missing droner spy at capped level, and new hybrid), I think it's as good as it gets and is as competitive as it gets.

Unlike vett I do want other peoples setups to improve to challenge me more, but simply explaining to them what they must learn in order to completely understand character design kinda wastes
A) Some of the game for other people.
B) My work.
C) A Promise.
D) Competition.

Also, the more people LEARN by themselves (with a little coaxing) about this game the more inclined they will be to agree with my more indepth ideas/etc because they have a greater understanding of the concepts that are at work...

Nash_Brigham

13-02-04, 05:07

Forget My Name

13-02-04, 05:09

Dont bother chatting with QD... you wont get anywhere. He won the aurgument. Leave it at that.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 05:13

Not quite.
I told you not to use EXP PSI.
I told you you can resist every type of damage to a degree and still have decent runspeed and HLT (Though I admit I went back and looked with the PA Malus these days it is a TAD harder but bleh).

Shh FMN :p
I'm trying not to be too harsh but I did do a little of respond in kind here.

Forget My Name

13-02-04, 05:15

yeah, I am sorry QD... I am still fresh from the 'stealth' thread with that fool Cl0wnstopper. You know, the god of the stealth 1 and 2 tool.... anyway....

What is a malus?

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 05:17

Originally posted by Forget My Name
yeah, I am sorry QD... I am still fresh from the 'stealth' thread with that fool Cl0wnstopper. You know, the god of the stealth 1 and 2 tool.... anyway....

What is a malus? err negative bonus thingy

Don't worry I found it funny :p

Forget My Name

13-02-04, 05:18

Oh... what does malus stand for? or where did the word originate from?

Oh yeah, why do mutants with rifles shoot you 15 feet away, and off hill tops, while rockets and lasers dont even move you an inch?

Strych9

13-02-04, 05:19

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The reason I never post my true setup (rather than just example/attempts to teach) is a promise I made to Vett a long time ago.

I still regard myself as bound by that.

Now, this doesn't mean that while I know I have "one of the" best setups in neocron for, pretty much every character class (missing droner spy at capped level, and new hybrid), I think it's as good as it gets and is as competitive as it gets.

Unlike vett I do want other peoples setups to improve to challenge me more, but simply explaining to them what they must learn in order to completely understand character design kinda wastes
A) Some of the game for other people.
B) My work.
C) A Promise.
D) Competition.

Also, the more people LEARN by themselves (with a little coaxing) about this game the more inclined they will be to agree with my more indepth ideas/etc because they have a greater understanding of the concepts that are at work... Sorry, guess I am missing where you are doing anything but speaking in ultra vague terms like "you must think outside the box" or speaking about secret info like "you are most probably not as aware of ....tricks, and traps in the trade" or just insulting him, like starting in the very beginning with your number crunching comment. As if the lack of the top secret QD resist setup means you are incapable of crunching numbers. Oh and the elitism- like when he says he doesnt have access to a Psi Core you claim he is just making excuses... even though you also say that "Of course since you openly admitted to not having a PSI Core you're already not in the top pvp percentage because your equipment most probably isn't up to scratch."

It all sounds like one big "nanny nanny boo boo you suck" to me. :wtf:

Biznatchy

13-02-04, 05:21

No and get a new Avatar its ********.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 05:22

Originally posted by Forget My Name
Oh... what does malus stand for? or where did the word originate from?

Oh yeah, why do mutants with rifles shoot you 15 feet away, and off hill tops, while rockets and lasers dont even move you an inch?
Same place as bonus latin iirc :)

....I can't answer the thing about the muties o_O
the weapon with the most kinetic kick in the game is the needle gun and that's annoying in mutie hands o_O

re elitism:
Yea I am on a basic scale.
How can he honestly claim to be well setup when he doesn't have a basic piece of kit?

o_O

As for elitism in skill well there are exceptions that can break that rule but I don't see anyone backing him up saying he's great...

Though I always remember this;
Noob today Vet tomorrow.
it's a simple rule, and it's one my last game followed, Nash shows a lot of activity in the forums since he joined and already has a decent grasp of the game...
I wanna tempt him into pushing further what?

Giving out answers/spoon feeding people is stupid.
Do you see charities giving people a fish?
You see'em giving them a net, to catch fish.

If it were a live convo I'd probably be more forth coming with like ways to go into things but here on the forums the best I'd say is prioritise...but everything needs to be done in moderation, at the same time.

Something my PE taught me.
Needs to be stretched even harder, and further on a APU...

Strych9

13-02-04, 05:23

Originally posted by Forget My Name
Oh... what does malus stand for? or where did the word originate from?I would assume the root is the word 'mal' which just means negative. Malediction, malignant, malnourished, etc.

If you translate malus from German to English using an online translator, it says that malus is german for penalty.

QuantumDelta

13-02-04, 05:27

Originally posted by Strych9
I would assume the root is the word 'mal' which just means negative. Malediction, malignant, malnourished, etc.

If you translate malus from German to English using an online translator, it says that malus is german for penalty.
My bad on Malus :p

Strych9

13-02-04, 05:31

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
My bad on Malus :p Nah, its latin as well. Latin word incorporated into German. Its in Neocron of course cause of the German. :)

Malus is basically the antonym of bonus. :)

Forget My Name

13-02-04, 05:31

oh, very nice. thank you gentlemen.

It is just I havent seen that on these forums for over two years, and bam, everyone is using malus lately.

You guys make me hard.

Oh yeah, good job on the game KK. My wife wants to sleep with the entire reaKKtor line-up and all the moderators.

Q`alooaith

13-02-04, 13:46

Originally posted by Strych9
Not sure how it would be more RPG with having 9 different damage types to protect against instead of 6.

We want our choices to matter. We want our gun choice to matter and our resist setup to matter. That is part of what makes an RPG good.

And this is why it'd become more a RPG..

What RPG let's you become highly resistant to all form's of damage?

It'd make your setup more key, and armor swaping more importaint for PvM and PvM..

You would have a much better choice with more damage types and have to choose what to be resistant to, rather than resisting the most common form of damage. You still could resist the most common form of damage, but then you'd be weaker to other forms..

Role playing is not about uber setup's and being super tough and all that crap, it's about the situation's and how you deal with them..

The idea is simple, make people think more about their setup's and the setup's of their weapon's.. with no energy resist a rare energy based damage weapon will tear you up, but the same goes for fire, Xray and posion.. So more damage type's not only mean's cookie cutter rare's are not so needed, a CS would still be very powerfull cannon, but no longer the only "viable" cannon, this is the aim, to make all resist's worth the same, rather than all worth diffrent ammount's because damage type's are so lacking in weapon's to do thier damage..

So more damage type's, more thing's to either avoid, ignore or try and blow up first.

Forget My Name

13-02-04, 15:22

ok, lets say your a tank with a weakness to poison, xray and fire.....

and you run into a fire weilding monk..... you know NOT to fight him...

You then go get your buddy who can kill the monk, therefore incouraging team play more.

Just like any roleplaying game.... if you come across a fire based monster, you pull out the ice / water based spells, otherwised you are fucked..

but most 'uber counterstrike l33t kids' cant deal with having any weaknesses, so they set themselves up so they have no weakness, and by introducing more types of damage, their uber leet set up isnt full proof anymore.

poor babies.

Q`alooaith

14-02-04, 01:33

I think your looking for the word's

"Fool Proof", rather than full proof, though with a Y and ed, making it "fully proofed" it could also work..

And you've hit the nail on the head, the RP'ers don't realy care if they have to resist 5 or 50 damage types, since you pick and choose what to resist.. It's only the power players, the ones who want to be the best at PvP and kill everyone without challenge that don't like more thing's to resist..

There are already enough stat's and they are importaint enough to make anyone who's just after a FPS cringe away, "wtf, I can't use this cause I don't have enough skill, what's this crap"..

People don't like this idea because it mean's they have to think, and choose.. Though the results are enough for me to call this a general approval of the idea...

BTB, mod's you can move this to BP when you feel like it, it's been seen and people like and hate it at the same time..

Saito Hajime

14-02-04, 07:54

stupid question,
whos the chick in your pic?
shes kinda hot.
saito

Strych9

14-02-04, 10:47

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
And you've hit the nail on the head, the RP'ers don't realy care if they have to resist 5 or 50 damage types, since you pick and choose what to resist.. It's only the power players, the ones who want to be the best at PvP and kill everyone without challenge that don't like more thing's to resist..Ah, so thats what this is about? You are trying to make it so that no one player can be good at PvP yet you cloak it under some sort of RP facade?

If RPers, as you say, dont real care- then this certainly wont be helped by your idea. Looks like you have pretty much come clean and admitted that this is just to overturn whatever mastery a good PvPer might have of the game.

Considering how FEW and FAR BETWEEN the players are that IN YOUR MIND have protected against all damage types currently in the game at once, I say let them have some advantage because of their knowledge.

Under your proposal, resists and PvP become a PURE crapshoot. I.e. you can never be "good" because we simply wont have enough con points to be good.
People don't like this idea because it mean's they have to think, and choose.. Newsflash- people already have to do that now.

People dont like this idea because

1. They think now, and its virtually impossible now to protect against every damage type as is.

2. This idea would mean new spells, weapons, armor, and implants. So on face its pretty impractical in terms of "yeah, lets bring this to KKs attention."
Though the results are enough for me to call this a general approval of the idea...

BTB, mod's you can move this to BP when you feel like it, it's been seen and people like and hate it at the same time.. General approval? Like and hate it at the same time? 73% hate it, and only 11% specifically like it. Seems pretty clear to me.

Q`alooaith

14-02-04, 12:34

Originally posted by Strych9
Ah, so thats what this is about? You are trying to make it so that no one player can be good at PvP yet you cloak it under some sort of RP facade?

I am currently wondering if I should use a stick, or a nine iron to beat some sence into you... You twist the words to your own meaning, and then dislike the new meaning as it feel's foul to yourself..

The idea is to make your choices more importaint, and a GOOD pvper/pker (pvp is combat where both side's know they will be fighting, pk is when one side know's there will be fighting, that's the only diffrence, should I have to explain all the concept's of a MMORPG to you so you can understand them, and in doing so not be able to twist my idea as much?)

anyway as I was saying anyone who's good at PvP/PK will hardly be affected, since the idea is to make the choices you make more importaint, rather than make the CS the uber kill all (I already said I'm ignoreing the dev cause people say it's bugged) you'd have to think a little more.. and also you'd not NEED to use a CS to be effective as a tank... Much the same goes for the APU holy lightning and so on..

Originally posted by Strych9
Considering how FEW and FAR BETWEEN the players are that IN YOUR MIND have protected against all damage types currently in the game at once, I say let them have some advantage because of their knowledge.

DO NOT THINK TO KNOW MY MIND
You know nothing of my thought's or feeling's, or how I percive the world of neocron or the world at large..

Originally posted by Strych9
People dont like this idea because

1. They think now, and its virtually impossible now to protect against every damage type as is.

2. This idea would mean new spells, weapons, armor, and implants. So on face its pretty impractical in terms of "yeah, lets bring this to KKs attention."General approval? Like and hate it at the same time? 73% hate it, and only 11% specifically like it. Seems pretty clear to me.

24% like it, look at the poll again, 12% like the whole idea, 12% like the general idea, making for a whopping 24% approval of the idea, that's a fair bit more than a mear 11%.. and the idea affect's so many people like yourself, who want to resist everything almost totaly..

Step outside how this will affect you, and now look at the "coolness factor"...

Ok now we've plumbed the depth's of your imagnation, the idea is that you don't resist all damage type's with a standard setup.

THE aim is to make setup's either give a little to all resistances, while not giveing a great boost to the resistance, or you can resist a few damage type's with one armor set on, and then change when your likley facing diffrent damage types..

BTW, that's 24% not 11%.. you realy should look at all of the poll, there are two yes option's, one for the general idea, but not the implentation idea's, and another for all the idea's..

Breschau

14-02-04, 16:00

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
THE aim is to make setup's either give a little to all resistances, while not giveing a great boost to the resistance, or you can resist a few damage type's with one armor set on, and then change when your likley facing diffrent damage types..

Besides PvM (where you know Mob X does Damage type Y) how do you tell when you're likely facing different damage types? Do you make it really really hard for people to have more than one option for damage so you know from experience that player X generally does damage type Y?

All I really see this doing is adding a little more randomness to fight outcomes (who happened to pick the damage type and resist/armour setup that most effectively countered whatever the other guy picked.. which could vary from encounter to encounter).

Strych9

14-02-04, 23:01

Originally posted by Q`alooaith
The idea is to make your choices more importaint, and a GOOD pvper/pker (pvp is combat where both side's know they will be fighting, pk is when one side know's there will be fighting, that's the only diffrence, should I have to explain all the concept's of a MMORPG to you so you can understand them, and in doing so not be able to twist my idea as much?)Your ideas are twisted, I dont twist them myself.

How are you making choices MORE important? With 9 diff damage types and so few con points, how you place your Con points matters LESS now. At least now, as it currently stands, your con setup is vital because it determines which 1 resist you will be weakest in. FOr non tanks, its more than one.

With your idea, everyone is going to be real weak in at least four resist types now. Since you have SO many ways to get hurt now, the decisions matter LESS.
anyway as I was saying anyone who's good at PvP/PK will hardly be affected, since the idea is to make the choices you make more importaint, rather than make the CS the uber kill all (I already said I'm ignoreing the dev cause people say it's bugged) you'd have to think a little more.. and also you'd not NEED to use a CS to be effective as a tank... Much the same goes for the APU holy lightning and so on..Just because you assert that you are making choices more important, it doesnt mean you are.

You are distinctly making them less important, because overall, you have a slim chance in having your resists actually help you.

Take your idea and expand it further... it makes it easier to see what I am talking about.

Lets say you have 20 resists instead of 9. Now a tank can spec HALF of them at a level of 50. So half he couldnt spec AT ALL and the other half he can spec poorly. Or he can dedicate himself to 3 resists... chosen at random, cause if he can get full protection in 3, that only leaves 17 that will chew him up. So he might as well pump his con into athletics and health, and not even worry about resists.

Right now, with fewer damage types, YOU MUST ACTUALLY MAKE A CHOICE as to what you will be weak in. Do you leave out poison and hope you avoid the dev and APU monk poison attacks? Do you spec for fire or just count on getting enough from armor, and hope that you dont encounter many fire attacks. Choices.

With 9 resists, your choices matter less, because no matter WHAT, you will be very short in several resists. So at that point, so what?

Show me how you make the choices matter more, not less.
DO NOT THINK TO KNOW MY MIND
You know nothing of my thought's or feeling's, or how I percive the world of neocron or the world at large..I know what you type here- what else do I have to go on? And what you are typing here is that you think current runners can properly spec against all damage types.

BTW, I am impressed with your use of large fonts.

24% like it, look at the poll again, 12% like the whole idea, 12% like the general idea, making for a whopping 24% approval of the idea, that's a fair bit more than a mear 11%.. and the idea affect's so many people like yourself, who want to resist everything almost totaly..First of all, you have an option for yes, fully agree. And that is what was at 11%.

Second, for the love of all that is sacred, 73% dont like it AT ALL. You can break down the remainder however you want, but 73% dont like it.

How in the world do you see that as some sort of overall approval????
THE aim is to make setup's either give a little to all resistances, while not giveing a great boost to the resistance, or you can resist a few damage type's with one armor set on, and then change when your likley facing diffrent damage types..I understand your idea just fine.

First, a little to all resistances is crap in this game. That is not even an option. You are talking 7 resistances in Con alone. Fire, Energy, Xray, Poison, Acid, Cold, Rad. A tank.. a tank mind you, most Con points by a long shot... if they IGNORE health and athletics (which they in NO way could even consider) could get a 62 in each resist. Put in proper points for health and athletics, you are talking a score of 35 in each. Which isnt worth anything. So that is NOT a viable choice.

Second, right now choosing which resist to focus on MATTERS, because you have a REALISTIC chance of not encountering the damage type you are weak in.

Under your system, you are basically GUARANTEED to encounter something you are weak in. Cause you HAVE to be weak in so many things.

At that point your decisions do NOT matter, because the out come is invariable the same.

So again, how do you make decisions matter more?

Scikar

15-02-04, 00:05

Originally posted by Forget My Name
ok, lets say your a tank with a weakness to poison, xray and fire.....

and you run into a fire weilding monk..... you know NOT to fight him...

You then go get your buddy who can kill the monk, therefore incouraging team play more.

Just like any roleplaying game.... if you come across a fire based monster, you pull out the ice / water based spells, otherwised you are fucked..

but most 'uber counterstrike l33t kids' cant deal with having any weaknesses, so they set themselves up so they have no weakness, and by introducing more types of damage, their uber leet set up isnt full proof anymore.

poor babies.

Let's look at it in reverse. You are a monk. You carry a fire apoc, a toxic beam, and a holy lightning. You face a Tank. You hit him with HL, he dies in 3 beams. Why? Because he specced his skills for all around defence and as a result lost any specialisation bonus so all of his resists completely suck. Second tank runs up. You hit him with HL, but he takes very little damage. "Ah," you think, "he's resistant to energy!" You whip out your FA and waste him because he skipped fire. Statistically, only one opponent in four will be strong against all of your attacks because his weakness is Xray.

I thought it was supposed to be rock, paper, scissors, not test randomly until you find the right damage type to hurt him.

Here's a little newsflash for you - people already make these decisions. I always choose to be strong against fire, energy and xray, while being weak against poison. I know lots of people who spec to be resistant to poison - and I waste them with one of my two CSs - I have an xheat and an xray. I know for a fact that either one or both will completely obliterate them if they spec for poison.

This idea will only make the situation more extreme. Speccing resists would be mostly pointless, because if one weapon doesn't waste you in 3 shots, then the other one your enemy is carrying will, if he has half a brain.

If you knew more about resist setups you would probably realise this. So you're either ignorant and don't understand the effects of this idea, or you're jealous of other who do have the knowledge and want to render that knowledge useless rather than learn it yourself.

Q`alooaith

15-02-04, 12:20

Scikar, by the time that APU's shot you once with a HL found it lacking in damage, and changed weapon's..

How many shot's with your CS would you have gotten off?

One maybe two bursts? And that APU might not think to change quickly, having pressed and held to get a few blast's off with the HL first, thinking it might take you down..

Originally posted by Strych9
Lets say you have 20 resists instead of 9. Now a tank can spec HALF of them at a level of 50. So half he couldnt spec AT ALL and the other half he can spec poorly. Or he can dedicate himself to 3 resists... chosen at random, cause if he can get full protection in 3, that only leaves 17 that will chew him up. So he might as well pump his con into athletics and health, and not even worry about resists.

Because people do not run around with 20 diffrent weapon's, or even 10 weapon's modded to do two damage types.

This is the ballance, because you'll be weak to many damage type's, hell if I could think up 20 total damage type's I'd have done so. Let's see..

Xray
Microwave
Beta
alpha
Energy, Electric
Energy, Heat
Fire, Burning
Fire, Heat
Posion, Toxin
Posion,
Acid, corosive
Acid, burning
Peirce
Force, Exposive
Force, Impact

And I can't think of more...

But then how many weapon's would you need to carry to cover all of the damage type's, very few people could do it, and even fewer would, since you'd have to carry it, and it's ammo, and it'd not be in slot one, it'd be expesive so if you die it'd drop to your belt no matter what..

So that's the point, there are drawback's to the idea, but the idea is ballenced, in it's own sick and twisted way.. As the belt drop system limit's what people want to take into PvP..

And with enough damage type's you don't negate resist's, you just make people's armor and resist's a little more vital, resist everything a little bit and maybe you can get the killing shot off with your fav weapon, maybe not..