KK - Serious Bugs in this Game [Archive]

MegaCorp

11-02-04, 04:41

We who participate in Op fights are seriously PLAGUED by bugs: zoning crashes, in-zone crashes, infinite synchs, can't right-click, and can't activate item slots 1-10. Far too many people experience these problems, very often, to handwave them away as poorly setup computers. They are *bugs* in Neocron, somewhere in the network code, graphics engine, database subsystem, application layer and/or wherever. Yes, some people don't have these problems, or suffer them less frequently ... but that does not make them any less real.

KK ... are you planning on fixing this stuff? Ever? The crashes and synch problems alone have been in the game since the very first day you released Neocron to the US market.

Will BDoY have these same bugs? Or, if we simply bite our tongues, will we find them happily resolved in BDoY and have a more pleasant gaming experience, so all we have to do is wait a bit longer???

Any chance that someone from KK will officially respond to this issue to tell us where things stand?

Spook

g0rt

11-02-04, 05:02

yeah i know what you're saying the lag/crashing was horrible today, not fun

Bl@zed

11-02-04, 05:15

yeah, its pretty sad when a low population game like this one, can't even handle its existing population. Whats really annoying is it cant handle a 60 person op fight, and the server seems like its gonna fucking explode. I've played lots of mmorpgs, and they handle upwards of 200+ people in a single zone, nothing more than gimped fps happends in those zones either. TBH i think its the engine kk is using, its way outdated and hasn't recieved a single upgrade since the release. Hopefull the upgrade to DX9 will fix this, and hopefull KK will be smart and get some good servers when BDOY is out. The server problem is another thing that definetly needs to be fixed, hardware upgrade is definetly needed.

Psycho_Soldier

11-02-04, 05:47

Don't forget the... You must relog after retrieving backpack from GR otherwise when you drop a item that appears to be useless it could infact be your shiny new 5 slot artifact Devourer with 3 ammo mods and a flash light.

Ran

11-02-04, 07:33

As for hardware, this was posted awhile back, but at that time:

"Neocron runs on 40 Pentium 4, 2.0 Ghz (Northwood core), 1 height unit machines. Each machine is equipped with 1 Gig of RAM and a load balancer handles which machine does what. The entire cluster is connected to the Level3 backbone via an unshared 1 Gig fibre port."

Bl@zed

11-02-04, 07:37

KramerTheWeird

11-02-04, 07:38

I have never known a program to crash more than neocron, to put it bluntly.

Bl@zed

11-02-04, 07:39

but anyways, those machines sound like the can definetly handle the player base, must be the engine that causes all the problems. Gonna need some faster machines tho if you guys expect to step up the player base, might need to upgrade ;)

RayBob

11-02-04, 08:39

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
I have never known a program to crash more than neocron, to put it bluntly. I have played many games by many different developers from many parts of the world, this is by far the most unstable and buggiest game I have ever encountered.

Psyco Groupie

11-02-04, 09:33

counter strike has had some really crap patches, for crashing anyway - live with it

Marx

11-02-04, 09:40

Originally posted by RayBob
I have played many games by many different developers from many parts of the world, this is by far the most unstable and buggiest game I have ever encountered.

...

..

.

*sigh*

BF 1942 on release? Up until the patch which saved it?

CS, lol. Don't get me started.

Multiplayer Half Life in general - lol.

Early Steam? LOL

Anarchy Online? ... ... ... won't diginify this with a comment for fear of unleashing the fires of hell.

SW:G? Worse than NC, but people still play it because they want to be wookie jedi tamers. Alot of bugs are overlooked simply because of the playerbase size.

Planetside - oh .. my .. god.

Horizons? Beta? What's that?!

Jeez, this list can go on and on, so lets stop playing the "OMG< NEOCRON IST SO BUGGY!" game. We all know it has problems, we all live with it.

Psyco Groupie

11-02-04, 09:48

Can we stop the whine threads in community talk plz - if you have some serious considerations about bugs post in the bug forum(s)

:rolleyes:

angelsenior

11-02-04, 09:49

The synchornising is mostly a problem of different speed connections (ie some players with cable, others with 56k modem or similar) whereas all playersessions dont get the info needed in due time.

Well, as far as I can tell.

I do have the impression of some more bugs released with the latest patches though.

The engine upgrade with Bdoy should help quite a lot in improving gaming performance.

KramerTheWeird

11-02-04, 10:10

Marx, you're comparing betas and first releases of games that were buggy as hell, but now they run fine. Neocron has had many problems that have plagued it for some time, many starting even in beta. Compare them now, or throughout their lifetime. Most have greatly improved, and neocron's have certainly improved but there are still many.

-FN-

11-02-04, 10:53

Obviously none of you played Tribes 2 :lol:

How many other games released a huge "unpatch" to the last patch because it crashed 90% of users machines the second you launched T2, and the 10% it didn't crash had no textures.

Like I said before, I crash *maybe* a few times a week. If I turn my added exhaust fans off however and my case temp goes up, it's crash city. Any of you who have 1.3GHz+ systems and you have some Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway you bought, I put money on it most of your crashes are from overheating. Manufacturers put the BARE MINUMUM in cooling into their PCs to cut costs.

Ever since I added 3 80mm side fans, 2 HD bay fans and a 90mm topside exhaust fan with rpm knobs, I crank up the fan speed and NC hardly ever crashes.

Also take into consideration the time spent playing the game... if you peg your CPU or GPU for literally HOURS, something is gonna go awry if it's not cooled properly. We all know how easy it is to lose track of time in NC and feeling like you do nothing but crash when in reality you've been playing for 9 hours straight with only a few crashes, but at the most crucial times (peak CPU usage most likely), sometimes isn't accounted for.

Drake6k

11-02-04, 10:58

Originally posted by -FN-
Obviously none of you played Tribes 2 :lol:

hahahahaha

Marx

11-02-04, 18:38

Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
Marx, you're comparing betas and first releases of games that were buggy as hell, but now they run fine. Neocron has had many problems that have plagued it for some time, many starting even in beta. Compare them now, or throughout their lifetime. Most have greatly improved, and neocron's have certainly improved but there are still many.

Negetive.

Planetside is still buggy crap. (except now its buggy crap with an expansion!)

SW:G is still buggy crap. (and probably always will be since the CSR/Dev's don't even know how they want the game played.)

Horizons is still buggy crap (Would normally be in another period of Beta right now, but they pushed release)

Retail BF1942 was not beta, and was complete and utter shit until nearly a year later.

Retail steam was not beta, though it has gotten much better since retail release. (point conceded.)

Early CS I can live with, seeing as it was a mod not a game. Half Life Multiplayer... Yeah, it improved real quick. (point conceded.)

Anarchy Online isn't beta, is it? (At least Neocron boots me back to my desktop, AO freezes my comp.)

My point still stands that all game has its bugs - some more so than others... Its ones willingness to turn a blind eye to it which deals in this argument. I hardly have any software conflicts, though I do have connection conflicts pretty often due to my shitty ISP - when it comes to bugs I have to deal with, I have ways to handle it.

Oh, I can't see you and you're trying to open trade? "Hey man, do me a favor and sit down in a chair real quick, then come back". That forces synchonization of data.

Oh, damned tradebug. "I'll hand you the items 10 at a time."

Oh no! FRE. "Was time for me to use the bathroom anyway."

darkservent

11-02-04, 18:46

hey how abt ff11 does that have bugs considerin its on the ps2 as well??

C - Lo

11-02-04, 20:04

I would say NC takes the cake for game that crashes the most. What sucks more is that we all pay $10 a month for it.

Zanathos

11-02-04, 20:09

Originally posted by C - Lo
I would say NC takes the cake for game that crashes the most. What sucks more is that we all pay $10 a month for it.

10 dollars!?!?!?!?!?!

oh wait... im canadian

MrBiggles

11-02-04, 20:22

Originally posted by Bl@zed
*snip* Whats really annoying is it cant handle a 60 person op fight, and the server seems like its gonna fucking explode.

Yeah I've really never got that...the zones are really pretty small, comparable sized to some LARGE FPS maps...and you get like 60 ppl in a zone and everything bogs down.

While if you look at FPS games like MoHAA, you can have near that many people just fine. What gives with that? Bad net code? It's not like it CAN'T be done better, there are plenty of examples, even in MMORPG, where you can have lots of people fighting in the same zone just fine. o_O

Strieder

11-02-04, 20:24

Anarchy Online? ... ... ... won't diginify this with a comment for fear of unleashing the fires of hell.

AO fixed their bugs... NC hasnt, so have all the other games you mentioned (at least the ones i know...)

Thats the difference, NC hasnt solved its problems

MegaCorp

11-02-04, 20:25

If you are not suffering these problems ... well, i am happy for you ... but the fact that you, personally, do not crash as much as the rest of us does NOT make the game less buggy or make it somehow more acceptable overall.

By rationalizing that its okay for Neocron to be so damned buggy because other games have been buggy, that we should stop whining and live with it ... is a sure way to *ensure* that KK never bothers to fix this badly broken game. Afterall, why should they if you guys are actually willing to put up with it? It is exactly your kind of attitude that encourages publishers to ship products prematurely and worry about patching it later, if ever, because they have discovered that they can get away with that.

Well, here is my curse to you ... since you are so willing to let game builders ship you buggy unstable software that they released too early instead of fixing in-house, and then spent little to no effort fixing fatal problems long after the game has shipped, and us paying regular monthly fees ... i wish you the misfortune of never having another stable game *ever*, not in your entire lives hereafter, however long or short that may be. Maybe someday you will smarten up, and realize that if you want quality software, you must DEMAND quality software and hold the developer and publisher fully responsible and accountable.

Spook

lullysing

11-02-04, 20:27

Originally posted by Zanathos
10 dollars!?!?!?!?!?!
oh wait... im canadian

I feel the pain too, but since i fucked up and maxxed my cc over the holidays, i won't feel the pain of paying 90+ish bucks for something that costs 60ish american until i reimburse the CC people.

RuriHoshino

11-02-04, 20:33

Zanathos

11-02-04, 20:34

I really couldnt care about how much i pay for this game monthly.

I dont spend alot of money as it is :lol:

so 14 bucks a month is no problem to me.

well, usually its around 13.50

course if the monthly fee for games was ever over 25 dollars, id give them the finger and go on my merry way.

g0rt

11-02-04, 21:51

Originally posted by Ran
As for hardware, this was posted awhile back, but at that time:

"Neocron runs on 40 Pentium 4, 2.0 Ghz (Northwood core), 1 height unit machines. Each machine is equipped with 1 Gig of RAM and a load balancer handles which machine does what. The entire cluster is connected to the Level3 backbone via an unshared 1 Gig fibre port."

In theory, this is sweet. With the load balancer, it should work flawlessly. But wait..there is a flaw.

I highly doubt they have it setup so that one zone can be run by multiple servers. One zone = one server. Or actually 40 pentium 4's...so more like a few zones = one server. So the load balancing does what it can, when theres an op fight, it ensures that the one server is looking after the one EXTREMELY busy zone, and a few empty zones. But still, the ONE MACHINE is running the entire op fight zone.

We all know its a problem, when op fights escelate to the size of 40 v 40 or BIGGER, there are HORRIBLE problems.

Keep in mind...a pentium 4 2.0ghz is not exactly FAST, im still running a 1.4ghz cpu on my home machine and i rate it as slow these days.

What could possible help ALOT is a few REALLY, REALLY hardcore servers. And have the load balancer make sure zones with 60+ people in them get FIRST ATTENTION by these servers, not like it is now...op war zones with 60+ people get the same amount of CPU as plaza1 with 10 people standing around constructing :rolleyes:

Marx

11-02-04, 22:06

Originally posted by Strieder
Anarchy Online? ... ... ... won't diginify this with a comment for fear of unleashing the fires of hell.

AO fixed their bugs... NC hasnt, so have all the other games you mentioned (at least the ones i know...)

Thats the difference, NC hasnt solved its problems

SW:G has solved some bugs with gameplay. Not their software, it runs decently on good machines, but not on average machines (sound familiar? :rolleyes:)

Planetside, similar issue - also dependence on graphics card and comp setup has caused MAJOR graphics issues. Been there since retail and it looks as though nothing is being done... Would've hoped the expansion would've helped, didn't.

Anarchy Online, drastic reduction of gameplay bugs and exploits. Many people still get complete failures on a regular basis. Connection errors a-gogo. So yes, they've fixed some bugs, but only the asthetic ones.

Once again, I will reiterate. All MMO's have their bugs, some worse than others. All companies work to fix them (As has KK, which you might or might not want to veiw based on how closeminded one is), for if they didn't - people wouldn't play.

Neocron still has quite a healthy playerbase seeing as there hasn't been an advertising campaign in over... a year? If the bugs in NC were truly crippling, would we still be playing it?

Food for thought.

edit: spelling > me

MegaCorp

11-02-04, 22:14

If the bugs in NC were truly crippling, would we still be playing it?
Why, yes, actually. Case in point: myself. If there was a single other mmorpg with pvp as fun and challenging as Neocron i would be gone in an instant. I put up with this totally outrageous shit because there *isn't* a viable alternative ... yet. But you bet i'll be taking a close look at other games as they ship, and the same goes for BDoY.

Spook

Whitestuff

11-02-04, 22:17

NC crashes the most by far out of any game I have ever played. In fact, it is so bug riddled that this happened yesterday. Enjoy my pain:

I upgraded my graphics drivers. Something that is supposed to boost performance. I had to decrese my NC resolution to 16 bit color cause it dropped my frame rate consideribly. That is surprising since I can run modern games at FULL RESOLUTION WITH 60+ FPS (talking UT 2003 at full resolution) Older games such as Q3 I get 150+ FPS on MY OLD SETUP (new gfx card now, much more ram, etc...) On NC, I am lucky to grab 30 FPS in plaza 1. IF I LOOK AT THE FLOOR I get 60+, anything other THAN THE FLOOR, i get 30.

It is this gfx engine and hopefully with the DX9 upgrade, this sodding problem will be fixed b/c as far as poly counts and textures, NC is nowhere near as complicated as others and TBH it runs like it has the Doom3 engine, when it has Half-Life 1 type graphics.

Marx

11-02-04, 22:20

*shrug* I dunno what to tell you guys.

There are people who crash alot, and people who don't.

I happen to be in the 'only crash periodically' crowd - maybe you guys need to slaughter more goats, or get a new altar.

MegaCorp

11-02-04, 22:25

LOL, Marx, maybe we should try your suggestions. Who knows, maybe it would help ... whereas expecting KK to actually buckle down and fix the important stuff isn't getting us anywhere.

Spook

MrBiggles

11-02-04, 22:36

Originally posted by Marx
*shrug* I dunno what to tell you guys.

There are people who crash alot, and people who don't.

I happen to be in the 'only crash periodically' crowd - maybe you guys need to slaughter more goats, or get a new altar.

*polishes black altar*

I don't crash very much at all, only when I run out of fresh blood

*heats up incense coals*

MisterP

12-02-04, 00:21