View Full Version : half of Pluto
im just interested from an independant point of view why people feel the need for half the server size clans.... ie NCF (FF has many alts and many inactives) ... remember NATO alliance?
could you reply why u think this is a good idea... i dont want clan bashing so try to keep it without names etc... but could people explain why having 2 clans per server is a good thing ....
thanks,
Gotterdammerung
10-02-04, 17:46
freedom of choice
P.s. whatever the motivation of the poll is, keep clan bashing or name calling out of it
its not lol
its just all the supposedly uber and vet players follow all the others anywhere they go.
Originally posted by Glyc
im just interested from an independant point of view why people feel the need for half the server size clans.... ie NCF (FF has many alts and many inactives) ... remember NATO alliance?
could you reply why u think this is a good idea... i dont want clan bashing so try to keep it without names etc... but could people explain why having 2 clans per server is a good thing ....
thanks,
the only two reasons I can see is:
a.) to guarentee they get campable items (ala MC5 chips)
b.) to at least guarentee some degree of victory across the map.
what the hell is ncf ?
i leave pluto for like 2 weeks and shit like this happens
from what it used to be like though if ncf if a combined force of multiple clans then im assuming its to compensate for the sheer size of force the bigger clans like pimp and ff are fielding these days
i went to one op war in the past 2 weeks on pluto it was SS vs FF it started fine at tezla we killed ff first 2 attempts next time ff they came back with almost 4 times more players than we had actives in the clan.
so in the interests of server balance i would asume a combined force would be there to bring a large fun battle and also to stand a chance of removing 1 or 2 ops from TG control since ff atm is currently so large its almost impossiable to combat them solo.
anyway i susspect its all about balance
please not i didnt mention any dirty tatics used by any sides eg: nub buffs and stun trapping into walls etc.
Personally I hate large clans/alliances and I think fights with more
than 10 people on each side is boring.
Where is the option for people like me who dont want huge clans and dont join a huge clan and would really love to see more but smaller clans.
im with Rade, i prefer smaller fights.... for lag/fps issues.. plus it's more about skill than spam....
sorry forgot to put in option about wanting smaller fights... but i wanted reasons why people HAVE huge clans etc...
p.s. if a mod could add an option for "i want smaller fights - not supersize one" i'd be grateful
eXo aren't exactly large.
And then a lot of us are all Alts :)
We just stick together because we're in the cool crowd!
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 18:03
Can't vote since there's no suitable option for me. There's nothing wrong with bug clans if they only come to OP fights with decent numbers.
The reason why I dont like large fights doesnt have anything to
do with fps, its just that individual accomplishments doesnt really
show or matter much in fights larger than 10vs10 or so. It
becomes more about numbers and "luck" than skill. Of course it
still matters but not nearly as much as in small fights.
Its because the members in the 2 clans want to win.
What the 2 clans will win from making such big clans puzzles me though.
Dunno and the thing is I can only speak for my clan and nothing about the others... We maybe have 9x players in clan but at least 50% are alts, some have 2 - 3 alts and in real game we are just about hmm 30 or so.
Hard time just to pull off 20+ only if Lore shouts in Vent :D
Think the theme criminals vs city theme is pretty boring. Why cant TG just be a outsider and nothing more. Why does the whole pro city go against them, doesnt each faction have thier on intrest to take care of? Or are whole procity all allied to each other? =)
Think PIMP does it well "that just because I know how they work"
They doesnt call us or we them they want onoz fights but today its pretty impossible if you take over you gonna get zerged most of the times "not allways"
The thing is now. The more Tank/dev + PPU combo you have the better odds it is.
Ohyea tank'o'cron is here to stay.
There is alot of factors that seem to spur on a few super clans fighting for the map. For one its the stupid GR settings. Everyone wants to be in the same faction or clan as the people that are controlling the most ops or the most favored hunting spots. Then it comes down to the lack of power that the other factions have and most players end up leaving their faction in search of a faction that has a already large and succesful clan. I can remember when there were several clans in each faction, and back then there weren't as many super clans around.
So what can be done to stop it? Truth be known i don't think anyone knows. Only thing i can think of is setting a limit on the number of players a clan can have. That would produce quite alot of clans if you limited the clans to under 50 members.
I don't know its just a thought and i'm sure some of the larger clans will have a problem with it.
NCF is NDA and Dominion, and the reason this was needed imo is because we prefered to fight without allies where-ever possible, however when our enemies started to NEVER fight without them and constantly outnumber us to the point where we never had enough on to hold our ops, we felt we needed more players. It can be bad for some of the clans that do fight us without allies most of the time, and afaik we have given at least one enemy back an op as they are honourable fighters who dont use allies and we realise we are too big a clan to fight them now, however to the others, you brought it on yourselves, as nda we have turned up to battles finding 5 clans against us when we are aound 10 members! Yes we will still use allies occassionally where it is needed afaik there has been only one or two situations like this so far. Dominion was one of the only allies we had who would help us no matter who we were fighting, neither of the clans had the power to take on 2+ clans at a time alone and constantly org two clans to fight is a pain, especially when allies cant gr into the ug etc, so we merged to be a power that can fight our own battles on the most part, its a shame our enemies just get even more to fight us now and ninja our ops rather than fighiting for them, however thus far we seem to be doing well :p Now to those clans who are annyoed at our size, if you hadnt all allied to gether against smaller clans this wouldnt have happened, it has always been my view that allies are ok to bring your numbers to that of your enemy, when you use allies to outnumber them, you cant blame them for doing something drastic back.
And i cant speak for the rest of my clan or my enemies but the recent op wars have pumped alot of life back in nc, its been the most fun i've had in a long time in game, so positive things have came from it for me.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 18:15
Originally posted by Rade
The reason why I dont like large fights doesnt have anything to
do with fps, its just that individual accomplishments doesnt really
show or matter much in fights larger than 10vs10 or so. It
becomes more about numbers and "luck" than skill. Of course it
still matters but not nearly as much as in small fights.
Though OP fights shouldn't be fights between individuals at all. OP fights require team work and a good strategic commander for the battles.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 18:19
Originally posted by Cyphor
NCF is NDA and Dominion, and the reason this was needed imo is because we prefered to fight without allies where-ever possible, however when our enemies started to NEVER fight without them and constantly outnumber us to the point where we never had enough on to hold our ops, we felt we needed more players. It can be bad for some of the clans that do fight us without allies most of the time, and afaik we have given at least one enemy back an op as they are for the most part honourable fighters who dont use allies and we realise we are too big a clan to fight them now, however to the others, you brought it on yourselves, as nda we have turned up to battles finding 5 clans against us when we are aound 10 members! Yes we will still use allies occassionally where it is needed afaik there has been only one or two situations like this so far. Dominion was one of the only allies we had who would help us no matter who we were fighting, neither of the clans had the power to take on 2+ clans at a time alone and constantly org two clans to fight is a pain, especially when allies cant gr into the ug etc, so we merged to be a power that can fight our own battles on the most part, its a shame our enemies just get even more to fight us now and ninja our ops rather than fighiting for them, however thus far we seem to be doing well :p Now to those clans who are annyoed at our size, if you hadnt all allied to gether against smaller clans this wouldnt have happened, it has always been my view that allies are ok to bring your numbers to that of your enemy, when you use allies to outnumber them, you cant blame them for doing something drastic back.
And i cant speak for the rest of my clan or my enemies but the recent op wars have pumped alot of life back in nc, its been the most fun i've had in a long time, so positive things have came from it for me.
And/or vice versa :rolleyes:
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Though OP fights shouldn't be fights between individuals at all. OP fights require team work and a good strategic commander for the battles.
If individual skills shouldnt matter than I can make a simple macro
instead of playing the game. If I dont feel like what I do matters
Im not having fun, hence why I dont like PPUs.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
And/or vice versa :rolleyes:
Not too sure what you mean, but if its that for our enemies see the same thing, well possibly, but have they been the ones that have been constantly out numbered for 2 weeks when trying to take back ops? Have they been the ones that had no ops?
And if so we just did something about it, we now have comparable numbers as our main enemy, fights should be even now if we fight clan on clan v them, this seems fair to me as before we needed allies just to have the same numbers as them alot of the time and they would bring allies on top of that. So the answer which would be given would norm be "if you cant hold your ops you shouldnt have them," fine so we got a force together that can hold their ops, whats wrong with that?
Unfortunately, large clans suffer from the "dumb ass effect." Take a clan of 100, and it doesnt matter how many cool people are in that clan, it will inevitably have at least 3 or 4 dumb asses that ruin it for the rest of the clan. Thats why I hate large clans. I think clans in the 20-50 range are the perfect size.
FunkEFerret
10-02-04, 18:31
I won't vote because a couple options are left out. I will however give my opinion.
1 Large Clan has more recources for my trade skillers
2 Large Clan has more chance of ppl being on when I would like to hunt/lvl
the only reasons I join large clans...but I also leave them if they are not helpfull
Originally posted by Jest
Unfortunately, large clans suffer from the "dumb ass effect." Take a clan of 100, and it doesnt matter how many cool people are in that clan, it will inevitably have at least 3 or 4 dumb asses that ruin it for the rest of the clan. Thats why I hate large clans. I think clans in the 20-50 range are the perfect size.
Exactly.
imo its bollocks first FF bugger the balance up then NCF join in oh yay what fun this game is... :(
I pray one day they put a limit on clan members to i hear this Dom+NDA crap oh well last time i looked that totals 96 members or somthing? similer size to FF.
gah people whine about FF buggering the server and then they go do it themselves?!?
What people seem to not understand about FF is at max we might have 50-60 guys in the clan and rest are alts. I know its decieving when you look at the clan but its the truth. I can think of two guys in particul that comprise about 13 people just in the number of alts they have in the clan.
Putting a cap wont really help, Clans would just make huge alliances with each other, it wouldnt be much of a difference really.
FirestarXL
10-02-04, 18:50
Well yes, it does kinda suck and leads to an all-or-nothing scenario with the map. Unfortunately, the only things that seem to work in solving these sort of things are hard limits imposed by the game, any gentlemans agreement regarding this sort of thing is doomed to failure, sooner rather than later.
With pluto, there are three current main super-clans, Dark, FF and now NCF (plus SS to some extent) - none of which can be excluded through reasons of "alts" or "inactivity" - they all have that and none to a massively greater extent than the others, at least at peak times.
Thing is, that's the way it seems to go anyway, you think microsoft is going to voluntarily gimp itself to promote a fairer competitive environment? No, they only do that when the alternative is worse (PR hit, court orders etc), so I see it happening the same way here. Sad but true.
[TgR]KILLER
10-02-04, 18:51
It aint.. no thing to vote for meh..
i'll always be in [TgR].. or if the clan ever quits i won't join another big powerhouse. but with 30 members i aint to worried about that..
Originally posted by FirestarXL
With pluto, there are three current main super-clans, Dark, FF and now NCF (plus SS to some extent) - none of which can be excluded through reasons of "alts" or "inactivity" - they all have that and none to a massively greater extent than the others, at least at peak times.
And Dark <3 NCF true :p
putting things in comparison fang is a total of 15 people now
the clan lists as 65 people everone has at least 2 or 3 alts some have 4 or 5
we are the most powerfull clan on jupiter majority of fights is like 10 of us vs 25+ we win some we loose some
you dont have to be a big clan to beat people even ones that use dirty tricks you just have to have the best players with the best equipment
on pluto however it appears more and more who has the most numbers and who can bring the most allies
i love big fights that go on for hours but i also believe clan size should be limited to no more than 50 people
I think a hard cap of 50 members would be the best thing to help the game. Alliances would be some sort of a problem but alliances always come and go anyways so that won't become a factor. Also clans don't call on allies unless they are really needed and there is always confusion then. I would much rather have 3 clans allied than have one large force.
A hard cap of 50 members per clan wouldn't help the current situation as most clans already have other that. But looking towards the future it would greatly benefit everyone. As the numbers would dwindle in the large clans and eventually make for an interesting looking map when you see a multi-colored map instead of the usual 3 or 4 colors
Go to Venus :D lol first time I had to count the number of factions that hold OP:s was a nice sight ;)
Perhaps a hard cap would be great (70 though not 50), or even a check box beside 'alts' so a more accurate impression of the player size of a clan is built up.
as for pimp being a huge clan, dont be silly :P
we are getting bigger again, but in reality we help out FF as it is massively outnumbered.
superclans are strangling the life out of pluto, soon it will end up 1 clan vs the other
and when 1 clan controls the map?....
well done, you've murdered pluto.
cheers
Originally posted by evs
Perhaps a hard cap would be great (70 though not 50), or even a check box beside 'alts' so a more accurate impression of the player size of a clan is built up.
as for pimp being a huge clan, dont be silly :P
we are getting bigger again, but in reality we help out FF as it is massively outnumbered.
superclans are strangling the life out of pluto, soon it will end up 1 clan vs the other
and when 1 clan controls the map?....
well done, you've murdered pluto.
cheers
Thats how it was untill we made NCF it was Anti-city holding the whole map:rolleyes:
Originally posted by evs
but in reality we help out FF as it is massively outnumbered.
:lol: you dont actually believe that do you? At the big fights at the weekend when i checked numbers ff had 21 we had 23, i wouldnt call 2 more massively and does that other 2 require 4 more clans?
Anyway these points aside the disscussion about pluto should be kept in game, this thread is about finding out why people like large clans or feel they are justified, by highlighting a few clans its just going to start a flame war.
Psycho Killa
10-02-04, 19:26
Small guirella warfare clans made up of good fighters are always better then the 200 member clans.
Thank god a team of 10 people who work together alot can kill legions of dumbasses who dont use team work!
I agree that anti city held most of the map.
Then again Crahn and TG are enemies, so fights reg occurred by
them and Crahn pretty much held its ops, and TG held theirs.
The majority was held by one faction but they didnt get overly greedy and try and take all the ops :rolleyes:
TT has also nearly always held the top right corner until recently, where BD has moved in slightly (which was some of TT)
I can understand the need to create an alliance to take some of the ops, but trying to dominate the map is just ruining the play.
imo of course
as for cyphors comment - believe what you will, ive checked with my own eyes
:rolleyes:
Mumblyfish
10-02-04, 19:33
At least SXR is hostile to every last one of the buggers.
Here we come to save the daaaaaaaay!
Originally posted by evs
I can understand the need to create an alliance to take some of the ops, but trying to dominate the map is just ruining the play.
err we have 3 ops atm, and 5 primary ops in total how does that dominate the map? How does that ruin play? If you look at the map some of the tt ops are ss not ncf...
Edit: And in-game atm ncf have 9 on ff have 8, pretty balanced is it not?
This is real numbers, how about we count the ff ops then :rolleyes: We dont dominate the map our enemies do atm, since your their allies though you forget to mention that.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 19:49
Originally posted by Rade
If individual skills shouldnt matter than I can make a simple macro
instead of playing the game. If I dont feel like what I do matters
Im not having fun, hence why I dont like PPUs.
Well, I said wrong. Individual skills in teamworking matter. But not individual actions. Well, they might matter sometimes but they shouldn't. OP fights are supposed to be wars not some duels over territories after all. Teamworking is damn hard... zerging without skills is a whole different story though.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 19:51
Originally posted by Cyphor
Not too sure what you mean, but if its that for our enemies see the same thing, well possibly, but have they been the ones that have been constantly out numbered for 2 weeks when trying to take back ops? Have they been the ones that had no ops?
And if so we just did something about it, we now have comparable numbers as our main enemy, fights should be even now if we fight clan on clan v them, this seems fair to me as before we needed allies just to have the same numbers as them alot of the time and they would bring allies on top of that. So the answer which would be given would norm be "if you cant hold your ops you shouldnt have them," fine so we got a force together that can hold their ops, whats wrong with that?
Beeing not able to take/hold OPs doesn't justify anyone to zerg my dear noob. FF hasn't been zerging for ages now and still ppl have this weird image that if they lose fighting against FF they just got zerged. Everyone knows the truth and still no one believes it. Think about it.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Beeing not able to take/hold OPs doesn't justify anyone to zerg my dear noob. FF hasn't been zerging for ages now and still ppl have this weird image that if they lose fighting against FF they just got zerged. Everyone knows the truth and still no one believes it. Think about it.
And thats a fact... All zerg we did last night was with ONE <----- ONE!!!!!!!!!!!! other runner in our team and that was pshyco soldier "think I got that right :D" from PIMP and no one more.
If you call clan + 1 peep a zerg thing you need to log in more often..
[EDIT] didnt mean you •Super|\|ova• :D :p
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Beeing not able to take/hold OPs doesn't justify anyone to zerg my dear noob. FF hasn't been zerging for ages now and still ppl have this weird image that if they lose fighting against FF they just got zerged. Everyone knows the truth and still no one believes it. Think about it.
Untill this weekend no city clans had held ops for a week o_O we are simply taking the ops which we had before now we have the force to do so, TT held the north of the map for months, we loose it for a week or two and suddenly we're ruining the game by taking it back o_O It isnt zerging its taking back the ops we previously held, we're just doing it all at once whats the difference between doing it all in a night or doing it over a week? Also the only op we took which we hadnt previously taken was Mcpherson which we gave back as we know spirit cant fight a clan our size alone so it would be unfair to take their only op. And the reason ff hasnt zerged in ages is because they had noone to zerg, 85% of the map was held by them or their allies.
Originally posted by evs
I can understand the need to create an alliance to take some of the ops, but trying to dominate the map is just ruining the play.
We dont endevour to:rolleyes: we have decided on 5 core Ops.. since we merged ive played sum of the funnest and longest Op wars in my time in neocron;)
Originally posted by t0tt3
And thats a fact... All zerg we did last night was with ONE <----- ONE!!!!!!!!!!!! other runner in our team and that was pshyco soldier "think I got that right :D" from PIMP and no one more.
If you call clan + 1 peep a zerg thing you need to log in more often..
[EDIT] didnt mean you •Super|\|ova• :D :p
Then congrats do that more often and i can see some great op wars in the future on pluto :cool:
ok
ill set it straight about NCF
its quite simple my dears...
heres how it is
over the past few weeks, NDA and Dominion have been fighting together, weve rarely fought with dark or SS, Just NDA and Dominion, and that was to get even numberd fights with FF. NDA and Dominion were what you would call normal size clans. Ant the fights were good, the majority of them WERE even numbers and alot of the llama turret dropping dissapeared. now, unless your just irish or something, you would realise that when NDA and Dominion merged together, they would essentially be the same force O_o 1 + 1 = 2 and not 1 + 1 = 3 O_o geddit ?
Some people are blowing their fuckin nut over the fact that the combined combat force of NDA and Dominion is at 92 Members. yet there is NO change in the total ammount of active players as its the same 2 clans that fought together anyhow. we have merged under the 1 clan name and 1 clan key so that we have better communication via clan chat and comms.
Nothing has changed, theres no extra people fighting for the city side as there was before, not like weve gone and taken any FF members now is it :rolleyes:
FF are not outnumberd
it is FF/Silent/MS/PIMP/Spirit + the FA Clans that all fight for anti city
and its SS/NCF/DarK that fight for pro city (DarK dont really fight for 'pro city' they just fight against FF, but you would know that anyhow :p)
Overall nothing has really changed, its ONLY Dominion and NDA that have merged, Our numbers combined have stayed the same, we just have better communication etc as weve merged into 1.
Our main reason for this in my opinion is so that people can stop the bullshit excuses like " waaahhhhh you brought allies" because the numbers were about even with allies, 2 medium clans fighting 1 large clan = even, now its 1 large clan fightin 1 large clan. FF has more allies then us to call on, and has a turret production line thats more efficient then ours ;) :p joke btw if you dont fuckin understand it *sigh*
we have decided on 5 core Ops
which ones?
Originally posted by evs
which ones?
we wont discuss which OPs on here that we intend to hold as 'ours'
we have decided on 6 OPs which we want to claim as ours, not the 3/4 of the map like TG have held the past week or 2 :rolleyes:
Last count FF held something like 16 OPs, yea your a large clan, but why'd you need that many OPs
Theres 6 OPs that we will fight for and keep as ours, just like FF hold cycrow, ceres etc at all costs
Originally posted by evs
which ones?
wait and see;)
*hint* one of each type */hint*
bah fen u post 2 fast
I think clans should be limited to 50 members, and imo that's generous. I've warned Freee that if Silent gets bigger than 50 members at any point I will leave. I hate large clans and being in them. It's the reason why I left FF. And I am totally against any kind of alliance system. In fact clans should be discouraged from making alliances imo.
My vision of an ideal server is one where:
1. Every faction is pretty much equal in population.
2. No clan exceeds 50 members.
3. There are no alliances.
Of course that will never happen. I'd be genuinely amazed if even number 1 ever happens on Pluto. :rolleyes:
btw.. NCF was re-named from NDA so we have a considerable amount of in-active
Shadow Dancer
10-02-04, 20:28
Glyc you really expect people to be honest? :lol:
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
freedom of choice
Uhh and like all choices, their must be a reason for it. Which is the point of this poll.....
Originally posted by hinch
from what it used to be like though if ncf if a combined force of multiple clans then im assuming its to compensate for the sheer size of force the bigger clans like pimp and ff are fielding these days
That's BS.
Bigger clans like pimp? Pimp can barely op fight on it's own, and it's a "bigger" clan?
Pffttt.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
There's nothing wrong with bug clans if they only come to OP fights with decent numbers.
Yes, insects have a right to op fight too. :D
Originally posted by Rade
The reason why I dont like large fights doesnt have anything to
do with fps, its just that individual accomplishments doesnt really
show or matter much in fights larger than 10vs10 or so. It
becomes more about numbers and "luck" than skill. Of course it
still matters but not nearly as much as in small fights.
Right on Rade.
Originally posted by CR@SH
There is alot of factors that seem to spur on a few super clans fighting for the map. For one its the stupid GR settings. Everyone wants to be in the same faction or clan as the people that are controlling the most ops or the most favored hunting spots. Then it comes down to the lack of power that the other factions have and most players end up leaving their faction in search of a faction that has a already large and succesful clan. I can remember when there were several clans in each faction, and back then there weren't as many super clans around.
Exactly.
You are so right, the idiotic GR settings are part of the problem.
Originally posted by Duder
Putting a cap wont really help, Clans would just make huge alliances with each other, it wouldnt be much of a difference really.
Yea you're right.
Originally posted by FirestarXL
Well yes, it does kinda suck and leads to an all-or-nothing scenario with the map. Unfortunately, the only things that seem to work in solving these sort of things are hard limits imposed by the game, any gentlemans agreement regarding this sort of thing is doomed to failure, sooner rather than later.
With pluto, there are three current main super-clans, Dark, FF and now NCF (plus SS to some extent) - none of which can be excluded through reasons of "alts" or "inactivity" - they all have that and none to a massively greater extent than the others, at least at peak times.
Thing is, that's the way it seems to go anyway, you think microsoft is going to voluntarily gimp itself to promote a fairer competitive environment? No, they only do that when the alternative is worse (PR hit, court orders etc), so I see it happening the same way here. Sad but true.
To me SS seems to have decreased in power, probably because of members moving to Silent.
I don't think you can count them as a super can.
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
Small guirella warfare clans made up of good fighters are always better then the 200 member clans.
Thank god a team of 10 people who work together alot can kill legions of dumbasses who dont use team work!
Unless the larger team you're fighting also has good teamwork and fighters.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
it is FF/Silent/MS/PIMP/Spirit + the FA Clans that all fight for anti city
The usual shpeel. First of all who's MS? O_o
Secondly, the fa clans are small Fenix. If you notice, it's always FA+PIMP blah blah blah. PIMP and FA clans(and silent to an extent) aren't even big enough to fight on their own. So sometimes we have to team up with some FF to fight or take ops.
I swear, it could be mostly FF, 1 pimp and 1 FA, and fenix would still say "omg it was THREE CLANS against little ol us, we were forced to merge, honest". :rolleyes:
Anyways, to the topic question. I just want to say that I f*ing hate super clans or mega alliances or mega merges, or any sort of BS like that.
They kill servers. I love my clan and don't want to leave, but we can't even fight on our own anymore. Between having 1 active ppu(who goes on strike and doens't help us op war, because I ask him not to buff me in pp1 :rolleyes: ), not enough hackers, and the tremendous SL loss from fighting NCF in pp and TH, I don't see much of a future for myself in this clan.
I don't like feeling like i'm forced to join a super clan just to get some damn op action. I thought maybe I could just tag along with FF on op wars. But most of the time they say no, or no allies. etc...
I wish it was like ultima online. 4 different factions that are hostile to each other. THAT'S IT! No stupid faction enemy/ally/neutral system in place that makes certain factions better to kill in than others in effect screwing up any possible balance of numbers.
God I hate super clans. It's so silly to have 2-3 "super" clans dominating each server. Of course, for the time being, I see no way to "fix" it.
That's why I hang out at pp1 so much, until a ppu comes of course. lol
But that's why i love small skirmishes so much, because usually it's not a planned thing, and at least for a little while you have decent numbers vs decent numbers.
It doesn't even bother me that much that NCF is a big merger, the only thing that REALLY bothers me is that their a neutral faction. :p Damn you NCF, always making me god red. lol
Oh yea, i found this little bit of "wisdom" in the other thread
Originally posted by Rjn
lol its funny that that was an op war with 3 clans vs nfc and nfc won. pimp silent and ff suppose u had to make excusses for loosing that one rofl oh yeah getting spitit to hack mc p didnt work we just sent 1 melee tank ( fenix ) to fix that one lmao
See? Now that NCF is a mega clan, they can say "roflflflf you brought extra clans". IIRC, it was me, Psycho, and EF from PIMP. Wow 3 members. Then I left a little later on. I can just see more of this happening. You hafta bring a few peeps from the outside to compete in terms of numbers, then get statements like this.
*sigh*
so NCF are gonna kill pluto ? because its DOminion and NDA under the 1 clan tag and are now sizable in comparison to FF who are our main target?
Because of that WE are gonna fucking kill pluto ?
2 words
fuck you
and that goes to everyone of you short sighted fools that think were the first ''super clan'' on the server. were not, were 2 normal sized clans that merged to fight the larger clan FF without ppl using the you brought allies excuse.
MS is mirrorshades. Granted their not big, their small, but ive still seen their members fighting along side Silent etc, and that still adds to the ammount of ppl on your side no ? *sigh*
Look at it this way
Its a 92 member clan (NCF) plus SS that fights for the city, probably around 120 total. NCF has a few inactives as it was made from NDA, plus we ALSO have alot of alts if you hadnt noticed :rolleyes:
and that is fighting a 96 member clan (FF) who have PIMP, Silent, Spirit, CD, MS, THSC, TECH, eXo etc etc who also get involved at times, adding to the total amount of AntiCity which STILL fuck means were outnumberd man for man
Every clan has alt's, that first page on the clan info means dick because on pluto alot of people now have 3-4 accounts, some more. Theres not a select few of us that only have multiple accounts, theres alot of us now, and we have multiple accounts so that we can enjoy playing the game on a server that our friends our on, and playing a different char to take a break from our usual char. alot of people have alts.
Just because weve made a clan sizeable to FF and have won some fights and lost some, doesent fucking mean were killing pluto. We arent going out there to take all the OPs, we wont be taking all the OPs, thats NOT OUR INTENTION were just the only sizeable clan that on our own, can now fight FF... on our own...
ahh fuck it im leaving this thread alone from now on, least untill some asshat flames me then im gonna go for the jugular because some people are too short sighted to look at the facts that nothing has changed, it is ONLY Dominion and NDA under the same clan tag, were still the same ammount of people that fought together, still the same force, still the same numbers, just under the 1 clan tag with better communication and under 1 comms server. *sigh*
Clothing_Option
10-02-04, 20:43
Why have super huge clans
Its called get on the BANDWAGON.
and the two super huge clans are undoubtedly loaded with Alts.
Psycho Killa
10-02-04, 20:48
All I have to say is if you cant compete with the "mega" clans
TOUGH!!!!!
Make a bigger clan of your own form alliances. You dont want to make alliances or be forced into a bigger clan then fine keep it that way but dont expect to be beating other people.
This game is a dark post apocolyptic world where every can kill eachother and if you cant win by strength you can win by numbers its just as valid.
Only thing I hate is enemies allying against neutrals? Thats fucking retarded in my opinion.
I look forward to fighting NCF in the future and I plan on bringing noone but fellow BD with me.
Btw theres maybe 20 people in my clan no more then 7 on that I have seen at a time.
Damn this guy keeps beating me one on one and I know if I practice more I will beat them but instead I want kk to impose restrictions so he cant be better then me.
Thats basicaly the same thing as asking for a clan cap.
O this clan has more members then me and if i form or join a bigger clan I can compete but I like my small clan so lets make kk force all large clans to be small like me whine whine whine whine.
Why dont we have kk hold our hands every where we go?
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
All I have to say is if you cant compete with the "mega" clans
TOUGH!!!!!
Make a bigger clan of your own form alliances. You dont want to make alliances or be forced into a bigger clan then fine keep it that way but dont expect to be beating other people.
This game is a dark post apocolyptic world where every can kill eachother and if you cant win by strength you can win by numbers its just as valid.
Only thing I hate is enemies allying against neutrals? Thats fucking retarded in my opinion.
I look forward to fighting NCF in the future and I plan on bringing noone but fellow BD with me.
Btw theres maybe 20 people in my clan no more then 7 on that I have seen at a time.
I AGREE 100 % also great fight at avenger/emmerson last night great fun;)
he didn't say NCF were going to kill Pluto. he said big clans kill Pluto. IMHO, FF is just as much at fault in this as NCF is. you look at the map on Pluto and you see 3 gigantic globs. You check the citycom and find 1 clan owning each of those globs. You check the online members of each of those clans and find more people online than you have total in your clan. What are you supposed to do?
I usually end up logging a different character and researching some tech parts or something because there's simply no point.
:: edit ::
yeah, I'm not gonna go join one of those clans, as I would then have to disband my clan, and as far as making one big uber sized clan to compete with the others, nobody in FA goes along with that, because they all went FA seperately to have their own little communities. We have 4 hour arguments about how to defend tech haven. There's no way in hell all the clans in FA would unite under one banner with one leader without overthrowing that leader at least twice a week.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Well, I said wrong. Individual skills in teamworking matter. But not individual actions. Well, they might matter sometimes but they shouldn't. OP fights are supposed to be wars not some duels over territories after all. Teamworking is damn hard... zerging without skills is a whole different story though.
And thats what I find fucking boring. I want what I do to matter,
not the fact that our leader has placed my unit which consists of
20 people at the right place at the right time so we can gank 10
of the enemies in the rear or something and hence gain the
upper hand. When large fights happen this is exactly what
happens, its all about number an logistics, not about individual
performance, and I could just as well be replaced by some nib
thats only seen the inside of MC5 but happen to have control of
my char. This is also the reason why I almost always go alone in
OP wars and try to find small forces, that way I can take out an
unproportional amount of people = personal skill starting to
matter again. As opposite to just being another (weak, Im a PE)
gun in the middle of the fray slowly grinding someone down and
having my work nullified over and over by a PPU heal.
In 10vs10ish fights its all about personal skill however, and thats
why I think they are fun. Being part of say a battalion of 100
people fighting another 100 people what I do will only affect 1%
of the outcome, I might as well go roll a die for an hour. Theres
just as much entertainment in it for me except that RL has better
graphics.
Clothing_Option
10-02-04, 20:59
ironically what he said below is true
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
so NCF are gonna kill pluto ? because its DOminion and NDA under the 1 clan tag and are now sizable in comparison to FF who are our main target?
Because of that WE are gonna fucking kill pluto ?
2 words
fuck you
and that goes to everyone of you short sighted fools that think were the first ''super clan'' on the server. were not, were 2 normal sized clans that merged to fight the larger clan FF without ppl using the you brought allies excuse.
MS is mirrorshades. Granted their not big, their small, but ive still seen their members fighting along side Silent etc, and that still adds to the ammount of ppl on your side no ? *sigh*
Look at it this way
Its a 92 member clan (NCF) plus SS that fights for the city, probably around 120 total. NCF has a few inactives as it was made from NDA, plus we ALSO have alot of alts if you hadnt noticed :rolleyes:
and that is fighting a 96 member clan (FF) who have PIMP, Silent, Spirit, CD, MS, THSC, TECH, eXo etc etc who also get involved at times, adding to the total amount of AntiCity which STILL fuck means were outnumberd man for man
Every clan has alt's, that first page on the clan info means dick because on pluto alot of people now have 3-4 accounts, some more. Theres not a select few of us that only have multiple accounts, theres alot of us now, and we have multiple accounts so that we can enjoy playing the game on a server that our friends our on, and playing a different char to take a break from our usual char. alot of people have alts.
Just because weve made a clan sizeable to FF and have won some fights and lost some, doesent fucking mean were killing pluto. We arent going out there to take all the OPs, we wont be taking all the OPs, thats NOT OUR INTENTION were just the only sizeable clan that on our own, can now fight FF... on our own...
ahh fuck it im leaving this thread alone from now on, least untill some asshat flames me then im gonna go for the jugular because some people are too short sighted to look at the facts that nothing has changed, it is ONLY Dominion and NDA under the same clan tag, were still the same ammount of people that fought together, still the same force, still the same numbers, just under the 1 clan tag with better communication and under 1 comms server. *sigh*
Shadow Dancer
10-02-04, 21:02
No it's not, it's full of gross exaggerations. That's why I didn't even bother to respond to it.
Haha, well I'm honored my clan has been put into the large alliance but eh, we don't really fight on the same side as FF/Pimp. And we are fairly small as it is I dunno if we would currently impact a battle enough to be listed hehe. We are loyal to BD only. We have "helped" Silent a couple times but we dont fight along side TG or TS clans, nor will we ever.
I don't have a problem with big clans persay. Like I said they can definitely be a haven for twats and clan jumpers, but if some one can make a big clan with all good members then more power to em. I dont think any big clans are ruining Pluto. Though I think that the players who jump ship to the "biggest and best thing" are the ones ruining it.
Hopefully, extreme emphasis on hopefully, BD will get our act together and actually start sticking together and not need any other factions. That will hopefully add a little more flavor to the op war scene.
Psycho Killa
10-02-04, 21:29
Originally posted by Techi
There's no way in hell all the clans in FA would unite under one banner with one leader without overthrowing that leader at least twice a week.
Well then thats your problem your going to have to work out. Dont expect to compete with the people that can get along then. No reason to force people into smaller clans because you cant cooperate as a larger clan.
darkservent
10-02-04, 22:03
God oh blimey. Wot all of the big clans should do to get it through ppls heads is to basically kick all the alts and inactives, and then itll show all u lot that these clans arnt as big as u think. Seriously u think that there more than 20 ppl from FF fightin in 1 battle at 1 time. I dont think so.
Reality is every clan is small in comparison IMO. Just Alts and Inactives everywhere.
I personally am not bothered wot clan im in - Big or small - I just want fun and be able to do things with the clan. And me personally, m gonna move out to DOY when its released - which has been my plan ever since i switched to TG from TT. Never know i might even make a clan in DOY when i get there - but with a rule of no alts and inactives.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 22:40
Originally posted by Rade
And thats what I find fucking boring. I want what I do to matter,
not the fact that our leader has placed my unit which consists of
20 people at the right place at the right time so we can gank 10
of the enemies in the rear or something and hence gain the
upper hand. When large fights happen this is exactly what
happens, its all about number an logistics, not about individual
performance, and I could just as well be replaced by some nib
thats only seen the inside of MC5 but happen to have control of
my char. This is also the reason why I almost always go alone in
OP wars and try to find small forces, that way I can take out an
unproportional amount of people = personal skill starting to
matter again. As opposite to just being another (weak, Im a PE)
gun in the middle of the fray slowly grinding someone down and
having my work nullified over and over by a PPU heal.
In 10vs10ish fights its all about personal skill however, and thats
why I think they are fun. Being part of say a battalion of 100
people fighting another 100 people what I do will only affect 1%
of the outcome, I might as well go roll a die for an hour. Theres
just as much entertainment in it for me except that RL has better
graphics.
Umm... I am talking about OP fights where numbers are even. And I'm also talking about situations where my clan wins the war due to excellent strategics and teamwork when enemy has more fighters than us.
I also hate the fights where the numbers are way beyond even. Like 6vs30.
Originally posted by CR@SH
What people seem to not understand about FF is at max we might have 50-60 guys in the clan and rest are alts.
Fyi, NCF has a TON of alternates also. And regardless of total members, not all of our members are active, just like not all of FFs are active. Consider both view points when you say things.
Originally posted by garyu69
eXo aren't exactly large.
And then a lot of us are all Alts :)
We just stick together because we're in the cool crowd!
Er, I thought we were all in it for the Paper Hats and Dress code?
:p
No, we're not big, but I doubt there's a closer bunch of gee~er, I mean Gamers, in this game. Coincidently, we're probably spoiled from joining other clans because of our suspicious associations, so I guess we're stuck with eachother.
Well, I either join a local friends clan, or join a random clan just for fun.... And I always join small clans and help em get big, because thats half the find :D
Steve
shodanjr_gr
10-02-04, 23:09
I dont get it....
Why doesnt the poll have an option "Cause i like being there?"
I mean, since i joined ff ive loved it. Its not about the victory (heck id love if we actually got a challenge from city clans, cause again yesterday even though they had more people on than us, they didnt mount any resistance), its about people. And FF has some really good and fun people in it...
Rento Webex
10-02-04, 23:16
............... if you dont like the big clans or your computer cant handle it, Cry me a river.
•Super|\|ova•
10-02-04, 23:31
Originally posted by Rento Webex
............... if you dont like the big clans or your computer cant handle it, Cry me a river.
You do the same for not realizing the lameness of zerging... eh
Fuck.... It....
Quit yer bitching, get in the kitchen and cook up a clan. Stop whinging on the forums that there should be caps on this and caps on that.
I know of a couple of small successful Pluto clans slowly making their mark on the economy. If it really, REALLY bothers you, create a clan and make it your mission to start crushing other clans, make alliances with other little clans (there are many).
Steve
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
Umm... I am talking about OP fights where numbers are even. And I'm also talking about situations where my clan wins the war due to excellent strategics and teamwork when enemy has more fighters than us.
I also hate the fights where the numbers are way beyond even. Like 6vs30.
Im not talking about fights with uneven numbers, the 10 vs 20
example I meant for example in a 40vs40 battle with a deadlock,
one of the leader sends out 15 people to the back door and they
manage to kill like 10 of em, and thus tipping the balance. But it
doesnt matter if Im ubar leet in such a situation unless a
commander has a perfect grip of how good everyone is and is
utilizing everyones potential to the fullest, ie sending a 5 ppl
crack team to take on 10 ppl, but its too much a hassle to do that
in the middle of combat because a commander in neocron doesnt
have much of a chance to see the big picture atm. But as it is
now, a big battle with 20 vs 20 will just be people grinding at
eachother until someone wins, and personal skill and
achievements wont sway the outcome that much. In a battle I
want to see who does exceptionally well or bad, and know that
when I fuck up or do something ubar I effect the outcome. This is
why I love small battles ranging between 2-20 combatants total.
Bigger fights I dont really see the point of, the only person I can
imagine having fun is the commander, and thats if his troops are
uber drilled and can react to orders and he has a method of
getting the big picture.. like a scout drone or something, but
better.
•Super|\|ova•
11-02-04, 00:25
Originally posted by Rade
Im not talking about fights with uneven numbers, the 10 vs 20
example I meant for example in a 40vs40 battle with a deadlock,
one of the leader sends out 15 people to the back door and they
manage to kill like 10 of em, and thus tipping the balance. But it
doesnt matter if Im ubar leet in such a situation unless a
commander has a perfect grip of how good everyone is and is
utilizing everyones potential to the fullest, ie sending a 5 ppl
crack team to take on 10 ppl, but its too much a hassle to do that
in the middle of combat because a commander in neocron doesnt
have much of a chance to see the big picture atm. But as it is
now, a big battle with 20 vs 20 will just be people grinding at
eachother until someone wins, and personal skill and
achievements wont sway the outcome that much. In a battle I
want to see who does exceptionally well or bad, and know that
when I fuck up or do something ubar I effect the outcome. This is
why I love small battles ranging between 2-20 combatants total.
Bigger fights I dont really see the point of, the only person I can
imagine having fun is the commander, and thats if his troops are
uber drilled and can react to orders and he has a method of
getting the big picture.. like a scout drone or something, but
better.
Ah well, I still disagree so I'm leaving it here :)
I can see why people like being in big clans but being in one just does my head in. Ive been in 2 big clans and both ive quit within a month, just too many dicks.
I dont like big fights too, same reason as rade i guess. I like to know that by pushing myself harder in a fight im making a difference, a feeling you dont get in big fights.
I had some of the most fun fights just PKing or OP wars at the start of retail. I remember id log on in the morning and would have OP fights with rade and his room mate against like 3 or 4 people. Though there wasnt alot of action, i know i made a difference and it was fun.
But still, got nothing against people in big clans. They do theyre thing i do mine...
DestructionUK
11-02-04, 00:34
generally the life expectancy of small clans is small once a founding member leaves you know its either curtains or the end of an era. larger clans have much more stability and can give much more support. just because your in a larger clan doesnt mean you cant have a small number of people at a fight.
if your sick of being out numbered and knowing that your going to loose why bother in the first place if you dont like being the underdog.
being the underdog in a battle is fun but imo its not worth trading for clan stability and support.
(DarK dont really fight for 'pro city' they just fight against FF, but you would know that anyhow )
At least someone understands lol.
Originally posted by Nexxy
I like to know that by pushing myself harder in a fight im making a difference. That must be nice I dont get that feeling in any fight, cept for when I was a rifle user. The best thing Im good for is finding and killing droners. :p Jest > droners.
NCF has some think like 90 memebers
and at least 50 % are alts
the top 5 guys all have 3 acts couple have 4
so thats 15-20 of the people acounted for.
and the rest have at least 2 acts so NCF normally bats about 20 people @ a op war if at a push 30 ish
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 01:26
lol, comparing numbers of total people in clans to skew comparisons. PIMP has a number of inactives and we try to weed them out. We also have a large number of weekend players who really just have time for the game a few times a week. At prime we can have 11+ but often it's 5-6 members only. I don't go on very often as I used to anymore, last time I played I hadn't played for 3 days before that, and there are many pimps that are casual in this respect.
The same, online-wise, I think could be said with dominion and NDA. They usually only have 7-8 online each, I don't see them often go past 11+. However combined that means they have 11+ all the time. It doesn't matter about member count, it matters about activity. FF doesn't even have 11+ on all the time, only at their prime. So you may count those who are offline or their alts or those who play once a week but every day numbers are more important, and as far as it looks to me the NCF beats them.
We don't ally all the time, unlike dominion/nda. FF and PIMP don't even have a formal alliance. We help each other when it's really needed, and sometimes even then we refuse help for reasons like wanting to fight alone and have our own fights. So you can't say it's like 22+ vs 11+ because we are not reliant on each other nor do we hold each other's hands.
DarK and SS rarely ever call on allies and I respect them for that. Sometimes they come help outnumbered clans and thats' perfectly fine. It isn't a necessity of them, to rely on allies all the time. It isn't a dependancy so strong that they are forced to merge into their allies. Clans can merge for different reasons of course, such as lacking in activity, pimp has taken a few clans through that, and if we ever start to become more inactive we may seek to merge with other clans. But merging for the sake of dependancy on each other for ally support is a bit overkill.
Well so much for the Pluto doesnt have many alts theory.
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 01:28
how else do you think reakktor is making money for BDoY? :p
honestly Glyc, do you think we're going to disband our clan because of the thread you started? Your thread dosen't mean jackshit to NCF. We are going to stay united regardless of what any of you idiots say.
Threads like this are useless cos its full of Bias crap..:wtf:
It starts of fine then turns into a flame fest can i can see it coming:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ServeX
honestly Glyc, do you think we're going to disband our clan because of the thread you started? Your thread dosen't mean jackshit to NCF. We are going to stay united regardless of what any of you idiots say.
Exactly:).. just play.. its a game get over it:rolleyes: we all get pissed when it happens to use.. i admit that but fight back..
Im prob the worst to get pissed.. but i just get back on ma horse and ride back into battle;)
I could careless how many people ncf have or how many people ff have. The main thing i don't want to see is 2 massive clans fighting it out for ops and all the average clans get left in the dust. Because ultimately that is what we are working for and eventually we will just have 2 clans with 200 people in it fighting for everything.
To Serve : i just wanted to know why people did this? i didn't say it was bad/good etc...... read what you will into this... just because im a member of PIMP doesn't mean i share all views all the time with them.... i have my own brain o.0
i didn't say i wanted you to disband and i'd be embarrased if u did cos of this poll... i just wanted to know in general why people like superbig clans
Glyc
Psycho Killa
11-02-04, 01:41
I just want them to be city admin
Fucking soullight :mad:
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I just want them to be city admin
Fucking soullight :mad:
Mine suffers more:( ;)
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 01:52
Current number count as of right now:
FF: 10
NCF: 12
PIMP: 8
DarK: 13
SXR: 7
SS: 5
Wee, good times. In the interest of keeping this thread alive I won't mention the gross exaggerations and complete biases that many have.
It is my opinion that forcing us into two sides is what causes these problems. The two sides will never ever be equal, there will always be one side which is better then the other. The city's alignments make it easy for them to unify under one banner. That I can recall Only Biotech has a hostile within the city. On the other hand Nearly every anti city faction has an enemy among the anti city factions. BD hates TG and TS, TS hates BD and Crahn, Crahn hates TS and FA. The city hates us, we hate ourselves and the city. This is a bit of a problem : ) It seems to me that on average the anti city clans perform best solo, whereas the city clans are only good when they all band together. There are of course exceptions, but that seems to be the trend. So we're forever swinging back and forth, with anti city clans overpowering individual city clans, so the city clans gather together to overpower the anticity clans.
Personaly I think its silly, there are infact several city clans that can and have stood on their own. I have no sympathy for nda or ss, each has held their ground against uneven odds and still won. Dark is also more then capable of fighting on its own. Yet now we face each of these clans working together against us, with Dominion aswell. That's fine I suppose, it's happened before. We'll survive, just means the game won't be much fun for now.
I seriously don't remember the last time we outnumbered the city that badly. There was always nda or ss to fight an even fight with. I really have never ever seen the anti city clans make an alliance that wasn't in response to the city clans. Almost always, we hafta react to what the city is doing. NDA or SS is beatin the snot out of us, so we hafta help each other out. Then NDA joins up other city clans to continue beating the snot out of us. We look around and sigh. I'm exagerating, using nda as an example, but that's how it often was for us. We really don't call allies unless the city makes us. While previously Pimp/FF would have been a sizeable force, that's hardly the case now. Typicaly we send 3 or 4 ppl to help ff, silent sends about the same, it's mainly just FF doing the fighting. We go try to take ops on our own, but most often that just wakes up one of our many enemies to overrun us. If you feel FF is that much of a threat that you need to make larger organizations to beat them, that's fine. Just don't use the same force to fight everyone else. We only help FF for two reasons.
1) We don't have enough people to take an op ourselves, so rather then be bored to death we let members go help ff.
2) We have enough people, but our enemies have twice as many at least.
Edit: When I logged in earlier today the online counts were:
NCF - 20
FF - 10
Pimp - 8
Originally posted by Carinth
Wee, good times. In the interest of keeping this thread alive I won't mention the gross exaggerations and complete biases that many have.
It is my opinion that forcing us into two sides is what causes these problems. The two sides will never ever be equal, there will always be one side which is better then the other. The city's alignments make it easy for them to unify under one banner. That I can recall Only Biotech has a hostile within the city. On the other hand Nearly every anti city faction has an enemy among the anti city factions. BD hates TG and TS, TS hates BD and Crahn, Crahn hates TS and FA. The city hates us, we hate ourselves and the city. This is a bit of a problem : ) It seems to me that on average the anti city clans perform best solo, whereas the city clans are only good when they all band together. There are of course exceptions, but that seems to be the trend. So we're forever swinging back and forth, with anti city clans overpowering individual city clans, so the city clans gather together to overpower the anticity clans.
Personaly I think its silly, there are infact several city clans that can and have stood on their own. I have no sympathy for nda or ss, each has held their ground against uneven odds and still won. Dark is also more then capable of fighting on its own. Yet now we face each of these clans working together against us, with Dominion aswell. That's fine I suppose, it's happened before. We'll survive, just means the game won't be much fun for now.
I seriously don't remember the last time we outnumbered the city that badly. There was always nda or ss to fight an even fight with. I really have never ever seen the anti city clans make an alliance that wasn't in response to the city clans. Almost always, we hafta react to what the city is doing. NDA or SS is beatin the snot out of us, so we hafta help each other out. Then NDA joins up other city clans to continue beating the snot out of us. We look around and sigh. I'm exagerating, using nda as an example, but that's how it often was for us. We really don't call allies unless the city makes us. While previously Pimp/FF would have been a sizeable force, that's hardly the case now. Typicaly we send 3 or 4 ppl to help ff, silent sends about the same, it's mainly just FF doing the fighting. We go try to take ops on our own, but most often that just wakes up one of our many enemies to overrun us. If you feel FF is that much of a threat that you need to make larger organizations to beat them, that's fine. Just don't use the same force to fight everyone else. We only help FF for two reasons.
1) We don't have enough people to take an op ourselves, so rather then be bored to death we let members go help ff.
2) We have enough people, but our enemies have twice as many at least.
Edit: When I logged in earlier today the online counts were:
NCF - 20
FF - 10
Pimp - 8
I understand you there, however you said that we made a larger force, you also said that NDA and Dom fought together, which we did, so how does NDA and Dominion merging make us a larger force ? Its the same people that fought together before NCF Anyhow, not like weve all spawned 2 extra arms and a head so that we can play 2 chars at once ...
Granted were now bigger then PIMP, However when FF are at their peak, they have 20 + members on, lets leave it till a saturday night or something when the server is at peak pop.. youll notice that the FF/NCF Numbers will be pretty much even where as NDA/FF would be about half NDA compared to FF, same with dom, thats the reason why we fought together anyhow ...
Lifewaster
11-02-04, 02:42
I havent voted, cos there isnt any option for what I want.
ie: A realistic chance to fight in OP wars.
ATM only a large clan has this , due to the communication and OP control system.
Cyphor (Ash)
11-02-04, 02:44
Though I'm not in a clan, I love to see rival clans fight each other. The atmosphere it adds is great, plus it's so cool to see the way they change, make peace treaties, merge and so on.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
I understand you there, however you said that we made a larger force, you also said that NDA and Dom fought together, which we did, so how does NDA and Dominion merging make us a larger force ? Its the same people that fought together before NCF Anyhow, not like weve all spawned 2 extra arms and a head so that we can play 2 chars at once ...
Granted were now bigger then PIMP, However when FF are at their peak, they have 20 + members on, lets leave it till a saturday night or something when the server is at peak pop.. youll notice that the FF/NCF Numbers will be pretty much even where as NDA/FF would be about half NDA compared to FF, same with dom, thats the reason why we fought together anyhow ...
Before there was the potential to fight a single clan, now we hafta face a larger clan. Yes we've had dark/ss/nda/dom/others all come at us at once before, in that regard its just as bad as it was before. Except now we've lost two clans we could have fought on their own sometimes. It wasn't every single fight that we faced 3+ clans. Sometimes we got in a good 1on1 fight, or even if it wasn't 1on1 there were even numbers on both sides.
If anything you could say, that the situation hasn't improved any. It's just that two of our enemies joining together, though it doesn't change how many ppl we usualy face, it is more of a moral blow : )
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 03:23
Online as of now:
NCF: 11
PIMP: 6
FF: 3
SS: 0
DarK: 9
SXR: 5
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
Online as of now:
NCF: 11
PIMP: 6
FF: 3
SS: 0
DarK: 9
SXR: 5
oh yes 1:30 AM is prime OP taking time :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Lifewaster
I havent voted, cos there isnt any option for what I want.
ie: A realistic chance to fight in OP wars.
ATM only a large clan has this , due to the communication and OP control system.
Uhhh, doesn't "I believe it's the only way to compete" kind of sum that up? ;)
Lifewaster
11-02-04, 03:37
Originally posted by Scikar
Uhhh, doesn't "I believe it's the only way to compete" kind of sum that up? ;)
Naw, not really, "Only way to Participate" Is more what I mean.
But Ill vote that anyway.
I don't care about clan sizes as long as I can GR to decent sections of the map. For the week that TG owned most of the map, I wasn't happy. Adding insult to injury, MJS didn't push through the GR-at-Racetrack that he said he would in the BDOY thread, so that meant driving from the North exit of TH to most locations (or waddling several zones from Escador using a nerfed Obliterator to hide from DoY bots).
At least now with a more cohesive Pro-City clan/alliance active, I can look forward to being able to GR places like back in the good old days of SS owning the north-northeastern section of the map.
Poor SS. I will miss thee.
Peter Andre
11-02-04, 03:46
i would post why i hate big clans bit i cant be assed and what i think has already been said =P
no vote for me sorry i say sod clans and make every faction red to every one else and we all have big happy fights and then go to peper park and have a big ffa when the TS guards DONT SHOOT YOU now that would be nice :D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: :D
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 03:48
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
oh yes 1:30 AM is prime OP taking time :rolleyes:
Any time can be a time to take ops. I am doing this to show you how your ncf alliance is purposeless in evening the numbers, but rather just increasing them furthur.
Another ramble by Spook ...
Large clans can unfortunately dominate the map and intimidate other smaller clans from ever taking part in Ops fights. Or they simply clobber a smaller clan when they do get ballsy enough to venture into a war zone and maybe shatter their morale so that they are leary of trying again. If you play this game hardcore, dominating the map could certainly be your goal. I dont think that's healthy for the game, but i do admit that it is valid gameplay. But note, that pretty much compels your enemies to seriously band together and even grow larger to compete effectively
On the other hand, if large clans regulate themselves, and are willing to limit their Op holdings to a modest number, then clan size has much less impact and might even be okay in the long run because it leaves other Ops for lesser clans to fight for.
---
As for NCF ...
I think the heart of the original problem was NDA's US/UK split, in that although we had a seemingly large number of active players, the timezone differences handicapped us badly more-often-than-not when FF decided to fight us. Sometimes we could match them ourselves with the people online, but often we "seemed" badly outnumbered.
I saw the situation evolve as a member of NDA, and it came about as a growing "belief" that we needed greater numbers to compete against the numbers FF typically brought into a fight. It began with trying to fight our own fights whenever we reasonably could and calling in Dark to some fights when we felt seriously outnumbered, then it evolved into a strong alliance with Dominion and less calls to Dark, then a merging with Dominion for better communications and a return to "single clan" fighting as much as possible (calling on Dark infrequently). In all honesty, our clan does not set out to pull together an overwhelming force. In all the fights i have been in with NDA/NCF (quite a lot) the goal has been to try to roughly match our opponents. Okay, there were one or two where we got pissed at all the extra clans our enemies seemingly called in, so we said screw it and pulled in whoever we could - but that is not our normal reaction.
Note the "seemed" and "belief" above. I think part of the problem is how hard it can be to estimate the size of enemy forces, even when you send out recon units. I suspect that both our enemies, and ourselves, have misunderstood the numbers at times and have brought in more help when it wasnt really needed. And of course that just escalated things, not only in that fight but subsequent fights because of the resulting mindset. Like if one of us happens to see a Pimp and a Spirit with FF there could be a reaction of "my god they got two clans helping them!" even though it might only be two are three extra people total. Similarly, we will sometimes have a single Dark who joins our force (unasked by our leaders) that is otherwise just NDA (NCF) and that could be misinterpreted as having called in Dark, so our enemy calls in even more help. And thus things snowball.
---
Semi-random thought ... just as there are NAPs, why not have smaller clans make agreements with larger clans to limit the forces in a fight? For instance, a firm agreement to never have more than 15 including any/all allies. Or even just 10 total. Clans who just want to have good fights, and are willing to lose as well as win Ops, will probably agree to this sort of thing. Those who won't agree ... well now you know where you stand with them - they want to win at any cost. Heck, even the big clans could do this, but set a higher limit, to avoid snowballing.
Won't happen though, too many narrow-minded people out there who see their own clan as the only honest and trustworthy players, with everyone else being dishonest scum who will never fight fair. But strangely enough, when you move to a new clan, THEY are suddenly the only ones who are honest / trustworthy. ;)
Spook
kramer, I love how you don't take into consideration Crackheads, CD, Silent. You do realise that they fight alongside FF/Spirit/PIMP often times. And if you don't realise, well, great news! I have screenshots! :)
Originally posted by ServeX
kramer, I love how you don't take into consideration Crackheads, CD, Silent. You do realise that they fight alongside FF/Spirit/PIMP often times. And if you don't realise, well, great news! I have screenshots! :)
OK FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE LAST TIME I SAID IT AND THE TIME BEFORE THAT AND BEFORE THAT. CRACKHEADS DO NOT FIGHT WITH FF/SPIRIT/PIMP OR ANYONE AT ALL FOR THAT MATTER. ONLY SILENT DOES.
And serve I'd like to see those screen shots. And if you're talking about the other day at mal we were't fighting with ff. A few members wanted to go help SILENT in an op fight not ff.
KramerTheWeird
11-02-04, 04:25
Yes crackheads, CD and mirror shades and carebears are on their own. And as far as I've seen all day not one silent.
Sooooo lets see. Sat night at the event. I think the first day of NCFs existance. FF had 18 online during the event, NCF had 18 online, Silent had 5. Now NCF is formed mainly to compete with FF? Why then did u choose to attack silent with all their 5 ppl online?
2 days ago - Silent fights NCF all night with max half ur numbers - if its at an op where NCF cant drop 100 turrets we win. U wait till 5 am my time - Im the only Silent online - u have 15 (ff has 4)and u start to hack? This is competing with FF?
Perhaps u need to took a lil deeper for the real reasons and stop kidding urselves - no one is fooled.
Originally posted by Cyphor
…the reason this was needed imo is because we prefered to fight without allies where-ever possible…constantly outnumber us to the point where we never had enough on to hold our ops…we now have comparable numbers as our main enemy, fights should be even now if we fight clan on clan v them, this seems fair to meI find it amusing that if someone complains that they cannot hold OPs people jump down their throat with “if you can’t hold them you don’t deserve them” and when we solve the problem then they whine “omg…mega clan.” Sure it would be fun to have a smaller clan of highly skilled, well trained, perfectly coordinated fighters capable of killing 3 times their numbers. However, this is just a game and not an elite military special forces unit. People come and go from the game and to fight fairly you need to have roughly even odds.
Originally posted by CR@SH
What people seem to not understand about FF is at max we might have 50-60 guys in the clan and rest are alts.I just checked the roster, and we have 28 alts in N.C.F. This does not include the 4-5 actives and another 4-5 I plan to move to active or boot. I think we all know that this is the situation with all the large clans. It doesn’t matter how many people are in the clan, it matters how many are online and available to fight at a given time.
Originally posted by evs
I agree that anti city held most of the map…The majority was held by one faction but they didnt get overly greedy and try and take all the ops…I can understand the need to create an alliance to take some of the ops, but trying to dominate the map is just ruining the play.Do you play on Pluto? Prior to the merger last weekend, TG held 27 OPs and TT held zero OPs. Is that your definition of balance? Look at the map now. Is it overrun by TT OPs? How can you make statements that have absolutely no basis in fact?
N.C.F. is not ruining anything. Our goal is to bring balance to Pluto. We have defined 5-6 primary OPs and that is all. We absolutely have no intention of dominating the map the way FF does.
Originally posted by Cyphor
err we have 3 ops atm, and 5 primary ops in total how does that dominate the map? How does that ruin play?…We dont dominate the map our enemies do
Originally posted by Ascention
We dont endevour to:rolleyes: we have decided on 5 core Ops.. since we merged ive played sum of the funnest and longest Op wars in my time in neocron;)
_____________________________
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
ok…ill set it straight about NCF…its quite simple my dears...unless your just irish or something, you would realise that when NDA and Dominion merged together, they would essentially be the same force [as FF]..we have merged under the 1 clan name so that we have better communication via clan chat and comms…Nothing has changed, theres no extra people fighting for the city SIZE] It’s as simple as that.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer I just want to say that I f*ing hate super clans or mega alliances or mega merges, or any sort of BS like that. They kill servers. It's so silly to have 2-3 "super" clans dominating each server.There are 37 OPs in the game. DARK own 5 and N.C.F. is going to hold 5-6. Two of these so-called mega clans each strive to own approximately 15% of the map. The remaining 70% of the OPs are free for other clans. If you don't believe me, count them yourself and do the math.
If you think about it calmly MD, you will realize that it is not us ruining the server. We are only trying to bring balance to Pluto. :angel:
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
so NCF are gonna kill pluto …Just because weve made a clan sizeable to FF and have won some fights and lost some, doesent fucking mean were killing pluto. We arent going out there to take all the OPs, we wont be taking all the OPs, thats NOT OUR INTENTION were just the only sizeable clan that on our own, can now fight FF... on our own...It can’t be said any clearer than this.
Originally posted by KramerTheWeird
DarK and SS rarely ever call on allies and I respect them for that…It isn't a necessity of them, to rely on allies all the time… merging for the sake of dependancy on each other for ally support is a bit overkill. DARK is a large clan comparable in size to FF so naturally they don’t usually need allies. N.C.F. is also now comparable in size to FF which is why we fought them the last 4 days without allies. What is the problem?
SS lost all their OPs to FF recently. They got some back last weekend because we began attacking FF on multiple fronts. The only reason they hold the 3 OPs they do now is because FF allows them to. If FF attacked SS every day and at all times of the day, the way that they attack us, SS would not be able to stop them. I am not disrespecting SS or implying that they cannot fight well, but unfortunately they have lost too many player to Silent and are weaker at the moment.
Originally posted by Carinth
…now we face each of these clans working together against us…While previously Pimp/FF would have been a sizeable force, that's hardly the case now If you feel FF is that much of a threat that you need to make larger organizations to beat them, that's fine. Just don't use the same force to fight everyone else.
Edit: When I logged in earlier today the online counts were:
NCF - 20
FF - 10
Pimp - 8 Carinth, you are judging balance based on how many members are online? Do you look at the map very often? If you do, then you obviously know that despite our best efforts, we simply could not hold OPs against FF for very long. You would also see that after the merger we are simply holding the same 5 or 6 OPs we were holding prior to the merger.
I realize that you are not on all that much these days, but PIMP is part of the reason we merged. The last time NDA and PIMP fought was when we took Regants. PIMP responded from the UG and we won. NDA then moved South and attacked you at Gravis. You were likely still getting poked up, you dropped turrets, we lost. We accepted the loss and regrouped at Regants. Just like PIMP, NDA was getting poked and used turrets to hold you off and eventually won. Three good fights, we won some and lost some. THEN you called in FF. Regardless of whether or not you believe me, that is exactly how it happened. You overpowered us and won despite the fact we had even numbers and had each won and lost and both used turrets. I was very angry and DMed you from rhoid. You told me you didn’t get involved in those decisions and were just there for the fight. Fair enough.
Let me save you the trouble of responding to that. I am 100% sure that we have done the same to you. I know that you took Jericho a while ago and we took it back with loads of allies. I was not online and did not organize that. Like you, I just popped on mid-fight after it was already under way. In fact, I bet most clans are guilty of this and the thing is, it is not always intentional. For example, I was pretty mad at Spirit a few weeks back. We took Nemesis and they came from the UG but we had a few too many for them. Spirit (the leader not the clan) DMed me and told me that many were afk so their force was smaller that CityCom showed. He asked me not to leave, that while they only had 5-6 to our 10 they were coming anyway. So we waited. They showed up with the whole of FF and slaughtered us. I was pretty mad at the time. He later explained that he only asked for 2-3 fighters to even things up and was as shocked as I was when the whole clan turned up. I believe him. After we merged, we took McPherson but I was unaware at the time that it was a Spirit OP and not an FF OP. I contacted them later and told them to take it back, which they did. Yesterday, when we were busy at another fight Spirit attacked Jericho. After they realized that we were not going to fight because we were busy with FF they left without hacking the OP. They wanted to have a fair fight. Can you believe these people? My hat goes off to Spirit.
Even though mistakes sometimes occur, and they will, you have to average out the overall behavior of a clan in order to form an opinion of them. I have a great deal of respect for Spirit. They have never tried to dominate the map. Your friends FF, however, are a different story. You keep implying that poor little FF is being zerged by city clans working together, but do you look at the map at the end of each day? The city clans unite simply to hold off FF from taking the few OPs we try to hold. When was the last time PIMP went to help FF at Cycrow because they were under attack from multiple city clans? We rarely attack the core FF OPs unless it is just to get a fight. On the other hand, I have seen PIMP helping FF at nearly every fight at Jericho over the last few days. We are trying to hold ONE SINGLE fortress close to the city gates which FF relentlessly attacks and you go and help them.
I am sure there will be times when PIMP and NCF have equal numbers on and we can have some fun fights. I don’t even mind when PIMP helps Silent (as they have done a lot lately) because Silent is a small clan. But PIMP has got to stop helping FF. DARK, FF, and NCF are the 3 big boys on Pluto now; these 3 clans need to fight each other alone.
Yesterday, Silent called FF and PIMP and all 3 clans came to overwhelm us. Was it because we had used allies against Silent? No, it was because we used turrets and that pissed Silent off. (The turret issue is an entirely different topic so let’s not even go there in this thread.) The point is that it was the first time we had to call for help since the merger and I am trying to fight without allies. But it was not NCF, it was Silent that initiated the horrible zerg that occurred yesterday. Perhaps if you refuse to join them, the same way that the honorable Spirit refuses, then our 2 clans can have some fair fights.
Originally posted by ZigZag
Sooooo lets see. Sat night at the event. I think the first day of NCFs existance...Why then did u choose to attack silent with all their 5 ppl online?Do you understand the concept of primary OPs? Silent has decided to take Emmerson, despite the fact they hold Simmons and Krupp--evidently 2 factories is not enough for your clan. Emmerson is our primary and only factory and we will take it regardless of who you have online.
Ray
Originally posted by Psycho Killa
I just want them to be city admin
Fucking soullight :mad:
now theres a question i'd like answered... why the fuck Tangent tech?
yu may as well be CA... yur ANTI TG and every other anti city clan...
but once again why arent yu CA
but once again why arent yu CA
I _think_ it's because TT is hostile to FA, but I don't have my crib sheet with me.
NCF is NDA get over it DoM is gone for good...
and
fighting with numbers = non skilled runners
Quantity isn't quality:angel:
darkservent
11-02-04, 13:18
Originally posted by RayBob
Do you understand the concept of primary OPs? Silent has decided to take Emmerson, despite the fact they hold Simmons and Krupp--evidently 2 factories is not enough for your clan. Emmerson is our primary and only factory and we will take it regardless of who you have online.
Ray
Honostly guys this concept of primary OPs lets the whole game down all together. Ever since i came to this game ppl just have this concept that we have to take our primary OP back thats it. This is wot makes clans have the title of a "MEGA CLAN"- yes this attitude. Fair enough some of the mega clans dont seem to have that attitude cause they cant be bothered with OPs in general.
The truth is why not give the smaller clans in UR faction some OPs. YES AND IM TALKIN TO ALL MEGA CLANS regardless of of wot faction and clan im in. Though when u look at TG on pluto there is only 2 clans ive really seen and thats FF and Spirit - no other clans (correct me if im wrong - been away for so long). But with TT, ive seen so many small TT clans, why is it that non of the MEGA CITY CLANS let small clans have some OPs of theres?
Back when i was in TT and NEXT i was faced with the same situation from SS and MAXT with there bigheads sayin this is out OP and we will take it back. I think this sux really badly. It was ppl like the OLD NDA that were somewot considerate and let us keep a OP of there that LEGION had taken . Still they to seemed to have that concept of primary OPs then.
If a clan takes a primary OP of a mega clan from a enemy then its tough to the mega clan. The game will always be unbalanced if we keep thinkin like this.
Really makes me sad that every1 has this thinkin. Enough said!!!
Originally posted by ServeX
kramer, I love how you don't take into consideration Crackheads, CD, Silent. You do realise that they fight alongside FF/Spirit/PIMP often times. And if you don't realise, well, great news! I have screenshots! :)
We fight against spirit, not with.
Alts:
Many clans have them, some of the bigger clans have lots, now people seem to use this to suggest it lessons the numbers at an OP war.
The reality is if you die at an OP war you can have your alternate their within a couple of minutes, yes the numbers of your team have not changed but all the energy the enemy expelled killing you has been nullified.
If you say 'one of my alts is a trade skiller so that doesnt count' you are wrong. Other clans have trade skillers with no alts meaning they may make up the numbers but they cant join in any war.
Equal fights:
Its no fun to be on the loosing side but that doesnt mean your enemy should lesson its numbers or change its tactics to give you more of a chance to win.
You fight with what you have and accept that the enemy might bring more to the fight than you can handle, when they do you learn that life aint fair and to make more allies.
Ninja hacking :
In the past GMs have stated, if you cant hold it 24 hours a day you dont diserve it when someone ninja hacks it. This is one of the reasons why big clans are formed, more members equal more time coverage. Not only can you hack smaller clans OPs while they're all asleep but you can also defend your OPs from similar attacks.
------------------------------------------------------
The reality of a small clan:
When you have a force that can take an OP, gather them together and go forth and take one. Hold if for as long as possible, then go to bed sure in the knowledge the larger clan you just bitch slapped will hack it back while your numbers are low. Learn to live with it and remember although they have the OP they couldnt take it from you till you were weak.
If you actually want to hold OPs then accept you will need to merge or recruit in large numbers to fight on an equal footing with the big clans.
•Super|\|ova•
11-02-04, 14:19
Originally posted by Rade
We fight against spirit, not with.
Yup. And at least there's the both of us who can fight without those lame ass "tactics". "Oh yay, they have only 1 member online lets go for their OPs fast before they get more ppl!!!!". Nope, that doesn't happen where we fight. It's the exact opposite; we wont attack until the enemy has enough ppl to defend it. I know, I know, it may sound stupid but that's the reason you go to fight over an OP right? To get a fight! Lets take an example. Imagine if you get all the OP in the map by zerging and using unfair tactics like turret dropping etc. Then, no one will fight you since they know if they have to fight your clan all they get is lame tactics used againt them so they decide to do something else. So there you are standing on a pile of outposts and without opportunity of OPfight... cool?
Lame tactics are the things what make the server eventually, as some might say, carebear. Think about it.
Again - Gravis 2 days ago - NCF lost to FF in a fight with similar numbers each side - FF came from the UG so u could not possibly imagine they had allies - what did NCF do? - call dark - Dark - 9x members, NCF 9x members, FF 9x members. Looks like similar odds that silent fight ie. NCF need 2x their enemies to win - why? If i say it no doubt ill get the thread closed.
NDA used to fight FF with similar numbers an still lost - I ask u again -- its not about similar numbers -- its not about even fights --- its not about balance coz dark fights WITH the city even tho they supposed to be anti-city ---- what is it?
Oh an BTW u keep annoying ppl by saying they help ff/silent/pimp LOL funni to see.
edit- yea core ops is a BS concept - me an my 2 friends will just declare the entire map our core ops so therefore we can ninja em day an night? - declaring an op a core op does not give u the right to use whatever lame tactics u want. @I also notice u ignored the reality where NCF attacks silent who have 5 ppl with 18 instead of ur "main" enemy who have also 18.
On sat night we went for tescom v silent who had comparable numbers to find silent/ff/pimp there, this was as nda and dominion...we had got used to the fact these 3 clans are "as thick as thieves" you fight one you fight all most of the time. Now part of the problem with these fights is the fact we were outnumbered but we also found it alot harder to communicate betwee two clans, so we merged and went back to take a silent op, call it revenge for making sure they outnumbered us at tescom...
As for other excuses such as "we only had 6 on", i take an online count when the organising of a fight begins, if half your force decides to log off then face the concequenes, fair enough people shouldnt sacrifice real life stuff for a computer game, i know i dont, but dont bitch at us afterwards. You had 11+ last night but within 30mins of getting all your allies to zerg us over 5 logged off. It can take alot of work to plan an op war, people dont have time to constantly check numbers, if we are around equal numbers at the start then its fair.
Edit: we did loose at gravis to ff...so what? and we only had tupac from dark not 9+...we loose fights, you loose fights...is there a point behind the debate?
Now is it just me or has this thread deteriated from the main point? It seems to me like its turned into a clan bashing thread which is against the forum rules...
darkservent
11-02-04, 17:36
Originally posted by Cyphor
is there a point behind the debate?
Nope not really.
Originally posted by ZigZag
Again - Gravis 2 days ago - NCF lost to FF in a fight with similar numbers each side - FF came from the UG so u could not possibly imagine they had allies - what did NCF do? - call dark - Dark - 9x members, NCF 9x members, FF 9x members. Looks like similar odds that silent fight ie. NCF need 2x their enemies to win - why? If i say it no doubt ill get the thread closed.
NDA used to fight FF with similar numbers an still lost - I ask u again -- its not about similar numbers -- its not about even fights --- its not about balance coz dark fights WITH the city even tho they supposed to be anti-city ---- what is it?
Oh an BTW u keep annoying ppl by saying they help ff/silent/pimp LOL funni to see.
edit- yea core ops is a BS concept - me an my 2 friends will just declare the entire map our core ops so therefore we can ninja em day an night? - declaring an op a core op does not give u the right to use whatever lame tactics u want. @I also notice u ignored the reality where NCF attacks silent who have 5 ppl with 18 instead of ur "main" enemy who have also 18.
Oh come on, stop acting so damn innocent. Everything you accuse them of doing everyone else has done including you guys. You're just in denial just like every other clan.
Originally posted by RayBob
SS lost all their OPs to FF recently. They got some back last weekend because we began attacking FF on multiple fronts. The only reason they hold the 3 OPs they do now is because FF allows them to. If FF attacked SS every day and at all times of the day, the way that they attack us, SS would not be able to stop them. I am not disrespecting SS or implying that they cannot fight well, but unfortunately they have lost too many player to Silent and are weaker at the moment.
lol o_O
we got alot of the old swg peons back.. they didnt play nc for a long time so we gotta reorganise our teamwork...still we can kill FF... its just that they're so freakin many monks plus turrets and noob buffs...
and we all know what they do when they're about to loose....
anyways just wait a bit ;)
.cy
SigmaDraconis
11-02-04, 17:52
:lol:
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
sex
yea that about sums it up..
Ok seriously, Silent can help and fight whoever they want, but can the rest of you please realize that the entirety of BD does not amount to Silent. Just because you see Silent doing anything period, doesn't mean the rest of BD does it. I don't group Spirit with FF nor do I group SS with NCF so why you all do it with BD boggles the mind. CD, creackheads, and MS do not ally with Pimp or FF. Get. That. In. Your. Minds. And. Keep. It. There.
AFAIK the alliance between FF and Silent started out as a NAP.
Unfortunately, as BD is classed as an anti-city faction, Silent (and the rest of the faction) got dragged into the war between TG and TT which is IMO destroying the server. We would like to be independant, but now with the formation of NCF, we have no choice but to call for allies in most fights, as alone we just can't compete with the super-clans.
Whichever way you look at it, Pluto's politics are fucked. And it's not going to get any better until both TT and TG shed some of their members.
Let's have a look at each faction's status on Pluto.
Pro-City
CA - Dead. Completely and utterly dead.
TT - Has way, way too many people.
BT - Seems to have a fair few people, but currently inactive when it comes to OP fights. I hear SXR and quant are practising for battles. I really hope that's true. And I hope more than anything else that they try to be independant rather than allying with NCF.
NEXT - Dunno what's happened here.
DRE - Dead.
PP - Not sure what's going on with SoA. Would be nice if they started taking ops.
CM - IMO one of the only balanced factions. CIX has a perfect number of members.
Anti-City
TG - Like TT, completely oversized.
FA - Has enough members, they just don't seem to co-operate enough. I'm not suggesting for one second that all FA clans merge however.
TS - Needs more active members.
BD - Balanced. Really doesn't need anymore members with the current server population.
CS - Pretty much balanced, though I'm finding it increasingly hard to understand why DarK are still in the faction.
I doubt anyone really cares what I think, but here are a few possible steps to balancing the server.
1. NCF splits back up into NDA and Dominion.
2. FF offloads a few members into TS.
3. Silent breaks alliances with TG and TS.
4. FA, PP and Biotech get their shit together and start taking OPs again.
5. As TT still has NDA and SS, some could work on repopulating NEXT and DRE (hard to believe that NEXT was the biggest faction on Pluto a while back), and some TG could go too.
IF all of the above happened, there would be no need for huge alliances or super-clans, and you might actually have a balanced server.
Originally posted by Lethys
hard to believe that NEXT was the biggest faction on Pluto a while back
Back in the days of D.M.A:(
HEY GUYS I JUST SAW 30 SILENT, MIRRORSHADE AND CRACKHEADS HELP FF AND PIMP LOLZ AND THEY WERE USING TURRETS AND PEOPLE HOW LAME THEY MUST BE NOOBS, ALSO SATURN IS THE SHIT AND PLUTO SUCKS LOL PLUTO? MORE LIKE SHITO HAHAHAHA
The next thread i see with retards that have difficulty with spelling, grammar or just having plain difficulties in expressing themselves in the english language (WIGGA WHAT) with the fucking shortcuts
(because = CuZ, you = U, for = 4) stating that 3 "known" BD clans with different agendas and goals, get grouped together in one big soup to make the list of allies your chosen main evil enemy clan possesses, look more threatening and ooh so many allies oh no i think we a reason to justify our merging instead of just stating that "we want to win, so we teamed up" reason.
Silent may have some nap with FF, and maybe 1 other BD clan, Farmers of the Eastern Caribbean may also have a nap with a few clans, but
THE REST OF THE BLACK DRAGONS HAVE AND/OR DONT WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH FF OR NCF SO LEAVE THEM OUT OF THIS SHIT.
*sigh*
Flaming is bad.... man if you guys really want to sort the politics and fight anti city/pro city style then have a meeting ingame.
•Super|\|ova•
11-02-04, 19:30
Originally posted by Duder
HEY GUYS I JUST SAW 30 SILENT, MIRRORSHADE AND CRACKHEADS HELP FF AND PIMP LOLZ AND THEY WERE USING TURRETS AND PEOPLE HOW LAME THEY MUST BE NOOBS, ALSO SATURN IS THE SHIT AND PLUTO SUCKS LOL PLUTO? MORE LIKE SHITO HAHAHAHA
The next thread i see with retards that have difficulty with spelling, grammar or just having plain difficulties in expressing themselves in the english language (WIGGA WHAT) with the fucking shortcuts
(because = CuZ, you = U, for = 4) stating that 3 "known" BD clans with different agendas and goals, get grouped together in one big soup to make the list of allies your chosen main evil enemy clan possesses, look more threatening and ooh so many allies oh no i think we a reason to justify our merging instead of just stating that "we want to win, so we teamed up" reason.
Silent may have some nap with FF, and maybe 1 other BD clan, Farmers of the Eastern Caribbean may also have a nap with a few clans, but
THE REST OF THE BLACK DRAGONS HAVE AND/OR DONT WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH FF OR NCF SO LEAVE THEM OUT OF THIS SHIT.
Sheesh... drugs don't suit you o_O anyone disagree with me?
Originally posted by Duder
HEY GUYS I JUST SAW 30 SILENT, MIRRORSHADE AND CRACKHEADS HELP FF AND PIMP LOLZ AND THEY WERE USING TURRETS AND PEOPLE HOW LAME THEY MUST BE NOOBS, ALSO SATURN IS THE SHIT AND PLUTO SUCKS LOL PLUTO? MORE LIKE SHITO HAHAHAHA
The next thread i see with retards that have difficulty with spelling, grammar or just having plain difficulties in expressing themselves in the english language (WIGGA WHAT) with the fucking shortcuts
(because = CuZ, you = U, for = 4) stating that 3 "known" BD clans with different agendas and goals, get grouped together in one big soup to make the list of allies your chosen main evil enemy clan possesses, look more threatening and ooh so many allies oh no i think we a reason to justify our merging instead of just stating that "we want to win, so we teamed up" reason.
Silent may have some nap with FF, and maybe 1 other BD clan, Farmers of the Eastern Caribbean may also have a nap with a few clans, but
THE REST OF THE BLACK DRAGONS HAVE AND/OR DONT WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH FF OR NCF SO LEAVE THEM OUT OF THIS SHIT.
The red and Black font contrast screws my eyes up
:cool:
much better
darkservent
11-02-04, 19:36
Originally posted by Duder
HEY GUYS I JUST SAW 30 SILENT, MIRRORSHADE AND CRACKHEADS HELP FF AND PIMP LOLZ AND THEY WERE USING TURRETS AND PEOPLE HOW LAME THEY MUST BE NOOBS, ALSO SATURN IS THE SHIT AND PLUTO SUCKS LOL PLUTO? MORE LIKE SHITO HAHAHAHA
The next thread i see with retards that have difficulty with spelling, grammar or just having plain difficulties in expressing themselves in the english language (WIGGA WHAT) with the fucking shortcuts
(because = CuZ, you = U, for = 4) stating that 3 "known" BD clans with different agendas and goals, get grouped together in one big soup to make the list of allies your chosen main evil enemy clan possesses, look more threatening and ooh so many allies oh no i think we a reason to justify our merging instead of just stating that "we want to win, so we teamed up" reason.
Silent may have some nap with FF, and maybe 1 other BD clan, Farmers of the Eastern Caribbean may also have a nap with a few clans, but
THE REST OF THE BLACK DRAGONS HAVE AND/OR DONT WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH FF OR NCF SO LEAVE THEM OUT OF THIS SHIT.
U R TEH UBER 1!!!
Originally posted by darkservent
U R TEH UBER 1!!!
I WIN? YAY YAAAY YAAAAAAAY
Just leave the other BD clans out of this.
Originally posted by Duder
I WIN? YAY YAAAY YAAAAAAAY
Just leave the other BD clans out of this.
im in teh carebear day care BD clan, we dont do nothin
darkservent
11-02-04, 19:41
Originally posted by Shujin
im in teh carebear day care BD clan, we dont do nothin
Join TEH LAW if u wanna do sumtin...OOOPS there in saturn. Oh well...
I think really kk needs to either sort out faction alliances so that city can fight anti city without every facing an allied/neutral faction. Or actualy complete the clan wars system, so that clan's override faction alignments. If Tangents were red to us and TG allied, so many problems would be solved. We shouldn't be forced to change faction just to be able to fight on the side KK tells us we're supposed too. It's retarded to have a complex faction alignment system and then throw a two sided war into it. Either completely dumb the system down so there are only two sides, or stop punishing factions for fighting on their side.
Even tho they often outnumber us and use turrets, we love fighting Dark. They're red, so we don't ever hafta worry about sympathies. Nor do we hafta worry about setting turrets to anything but kill hostiles. For a short time, while Tangent was in a lull, we actualy had all our enemies be hostile faction. It was soooo nice. We fought clans in Ca, Crahn, and BD. The only exception was a Merc clan, but most of the time we fought red's. Now we're back to fighting neutrals : /
Even tho they often outnumber us and use turrets, we love fighting Dark
can say the same thing about pimp we're bad as each other so lets not get into it.
Originally posted by Ivory
can say the same thing about pimp we're bad as each other so lets not get into it.
Ooops, didn't mean that negatively. I just meant tho we're often disadvantaged, we still have fun : )
Ooops, didn't mean that negatively. I just meant tho we're often disadvantaged, we still have fun : )
ditto :) its fun fighting pimp also had some good laughs.
BT - Seems to have a fair few people, but currently inactive when it comes to OP fights. I hear SXR and quant are practising for battles. I really hope that's true. And I hope more than anything else that they try to be independant rather than allying with NCF.
We are trying to do our own thing, we dont have any ill will towards NCF and regularly have PP scraps but Dark & FF would be our main enemies.
Originally posted by Ascention
Back in the days of D.M.A:(
I ran D.M.A for a while after Yibble left, it was not an OP war clan by that time, we had numbers but loads of inactives. MAXT and others had the same problems.
Shadow Dancer
11-02-04, 21:08
Originally posted by Ivory
can say the same thing about pimp we're bad as each other so lets not get into it.
Um, we don't outnumber dark nor do we have the funds to drop 50 turrets during battle. How can we outnumber dark? The majority of the time you guys outnumber us, the majority of the time we struggle to find a friggin ppu just to op battle. We're lucky if we can get 2, I remember on one occasion having 3. But having 3-4 ppus is the norm for you. Dark is a huge clan. We've dropped turrets on occasion, but it's noooooooooooooooooowhere near the huge number of turrets you guys drop, nor do we have 2 stealthers with the SPECIFIC task of going around stealth dropping turrets.
Please stop lying and just be honest Ivory. I keep SPECIFIC track of dark vs pimp battles. I don't keep SPECIFIC track of any other clans, because to be honest, none of them are that bad. But Dark is different.
To be honest, the last let's say 10 op fights between dark and pimp, i've rarely seen you or carinth. So I think both of you really need to uhhh reevaluate what you're saying, to put it nicely.
I'm not sure why Carinth even says we love fighting dark. I don't. Due to sheer numbers of monks and turrets, I get very little fun in having 2 stealth pes dropping multiple gats on me and the whole clan through-out the whole entire fight.
Sheer numbers of monks i can deal with, but stealth/insta turret dropping is a whole nother ballgame.
And once again, just stop the damn lies ivory. Just stop it. Your clan have some of the worst liars in ANY server. One time I went with just 2 ppus to blow up turrets and just fight any dark that come from the UG just to have fun. Their were like 8 dark online. Then i'm told how most of htem are afk, and i'm lame for trying to ninja hack.
o_O
Stuff like that is the norm.
That's why I prefer pking and trouncing dark at mb, battledome, and TH. Because you can't drop turrets there.
And what do you mean Ditto Ivory. You guys are often disadvantaged? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Boy, i can't wait till SS gets more active again. I wanna go back to fighting SS.
I wish to god the servers were more diverse, with alot more enemies to choose from.
Instead you pick superclan 1, 2, or 3 to fight.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
SD said it all. Why dont people grow balls and not join huge clans????
Originally posted by Hayato
SD said it all. Why dont people grow balls and not join huge clans????
Becuase some people like large clans? Just becuase you dont' like large clans doesn't mean no one should be in a large clan.
The whole of pluto should do something like leave a few OPs for clans smaller than like 30-40 whatever members to fight over. So more than the big clans have chances at OP fights.
Originally posted by Nexxy
The whole of pluto should do something like leave a few OPs for clans smaller than like 30-40 whatever members to fight over. So more than the big clans have chances at OP fights.
talk to ff dude.. we of NCF endevour to hold 5 Ops thats it:(
Originally posted by Nexxy
The whole of pluto should do something like leave a few OPs for clans smaller than like 30-40 whatever members to fight over. So more than the big clans have chances at OP fights.
Big clans aren't a problem, it's the big clans that use turrets at every fight. I wish KK would just fix turrets already. It's not hard to tell that turrets are a problem when you got clans using 50+ at op fights.
Yeah they should sort the turret BS.. also people are on bout massive Op wars with lag/sync whats gonna happen when DoY is out... it is obvious KK want 1 v 1 DoY vs Neocron
Why don't KK add capture points to the smaller landmarks, that are only takable by clans with a low "clan rank".
A clan rank comes about by equating their number of members, their clan cash, the number of real OPs they've taken and so on.
These mini-landmarks only give the odd bonus, such as access to an underground store or something (with Yo's vendors and such so they don't have to return home). And can only have a maximum of five turrets in close proximity to the landmark.
Steve
Originally posted by Rade
We fight against spirit, not with.
then maybe you'd like to see some very recent screenshots from the fight at mcpherson this sunday.
....ZigZag sure does look good in that screenshot.
funny SD, whenever i have fought pimp, I value the fight. like carinth has said he has fun fighting us. As i have said numerous times before...... a clan who is severely outnumbered doesnt matter who they are and wins the outcome earns my respect.
Instead of showing little tedious remarks about me lying just remember this u little tit .... this ain't about clan bitching SD... u have a fucking grudge against dark you should have a pat on the back for it just like everyone does cos I can't be bothered with ppl who do. If you read what me and carinth were talking about instead of jumping to conclusions then the outcome of what you said may be in a different light.
Please stop lying and just be honest Ivory
Lying? me? tell me SD what have i lied about? If its regard to dark. yeah we drop turrets but where have i said that we dont? so that does classify me being a liar. If you read what carinth said, then read wot i said after you tit. wait a min let me quote it for u.
can say the same thing about pimp we're bad as each other so lets not get into it.
u tit read what i said.... we're as bad as each other... personally i hate turret dropping.... i hate at times when my some clan members do it.... and fyi at times or any other clan for that matter have outnumbered dark and vice versa, its just the way the game works....... I dont go around bitching to PIMP or any other fucking clan for that matter if they outnumber us....so fuckin wot... i enjoy the game for what it is. You should do the same.... if you value ur principles on bitching then take it to jerry springer i'll watch you on t.v.
Oh and for the fact that if u see city comm saying that we have so and so ppl online does not necessarily mean that u'll see them on the battlefield. I dont force clan members to come for the fight. I dont give 2 fucks if we're outnumbered bring it on Mofo's is my attitude.
So what we have PPU's we're a monk clan. Then stick to your occupation of erradicating PPU's u aint doing a good job.
You wanna go bitch about a clan u fuckin bitch about it ingame you tit..... cos personally your comments have degraded this thread.... fucking pathetic.
If you dont appreciate what a fight is SD then dont participate in it.
Soz mods u can ban me if you want for flaming i dont care anymore this thread is fucking bollocks now.
Also i aint gonna bother replying to any more comments..... should have been closed ages ago.
dude shad wtf with the clan bashing...yuer gonna get this shit closed.....and i dont lie neither do most DarK afaik
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
noooooooooooooooooowhere near the huge number of turrets you guys drop, nor do we have 2 stealthers with the SPECIFIC task of going around stealth dropping turrets.
Thats BS and you know it shad. We dont have a large number of PE's as most users PE's are alts. I for sure am always fihgitng as a PE and i never stealth drop turrets. I have not dropped a turret in the past month. I can think of 3 other PE's that are regulars in OP fights for us and no they are nt designated stealth droppers as they are always with a wep out shooting people. Shad if you got a major grudge against dark how bout you try not bullshitting all this stuff liek your this all knowing saint. We have fun fighitng your clan and I liek a lot of people in your clan but your just an annoying fuck who likes to make up an imaginary world where your words are facts. Funny how you present yourself like your more sophisticated then everyone else and if you cant argue your point correctly the arguement is not worth your time and they must be acting childish. :rolleyes: Shouldnt you be in NC taking notes right now for your next bullshit response?
Psycho Killa
11-02-04, 23:47
Megaman was near an outpost and ran into 5 enemies of a certain clan.
It was megaman and a ppu against FIVE people.... just around the outpose and they ran into the outpost and.... DROPPED TURRETS roflmao!
I wont say who it is but hah its a clan previously mentioned.
Shadow Dancer
11-02-04, 23:54
Originally posted by joran420
dude shad wtf with the clan bashing...yuer gonna get this shit closed.....
O_o
Nearly everybody has mentioned clans in this thread.
Ok ok, I should have kept the "dark has alot of liars" comment in-game. But it's too late to edit. Soz.
Originally posted by joran420
and i dont lie
I know.
I'd like to clear up something..
We are going to stay pure black dragons fighting our enemies and no one in our own faction. Dont say otherwise.
Mirrorshades did not help FF and did not fight our own faction.
we never will
We had people leveling on redrock turrets yesterday and I'm getting a load of bullshit from my faction because of this. 8|
Shadow Dancer
12-02-04, 00:45
Yea I fight mirrorshades and crackheads as a matter of fact.
I think really kk needs to either sort out faction alliances so that city can fight anti city without every facing an allied/neutral faction.
Blue vs Red?
That would take all the fun out of watching chat while the map's changing color...
Maybe the SL/symp drain/gain needs to be tuned, but Blue vs Red... eh, that's no fun for those of us watching on the sidelines. :-)
Every clan has its alts and inactives...the bigger the clan the more of them maybe, but they will be still many more active than a clan half the size. Please dont talk your clans smaller than they are.
If a bigger clan decides that a smaller clan should not have any OP anymore and hack all of them, there are not much possibilities to get them back. That has nothing to do with weakness of the smaller clan, not every clan can and want to grow that much as the biggest clan just to be able to compete.
You could get allies, but as soon as the bigger clan looses one time, they will yell at you for having brought them and will get their allies as well which makes the numbers uneven again. Or they wont fight and hack it later.
You could fight on your own and loose most of the time. And even if you win one time because you got the right numbers and right, the bigger clan might come back later when people decreased or just ninjahack or beat you the next day when you have your usual amount of people on.
You could attack them when they dont have that many people on, but that for you have to have the numbers when they dont have the uber numbers. But thats impossible if you have the peak of numbers the same time.
(btw its not all about numbers in general, its still more about number of monks.)
Atm there is no way to adjust the imbalance big clans cause! NCF is just an answer but no solution, it makes things even more worse.
I would really welcome a memberlimit of 50 people for clans. And maybe a OP-limit too (only one OP of each sort), that would bring much more diversity to the worldmap.
•Super|\|ova•
12-02-04, 13:02
Originally posted by mehirc
Every clan has its alts and inactives...the bigger the clan the more of them maybe, but they will be still many more active than a clan half the size. Please dont talk your clans smaller than they are.
If a bigger clan decides that a smaller clan should not have any OP anymore and hack all of them, there are not much possibilities to get them back. That has nothing to do with weakness of the smaller clan, not every clan can and want to grow that much as the biggest clan just to be able to compete.
You could get allies, but as soon as the bigger clan looses one time, they will yell at you for having brought them and will get their allies as well which makes the numbers uneven again. Or they wont fight and hack it later.
You could fight on your own and loose most of the time. And even if you win one time because you got the right numbers and right, the bigger clan might come back later when people decreased or just ninjahack or beat you the next day when you have your usual amount of people on.
You could attack them when they dont have that many people on, but that for you have to have the numbers when they dont have the uber numbers. But thats impossible if you have the peak of numbers the same time.
(btw its not all about numbers in general, its still more about number of monks.)
Atm there is no way to adjust the imbalance big clans cause! NCF is just an answer but no solution, it makes things even more worse.
I would really welcome a memberlimit of 50 people for clans. And maybe a OP-limit too (only one OP of each sort), that would bring much more diversity to the worldmap. '
I must say I agree on EVERYTHING you just said.
Originally posted by •Super|\|ova•
'
I must say I agree on EVERYTHING you just said.
and i gotta agree with yu super... what he said was about right... but rather than having it number per clan, have it number per faction (should also stop everyone going to TG or TT)
Originally posted by IceStorm
Blue vs Red?
That would take all the fun out of watching chat while the map's changing color...
Maybe the SL/symp drain/gain needs to be tuned, but Blue vs Red... eh, that's no fun for those of us watching on the sidelines. :-)
Click on the city vs anti city button on the bottom left of the map, ice : ) That's how kk wants the game to be, but they also want complex faction interaction. You can't have both, which is why we're having so many problems.
I like the idea of limiting ops by faction, it would encourage people to play more then just the two big factions. Maybe some of the smaller ones would actualy become active. There is however a problem. There is much justification for limiting ops, but at the same time is it fair to the big clans? Or not even big, is it fair to the powerful clans? What reward does a clan get for being stronger then the rest? At the moment they get name recognition by owning 1/4 or even 1/2 the map. If you limit ops, then at best they can make sure to constantly raid and kick out other clans form their ops. I assume once you've reeached the limit, either you can't hack new ops or if you do, it sets them to "neutral" Endgame is already pretty boring for most, setting a cap on what you can do would make it worse.
So this needs some more thinking : )
I don't think limiting the number of ops per clan or the number of members per faction is such a great idea. That will suck alot of fun out of the game when your friend wants to join your faction but instead gets stuck with DRE or some other useless faction.
I do however think the best way to split up the map would be to limit clans to 50 people. It shouldn't be that hard for KK to implement. And i can see in this thread that alot of people feel the same way i do. So i guess the next step would be for someone to make a new thread with a poll so KK can actually see the number of people that feel this way. Then it could changed. ;)
Why bother limiting clans to 50 people?
So you can have DrD, DrD-X, DrD-XA, DrD-01 and so on?
It is pointless, just live with it, create an organisation that people will WANT to leave their current clan and come to you. Why have KK implement all these systems that stop you having to do any work?
Steve
always thought 2 things KK should do is:
1) They provide a benefit to staying in or switching to an under populated faction.
Diamond needs workers / soldiers so they are providing a
weekly salary and xp bonus to all Diamond faction members and
a reduced faction signing cost / faction sympathy for new members.
2) Turn on clan wars and make them override factions.
Originally posted by CR@SH
I don't think limiting the number of ops per clan or the number of members per faction is such a great idea. That will suck alot of fun out of the game when your friend wants to join your faction but instead gets stuck with DRE or some other useless faction.
I do however think the best way to split up the map would be to limit clans to 50 people. It shouldn't be that hard for KK to implement. And i can see in this thread that alot of people feel the same way i do. So i guess the next step would be for someone to make a new thread with a poll so KK can actually see the number of people that feel this way. Then it could changed. ;)
You missed the point, crash. If Tangent can only have say 8 ops, then there would be no incentive for so many clans to be Tangent. They would go to an underpopulated faction, since they'd have a better chance at owning ops then. There's nothing wrong with being Diamond, it's just underpopulated because everyone wants to join a popular faction and have a better chance at getting in on the op action. But if Tangent nolonger offers any chance of getting ops, clans will move elsewhere.
It would be seriously nice to have each faction be populated and active in op fights. Then kk might realize how screwed up the faction alignments are, that we're not black&white. Currently you can cut out most factions and only consider two factions as at war with each other. Any other factions are secondary support. Maybe they have a strong clan now and then, but even then it's just to support their side's main faction. If suddenly each faction was populated with clans and taking a part in op fights, then you couldn't deny their existance anymore.
I hear what your trying to say Carinth, but i still don't think that making a max limit on outposts will help anything. Actually i think it would do nothing more than suck the fun out of the game for alot of people. Whats the point in going after an enemy's op if you already have your limit? Thats the thing you won't, and not only that it would cause alot of fights within the faction if Clan A has all 8 of the faction's limit and Clan B is not happy with it. Well i think you can see how messed up things would get.
I'm not disagreeing with you, setting a limit on the number of ops would make some clans go to different factions to try and control ops. And who knows it could be better but i believe there is a better solution and one that won't adversely effect the amount of fun that can be had inside neocron.
There's nothing wrong with being Diamond,
I don't think Diamond can gank FA. That's a big difference between Diamond and Tangent, map-wise (assuming there's FAs with aspirations to ophood, or something).
I think Carinths suggestion is quite good, it prevents single factions from controlling the entire map, but still lets that faction prevent others from holding ops [sounds contradictory but if ops taken past the limit become neutral it makes sense ^^]. This in turn actually promotes a faction's co-ordination and faction diversity.
This would also open the map up to many players for GRing, which supposedly is still a problem especially for new players [high runspeed or vehicles works for me], while giving smaller clans ops to fight over instead of the few large clans squashing others who dare to take one of their 4 factories.
Lets face it, players join large clans both for companionship and because they want to win all the time. Nothing wrong with those motives, but lets make some allowances for small or new clans who want to fight but cannot take on the large clans for whatever reason.
DX-Defender
13-02-04, 01:21
large clans suck.
@Carinth
Shit dammit never thought about that :D
That would be really cool. Take all OPs divide with all factions and then add + 2 dunno what you get then but that would be better then today.
Even I dont think we need so many OPs as we do but thats not my opinion its my leader and its his choise not mine, I can just follow our guide lines and do what I am told.
But if this went truw we needed to take strategy point ops like hold on to the best ops.
Maybe even cap to maximum 1 OP think "ress,cst,mine,comsite" thats 4 to each faction, if they get one sorry cant have it and give faction 100% or maybe 80% to the whole faction so the clan wouldnt go inwar in their own faction :p
Originally posted by IceStorm
I don't think Diamond can gank FA. That's a big difference between Diamond and Tangent, map-wise (assuming there's FAs with aspirations to ophood, or something).
Ice, try looking at the anti city alignments. The city has it easy, we fight both each other and the city at the same time. The only internal fight that i know of is biotech and tangent. I vaguely recall one other, dont remmeber the factions. The anti city on the other hand almost all have at least one hostile among our ranks. Tsunami for example is one of the worst factions to play and still try to be anti city. We are allied with Diamond and Biotech, hostile to CityAdmin, Protopharma, Crahn, and Black Dragon. Two enemies in the city, two enemies in anti city, all our allies in the city, and everyone else neutral. If we can get by fighting neutrals, I think Diamond would be ok fighting FA : ) Ofcourse this wouldn't be necessary if they put in the clan wars system.
Originally posted by CR@SH
I hear what your trying to say Carinth, but i still don't think that making a max limit on outposts will help anything. Actually i think it would do nothing more than suck the fun out of the game for alot of people. Whats the point in going after an enemy's op if you already have your limit? Thats the thing you won't, and not only that it would cause alot of fights within the faction if Clan A has all 8 of the faction's limit and Clan B is not happy with it. Well i think you can see how messed up things would get.
I'm not disagreeing with you, setting a limit on the number of ops would make some clans go to different factions to try and control ops. And who knows it could be better but i believe there is a better solution and one that won't adversely effect the amount of fun that can be had inside neocron.
I understand, that was the problem I had with the idea. It doesn't mean the idea isn't viable, just that some more brainstormin is needed. There would definitly need to be something to reward clans for being good. Once you claim your set amount of ops, and can hold those off, the game would get boring fast. That's why I suggested something like trying to hack an op when you're already reached the limit, will set the op to "neutral" status. I Don't know if neutral is possible atm, but I don't think it'd be that hard. Set the op to the "insects" faction or something like that ;D Once you've reached as many ops as you can hold, you can still op fight. Your objective then is to push other factions out of their ops, freeing them up for an allied faction.
The only internal fight that i know of is biotech and tangent
N.E.X.T. and ProtoPharma are also enemies.
If we can get by fighting neutrals, I think Diamond would be ok fighting FA : )
Why bother when it's easier to be Tangent?
If Tangent can only have say 8 ops, then there would be no incentive for so many clans to be Tangent.
I smell a return to multiple clans under the same banner, a la CA armor...
You can't have both, which is why we're having so many problems.
Well, you're having problems. For anyone on the sidelines (Devs, unclanned) it's fun to watch people complain. :-)
anyways i lost the plot
oh and TOM CRUSE PLAYS ON PLUTO... look for teh proof
http://www.synergyxr.net/~comie/tomniv.jpg
FirestarXL
13-02-04, 02:56
I like Carinth's idea of faction OP limits. Or rather than a hard limit, make it so that above a certain number you start to get a reason to not take more ops, which could be anything.
Maybe above 8 ops in your faction means your op security is to open to hacking (integrating something from hacknet here) or the enemy only needs one/two hackers to take it, something like that (I'm sure there's better ways of doing it).
@Crash
Well if you have so many OPs so each faction can max that would be a problem just solve it like having 3 factions that need to fight "if the other max thier OP pool" or even more, the thing is NC need more clans in other factions ever seen strong NEXT or DRE clans? I think I am one of the only ones that have been in a DRE clan lol :D
what we need is more factions holding ops its true and i cant tell u how many6 times we have tried to unload ops to FA and allies
but Problem is we give an op to FA and within 1 day TT or crahn will have taken it cuz simpley put FA cant fend for themselves atm enough to stand up to the mega clans
and i would LOVE to see dre on the map would not even consider taking the op outta principle :P
I cant post under my own name as admin here requires diff emails for all users - so note this is NOT zigzag but Astraea.
I have noticed most ppl join big clans for the convenience and basically to get stuff. The ego kiddies just like to win.
On the issue of ops on pluto. The leaders of FF do not want the number of ops we hold atm. We like to PvP tho, and that is how we have landed up with the ops we have.
This is what I will do. This weekend - FF will give some ops out to smaller clans - what ops and how - I will decide with lore later. We will then watch what happens to em and see if NCF and DarK can actually stop themselves from zerging these smaller clans outta their ops as NCF have done this past week with Silent and DarK did in the past with the ops we gave to FA.
I see that ppl come here and post the most reasonable sounding arguments and justifications - yet ingame, their actions completely contradict all they say. Talk is very cheap - lets see what happens in reality.
So if u are a clan that feels u can hold ops mail Casius ingame or DM him :p
darkservent
13-02-04, 13:49
Originally posted by ZigZag
I cant post under my own name as admin here requires diff emails for all users - so note this is NOT zigzag but Astraea.
I have noticed most ppl join big clans for the convenience and basically to get stuff. The ego kiddies just like to win.
On the issue of ops on pluto. The leaders of FF do not want the number of ops we hold atm. We like to PvP tho, and that is how we have landed up with the ops we have.
This is what I will do. This weekend - FF will give some ops out to smaller clans - what ops and how - I will decide with lore later. We will then watch what happens to em and see if NCF and DarK can actually stop themselves from zerging these smaller clans outta their ops as NCF have done this past week with Silent and DarK did in the past with the ops we gave to FA.
I see that ppl come here and post the most reasonable sounding arguments and justifications - yet ingame, their actions completely contradict all they say. Talk is very cheap - lets see what happens in reality.
So if u are a clan that feels u can hold ops mail Casius ingame or DM him :p
He said it all.. And u guys imply that we're not considerate...hmpf..*shrug*.
Originally posted by darkservent
He said it all.. And u guys imply that we're not considerate...hmpf..*shrug*.
*cough* She not He :)
Originally posted by darkservent
He said it all.. And u guys imply that we're not considerate...hmpf..*shrug*.
Here boy!! Have an OP!! Good doggy!!!
Giving OPs to other clans solves nothign, if they're enemies come and take it off them in a fair fight will you leave the OP in their control?
No you wont, so although the maps slightly more colourful the server politics are still borked.
That what astraea said is good because after all it was FF that
started it :)
They took half the map and became a huge clan.As I see it
NCF is just trying to stop so the whole map won't be yellow.
But if FF is now giving out op's to smaller clans it will be better
I hope.At least if all big clans stay out of it but I do not think so.
But another reason I think some clans want to hold the op's is because of the security settings.Let everyone GR to any op and
I think alot of ppl will be pleased.Because no matter if ppl want
to attack an op they run to it anyway.Same with CRP that is closed now and then.We just run in from another op to at least try to kill some FF and have some fun :)
darkservent
13-02-04, 23:45
Originally posted by woOpin
*cough* She not He :)
OOPS forgot that. Well Atleast it does prove that we arnt bigheaded (Not sayin that u lot are too), just past experiances show that alot of clans were bigheaded.
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