View Full Version : A revelation of the Gentank
I was blown away today. Ive been leveling my friends GenTank but never really PvPed with him. I decided to give it a whirl and asked a fellow PE and friend to come Neofrag with me.
The friend is a low tech pistol PE like myself who is of very close skill to me. When we duel PE vs PE, no matter who wins, the winner only has under 75 health. In reality it was basically like I was dueling myself.
Second, the Gentank. He is 41/54 and uses a zero slotted CS with percentages of 136 damage, 119 aiming. He is a fighter but has a few gimpages.
We dueled 6 times and I won 4. I was shocked. For all the Gentanks whining about the crappy CS aim, I fought this fast as hell PE and I swear to you in at least one of the duels I tagged every single solitary shot. CS damage boost or not, the aiming is still the same. And I figure people out there have more than 119 aiming on their CS.
My mind was blown. I had no idea that tanks were that good. To be quite honest with you I am starting to wonder how I ever won a duel against a tank in the first place.
Where am I going with this? Its simple, fix the aiming on the Liberator. I have been supportive of the Tank damage boost and the other pistol damage boost, but I had no idea how friggin easy a CS is to shoot. I know the Liberator is a tl 91 item and low tech and thats why I was resigned to accept it as being so low. But plain and simple, it is not acceptable. Most likely I will put Jest on the shelf for a bit. I will play my other accounts and friends accounts for the time being unless I get in the mood for some low tech pistols. That is my protest until something is done.
cs never had bad aim..... I like it more than pistol aim.....
its tank o cron again... tanks got a huge dmg boost and apus where nerfed.....
I really hope kk sets it all back to normal..
Psycho Killa
10-02-04, 09:41
If normal is 2 patches ago then id rather keep it this way o_O
Though maybe we can actualy find a nice medium for once HAH!
Fire apoc hurts now :(
And HL tickles.. go figure
Originally posted by deac
cs never had bad aim..... I like it more than pistol aim.....
its tank o cron again... tanks got a huge dmg boost and apus where nerfed.....
I really hope kk sets it all back to normal.. I guess I was always led to believe the CS had horrible aim.
I don't know if we need to go back to normal. Like I said Im for the damage increase. I hope we can bring the other weapons up to the level of the tanks.
Originally posted by Jest
For all the Gentanks whining about the crappy CS aim, I fought this fast as hell PE and I swear to you in at least one of the duels I tagged every single solitary shot. CS damage boost or not, the aiming is still the same. And I figure people out there have more than 119 aiming on their CS.
I never understood why tanks are complaining about the crappy aiming . I mean the stat might be bad but a good CS aims so fucking fast, theres nearly no difference to other guns.
TBH i couldnt believe that, so went to the testserver when the new tank stuff came in and HELL my aim was fast.
So all you tank "we need more WEP and H.C" stfu, you can put all INT into wep and all STR into h-c AND ITS GREAT!
the cs had random aim 2 patches ago.. last patch made it aim skill dependant.. plus it got a small boost. along with the rest of the aim dependant weapons.
Time ago I did exactly the same with Fawkess, he used to kill my PE with barely hp left... once I made a tank while we were testing resists on a new setup and won him several matches, I was stunned.
True is that the CS had 218% aim (I even managed to have 245%), but anyway I never used a tank for anything but hunting with a ppu. He used liberator either, as always... I think the libby should get its aiming fixed, if a pistol user cant land 4 shots in a fully locked reticle then who can...
Fix Libby aiming, give it 28% burst bonus again, THEN balance it as a TL91 pistol.
Mumblyfish
10-02-04, 12:19
Liberator aiming isn't broken. Fix it? What. The. Fuck.
CS aim was never crap there were just alot of crap tanks out there but it can be hard to hit people who can dance properly but that happens with all weapons.
Libby aim is fine and always has been, why do people always whine about it?
As long as I have had a CS (very long time) its always had a good aim imo.
Originally posted by Jest
Ive been leveling my friends GenTank... Why do I always worry when I hear statements like this? Please, don't share your account with anyone, it's not worth the risk.
N
I think cs damage was ok, lib aiming seems off becuase it has a 4 round burst meaning you have to hit with the first bullet for the rest to go home if u press fire again when the 4th bullet is in the chamber the next burst wont hit home and its almost impossible to judge when u can fire again, thats why lib rof is best limited to around 340 (if you want to time bursts) or 370 (if u wanna just hold your finger down) per min if you want to be really good unless you have an unaturally good aim in my experiance, thats why i find judge, BS and ROLH so easy to aim becuase i know when the gun is ready to fire again unlike the lib which is almost impossible to judge.
morale of the story is........................ CS is piss easy but using it means you get hit a hell of alot, also Blacksun is still more powerful.......... soooooo when he comes to whineing people who deliberately nerf themselves with a weapon like the liberator should really stfu :D and get themselves another weapon or some skill.
Im pretty tired incase some of this doesnt make to much sense.
Dribble Joy
10-02-04, 13:19
I cannot believe tanks ever complained about aiming on the CS.
Even while leveling my n00b tankeh with fuck all hc and shitty guns, the aiming was almost akin to the aiming I currently have on my PE.
Add to fact that once the recticle lock has been obtained, it's almost impossible to loose.
With the accidental dmg boost the CS got in the last patch, it's tank'o'cron again.
Originally posted by Scikar
Fix Libby aiming, give it 28% burst bonus again, THEN balance it as a TL91 pistol.
I fthat was done, they would HAVE to reduce the dmg, the libby is overpowered as it is, it just never hits enough.
it is quite easy yah. altho its gonna be even easier for you coming from a position of learning to aim with a libby.. altho i would wager the pe you fought wasnt that good.. i can take down loads of medium level tanks without any trouble.. with an average player on both sides i think the pe would have won.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
I fthat was done, they would HAVE to reduce the dmg, the libby is overpowered as it is, it just never hits enough.
I think that would be acceptable.
Why have a borked over powered libby when you can have a working balanced libby.
Fix the aiming + fix the burst + lower the damage to bring it into line with its TL 91 status = everyone will be happy.
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
Liberator aiming isn't broken. Fix it? What. The. Fuck.
Look at Lib range cap. Compare to TL63 Rapidfire SMG range cap. Explain.
Originally posted by Jest
I guess I was always led to believe the CS had horrible aim.
Nah, the CS aim wasnt bad, it was just hard to aim for too many people. But when one used to play a tank all the time, CS aim got easy due to practice.
Now, if I got it right you went from a good low tech PE aka Liberator user to CS. No big deal you could waste ppl with a CS. From my own experience I would say CS and Lib aiming follow the same pattern just on different speed. Staying calm and aim properly is the key on both weapons, just on the Lib you have to do it on a much higher speed and faster movements. Thats in my opinion why you find CS aim so easy.
I was wondering myself why people find CS so hard to aim and realized it after I was standing behind a friend who played and switched from rifle PE to his CS tank. Too many weapons dont require you to aim properly to hit something.
Mumblyfish
10-02-04, 16:08
Originally posted by Scikar
Look at Lib range cap. Compare to TL63 Rapidfire SMG range cap. Explain.
You want an explanation? Here.
The Liberator IS NOT the TL69 Rapidfire SMG. There you go. Sorted.
Clownst0pper
10-02-04, 16:14
The liberator aim is fine.
Myself and Blade where using liberator before it even had a dmg boost or a clip increase in size.
Most people abandon it before they get used to it, as its not as easy as a ray pistol.
Personally ive always found the Cursed Soul aim a joy, except when some pesky PE comes strafing round me!:(
Originally posted by Lucjan
Nah, the CS aim wasnt bad, it was just hard to aim for too many people.
I Agree.
From my own experience I would say CS and Lib aiming follow the same pattern just on different speed. Staying calm and aim properly is the key on both weapons, just on the Lib you have to do it on a much higher speed and faster movements. Thats in my opinion why you find CS aim so easy.
Er, CS aim and Libby aim are quite different. Libs, from what I've done with them/against people who use them, don't hit backwards and don't hit enough for how closed the reticle is. If you close the CS reticle on someone, you can take it off them for about 1-2 seconds and still get a 4 blob hit when you fire.
Personally I think Lib is fine there are enough idoit friendly pistols as it is.
but im all for fixing the wyatt.. heh
ive played a capped char in every class and it has to be said tank once you get used to it is the easiest char to lvl, pvp, pvm, setup out of all of the classes it really is the easiest :)
i admit i was a bad tank i know people that are alot better than i ever was but anybody that complains about tanks being underpowered is simply crap
imo pvp spies are the hardest to setup then pe's because theres so many options.
apus and ppus are possiably the easiest to setup
the hardest char to play in game though atm is ppu simply because you have too many spells for quick belt fuck all mana if you want to cap all spells oh and runcasting yeah right :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
You want an explanation? Here.
The Liberator IS NOT the TL69 Rapidfire SMG. There you go. Sorted.
Oh so it's normal for a rare weapon to be inferior to the non-rare version?
Originally posted by Scikar
Oh so it's normal for a rare weapon to be inferior to the non-rare version?
Lets say it isnt the only exception. Just another example: range on TPC and CS. 650+ on TPC compared to 400ish on CS.
Originally posted by Lucjan
Lets say it isnt the only exception. Just another example: range on TPC and CS. 650+ on TPC compared to 400ish on CS.
The damage output on a CS more than makes up for that, though. And are you really going to try and fight with a TPC 650 meters away?
I'm that PE Jest dueled...
That was my 2rd tank 1v1 since the patch and since I rerolled Black Dragon. I always used Judge and Blacksun before. Funny fighting a tank that doesn't miss. I've killed many before without getting hit more than once. The aiming on the lib is just horrible. I'd think the lowtech pistols would be easiest to aim... Lowtech should be possible, I dont care if the gun is only TL 91. Judgement Launcher is 90, Pain Easer is 93, and RoG is 98. Lib aiming needs to be the same as the hightech pistols... If it is then to powerful then fine nerf it.
Libby aim is not fine. I have played a low tech pistol PE for a year straight, with a brief testing of rifles and later a brief testing of high tech pistols. I know how to use a Libby and can usually beat other Libby users no problem. I don't suck with it, and don't give me that "you just have to practice with it." I know, I have, which is why my aim is good. Which is why I also have such good aiming with a CS.
Scikar I think the fixed aiming and burst increase would be overkill, I think fixing the aim would be fine. As it stands now, if Lupus' weapon fixes do not boost the Libby in any way, I will LoM to high tech. I hate going with whats good, but I also hate losing every damn match to players with guns 10x more powerful than mine. You like using a wepaon that takes skill? Me too. I also like winning once and a while. If you want to use a weapon that takes skill then use the Wyatt. Why dont you? Because you cant win with it. All the people making these Liberator comments, if you havent extensively dueled/fought in PP/fought in op wars since the latest round of patches, then please dont give me that Libby is fine crap.
Originally posted by Nidhogg
Why do I always worry when I hear statements like this? Please, don't share your account with anyone, it's not worth the risk.
N Don't worry Niddy I have known him irl for 5 years and we were room mates. :p
Clownst0pper
10-02-04, 17:36
Don't worry Niddy I have known him irl for 5 years and we were room mates
Ud be suprised how friends could be divided when an MC5 SA comes into the Pictures :lol:
Originally posted by Xian
The damage output on a CS more than makes up for that, though. And are you really going to try and fight with a TPC 650 meters away?
No doubt about that, but that isnt the point. Range = aim and aim speed. Nerf the range you nerf the aim as well. Range itself doesnt matter in that case at all, no sane person would go with a plasma cannon for me then 100m anyway.
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