View Full Version : Melee and OP wars
ok my melee tanks been to 3 op wars now since he took up the blade once again.
but one thing i noticed is how useless melee can be at op wars.
the only one where i was making any impact was when a attack on grant then the push to TGcanyon was done, then there was a lot of runners many of whom were unbuffed so i was able to help take down a number of people.
however, you throw a PPU buffs on the runner, and the melee tank is useless, im mean useless.
well not quite, i was a usefull distraction to the enemy they try and hit me running aroun at full speed ingoring the rest of the force, qute funny in a way, but not the point.
melee needs something to make it more usefull in op wars, dunno if sorting this bug out will work (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90236) but at least it would be something, but melee against PPU buffs is useless, at least PEs, H-C tanks spys can do damage to buffed runners, just seems like in those occasions for melee i might as well pull my trusty slotted bad out and hit em with that:(
im no noob with melee ive killed CS tanks etc with melee but, when it comes to op wars i might as well carried on leveling at CRP for all the impact i make on the ops wars.
but something needs to be done to make it usefull in battle.
melee weapon mods would be nice for sure;)
Damage mods would be nice. Something to do with all those extra slots. I'm thinking poison mainly, since that makes the most sense for a claw/blade type weapon. Since the chaos mobs alledgedly do poison, maybe we could have that kind of poison, rather than counters, although I guess the counters would make more sense (nasty looking poison dripping off the blades and into the victims bloody wounds :D )
I was never much use in op wars with my melee tank, but way back early last year, I knew this melee tank in my clan named Berdan, who did some serious killing in op wars :wtf: Dunno how the hell he managed it considering the distance/lag issue, but I saw him frequently do his fair share.
it's been said that, because of the way MC is coded, damage mods are impossible. something to do with the fact that MC weps have no ammo. i'd have a tough time finding the post where this was stated, but my recollection is that a developer posted this.
i'm not sure we need mods, but maybe the ability to cut through defelctors would be nice, and a wee increase in range may assist in general, and in the infamous "no-damage" bug.
How about making melee weapons penetrate shelter and deflector by lets say 75%?
Clownst0pper
08-02-04, 17:26
Why you think I lomed Koro out of it? :confused:
Originally posted by s0apy
it's been said that, because of the way MC is coded, damage mods are impossible. something to do with the fact that MC weps have no ammo. i'd have a tough time finding the post where this was stated, but my recollection is that a developer posted this. You mean this post? (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=1206460#post1206460) :p
Anyway, I think melee would be definitely improved if the most common bug with it could be fixed, y'know, the one with it appearing as if you're hitting someone while you're actually not.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Why you think I lomed Koro out of it? :confused: i just figured it was cos your nibbish:p
Rento Webex
08-02-04, 18:22
melee is not useless at op wars it's quite the opposite, I have played my melee tank at op wars and ripped the living day lights out of countless people but the award goes to Fenix on his melee tank at Avenger mine with warrior ppu'ing him (I was on the ppu but warrior is sexy) and we ended up killing nearly all of the opposing force and taking the op hacks back and reseting full security.
then imo there PPUs werent doing there job, if the melee tank was able to damage them then i think the PPU for there side must of been sleeping or somthing
lol and i fough the whole of the last op war un buffed, only died when i fateled, but the damage is just so suckyyou hit a holy shletered and defeltered tank and let me know the damage cos you will be lucky if you get about 5-10 damage
live with it...
pistol pes does...
Psycho Killa
08-02-04, 20:08
All melee tanks and pistol pe's are good for is a distraction to the other side nothing more :mad:
well its a bit better for pe's with the damage boost if they get a pc3.
Psyco Groupie
08-02-04, 20:18
doesnt pob dodge def ?
my mates melee tank keeps ppus busy enuf they cant attend to their fighters
Shadow Dancer
08-02-04, 20:23
Melee should have a mod that bypasses deflector!!!!!!!1111111oneone
Yeah melee should have some impact on atleast ppu's deflectors.. but as always it should not be overpowered, cause then because lots and lots of ppl are the way they are, everyone will play melee tank cause they have an advantage instead of learning how to play..
And I have a strong feeling that there will be sooo much whine on melee "bypassing" deflectors that all classes wants something that does that.. It's not only the ppu that would suffer from something like that, Pe's will get a shit hard time vs melee's if deflectors wont do anygood and especially if the whine of most will succeed and all weapons bypass the deflector :).. But Melee should atleast be able to hurt someone with buffs on..
It's hard to give something good to a class without everyone start to complain and want it too.. god forbid to give some classes a tool to fight another class better than another. I know there are only apus who can debuff a ppu, and that have led us to EVERYONE wants to be able to debuff cause I want to be ubaar.. imagine a tank being able to debuff.. and then he can also debuff a pe.. then it's going to be hard to play pe aswell.. or pe vs pe.. Pe's also rely on their psi skills to have an "edge" in fighting.
Well turned out to be more than just about the melee :).. But give melee's atleast a "ammo" mod and then take it from there..
Originally posted by ezza
then imo there PPUs werent doing there job, if the melee tank was able to damage them then i think the PPU for there side must of been sleeping or somthing
All non-city clans on plutos ppus must sleep during battle then :p fenix almost always has one of the highest kill counts in op wars from what i see, however granted you cant say melee is viable because one person can own with it, so i agree it might need a boost such as giving it mods.
Originally posted by deac
live with it...
pistol pes does... no i wont fucking live with it, if you want pistol PEs boosted then shout for fucking boosts, you dont just say live with it idiot
edit @ Cyphor: you take a fully buffed tank, and get a DG user to slash at him and the damage is pityful, i mean i taken people down but thats cos they wernt buffed, aint disputing melee can kill people cos it can, aint seen fenyx in action at ops so dunno how it goes down
Clownst0pper
09-02-04, 01:38
i just figured it was cos your nibbish
Meow :cool:
how bout on all piercing melee weapons, add a DOT bleed...would work same as poison...but would be a bleed since that makes more sense...atleast to me anyway...
and for the energy melee weaps just add different damage mods...fire/xray/etc....that would boost melee...
but yea anyway i agree...melee does need somethin done...a friend of mine in RL wants to play neocron, he wants to be melee...but i had to tell him melee wasnt too useful in op wars...heavy tanks still takeover...this was after he had watched the FanG op war videos...and we didnt see any melee tanks...
Thunderbolt is viable now, its not that much less then holy para now.
put 52 into psi use and only spc mst to 3, and rest in PPU and youll have 505% on TL3 heal with capped ROF.
A good aim helps aswell ezza ;p
But if you get that TL3 heal on them, making holy heal impossible, then you can kill anyone, ive taken down PPUs myself...
its called tactics :rolleyes:
not jsut standing in front of the enemy and holding down fire button then going for a cry on teh forums when u can't kill them sheesh ! stay on saturn plz u would prbly quit from the anguish of op fights on pluto, as most clans actually use tactics here (all tactics some worse then others)
KramerTheWeird
09-02-04, 05:02
I do melee in pepper park and have quite a lot of fun with it too. If I want to I can stay inside pp forever unless buffs are all fading at the same time and I can suprise a lot of people and have had some kills under my belt. Once a PPU comes I become completely useless :). A person with a capable PPU helping them out wont' even be phased by melee and it's more of a joke and I feel like swithing to my poor baseball bat once that happens. And our only strength, mobility, is stripped from us thanks to parashocks. So I agree melee is utterly pointless in op fights. Than again I do not use Paw of Bear or Devil's Grace, either.
I will give melee users a positive in op fights as they are generally the ones who get retreating enemies who need s/d or whatever easiest, as they are persistant and can run very fast.
so you dont have the 6 mst to get a melee 1 boost? hmmm... maybe I should lom those 3 points thats a pretty big difference...
Originally posted by Ryuben
its called tactics :rolleyes:
not jsut standing in front of the enemy and holding down fire button then going for a cry on teh forums when u can't kill them sheesh ! stay on saturn plz u would prbly quit from the anguish of op fights on pluto, as most clans actually use tactics here (all tactics some worse then others)
what ever fuck of out my thread if you aint got nothing to say of use
Originally posted by J. Folsom
You mean this post? (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=1206460#post1206460) :p
Anyway, I think melee would be definitely improved if the most common bug with it could be fixed, y'know, the one with it appearing as if you're hitting someone while you're actually not.
Has anything like this happened since the last patch ? I only ask because before, I was close to winning duals with CS tanks in NF - and that was with a shitty CON setup. Now I have a decent CON setup and I am half dead to a CS before I even make a mark on them o_O Seems I can keep slashing and slashing and their health hardly goes down. Although the bug above could attribute to this. :(
Only that the CS has been boosted by accident so it would be hurting you more.
As for running from melee tanks being classed as tactics, its as bad as hiding behind GRs and standing on boxes are for other classes.
Originally posted by J. Folsom
You mean this post? (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=1206460#post1206460) :p
Anyway, I think melee would be definitely improved if the most common bug with it could be fixed, y'know, the one with it appearing as if you're hitting someone while you're actually not.
actually, i managed to find the specific post i was referring to here:
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=909585#post909585
there are other posts by lupus in this thread that also mention the problem with MC and ammo mods. he infers that it's being worked on, or in the pipeline but no promises, which seems fair given the amount of other stuff that needs attending to.
my guess with MC "missing the target", since it's related to the low range combined with normal network lag problems, is that it'll be a long time getting fixed. something about it makes me feel it's linked to various fundamental problems with the games design, none of which are serious enough to affect any other aspect of the game.
a small increase in MC range may help, but not too much otherwise it would end up wholly unrealistic.
[edit: i should say "another" small increase in MC range, since this has already been tried a few patches ago, but to only limited effect. then they went and broke it again, for mobs at least, with the new, superfast versions of various bots that escape most attempts to hit them]
well been fighting most of tonight, it seems maybe i was a bit rash with my opinion.
i personally wasnt seeing the damage tbh, but had clan mate who was watching saying i was dealing out good damage.
and think i killed spike II 3 times with my tank:)
I have something to say about melee tanks
Did they nerf the range? Seems like i cant hit people like i was able to before (including mobs!)
Its especially anoying on the faster mobs.
Cant Neocron just make a check on YOUR SIDE where as it takes the x and y values of the strike area of where you attacked and then checks it with where your target was, if there is a value that is equal, then you scored a hit, that info is sent to the server, the server registers it as a hit and then sends it back to the other person as a hit.
no possible way you could exploit this i believe
Doesnt seem like Neocron does this as it is as ive hacked and hacked at the really fast mobs in this game... or reletively fast, and ive not been hitting them even when im friggin right next to them on my screen!
meh could still use some rares past str 103
i think the range was nerfed after the increase they gave us i think they took the range increase away in the patch after
Lupus says hes working on something to try fix the whole run from melee tanks and your invunerable to them feature.
PoB>DG in pvp because its not really specked for as much as energy and some ppu get lazy at op wars expecting on energy weapons to be so dont caste deflector and melee is handy for running about behind enemy lines killing those who are hurt waiting for heals or arent buffed but otherwise they are rather limited in opwars.
Oh and have 5 or 6 anti-shocks in your belt or your just going to get fucked by para.
Why didnt they put para resist in melee armour because it renders melee ridiculously useless, we cant even turret like other classes can.
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