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View Full Version : Idea: removal of foreign casted primaries.



bounty
06-02-04, 22:18
Ok, i'm sure I will get flamed by a lot of people for this thread(phsycho groupie prays for threads like these :lol: ) But the truth is....


I think the idea of foreign casted buffs especially level 3 buffs from a ppu is really a dumb idea. WHy not either just include the benefits from these buffs in specialized armor for certain classes, or just take out all these to begin with.

In my opinion these level 3 buffs are just another group of tools that makes reliance on the ppu that much more important during an op fight. In an even battle, even these level 3 buffs alone give one side a overwhelmingly huge advantage in not only health, but athletics and resists(individually it technically isn't that much, but over say 10 people with buffs, we are talking huge amounts of added HP).

Not only that but to be really honest, sure it was MY CHOICE to become a ppu and some will say it is just part of MY JOB as a ppu to do so, but i get really tired of switching between all these level 3 buffs in order to give everyone what they need. And this really takes away from my own personal fun of healing and sheltering/deflecting during an op battle. Again, i'm sure some will cry that it is part of the ppu's skill to keep these buffs on his men during an entire fight. But i say "boooo" to that.

My next argument for this proposal is time. I know we are talkiing seconds here, but its really annoying to have to sit and spend time before an op war or before a fight buffing. I guess it again could be argued that it is part of the op war set up and what not, but those are extra seconds you could be fighting

The only really true reason i don't like this argument is it does indeed only add to the problem of specialization. The level 3 buffs does allow the other people to spec points into tradeskilling and what not and put those points into a combat skill.

I still think either making these buffs obtainable through specialized armor or bone implants or removing them completely is a good idea. It in summary would help to further reduce the imbalances that having a ppu vs. not having a ppu causes, takes time away from boring buffing sessions before fights and gets you into the action sooner, and makes (imho) fighting more enjoyable and less stressful for the ppu and reduces his cry for added safeslots.

Again just an idea, there are many variations to this idea that could acheive the same goal. I don't know of complete removal of buffs in general is a good idea and like i said, adding the same effects through specialized armor/implants, is the way to go instead, or complete removal in general.

Shadow Dancer
06-02-04, 23:59
I don't think KK will do much with ppus, at least not for 5 months.


Sometimes I get the feeling they don't care much about balance. :(

Glok
07-02-04, 00:11
What is the point of a PPU if it's not buffs? o_O

People crying for the removal of the entire reason for existence of the PPU really make me laugh. (that includes you, QD.) All I think needs to be done is to further reduce the effectiveness of foreign cast shelter/deflector, and to hugely nerf the 2 higher level heals, both for self and foreign cast.

Psyco Groupie
07-02-04, 00:13
talk to the hand brotha!

(no)

Birkoff
07-02-04, 00:23
Erm.... so ther would be no use for like half the ppu spells?

No no no no.... I'm not a ppu and i don't rely on one but no :)

Mumblyfish
07-02-04, 00:35
No. Timed low-level/high-frequency buffs is a fantastic way to debilitate your enemy, and I do it whenever I can (yep, primaries too).

40$Poser
07-02-04, 00:38
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I don't think KK will do much with ppus, at least not for 5 months.


Sometimes I get the feeling they don't care much about balance. :(

ppus are suppose to be the support class. So now that parashock isn't as bad... people wish to remove what KK set their purpose to be? Support other runners? That's just ridiculous and stupid.

QuantumDelta
07-02-04, 00:45
Originally posted by Glok
What is the point of a PPU if it's not buffs? o_O

People crying for the removal of the entire reason for existence of the PPU really make me laugh. (that includes you, QD.) All I think needs to be done is to further reduce the effectiveness of foreign cast shelter/deflector, and to hugely nerf the 2 higher level heals, both for self and foreign cast.
The difference is I know what I'm doing, and what I'm talking about.

bounty
07-02-04, 01:06
Buffing(btw this thread wasn't talking about shelter or deflector at all, just strictly primary buffs) is fine i already stated that, i just think the level 3 buffs tip the table too far ahead, but interesting strategy there mumbly, definitely a little outside the box thinking on your behalf. That just means a shit load more spells to carry around though. I personally don't find too much fun in buffing people. Its not that hard to do and not particularly a challenge. keeping those healed and sheltered and free of poison (and until recently casting antifreeze). My job is fun and busy enough. I guess i just have a vision of a battle actually occuring with a force minus a ppu. I just don't like the current way of a fight happening or not depending on weather a ppu is logged on or not. Silly vision of me.

Glok
07-02-04, 01:27
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
The difference is I know what I'm doing, and what I'm talking about. The difference is, your ego is the size of Manhattan, and you only think you know what you are doing.

edit: QD, I have always respected your opinions, but lately you are getting more and more condescending. Saying 90% of us forumgoers are idiots is not a way to prove your point. Maybe address what I said in my post rather than taking that same attitude with me.

Psyco Groupie
07-02-04, 01:39
no comment *splutter*

Shadow Dancer
07-02-04, 01:49
Originally posted by Glok
The difference is, your ego is the size of Manhattan, and you only think you know what you are doing.

edit: QD, I have always respected your opinions, but lately you are getting more and more condescending. Saying 90% of us forumgoers are idiots is not a way to prove your point. Maybe address what I said in my post rather than taking that same attitude with me.

QD gets like that because of the stupid assumptions people make. QD plays and loves his ppu, you know damn well he doesn't want ppus removed from existence. So when you make a comment like that, what kind of reaction do you expect?

Glok
07-02-04, 01:55
A comment like what? That foreign cast shelter/deflector should be less effective and heals should be nerfed on the high end? WTF. How is that different from his stance that S/D should be self-cast only. It is merely a different solution to the same problem.

bounty
07-02-04, 01:58
I made this thread so that there could be civil discussion on a way of further balancing PvP, lets stop jumping all over eachothers backs, that only makes people read stuff completely irrelevant and takes focus off the topic.

Glok
07-02-04, 02:00
Sorry, bounty, but some people think their way is the only way. Just riles me up a bit is all.

Scikar
07-02-04, 02:11
Originally posted by Glok
The difference is, your ego is the size of Manhattan, and you only think you know what you are doing.

edit: QD, I have always respected your opinions, but lately you are getting more and more condescending. Saying 90% of us forumgoers are idiots is not a way to prove your point. Maybe address what I said in my post rather than taking that same attitude with me.


90% of this community are idiots though. Just look at the 'remove item drops entirely' poll - and PK made that as a joke. A lot of people who post here don't think about what they're posting, don't justify what they are trying to change, and for evidence provide a couple of little stories about one time they got killed.

Regarding removal of level 3 buffs, I don't think it's a good idea. Level 3 buffs don't confer anything unbalancing at all. They're the difference between RoF at 97% of cap and 100%, or a minor increase in damage absorption. If there's anything which needs changing, especially regarding foreign cast buffs, it's s/d. Making s/d self cast only would fix the majority of balance problems regarding ppus all in one step, without making the ppus themselves any more vulnerable. But, when the majority of the community cannot look ahead further than which GR they're going to camp for the next 5 minutes, and being unable to see the long term benefits of any suggested change, it's unlikely anything's going to happen.

Glok
07-02-04, 02:17
I think S/D should still be castable on others at less effectiveness than currently, it was reduced before, and clearly it wasn't enough. But the main problem is foreign cast heals, and even self cast heals. If the higher level heals were reduced in effectiveness, I bet almost all of the current 'need a PPU' mentality would be eradicated. That would even balance hybrids, to an extent. No more outhealing a CS.