View Full Version : Combat Hovertec - What's the point?
Seeing as we have Callash's sarcastic and insulting peace-offeing of reduced T-C on stealth now I decided to LoM my rifle spy so he could use one of the new vehicles.
The Combat Hovertec was the obvious choice as it is reasonable achievable and not as poo looking/handling as a chainbike.
You need 50 VHC and 45 H-C so I lost some TRA and a little FOR to get 40 H-C (heavy boost can top it up) and LoMed out a few million DEX to get the extra VHC.
I picked up some 20mm ammo and headed to TG to try it out.
What a let-down :(
The range is about 5 metres and it takes ages to kill anything with the (admittedly cool looking) pea-shooter. A Reaperspider took about 30 seconds to kill and managed to take 100+HLT off me and 10% off the bike because I had to sit so close to it. 2 shots in 1-2 seconds of RoG normally drops them with zero risk.
Then there's the ammo - with almost no TRA now you can carry about enough to kill one doomie assuming you and the bike can survive the fight (no healing while on the bike).
My combat rank was 18 while using it which seems about right.
So, who is supposed to use these? :
Monks - not possible
PEs - The combat trike is a lot better
Spies - see above
Tanks - not possible
I would dread to think what the chainbike is like and I doubt the other two are much better looking at the reqs so what is the point of these vehicles?
Also, why des the combat bike have higher reqs than the combat hovertech?
the higher your HC the better the damage. It's really a PEs craft, and it cuts up players/rhinos/turrets pretty well
Originally posted by Archeus
the higher your HC the better the damage. It's really a PEs craft, and it cuts up players/rhinos/turrets pretty well
Ah OK, that's a bit less bad then.
How does it compar to the trike though which seems a favourite for all those things?
Also - does the range improve at all? It was unspeakable.
I'd test on my PE but his already screwed setup from testing other stuff is now complemented by -20SL from exploring the Jail.
Nash_Brigham
04-02-04, 21:25
Originally posted by jernau
Ah OK, that's a bit less bad then.
How does it compar to the trike though which seems a favourite for all those things?
Also - does the range improve at all? It was unspeakable.
I'd test on my PE but his already screwed setup from testing other stuff is now complemented by -20SL from exploring the Jail. Not experienced witht eh combat hovertec myself. I have a psi monk, so using anythign combat related, as a vehicle anyways, is pretty much impossible for me. But anyways, the way I see it so far, cause I ahve read many posts about it, each combat vehicle so far, has a specific set of targets they are better at, and others they are not. PE's like that trike. I've seen missile shots with those, and honestly, they aren't as impressive. Now, I watched like a level 44 tank on my reveller 2.5 the other day, and slammin warbots with multiple 200 point shots. Talk about cuttin them to ribbons, one warbot didn't even have a chance to retaliate before it was falling down.
Well its fun to use. You get a crap combat rank of 14/xx on it and it takes ages to kill things but its fun. Although its got a nice RoF and you take down even warbots with it.
But i prefer the heavy scorpion trike. Takes down warbots in no time and its fast.
The rockets do like 3x300 dmg to a warbot and it shoots fast.
h-c pe with 50 hack = teh ultimate rare hunter. You dont have to worry about getting shocked, you can carry tons of stuff around as it doesnt slow down when youre overloaded.
I got about 150 h-c btw and the range is quite nice on both of the vehicles.
I enjoy my 81 HC and still being a PvPable PE. What I see wrong with the veh is that they are ment to be a profesion of their own. Like a PE can be Pistols/Rifles/HC/ME/Veh. I don't think veh should be taken that road. Being totaly dependant on OP fights to PvP as a truely effective veh is not as much fun as if they were just usable by more people. Would see them more.
Here's where all the HC/Melee PE's come and say " I don't have any trouble." But your guy's main skill of coice aint got to be split with the veh. Anyway, I hope ya see what I'm saying.
While removing the req alltogether may not be the way to go, just imagion what that would be like at the next OP fight.... ( the combat req should deffinately stay or at least more is optional/nessisary to be effective )
Clive tombstone
05-02-04, 00:43
Honestly I didnt know that HC effects VHC combat attack strength, thanks for the enlightenment (goes to lom out transport :D )
I've seen a tank driving the chainbike dealing 92 damage per shot to a Giant Raptor, and it fired about as fast as the jeep cannon.
It's fiendishly difficult to hit with an anti-vehicle launcher, and it's rather tougher than a regular hovertec. Even with its shit damage, it's certainly a PvP option.
Originally posted by jernau
Seeing as we have Callash's sarcastic and insulting peace-offeing of reduced T-C on stealth now I decided to LoM my rifle spy so he could use one of the new vehicles.
:( *sigh*
Originally posted by Callash
:( *sigh*
Sorry Callash but that's how I feel and I'm not alone.
I still think you are doing great work in other regards but the stealth thing really makes no sense.
Originally posted by jernau
Sorry Callash but that's how I feel and I'm not alone.
I still think you are doing great work in other regards but the stealth thing really makes no sense.
I'm betting you 50$ that, if you had my job, at some point of your decisions, people would say the same about you* :(
*Your work, that is
Originally posted by Callash
I'm betting you 50$ that, if you had my job, at some point of your decisions, people would say the same about you* :(
*Your work, that is Absolutely. It's impossible to please everyone. Nonetheless, perhaps you could keep this issue in the back of your mind for possible future patching. I was a happy Oblit user before the 30 second nerf and I used every second of it's previously lovely 90 seconds. People were complaining about stealth on PEs but practically nobody said a peep about spies using the Oblit. I think that is what has annoyed so many people. An item that found it's niche with certain players and which was not unbalancing the game in any way is suddenly nerfed by 33% for no apparent reason.
Ray
Originally posted by Callash
I'm betting you 50$ that, if you had my job, at some point of your decisions, people would say the same about you* :(
*Your work, that is
I work in IT - laymen without all the facts are always trying to second guess me. :(
I can't stop them and you can't stop me. :p At least in your case we aren't your boss so you can ignore us.
We still haven't had a good reason for the stealth nerfage. The original reason given was to make it harder for PEs when if anything the opposite is true (INT and T-C both now reduced). Then we were told it was to make the top levels more attractive but nerfing something doesn't make people want it more. If there is a good reason for it then let us know. As it is it makes as much sense as "badger badger badger".
Originally posted by jernau
We still haven't had a good reason for the stealth nerfage. The original reason given was to make it harder for PEs when if anything the opposite is true (INT and T-C both now reduced). Then we were told it was to make the top levels more attractive but nerfing something doesn't make people want it more. If there is a good reason for it then let us know. As it is it makes as much sense as "badger badger badger".
As I already stated in the Testserver Thread, I wanted to give combat spies a better reason to carry Oblit with them. If you're merely a scout, why do you need 90 seconds? Why won't 60 seconds and re-stealthing immediately afterwards do it for you? For combat spies, it is a different story. I play all classes, and lately, I have been paying a lot of attention to my Sniper Spy. I noticed that in mid-combat, I had absolutely NO reason to use Oblit, 45 seconds of stealthage was more than enough. So Oblit stayed in my Gogu. Forever and ever and ever... so last Patch, I decided that I should do something about it, especially since most other classes need at least two rares if they want to excel. So I cut down the Stealth Times from 10/22/45/90 to 10/20/30/60, and I felt good about it. The new Stealth Times are perfect (for my taste), you're either a bit short on time, or you risk losing a rare. I repeat the question above, if you just scout, why do you need 90 whopping seconds?
Originally posted by Callash
As I already stated in the Testserver Thread, I wanted to give combat spies a better reason to carry Oblit with them. If you're merely a scout, why do you need 90 seconds? Why won't 60 seconds and re-stealthing immediately afterwards do it for you? For combat spies, it is a different story. I play all classes, and lately, I have been paying a lot of attention to my Sniper Spy. I noticed that in mid-combat, I had absolutely NO reason to use Oblit, 45 seconds of stealthage was more than enough. So Oblit stayed in my Gogu. Forever and ever and ever... so last Patch, I decided that I should do something about it, especially since most other classes need at least two rares if they want to excel. So I cut down the Stealth Times from 10/22/45/90 to 10/20/30/60, and I felt good about it. The new Stealth Times are perfect (for my taste), you're either a bit short on time, or you risk losing a rare. I repeat the question above, if you just scout, why do you need 90 whopping seconds?
:wtf: Not using obliterator because stealth 3 was long enough? Am I the only one that is weirded out by this? I hadn't planned on using obliterator because of the extreme requirements.
120 dex? 8| :eek: O_o
Just me, it seems.
TBH, I didn't like to go over stealth 2 on my Spy/Druggie PE. Anything over that is simply to long. I have been successively able to scout using a stealth 1 (hide behind something when the stealth is going to wear off), so I think the Oblit should keep the extreme req's and have another sort of option (like stealth/come out on your choosing).
Shadow Dancer
05-02-04, 02:45
Yea, oblit should have kept it's time but given some other unique ability. Maybe like seeing other stealthers, or something.
I liked the Obliterator for two things mainly :
1) safety - I could use Oblibterator to ride out enough GR SI to be at least a bit combat effective or to recover belts from dangerous areas.
2) spying - like the class name says, some of us like to play as spies. We scout enemy OPs for our clan/faction. We sneak into hostile areas to see new stuff, buy special items from locational vendors, explore hostile areas our class normally would never see, etc.
I liked the S3 as it was because it lasted long enough for visible effects (poison, DB, para) to expire without having to use drugs and deal with the haze.
From the posts elsewhere I'd say a lot of people used the old Obliterator and loved it.
I can see the logic in trying to force us to carry 2 rares - spies and PEs do have it easy in that regard. However I won't ever use it now because it doesn't offer enough safety and advantage to risk a second rare whereas before I used it a lot.
To the scouting question - I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that it's only used to quickly see if clan x is in OP y then I could see that but what if you want to relay exactly who in clan x was there, what weapons they were carrying and so on then even Obliterator is now useless. This just encurages LE abuse and faction-chat spies IMO.
Keyol45743241
05-02-04, 02:52
Well, Jernau, spec to a rhino, make your stupid tankeh friend sit in the turret and you have the ultimate combat vehicle. It even has autoaim! :D Kinda.... :rolleyes: Unless you're dumb and don't move the thing when the Tankehs start aiming their ugly anti-V launchers at you, that is.
The only annoying thing I see is, that there are no values where you can see your efficiency in Stats. I'm not a stats freak myself, but every other weapon has it - so, why can't I see when I cap my Rhino aiming, freqency or damage? At the moment I have three Kamichips implanted (Pistol, Rifle and Heavy, a whopping -45 int in the end :D) for the extra weaponlore they give, but it's useless. Gimme a screen where I can see weather I can cap aiming or not.
And yes, I can understand Callashs motivation, if you think about it, he's right.
Originally posted by jernau
This just encurages LE abuse and faction-chat spies IMO.
LE abuse is something I have a big problem. I would be more than happy to see LE users lose their LE status in war zones. Or if not that, lose their ability to attack turrets. It's pretty lame to have to sit there watching an enemy Rifle spy nuke your turrets from beyond their range.
Faction spies can be avoided by not talking in faction chat and just using buddy/DM/clan.
Originally posted by Keiron
LE abuse is something I have a big problem. I would be more than happy to see LE users lose their LE status in war zones. Or if not that, lose their ability to attack turrets. It's pretty lame to have to sit there watching an enemy Rifle spy nuke your turrets from beyond their range.
Faction spies can be avoided by not talking in faction chat and just using buddy/DM/clan.
LEs - I agree. My point is that spying legitimately just got removed from the game.
Chat - Tell that to FA on Saturn.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by jernau
My point is that spying legitimately just got removed from the game.
Why?? How do 30 seconds less (still a whole goddamn minute :p lol) completely kill any form of spying?
I'm with Callash, I can spy on someone with stealth 1 (with a little effort and maybe "removing" anyone who sees me). Stealth 2 is more than enough to spy on someone. Spy 3 should be enough for you do damn near go afk while spying, never mind the Oblit.
Keyol45743241
05-02-04, 03:09
Besides, kneel instead of running around, and you have double the time being stealthed :wtf:... err.. four times, since running makes it last half as long, right?
Same goes with spells by the way... if you didn't know already :rolleyes::D
callash you have a strong point, however I think in regards to the main topic of this thread, several combat vehicles need to be fixed so that a wider variety of classes can use them. The reqs should be lowered so that you're not sacrificing your character to use it. and lastly, they should be more combat efficient, they should deal more damage, there should be more of a reason to use them than just for transportation reasons. With Grs now adays, vehicles are obsolete. Make them more combat efficient and I'm willing to bet you will see them more often in fights than not.
Originally posted by Callash
Why?? How do 30 seconds less (still a whole goddamn minute :p lol) completely kill any form of spying?
Because it can easily take 20 seconds to get into an OP unseen even with steath. That doesn't leave long to see stuff, type it into chat and get out. Before I could get 30-60 seconds of actual spying time amongst the enemy, now I get half that because the entry/exit overhead is fixed. 15 seconds is not a lot of time.
Any chance of responses to my points in the longer post?
btw - Thanks for trying to explain this decision. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean I don't appreciate what you do.
Originally posted by ServeX
several combat vehicles need to be fixed so that a wider variety of classes use them.
I do agree with that :)
Personally I feel that stealth 2 is often too long so I carry both
stealth 1 and 2 in my belt, and I can spy perfectly fine with
stealth 2, and use it to GR with into any faction HQ and go to
a "safe" area before stealth wears off, and this is 20 seconds. I
dont see how 60 seconds could not be enough to do a stupid
amount off stuff, and still, what do you need the extra 30
seconds for? Why not just restealth? If I had stealth 3 as well as
stealth 2 at my disposal without any changes in my setup I still
dont think Id carry a stealth 3 around...
Shadow Dancer
05-02-04, 03:13
I wish my apu could stealth, now that would be leet.
And regarding combat vehicles.. Even tho I have 100 base H-C I
never even considered getting vehicle use and use one of them.
That should say something about the effectiveness of the lower
level combat vecs...
Originally posted by ServeX
callash you have a strong point, however I think in regards to the main topic of this thread, several combat vehicles need to be fixed so that a wider variety of classes use them.
Agreed, I was testing some of them earlier with my tank. I think one major step would be to allow ALL 2nd seat gunners to aim for themselves. I mean, even with voice coms I was barely able to communicate where my driver should aim when I was using his heavy trike. Then there is the combat wheeler. I managed to take the driver and myself to 10 HP before I could take out a small-spiderbot.
Originally posted by jernau
Because it can easily take 20 seconds to get into an OP unseen even with steath. That doesn't leave long to see stuff, type it into chat and get out. Before I could get 30-60 seconds of actual spying time amongst the enemy, now I get half that because the entry/exit overhead is fixed. 15 seconds is not a lot of time.
No, it's not, but you can run out of the GR, hide near the OP, wait until your Stealth of 60 Seconds expires, immediately re-stealth, and go in, having like 50 seconds to your disposal, right? It does require a little more thought and skill, I'll admit, but I still cannot see how it became impossible...
You won't have lost enough SI in 60 seconds to re-stealth.
De-stealthing inside or too close to the OP tends to be bad for your health. IME it takes about 10-20 seconds to get into a defended OP and the same again to get out. 10 is if you are very lucky.
Impossible - no, but as it was you could choose to use S3 and make it harder or gimp/risk a bit Obliterator more and be rewarded with an easier life. Now you are forced to risk more (the gimpage is gone) to do it the hard way.
The other points?
Originally posted by jernau
You won't have lost enough SI in 60 seconds to re-stealth.
De-stealthing inside or too close to the OP tends to be bad for your health. IME it takes about 10-20 seconds to get into a defended OP and the same again to get out. 10 is if you are very lucky.
Impossible - no, but as it was you could choose to use S3 and make it harder or gimp/risk a bit Obliterator more and be rewarded with an easier life. Now you are forced to risk more (the gimpage is gone) to do it the hard way.
The other points?
You will definately have regained enough SI to use a stealth 1 or
2, which is all you need to wait up the rest of the SI. And I still
dont get it, I spy inside defended OPs with stealth 2, and it has
20 second duration, according to you this is impossible o_O
Originally posted by Rade
You will definately have regained enough SI to use a stealth 1 or
2, which is all you need to wait up the rest of the SI. And I still
dont get it, I spy inside defended OPs with stealth 2, and it has
20 second duration, according to you this is impossible o_O
I'm not putting all 4 stealth tools in my QB - that's ridiculous.
No, just a lot harder. Specialisation deserves rewards don't you think? I also doubt you are very useful using Stealth 2 unless everyone you are relaying to is on TS.
Originally posted by jernau
I'm not putting all 4 stealth tools in my QB - that's ridiculous.
No, just a lot harder. Specialisation deserves rewards don't you think? I also doubt you are very useful using Stealth 2 unless everyone you are relaying to is on TS.
Im not saying that either, but you should have at least one short
duration one for the combat situations when youre not actually
fleeing but just doing a quick relocation, especially as a spy. And
you dont need to keep it in your QB, have it in your inventory and
swap it to your QB when you have SI if you really dont want to
have 2 stealth tools in the QB.
**edit: Just fyi, I dont really see this as a needed nerf, but I dont
see the big deal about it either. I proposed something similar in
alot of threads but I wanted stealth durations cut even more, to
something like 8/16/32/48. That way all tools would have more
uses and it would be a big deal to spec up to the next level. Now
however the int reqs were raised so this isnt really necesary
anymore.
Originally posted by jernau
The other points?
Like the one where you do not have enough time to let poison etc. run out? Well, maybe I do want you to carry antidrugs :p For a Stealther, they are worth their value in gold anyway, at least that's my experience.
EDIT: besides, if you value your time so much, getting those babies is much faster than letting the poison run out, then healing up again, anyway.
@Rade - I normally have S2 or S3 in QB. I used to swap in Obliterator when I needed it. I rarely had 2 tools there.
@Callash - Yeah, like that one.
Did you consider that an unfair advantage then or just something that didn't fit with or wasn't needed in your playstyle. I hate to say it but it sounds like this decision was largely based on the experience of one player.
I can understand why you don't ask everyone's opinions for every change but I know that you do talk and listen to some players on a lot of issues. Did you recieve a lot of feedback in suport of this change before you made it? I've not seen (m)any Obliterator/S3 using spies who can understand it or saw it coming.
One point to clarify - this isn't only about the Obliterator, the more commonly used S3 also got hit hard.
•Super|\|ova•
05-02-04, 04:04
Originally posted by jernau
So, who is supposed to use these? :
Monks - not possible
PEs - The combat trike is a lot better
Spies - see above
Tanks - not possible
I'm a tank and I drive combat hovertec and I'm not gimped a bit. And I can take warbots down pretty fast with it.
Originally posted by jernau
Did you consider that an unfair advantage then or just something that didn't fit with or wasn't needed in your playstyle. I hate to say it but it sounds like this decision was largely based on the experience of one player.
I hate to sait it but your points sound like they are largely based on your own playstyle and the fact that you will have to modify them :p
I play like a regular player. I am not a solo player, I play in clans like most of you do. I did notice that whoever I asked inside my clan(s) or the other players I asked, that rarely one of them used the Obliterator. It was always like "Yeah right, like I am gonna risk dropping a rare Item when a storebought one is all I need". That reassured me, since I felt the same way. So I decided to bring a real motivation to use Obliterator: The fact that a Stealth 3 simply wouldn't cut all your desires. Plus I always felt that Stealthing was a little TOO no-skill for my taste, that's when I reduced the Obliterator too, to make all spying still possible, but a little more ... interesting :p
At least admit that it is still perfectly possible to spy on your enemy, despite the fact that it got a little harder, hmkay? ;) I think having more free points in your dex is more than enough as a tradeoff.
Originally posted by Callash
As I already stated in the Testserver Thread, I wanted to give combat spies a better reason to carry Oblit with them...I noticed that in mid-combat, I had absolutely NO reason to use Oblit, 45 seconds of stealthage was more than enoughMy spy carries the Oblit, stealth 2, and stealth3 with him. When in the middle of a fight, I tend to use the lower stealths because the oblit does last too long. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that.
However, I will add that I did often use the Oblit because it gives me the luxury of choosing when I want to be seen. I would often position myself behind someone and then use a drug to unstealth exactly at the right time. I use about 8-10 drugs to remove stealth during a typical OP fight. Perhaps this is a combat style that you simply never tried but I assure you it is very effective. Spy vs. spy combat is all about who gets the first 2-3 hits in.
Originally posted by Callash
If you're merely a scout, why do you need 90 seconds? Why won't 60 seconds and re-stealthing immediately afterwards do it for you?...I repeat the question above, if you just scout, why do you need 90 whopping seconds?If it were up to me, the Oblit would be increased to 120 seconds. For a true scout, there is no such thing as long enough. I don't even know where to begin, there are so many uses for a long period of stealth. Essentially, you need time to stealth behind a hill, far from the OP so that the flash of stealthing does not give you away. You need to walk towards the OP, usually passing some mobs. You need as much time as possible to accomplish your task (counting the enemy, visiting a vendor, noting turret placements, etc.). And then you need to make it all the way back out to your original stealthing location. Try to do that with 60 seconds.
No offense Callash, but I simply don't think you've played your spy much as the member of a clan responsible for serious scouting. If you had, you would know without having to ask how valuable every second of stealth is.
Restealthing is pointless for many reasons. Mobs, turrets, and soulclusters will target you the moment you unstealth. Restealthing means that you cannot heal yourself but the mobs/turrets/SCs will still have a target lock on you. But the main reason you don't want to restealth is because your name pops up on local and the entire goal of spying is compromised.
(btw, I think we need to eliminate local lists from this game. You should have to look around and be careful. Someone should be able to hide right behind a wall and ambush you as you walk in just like they can in any other FPS. This would entail much more skill. Why the hell do we all have built in radar systems to announce enemies?)
Originally posted by RayBob
Restealthing is pointless for many reasons. Mobs, turrets, and soulclusters will target you the moment you unstealth. Restealthing means that you cannot heal yourself but the mobs/turrets/SCs will still have a target lock on you. But the main reason you don't want to restealth is because your name pops up on local and the entire goal of spying is compromised.
Sure, all this will happen, if you unstealth right in the middle of your enemies. You will have to do some time management, run in, look around, and run out of the OP again. I found the Adrenalin that's pumping if you actually risk getting caught much more rewarding than giving detailed info about every little Runner inside the OP to your Clanmates on TS or Clanchat and whistling while you walk out of the OP again.
Originally posted by Callash
I hate to sait it but your points sound like they are largely based on your own playstyle and the fact that you will have to modify them :p
Well all I can say is I've seen and heard enough complaints from others who think the same. The only people who seem happy with it are those who didn't use it before and won't use it now - most aren't even spies.
What you are saying then is :
1) You want spies to risk a rare
2) You wanted stealthers to be more reliant on drugs
3) You wanted to make Obliterator more attractive over S3
4) You thought stealth-spying was too easy
Is that right? (NB : these reasons were not given before, just the PE nonsense)
If so :
I'm not sure what is gained from 1 and 2 other than hurting a class that didn't need hurting.
Obliterator is now even less likely to be used because it does less than it did before.
I guess I have to agree with 4 to some extent but it took a lot of sacrifices to get that easy of use. Now you've removed both the gains and the losses though so the net gain is zero.
/edit - yes the points are nice to have back though I've got to LoM them all back out of VHC now :(.
Originally posted by RayBob
But the main reason you don't want to restealth is because your name pops up on local and the entire goal of spying is compromised.
This is my main problem with the nerf to stealth times. 60s usally does not give enough time to get outside of the local list of your enemy. And once you show up on it the surprise and advantage of spying is wasted. Problem with getting rid of the local list would make the obli almost usless other then avoiding mobs/escaping.
Callash
major Hijack in progress
Wait what is the int req on combat hover, didnt think a tank could get there without drugs.
Sorry just looked it said int 20 that is the cap for tank but it has been along time since i played one isnt ther a -3 int on a very important implant for tanks. I just recall my capped tank had 17 int all the time.
Originally posted by Keiron
Or if not that, lose their ability to attack turrets. It's pretty lame to have to sit there watching an enemy Rifle spy nuke your turrets from beyond their range.
Eh? Recently changed to be possible? I've not once been able to damage some SOB turret that's taken shots at me. I take shots at them sometimes because they KOS me, but I've yet to ever actually do damage to them.
So........? :confused: Did I read that right? LE killing your turrets? :confused:
Disturbed021
05-02-04, 09:22
Originally posted by Biznatchy
Callash
major Hijack in progress
Wait what is the int req on combat hover, didnt think a tank could get there without drugs.
Sorry just looked it said int 20 that is the cap for tank but it has been along time since i played one isnt ther a -3 int on a very important implant for tanks. I just recall my capped tank had 17 int all the time.
Depends on what imps you use. The zerk chips are the only ones that give -int afaik, so you prolly had a zerk 3 in.
•Super|\|ova•
05-02-04, 14:05
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Depends on what imps you use. The zerk chips are the only ones that give -int afaik, so you prolly had a zerk 3 in.
Yup. I have no zerks. MOVEON, PP epic chip, Marine and a Herc atm.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I wish my apu could stealth, now that would be leet.
Sure, use magic, then stealth... wait a moment, the magic effect still visible...What do you mean by "walking magical effect?" :D
So.. Didnt know that H-C affected how much damage you do with a vehicle. And it seems like WEP affects the aiming too. Can anyone definately confirm that WEP affects aiming?
How much H-C and WEP would I need to be reasonably effective with, lets say, the heavy assault scorpion trike? I mean as the driver if theres any difference between the weapons... Would like 120 H-C and 100 WEP be enough?
•Super|\|ova•
05-02-04, 16:31
Originally posted by [VP]Orion
So.. Didnt know that H-C affected how much damage you do with a vehicle. And it seems like WEP affects the aiming too. Can anyone definately confirm that WEP affects aiming?
How much H-C and WEP would I need to be reasonably effective with, lets say, the heavy assault scorpion trike? I mean as the driver if theres any difference between the weapons... Would like 120 H-C and 100 WEP be enough?
Well, lets say that fuck me if you needed it more :lol:
Originally posted by [VP]Orion
So.. Didnt know that H-C affected how much damage you do with a vehicle. And it seems like WEP affects the aiming too. Can anyone definately confirm that WEP affects aiming?
How much H-C and WEP would I need to be reasonably effective with, lets say, the heavy assault scorpion trike? I mean as the driver if theres any difference between the weapons... Would like 120 H-C and 100 WEP be enough?
SKill guide (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477)
Vehicle weapons counts as H-C weapons. Dont know what TL
and quality they are tho. If I were KK I would have made the TL
equal to the vehicle and the quality 120%, seems easiest, if so
you should be able to test with a H-C weapon of around the
same TL to see if you can the damage on the vehicle.
If you're merely a scout, why do you need 90 seconds? Why won't 60 seconds and re-stealthing immediately afterwards do it for you?
Because stealth does not have a Distract Mind function. If I de-stealth in the middle of a herd of DoY bots, that's it, game over. I can't restealth to be unseen because once mobs "see" you they always see you unless you zone or run far enough away, and even then I've seen some very persistent Spiderbots and Warbots.
Add a Distract Mind function to stealth, or make it work on mobs the same as it does on players.
KramerTheWeird
06-02-04, 01:29
To get anything out of vehicles you have to dedicate to capping them like weapons. Meeting the 76 h-c req for trikes and fully dedicating yourself to h-c is a huge huge difference. I went melee and I know for a fact I am limiting my vehicle damage ability, especially with no weapon lore. Weapon lore is even more important for h-c as a PE than it is for rifles, because you can only expect to get 140ish h-c fully dedicated, or 149 (no buffs) without any transport points at all which is suicidal and won't allow you to carry anything but armor and a few packs of vehicle ammo. Around 144 H-C and 110 WEP I can cap damage on a tangent speed gun, a TL 75 weapon at 120% damage. Aiming was 191% and rate of fire was 305/min. Even with no psi use or tradeskills in INT I can get a max of 136 weaponlore using a h-c setup. So in order to reach capped levels of higher end vehicles you must sacrifice a lot. I have compromised with just 133 h-c, to give me enough points to be able to cap melee weapons that I drug to, using the drug's m-c bonuses as well. When I cast hc1 on myself I notice a difference in aiming and damage.
Originally posted by IceStorm
Because stealth does not have a Distract Mind function.
Gets worse. Some mobs can see through stealth. Like all the guards in Jailhouse (they even follow you).
Keyol45743241
06-02-04, 20:06
Originally posted by Archeus
Gets worse. Some mobs can see through stealth. Like all the guards in Jailhouse (they even follow you). But that makes sense, as it is supposed to be a safe haven for those with bad SL, not a ganking spot for Stealthers who feast upon haples victims relaxing there, looting 5+ items.
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