View Full Version : Patch 196 Discussion
Patch Notes (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=452&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
You dont sound too sure on the para reducement, are you sure that it is reduced ?
Thanks for giving me back a use for my two accounts... :)
"- Lowered stealth T-C reqs to 80/90/95/100 TC."
*runs off to his apt searching for his obliterator*
SEX!
Thanatos, I think you forgot to mention the included TH zone. :p
That's of course assuming it's one and the same patch as on test.
Any imput in the current rare weapons' strenght would be welcome Thanatos.. if you know it.
I'm not exactly opposed to it, but shouldnt be major changes like those be properly tested first rather than doing it randomly?
I ask because in none of the patch notes are these changes listed, which is extremely annoying.
-Sleawer
- Parashock effects should really be reduced now
Yea sure. :rolleyes:
Is there another point of putting back the AGI malus than to prevent monks to drive properly ? Or do someone earn money for each lompill bought for nothing ?
EDIT: ATH malus definitely had some meaning. A monk should be fast or resistant. But what the point of AGI malus in term of gameplay ?
QuantumDelta
03-02-04, 15:42
Originally posted by J. Folsom
Thanatos, I think you forgot to mention the included TH zone. :p
That's of course assuming it's one and the same patch as on test. What's this? :)
Also, are you including a second slot for Venus?
As well, are the rare random boosts "fixed"?
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
What's this? :) I think it's the redecoration of the Faction office, it's not an actual new zone :p
You know, so it also uses the new texture instead of the old one.
I haven't actually checked it out though, I'm just basing it off of one of CoDi's posts.
Mighty Max
03-02-04, 15:45
That will be some work to patch ItemGFX again :D good you choosed the week i have some time in :p
anyways, nice to see that those issues got addressed that fast.
QuantumDelta
03-02-04, 15:46
Originally posted by J. Folsom
I think it's the redecoration of the Faction office, it's not an actual new zone :p
You know, so it also uses the new texture instead of the old one.
I haven't actually checked it out though, I'm just basing it off of one of CoDi's posts. And I thought they mighta finally made use of that door :p
Thanks for the heads up Mr. Folsom :D
MjukisDjur
03-02-04, 15:47
Reduced slasher? I havent had time to test it with the last patch but if its back to its original state... :(
Short range spys need all the love they can get. Ok, everyone except Divide then...
By the way good job lowering the TC req's for Stealth activators, this is a good change IMO. The int req's should stay the way they are now to prevent the abuse from PE's, but at same time allows them to access the stealth 1 (I agree that PE's should keep it) and even frees some dex points on it. Not sure about the dex requirements... in my opinion the dex req for obliterator might be too high, but dont really have any test done or something... just the feeling.
Overall good work and good patch (with what it's listed on it atm that's it).
Lord Mansion
03-02-04, 15:53
Originally posted by Maarten
Thanks for giving me back a use for my two accounts... :)
Indeed.
Nice patch.
lowerd tc on stealth, woot.. helps my droner ^^
shodanjr_gr
03-02-04, 15:55
Hm...nice change on the monkey PAs, tehy needed that.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Also, are you including a second slot for Venus?
That's something highly expected by the players on Venus.
I guess you'll see many "noobs" tonight on the server :D
Originally posted by Sleawer
Any imput in the current rare weapons' strenght would be welcome Thanatos.. if you know it.
I'm not exactly opposed to it, but shouldnt be major changes like those be properly tested first rather than doing it randomly?
I ask because in none of the patch notes are these changes listed, which is extremely annoying.
seconded.
also, what about the spider/hound/most other bots' speed, range and RoF increase? you replaced their batteries with atomic power generators by accident, or did you do it to us on purpose?
QuantumDelta
03-02-04, 15:56
Originally posted by Jerto
That's something highly expected by the players on Venus.
I guess you'll see many "noobs" tonight on the server :D :p
Shame my account isn't active, it'd be nice to actually have someone to level my PPU with :p
Load_HeavyLoad
03-02-04, 16:01
woo no my spy can use stealth 3 :)
exsqueeze me....
is Iorghe's guard script gonna be put in this time ? Seems it was missed out last patch after I tested the punching malarkey with him and killed him 3 times :D
stupid 60 seconds posting rule, thats about 10 times today already .....
So has someone tested the parashock yet?
parashock was really fixet, atleast in test server, btw, developers got the BD guard script working what we were testing at test server?
- When "using" your own backpack, its contents will be automatically transfered into your inventory.
Does this mean that when u have SI, u use ur backpack which contains LOADS, that u drop the stuff u have in way overload?
shodanjr_gr
03-02-04, 16:24
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
stupid 60 seconds posting rule, thats about 10 times today already .....
What is it Fenix? Cant u spam fast enough ??:P:P:P:P:P:P:P
AceBoonCoon
03-02-04, 16:26
I really think the req's for APU spells and PPU spells i just retarded. But i know im not gonna get them lowered, nice patch. I think you guys should add a spell that allows APU monks to leech life from another player, u know like Soul Reaver, how he takes life ? that would good.
patch is now up for download BTW.
darkservent
03-02-04, 16:32
Excellent hotfix. Great work on the stealths But u should seriously consider only doing the +5 int on the first 2 stealths and then put a class requirement on the stealth 3 and oblit with there old int req. If u were to do that then the stealths would be completly balanced. I myself am not happy abt the lowerin og the times though but i hope u guys at KK can compromise or compensate with sumthin else. I dunno ill just leave it up to u lot.
Originally posted by zonk
Does this mean that when u have SI, u use ur backpack which contains LOADS, that u drop the stuff u have in way overload?
You have >200 free load?? :eek:
Stupid school server, cant see the patch notes.
@ QD, ill help level your PPU on Saturn :p
I have a n00b rifle spy.
Originally posted by zonk
Does this mean that when u have SI, u use ur backpack which contains LOADS, that u drop the stuff u have in way overload?
You cant carry around so much stuff that this might happen. You need -200 freeload before you start dropping stuff.
Dribble Joy
03-02-04, 16:54
Did they fix the rare dmg boosts? I hope so.
Could anyone be kind enough to please post the patch notes on this thread?
A lot of people cannot see neocron.com in the day due to work/college/school firewall software :(
darkservent
03-02-04, 17:08
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Did they fix the rare dmg boosts? I hope so.
wot rare dmg boost??????:eek: :eek:
Originally posted by evs
Could anyone be kind enough to please post the patch notes on this thread?
A lot of people cannot see neocron.com in the day due to work/college/school firewall software :(
Read on to learn about the changes that come with the retail patch #196
- Lowered stealth T-C reqs to 80/90/95/100 TC.
- Changed monk PA penalty from -15/20/25/30 (PA1/2/3/4) Athletics to -10/15/20/25 Agility.
- Removed T-C requirement from Speedgatlin.
- Reduced Slasher damage.
- Removed "Strange Book" since the drop is broken.
- There may be more than one instance of the Client.exe again. If a second client.exe is launched, a warning box will be displayed.
- Parashock effects should really be reduced now.
- When "using" your own backpack, its contents will be automatically transfered into your inventory.
- Increased OZ8 guards combat strength.
- Team XP/Money wasn't properly distributed when the Droner did the kill and was not within range of the team, but his drone was. This is fixed now.
^^ i know how u feel at work i cant read them either. so here u go.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
Did they fix the rare dmg boosts? I hope so.
Haha, i just went "WTF A RARE DB SPELL OMFG!" before i realized what you ment.
:D
Dribble Joy
03-02-04, 17:21
Originally posted by darkservent
wot rare dmg boost??????:eek: :eek:
Yeah, most of the rares accidentaly got a big boost in dmg, CS got like a 20% dmg increase.
Which kinda negated the intended dmg boosts to the judge, slasher, exec, etc.
DigestiveBiscui
03-02-04, 17:29
i hope the dmg boost on rares that was not meant to happen was fixed...i find that the biggest problem atm
Cryotchekk
03-02-04, 17:54
can sum1 tell me where to dl it
(i really should book mark this...)
Nice patch. Tho a shame that the PSI-subskill-points still haven't been released! Higher apu/ppu requirements means lomming in a lot of cases. Plz fix this KK!
ftp://ftp.neocron.com/retailpatches
The newest one should be cp000196.pat (ftp://ftp.neocron.com/retailpatches/cp000196.pat)
man im running for home now hehe.
i really want to find out if they fixed the rare weapon boost thing because otherwise im going to feel a bit inadequate:p .
Anyone tested the blue glue spells out yet? Got it really nerfed or just slightly reduced?
When does this come in? Atm on Saturn we still only need Patch 195 and the Patcher page doesn't have #196 for download.
Originally posted by Organics
When does this come in? Atm on Saturn we still only need Patch 195 and the Patcher page doesn't have #196 for download.
rofl surely not, i'l be home in 20 minutes
Originally posted by DigestiveBiscui
i hope the dmg boost on rares that was not meant to happen was fixed...i find that the biggest problem atm
haha a capped malediction was taking 806 off the MC5 commander last night, that's at least a 15% bonus over the old stats I think. That was with damage boost :p
errr it is on their ftp
the site that the patches are on but it just isnt listed on the patch list yet hehe
Originally posted by stigmata
rofl surely not, i'l be home in 20 minutes
Truth :)
I don't know if you need it to play yet, checking now.... ahh yeah it starts downloading, but it says #195 required and it's not on the patcher page :D
Oh well, it's on the ftp so that'll do :) Plus the Launcher does actually start downloading it, it's like 500kb or so I think.
:)
(edit: not 5mb, 500k god where's my brain this afternoon. Dam hangover :D)
enigma_b17
03-02-04, 20:49
for the love of god stop nerfing holy para and just get rid of it and replace it with something nice plz
I hope the CS damage boost stays. It means we can fix Lib aiming AND give its 28% burst bonus back without overpowering it.
nothing done to the still overpowered guards... how many months till it's fixed?
Shadow Dancer
03-02-04, 22:11
Originally posted by Scikar
I hope the CS damage boost stays. It means we can fix Lib aiming AND give its 28% burst bonus back without overpowering it.
Right, because the game is only about lib pes vs cs tanks right?
o_O
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Right, because the game is only about lib pes vs cs tanks right?
yes, thats correct......
:p
anyway, if the dmg boost stays, lib needs a boost. but then APUs and spies would need a defense boost to be competitive, and then people will whine, and then... and then....
just nerf the CS again :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Right, because the game is only about lib pes vs cs tanks right?
o_O
Are all the rifles suddenly underpowered? No, Ray pistols and rifles were overpowered before, now they are even, Slasher was boosted, Healing Light was boosted, Executioner boosted, HL was already very powerful and still is. Shame it's impossible to judge its balance when the damage it deals is so random. Fire Apoc and other fire spells still haven't got the boosts they need, but apart from that I can't see any problems.
Besides, it means people are actually dying now, rather than people with 25% HP still being able to run across a zone and escape from anything except HL pre-patch.
QuantumDelta
03-02-04, 23:03
Rifles that weren't/aren't underpowered;
RoG.
PE.
End of list o_O
edit for below;
Good.
after 195 it seemed that fire apoc was hitting a lil harder
Originally posted by SorkZmok
You cant carry around so much stuff that this might happen. You need -200 freeload before you start dropping stuff.
I was transferring 200+ rareparts to my spy who could easily carry them. I dropped about 20 and lost em.
It sucked.
Shadow Dancer
03-02-04, 23:49
Originally posted by joran420
after 195 it seemed that fire apoc was hitting a lil harder
um no, pls don't spread rumors. I tried it, and it's still a piece of crap. :(
Oddly enough, after patch 195 i'ts been taking me 9-13 Hls to kill tanks.
Wtf is up with that?
anyone confirm the super glue nerf? (tho i'd rather see it removed)
and anyone know if gats/cannons got their "unintentional" boosts removed yet?
Shadow Dancer
04-02-04, 00:04
Originally posted by mdares
anyone confirm the super glue nerf? (tho i'd rather see it removed)
and anyone know if gats/cannons got their "unintentional" boosts removed yet?
YES i can confirm super glue nerf.
Not only that, but I was hit by holy para and it's weaker than it ever was.
weeeeeeeeeee :p
Still want it gone though. :angel:
shodanjr_gr
04-02-04, 00:47
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Rifles that weren't/aren't underpowered;
RoG.
PE.
End of list o_O
edit for below;
Good.
I would add disruptor to that list. Its quite good actually.
Mr Friendly
04-02-04, 01:06
how come i cant go to the neocron ftp site?....
(im goin to "ftp.neocron.com")
Originally posted by John.nl
I was transferring 200+ rareparts to my spy who could easily carry them. I dropped about 20 and lost em.
It sucked.
now as you all know, im not the type to call someone a liar, but john your talking bullshit
each tech part weighs 0.3 so 200 x 0.3 = 60
so unless you were already 141 overloaded it is simply not possible.
unless you walk around with 200 tech parts and a shit load of chems
when people bullshit it makes the devs not want to read these threads
Mr Friendly
04-02-04, 01:38
anyone know why i cant get to the ftp site?
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
I would add disruptor to that list. Its quite good actually.
Well I was figuring this isn't really the place to discuss it. But Healing Light apparently does as much damage as RoG now, I can't confirm that though. SH got a boost, maybe still not enough but I do know plenty spies who swear by it. FL does only a little less damage than CS (prepatch CS anyway), and has a larger clip than it. Disruptor does less damage than FL, though it does have a larger clip. I think the biggest problem with FL and Disruptor is not the rifles themselves, but the fact that spies have to gimp themselves, by not using Inq armor, in order to cap RoF on them. Also bear in mind Lupus posted that 90% of rares have been boosted, this is probably an exaggeration, but I don't know which rares have been boosted, it's possible FL and Disruptor were boosted too. Redeemer I can't judge.
Pistol-wise, Lib has always been good, now it can have its aiming fixed and burst bonus returned and not be overpowered, Judge is now good, Beam of Hell is now good, RoLH has always been good, Executioner was boosted (probably not enough though :p).
Fire Apoc still needs boosting, as do all fire spells (didn't I mention that before? :p), Malediction, Doom Beamer and Moon Striker could use some boosting, Doom Beamer doubly so, Wyatt sucks as always, melee still needs more damage.
I think that covers everything. :)
Shadow Dancer
04-02-04, 02:09
The rare barrels, and POISON!
omg yea Rade, poison... would be too hard to make poison being as fast as devourer poison stacks are?
Originally posted by stigmata
so unless you were already 141 overloaded it is simply not possible.
The number of items you can carry is also limited. So that was possibly the reason for the items dropping to the ground. But that doesn't really belong in this thread...
Ah yeah, rare barrels. They need more range. Poison I'm deliberately avoiding. :p I do think APU poison can be boosted without any balance problems, including Pestilence. But for Dev, there's so many conflicting opinions, and the fact that I don't actually have one myself, that I can't really comment.
Originally posted by stigmata
now as you all know, im not the type to call someone a liar, but john your talking bullshit
each tech part weighs 0.3 so 200 x 0.3 = 60
so unless you were already 141 overloaded it is simply not possible.
unless you walk around with 200 tech parts and a shit load of chems
when people bullshit it makes the devs not want to read these threads
Not only do you have a weight limit but you also have a limit on the number of individual items you can carry, he simply exceeded that number. I get it all the time when carrying large numbers of blueprints, I'd have thought you'd have known such things being a longterm forumite and all, and not to be totally off topic im glad they got round to re-introducing the ability to run two clients at once, i was actually contemplating building a second pc with all my spare parts. :)
QuantumDelta
04-02-04, 02:55
Poison should be boosted to approximately 60% of the other weaponry (Beam vs Beam etc).
Why?
Because if it were boosted any higher, Shelter would need to absorb Poison, and, of course, that would make Dev useless.
Shadow Dancer
04-02-04, 03:03
Pestilence technically doesn't need much of a damage boost, it needs to be boosted in some other way. Rare barrels most of the time hit a person once because they can run out of the way very fast and easily. I rarely ever get hit more than once by the same rare barrel.
So, when you take lots of mana, shitty range, slow rof, and one stack of 21 second poison. Well you can see why it's about as deadly as a lettuce.
QuantumDelta
04-02-04, 03:15
107 Holy thunderstorm
Mana 144
Range 44
RoF 35
Damage 2101-7274 enr
108 Holy firestorm
Mana 145
Range 44
RoF 35
Damage 708-2452 fir burn 624x5
110 Holy pestilence
Mana 147
Range 44
RoF 35
Damage 167-578 psn poison 376x7
Actually, that's why it's as deadly as a lettuce.
Shadow Dancer
04-02-04, 03:19
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
107 Holy thunderstorm
Mana 144
Range 44
RoF 35
Damage 2101-7274 enr
O_o
That can't be right, that spell sux in pvp.
Why does it say so much damage???
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
110 Holy pestilence
Mana 147
Range 44
RoF 35
Damage 167-578 psn poison 376x7
Actually, that's why it's as deadly as a lettuce.
grrr.
IMO their are several ways to improve it.
1.Increase the rof significantly.
2.Increase the range significantly.
3.Make the damage ALOT more front loaded, since it's a TL 110 poison rare BARREL!!! ffs
4.Make it a sanctum. :D
I prefer #4, but we all know that won't happen so I prefer #3 I guess.
Just noticed now I called Rade the wrong person lol.
What's that of having the same avatars again?
The idea of having a weapon and damage type with crappy damage, the longest ass DoT in the game and adding anti-drugs up to it.... well how in earth is that usefull?
Maybe if the enemy doesnt have anti drugs, has zero poison resists... if doesnt heal to neutralize the long poison with heal ticks.. if... if... if... bah.
No wonder why all monks use HL.
/edit: I add a #5: make the DoT faster, as FA or Dev poison.
Holy Thunderstorm sucks because it pushes you. You don't even need to run out of the barrel, it does all the work for you.
true ; for holy thunderstorm to kill u (or any energy barrel for that matter) theres a push effect and like in 2 ticks ur outta the range of the barrel.
so still nothing on fixing the "unintentional" boosts eh?
oh yeah y did u change to rade's ava and sig sd? i liked ur old monk lvling int quote better :p
Originally posted by Scikar
Well I was figuring this isn't really the place to discuss it. But Healing Light apparently does as much damage as RoG now, I can't confirm that though. SH got a boost, maybe still not enough but I do know plenty spies who swear by it. FL does only a little less damage than CS (prepatch CS anyway), and has a larger clip than it. Disruptor does less damage than FL, though it does have a larger clip. I think the biggest problem with FL and Disruptor is not the rifles themselves, but the fact that spies have to gimp themselves, by not using Inq armor, in order to cap RoF on them. Also bear in mind Lupus posted that 90% of rares have been boosted, this is probably an exaggeration, but I don't know which rares have been boosted, it's possible FL and Disruptor were boosted too. Redeemer I can't judge.
Healing Light is fine now i think.
Disruptor got no boost. For a TL 115 rifle its damage is shit. Its just got a nice aiming.
Didnt test FL yet but its got such a fucked up aiming, increased damage wouldnt help shit.
But you dont to gimp yourself to use em actually. Inqui1 set, heavy enr belt, pa3, 197 r-c, 121 dex. o_O
Well lets just hope for Lupus changes, maybe they are fine then.
QuantumDelta
04-02-04, 04:44
He (.....and several others o_O) did that to me at one point...there were like 6 or 7 QDs wandering around the forum ... guhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
*dies*
Yea I remember that QD lol.
I see we are using the same setup in spies Brainiac... well almost the same ;)
It's damn fun.
Originally posted by SorkZmok
But you dont to gimp yourself to use em actually. Inqui1 set, heavy enr belt, pa3, 197 r-c, 121 dex. o_O
Well lets just hope for Lupus changes, maybe they are fine then.
INQ means 49 STR : MOVEON, STR 2 spine and Bez 2.
That's -2 DEX and only 2 brain slots left.
SA + SF + PA3 = 17 so you get 115 DEX at cap (just enough). You need two drugs to activate your PA though.
To use Disruptor you need 89 T-C. You get 10 from imps leaving 79. That leaves you a max of 147R-C plus 25 from imps = 172.
You have no agility at all in that setup.
You have stealth 1 only.
You have no recyc and you can't drive anything.
At 172 R-C amd 115DEX your RoF on a Disruptor is shite.
You might cap damage if you go 100WEP in INT but a RoG would give better results.
If you are only going to use a RoG - roll a PE amd get better defences.
Am I missing something?
lower the str requirments on inq 1 :)
@Jernau: It's called Beast. ;)
Originally posted by Nivag
Not only do you have a weight limit but you also have a limit on the number of individual items you can carry, he simply exceeded that number. I get it all the time when carrying large numbers of blueprints, I'd have thought you'd have known such things being a longterm forumite and all, and not to be totally off topic im glad they got round to re-introducing the ability to run two clients at once, i was actually contemplating building a second pc with all my spare parts. :)
Stigmata, I think you owe me an apology.
I have a similar setup that Brainiac, I use beast he prolly uses a drug more or different implants... I have 191 RC, 100 TC, 70 AGL and 115 dex self-buffed and without beast (with beast I get 95 agl, but dont use it always)... damn if obliterator had dex 115 req I could use it, atm I use stealth 3 (can use it unbuffed, I hate to rely in buffs to use stealth).
IMO inq/dur1 armors should be lowered to 46 str... c'mon what would it harm? It would only allow spies to do the same but without drugs, or would free one implant slot (zerk2).
I mean... didnt PE's get the SA lowered to 90 dex?
did it overpower them?
I thought so.
no PE bashing, just an honest comparison
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Rifles that weren't/aren't underpowered;
RoG.
PE.
End of list o_O
edit for below;
Good.
Love that QD :p
So basically First Love needs a decent boost if its gonna still have the high rate of missing.
Disruptor needs a 'slight' boost
And Healing Light well its seriously underpowered for its TL and compared to the BoH. (and no im not saying BoH is overpowered i actually think its balanced now!)
Originally posted by John.nl
Stigmata, I think you owe me an apology.
in order to exceed that number you would have to take more items from an external source, so as you said you already had them on you.
was this the case or did you try to pickup even more items.
i stand by original comments, if you dont like it then so be it.
there is an ignore feature.....use it
Originally posted by jernau
Am I missing something?
Yes. Drugs. ;)
Originally posted by Scikar
@Jernau: It's called Beast. ;)
That only allows the removal of one gimplant. It still sucks and now your a drug-gimp.
I've tried these setups a dozen different ways - they are all shitty.
Originally posted by jernau
That only allows the removal of one gimplant. It still sucks and now your a drug-gimp.
I've tried these setups a dozen different ways - they are all shitty.
Yeah, it's a basic problem with spies. You either gimp yourself to use Inq with drugs, and get average stats on FL, you gimp your offense and use RoG by not drugging to Inq, or you cap FL and Disruptor, and as a result get complete wasted by fire.
Moving Inq and Duranit down so spies can use them (they were supposed to be able to use Inq anyway, and Duranit was created especially for them, just KK decided to take all their strength away immediately afterwards) is what spies really need. That lets them get better stats on their rifles, and when you see spies with viable defence and still good stats on FL people will realise they're not really underpowered, just spies are forced to be gimps.
Dribble Joy
04-02-04, 19:56
Originally posted by Scikar
Moving Inq and Duranit down so spies can use them (they were supposed to be able to use Inq anyway, and Duranit was created especially for them, just KK decided to take all their strength away immediately afterwards) is what spies really need.
That was before the radsuit/pa though.
Why are people happy about more rares being rendered useless? I mean I'm no fan of shock, but Holy Paralysis was ppu's first rare. It hasn't been useful for months now, and it's even worse now. High rof, High Casting Cost, little shock, little damage. Useless items should not exist, especialy rares since they pollute the rare pool. If they are going to be adjusted in the future to be viable, then you can add them back in. Until then they have no reason to exist.
Even more to the point, it really needs to be made clear what the purpose of shock is. Is it a ppu's limited offense for killin rats? Is it a defense spell to keep nasty tanks away? Is it an offensive spell to weaken opponents so team can kill easier? Is it supposed to slow down aiming? Is it supposed to slow down movement? Is it supposed to just look pretty gathering dust in your cab?
It's taken on each of these roles, but never stayed true to one. The only thing you could say is that it slows down the target, but now it doesnt even do that. I think the role needs to be decided on once and for all. Once you have the purpose, you can tailor parashock to fufill it. If it's supposed to be defensive, then it should only be used defensively. If it is supposed to be offensive, then it should only be used offensively. Etc...
For example if it is defensive, then parashock should be a modified barrel which you can drop behind you while running away. If it is supposed to be a ppu's damage dealer, then it should have no shock effect. The rof/casting cost/range/shocking power should all be adjusted to fufill the purpose. Parashock was being tailored as an offensive spell in combat, high rof, high casting cost, and low range. That would make a fine offensive spell, except it didnt have low range and the shocking power was through the roof. In response the shocking power and range were reduced by a lot. What's the purpose now?
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
That was before the radsuit/pa though.
Of course it was before. If spies had Inq/Duranit 1 and no PA/radsuit they'd be even more screwed than they are now. They need both to compete.
Originally posted by Dribble Joy
That was before the radsuit/pa though.
..and the monk PA, PE PA, changes to Tank PA, duranium boots, titan armour dropping, monk-o-cron, anti-xxx spells for APUs and catharsis/anit-xxx for PPUs.
I'm not 100% sure but it might even have been before combat boosters and/or resist belts.
Everyone has more and better defenses now than they did then. Spies still need a little more to be balanced. Either that or a substantial damage boost but I can just imagine the wailing and bitching if that happened regardless of whether it was "right" or "wrong".
shodanjr_gr
04-02-04, 23:25
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah, it's a basic problem with spies. You either gimp yourself to use Inq with drugs, and get average stats on FL, you gimp your offense and use RoG by not drugging to Inq, or you cap FL and Disruptor, and as a result get complete wasted by fire.
Moving Inq and Duranit down so spies can use them (they were supposed to be able to use Inq anyway, and Duranit was created especially for them, just KK decided to take all their strength away immediately afterwards) is what spies really need. That lets them get better stats on their rifles, and when you see spies with viable defence and still good stats on FL people will realise they're not really underpowered, just spies are forced to be gimps.
The problem is that if u do what you say, you will give spies near close to PE defence. They will get inq/duranit/xray armor. They will be like 1 drug away from shelter. They will get a disruptor. They will get a stealth 2/3/obliterator. Almost all of this possible at the same time. That sounds a bit overpowered to meh....
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
The problem is that if u do what you say, you will give spies near close to PE defence. They will get inq/duranit/xray armor. They will be like 1 drug away from shelter. They will get a disruptor. They will get a stealth 2/3/obliterator. Almost all of this possible at the same time. That sounds a bit overpowered to meh....
They wouldn't have defence any different to they do now. The difference is they would be able to use their weaponry as effectively as it was intended. Spies will never match PEs for defence, because they can't get such high damage % on shelter. Also their lower CON means they have less HP.
My friends and I formed a clan in PP faction just before the patch...
Prepatch to switch to PP, you talked to Human Resources Directors (the 3 standing together upstairs in center of HQ), but since the patch I am unable to find a PP representative who will let me switch to the faction. Someone mentioned checking out Con Center, which I did, but no one there will give the option to switch either... (at least as far as I can tell)
Has anyone else run into this, or successfully switched who can clue the rest of us as to how it can be undertaken at this time?
Any help is appreciated.
This was posted here in case it's an oversight as part of the new patch... pardon me if it's in the wrong place.
Originally posted by Baraxil
My friends and I formed a clan in PP faction just before the patch...
Prepatch to switch to PP, you talked to Human Resources Directors (the 3 standing together upstairs in center of HQ), but since the patch I am unable to find a PP representative who will let me switch to the faction. Someone mentioned checking out Con Center, which I did, but no one there will give the option to switch either... (at least as far as I can tell)
Has anyone else run into this, or successfully switched who can clue the rest of us as to how it can be undertaken at this time?
Any help is appreciated.
This was posted here in case it's an oversight as part of the new patch... pardon me if it's in the wrong place.
I've heard some people have the same problem with BD. It worked fine for others though.
I assume relogging didn't help?
I'd send an in-game ticket if I were you.
jj dynomite
08-02-04, 19:50
HEY THANATOS
Did you guy fix, or are you planning on fixing the grav lifts in TH SEC 1??
You can't enter from the bottom (There's one of those pretty invisible walls blocking it)
shodanjr_gr
08-02-04, 22:59
Originally posted by Scikar
They wouldn't have defence any different to they do now. The difference is they would be able to use their weaponry as effectively as it was intended. Spies will never match PEs for defence, because they can't get such high damage % on shelter. Also their lower CON means they have less HP.
Im sorry but the idea of a disruptor using spy who wears inq and duranit armor and has 100+ xray resists (with the possibility of drugging for shelter) scares the SHIT out of me. They would get near PE defence, far greater from PE offence, and stealth....
PE's still would have better defence due high hp, higher resists and better shelter. Think that past a certain point in resists the advantages are minimal, having such insane x-ray resist wont really help spies to get better defence... just the fact of having decent balanced fire resists and HP thanks to inq1 armors and the points that it frees.
PE's still can have higher resists, higher hp and stealth, but less offence... to me sounds balanced.
QuantumDelta
09-02-04, 05:22
From one of my tests it's just about possible to get the spy up to pe level defence, with decent runspeed.
You get more offence, the only difference is less HLT...
I don't see too much of a problem with it, unless they seriously boost Dis/FL/Slasher
shodanjr_gr
09-02-04, 15:20
Originally posted by Sleawer
PE's still would have better defence due high hp, higher resists and better shelter. Think that past a certain point in resists the advantages are minimal, having such insane x-ray resist wont really help spies to get better defence... just the fact of having decent balanced fire resists and HP thanks to inq1 armors and the points that it frees.
PE's still can have higher resists, higher hp and stealth, but less offence... to me sounds balanced.
Yes but not THAT higer resists/hp/etc.
A spy that uses a disruptor gets at least a 20 second stealth. A disruptor has an insane RoF and does good damage. Heck there are already spies out there that outperform a lot of PEs.
It just doesnt seem right to me.
And why is not right that spies outperform PE's in dex fields?
What I find absurd is that spies to get the little advantage of range and some higher TL weapons that often, very often, are less useful than their lower TL counterparts, have to gimp themselves by drugging, implant-donning to have the same subskills than PE's, or having a hole in their resists. This to get less resists and less health than a PE.
The current world of Neocron is one where everyone more or less have their resists covered, spies are the only ones sub-par on this matter unless they drug. And stealth is not spy-only, therefore its classification here is out of place.
If inq/dur1 armors are dropped in req's to allow spies their use you wont see anything different than now. It will only affect the gameplay of the spy class, but not its balance.
If you really see it so overpowered then state your reasons, numbers, tests, damages, protection percents... dont sit there saying no. You can compare each class with solid numbers always, you just have to want.
Originally posted by shodanjr_gr
Yes but not THAT higer resists/hp/etc.
A spy that uses a disruptor gets at least a 20 second stealth. A disruptor has an insane RoF and does good damage. Heck there are already spies out there that outperform a lot of PEs.
It just doesnt seem right to me.
So they're not allowed to have as good defence as PEs, but they're also not allowed to have as good offense as tanks? I think that's just a tad unfair. Ideally things should be balanced, but if anything, spies should be more poweful than PEs. Currently it's the other way around.
Unfortunatly for spies the best pvp gun is probably RoG which a pe can easily cap damage and get a good freq on it.
Healing Light still needs some loving but its better than it was at least.
First Love needs a serious damage increase or fix to its insane failure to hit the target when fully locked on and a boost to damage.
Disruptor really needs to be more powerful than it currently is. Its a TL115 weapon (Doombeamer is another high TL weapon with poor damage output) and its damage is simply poor when compared to a CS a TL105 weapon. Yes a i know cannon's should technically do more damage but the CS does alot more damage than a Disruptor does atm. :wtf:
Originally posted by Netphreak
Unfortunatly for spies the best pvp gun is probably RoG which a pe can easily cap damage and get a good freq on it.
Healing Light still needs some loving but its better than it was at least.
First Love needs a serious damage increase or fix to its insane failure to hit the target when fully locked on and a boost to damage.
Disruptor really needs to be more powerful than it currently is. Its a TL115 weapon (Doombeamer is another high TL weapon with poor damage output) and its damage is simply poor when compared to a CS a TL105 weapon. Yes a i know cannon's should technically do more damage but the CS does alot more damage than a Disruptor does atm. :wtf:
Well, it does now. Before the patch, FL did only marginally less damage than CS did. I have a question about FL though, can someone tell me what recoil they get on it?
I cant tell you the exact number as I'm not in-game atm, it should be aprox the same as Pain Easer (maybe more). Third view fixes it as always...
FL and PE need serious aiming help... FL specially.
I'd like the number so I can compare it to my CS. I'm figuring maybe strength affects recoil, so possibly FL may have higher recoil for a spy than CS does to a tank. Otherwise, FL should have better aiming since it has longer range.
It seems capped at 14 on my spy. But FL aiming issue is not related to recoil or range imo; I just can be at 1/4 of the range allowed for the weapon and still 1, 2 or even sometimes 3 blobs completely miss the target.
It is as accurate as any plasma burst weapon, awful, but c'mon if we dont get AoE due accuracy and range in our rifles why having the same rule than cannons for FL?
Not sure about the EPR and lower plasma rifles, should have to test the weapon... I used to lvl up with fusion rifles for range and raygun weapons for close, just used FL to lvl int because for everything else is awful.
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